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New member Username: RavinkPost Number: 2 Registered: Sep-07 | Hello all, Some background info, heres my current setup Marantz PM4001,Monitor Audio Bronze B1 and a Citypulse DAC. Currently the source is an Oppo 970HD. On a whim i connected an old JVC hi fi that had digital out and was amazed at the difference in sound.The sound lost its boom,bass was tight and the highs were clean where as with the oppo it was harsh sounding. Thing is the jvc is very old and falling apart so would like to get something else to use as a transport. Am from South India and Marantz and Denon are easily accessible so am currently looking at the CD5001 and the Denon DCD-500AE From what I have read online the Marantz has a very narrow soundstage and sharp highs while the Denon is warmer and full sounding (but made in China?) So was hoping if I could get some one to point me in the right direction to go especially since the players are only available on order and I cant demo them. Cambridge audio is also available so I could have a look at that. but for now if i had to choose between the above whats the way to go ? I did read the other thread about replacing the source or getting better speakers. It was a good read but i think i'll give my speakers a chance and try getting a proper transport. cheers and sorry for the long post. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11399 Registered: May-04 | . "Budget transport to replace oppo 970" You have a budget transport. The descriptions you've read include the effect of the player's own DAC's and analog output devices. Using the player as a transport only will not give the same results as using the player as a complete source device. . |
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New member Username: RavinkPost Number: 3 Registered: Sep-07 | yes i thought of the same but the fact that i experienced boom and some harshness is making me look for alternatives |
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Bronze Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 41 Registered: Jul-07 | JV - What characteristics (design wise) should he look for in a player used for transport only. As you say the internal DAC is bypassed, so what design features should result in a digital output signal with some degree of integrity ? I use my NAD 541i as a transport, but have tried my Oppo as well. I don't notice much difference sonically, although the Oppo seems to cause the soundstage to move back about 3 feet, whereas the NAD is more forward. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11538 Registered: May-04 | . I really have no good answer to that particular question. Transports vary to some extent in their rigidity and integrity. In the lower price ranges most transports are O.E.M. devices purchased from just a handful of suppliers, Sony and Philips being predominant. If most of the transports you are looking at are using the same basic mechanics, then you'll have to look further into the player to find the differences that set one apart from the others. I would begin with how the disc is held in place if I have various transports to choose from. The three captured balls as seen in the Rega players has always seemed to produce a better than average player. The transports on the various Naim players have produced good results. Holding the disc stable to reduce read errors and jitter while improving timing is the point of these transports but there's far more to it than just not letting the disc wobble. And everyone has their own answer to how it should be done and why their transport is better than the competition. Your question is no different than asking what design features should be considered in an amplifier or turntable. There is no one answer. If there were, everyone would be building the same thing. . |
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Bronze Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 42 Registered: Jul-07 | Fair enough. I guess I'm having a hard time understanding what an elderly JVC unit would be doing so well that it would sound distinctly different with that DAC from the Oppo. Raven, if you can, demo both the Marantz and Denon units with your DAC. It's portable enough you could take it to the dealer if they won't loan you the units for a home demo. |
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New member Username: RavinkPost Number: 4 Registered: Sep-07 | i decided to get a cambridge azur 340c. the transport is more or less the same across the range 540/640 et al with the dac being different i think so makes sense to get the base player and use with my dac |
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New member Username: RavinkPost Number: 5 Registered: Sep-07 | at chris no idea what the jvc is doing but its less harsh compared to oppo and bass is less boomy. the soundstage is slightly better with oppo i feel . and some details dont come through too well when using oppo in a low end setup like mine you dont know but maybe the limitation could be anywhere say amp or speakers even and maybe a thin sounding source can make a bloated speaker sound nic |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8904 Registered: Dec-04 | Ravin, those limitations aren't just for a modest setup. It goes in degrees, where an astute listener could find fault with some rather more expensive gear. All of these descriptors are rather subjective. |
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Bronze Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 43 Registered: Jul-07 | Are you using the Coaxial connection for your DAC or the Optical ? I've heard some Toslink implementations are not the best. Coupled with a cheap cable the results may not be pleasant. |
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New member Username: RavinkPost Number: 6 Registered: Sep-07 | am using a nexxtech optical cable from the cdp to the dac |
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New member Username: RavinkPost Number: 7 Registered: Sep-07 | and using straightwire ic from dac to amp |
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Bronze Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 44 Registered: Jul-07 | I'm wondering if you'd notice a difference with a decent digital coaxial cable vs the optical connection. |
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New member Username: RavinkPost Number: 8 Registered: Sep-07 | have to give it a try. i tried with a cheap coax and a cheap digital before i got my current optical cable and found no difference in the sound. |
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New member Username: NowayPost Number: 6 Registered: Oct-07 | Differences are likely due to jitter, the Oppo being very high (bad), about 20x higher than my standalone transport. Often the coax connection will have lower jitter but I'm afraid with the Oppo you will have high jitter no matter what. You could get a used California Audio Labs Delta or Theta transport on Audiogon or Ebay. Jitter is measured in picoseconds or nanoseconds, so if you use Google, search for jitter/picoseconds or nanoseconds/(whatever cd player or transport you are interested in) and look at the numbers, like this: (watch line wrap) http://www.google.com/search?as_q=jitter+oppo+970&hl=en&num=100&btnG=Google+Sear ch&as_epq=&as_oq=picoseconds+nanoseconds&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr= all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=off Note in the first link the jitter of the 970 is 4 nanoseconds which not only is high, it is in my opinion irresponsible from a manufacturing perspective but typical of many of todays DVD players which are built very cheaply and work fine for DVD but are not optimal for audio. I'm not writing this to make anyone mad, it's just that if you want a nice DVD player for $200 the Oppo is the ticket, but it is no substitute for a low-jitter CD player or low-jitter dedicated transport. If you wanted both in the same unit, these companies could build it but the cost would put them out of the $200 market. |
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New member Username: RavinkPost Number: 9 Registered: Sep-07 | Noway that was a very informative post. Thanks so much |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11600 Registered: May-04 | . "Differences are likely due to jitter ... " While I agreed to the importance of low jitter, it is difficult to imagine RM's "old JVC hifi" has lower jitter than the Oppo. I doubt there are measurements to confirm that arguement but I doubt jitter is accounting for the perceived differences in sound between RM's two transports. . |