Upcoming new speaker from Ascend
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 2025 Registered: Feb-04 | I was expecting to find an on-going discussion here about the upcoming new Ascend speakers, the Sierra-1. http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2 I guess all we know about them so far is the black piano finish. Not much to talk about. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 561 Registered: Apr-06 | Well from an aesthetic standpoint, its a step up for their products at least. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7287 Registered: Dec-04 | Stephen, could it NOT be a step up in appearance? Eddie and Quinn hang out there, more for the one brand purist, really. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 562 Registered: Apr-06 | They could have stuck with the same old matte black that everyone so loves. Of course I'm still a fan of real wood, but ohh well. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7289 Registered: Dec-04 | We shall wait for reviews... |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 148 Registered: Aug-05 | "Eddie and Quinn hang out there, more for the one brand purist, really." Eddie hasn't made a post on the Ascend forum in many months. I'm on nearly every board not just the Ascend board. Here and Ascend are the only places I'm Quinn. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 564 Registered: Apr-06 | I guess the wood finish has been taken care of. The cabinets are made of bamboo, so they offer a natural finish as well. The accelerometer readings & impulse response look very promising if nothing else. http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?p=22500#post22500 |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 2026 Registered: Feb-04 | Price is out, and product is almost shipping: Our introductory price for a pair of Sierra-1's is $858 + $26 shipping for piano-black, $798 + shipping for natural. The piano-black center is $438 + $20 shipping, while the natural center is $408 + $20 shipping http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=2601&page=1&pp=40 |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7314 Registered: Dec-04 | Who is gonna pony up the first grand? |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 571 Registered: Apr-06 | Sadly, I'm quite content with my Emmas, not to mention short of a spare grand. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4771 Registered: Feb-05 | Go ahead Nuck, if you buy ten sets I'm sure you'll get a discount and you'll have the added bonus of sending out a few pairs to friends... ! |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1023 Registered: Oct-04 | If Ascend can get $800+ for the Sierras, more power to them, personally I'd hold off to hear the X-LS SWG. The X-LS SWG ($399-$479) will cost less than half the price of these new Ascends, and will look infinitely better. They'll feature a fancy new Peerless tweeter and Emma'ish XBL^2 driver. On the other hand, the Ascends are built in the USA (I think?), whereas AV123 just opened a new factory in Columbia. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 572 Registered: Apr-06 | I think they might be assembled in the US, but I think cabinets are made in Asia. Either way, the Sierra has a lot of potential behind it inasmuch as it gets a lot of technicalities right. How that translates into overall sound remains to be seen of course. |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 149 Registered: Aug-05 | I ordered mine should be here by the end of next week. I'll have to see about getting together with Marc after I get them broken in and let him post his comments. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7321 Registered: Dec-04 | Excellent, Quinn. Looking forward to that. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1024 Registered: Oct-04 | The pics I've seen of the new X-LS finishes have been nothing short of stunning, that along with the improved tweeter/driver combo, and Danny Richie's know how, should make this THE premier, "Giant Killer" bookshelf on the market. And please, to anyone considering purchasing these speakers, we do not need to go through the ritual of posting pics of the UPS truck pulling up, you unboxing, unwrapping, and setting up your speakers. This seems to be the SOP of members over at AV123's message board. Dozens & dozens of threads of cardboard boxes being opened, along with the VERY defensive posture many members/customers take in the slightest criticism of AV123, gives that board a more than slight cultish feel. Bogota isn't near Jonestown, is it? Nuck, I know you've been loosing sleep waiting for my review of the C-V! CLS-6, well you're just going to have to wait a bit longer. I received the C-V!s but have not, and still don't have the time to hook them up. I did open the boxes, and they are solid, tough looking speakers. Regardless of what they sound like I think I'll keep them (for $70, how could I not?), I'm sure they'll look & work well in a garage or home gym, now I just need to buy a house with a garage or home gym. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7324 Registered: Dec-04 | The 70$ CV's didn't come with a gym?!?! Send 'em back. Did they come with a brass pole? JK Post when you run them, Chris. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7325 Registered: Dec-04 | As for the X-LS, the import to Nuckland is brutal. I may try them, after seeing some un-biased reviews.(what is that)? |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 150 Registered: Aug-05 | "... Danny Richie's know how, should make this THE premier, "Giant Killer" bookshelf on the market." You should read the DIY speaker boards as Danny's know how gets mixed review. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1029 Registered: Oct-04 | Quinn, can you point me to one of those threads? I do a fair amount of scouring of audio boards, DIY and otherwise, but I've yet to read a bad word about Danny or GR Research. What's the main criticism? |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1030 Registered: Oct-04 | Nuck, you familiar with the Axiom M22? I've not heard any Axioms, but it's a pretty damn good looking speaker, with plenty of finish options at a excellent price. I've read several glowing reviews, but what else would you expect. |
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New member Username: Silversurfer2Post Number: 3 Registered: May-05 | "If Ascend can get $800+ for the Sierras, more power to them, personally I'd hold off to hear the X-LS SWG. The X-LS SWG ($399-$479) will cost less than half the price of these new Ascends, and will look infinitely better. They'll feature a fancy new Peerless tweeter and Emma'ish XBL^2 driver. On the other hand, the Ascends are built in the USA (I think?), whereas AV123 just opened a new factory in Columbia." Personally, I have not heard an XBL^2 midwoof that has great upper mid detail or transients. Most point to high inductance as the reason for this. If you read the AV123 boards, there have been reports of cracks on X-LS veneers at the screws. Also, I suggest reading about de-forestation in Columbia before praising the opening of a factory there. Before you fall into "Peerless" driver bandwagon, you should make sure which Peerless they speak of. This plays on the ignorance of the average consumer. The X-LS has proven to be a great speaker at its pricepoint, there is no doubt there, but to call it a giant killer is a stretch. The SWG is not even out yet, nobody has heard it, or understand the philosophy or its goals....or Danny's goals when it comes to sound. That said, I think it is refreshing that Ascend has clearly posted the sound they are going after and that is "no colorization". Then again, it is also yet to be seen if the Sierra is a giant killer, and that type of sound may not be everyone's cup of tea. You got to love these threads when folks want to poopoo on one speaker and hype another. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1031 Registered: Oct-04 | Did it sound like I was praising a US manufacturer for moving to Colombia, because if it did, then I need to work on my sarcasm. I take it you don't think much of my heads-up on the X-LS SWG, after all, you don't know me, and this message board might not be the proper time & place to discuss speakers, and I might not know what I'm talking about, and perhaps I don't, but neither you nor I know what the SWG or Sierra will sound like, and only have their manufacturers reputations & descriptions to go by. So having said that, it would be prudent to hold off purchasing either until some independent reviews start rolling in, but I continue to expect good things from AV123. I also take it your not a fan of AV123, and that's OK, I don't own a share of their company or even a pair of their speakers, but I have followed their progress over the last several years, and trust that they are trying to raise the bar, and must be doing something right given the legions of fans & tons of glowing reviews. I was unaware of any production problems they've had with their rain forest destroying real wood veneers (Ascends doesn't have that problem do they?), but thanks for pointing that out. I would think that AV123 would want to get on top of that ASAP. I noted the Peerless tweeter, because that's what it's described as, and whether it's built in India or by Realistic in a sweat-shop in Thailand, I expect it to be good, as I expect the new mid/woofer to be good, XBL^2 and all, because if it isn't it won't sell, and that's not good business, and from what I can tell Mark & Co. at AV123 are good businessmen. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 573 Registered: Apr-06 | Theoretically, AV123 uses plantation grown trees for their veneer, so they aren't causing massive deforestation. As far as the XBL2, I have no complaints with it in the implementation of my speakers. As far as Ascend going for no colorization with the Sierra, thats nothing new. However, not all designers would agree with some of Daves goals, including the ultra wide dispersion in both a vertical and horizontal orientation, which will no doubt lead to massive amounts of early reflections in the typical untreated listening room. As far as the bamboo cabinet, its neat, but it remains to see how practical it is given the difficulty of working the material, and it will be interesting to see how much better it really is than standard well braced 1" thick MDF. In any event, I'd be interested to hear both AV123 and Ascend speakers if the opportunity presented itself, if nothing else, because hi-fi is a fun hobby like that. |
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New member Username: Silversurfer2Post Number: 4 Registered: May-05 | A few things: Goals aside, at least Ascend chooses to state their's. With the Sierra, I am not sure the issue is ultra wide dispertion as it is symmetrical. No one said the goals were new. There are a lot of things that are not good and sell. To my knowledge, there are no plantation tree farms in Columbia. There are many reasons to setup a speaker factory in Columbia, being environmentally concious is not one of them. Again, I ask you to do the research, instead of re-iterating marketing. I understand the skepticism, but lets show it as a two way street. "So having said that, it would be prudent to hold off purchasing either until some independent reviews start rolling in, but I continue to expect good things from AV123." And that is your right, but it also seems like you do not want to give Ascend credit, or think of AV123 as the holy grail. When is the SWG due out? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7326 Registered: Dec-04 | I take it you don't think much of my heads-up on the X-LS SWG, after all, you don't know me, and this message board might not be the proper time & place to discuss speakers-CM Well goshers, if not here, then where? For the number of speaker boxes made, in Columbia or elsewhere, who gives a ratsass where the wood comes from? Gee, trees coming down in Colombia? Do the drug lords know about this? Nuke the whales and gimme good speakers for cheap. CM, my only listening to the Axiom m22's was under less then ideal circumstances, so the opinion is moot. |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 151 Registered: Aug-05 | Interesting googling on deforestation in Columbia- "Colombia's forests account for 49 percent of its total land mass and 10 percent of the world's biodiversity, making it the second most biodiverse country in the world in terms of species per land unit. Yet the country is experiencing large-scale deforestation due to its ambitious plans to develop its economy in order to become a competitive trade partner in the international market. Between 1.5 to 2.2 million acres are deforested each year and, at this rate, Colombia's woodlands will be depleted in forty years. Such deforestation has increased the rate of extinction for many plant and animal species, many of which are endemic to the country. Furthermore, the social and economic fabrics of indigenous peoples who inhabit the forests are rapidly being destroyed...." http://www.american.edu/TED/coldefor.htm There are classic rows between Danny and Rick Craig on audioasylum. I'll have to search up the big dust up on the speaker builder board from a few months ago regarding the measurements of Danny's last driver. |
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New member Username: Silversurfer2Post Number: 5 Registered: May-05 | "For the number of speaker boxes made, in Columbia or elsewhere, who gives a ratsass where the wood comes from? Gee, trees coming down in Colombia? Do the drug lords know about this?" Well, like all things, if you do not know or understand the issues, you won't care one way or another. And apparently, the drug lords are part of it. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 2027 Registered: Feb-04 | I noted the Peerless tweeter, because that's what it's described as, and whether it's built in India or by Realistic in a sweat-shop in Thailand, I expect it to be good Still, you noted the Peerless driver. "Peerless India" doesn't mean the same thing as the "Peerless" plant in India. Established in 1977 as a joint venture between Peerless Fabrikkerne A/S (Denmark) and Damodar Ratha to manufacture high-end drivers, Peerless India became an independent company in 1983.} |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 574 Registered: Apr-06 | "To my knowledge, there are no plantation tree farms in Columbia." And you are the expert of all things Columbia I'm sure. If AV123 states they use plantation grown trees, then I'm willing to believe them until shown otherwise. As far as research, if you are trying to disprove what AV123 states, the burden of proof would be on you, not me. As far as the dispersion, Dave ensured that it is symettrical, and believes that will be a plus. However, it also has wide dispersion as implied by the measurements he has provided (unless you want to believe that all dispersion will stop at 15 degrees), and that could be problematic for many listening rooms. In addition, the value of symetrical output is questionable for what he stated, inasmuch as the majority of listening rooms will negate the benefit of it. In any event, proof is in the pudding, so I'm happy to wait to hear it. And FWIW in regards to the rain forests, speaker construction doesn't really take a heck of a lot of wood. A thin veneer times maybe 500 speakers a month (and thats being pretty darned generous for a company that largely only internet savy audiophiles really know about) accounts for probably 10 trees. If they have one plantation and an account with a shipping company, I'm sure they can manage to get by. |
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New member Username: Silversurfer2Post Number: 6 Registered: May-05 | Lets see, you will take what AV123 says about their use of plantation grown trees, yet you question symmetrical output with no technical evidence. Do you think the output of your voice is vertically symmetrical? How about that of a trumpet? Guitar? a bird? I did not buy into symmetrical claims until I thought about real life sound sources. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 575 Registered: Apr-06 | I am curious on something though. For the Ascend fans that are now spouting the latest marketing literature about how bamboo is a renewable resource and how they are so loving to the environment, how environmentally friendly are you? Drive a hybrid or electric car? Ride a bike? Plant trees on the weekend? I'm just curious if this newfound love of mother earth is a load of bs or not. |
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New member Username: Silversurfer2Post Number: 8 Registered: May-05 | Well...it isn't so much about mother earth as it is about marketing and what you choose to buy into and why. For that matter, I am looking into a hybrid, but more so because of gas prices!  |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 576 Registered: Apr-06 | "Lets see, you will take what AV123 says about their use of plantation grown trees, yet you question symmetrical output with no technical evidence" AV123 can easily prove if they have a plantation at their disposal or not. If they have one, case closed; if not, then they're liars and charlatans and all that evil stuff. Now Dave feeling that more symmetrical output being better is fine. It is theoretically accurate. However, there is as of yet no demonstrable proof of its superiority over a speaker that has only "very good" or "average" vertical symmetry. Now speaking of real life, what happens to those sound waves when they hit the ceiling? Well that depends on what the ceiling is made of. What happens when the sound wave hits the floor? Well that depends too. What if they are not the same materials? Well you still end up with two waves that are completely different from each other. Thus, I question whether a 1dB difference versus say, 3 or 4, will make a huge difference. When I hear it and say "wow, that sounds like real life", then I'll quiet down; until then, I'll ask. I asked it to Dave himself on AVS, unfortunately that thread got shut down for being a marketing thread. I might e-mail him, but I am a lazy, lazy man, and I'm not realy in the market for speakers, so I might not. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 577 Registered: Apr-06 | "Well...it isn't so much about mother earth as it is about marketing and what you choose to buy into and why. " I'm sure the fact that SVS is made in Ohio had an impact on my decision to go with them over Hsu, for what thats worth |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 152 Registered: Aug-05 | Okay, I found the big to do about Danny's latest driver over on Audio circle. Apparently, the original stuff about it at Zaph Audio is gone. http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=37859.0 Can't believe I've forgotten the classic spats between Brian Cheney and Danny too. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 578 Registered: Apr-06 | PS: FWIW, I don't really have a huge interest in either Ascend or AV123. I'm sure both put out excellent products, and I think the Sierra has a lot of promise from what has been shown. However, I'm over the flavor of the month BS, and the little, "instead of being being accurate to within 0.75 dB, we are accurate to within 0.74dB!!!" games that some companies like to play. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 579 Registered: Apr-06 | And upon further pondering... "Do you think the output of your voice is vertically symmetrical? How about that of a trumpet? Guitar? a bird? I did not buy into symmetrical claims until I thought about real life sound sources." My voice? No. The different geometries of my upper and lower teeth, plus the rest of my body would likely prevent that. Trumpet? Maybe, albeit not perfect (little is in nature). A bird? No. The bird's body will affect it to some extent. A guitar? No, same reason as the bird. |
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New member Username: Silversurfer2Post Number: 9 Registered: May-05 | Have you measured them? I think what you metioned about your teeth and bird's body will have little effect. How about cymbals, drums, bass guitar? |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 580 Registered: Apr-06 | "Have you measured them?" Have you? "I think what you metioned about your teeth and bird's body will have little effect. " Good for you. I think that the Sierra having improved vertical symmetry will have little effect for my listening. We are all entitled to our thoughts I suppose. "How about cymbals, drums, bass guitar?" What about electric guitar? Electric bass? Those most certainly play a part in the music I listen to. But while we are on the subject of instruments... What happens if the player holds the guitar at an angle? Will that still have a vertically symmetrical output to the listener positioned straight ahead? |
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New member Username: Silversurfer2Post Number: 10 Registered: May-05 | I totally agree with all your questions. How do you correct portray all of those? What would you "rather" have? |
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Bronze Member Username: Silversurfer2Post Number: 11 Registered: May-05 | BTW, I am not trying to be combative. Just want to look at the positives rather than, "it doesn't mean anything". |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1032 Registered: Oct-04 | Nuck, Now, now, you know I wasn't speaking to you & the boys. ...and to the second Herald of Galactus, I like Ascends, I wish them all the best and hope they continue to produce quality products, especially the black ones, and I'm sure the Sierra will be an excellent speaker, as I am fairly certain the X-LS SWG will be an excellent speaker, you see, very few companies DON'T know what they're doing these days, so much so that even the low end stuff sounds pretty good, sometimes VERY good. And call me naive, but these days I'm much more concerned with dirty bombs & suitcase nukes than I am about the deforestation of South America. Perhaps AV123 customers can purchase some carbon-credits to off-set the eco-terrorism they've perpetrated on the indigenous people of the Amazon. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 581 Registered: Apr-06 | "How do you correct portray all of those?" Isn't really possible to portray much of anything accurately with the current state of the art. "What would you "rather" have?" Whichever sounds the most real to me. To find that out, I have to listen. If I get the chance to listen to the Sierra and I find it blows away my current speakers in that hard to define sense of palpability (which I find my current speakers to be excellent in), then perhaps I'll move on. But if not, I won't sweat it. In either case, I won't buy it over another speaker simply on the premise of its superior vertical symmetry. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 582 Registered: Apr-06 | "BTW, I am not trying to be combative. Just want to look at the positives rather than, "it doesn't mean anything"." There are plenty of positives about the Sierra. And who knows, the vertical symmetry could end up being something that makes a huge difference in people's perceptions of how it sounds; but given that nobody has heard it, as well as the simple fact that little data is available about how it will affect our perceptions in a real hi-fi in a real room, I'm not willing to make that judgment just yet. But, FWIW, it is my nature to be a bit cynical. Don't let me keep you from enjoying the release by any means. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1033 Registered: Oct-04 | Honest to God, what is it with some of these Internet speaker guys? This guy isn't first, and I'm sure he won't be the last. Some advice, if you're an AV123 sycophant, your wasting your time here, only a select few even know what MLS stands for. Similarly, if your a Ascend Acoustic cool-aid drinker, why ruin your day and let us non-believers rain on your parade? eCoustics is a pretty non-partisan place for audio-geeks, and aspiring audio-geeks, like myself, come to argue & pontificate about things most people, especially wives, couldn't care less about. Let's keep it that way. |
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Bronze Member Username: Silversurfer2Post Number: 12 Registered: May-05 | That's just it. You mention one internet company, and a fanboy mentions his favorite because he thinks they are better and has never heard a speaker from the other. Stephen, I agree, the proof is in the listening. |
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New member Username: RockheadPost Number: 1 Registered: May-07 | "whether it's built in India or by Realistic in a sweat-shop in Thailand, I expect it to be good, as I expect the new mid/woofer to be good, XBL^2 and all, because if it isn't it won't sell, and that's not good business" Have you ever heard of marketing? Bose sounds terrible to anyone experienced with audio but they sell more than anyone else. Maybe you should to compare that X-LS SWG to the Sierra from a parts standpoint? The Seas tweeter in the Sierra is a very nice one from high up the Seas line, the Seas tweeters in the other Ascend speakers are comparable to the Vifa XT tweeter in the Ref line. You better also budget for a $300 Skiingninja upgraded crossover to be comparable to the quality of the parts that Ascend is showing for the Sierra crossover. You might also want to look at the CSD(Cumulative Spectral Decay) graphs for both Danny Richie's GR Research M-165X, which seems the logical driver for the SWG. www.zaphaudio.com/6.5test/compare.html Then click on M-165X and choose CSD up top. And the Sierra's driver's CSD- http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=2600 If you do not know how to read these the lower the decay time the cleaner the driver. Decay time equals distortion. But, as many here have pointed out the Sierra has a lot of potential but no one has heard it yet to know if it is realized. Personally, I'm more interested in the prospect of a Sierra 2 if say 70% or better of the Sierra 1's potential is realized. A small floorstander that could possibly reach into the upper 20s, play clean, and hopefully throw up a big soundstage for maybe $1250 would really be something. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7328 Registered: Dec-04 | Welcome to ecoustics, Rockhead. Isn't the Q of the xbl2 a limiting factor in the enclosure size? A 'small' floorstander might open the midbass driver to lower frequencies, but at what tradeoff to the crossover point? If the designer is counting on an octave of rolloff to make the desired cross(depending on phase coherence) that sound like a bad idea. 2c |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 583 Registered: Apr-06 | "Maybe you should to compare that X-LS SWG to the Sierra from a parts standpoint?" Why? Speakers are much, much more than parts. "he Seas tweeter in the Sierra is a very nice one from high up the Seas line, the Seas tweeters in the other Ascend speakers are comparable to the Vifa XT tweeter in the Ref line." Its a customized $30 SEAS tweeter as shown on a thread on AVS. High up it ain't. "ou better also budget for a $300 Skiingninja upgraded crossover to be comparable to the quality of the parts that Ascend is showing for the Sierra crossover." Because I'm sure $300 of an $800 speaker is raw parts for the XO. "You might also want to look at the CSD(Cumulative Spectral Decay) graphs for both Danny Richie's GR Research M-165X, which seems the logical driver for the SWG." It is one logical choice, but likely not the only one. Speculation, while fun, is still speculation. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1035 Registered: Oct-04 | "That's just it. You mention one internet company, and a fanboy mentions his favorite because he thinks they are better and has never heard a speaker from the other." Honestly, who's the fanboy here? I suggest the X-LS SWG might be a an attractive choice for anyone considering the Sierra, and now it's a full-frontal assault by the Ascend Witnesses. "Have you ever heard of marketing? Bose sounds terrible to anyone experienced with audio but they sell more than anyone else." No, what's marketing? Enlighten me? So AV123 is simply marketing it's way onto all of those "Best Buy" & "Product of the Year" lists? Hold on, I need to call GM & Ford and let them know that's all they have to do to turn around the US auto industry. I find it interesting that silversufer2 & Rock Lover manifest out of thin air on the eCoustic board when, heaven forbid, someone dare suggest holding off an Ascends purchase if & until they get a chance to listen or read some reviews of the new AV123 speaker. Didn't Tim get a similar response a while back when he dared comment on an Ascends speaker? That time, it was by the owner! |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 584 Registered: Apr-06 | Well to be fair, Tim did what may have been a faulty measurement, and posted it on here. In the end though, they worked out their differences AFAIK. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1036 Registered: Oct-04 | Yes, I do seem to remember that. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 585 Registered: Apr-06 | I just personally like that when it comes to speakers that are more expensive, "they suck because they're overpriced" and they can find some measurement that is off by some insignificant amount; when it comes to speakers that are less expensive "they use cheap parts". |
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Bronze Member Username: Silversurfer2Post Number: 13 Registered: May-05 | "I find it interesting that silversufer2 & Rock Lover manifest out of thin air on the eCoustic board when, heaven forbid, someone dare suggest holding off an Ascends purchase if & until they get a chance to listen or read some reviews of the new AV123 speaker." You can say that for just about any purchase. FWIW, I do own Ascends and AV123 product, and have compared the CBM-170SE to the X-LS. There is no comparison between those two, and others have reported the same. I expect the SWG to offer the same performance to dollar ratio. The Ref 1 and SWG would be an interesting comparison. Check on the price of the Vifa tweeter used in the Ref. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4778 Registered: Feb-05 | "CBM-170SE to the X-LS" That doesn't say much for the X-LS...I'd be interested to hear a product that bad. Throwing together a bunch of high quality components does not a good speaker make...let's hope they are as good as you say and there will be a lot of happy (and unhappy competition) folks in the audio world. To be fair I never heard the SE version of the 170 but was not the least impressed with original. I guess that's why we have to buy what sounds good to our ears. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1856 Registered: May-05 | Why is it any time Ascend speakers are mentioned, this is what the thread becomes? We get all these people coming out of the woodwork defending anything Ascend like they're the be all, end all of speakers. Between the assclown owner and all his brainwashed devotees, I hate these speakers. The fact that I've heard them once in a neighbor's house and they sounded dull and lifeless has very little to do with my anti-Ascend passion, but it helps. And yes, that was before I knew you David's Witness guys existed, so my opinion of them wasn't biased at the time. David's loyal clones - This thread is a whole new level of low for you guys. Just when I thought you guys couldn't get any more closed minded, you start blindly defending a pair of speakers that no one's heard yet. Its like a Mormon cult. None of you can admit that something better can and does exist. The only way you'll admit that is if its priced no less than 5 times the Ascend price. Then you try to turn the tables and say the other product may be better, but its over priced crap next to Ascends. Its ok to love your speakers. For the most part everyone likes their speakers, or else they wouldn't have bought them. But your Ascend banter is about as enjoyable as Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons trying to argue and force you to see the only way - their way. Get over it and get over yourselves. In no way are you more intelligent than anyone or everyone else because you think you've found the holy grail. Ascends may be the last speakers you will ever need, but they certainly aren't the last word or pair of speakers for anyone else. Why waste everyone's time here? Go back to the Ascend forum and kiss each other's ases some more. David's proud of you guys trying to recuit new members, but it's not working here. You're driving people away from them. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1857 Registered: May-05 | Peter, No offence to you. I know you started the thread, but I don't think your intention was what these guys turned it into. Dak and Edster, If you're reading this, you're the only civil Ascend guys I've come across. No offence intended to you guys. |
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Bronze Member Username: PatrickbatemanMA Post Number: 62 Registered: Oct-05 | People have already bought, heard and reviewed the new Sierra's over at the ascend forum FIW. |
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Bronze Member Username: PatrickbatemanMA Post Number: 63 Registered: Oct-05 | FWIW |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7334 Registered: Dec-04 | You can bet Edster is reading this one, Stu. In whatever incarnation he has dreamed up lately. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1858 Registered: May-05 | One more thought - If the Ascend speakers were so perfect, why do need a 'New and Improved' model every year? In the three years I've known about them, they've unvieled an even better version every year, like clock work. How do improve perfection? Just wait 'till next year when the Sierra SE debuts! |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 586 Registered: Apr-06 | How is it that they can properly review a speaker that has been taking orders for roughly 48 hours? |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1859 Registered: May-05 | I'm on a roll here - Instead of buying a speaker from a guy who loves parts quality, measurements, and whatever other technical things go into designing a speaker, listen to a speaker who is designed by a person who loves music and its emotional content. Forget about all the meaningless things that look great on an ad or spec sheet. Specs and parts selection alone don't make a great speaker. Case in point, Totem Arros are horrible on paper. Their frequency response and lack of physical (not musical) weight surprised one reviewer in a not so good way. Their musicallity, tonal neutrality and real world sound and measurements went against everything the spec sheet told him. Designed and built by guys who love MUSIC, not specs. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1860 Registered: May-05 | "How is it that they can properly review a speaker that has been taking orders for roughly 48 hours?" They're far smarter than the rest of us. If you can't measure the effects of break-in, then it doesn't exist. Hence being able to fully evaluate a speaker you've had in your home less than 24 hours if you got overnight shipping and the delivery guy actually did his job. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7335 Registered: Dec-04 | Run with it Stuie. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1038 Registered: Oct-04 | I'm surprised Tawuan hasn't chimed in yet from wherever he is these days. |
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Bronze Member Username: PatrickbatemanMA Post Number: 64 Registered: Oct-05 | I believe the Ascend 170 debuted 7 years ago, and it was updated to the around SE two years ago. I dont think they are "new and improved" every year. And no, I do not own them. |
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Bronze Member Username: Silversurfer2Post Number: 14 Registered: May-05 | WOW! "One more thought - If the Ascend speakers were so perfect, why do need a 'New and Improved' model every year? In the three years I've known about them, they've unvieled an even better version every year, like clock work." You do not know very much about the history do you? Can you post a chronology for us? The Sierra is not a new version of any model in their line-up. The CBM-170 was on the market for 5 years before change, the 340SE about 2 years. Those changes happenned last year. What changes happened previous? New and improved is not something out of the ordinary for any company. There are many that do not like the Arros as well. Looks like a vendetta to me. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 587 Registered: Apr-06 | When did the 340 mains debut? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7339 Registered: Dec-04 | And how far behind were the SE's to correct that disaster? |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 588 Registered: Apr-06 | I ask, as that would make 4 flagships in their 7 year history, and it would be interesting to see the spread of new flagships. However, to play devils advocate, Ascend isn't an ultra-high end company, so there is obviously room for improvement with their models. However, the problem with the Ascend folks is they don't like to admit that. |
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Bronze Member Username: Silversurfer2Post Number: 15 Registered: May-05 | I'm slow. I think the 340's were out in 2004, with the SE update coming last year. Anyways, I come to Ecoustics to look for info. A lot more traffic at AVS, but you have get through the noise, but it looks like it is happening here too, and sometimes the info is really good without the noise. I actually usually just participate at Audioholics |
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Bronze Member Username: Silversurfer2Post Number: 16 Registered: May-05 | I'm slow. I think the 340's were out in 2004, with the SE update coming last year. Anyways, I come to Ecoustics to look for info. A lot more traffic at AVS, but you have get through the noise, but it looks like it is happening here too, and sometimes the info is really good without the noise. I actually usually just participate at Audioholics |
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Bronze Member Username: Silversurfer2Post Number: 17 Registered: May-05 | Stephen, how do you get 4 flagships in 7 years? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7340 Registered: Dec-04 | Hey, SS you don't have to ditch here just because you started(or helped) a kerfuffle. We have lots of room for views, and you are well prepared to defend yours, which is great. Like every forum, there are long term relationships built up here, and the 'cover your six' factor comes into play. No harm, no foul. |
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Bronze Member Username: Silversurfer2Post Number: 18 Registered: May-05 | Thanks Nuck. I guess I need to understand the history of viewpoints here better. I thought things were pretty even keeled, but there definitely seems to be some biases. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7343 Registered: Dec-04 | Some biases, yes, but a lot of listening as well. If you check each posters profiles, it gives a somewhat broader overview of the gear each has chosen(or been saddled with). That does not discount other experience, of course, that comes with regular discourse on any given topic. Welcome aboard! |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 589 Registered: Apr-06 | SS: 170, 340, 340SE, Sierra And to reiterate what Nuck says, just because we may not have the same ideals in speakers doesn't mean we wouldn't give you advice if you asked for it. I'm not going to hold a grudge against you by any stretch of the imagination. My feelings towards Ascend? Not much really. I think they put out fine products, but there is a lot of hype surrounding them, and whether you believe it or not, they have an extremely effective stealth marketing campaign. Why the heck else would people that are theoretically happy with their 340s suddenly jump ship to buy the Sierra the day it was released? That just isn't normal if you're extremely satisfied with the speakers you have currently, unless some other factor kicks in. |
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Bronze Member Username: Silversurfer2Post Number: 19 Registered: May-05 | I guess my attempt at being even handed came across wrong. Thanks Stephen...I guess I didn't think of 340SE as a brand new model. |
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New member Username: RockheadPost Number: 2 Registered: May-07 | "I find it interesting that silversufer2 & Rock Lover manifest out of thin air on the eCoustic board" I found this thread while doing an internet search on the Sierras. I can see this board is exclusive and not interested in what anyone has to add. SS looks to have registered 2 years ago. Goodbye. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4781 Registered: Feb-05 | Don't let the door hit you in the XXX! Exclusive...you can tell he hasn't been around here long. Generally this is a pretty welcoming board, that is if you don't come in here like you own the place. Many of the people here have been here for quite sometime and have strong opinions. It doesn't mean that everyone is close minded...keep in mind that the Ascend thing has been beaten to death here. Some folks like 'em, some folks don't, and some folks are in between, like me. What I'm not neutral about is the tactic taken by so many Ascend enthusiasts that their favored Ascends are THE giant killer and that all you have to do is look at the specs and graphs to see that...NOT! I use the specs on either side of my head to measure speakers. That's why I like Rega, Totem and a whole host of other speakers that won't hold a candle to Ascends in the measurement dept but that bury them in the music dept. I'll be here David F when you and your minions decide to swoop in and handle this thread. G'day! |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1040 Registered: Oct-04 | As previously stated somewhere in this thread, it just seems that any and all Ascends discussions devolve into what you've witnessed in this thread. Perhaps it's an eCoustic thing, but I find that hard to believe. Is it at all possible that the X-LS SWG might, just might be competetive with the Sierra, or Heavens to Betsy, even better? If anyone at this point in time, having not heard either, says absolutely NO, then you've drank cool-aid. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 590 Registered: Apr-06 | "I found this thread while doing an internet search on the Sierras." Unprovable, thus making you still somewhat suspect in the eyes of some. "I can see this board is exclusive and not interested in what anyone has to add." We'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on how they sound. We aren't interested in hearing marketing material about the Sierra however. In addition, in regards to your original post, nobody cares how much the parts cost in the Sierra. We care about the sound. If you want to compare parts costs, I obtained my speakers B-stock for 500 a pair. The woofers were $100 *each*, and the tweets 50 *each*. They have a lovely walnut veneer that certainly cost at least a few bucks for finishing, and a 3/4" thick, heavily braced cabinet that given its bookshelf size, probably doesn't have much in the way of a resonance problem, a nice set of high grade binding posts, and a crossover that looks very high grade. Nonetheless, I can accept the fact that they won't be everyones cup of tea, in spite of the apparent value in terms of parts. "SS looks to have registered 2 years ago." I don't have any issue with SS. However, while he may have registered here two years ago, the vast majority of his whopping 19 post count is on this very thread. As a result, I wouldn't consider him a "regular". "Goodbye." Bye. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7346 Registered: Dec-04 | I found this thread while doing an internet search on the Sierras. I can see this board is exclusive and not interested in what anyone has to add. SS looks to have registered 2 years ago. Goodbye. Well well. If an internet search landed you here for in-depth discussion, then the net must be thin on Sierra content, DF must not have released the hounds, or nobody gives a damn. You pick 'em. |
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Bronze Member Username: Silversurfer2Post Number: 20 Registered: May-05 | My first login name was silversurfer, but I lost the password and my email account changed, so I created "2". "Is it at all possible that the X-LS SWG might, just might be competetive with the Sierra, or Heavens to Betsy, even better? If anyone at this point in time, having not heard either, says absolutely NO, then you've drank cool-aid." Anything is possible, the question should be "is it likely?" You may very well like it better, and I would assume you will. Judging by your thoughts of Ascend chronology, you don't do the research before you post and you have an obvious bias. Kind of like the pot calling the kettle.... |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7348 Registered: Dec-04 | Show me the speakers to try. Until then, if my Aunt had balls she would be my uncle. |
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Bronze Member Username: Silversurfer2Post Number: 21 Registered: May-05 | Try all the ones that you think will do the job. |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 153 Registered: Aug-05 | LOL! This all is exactly why I said I'd try to get with Marc for him to listen and post his thoughts. I knew I'd get this kind of treatment and nobody here would listen to what I think about the Sierra. I don't think Rockhead had any idea what he was getting into. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1041 Registered: Oct-04 | "Anything is possible, the question should be "is it likely?" You may very well like it better, and I would assume you will." While I am partial to rainforest depleting exotic wood veneers & high-gloss, toxic-fume emitting finishes, I, unlike some, will reserve judgement until the reviews start rolling in and am motivated to audition one, or both, of these speakers. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7352 Registered: Dec-04 | I don't understand, Quinn. I am waiting for some members to post listening experiences on the Sierra. The AV123 product as well. It is, well, speakers area, is it not? Everyone please post all opinions, especially after trying the speaks. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 591 Registered: Apr-06 | "LOL! This all is exactly why I said I'd try to get with Marc for him to listen and post his thoughts. I knew I'd get this kind of treatment and nobody here would listen to what I think about the Sierra. " Come on Quinn, where has anybody actually posted results of *listening* on this thread, let alone any kind of reasonable informal review. This thread has gotten somewhat heated, but I don't think anyone would scoff at you if you posted results of what you thought of the Sierra. We might not all agree, but thats life. |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 154 Registered: Aug-05 | You can go to the Ascend Forum, forum.ascendacoustics.com , and read what the guys that live in LA and were able to pick up Sierras on Friday are saying. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 592 Registered: Apr-06 | Quinn: Indeed I can and have (for what they're worth), but that has little to do with *this* thread. Random people coming on this thread in defense of Ascend products at the mention of AV123 is what I think irritates people here. This is particularly the case when they parrot the Ascend marketing literature without in some cases knowing what it actually means. For example, trying to imply that AV123 is some evil company because they might be chopping down the rainforest (for which there is no evidence, and the AV123 site specifically contradicts to some degree) is at least somewhat shady. Trying to compare parts pricing is just plain asnine. As a result, some of the Ascend fans got a bit of a rebuttal, some of which may have not been particularly kind. Now, if *you*, who we know, and at least know your tastes to some degree, post a review of the Sierra with at least some attempt at being objective, and including a few side by side comparisons if possible, then I for one would read it. If Marc does the same, I'll read what he has to say. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1042 Registered: Oct-04 | "Random people coming on this thread in defense of Ascend products at the mention of AV123 is what I think irritates people here." You couldn't be more right Stephen. I'm glad Ascends is trying to up the ante with the Sierra, it looks very promising, and despite my tongue in cheek comments above, I do like the idea of using bamboo cabinets. I saw these |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 155 Registered: Aug-05 | The Ascend guys got taken to task for for their posts yet the guy that interjected an unreleased product from another company gets a free pass. You see why I'm reluctant to post my opinion once I receive the Sierras? |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1043 Registered: Oct-04 | "The Ascend guys got taken to task for for their posts yet the guy that interjected an unreleased product from another company gets a free pass. You see why I'm reluctant to post my opinion once I receive the Sierras?" A free pass? For what, suggesting that I have high hopes for an upcoming product and that it might be competitive with the Sierra? Yeah, that ought to fully warrant a thrashing. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 593 Registered: Apr-06 | I can see your point to a degree Quinn. However, there are one or two differences to note. Perhaps the most important is simply that Chris isn't some random guy. He's a fairly well established member here. That alone will give him a little more leeway than someone with 1 post. Also, while his post may not have been entirely accurate on all levels (the looks thing for example is subjective, and I think the Ascend speaker looks as good as any), and it certainly consisted of a bit of hype, it didn't try to engage in petty comparisons or spread (even if it is unintentional) misinformation about a company's business practices. He simply stated that he would wait for both to be on the market before he made a decision, which in reality might be a prudent choice. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1044 Registered: Oct-04 | I went back and read my original post, and it does read a little too glowingly for a product I know little about, but I was simply trying to make the point that it might be prudent to wait & see. And to be entirely fair, I did not know the Sierras would be offered in that natural bamboo finish, which I do think is quite handsome, maybe not as nice IMHO as the woods from AV123, but infinitely better than black, once again IMHO. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7354 Registered: Dec-04 | So the wood comes from 'cultivated' forestation, eh? Well with very little Arborism in my backbround, I am fairly sure that these trees do not mature in a year, even two. If they did, the whole 'eco' thing would be full of crape. In fact, it is anyhow, the response will be that the company bought from an established tree farm, and in that neck of the woods, outside Cartajana(sp), I would not bet on ANYTHING being as labelled, OK? Tastes like chicken. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 594 Registered: Apr-06 | Certainly trees do not mature in 1-2 years, but how much actual wood is used for the veneer of speakers, keeping in mind that it is at best one or two millimeters thick. Then keep in mind that we aren't talking about the biggest speaker company in the world. They put out maybe 500-1000 speakers a month. Thats maybe 10 or 20 trees total needed per month. Now consider how big a farm can be. Fifty square miles can hold a heck of a lot of trees... If used in a manner that is intelligent, it could easily supply a speaker company. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 2028 Registered: Feb-04 | Are we still talking about bamboo? "Bamboo (CAYA GUADUA ANGUSTIFOLIA) is a renewable and sustainable resource. It has a high growth speed, reporting growths of up to 10 cm per day; reaching its maximum height (30 meters) in 6 months." |
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Bronze Member Username: CurtisManhattan Beach, CA Post Number: 48 Registered: May-04 | Hi All....please don't let this turn into AVS. Some of you know me from AVS and other forums, I also help moderate Ascends' own forum. As you can see, I do not post here much at all. I was one of the two guys that got some Sierras on Friday, had a friend over this past weekend for a listen, and posted some pictures and impressions. I have heard a lot of bookshelf type speakers, as well as some mentioned in this thread, all the Ascends, X-LS, X-LS EX (prototype), Ref 1, VR-1's, Ushers, Dalis, it goes on. If you have any questions, I would be happy to answer, but I think most of it is posted over at the Ascend Forum. |
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Bronze Member Username: CurtisManhattan Beach, CA Post Number: 49 Registered: May-04 | BTW, I tried to log in earlier over the weekend, but I could not remember my logon name! |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 595 Registered: Apr-06 | Hey Curtis. I'm Stefano-M over at AVS, so you may recognize me. I like to butt into things, what can I say. Anyways, I know its been discussed that they are clearer and tighter than past Ascend products. Are there any major changes in imaging/soundstaging? I'd be curious to hear a pair to compare to my speakers. Mind you I'm not in a position to buy a pair, but as always, its for fun, and possibly future reference. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7358 Registered: Dec-04 | The links are handy, but we need fresh observations over here, on ecoustics, as some of us have been booted from avs for being honest. |
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Bronze Member Username: CurtisManhattan Beach, CA Post Number: 50 Registered: May-04 | Hey Stephen....or should I say Stefano? In regards to imaging, things seem to be more focused across the soundstage. As for the soundtage itself, I don't have a big room, but it is every bit as big as the 340SE's, if not bigger. I have not done much A/B comparison other than a few songs when a friend was over, just been enjoying them. More transparent....that along with deeper extension and the punchiness seem to be the things that I like most over the 340SE. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 596 Registered: Apr-06 | Stephen or Steve works well enough. Any weaknesses as compared with the 340s? It is interesting that a single 5" has superior extension, punchiness, etc than dual 6.5s, so I'm curious if and where that might manifest itself, beyond the measly 3dB drop in sensitivity. |
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Bronze Member Username: CurtisManhattan Beach, CA Post Number: 51 Registered: May-04 | So far, no weaknesses that I can tell. I was worried about the center channel (Sierra on its side, tweeter rotated), but so far, the soundstage for the little TV/movie watching I have done so far has been excellent. The surround on that 5.25" woofer is large. So far, in my room, with no sub, I notice no deficiencies. I have not felt the need to integrate the sub as of yet. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1045 Registered: Oct-04 | I'm exerciseguy over @ AVS, As someone who has actually listened to the Sierra, I'm glad you chimed in Curtis. I do not know the extent of your relationship with Ascend Acoustics, but are you free to comment however you see fit regarding their products? To your ear, is their a similarity between the Sierra and any other speakers you've heard? Is there an Ascends characteristic present here? How close does this product come in your estimation to achieving the objective of "No Coloration"? |
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Bronze Member Username: CurtisManhattan Beach, CA Post Number: 52 Registered: May-04 | ahhh...exerciseguy!! Cool! Thanks for the welcome. My relationship with Ascend is as a customer, and I volunteer moderate their forum. It also doesn't hurt that I live 15-20 minutes away. As for a similar speaker? I feel the 340 and Ref 1 are similar....and I get some crap for that, but it is honestly how I feel. So if we are talking in the same family, I would say the Ref 1, but I have never done a side by side. I have done a side by side of the older 340's and Ref 1. Certainly, no product is the end all, but at the risk of being called a fanboy, I would love to compare the Sierra to anything. Chris, what was the name of that "high-end" bookshelf speaker we heard in Austin? |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 156 Registered: Aug-05 | "Chris, what was the name of that "high-end" bookshelf speaker we heard in Austin?" JM Reynaud Offrandes. I believe they were $5K. Does the Sierra bass compete with those? I think that the Offrandes transmission line design takes them to around 30Hz? I want to know how they match up to the Escalante Junipers, which were my favorite thing I heard THE/CES this year. Err, make that second after Andrew Jones' TADs. |
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Bronze Member Username: CurtisManhattan Beach, CA Post Number: 53 Registered: May-04 | I certainly would like to compare them to the JM Reynauds, for $5K, they did not seem liek a great deal to me. Yes, the Escalantes sounded nice, but I have bad memories of that room because I think that is where I left all my demo discs!! |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1046 Registered: Oct-04 | "Certainly, no product is the end all, but at the risk of being called a fanboy, I would love to compare the Sierra to anything." Curtis, we all have our favorites, and I feel comfortable saying nobody that haunts this board, to the best of my knowledge, has any problem with that (if they did, I would have been run out of here years ago!). But if you follow the ebb & flow of the way this thread developed, you can see that most here don't take too kindly to proselytizing. A Sierra vs Reference 1 showdown would be fine with me, but I would like to know what you think of the speaker I suggested might be worth the wait, the X-LS SWG, when it becomes available. Have you seen any AV123 products produced in Columbia yet? |
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Bronze Member Username: Silversurfer2Post Number: 22 Registered: May-05 | I have heard the X-LS and the X-LS EX prototype. ALthough I do not know what factory the X-LS was from. I have actually heard three different X-LS's, two that were supposeded stock, and each pair sounded different. Also as mentioned by before, the owners mentioned cracks at the screws, although I did not bother to look. These owners also preferred the sound of the CBM-170SE. It is actually documented on the AV123 sight. I also heard the "EX" prototype about a month later. Much more to my liking. Still different than the 170SE, but closer in sound, and I can understand people preferring one or the other. I don't know what to think of the SWG. No one has heard it or and I have not read what the advantages may be. To all those that I may have offended, I apologize and want to make sure I get off on the right foot. |
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Bronze Member Username: CurtisManhattan Beach, CA Post Number: 54 Registered: May-04 | Hmmmm...I think I know who silversurfer is now. Anyways, my thoughts pretty much concur with his, but I would add a couple of things..... The EX and CBM-170SE are pretty close in sound. I the EX has more bass extension, while I think the 170SE has more extended highs and a tad more detail in the mids. I have also had a pair of X-LS's in my home, but those were from the China factory. Christopher, can you point to more info on the SWG? |
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Bronze Member Username: CurtisManhattan Beach, CA Post Number: 55 Registered: May-04 | BTW....silversurfer, if you are who I think you are, you are more than welcome to send me an email and come over for a listen to the Sierras. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4784 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks Curtis for giving us some first hand info on the Sierra's. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1047 Registered: Oct-04 | This is just about all there is about the X-LS SWG If you are unfamiliar with the XBL^2 motor here's some company info to bring you up to speed: http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/XBL2TechPaper.pdf http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/XBL2DetailsPaper.pdf |
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Bronze Member Username: CurtisManhattan Beach, CA Post Number: 57 Registered: May-04 | Art, you are more than welcome. In the past few days I have been accused of hyping and fanboyism by a B&M dealer on AVS. I would rather the speakers do the talking for themselves. I just realized that I have seen a X-SLS from the Colombia factory. Rosewood I think...absolutely gorgeous finish. |
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Bronze Member Username: CurtisManhattan Beach, CA Post Number: 58 Registered: May-04 | Thanks Christopher...I have read those links before. I am also quite familiar with Hsu VTF-3HO subwoofer that uses XBL^2 technology, and have talk to Dr. Hsu about it, as well as two other speaker engineers familiar with the technology. As mentioned earlier in this thread...the use of the Peerless name in the SWG link is interesting. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4785 Registered: Feb-05 | It's nice to hear info from folks who are genuinely pleased with their systems and aren't hyping. I'm not in the market myself at this time as I am one of those folks who is very happy with my system. |
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Bronze Member Username: CurtisManhattan Beach, CA Post Number: 59 Registered: May-04 | I understand wholeheartedly...I was one of them, until I heard the new speaker. It's hobby, and you want to see people happy. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7360 Registered: Dec-04 | NOW I remember you Curtis...you responded to a email 2 years back. Thanks for your input. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1048 Registered: Oct-04 | Curtis, did you get the natural bamboo finish? Will you try the Sierras with a sub anytime soon? |
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Bronze Member Username: CurtisManhattan Beach, CA Post Number: 60 Registered: May-04 | Yes, I got the natural bamboo. Yes, I will probably mess with sub integration more this weekend. http://changpics.smugmug.com/photos/153975595-M.jpg http://changpics.smugmug.com/photos/153975642-M.jpg http://changpics.smugmug.com/photos/154281688-M.jpg http://changpics.smugmug.com/photos/153975538-M.jpg |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 1049 Registered: Oct-04 | Please post your Sierra/Sub impressions when you can. |
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Bronze Member Username: CurtisManhattan Beach, CA Post Number: 61 Registered: May-04 | BTW...if any of you are in the Los Angeles area and would like a listen, drop me a line. |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 158 Registered: Aug-05 | Mine arrived this morning. I'm impressed with the bass out of these. I've got to take the kids to the pool so I've got them on the trance/trip-hop satellite station and cranked to 11 to open them up while I'm gone. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7431 Registered: Dec-04 | Let us know, Quinn! |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 159 Registered: Aug-05 | Didn't have a lot of time today. Here a copy and paste job of what I posted on the Ascend forum. "My observations are kind of all over the place so far. It has been a busy day without much sit down critical listening. Demanding detailed pieces are where, to me, the Sierras shine. Remember when you got your Ascends and went through all your music again rediscovering it and all the things you never heard before on familiar discs? That is what it is like for detailed demanding pieces. Then for simple stuff the imaging, sound stage, and bass are what you notice most. But, then I played some of the Jewel concert, just her and her guitar for the most part, I have in HD on the DVR and it was like holy crap that was amazing compared to listening to it just 2 or 3 nights ago on the 340s. The Fairfield Four's Standing in the Safety Zone was the disc that impressed me the most today for what the Sierra can do. The four part harmonies had more separation of the individual voices and the depth of the timbre, that I had not been hearing before, was captivating on the Sierras. Oh and the Sierras can play LOUD with no strain. I started to worry if I was going to run into clipping." |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 172 Registered: Nov-06 | Hi Quinn- You are welcome to bring over the new speakers if want and hook em up through any of my systems. I'd be happy to hear em as well. |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 160 Registered: Aug-05 | Marc- I'll drop you an e-mail as I'm out of town the next 2 weekends. Maybe I can leave them with you one of those weekends. |
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Bronze Member Username: CurtisManhattan Beach, CA Post Number: 62 Registered: May-04 | "Please post your Sierra/Sub impressions when you can." Chris, I have some time with the sub and without the sub. I use a Hsu VTF-3.3/turbo. With the sub in place and crossed at 60hz, the sound loses a bit of its punch/definition...of course there is much more extension when called for...but that is rare. Integration is seamless, and was fairly easy. At this point, the use of the subwoofer is a toss-up. If I had a pre/pro that was a bit more flexible, I would probably not use the Hsu for music...and I thought I would never feel that way. I would like to try a JLA Fathom or a Rhythmik kit. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7436 Registered: Dec-04 | I sampled the JLA Fathom(a bit) a while back, and it's appearance, reviews and raves lead me to believe that the thing could sound as good with small stereo speakers as with (insert LARGE speakers) here. For 3200$US, it should. Seems it does. |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 161 Registered: Aug-05 | Marc- I e-mailed you at the rysa address is it still a good addy? |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 173 Registered: Nov-06 | Hey Quinn- Yes I got the email--why don't we wait until you get settled after your travels and then get together? WE can set up the new speakers or anything else then. I'll probably move stuff into the living room for a bit more open space than the study we were in last time with the floorstanders. WE can always use the home theater room if we want to integrate subs or the living room for a run of the mill receiver type siuation. ( Where the blue Ascends are) |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 162 Registered: Aug-05 | Marc, OK but if you have any recommendations for a local calibrator please e-mail them to me. While the kids are gone to grandma's is a perfect time for me to get it done. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 175 Registered: Nov-06 | There is a member of the houston HT group who reviews for Widescreen Review magazine. He knows who the better calibrators are based on the equipment needing calibration. I'll try and email him. |
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