I'm looking for a solid entry-level TT purchase to complete my system. Entry-level as in, $300-500, since I'm low on funds. Maybe later I'd have more to invest, so future upgrades are probable, but for now I'm looking to buy stock off the shelf and be happy.
My system is Cambridge Audio 640A and 540P phono preamp, paired with Monitor Audio RS6 speakers.
The obvious and readily-available TT's in this range are the Rega P1, the Music Hall MMF2.1 or 2.2, and the Pro-ject Debut III.
Any thoughts? What is best sounding and most reliable off-the-shelf? Are there noticeable differences in tone?
I have an extensive (and growing) vinyl collection with a lot of jazz, rock, folk and funk. Thelonious Monk, Modern Jazz Quartet, Jimmy Smith, Led Zeppelin, The Meters, and Woodie Guthrie are the order of the day...
Rega P1 is the best sounding deck off the shelf. It also has the best tonearm, which will accomadate better cartridges. The sock cartridge isn't very good. If upgrading, the first place to start is the cartridge. Later on replace the platter with an acrylic or glass one. Rega as a brand has the most upgrades, but I'm not sure how many are available for the P1. Maybe more will come down the road? Possibly not because it's an entry level deck, and most will upgrade the wohle table before tweaking it. Then again, you never know.
The Project Debut is a very good table as well. Its a little sommother and more polite than the P1. Some like this, some don't. Its a personal preference. The Debut uses the same stock Ortofon cartridge. Something the Debut has over the P1 is that you can use an external power supply - the Speedbox. The Speedbox is about $120 and worth every penny of it. Its not just a speed changer. The Debut has a better stock platter than the P1, but it can be upgraded as well to an acrylic one.
Saty away from the Music Hall tables. Even though they use a better stock cartridge, are made in the Porject factory, and have the same upgrades as the Debut, its not a well made turntable. It doesn't make sense to me either.
If you'll have more money in a reasonable time, save up and get a Rega P2. No matter what tweaks and upgrades you do to a P1 or Debut, it won't ever sound as good as a stock P2. The P2 with Bias2 cartridge can be had for $650. The Debut costs $300 (non-colored), a new cartridge will run about $100, and a Speed Box will run $120 for a total of $520. The extra $130 total for the P2 is more than worth it, making it a far better value.
There are more than enough upgrades for a P2 to keep you busy for a very long time.
Thanks Stu, big help. By "more polite", I'm guessing you mean more forgiving, yes? I've been told that may be a plus with my MA RS6 speakers, which are very bright and forward. I have to say the $300 right now is very appealing, going into the holidays.
The P1 recently went up in price and I can no longer recommend it at $395. The Project Deput III has become my standard rec at your price point though I also have to say that saving a bit more for the P2 or Project Xpression III may be worth the extra effort/time (and dough).
Maybe polite could be more forgiving. I meant it more as it tends to smooth things over and is less in your face.
The P1 does a better job of telling it like it is IMO. It doesn't smooth out the edges as much as the Debut.
I don't know which is better for you or your system, from a sound quality standpoint. I'm not familiar with your gear nor preferences to make an assumption.
I don't know your financcial situation nor your sense of patience. My suggestion was to wait a little while and save up some more money for a better turntable. If you haven't had a turntable in say 10 years, what's another 4, 5, or even 6 months? Easier said than done, don't get me wrong. My main point was that if you bought a better turntable, you wouldn't have to do all the tweaking and upgrading.
The increased prices are true of all higher end British gear - Rega, Naim, and Linn to name a few. They're not raising their prices, the dollar is falling. Why should they loose money because the dollar's value is going down? If it was the other way around, I'm pretty sure companies like McIntosh and VPI would raise their prices in the UK.
The change in price reflects both the change in the dollar's and value and other more dubious factors as the Apollo at $995 increased to $1195 and the P5 from $1295 to $1395. It appears that the price difference is not in raw percentages but also reflects the popularity of the product.
I'm going to give the Pro-Ject a try. I did some research and am satisfied with the amount and quality of upgrades available for the Debut. I like the idea of it being a little more polite. Plus my favorite online dealer happens to carry them. I ordered the CA 540P preamp, and Audioquest interconnects. I'll let you all know how it sounds. Time to break out some of those old Christmas albums.
good choice!i use that TT upgraded the stylus to the ortofon OM 10(you can just buy the stylus and the install is a snap). would recommend the pro-ject 11 speed box($120)as it adds bass and detail to the music. having never heard a rega(and when and if i do upgrade will consider the P3-24),but the pro-ject sounds great through my cambride 540A V1 with audioquest interconnects(sidewinder),and i have a "lesser" phonostage,the cambridge card that is internally installed,i forget the model number. happy listening and i think you made a great choice).i had my dealer set it up for me(lucky me it is right down the street),but in retro-spec it seems fairly straightfoward.welcome to the world of high end "budget" audio.....oh yeah i have PSB image B25 bookshelves which also are great.
Yes, the upgrade to the speed box will be first (after the holidays), then the cartridge next. Thanks for the thoughts, and I'll let you know how it sounds...
Everything has arrived and is set up, and it sounds great! Amazing how different the vinyl sound is compared to digital. I forgot how much I prefer vinyl...and a good quality turntable really emphasizes what I like about it. Especially the vocals. Granted, I didn't have a great cd source (I was using my CA DVD89), but for now the pendulum has swung to the dark vinyl side. I'm having a blast breaking out all my old records and seeing how they sound on a nice system.
smart choice joe.i think for an "entry level" TT,the pro-ject is plug and play without the wiggle room for upgrades,i wonder about the need for upgrades regrading a new platter for an entry level TT.that said,the debut 111 will be improved with the project speedbox,along with a stylus upgrade to the OM 10 or 20.once again great choice and happy listening.
Forget glass for a platter. Looks great but consider this. Ever take a glas and tap it with a spoon? What do you get ?? Sonic resonance. It resonates. Do the smae with an aluminum tt platter. Now, take a piece of pressed fibre wood. Nothing. No resonating, just a dull thump. It does not transmit the vibration. Basic physics.
MM, your TT has a pressed fiber wood platter, mine has an inner aluminum alloy sub-platter over which fits a full-sized outer platter of machined aluminum alloy. I have been told that theoretically the two different size platters resonance counteracts one another to some degree. I also have a felt pad which I had interchanged with a Ringmamt. I am currently using the stock felt map. I would imagine Rega and others have found similar ways to control the resonance.
I finally got a Pro-Ject speedbox to go along with my Debut turntable, and I am really impressed with the change. I have to say, I was not expecting such a dramatic improvement in depth and clarity. Everything just sounds better! Especially my blues records. I highly recommend an external speedbox to anyone looking for a (fairly) inexpensive upgrade. Next up, new cartridge...?
.i think for an "entry level" TT,the pro-ject is plug and play without the wiggle room for upgrades,i wonder about the need for upgrades regrading a new platter for an entry level TT.that said,the debut 111 will be improved with the project speedbox,along with a stylus upgrade to the OM 10 or 20.once again great choice and happy listening.