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Bronze Member Username: Flame_rosePost Number: 11 Registered: Sep-07 | I have a Naim CD5i, Nait 5i, Jamo D590 speakers and REL Strata 5 sub. Cables are Chord carnival silver plus and interconnect is the standard Naim DIN. Been having harsh sound and bass boom that I couldn't take care of by adjusting speaker placement. Today I borrowed a couple of Castle speakers; "Collumn" and "Durham 3" to see if my speakers were to blame. The column sounded really really harsh while the durhams sounded much better. However I still can't get the warmth and sweetness I'm looking for. My room has ceramic tiles, concrete walls and prefabricated (foam like) roof panels. Room size is 4 X 6 meters and great care has been taken to optimize speaker placement. Anybody got an Idea why I can't get a sweet warm and smooth sound with any speaker??? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5611 Registered: Feb-05 | Sounds like it's the Naim gear...send it my way and I'll test it for a couple years. I'll let you know how it turns out. Do a web search for room treatments...Naim gear does not sound "bad"...rooms sound "bad". |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9183 Registered: Dec-04 | yep |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11725 Registered: May-04 | . https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/accessories/1664.html |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2503 Registered: Sep-04 | Have you tried things without the sub switched on? Do you still get the boom? Most people complain they can't get enough bass from a Naim system, usually because the system simply doesn't do bass when it's not there. It's possible, as the others have suggested, that your room is being excited adversely. I notice that all your tests have been with ported speakers, and both the Jamos and Castles are pretty boom/tizz in my opinion so they wouldn't help anyway. Try some sealed speakers such as Naim's n-Sats. If you get boom with them then it's definitely the room or positioning. (They have very lean bass.) As to positioning, you don't say how the speakers are situated. I am hoping the speakers you have are being used well away from the walls (both D590 and Castles generally need to be well away from walls in order not to boom, at least 18 inches from back and side walls). I'm a bit concerned about the Carnival Silver Plus. This is usually an excellent speaker cable to use in most systems, but I have never used it in a Naim system and its construction is a little odd so I wonder if this could have a higher capacitance than the Naim really enjoys. I know that the Naim amp should be 'speaker cable agnostic' but I have noticed that it sounds better or worse with different cables and generally Naim's own cable seems to work best. Incidentally, if you try them, the Naim n-Sats need to be against the wall in order to give you any bass usually. Regards, Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: Flame_rosePost Number: 12 Registered: Sep-07 | Thanks Frank; Well, boom is there with or without the sub... I think it is in the upper bass notes, maybe around 60-80 Hz. I have my sub crossed over at 32 Hz. The Speakers are 19 inches from the back walls and about 24 inches from the side walls with a good 7 or 8 feet between them. They are toed in about 20 degrees to intersect behind my listening position. However, due to "decorative" reasons my seating position is right at the back wall. I try moving a bit forward but it only helps very little. Sorry the equilateral triangle is not an option for me. As for cables, the NACA5 is a better cable with my system but not in my room. It has more warmth, more drive and sadly more bass extension and depth. so the slightly sweeter sound comes at the penalty of even more boom. The chords sounded gentler in the lower register and and soundstaged in a more focused way. The background was blacker with the NACA. By the way the Nait 5i is the only amp naim makes that is "allowed" to run with any speaker cable. Frank, what experience have u had with the D 590s? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9197 Registered: Dec-04 | MA, from your listening position, try this. Open a bi-fold lp case. Place the sides behind your head, so as to isolate the immeiate rear wall from your ears. What happens now? |
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Bronze Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 99 Registered: Jul-07 | Bass boom is one thing, hardness is another. Ceramics and concrete aren't particularly friendly and are bound to make things a little hot. Do what you can with the room before worrying to much about your components yet. |
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Bronze Member Username: Flame_rosePost Number: 13 Registered: Sep-07 | nice advice guys; I think I'm gonna reposition my equipment this weekend so that the speakers are against the wider wall and the listener has an arch that opens onto another room behind them (that would be me ;)) Will let u know how it goes. Amp is just 10 days old so I'm hoping for smoothening of sound over the next couple of weeks as well. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2520 Registered: Sep-04 | Maher, My recollection was that the D590s were all boom tizz (sorry). Lots of midbass bloat, slightly recessed midrange and slightly sharp treble. The midbass bloat never really exhibited itself as boom because I don't recall them going that deep, but I do remember putting them at least 24 inches from the back wall to avoid causing the back wall to boom. You can also try to restrict the (huge) port a bit with some foam. It may help with the bloat. Also, I would try toeing them in even less than you have currently. I would startcompletely straight on, and toe in a very little at a time, by a couple of degrees. When you toe in the speakers you are more likely to compound bass resonances it seems to me. I understand what you say about NACA5. Try the above steps and then try it again. Incidentally the Nait5i and the 150x both can take most speaker cables. It's the reference range which can't. Regards, Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: Flame_rosePost Number: 14 Registered: Sep-07 | thanks Frank; It has been about a week since my initial post and the Nait has had some more time to run in. Sound is definitely smoothening out. Did add a few pillows and a rug into the room. All those factors are giving me a nicer sound. Moved back to the NACA-5 for a comparison and at the end of the day I will stick to it. It is currently at my dealer, who is setting it up with an "F" connection to connect to my speakers and get rid of the jumpers at the speaker terminals. Looking forward to it. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5621 Registered: Feb-05 | I think he said your speakers aren't very good, may want to check into others. |
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Bronze Member Username: Flame_rosePost Number: 15 Registered: Sep-07 | Well Art, I'm i saudi arabia and myu options are very limited. The quad/Mc Intosh dealer is shutting down. We have a dealer that carries definitive audio and JM Lab. Another dealer carries Sonus faber. Lastly, I have Jamo, Naim and Bose. Oh, I also have Q acoustics. So u see my options are either the very expensive or the not so good. When I A/B tested my Jamos with two different castle speakers at home, the jamo was still the better one. Wish we had a B&W or Totem dealer. |
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Bronze Member Username: Flame_rosePost Number: 16 Registered: Sep-07 | Well Frank; I followed your advice. I got me a piece of thick and firm sponge roughly the size of a brick. I cut it in half and used it to plug the ports at the back of the speaker. I was able to achieve a 90% seal. The sound did get tighter and the bass boom was greatly reduced. Some warmth was lost from the mids in the process but moving the speakers and inch closer to the back wall helped in that regard. Bass extension was just a bit compromised. I paid attention to my sub settings and raising the crossover frequency from 30Hz to 34Hz filled in the gap nicely and also added more timber to the upper bass/lower mids. REL subs are really very flexible and incorporate nicely just into any system, IMHO. The real reflection is that for the first time I am actually enjoying the music and responding emotionally, rather than being analytical and looking for hi-fi attributes. It is fun :D NACA arrives tomorrow.... will update |