I have a problem and any suggestion will be greatly appreciated. I have a NAD T753 and Totem Arro for front and Totem Dreamcatcher for the surround and the sub. Great combo for music in Stereo and surround. When I go pass -20 db on my NAD the Arros start to clip but not the surround speakers, and I have the soft clip option on. Does this mean that I need more power for the front speakers (Arro)? Would it help if I buy a NAD C272 just to power up the Arros and use the T753 amp to power up the surrounds only? Is there a better way? I don't want to lose any sound quality.
That should definitely help things. Totems like alot of power to sound their best plus most of the models are 4ohm loads. Which is more strain on the amp.
However you might want to make sure your receiver is using the correct speaker settings. For the Totems I would use a small setting with a 80hz crossover to the sub. This helps make the amp a bit more efficient. Even with the C272. Use a small speaker setting. The Arros will sound a good bit less congested and sound more open since they will not have to go to low in the bass.
For sure, I'd set your centre and surrounds to small. Given that they're from the Dreamcatcher line, they have even less low end extension than your Arros, and if you're going to have your Arros set to small, then the rest should be too. By setting your speakers to small and therefore using them with a high-pass filter, you're eliminating the burden on them of reproducing the lower frequencies and allowing them to perform better, allowing your amp to deliver more power where it's needed, and you'll probably achieve a greater sounding system. After doing that, you'll just need to dial in your subwoofer optimally and find the best integration between it and your speakers.
Your NAD T753 should do a great job of driving your system with your speakers all set to small, I believe. You'll probably need to play at a much higher level to experience clipping, and therefore may save yourself the purchase of an amp. However, if you're still not satisfied, considering adding a 2-channel amp for your mains IS a pretty good idea.
Thanks for advice RJW1138. I set the Arros to small, but I have not been able to crack it up yet. Would adding a 2-channel amp just for the mains really improve the sound quality of the Arros?
I noticed in another thread of yours that you claim you have your mains adjusted to +12dB in your receiver, so obviously you realize that instead of being at -20, you're really at -8dB with your mains. I have a NAD receiver too (T742) with similar power (50 Wpc x 5), and speakers that are only a bit more efficient than yours (nominal 6 Ohm, min 2.9 Ohm, ~90 dB sensitivity), and I know that -8dB is pretty loud on my system. However, I can go up to at least +5 without clipping. It's incredibly loud at that point. Somehow I'm finding it a little hard to understand why your receiver is kacking out before you're getting to a volume level that you're happy with, but maybe it's just the 4 Ohm rating of your speakers and there's not much you can do about that.
Adding another 2-channel amp will allow you to drive your mains with the power they require, and free up 2 amp channels on your receiver so that its power supply will better be able to feed the centres and surrounds. What you will get is simply the ability to drive your system louder without clipping, probably to any volume that you could possibly want. Obviously, it's a great solution, but you have to be sure that financially it's worth it to you, and that it's really what you want and need. Will adding a NAD amp improve the _sound quality_ of your system? Probably not much. The amp sections in NAD receivers are pretty darn good. It's the preamp section that's a little weak. If you're bypassing the internal amps, and going to an external one, also made by NAD, you're not really going to get much better sound quality out of your system. Anyways, hope that all helps.
RJW1138, thansk for the detailed explanation. I have the mains at +12, because the dealer told me to do it to get the max out of the receiever. I will look for a used C272, if I find it I'll buy otherwise financially it does not make sense!
For what it's worth, I'm 99.9% sure that your dealer is wrong. I don't believe that there's any benefit to turning up speakers to their max (ie. +12dB) in their independent channel configuration. A receiver has a fixed amount of maximum gain, and whether you accomplish that by having your speakers independently calibrated high (say gain X) and your volume turned to level Y, or your speakers set to even (0), and your volume turned to level Y + X, there should be no difference in output power or sound quality. Really, what the independent speaker calibration is for is just to get your levels matched. The standard practice is to just have your mains set to 0dB (or one of them, if the other needs to be different), and then calibrate the rest of your speakers accordingly.
ANYways, there's a .1% chance that I'm wrong, so feel free to not pay any attention to this.
Actually, what you are saying makes total sense. There is no need to set them at +12db. I also got a message from Totem which confirms what you have been saying (in case you are interested):
for maximum dynamics the Arro would benefit from more power
they do posses larger power demands than the dreamcatcher monitor
a separate amplifier to power the Arro would benefit the front channels greatly
it is important to note that the front channels do posses much more information than the rear channel and the Arro is working considerably "harder" than the dreamcatcher in surround
another alternative is setting the ARRO to "small" on your processor and rolling it off to 40 or 60 Hz
this will relieve some strain on your amplifier, and the dreamcatcher sub will take over the lower bandwidth demands
(this would be a slight compromise to the 1st option of a dedicated amplifier for the Arro)
A lot of people think that the amp POWERS the speakers, and that the speakers just sit passively waiting for that power. This isn't true. Speakers demand power, they DRAW it from the amp until they are satisfied. If your amp doesn't have enough power, then it clips. Why? Because the speakers are DEMANDING more power than the amp can supply and the mouse in the amp just can't run any faster.
Examine the wattage requirements of all speakers, add them together, and get an amp that supplies at least that amount.
I have a Pioneer reciever which can crank 120 watts per channel, should I buy speakers matching that output rating only? I have hooked up a set of speakers which rate 100 watts and they sound ok. On another occasion, I have hooked up speakers rating 150 watts too, they sounded ok too. The speakers with the 100 watt rating sound clearer and louder.
As long as you have amplification that can drive your speakers without clipping (or with almost no clipping), you will be getting the most out of your speakers as far as components are concerned. If you want better sound you will undoubtedly need to get better speakers and/or room treatments to help out the acoustics of the room. A simple Radio Shack SPL Meter can help you determine if you have peaks or valleys in your sound field.
With your receiver set to +12, I suspect you are hearing the pre-amp clipping, not the amp. I would dial it back to 0 and I think it will solve your problem.
Hawk, I have set them back to +6db and set the speakers to small and have no more clipping. I will lower it to +3 to make sure the in the heat of the moment it doesn't clip.
The Arros should be set to large, not small. Small means they can't go below 80hz and Arros can do so.
You need to match the relative levels of the speakers. Put your amp into test mode. Start at zero on your left Arro. Move on to the centre and set it so it has the same sound level as the left Arro. Now set the right Arro to have the same sound level to the centre. On average you'll find a variation of maybe +/- 1 or 2 db. Set the rear right to the same level as the front right, and the rear left to the same level as the front left. This will be a balanced system.
Whoever told you to set the fronts to +12 doesn't know what he's talking about...
Totem suggested that I should set the Arro to small. I have also sold my Dreamcatcher sub and bought an Onix UFW-10 which is a musical sub. Everything works fine now. I appreciate if you can elaborate on why I should set them to large.
Well, my experience with them is that since they go down to 40hz they're a full range speaker and so it makes sense to use them as such. That said, if Totem say they should be set to small I'm inclined to at least listen to their advice and try it.