Cart with table also

 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 9924
Registered: Dec-04
Heres a link to a site, the used table at the bottom might be good as a setup, has a Dynavector 10x5, which might fit right on my vpi/rb300.
Any thoughts?

http://www.alternativeaudio.ca/web/components.shtml
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12382
Registered: May-04
.

I bought this used Ford so I could put the tires on my Honda.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York USA

Post Number: 2580
Registered: May-05
Sorry Nuck, but what exactly are you asking? Are you contemplating buying the setup for the cartridge?
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 9925
Registered: Dec-04
Well, for the cart to go on the vpi, or as a complete tale for a second setup.

It might be easier to try the Dynavector cart on my current table that way, and see if I want to use it, or invest in the Zu that was suggested to me a while back.
The Zu cart is about the same cost as this whole setup.

Jan, maybe think of this as a rebuilt engine in a clunker, bought to transplant into a restored car?
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York USA

Post Number: 2583
Registered: May-05
You are aware that a NEW Dynavector 10x5 costs less than what they're asking for their setup, right?

If you want another table to screw around with, by all means. If you're getting it almost solely for the 10x5, I think you're better off buying a new one.

Do you know how many hours are on the 10x5? Are you confident they and/or the owner of the table is 100% honest?
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 9934
Registered: Dec-04
Yep, Stu, but these are Can$, so the 10x5 is a lot more here.
The table is old, but well known, and it is suspended, with the Basik arm, which MW uses on th lp12, just another option to try.
The cart is low hours, and supported by my regular dealer, whom I know and trust.
Hey, he got me the Clsse setup for cost!
The table is setup and running, I can go and listen.
Does it make any more sense now?

Or not...
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12384
Registered: May-04
.

How many turntables do you need? I know you like to have a bazillion CD players. Are you proposing the same approach with tables? One for this side of the record and another for the other side?


What are you after, Nuck?


.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 9937
Registered: Dec-04
hehe, just a rounded outlook of possibilities, Jan.
The vpi is my focus, but if another table is able to fill 2 avenues, then why not take advantage?
This suspended table is not on a high list of desireable ones, but I could sell it off or part it out, if I do not like it.
The cart would be a plus, as a test unit to see how it sets up and give it a try, that's all.
The vpi is going to sit ona spiked platform on the floor for now, and I think it will like that.
The suspended table is a bit of a question mark, as I love Mikes Linn, but walk on tippie toes.
Just an option that offers possibilities is all.
 

Gold Member
Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York USA

Post Number: 2586
Registered: May-05
I love the sound of Linn analog. The Basik arm, while being a little older and their bottom of the line while in production, is a very good tonearm IMO.

But keep in mind that the Linn arm and your VPI will most likely not mesh well at all. Linn designs everything to vibrate. There's nothing ridgid about them at all. But, they're all designed to vibrate in unison, which basically cancells out the vibration.

Jan will obviously have way more insight on your (his former) turntable, your table is anything like VPI's current school of thought, they didn't design it with bounciness in mind.

A tonearm designed to be used on a bouncy table shouldn't work too well on a very ridgid table, according to my rationale.

Maybe I'm wrong.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12385
Registered: May-04
.

It's not really suspended vs. non-suspended that matters. It is, in this case, whether the table offers any damping to the arm or not. The VPI HW19 is a suspended subchassis table but with far more mass and a different tuning frequency for the suspension than the Linn. As such it also works well when the suspension is removed should conditions allow. The heavy stainless steel and acrylic plinth on the VPI affords a good deal of damping to any arm. The LP12 on the other hand is meant not to damp resonance and vibration so much as let them pass through the structure of the table and its supporting structure quite quickly.


The higher mass of the VPI offers natural damping but at the expense of lowering the inevitable resonant frequency. The combination of acrylic and steel are meant to offer two different resonant points which do not excite each other. But mass by itself holds onto energy while damping it at the same time. What does get through is out of phase with the signal so damping must very effective in mass loaded designs.


The Linn approach is to provide a lightweight structure which has various pieces resonating at different frequencies while none of the individual components hold onto a signal. Therefore, the signal that does pass through is closer to being in phase with the original signal though it is also much higher in level. Much like a Rega, the lighter weight Linn releases energy quickly, pushing the total of the resonant frequencies upward where they are hopefully not as intrusive on the music. Therefore, Linn tables have their signature sound which is lively and tilted toward the presence range. The VPI has weight and substance and not quite as much "bounce" in the midbass but can pull much lower frequencies out of the groove. The Linn plays the 3/5a game of plumping the midbass to make the sound appear to reach lower than it does.


The Linn is far more difficult to set up because all parts must be in perfect alignment and do not stay set up once they are in place. The VPI is a set and forget table for the most part whether you use the suspension or not. But it is not the fact the Linn is a suspended table that makes MW's bounce like it does. It is the frequency to which the table, as a system, is tuned that makes for problems with the Linn in Mike's set up. That and the high mass of his supporting rack. If he moved the table to a single, low, lightweight support without other components, he would probably have far fewer problems with the bounce. The more stiffly sprung VPI would not bounce on his present support system due to its lower resonant frequency and higher mass.

But it is true that arms that typically do well on the Linn do not sound their best on other tables for these same reasons.


.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 9944
Registered: Dec-04
Thank you both friends, for the refresher on suspended table vs solid table mount, I am sure all of our friends here will appreciate that cotribution.
The vpi table is on solid mounts, from the floor to the points on the chassis to the points on the plinth, all very solidly mounted.
The RB300 arm is of a single big hole mount(old stlye) as compared to the 301(3 hole mount).
The power cord is proper, as per Jan's tristed pair and ugly plug.
My question is simply to purchase his table as a secondary unit(spring suspension) as compared to using the 10x5 cart to test and run with the vpi/rb300 combo.
I cerainly hope that others will have gained from all the information dispersed here.
 

Gold Member
Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx USA

Post Number: 1206
Registered: May-06
Upload
 

Gold Member
Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx USA

Post Number: 1207
Registered: May-06
Maybe I should just rest my TT on some of those teepee frames I made to get my wire off of the floor a while back using bamboo BBQ skewers...

then again I could just swap positions of my TT with my tuner but I am sure that is froth with a whole another set of issues. LOL.

Something to consider, thanks JV.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12389
Registered: May-04
.

Nuck, you seem determined to buy this table. What do we need to say to convince you not to buy it? It's your money and your system. I don't see the point but apparently you do.

.
 

Silver Member
Username: Stryvn

Wisconsin

Post Number: 687
Registered: Dec-06
All I know is if I bought Jan's old vpi I'd be using it already.


Thanks for the tt lesson, Jan.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 9952
Registered: Dec-04
Aww geez...

As soon as I have a place to put it, I will run it again...I can get a cart ahead of time, but which one?
And a phono stage, unless I use the old pioneer pre again..and JV ran me up and down for that, with good reason.

Might have to sell a spare amp...
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12393
Registered: May-04
.

Have you listened with the MC cartridge I gave you?
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 9954
Registered: Dec-04
I sure did JV, but only 1 day, and liked the result very much. I had too little time to analyse anything, just to enjoy.
A day later I returned to the music and the stylus was gone from the cart, and I have no explaination for that, just not there, and nowhere to be found.
 

Gold Member
Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 1877
Registered: Nov-05
What were you drinking at the time Nuck?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12396
Registered: May-04
.

You snapped the stylus off a pricey - even if it was free to you - cartridge and now you're thinking about buying another pricey cartridge?!


http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=GRAPREBKS


.
 

Silver Member
Username: Stryvn

Wisconsin

Post Number: 688
Registered: Dec-06
I'm just giving you the business, Nuck. But isn't something better than nothing?

I think I'd put my money in a phono stage right now and reach for the Dynavector later?
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 9956
Registered: Dec-04
I did not snap it, I was very sober, and I set the arm on the stand after listening, folks.
It was just not there when I returned to it.
I combed the carpet and the table, but had no luck at all.
In fact, I have not looked into a stylus for the cart, come to think of it.
I was packing the kit up the next day for a very very quick move.

Perhaps gremlins were at work, I didn't take time to think of that, in fact.
 

Gold Member
Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx USA

Post Number: 1210
Registered: May-06
Like I told you back then, it is probably still stuck in your sweater.

Check the left side of your right cuff.
 

Gold Member
Username: Nuck

Post Number: 9962
Registered: Dec-04
hehehe
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