My fantastic proposition..is it good?
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godDoncaster, South Yorkshire England Post Number: 535 Registered: Jan-05 | What I think I might do is get rid of my subwoofer. Then upgrade my speakers. Why? I think the subwoofer 'imposes' on the quality of the music from the speakers. Plus my room is square and bass is very uneven in different areas. What will I do? Replace my wharfedale diamond 8.1s with quad 11s!! Is this a good upgrade? My cambridge audio 540a amp will remain. I shall be likely getting some gale hyperlitz/symphony 300 (300strand) copper cable. I will not be biwiring as I dont hear a difference plus cant afford it. Thumbs up? Cheers, JJ |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10841 Registered: May-04 | . "Replace my wharfedale diamond 8.1s with quad 11s!!" What will that accomplish? Give you more bass from the main speakers? If the room problem is bass, more bass ain't gonna solve it. . |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godDoncaster, South Yorkshire England Post Number: 536 Registered: Jan-05 | What about the rest of it..from what you're saying the quads are only better in the bass region then? A subwoofer on the floor vs stand mounted speakers are going to sound different in bass terms. Plus the diamonds are front ported unlike the quads being rear. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 786 Registered: Apr-06 | The question remains: What are you looking to accomplish? Are your main speakers still abysmally placed? Are you still listening to low bitrate mp3s as your primary source? Have you heard the Quads, or just heard of them? Why are you continually unhappy with what you have? Do you think that you're just going to be able to replace a cable or speaker and you will fix the above mentioned problems, and be in utter bliss? Last I've checked, you replaced the speakers once; the new speakers didn't satisfy you. You replaced the speaker wire once; the new wire didn't satisfy you. Get the hint. If you're going for actual audiophile quality, place the speakers properly. If you're looking for audiophile quality, don't rely on mp3s you download as your primary source. If you're looking for audiophile quality, don't swap out components on a monthly basis, thinking that you're just one cable swap away from bliss; build a complete system that you know you'll be happy with. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godDoncaster, South Yorkshire England Post Number: 537 Registered: Jan-05 | Stephen. The truth is my subwoofer is off and I actually prefer the sound without it. In my old (larger room) I also thought this although didnt want to admit it. I'm going to sell it. Are your main speakers still abysmally placed? No! I will have some stands soon and they are in a good position. Are you still listening to low bitrate mp3s as your primary source? I am listening to mp3s, but not particularly low bitrate, at very least 192 is my attempted lower limit. I do have a fair few 128kbps ones still. I may start ituning my songs and albums, particular ones I like and get rid of the songs I dont like anymore, of course which will be a lengthy task. Have you heard the Quads, or just heard of them? I have not heard them. Why are you continually unhappy with what you have? Because I finally found a placement in my old room which gave me a glimpse of amazing imaging which was fantastic. I'm looking for something in my speakers which maximises performance. Since the quads are so similiar in design thats where I'm coming from. I may be able to get them for a good price too and they look spectacular which without denying is an important factor. Do you think that you're just going to be able to replace a cable or speaker and you will fix the above mentioned problems, and be in utter bliss? I hope so. Although I do know synergy is the key factor. Besides that, I'm also considering that I'm going to uni in a few months. The room will be about the same size as my current one here at home. And a subwoofer will only annoy everybody else not to mention I think its better without. I know where you're coming from but I'm just trying to try equipment out to get a taste of different qualities. So, the speakers will be placed properly, on Atacama Nexus 6 stands. I shall mass load them. I'm finally getting it together now I know what qualities I like. And I think in all honesty I prefer rear ported speakers. They will not be against the wall either. I will leave about 7" behind the speakers. Is this sounding more promising? I think its safe to say I am an audiophile that why I'm on this forum so much and explain to my friends Im not a weirdo for spending so much on audio. I dont care what they think because they dont know what they're missing. Thanks, JJ |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10845 Registered: May-04 | . "And I think in all honesty I prefer rear ported speakers." Really? What makes the port placement so important and what does it change? It's still just a hole in the enclosure to vent internal pressure. . |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godDoncaster, South Yorkshire England Post Number: 538 Registered: Jan-05 | Because the bass is less powerful and less in my face. I think front ported enhances any bass 'lumps' or 'boom' which when at the side of my speakers or even behind them isnt apparent. The sound is simply 'nicer', more listenable. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10848 Registered: May-04 | . JJ, you need to listen and think more. The port serves the same function and covers the same frequencies no matter where it is placed on the enclosure. Bass comes from the driver. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godDoncaster, South Yorkshire England Post Number: 539 Registered: Jan-05 | Perhaps I just want to try a different speaker. Perhaps something more upmarket, it could be I simply don't like something in the bass with the 8.1s! I can't get to anywhere that demo's easily enough apart from one place called the hi-fi studios 7.2 miles away. They have this music equipment: Musical Fidelity, Tag Maclaren, Electrocampaniet, Proac, Ruark, Castle, Teac, Denson Audio Labs, JM Labs, Rel Acoustics, Celestion A series, Unison Research, Monitor Audio, Harbeth, Nad, Mitchell Turntables, Audio Analogue, Living Voice, PMC, Denon, Disnon, Opera, Tricord research, Nordant Cables, Stands Unique, Stax, Ortofon Cartridges, Project Turntables, Croft Valves, Audio Static, Notts Anologue... A quick question, have you heard the Ruark Sceptre? Can you compare it to the quad 11l? I think I'll take a trip down there one time since its the holidays. I'll have to see if there's any busses there! JJ |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1424 Registered: Nov-05 | JJ - You'll find the Quad 11's do not put out much bass - except what they do put out is nice and tight. They image fabulously, but so do the Quad 12's which have a larger driver and deliver more bass as well as sounding a little better all round. That being said, you really should audition as many speakers as possible before making a decision. Heck, if it's bass you want you may even consider the B&W602's. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godDoncaster, South Yorkshire England Post Number: 541 Registered: Jan-05 | Its bass I dont want too much of. Thats the problem I think I'm hearing resonance. I dont like it. I was looking at the Athena AS B1/2 earlier. Then just now the wharfedale evolution2-8. Then I think wharfedale are bringing out a new opus line. I don't buy having listened. I buy then listen, its just the way things are with me because I don't drive. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7984 Registered: Dec-04 | JJ, hop on yer bike and ride the 12k or whatever. I used to ride 20k every Saturday to go to the hi-fi shop I liked. Or hop a lorry. If you have all that stuff nearby, then you should pick another hobby for not going there. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godDoncaster, South Yorkshire England Post Number: 542 Registered: Jan-05 | It crossed my mind already Nuck! I've actually found a route on google avoiding the motorway so I think I'll give them a ring tomorrow to see what Monitor Audio stuff they have in. Why would I want to pick another hobby!? Its been exams, coursework, no job=no money. No time. Now i have a part time job. Plenty of time. And i fixed my bike. So the hobbey is staying. I've had a long think about what I want Jan, and anyone else.. I think what I'm after is something a little less coloured which I think my diamonds are. I want something more exciting. Something more refined if thats the right word. The new opus line;it was merely a spur of the moment fantasy and will cost way too much I'm betting. The evolution is far to big! The Quad 11l may be a possibility yet they still have a silk dome tweeter which I think is pulling the excitement out of music. So..Monitor Audio BR2 is in my mind. No kevlar driver which I think is muddying and colourising things. And no relaxed silk dome tweeter. Its in my price range and can be bought easily. The Athena's will probably cost a lot in the UK. There it is for you, for now.. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7987 Registered: Dec-04 | Go man, go. Have a listen. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godDoncaster, South Yorkshire England Post Number: 543 Registered: Jan-05 | Will do just that Nuck (if they have them). I will audition both the BR2 and the RS1 if they have them. Theres also some ruark epilogue 2s on ebay-any opinions on these and the ma rs1s? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7989 Registered: Dec-04 | No advise on those except to trust your ears, JJ. |
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Bronze Member Username: Nickelbut10Canada Post Number: 69 Registered: Jun-07 | mmmMMMMmm Monitor Audio. Try to go RS line if it is in your budget. Its worth it. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7992 Registered: Dec-04 | I have the MA 8i's, and they have real potential, although my room is in a shambles. They played extremely well outdoors. These MA's have a lot of body to them, and a surprisingly wide field. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7993 Registered: Dec-04 | The rs series has reviewed about the same. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7994 Registered: Dec-04 | very easy to drive. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10851 Registered: May-04 | . "The Quad 11l may be a possibility yet they still have a silk dome tweeter which I think is pulling the excitement out of music." My, so many opinions of how things affect the music. Any logical reason for not liking silk domes, JJ? . |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godDoncaster, South Yorkshire England Post Number: 544 Registered: Jan-05 | I got a litle confused last night. It was like an overload of what to have and not get. I love silk domes. I think they're superb, i really do. Like I said I think I just wanted something different. I remember I had mylar dome tweeters on a set of monitors once that worked really well. Hell getting rid of the subwoofer was one of the best things I've done so far. I really cant believe how much I prefer it without. Thanks Nuck, I noticed theyr'e easy to drive which is a bonus. I think I'll ring the up the dealers in a few mins. All I ask is if I did go for the quads, do you think my ca 540a amp would be good enough for them? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8000 Registered: Dec-04 | https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/369711.html Ask Kevin, JJ. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godDoncaster, South Yorkshire England Post Number: 546 Registered: Jan-05 | Nuck... News for you.. I seem to get on well with the dealer and apparently they have some floorstanders in, the Monitor Audio RS5is, in cherry. New condition. And they were at £250. He said he could do £230 for me! I think I could probably convince a £200. I can either go and audition them or take them home for free to try!! My god lol I think I'll do that and see how they fair up. Any opinions on the rs5i? Cheers |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8004 Registered: Dec-04 | JJ, no direct listening to quote from. The rs6's have gotten some happy listeners, again no direct impressions. The MA's that I have heard do not seem to be so picky about placement. My 8i's(thanks Mike) are not choosy at all. Great broadcast, very full, these are 90db as well. |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 346 Registered: Dec-06 | If not the RS5i's, the dealer's a keeper, JJ. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10854 Registered: May-04 | . "I love silk domes. I think they're superb, i really do. Like I said I think I just wanted something different. I remember I had mylar dome tweeters on a set of monitors once that worked really well." JJ - It ain't about what technology is used in the component. If there's enough money and the dsigner is talented enough, most any technology can sound good. They all have their merits and they all have disadvantages. But you're not seeing the forest for the trees that are in the way. Big picture, guy! You need to get off the hardware merry go 'round and get some idea what music sounds like. No, you do not have an idea what music sounds like, I can tell from what you post. Then you need to focus on buying a decent music system and not just another hifi you'll get tired of in another few weeks. So far you impress me as someone without a clue as to what you would hear at a live event or how to get that replicated in your home. You don't seem to care that you don't know what's what and you prefer to spend money to "buy then listen". You will swing from this type product to that type product justifying it all by what design the manufacturer chose when you really have no idea what the benefits of that technology are or are not. You're reading reviews when you should be listening to music. I know, that's not it at all; is it, JJ? Go spend your money, JJ. Talk to him, gentlemen. There's no more for me here. . |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godDoncaster, South Yorkshire England Post Number: 548 Registered: Jan-05 | You know what. The rs5s are a no goer. Why? They're too big. Choice one; Bookshelfs or nothing. Hello Jan. Good post it was quite harsh on me, was it supposed to knock some sense into me? You did well in all honesty. "No, you do not have an idea what music sounds like, I can tell from what you post" ...really struck me! It implies I've never been to a concert, gig or anything. However was you meaning I dont know what it sounds like during production? Then no, I dont know. Since you're the far more experienced and more respected around here I'll not challenge you. But that comment is absurd to say the least. Im 18, have little money and time over the past few years. With little money comes little choice. Should I sell my amp and get a super t-amp? It's not like anywhere auditions that and yet on a previous post someone mentioned they prefer the super t-amp over the ca540a. I shall, go to 'the hi-fi studios' near me with my amp and some music and try out some stuff out of curiosity. After all I'm not obligated to buy. Perhaps I'll ask if I can try everything! In all truthfulness and honesty I shall admit as blindley as I can...NO! I dont know how to replicate 'live' sound with a system. How will I know this? I come here to seek help and i try hard to gain a good understanding. Actually I can't find anywhere near me that has quad 11ls, monitor audio rs1 or br2 (which are all in my price range with help of ebay for the rs1s). Here you say, you're on the merry go round again. I say I'm not because they're in my price range and rate better than what I have now. How would you replicate sound, are you entirely with your system Jan? Size and money are the two important things I consider for anyone to consider important before anything else. I was at work earlier, just packing up I heard through the windows a gig. Every instrument was clear and distinct, although the music not too great thats besides the point. Hell if anyone has a system that can do that I'd want to hear it right now! Mind you, it'll probably cost £40k. If it helps, I've tuned my diamonds to -9.0db at 100hz with 18 semitone width and a -1db at 350hz with 15 semitones. The huge drop in bass has made these diamonds sound much more musical. Does this tell you anything about what kind of sound I may like with other speakers. Or is audiophilia purely listen and learn? Im suspecting its a mix of both. Because the bass sounds unnatural (unlive) where everything else sounds more real. Thank You James |
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Silver Member Username: Sun_kingUK Post Number: 397 Registered: Mar-04 | James, I've just looked through this thread and earlier you were discussing ports. Rear-ported speakers actually accentuate the bass if not placed several feet away from walls etc. If you intend reducing bass and/or putting your speakers near to a wall you need to forget about rear-ported speakers. If a speaker is weak on bass then it can be a good idea but generally not! When a speaker is correctly positioned in a room then it matters not a jot where the port is. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10867 Registered: May-04 | . I understand the point being made about rear ports but all speakers emphasize the midbass response (which colors the lower bass such as it is in 8.1's or any other speaker) when not positioned a few feet from supporting walls. The only exceptions to this rule are speakers designed for a specific placement, usually against a wall or in a corner. It is called a 2 or 4 pi alignment. However, the point to keep in mind is speaker placement will gain more - for free - than any amount of technology can manage alone. If you have room problems that create bass response irregularities, buying different speakers is not solving the problem. Understanding the way speakers work in a room and going about solving the problems speakers create in a room is the best approach to better sound. "Should I sell my amp and get a super t-amp?" Where the hell did that come from? Now you want to buy something else that someone else prefers to what you already own. And you don't even know what the T-amp sounds like or what it can manage with your speakers! YOU AREN'T PAYING ATTENTION! "Does this tell you anything about what kind of sound I may like with other speakers." YOU AREN'T PAYING ATTENTION! "Size and money are the two important things I consider for anyone to consider important before anything else." Go back and read the large print above. "I dont know how to replicate 'live' sound with a system. How will I know this?" You'll know this when you stop listening to your system. You might be listening to live music around you but you are not thinking about what makes live music sound different than your system. You are not hearing what is in live music. You are hearing ports and tweeters and amplifiers. None of which can make music on their own. You need to hear music. Just music. Listen to music for what music does, not how it compares to your hifi. Experience music and take that experience into the shops. Close your eyes and don't buy until you begin to experience the same things in the shop as you do at the performance. Know what you're hearing. You need to take a music appreciation class so you know how to listen. There are people who hear far more on far lesser quality components than you already won. Ask them what they hear and then listen for that. Stop hearing the components. My system has remained largely unchanged for twenty plus years. It has gradually inched toward better sound over that time. Presently, there are times I sit with a big grin on my face. Quite often actually. Other times, I just listen to the music. Pretty much the same as I've done for the last twenty plus years. . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8015 Registered: Dec-04 | The grin on the face is worth a zillion words. Tapping my toes is even better. Long live the music, whatever yer flaver. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godDoncaster, South Yorkshire England Post Number: 550 Registered: Jan-05 | "You need to take a music appreciation class so you know how to listen." Maybe I should do. How would you teach this class? "You are not hearing what is in live music." What do you hear in live music? I'll listen more carefully to what makes music in a system different to live music. I phoned up a place a city away from me around 30 miles away. I can get a train there. I rang up just now and they said sure come down, JmLab are what I'm going to demo for a possible purchase in the coming weeks. I dont know which model. Of course I'll demo other things to see how accurate to the real thing I can get as of course I'll not purchase anything I dont think sounds half realistic. The thing is Jan a lot of concerts etc have music which doesnt have any imaging (which most of us like), often it can be blaringly loud. One time I saw a solo guitarist and I remember the experience to be very emotional and the guitar strings plucking were great. Once in America I was at a musical and they had a guitarist who was playing behind a stall thing. I didnt notice until half way through the musical because it sounded so damn good I was sure it couldnt be from a speaker. Which it wasnt it was live. I'll take what you've said to careful consideration but to anybody, admitedly its certainly difficult and time consuming to find that perfect sound. Any tips for room enhancement if this is such a contributing factor? I know this sounds odd..but after everything you've said. My diamonds sound different.  |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10875 Registered: May-04 | . "How would you teach this class?" The instructor will know. "What do you hear in live music?" Music, plain and simple. Listen. "The thing is Jan a lot of concerts etc have music which doesnt have any imaging ... " You don't really understand what you have said, do you? " ... often it can be blaringly loud." Then find other music. Excessive volume is not required in music. Distortion is unwelcome. "One time I saw a solo guitarist and I remember the experience to be very emotional and the guitar strings plucking were great." Well, that's a start. "I'll take what you've said to careful consideration but to anybody, admitedly its certainly difficult and time consuming to find that perfect sound." You don't need "perfect sound". People who know how to listen are hearing far more through equipment of far less calibre than what you presently own. Learn to listen through the system, not to the system. The best overall advice? Get the midrange right. "Any tips for room enhancement if this is such a contributing factor?" The room is what you hear. No matter what speakers or electronics you bring home, they will sound like your room. My comments regarding room treatments are scattered throughout the forum. There is an entire section devoted to room treatments in the "Accessories" category. Begin by placing "WASP speaker placement" in a search engine. Do the same with "subwoofer placement". Stop buying. Learn to hear. . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8027 Registered: Dec-04 | And let the music be your guide. JJ, I have been moved nearly to tears by Verdi and Mozart on a system that was cheap but effective. It let me move beyond the boxes and remotes,and to really feel and appreciate the magic of the music. But I am a Gearhead at heart, and I envy anyone who can live and breathe the music as a language of pure love. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godDoncaster, South Yorkshire England Post Number: 552 Registered: Jan-05 | Thank you Jan. I currently dont have any stands as of yet. So I will have to wait to appreciate any good room placement since they're on the floor right now  I shall do the best with what I have and listen, just listen. I suppose I am a bit obsessed with gear, thinking about it I dont actually know why. When I had my cheapo cambridge soundworks fps1000 speakers I never ever considered the speakers. I always listened to music. I tend to compare what I hear in this system to that system because its the music I remember. I appreciate the sense talk, I think any future posts by myself regarding equipment, will be how I think it produces music from demo-ing it or/and then having bought it. Thats an interesting story Nuck. I cant say I've been drawn to tears by music, yet! I'll have a look at the WASP idea. Then I'll listen, despite how good my system is or not. p.s. Im not picky here, graphite metallic black stands or gloss black stands? I dont like choosing this kind of thing, just as long as its not silver. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godDoncaster, South Yorkshire England Post Number: 553 Registered: Jan-05 | Jan. Ive figured it out. I tilted my speakers in to make listening optimal. But this isnt it.. I imagined the band playing on stage. Everything fit in place then. Its quite amazing how putting in mind and imagining the band like that really lets the music flow. It's like theres a mini equivalent of the band right there. Thank you? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10881 Registered: May-04 | . Close to the floor placement works with many small speakers. Get the enclosures off the floor a few inches and tilt the speaker back to aim the tweeter at your ears when listening. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godDoncaster, South Yorkshire England Post Number: 554 Registered: Jan-05 | They're each on a few books. I'm not exactly sure how to prop them up I think I'll put a cd case or two under the front |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 564 Registered: May-06 | WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 No, do not put hollow plastic under speakers, EVER! Wood, books, how about paper? Fold some newspaper under the front. Don't worry about aesthetics. Heck look at my bamboo and toothpick tripod speaker risers. (Music Selection for Speaker Guys thread) That's when you should start worrying about aesthetics. |
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Gold Member Username: KanoBC Canada Post Number: 1211 Registered: Oct-04 | I was in the local audio shop picking up some longer interconnects, and was checking out the display set-up. Audio note speakers on milk crates. Sacrilege? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10886 Registered: May-04 | . High end organic milk from pasture fed cows, milk crates I hope. |
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