I am currently researching a new system I will be buying in the upcoming couple of months. My total budget is about 5-6k So far this is what I have come up with...
Anyone have any thoughts on these components vs others in this price range. Also, is there any benefit to matching components by the same manufacturer?
Lastly, I cant seem to find too much info about the new YBA Design components, anyone have any experience with these?
Everything you've listed looks good...now go and listen. I'd take the Naim gear with a pair of their Ariva (if you can still find them) speakers. Now's it's up to you to apply your preferences to the task.
The advantage of buying from one manufacturer is avoiding the mismatches of components you can easily come up with when buying piecemeal. You can assume a single manufacturer has a company sound and that sound is applied throughout the line. Therefore the system will be sympatico by way of both personality and electrical demands. (The Naim gear wants its own speaker cable which the Thiels probably won't like. Or, consider that the Rega is probably not going to deliver sufficient current to drive the Thiels or the B&W's adequately beyond mid level volumes.) One component will not be too forward while another component is laid back if you buy from one manufacturer. One will not be analytical while another is musical. A speaker will not demand too much of the amplifier and vice versa. System matching can be as simple as all the levels match or as complicated as whether or not the system actually makes interesting musical sounds which transport you to another reality. It is most easily done with a single manufacturer system because they've done most of the decision making and matching for you.
Personally, I would say your amplifier choices are not going to be very happy with your speaker choices. You have a collection of decent components but they don't all work as one either electrically or by way of personality, as I hear those same components. I assume you are spending your money with a quality high end shop. They should be able to give you advice regarding which amplifiers will mate best with what speaker and why you might want to avoid certain pairings.
Finally, if you are spending that amount of money, go get a refresher in what live music sounds like before you make a decision on equipment. If you want the system to sound as close to the real thing as possible, you need to know what the real thing sounds like for real. Spend $200-300 on live music before dropping $6k on equipment.
Jan...Could you please elaborate on why the amps wont be good with speakers and/or the speakers wont be good for the amps. Also what do you recommend in that price range that is a better match?
As far as real music goes, I attend concerts constantly so I know what I want my system to sound like...its just a matter of picking the right equipment to get that. Thanks
The short version is speaker designers never talk to amplifier designers unless they are the same person doing both jobs - and then do you really want a product designed by someone who talks to themself?
From Stereophile's measurements page; "Thiel's literature goes into the efforts made by Jim Thiel to increase the CS1.6's sensitivity, and the speaker did indeed prove very sensitive, my estimate coming in 7dB above average, and 4dB above Thiel's own figure, at 94dB(B)/2.83V/m. This seemed unlikely, so I repeated the measurement, only to get the same result. However, the '1.6 does suck more than twice as much current as an 8 ohm speaker from the amplifier to achieve that high sensitivity, as revealed by its plot of impedance magnitude and electrical phase against frequency (fig.1). The phase angle is generally low--a good thing, in that it doesn't amplify the speaker's current demands--but the combination of 5.1 ohms magnitude and 48 degrees capacitive phase at 129Hz might stress an optimistically specified receiver or amplifier."
This what you need to be aware when matching the amplifier to the speakers in electrical terms. I assume you needn't worry about sensitivity of the speakers since all three you've listed are medium to slightly high efficiency designs. Unfortunately they will not play as loudly as their specs might lead you to believe. From your choices I can guess you're after a fairly up front sound that would work well with rock and some jazz as opposed to mostly classical program material. I would direct you more towards a moderately high efficiency speaker design that doesn't present drive capability problems to the amplifier you choose. Or, step up in amplifier choice substantially in order to drive the speakers you've chosen. The Thiels and the B&W's are notorious for sucking power from an amplifier and the Gallos is to a lesser extent though it too prefers high power amplifiers that can deliver large amounts of current on demand and recover quickly. As a group, this is not what you've chosen for your amplifier list. I don't have any specs to go by on these amplifiers and what you hear is the final arbitor of what works to your satisfaction. If you're satisfied these amps can drive the speakers adequately to the levels you desire, then give them a try. The shop should be able to consult on which product best suits which speaker. If they can't and you want more information regarding specific combinations, contact the manufacturers before making a purcahse. Ask the speaker companies about the low impedance point for their design and the electrical phase angle of the crossover. Ask the amplifier companies about their ability to drive unusual or difficult loads and the ability of the amplifier to recover from demanding passages. These companies know their product better than I can and they should be happy to assist a potential client.
As to the sonic pairing of the amps and speakers, I would advise against pairing a warm sounding amplifier with a bright sounding speaker. The personalities of the two products are dissimilar in their presentational style and will end up being no more than a BandAid to the problem of aggressive high frequency content. Your ears are the decider here.
I don't normally make product recommendations due to the many variables involved in leading someone to the correct product for their desires. I would suggest you try a pair of Triangle speakers if they are available for audition. I think their sonic fingerprint might suit what you seem to be looking for.
I haven't personally heard YBA gear. There was a link here to a high-end stereo repair shop that was discussed various components and common problems they have. They stated that while YBA CD players sound great, they have many design flaws that are very costly to fix and are the most unreliable products they see on a regular basis. They also said that YBA's amplification is very well designed and very reliable. That's just one repair person's findings though. After seeing that (he also listed the whys and hows) it turned me off to looking into their gear, maybe unfairly though.
Naim and Rega have a pretty distinct "house sound" if you will. Both companies also make their own speakers, which should for all intents and purposes match best with their amplification. It goes along the lines of what was previously discussed about matching amps and CD players from the same manufacturers.
Furthermore, Naim and Rega take the approach of designing an entire system, and not just designing single components that fit together. The Rega and Naim speakers I've heard sound good with other companies' gear, but sound great with their own gear. Personally, I'd give them more initial consideration than another manufacturer's speakers. If you don't like them, then start looking into other speakers IMO.
Just like the rest of their gear, Naim and Rega's speakers aren't everyone's cup of tea. Many people have said they're an aquired taste. They're not the most traditional speakers in terms of presentation, but niether is the rest of Naim and Rega's gear. Also, Naim and Rega components and speakers usually get along very well together. Rega's speakers match very well with Naim's amplification, and Naim's speakers match very well with Rega's amplification so long as one isn't in a higher class than the other.
If your Naim dealer sells Rega as well (as mine does), that should make life easy trying to demo them together.
Also, Naim and Rega dealers are usually very good. The usually know the gear inside out. They've most likely tried a bunch of different combinations and have first hand knowledge of what works best from electrical aspects to sound quality. Thses guys should be able to tell you what to look for if you don't like the speakers they carry. Just because a speaker sounds great with one brand doesn't mean it'll sound just as good or better when paired up with a 'better' brand.
I would suggest that you spend a little time with your local dealer, with a few of your favourite CD's. It is the best way to settle into a how you want your system to sound, we all have different requirements and opinions, but the final choice has to be met with the approval of your ears and brain.
Depending upon what is available for dem, start with something like a apollo/brio/R3, get to know that sound, then change to the naim 5's but keep the R3's as a contstant. Which appeals more? work out why, then talk to the dealer. As someone said above Rega and Naim dealers tend to know the kit they sell, On the speaker side of things, if they are available then spendor, PMC, and Proac tend to sound good hung on naim and rega to my ears. All different of course, but good. Enjoy the search.
It's been a while since I heard them last, but I'm not sure that the B&W 703s would be a good match for either the Rega or the Naim pairing. The 703 is a big power hungry speaker (even though its specs say otherwise). The Rega Mira would struggle and the the Naim would also be pushed. Also, note that the700 series is not a big seller for B&W which is a shame since they're beautifully made speakers. They just don't seem to cut it for the majority of people who demo them.
I don't know the Thiel or Gallo, but if these are easier loads then I suggest you look there, or at Naim and Rega's own speaker ranges.
Not only are the B&W 700's difficult to drive, I really don't see them as a very good synergistic match with Naim or Rega. Also, from everything I've read (I've never heard them personally) Thiels are very difficult to drive, I'm assuming more difficult than the B&Ws.
Is there something I missed where JK isn't married to the concept of the larger speakers? Seems like all of the suggestions are to downsize the speakers.
Figure $1K for the Apollo, YBA Designs can be had for ~$1K each, $3K for the Gallos or 703s, less for the Thiels, that leaves ~$2K for an amp, where the Mira is ~$1K. Unless JK goes with the Naim for ~$1K more than the Rega components.
Why no suggestions to kick up the volume with a better integrated amp? There is headroom in the budget, if the Apollo is the CD player.
Because the source is all important. If the signal out of the source is not that hot, then the result will suffer since the amp and speakers will be so good they'll demonstrate the condition of the signal at that point. Don't get me wrong - the Apollo is a fine player and absolutely excellent value for money, but it remains a player at a price. Its Saturn brother creams it in every aspect of performance. The Naim CD5i is more difficult to choose over it since the differences are more subtle. The CD5x absolutely walks all over it on the other hand. If JK reconsiders his budget and weights it toward the CD player, the musical result will be superior.