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Bronze Member Username: CdjSouthern Ohio Post Number: 28 Registered: Apr-04 | Please excuse the long post, but I want to give all the pertinent information that might be helpful. I've spent hours reading reviews, posts and searches in my quest for new speakers. I'm by no means an audiophile, simply want to have a good basic system for listening to music in a relaxing way. My budget is up to $1000 or so, less preferably. I have recently bought an Onkyo A-9555 integrated amp and Rotel RCD-1072 CD player. Now I need to replace my vintage Infinity RS6b speakers. My listening room, 12'x12'x10', is also the spare bedroom with an overstuffed sleeper sofa (I know it's far from ideal but that's what I have, no possibility of changing). The seating position is about 8 to 9' from the speaker location, 10' if the speakers are against the wall. My music preferences are jazz and classical, no rock etc. Can I use small floor standing speakers such as the Monitor RS6, Totem Arro, Silverline Prelude or Quad 21L? Or should I be looking at monitors? The only audio shops within 70 miles are almost exclusively home theater oriented and have offered only superficial help. I'm not looking for a brand recommendation but rather a recommendation about which "class" of speakers would best serve my needs. TIA for any insights you can share! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5604 Registered: Feb-05 | The Rotel CD player is not a very detailed one it is instead very forward and agressive, I don't mean that in a bad way it's just that the Rotel lacks finesse and as such should be looking for a speaker that shares it's personality. The Onkyo, I don't know but I'm sure it is ruled by the full bodied sound of your main source anyway. The Totem Sttaf would be a good speaker for your needs. You picked a cd player that is a rock aficionado and a little less proficient with jazz. I do like how it speaks the language of classical, especially HDCD's from Reference Recordings. The Totem's will give you a full bodied presentation and allow the strenths of the rest of your system to shine. I'm not going to erase the comments above but I just noticed that your amp is a digital switching amp. The Sttafs are about as a stable a load as you get with Totem and so they are pretty much the best option with Totem. Keep in mind that with a digital amp you don't want a speaker that has wild impedence swings..good luck. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11716 Registered: May-04 | . I'll take Art's word for your amplifier being a "digital" design. His advice regarding impedance stability is something you must consider when choosing speakers for such an amplifier. Even if the amp is not a digital design, choosing speakers with a stable impedance load and a benign phase angle only makes sense to me. Making life difficult for the amplifier is foolish IMO. So your reading should concentrate first on which speakers are a relatively simple load for the amplifier. Any speaker system with a dip in impedance beneath about five Ohms is probably one you should avoid. Electrical phase angle is to be kept as close to 0° as possible. If the material you're reading isn't giving you full measurements of the speakers under test, stop reading those magazines or use them after you've found a test report on the speaker. Otherwise, they are worthless in assisting you in a real world fashion. You need not be a technician and the magazines do not have to be chock full of graphs and charts but you must know how a speaker will interact with your amplifier before you can make an informed decision. If you do not heed this warning, your sound quality will suffer in ways that can only be repaired by replacement of the amplifier or the speakers. If you want to spend your money once, look for test results. Your room is a very large problem. First every dimension puts it as a near cube. Cube shaped rooms sound horrible as every dimension reinforces the same bass spikes and nulls the same bass dips. Bass will be ragged and lumpy in this room. Sitting at the distance you do from the speakers will place them at or close to the wall. This also makes for truly horrible bass. Modern speakers want to be several feet from the walls both behind them and to the side of them. In a situation like this the best thing you have going for you is the bed which will act somewhat as a bass trap - though it's location is not where it will do the most good. My recommnedation would be to forgo a floorstanding, full range speaker. You are never going to get the type and extension of bass response such a speaker is capable of providing in a better room. Cut your budget in half for your speakers and search for standmounted monitors that suit your taste. In today's market there are not speakers in your price range that like being close to the wall. You'll need good stands and some room treatment devices to make the system work well. Early reflections from the wall near your head should be treated to remove the glare which results from a too close to the wall listening location. Some treatment on the side walls at the first reflection points should go a long way toward lowering the harshness most modern speakers will exhibit in such a room. If possible, I would consider a speaker with a more directional mid to high frequency response. Broad dispersion tweeters will only exacerbate the problems of speaker placement in a too small room. Spend your money on good monitor type speakers and in this room you'll get 95% of the music on the discs. Buy good stands and some room treatments and you'll enjoy all of the music and won't be back here in a few months asking why your new speakers sound so bad in your room. At a later date I would try a small subwoofer to add a bit of extension to the response and to open the soundstage further. You do not need extension to 20Hz so think small bt good in subwoofers. Buy a powered sub with a steep low pass/high pass filter and run your main speakers from this filter. The sub's palcement flexibility should go a long way toward giving you the best bass response in this difficult room while not interfering with the sound of the main satellites. You might want to invest in a two band parametric EQ to tame the room problems. . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9168 Registered: Dec-04 | Yes, and yes. Carl, if your musical interests are Jazz, then following the source first mantra(which I do), then I would rather remove my own spleen with a rusty blade than rely on the 1072. OK that's my humour for the day, but the core message is the same...not this player.Please. I run several players, and the 1072 is used exclusively for Rock. Think Zep and AC/DC. The next best option, but more $ is the good old Rega Apollo, which we all own. There is a reason for that. Jan's speaker assessment is spot on, Art's experience with the Totem's is very right. That room will just kill any fun you are looking for, unless you correct the square, and bring the Totems out into the room. However, all is not lost. From one post, and simply that, you really should look at small monitors on really good stands, just like JV said. Hey Art, would the Studio 20's work here? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5607 Registered: Feb-05 | I'm not going to recommend the latest incarnation of Paradigm as I haven't heard them enough and there seems to be some issues with Paradigm at present. Here is something to consider....get ready for this Gavin...the Magnepan MMG suits your musical interest very well and could be driven very nicely by your amp. Thay are a very stable 4 ohm load and seem to shine with switching amps. $550 bucks later you can go out and buy some music...ain't that what it's about! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9173 Registered: Dec-04 | Now there is something to think about Carl. Room space is not an issue, Mag sells a nifty wall mount kit as well. Toss in a REL sub for speed, and... |
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Bronze Member Username: CdjSouthern Ohio Post Number: 29 Registered: Apr-04 | WOW! I posted my question here because I've always been impressed with the well-reasoned responses versus the "build a new music room" type responses on some of the other forums. I really appreciate the responses so far. Nuck: Since I got exceptional deals on the Rotel and Onkyo, I may want to take your advise, sell them and start over with a different source/amp setup that allows more flexibility. Sigh! Jan and Art: Your comments are exactly the type I was hoping for. Thanks! I have an old Victorian home and every room is a cube of one size or the other, the largest being 16" cubes. Every wall is broken up with either doors, windows, fireplaces or a combination of the above. Hopefully you wont mind if I come back and ask your insights after I come up with some options. I greatly appreciate the time you have taken to offer your help! Now back to the researching. |
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Silver Member Username: BvanCape Town, Copenhagen,... Post Number: 295 Registered: Jun-05 | I think bookshelf + EQ'd sub is a good idea. But what also might be a good idea is a good, big, floorstander and Behringer DEQ2496. b. |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 695 Registered: Jun-07 | FWIW, the new Studio 20's are a good speaker. The new Studio series now have the tweeters from the Signature line, and have been said to be the best Studio Line to date. The Monitor series on the other hand, is where their problems are. |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 696 Registered: Jun-07 | But the MAG's for your situation would be a better choice. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 101 Registered: Jul-07 | I'm wondering what you don't like about your current setup....with the Infinity's. What are you hearing that is not to your liking ? As has been eluded to, your speakers may not be the long pole in the tent.....as you may benefit more from upgrading your source and/or amp. Depending on what your ultimate goals are for the room, you could spend the $1000 on either a new cdp, or a decent DAC. My own experience with Onkyo amplification has not been good, especially for jazz....as I find they lose all of the delicacy in the recording. As long as you have a little patience, you will get what you want. The question is, what will get you the most gain, the quickest. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgUpstate, New York Post Number: 1003 Registered: Nov-06 | I myself have the MMG, and in the right room they are heaven on earth. You may not find a better speaker at the price point if you can live within its restrictions. IE: very fast, but musical bass that is somewhat limited in the lower end. However, these speakers DO NOT sound like a minimonitor. Properly set up, they sound rich and full. They have never left me wanting for more, except for the occasional bass rich R&B track. They are also a dipolar speaker, and this is where my issue lies with them right now. They need to be positioned a minimum of 3 feet from each reflective surface to fully do them justice. The room they are in now is of a wierd shape (lacks a wall behind the right speaker). this does not make for a pleasing balance. You will not have this issue in your room. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgUpstate, New York Post Number: 1004 Registered: Nov-06 | magnepan also makes speakers that are specifically designed to mount on the wall, but these require a very musical subwoofer to ensure proper synergy. No $100 BB models apply here... |
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Bronze Member Username: CdjSouthern Ohio Post Number: 30 Registered: Apr-04 | Sorry for not having replied sooner, been busy with the search! I'll respond to some of your suggestions and then mention the speakers I've settled on. Art: Yes, there does seem to be some strong opinions about the Rotel and I may end up replacing it, but that will have to wait a while until the $$$ are more readily available. Christmas shopping is upon us right now and speakers are about all I can swing comfortably for a few months. Jan: Thanks for the very thorough response. Yes the cubic room is the problem leading to my original post. Unfortunately room treatments and a sub are not in the picture. Domestic tranquility would be severely strained with the mention of such. I'm considering replacing the Onkyo with a Parasound Halo P3 preamp and my Parasound HCA 2200MkII (which may later be replaced with a Halo amp). Chris: I have vintage Infinity RS6b speakers (20 years old) and have enjoyed them but they just don't work in so small a room. The Emit tweeter can also be pretty "bright" at times. It was not as noticeable when I had them in a much larger room where they weren't so close to me. The Rotel may be exacerbating that quality. I appreciate the suggestions for the Magnepans but, after doing some reading, I just don't think they'll work given the constraints I have with the room. And then there's that domestic tranquility thing again. Now, the moment you've all been waiting for. After reading way too many reviews and forum posts, I finally found what I think will be a good choice. The new Salk Song Tower speakers. I explained my situation to Jim Salk and he feels that the Song Towers will address the issues with the room. "If you can have any room at all behind the speakers, they become a very good alternative in that they couple with the room very well and don't excite room modes the way most ported systems do." I wont go into great lengths about them but if you're interested in reading more about the Song Towers, here are some links: http://www.salksound.com/songtower.shtml http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?board=82 http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36600 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=896499 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=931069 I know that this is probably only one step in coming up with an enjoyable setup, but I'm hoping it will be a big one. Thanks again for the wealth of experience and help. I'm extremely appreciative. |