Naim kit- Need new Speakers
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 157 Registered: Nov-07 | Current gear Naim Nait 5i-2 & CD5i-2 pushing JM Labs Focal 907 Be SE with Naca cables. My music taste is very diverse and I'm now looking to find a speaker that presents a more synergistic match to my Naim gear. I'm looking to further improve the detail, clarity and sooundstage from the current speakers. If I sell my Focals, I would be looking at a budget of $2K. Ok everyone the floor is open. Help me spend some money and get some new speakers to match my Naim gear. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7253 Registered: Feb-05 | Rega R7's or Naim Ariva...used you should be able to come close. | |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 159 Registered: Nov-07 | Finding a used pair of Arivas may be tough. I know who I can turn to. Hey Patrick are you ready to sell yours yet? LOL. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7255 Registered: Feb-05 | Talk to your local Rega dealer about a pair of R7's, after all that is the sound you fell in love with. | |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 160 Registered: Nov-07 | I actullay spoke to my dealer yesterday afternoon. He has the R7's I demoed still there and discounted even. My main issue is present room (size) constraints. Not much real estate left for larger speakers, but I wil be talking to the dealer today to set up a home demo hopefully. |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 161 Registered: Nov-07 | Art, I forgot to say thanks again. Stu, Where are those suggestions you mentioned? |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3066 Registered: Sep-04 | If real estate is an issue and you'd prefer to place speakers near the wall, Naim's speakers are ideal since they rely on the rear wall for bass reinforcement. The models to look for would be 2nd hand Intro, Intro II (better, distinguished from original by external crossover at back a la Credo), Credo (very good indeed), Ariva (different from the rest and probably not quite as good in many respects). The Intro and Credo models are multi-box solutions. The Credo is the safer bet - the Intro was a little too exuberant for some tastes. 2nd hand Intros and Credos should be well within your price range. I also like Naim n-SATS a lot but many people complain about lack of bass. I don't see it myself but then I like things a little hotter than many. Totem Arros - popular choice with your electronics! Totem Rainmakers - hmmm, possibilities, but need to exercise carewith that volume control I think. |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 163 Registered: Nov-07 | Frank, Thanks for the input. The only problem with the R7 is size in my small room. I'm talking to my dealer about the R7, R5, N-sat and possible subs. I may even get in to the store after work to get another listen to the R7/R5. Any other brands come to mind? |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 164 Registered: Nov-07 | I guess we were typing at the same time. My dealer loves the n-SATS, but feels a sub would almost be necessary for the vairous music I like. |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 165 Registered: Nov-07 | One last thing, would the B&W 683/CM7 be a good pairing with Naim? When I first demoed speakers, both pair impressed me quite a bit, but of coutrse they were hooked up to different electronics. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2875 Registered: May-05 | The R7s are a great speaker that'll synergize very well. Keep in mind the side firing woofers don't work well in all rooms and may need some breathing room. If you're getting a home demo you'll be able to experiment with the woofers facing in and out, and so on. I'm assuming you read my Yara review. From what I read in your other posts, it sounds like the Yara monitor may fit very well with what you're trying to accomplish. While I haven't heard it with your system, I'd be willing to bet that it'll have excellent synergy with it. The Yara Evolution Bookshelf (which is what I have) is very slowly being phased out and replaced with the Yara II Compact. Some dealers aren't even aware of this, due to the horrible distributer. If you can track down a pair of the Evolution Bookshelves, you might be able to get a sweet deal. I haven't heard the new ones. They use a different woofer and have a smaller cabinet. I run my Yaras without a sub. No problems at all in the bass department. Not sure about the new ones. Another speaker I really like is the Dynaudio Focus 110. If not for the Yaras, I would have bought them. I heard it with your integrated and CD player. Excellent all around, and works well in most rooms. I didn't think they needed a sub. I didn't hear the Focus 140, but according to everyone they're better in every way. They were out of my price range and my dealer didn't have a pair on the floor. PMC is another great company. The DB1+ was a little too thin sounding for my ears. The soundstage was enormous and deep, but they just seemed a little thin for some reason I can't explain. Excellent PRaT. I think they need a subwoofer. The TB2+ was above my price range and not in stock, so I didn't hear them. The TB2+ is reportedly better all around and is much fuller sounding then the DB1+. Both have been updated and are now DB1i and TB2i and carry a substantial price increase. Everything I've heard about them has been very positive and everyone said they're worth every penny of the price increase. If that's the case, the DB1i may very well be a good option. Another speaker I suggest looking into is the Linn Katan. It's a very good speaker that works very well with your gear. According to my dealer about half of his 2 channel customers buy a sub for it. I don't think it's absolutely crucial, but had I bought them, I'd probably add a sub at some point. When I auditioned them they got lost in the mix rather quickly. They didn't do anything wrong, but they didn't have any qualities that stood out either. I auditioned them with N-Sats, Dyn Focus 110, and ATC SCM7. Depending on your room size and how loud you like your music, the ATC SCM7 may be another option. They need some power to get going and some SPLs to open up, but when they do they sound phenomenal. I've got a small room and they need to be louder than I'm comfortable with. Not that it needs to be very loud, but it needs to be louder than what I normally listen at, and I have a landlord and wife to answer to. Had they not had these issues, I'd have bought them in a heartbeat. They were easily the best speaker I heard when given the proper conditions. The next model up (SCM12?) reportedly is easier to drive and doesn't need to be played as loud. They were out of my price range. My dealer isn't going to re-stock the SCM7 because of their poor sales due to their limitations. Another fantastic speaker is the Totem Arro. Excellent match with the Nait. Some prefer the Rainmaker, but I prefer the Arro for unexplainable reasons. Technically they're a floorstander, but in reality they're just a tall monitor. Either one may or may not need a sub, depending on your preferences. My Totem dealer said about half of his 2 channel customers use a sub with them. In the right room, I don't think they need one. Everyone's idea of good bass is different though. Some other popular pairings are Spendor, Harbeth, and Neat. I haven't heard them, so I have no insight. What else... I'm pretty sure everything I listed can be had within your price range. Most are well under it. Your current speakers are fantastic speakers. Just about everyone would say they're 'better' than pretty much everything I've listed. I won't argue that. But they're not a good match with your gear, and therefore won't sound as good as the ones I listed IMO. You're basically mixing a 'hifi' speaker with 'anti-hifi' electronics. Its like oil and water IMO. Keep in mind that monitors on stands won't take up much less space than smaller towers. The R7 isn't much bigger than my Yaras on stands, if it's bigger at all. The key thing is driver size and placement. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2876 Registered: May-05 | A couple of posts were added while I was typing... I wouldn't run the N-Sats without a sub. Its very hard to find one that'll keep up with them too. Naim's N-Sub is the perfect match, at a little over $3k  I think the B&Ws will have the same undesirable attributes as your current focals. I haven't heard the Naim speakers Frank mentions, but they'd obviously work well with your electronics. Room interaction is another thing. Typically, Naim speakers work very well in just about any room. |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 166 Registered: Nov-07 | Thanks Stu for the detailed write up. I was afraid that my JM Labs while they are great, just are not a great match with Naim. I love the looks of the Spendors & Neats, Neats but the problem is finding a local dealer. Some of the models you mentioned may be very hard to get a listen to around here. I will let you guys know how things shape up as I start listening to what I can find. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2877 Registered: May-05 | Where in PA are you? I thought you may have said Philly. If so, and you're willing to drive to NYC, they can all be heard. If you're in Philly and willing to make the trek, let me know. I'll let you know who has what. | |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 167 Registered: Nov-07 | Stu, I grew up in the Bronx and still have family there. I would definitely be interested in the Yara, Dynaudio, Spendor and Neat. My dealer carries the Totem and Rega. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2878 Registered: May-05 | Lyric Hifi in Manhattan has the Yaras. PMCs are at Cosmophonic, about 3 blocks from Lyric. Not sure what they currently have on the floor; they may or may not have gotten the new PMCs. There's a Naim, Rega, Linn, Dynaudio, and ATC dealer in Mt. Kisco - Accent on Music. Call them for an appointment. Not sure about Spendor and Neat. The Bronx is an interesting place. I work at the college across the street from the Botanical Garden. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2879 Registered: May-05 | Also, Accent on Music should have some second hand Naim speakers. Call them up and see what they've got - 914-242-0747. If you're not familiar with Mt Kisco, its in Westchester, about 30-45 minutes up the Saw Mill from the Yonkers/Bronx border. Last time I was there they had a pair of demo Arivas and a new pair. They've had a ton of phone inquiries, but will only sell them to someone who comes in and sees/hears them. Not that there's anything wrong with them. They're by far my favorite store. Great people to deal with, very down to earth and knowledgeble. I can't say enough good things about them. Basically the opposite of the snobby Manhattan hifi dealers. |
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Silver Member Username: PcstocktonPost Number: 122 Registered: Apr-08 | Ariva. They were designed and voiced with your EXACT kit. Awesome performance. Simply mind blowing. FAST!!!!!!!! You can source for under $1600 usually. And most often barely used dealer demos. Most un-Naim of all Naim speakers. Which is a good thing in my experience. N-Sats? Ariva monitor style. Highly regarded. Same drivers and tweeter actually. |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 168 Registered: Nov-07 | Thanks Stu. I just spoke to the folks as at Accent on Audio. I'm planning a visit probably in two weeks after I do some listening down here in my neck of the woods. |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 169 Registered: Nov-07 | Patrick Didn't you say you wer ready to upgarde and would sell me your Arivas.  LOL!! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7256 Registered: Feb-05 | Stu, with the Rega speakers 99% of the time woofers out is best, in fact I would say if woofers in is best you have the wrong speaker for the space. The Spendor S5e or S6e have been popular with Naim owners and I like thyem but they do lack the vitality IMO that the Rega's have. Actually the R3 may be a better choice within a small space. Smaller side firing drivers. I agree with Stu about the B&W's. |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 170 Registered: Nov-07 | Well I just finished a 20 min conversation with my dealer here in Phila. His sentiments mirror excatly what you guys are suggesting. Demo of the Rega R7 & R5 will be this weekend. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10511 Registered: Dec-04 | Good for you Ed. Will the shop have Naim power on hand? Gotta hear the Ariva's man. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7258 Registered: Feb-05 | As much as I love the R5 the Ariva is better...the R7 in my opinion is every bit as good as the Ariva. | |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7259 Registered: Feb-05 | Oh and the Rega's like to be placed near the rear wall. | |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 171 Registered: Nov-07 | My dealer is also trying to locate a pair of Arivas as well. | |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2881 Registered: May-05 | "Stu, with the Rega speakers 99% of the time woofers out is best, in fact I would say if woofers in is best you have the wrong speaker for the space." My exact thoughts, Art. Ed, Does Accent still have the Arivas? Any other used Naim speakers? I haven't been there in a few months. Their used stuff is very well maintained. The majority of their customers are Naim fanatics who move up and sometimes down the Naim ladder. You obviously should support your local guy, but keep in mind that Accent has your exact gear and just about everything else you're interested in. There's a lot to be learned from hearing gear side by side. Again, if your local guy has what you're interested in, then by all means go with them. |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 172 Registered: Nov-07 | Nuck, The shop in question is where I bought my kit. He has several Naim pieses in stock. We just need to move some speakers around. John carries Naim, Rega, Totem, JM Labs and a couple others. I'm afraid the Linns may be way out of my reach. Stu, I can't remember if they have a pair of Arivas or not. I will have to speak to them again. I owe it to myself to at least hear them with my kit if I can find a pair. If not, the Rega R7/R5 look like strong contenders. Once I listen again, I will know. I will certainly deal with John at my shop unless I find a speaker he can not get for me. |
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Silver Member Username: PcstocktonPost Number: 128 Registered: Apr-08 | Ed, Get your hands off my Arivas. They are going nowhere for years to come.  Mt Kisco huh? I was born there!!! In fact, the last time i was back east, I got a ride to Mt. Kisco (from Boston) then took the train into NYC, in order to keep my buddy from having to go into the city. I missed the train twice... i think it actually only slows down in Mt Kisco.... If I had only known there was a Naim dealer there!!!!! Not a town I would imagine to have a high-end hifi store. But it sure does! Arivas. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2894 Registered: May-05 | Mt Kisco is a great town. Nice old shops along Main St, where Accent on Music is. There's another great hifi shop across the street from the train station, but its inside a building with no street visibility - Reference Cinema & Sound. That shop has more high end gear in one place than anywhere else I've seen. When I was there, their front room looked like a storage room - stacks of boxes from floor to ceiling. Boxes with names like Halcro, Edge, Wilson, Conrad Johnson, and Verity were everywhere. One of the most humble shop owners I've ever come across. He smiled when I told him I can't afford anything in his shop and said "Neither can I." He carries far more than his horrible website lists, and wants to be able to get his customers any equipment they want. His clients are the Manhattan guys who are sick of the snobby Manhattan dealers. When I walked into his shop, he was setting up a set of Halcro monoblocks (about $100K) to some Verity speakers (about $75k) for a demo. He let me play with that system until the customer showed up. He also let me listen to an illusive Densen system. He's the only one in the country with it. Sorry for the diversion... |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 173 Registered: Nov-07 | Stu & Patrick The diversions are always welcomed. How else do you guys expect me to learn as much as I can? |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 174 Registered: Nov-07 | Gents, I have another idea. My goal is to end up with a CD5X & FC2X into my Niat 5i.2. Would it be advisable to purchase a used pair of Totem Rainmakers for around $600. tkae the extra from my Focals and put toward my gear. Once my gear is upgraded I can then fully concentrate on finding speakers that truly matches with my kit. Let me know if my thinking is correct in terms of building a properly synergized system. Thanks Ed |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7271 Registered: Feb-05 | Perhaps the Rainmakers could hold ya over but only you can answer that Ed. It's not a bad idea as long as you understand that the Rainmakers aren't the be all end all. | |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 175 Registered: Nov-07 | Completely understood Art. | |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2896 Registered: May-05 | I love the 5x. The FC2x makes it far better and is worth every penny of the cost if you can afford it. Naim is one of the hardest systems to get properly synergized if you're mixing in different brands IMO. If you don't have it, its very underwhelming. When you've got it, its magic. I'm not as familiar with the Rainmakers as I am with the Arros. If you're considering Totems, the Arro is a must audition IMO. Its not much more money either - used Arros typically get listed for about $750. Keep in mind it'll cost more to ship though. If you like the Rainmakers, its not a bad idea at all. But then again, you've got all Naim electronics. The CD5x will be a big improvement, but it won't change anything from a synergy standpoint. You'll be back to where you are now. Also keep in mind that you're probably going to lose money on your Focals, and you'll most likely lose some money on a set of Rainmakers if you're not going to keep them. Not to sound the wrong way, but I would want to keep losing money. In the end, the money lost could have been put to better use. I say buy speakers now and move forward. When you get the right speakers, you'll hopefully be able to sit back and enjoy the music for a while. Who knows, maybe you'll loose the urge to upgrade to a CD5x. You've got what sounds like a great dealer who's trying to help you out. Listen to what he's got. I think you said he's got Naim, Rega, and Totem. If he's also got your electronics, there won't be any surprises in the final outcome of the system. I just remembered there's an Audio Physic dealer in Summit NJ if that's close to you - Audio Nexus http://www.audionexus.com/ |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2897 Registered: May-05 | Sorry, a sentence should have said "I WOULDN'T want to keep losing money." | |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2898 Registered: May-05 | Also, I don't know if I've voiced this opinion or not, but... The Ariva should be the answer to your dilema. They'd be my top priority, and everything else would be a back-up plan if I were in your shoes. Now only if they were readily available. |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 176 Registered: Nov-07 | Stu, I know exactly what you meant and mean. On the sale of my Focals I almost broke even (lost $50). I know, I know I got very lucky. Another thought was that if I enjoy the Rainmaker/Arro, I could use them in my bedroom. Probably not smart because I will spend more money on a second system. LOL. My order of speaker choice 1.Ariva 2.Rega R7/R5/R3 3.Totem Rainmaker/Arro 4.PMC, Spendor, everything else. I will check Audio Nexus since I work in south jersey. Satruday morning at my dealer should be interesting. |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 177 Registered: Nov-07 | Thanks for all of the help so far everyone. | |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7273 Registered: Feb-05 | I keep going back to the simple statement made early on by Ed. You fell in love with the sound of the system with R7's...hmmm. | |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 178 Registered: Nov-07 | I'll be there Saturday to confirm that it was the R7/Cd5i.2/Nait 5i.2 kit that created the magic. I would love to find some Arivas, but we all know the story on that. Patrick is keeping his.  |
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Silver Member Username: PcstocktonPost Number: 132 Registered: Apr-08 | The ONLY concern I have for the 5i/Rainmaker combo would be the power issue. Nearly ALL totems are very power hungry/demanding. I wouldn't buy Totems without a home demo on your kit, in your room, with your ears. Take the above advice though... you owe it to yourself to at least hear the Ariva. i think you will be blown away. I still cannot believe you can source these for under $1500. |
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Silver Member Username: PcstocktonPost Number: 133 Registered: Apr-08 | Ed, Arivas show up on Audiogon from time to time. keep your eyes peeled. But get your eyes off of mine.  |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7281 Registered: Feb-05 | If my Creek 4330 can drive the Rainmakers then I have no doubt about the Naim...however I think other news may be forthcoming...stay tuned! | |
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Silver Member Username: PcstocktonPost Number: 136 Registered: Apr-08 | Art, I am sure the 5i can drive them... it is a question of how well? Or will the 5i get everything the RMs have to offer? You would know best though, seeing you own a pair, as well as know Naim farily well. |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 179 Registered: Nov-07 | Patrick, Is that the Cherry finish on your pair? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7283 Registered: Feb-05 | That is a good question Patrick. I'm pretty sure that I'm not getting all that I can get from the Rainmakers...though they sound very good in my system. I'm guessing that the Nait would extract even more...however you never know. The Creek 4330 is a very special little amp. | |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 180 Registered: Nov-07 |  Thanks to Stu, it's now official. With his help I have found a Brand  Unopened Box pair of NAIM ARIVAS in cherry. I'm set to take possession this coming Thursday. I will demo the Rega, Linn, Totem, & Naim. But it is a moot point, because the Arivas got my name (pun intended) all over them. Thanks agian to all the fine individuals on this fourm who offered help and advice. Regards Ed |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10526 Registered: Dec-04 | Attaboy, Ed! Now you will now get the whole naim presentation to enjoy your music! Good deal? |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 181 Registered: Nov-07 | Yes Nuck, I certainly think so. I was able to sell my Focals for only $50 lesss than what I paid. Since it appears that the average price for a used/demo pair of Arivas is $1600, I'm only paying a little more for a brand new pair. Great deal now that I really think about it. I can't wait......... |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 182 Registered: Nov-07 | Stu, You are da man! |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 183 Registered: Nov-07 | Art, Stu, Frank, Nuck, Patrick I confirmed it today, the R7 was the speaker hooked up to my Naim kit back in February. I listened again this morning armed with Nnenna Freelon Mary J. Blige Diana Krall KEM Jay-Z Maceo Parker Sarah Vaughn The only problematic CD was Mary J. Blige. I assume the bass is overdone on the enitre soundtrack. It left me feeling the bass was mucked up or bloated. Hard to describ, but it did not sound natural. The Rega R7 is simply fantastic with a my Naim kit with the assortment of music I took in to listen. My dealer also states that since Naim is known for electronics, their speakers are ok and on the end of a Naim kit almost anything would sound good. He feels in my situation and what I'm describing that the R7 should be a great choice and fairly easy to place. Are the Arivas best close to the wall and not out a few feet? Not that I'm second guessing you guys, but it's nice to know you have the pulse of music and even some dealers. Next step is to head to NY this Thursday and demo the Arivas vs the R5. Although I prefer the sound of the R7 to the R5 in my dealers room. Stay tuned for a decision. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7289 Registered: Feb-05 | Let's hope Ariva beats the R5. The Ariva was originally a $2800 speaker and the R5 a $1200 speaker...though I think it's up to $1400 now. The Ariva was designed to be close to the back wall...then again so were the Rega floorstanders. |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 184 Registered: Nov-07 | That's good to hear Art. The R5 is $1400. Well today the R7 sounded better than the R5. I hope the Ariva sounds better than the R7 and I need to physically see them. The R7 while not as pretty as my JM's, are attractive in a different way. Yes I believe the WAF is high. After listening/seeing again, they are not as large as I thought I remembered. They will work in my room which is very similar to my dealers room, me thinks. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7291 Registered: Feb-05 | Once again considering the price of the R7 is nearly double that of teh R5...I would hope that it was better (actually I know it is having heard it). How bad was the R5 compared to the R7 in your opinion? | |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 185 Registered: Nov-07 | I wouldn't say it is bad. To me it lacked a the presence or weight I'm looking for. Now that could be the benefit of the transmission line, I'm not sure. The sound if livable, but I know I would be searching for something else in a few months with my kit. The same thing with the R3. Didn't listen to the R5 or R3 for any real length of time. For me it's R7, Ariva or else...... |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10530 Registered: Dec-04 | Wait for the Ariva, Ed. The synergy will blow you away... Just stuff em up against the wall, away from a corner and let er rip...cept'n the 3 month run-in, hehehe. |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 186 Registered: Nov-07 | Do they really take 3 mos to run-in? So if I'm luck by October/November I should be in audio heaven again? Guess this purchase qualifies as my early birthday gift.... Along with the new computer and camera equipment. Ok enough early celebrating on my part. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2901 Registered: May-05 | The Ariva is designed to be placed very close, if not against the back wall. Very little if any toe-in. The Ariva looks like a big speaker in pictures, but its not IMO. Its not as visually imposing as it seems. Actually, the first time I saw them I was surprised by how small they were compared to what I thought they'd be. They measure 34.6" x 9" x 12.2" The dealer that Ed is going to visit usually goes to the customer's house and sets everything up for him/her. Ed doesn't live in the area, so this isn't going to happen. I'm sure that they'll tell him everything he needs to know, and will talk him through things over the phone if need be. The Ariva sounds better to my ears than the R7. But its also system dependent. In an all Rega kit, the R7s are better; in an all Naim kit, the Arivas. I've heard both complete systems. Both speakers sound very good in the other system as well. Luckily, Ed will hear them both side by side with the same gear he owns. Hopefully I'll be able to meet up with him either at the dealer or sime time before or after. I'll do my best to keep my mouth shut and not sway any opinions |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2902 Registered: May-05 | One other thing - Bring your NACA5 so they can terminate the ends with Naim plugs. I'm assuming one end is Naim terminated, and the other isn't due to the Focals. |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 187 Registered: Nov-07 | My NACA5 is terminated with Naim plugs on both ends. One for the amp side and the other for speakers. I'm at least good on that part. | |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10533 Registered: Dec-04 | So long as the length of the cabling is standard, then the things should be fine. | |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 189 Registered: Nov-07 | 72 hours and counting. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10542 Registered: Dec-04 | I feel a fever coming on for you Ed. Sick day! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7303 Registered: Feb-05 | Dagnabbit now you're gettin' me excited!! | |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 190 Registered: Nov-07 | Yes, yes, I can get sick tonight. Cough cough, sneeze, sneeze. But that won't make Thursday get here any faster. LOL. You guys are the best. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10544 Registered: Dec-04 | 3 more sleeps! | |
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Silver Member Username: PcstocktonPost Number: 149 Registered: Apr-08 |  Dream a little dream..... |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 193 Registered: Nov-07 | Very pretty indeed. Now stop teasing..... |
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Silver Member Username: PcstocktonPost Number: 155 Registered: Apr-08 | Your's will most likely be much lighter... since they have never seen the light of day. If so, they will be the color of where the grille frame is on my speaker. I have three colors. Although they are very subtle, one where there is no grille, one where there is only grille fabric, and one where the grille frame is (lightest). Leaving the grilles off for the last month or so has started to even them out. It happens quickly. But most of my listening is with the grilles on. I have to take them off at night or my cays will surely destroy them. Though they've never touched my other speakers in the past, the grilles going so low, and the angled front, too closely resemble a scratching post. I'd rather not tempt fate... |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3077 Registered: Sep-04 | Patrick, Can't say I blame you! And isn't that cherry veneer spectacularly gorgeous. There's no doubting the quality of the Naim veneers. All Naim speakers, irrespective of cabinet maker, have truly lovely veneers. The manufacturing by Castle in your case is just the cherry on top. Sad to have seen Castle go... |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 194 Registered: Nov-07 | Just one more night. |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 195 Registered: Nov-07 | Now I'm even thinking of changing my aduio rack to a cherry colored rack to match the speakers. | |
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Silver Member Username: PcstocktonPost Number: 158 Registered: Apr-08 | do it! A cherry Fraim with black supports will look fantastic and more importantly sound wonderful Im guessing. | |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7313 Registered: Feb-05 | The Fraim is a beautiful rack....very, very expensive. | |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 196 Registered: Nov-07 | Yes it probably would, but it's still a little too rich for my blood. I'm thinking something by BDI, Sanus or something along those lines. |
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Silver Member Username: PcstocktonPost Number: 159 Registered: Apr-08 | isoblue??? that is next on my rack list. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7314 Registered: Feb-05 | The Lovan Soveriegn is often called the poor man's Naim Fraim...you may want to look into it. | |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3081 Registered: Sep-04 | I've heard many bad things from American contributors about the Lovan. The isoblue is difficult to get a hold of but is truly a poor man's Fraim. Loosely coupled design which wobbles, but very good indeed. For the price of one Fraim base, you could have a 4-shelf rack. The uprights are solid ash. The shelves are MDF with a veneer stained to your choice of colour. They look good if you like the design. Of course, if you can't get a hold of isoblue you have to choose something else. From experience, try to stay clear of welded steel rigs which have gone out of fashion. Apart from Mana, most welded steel/glass solutions seemed to ring and introduce brightness to the system. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7324 Registered: Feb-05 | I own the Lovan...it's not as good as my customized Premier stand but it's pretty good. One good report from an American. May not be up to the standards of the rich and famous but not bad for what I paid. |
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Silver Member Username: PcstocktonPost Number: 160 Registered: Apr-08 | Frank, Just curious how Mana's metal and glass is different from others... A good friend just picked up a TT shelf by Mana. |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 197 Registered: Nov-07 | Well I made it to Accent on Music in Mt. Kisko this morning to listen to the Arivas. I spent about 4hrs in the shop. We listened to 1. CD5i.2/Nait 5i.2 - Impression WOW 2. SuperNait/CDX2 - Impression WOWER 3. SuperNait/CDS3 - Impression WOWEST The best word I could use to describe the Arvia is BALANCED. The treble, midrange and bass are in perfect harmony. Needless to say I am all Naim now, thanks to the fellows on this forum and especially Stu. Must now find Cherry rack. I'm liking the Quadraspire at the moment. More to come on the Arivas later. Ed |
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Silver Member Username: PcstocktonPost Number: 164 Registered: Apr-08 | Ed, That must have been fun. Are you getting a Supernait/Hicap now? Did either the SN or the CDX2 have a PS in any of the combinations? |
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Silver Member Username: PcstocktonPost Number: 165 Registered: Apr-08 | Oh.... and welcome to the club.  |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7325 Registered: Feb-05 | Pics when you have time please. | |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 199 Registered: Nov-07 | Patrick, We listened to all combos without PS just to get the idea of what the bare boxes are capable of. I'm very impressed with the SuperNait/CDX2. As far as cash is concerned I think this is my new dream setup. Art, I will certainly get some pics soon. I'm getting ready to make some changes. New LCD HDTV coming this weekend. Possbily new Cherry rack to match speakers. Not quite sure yet which rack I'll go with. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7328 Registered: Feb-05 | BTW Ed the Quadraspire rack is what my local Naim dealer uses for Naim gear. Actually I'd replace my Lovan in a heartbeat with one. Too bad they don't have 2 shelf racks (for less money ofcourse). |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 201 Registered: Nov-07 | I'm thiking of maybe going with one of these http://www.standsandmounts.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1691 http://www.bdiusa.com/avfurniture/deploy_9621.shtml What do you think? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7334 Registered: Feb-05 | NNNNo... You have Naim gear man...don't let it go to waste...rear wheels (dentures fall onto the floor...) You had the right idea awhile back. And no I don't have dentures...lol!!! Yet . |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 202 Registered: Nov-07 | That's too funny Art. But the salepeople at Accent feel casters/wheels on a carpeted concrete floor is not a bad idea. Which is exactly what I have. I told them I was using BDI and they said it was a pretty decent rack. Solid and very sturdy. Maybe the second one would be a better choice since it has no wheels. As far as the Quadraspire goes, I need to find out how much weight that top shelf will hold. 32" or 37" LCD coming by the end of next week. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7336 Registered: Feb-05 | Buy what works for you.... and that Naim gear... |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 203 Registered: Nov-07 | I hear ya Art. Luckily the Deploy 9621 does not have rear wheels. So your soon to be dentures will be safe. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7338 Registered: Feb-05 | LOL! Let's hope not too soon! |
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Silver Member Username: PcstocktonPost Number: 168 Registered: Apr-08 | Ed, Dont buy either of those!!! At least not without hearing them first. There are a few racks I would buy without hesitation, or demonstration, as they are staples of the Naim world. Tried and true options that you cannot go wrong with it seems. As many people have tested them out over and over ad nauseum. Isoblue Quadraspire Hutter Fraim Ikea Eina/Corras ($30 each) maybe Mana? You are building a sweet kit, and it deserves a good rack. Pick one of those that you like the look of. Perhaps get one of those for the TV. I recommend a Salamander for your AV.  If they MUST match, and or you can only have one rack. I am sure most of those can handle your LCD on top? You can easily find the weight online. The isoblue is a little wobbly so that might not be best for the LCD. My 2 cents. |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 204 Registered: Nov-07 | I've taken what you and Art have said to heart. I can only have one rack currently. Checking on the Quadraspire at the moment. I'll also look into some of the others you mention. Much appreciated. BTW what brand is that in the pic? |
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Silver Member Username: PcstocktonPost Number: 171 Registered: Apr-08 | ed, That is Salamander Archetype 3.0, with an extra shelf. The 3.0 as is, in black, is $180. Not bad. They look nice, are well built, and can obviously can have ANY shelf height you want. I found the Ikea Eina though to have better sound qualities. Perhaps it is the extra space the Ikea presents....and it was only $60!!!!!!! The Quadraspire is well respected and the y should have no problem with the weight of your TV... Although I must admit my kit sounded much better after moving it away from the TV, Cable box, Yamaha, etc.... My recommendation is to get something cheap/free for the LCD. And get a QS for your Naim kit. AS funds permit, you can get something nicer or another QS for your TV. If AT ALL possible, split things up. Get two racks. If necessary, get two Eina's and a Salmander for your AV. Then when you can, get the QS or Isoblue. And make the Einas back into bedside tables.  |
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Silver Member Username: PcstocktonPost Number: 172 Registered: Apr-08 | FYI, I personally dont like the QS, or the Hutter, but they are widely used in Naim circles. And I only dislike them from a style perspective. I am sure they both sound fabulous. I would go with Isoblue in a heartbeat. Especially when the "Special Series" is released. But that is just personal pref. Look around on the System Pics thread on the Naim site. Something will inspire you.  |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 205 Registered: Nov-07 | Funny you mentiion the personal side. I dont like the looks of the Isoblue. The Hutter is nice, but also expensive. For the time being I need to keep things together due to space contraints. Anew house can't come soon enough. I like the QS, but not totally crazy about it so it may have to do. Still searching and checking. I've been on the Naim site all day looking for inspiration. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7341 Registered: Feb-05 | "Although I must admit my kit sounded much better after moving it away from the TV, Cable box, Yamaha, etc...." Oh yeah... If you will be moving in the foreseeable future and upgrade would then be possible I would recommend something from Ikea...why not? They seem to be used and loved by Naimees all over...they also won't set you back much. |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 206 Registered: Nov-07 | Patrick, Art, I picked up two Einas to hold me over until my bank account recovers from the speakers and soon to be TV. Then I'll revisit the subject later. To make the plinth, would 1/4-20 thread standard audio spikes & cones work? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7348 Registered: Feb-05 | Sounds right to me... | |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 207 Registered: Nov-07 | I'm going to spike and make plinth out of the extra Eina top. The LCD will sit on top for now. I'm working on the speaker bases tonight. Audio/TV Rack for $91 Ikea style.
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 208 Registered: Nov-07 | Now I know I posted images here before, so I don't know what the hell went wrong. | |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 209 Registered: Nov-07 |  That's better. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7353 Registered: Feb-05 | Lookin' good... | |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 210 Registered: Nov-07 | Here are a few more. I need to find some isolation platforms for the speaker bases. I know they have their own bases but its difficult to level on my floor.   I may switch the left speaker with the kit once the TV arrives. Still playing with placement, but I had to get some music going. So far so good.  |
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Silver Member Username: PcstocktonPost Number: 173 Registered: Apr-08 | Ed, I dont want to state the obvious but... You should BY ALL MEANS use the Ariva's supplied speaker base. You probably know about the "adjustment hole" on two of the spikes. You can adjust with an allen wrench from the top. Very cool. If you are having trouble because of the carpet. You can make four small "slits" with a razor blade so they spikes will go through to the floor. I bought a digital level for about $20. works like a dream. You'll need it for the speakers and especially the Eina when you spike it. -Patrick |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3084 Registered: Sep-04 | Observations: Many people going for the cheapest option talk about the IKEA Corras as a good solution. Quadraspire is available in the UK on a per-shelf basis. You don't HAVE to buy 4-shelf combinations. The Quadrapire Reference is not for me. I find it highlights certain parts of the frequency range and not others, skewing the overall presentation. I prefer the standard Quadraspire to the Reference model therefore. I haven't heard the Sunoko-Vent model yet. The Quadraspire should be more than strong enough to cope with a 32" LCD. Each standard shelf can take 80kg in weight! I doubt an LCD will weigh more than 40kg. You can check this and all the options on their website at http://www.quadraspire.co.uk where yo can even build your own combinations with the Product Builder. If you intend to place the LCD TV on it, then you may prefer to go with an AV solution, placing two units side by side per shelf. It wouldn't be as high and would look very neat. The AV shelves are thicker and can take 100kg. For a 10% premium in price the isoblue gives you much more perormance over a Quadraspire. The Hutter is an excellent rack - the isoblue is 10%-ish cheaper and better. If I had the space, it'd be isoblue for me, but since the Hutter has a 500mm option I can make best use of space by having two 500mm Hutters side by side, so this is what I use. Hutter is beautifully made from sustainable forests in Austria. Quadraspire has the best distribution of the three brands mentioned above, and they're the largest manufacturer too in terms of sales, with Hutter next and isoblue coming in last due to lack of distribution channels. Mana Acoustics stopped trading a couple of years back. This is the only steel and glass rack that still competed with the wood/aluminium solutions out there. The Mana is in a different league to the standard Quadraspire, and in some environments will knock an isoblue off its perch. Only the Fraim still competed in my view. The Mana used high quality, thick angle steel with very high quality welding not found in most places (evidence of the owner's biking background). The glass used was a nice 10mm thick variety and each shelf had a couple of tuning strips on the underside to damp it. Each glass shelf rested on upward facing level-able threaded cones. Setup was crucial on Mana. You had to 'tune' each shelf so it rang in eactly the same way when you tapped it at each corner. The only limitations with Mana racks were that 1) aesthetics - it looked like an oil rig (especially when you started adding their platforms), 2) it didn't work in every room. Generally it was fine in most home dwellings, but occasionally it would just brighten the whole setup enormously. It did this in our shop so we could not sell it, which we really wanted to do! 3) There was definitely a 'ferrous effect'. Just having a Mana rack close to a system changed the presentation. Of course, if you liked the change, it was great, and the tuning process helped alleviate some of this - the tuning was almost unique to Mana. I hope this helps, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 214 Registered: Nov-07 | Thanks Frank. A cherry Quadraspire may be in the works when my funds recover. Of the three you mention that is the one I like the most. | |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2911 Registered: May-05 | Ed, Sorry I couldn't make it to Accent with you. Sounds like it was a great time. Those guys (and lady) are top notch. They do things the way they should be done. I've been pretty busy lately. Some side work for some extra cash and interviewing for a new job. Between the extra work and my usual stuff, I've been working 14 hours a day for the last 2 weeks straight, and will keep doing it for the next 2 weeks. The good news is I just accepted a new job today, which is a $10k pay raise and less than half the travel and responsibilities my current job has. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7359 Registered: Feb-05 | Congrats Stu...now I just need a job that pays $10K...lol! | |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 216 Registered: Nov-07 | Stu, Do I see some Naim gear in your future? Congrats on the new gig. I got speakers and you got $10K. I wouldn't mind the $10k now that I think about. I still owe you when you're ready for it. Enjoy the new job and some less stress it sounds like. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2912 Registered: May-05 | Thanks guys. Ed, No Naim in the near future. Mrs. Stu and I are saving up for a house first. After that is another story. You don't owe me anything - You enjoying your new Arivas and me being able to help out is payment enough for me. I'm pretty sure you've helped someone else out. Plenty of people have helped me out. The way I see it, what comes around goes around. |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 217 Registered: Nov-07 | Stu Truer words have never been spoken. I hear you on the house thing loud and clear. Now that my gear is in order, I have no more excuses. Mine should be coming next summer or else I could be put out with my new stereo in tow. LOL. I'm definitely enjoying the speakers and can't wait to get them dialed in and broken in. I'll make my way up that way in the near future and we can have a beer or two on me anyway. Thanks again. |
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Bronze Member Username: BetamaxCanada Post Number: 52 Registered: May-07 | Hey Stu, we're saving for a house too, otherwise I'd go crazy upgrading Bryston gear. No rush to buy though -- house prices will keep falling for a couple more years before the bust bottoms out. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2913 Registered: May-05 | Good to hear from you Frank. | |
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Silver Member Username: PcstocktonPost Number: 182 Registered: Apr-08 | The NAPSC is lost in the mail and the 5x turned out to need servicing.So the rack is a little empty. At least the dealer is legit.  |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7386 Registered: Feb-05 | Look at that loverly speaker! Bet there's a matching one there somewhere... | |
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Silver Member Username: PcstocktonPost Number: 183 Registered: Apr-08 | there sure is!!  |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 218 Registered: Nov-07 | Very nice Patrick. From the pics it seems that your Arivas are much darker than my pair. I really like the aged look of the Cherry finish on yours. Hope mine does excatly the same. |
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Silver Member Username: PcstocktonPost Number: 188 Registered: Apr-08 | Ed, If your have really been in the box since they were made, they should be much, much lighter. Cherry, like fir, warms up and gets considerably darker when exposed to light. I saw a picture of some old cherry SBLs and they were REALLY dark. They looked gorgeous. By the way, if you haven't noticed. The grain matching they do on the Arivas is exemplary. Each speaker is a perfect mirror image. |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 219 Registered: Nov-07 | Patrick, I was there when the staples were removed and the boxes were opened for my inspection. This was done immediately prior to me placing them in the back of my truck. Hopefully when they get darker, they will be an exact match to a Cherry Quadraspire I have my eyes on. We will see..... |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3111 Registered: Sep-04 | The Naim veneers are not as dark as the Quadraspire's. It would take some years for them to match and the Naim veneers resist the change more readily than the Quadraspire's. At least that's my experience. We have some older Quadraspires which are bordering on a burnt orange colour. It's nice, but it's quite a bit darker than older Naim cherry veneers I've seen. | |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 222 Registered: Nov-07 | Frank Would the Isoblue be a closer color match? How about something along these lines in a cherry finish http://www.racksandstands.com/asp/show_image.asp?pr=0&sku=VI1001&mult=1 http://www.racksandstands.com/asp/show_image.asp?pr=0&sku=VI1005&mult=1 |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 225 Registered: Nov-07 | Is anyone familiar with Cambre Timbre Audio Racks. They look similiar to the Quadraspire, but how do they perform with Naim gear? I've been searching for reviews and can't seem to turn up much info. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3176 Registered: Sep-04 | Ed isoblue veneers resist change of colour with time. This is because they use a colour stain instead of varnish. The great thing about this is that all isoblue shelves match because they always use the same stains. Is it closer to Naim's veneer than the Quadraspire? I'm not sure. They're all a bit different, but at least you won't get variation over time with the isoblue. The Cambre's are meant to be very nicely made racks. I haven't tried one myself but they have a decent reputation, whatever that's worth. I thought they were more expensive? |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 226 Registered: Nov-07 | Thanks for the info Frank. I'm not thrilled with the Iosblue look, so I am leaning toward the Cambre or Quadrapsire. I was under the impression that the Cambre was cheaper but I could be mistaken. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2957 Registered: May-05 | Enough about the shelves for a few minutes... How are the Arivas treating you? Properly broken in and placed yet? |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 227 Registered: Nov-07 | The speakers are doing me justice I must say. Not quite placed yet as I'm awaiting some new spikes from Accent to level bases properly. They still sound great and they even do well for movie watching. I'm yearning for a CDX2/SuperNait, but I got this strange feeling my kit will be around quite a bit. No need for a review, what else could I say that has not already been said about them. |
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