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Rabuck Unregistered guest | When listening to certain bookshelf speakers, they sometimes come off as too bright ("revealing" to some) for my tastes. Can a subwoofer "flesh out" some of these setups and kind of "blend" things so that the "revealing" nature of the speakers stays in place, while making it less pronounced? I've heard and read where many bookshelf speakers are intentionally designed with a certain "revealing" nature, with the intention of being mated with a sub regardless of room size, music/video use, etc. I've considered buying a sub/sat system in pieces ($$$$), and just don't know if I could tolerate the bookshelfs alone until I can get the sub $ together. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6879 Registered: May-04 | A "bright" speaker is typically one that has a slightly rising frequency response between 3kHz and 10kHz. While this brightness is often used to make a speaker "jump" off the shelf in a shop, this is not the sort of sound that can be "balanced" by a subwoofer operating beneath 80Hz. What you seem to be describing is a speaker that many people would consider "thin". Possibly you are looking at some small satellites with severly limited low frequency response. If there is litle in the way of response beneath 120Hz, that speaker will require a subwoofer to bring the sound around to anything close to nuetral. Of course, crossing to a sub at such a high frequency will bring its own set of problems. From what you have posted, I would suggest you go listen to some live music to get an idea what a speaker should be reproducing and then go audition speakers again with a better ear toward musicality. |
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Rabuck Unregistered guest | Thanks for the feedback Jan. I actually have been attending live concerts for @ 40 years and happen to be the son of a musician, and husband to a church choir member. I love to hear the detail in recorded music, but unfortunately the more "revealing" speakers on the market tend to make many cds in my collection almost unlistenable, yet the ones that are recorded well sound like they never have before. Most recently I was over a (musician) friend of mine's house as he switched between several pairs of speakers that he either owned, borrowed or was auditioning. He owns a pair of Maggie 1.6's (?) that I've always loved but don't have the room for in my home, as well as small bookshelves from McIntosh, and a few other well known companies. His home/studio is a mass of wires and cables, but that is a whole nuther story... Anyway, some cat dropped off a pair of internet-direct tall, thin bookshelf speakers to get his opinion and to hear what they sounded like with some volume behind them. One of the cds played was by a gospel choir and this is where it gets tricky: On most setups the voices on this cd come off as ONE, meaning you can hear the different singers, all within the context of the choir itself. On the I.D. speakers, you could actually hear and almost count each individual singer in the choir. The layering of voices was staggering, and unlike anything I had ever heard, short of a live performance itself. The problem was that the speakers needed some bottom, and sounded a bit "thin" as you termed it, overall. Again, well recorded cds sounded great (minus the deep end, of course), while many others sounded like crap. Since no one that I know uses a sub-woofer, we had no way of adding one to the system on such short notice to see how much of a difference it would make. Also, I live in a townhome, where a whole lot of bass is not in option in my setup. I never even considered a sub prior to this weekend and don't want to get my hopes up that a sub, mated with "revealing" bookshelf speakers, will come together in a uniform manner to make my overall cd collection (all kinds of music) an enjoyable listening experience. Fire away! |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6883 Registered: May-04 | Not much to add. It sounds like you have a frame of reference for what you hear in a live performance. Simply keep listening until you find the right combination. You've not mentioned anything about the equipment you will be pairing the speakers with so I would add that the speakers must be fed a signal that is capable of separating the voices before the speakers can manage that feat. Without too much more knowledge of your set up or budget, I would refer you to the Lings. They are a very coherent design that has the ability to make sense of the music in the manner you describe and yet they have a bottom end that is quite sufficient for most music. http://www.us.alegriaaudio.com/Ling.htm https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/products/reviews/156699.html |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 403 Registered: Feb-05 | if you like Maggie's, Magnepan has a MUCH smaller pair of speakers called MMG's, that are roughly the size of a pair of tower speakers, vs doors. MMG's are only available from Magnepan directly, and cost a VERY reasonable $550 per pair. They are available with black, off white, and grey socks, and black or walnut (I believe) rails. I myself own these speakers, and LOVE them. I find them VERY revealing, and can listen to all my music on them, without rendering it unlistenable. For reference, I listen to everything from Sarah Brightman, Diana Krall, James Taylor, Madonna, Keiko Matsui, Sade, Jim Brickman, some chamber music, and so on. People tend to level a criticism against these by saying they are weak in the bass. Let me tell you that they are FLAT to roughly 50Hz. If you have never heard a speaker that can do so, it will astound you at the bass quality that these have. But, being that you are familiar with the maggie sound, it should come as no surprise. here is the link so you can check these out for yourself. http://www.magnepan.com/_mmg.php Magnepan is a smallish company (but on the large side for high end), so it can take some time to contact someone. But, in the end the effort will pay off. Give them a try! |
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Bayless is gone Unregistered guest | "I love to hear the detail in recorded music, but unfortunately the more "revealing" speakers on the market tend to make many cds in my collection almost unlistenable, yet the ones that are recorded well sound like they never have before." What your hearing is not the "slightly rising frequency response between 3kHz and 10kHz" Jan Vigne suggests but rather the phase shift of the crossover in the speakers. Think about what you just said. Do you honestly believe even for a second, that those cd's that sound bad all had musicians that couldn't care less how the final mix sounds or the artist likes harsh sound or perhaps the recording engineers, who went to school and were certified and trained just screwed up on those recordings? Do you believe that the record label doesn't demand good sound? It's their money to lose at stake, yes? Think no one is doing test pressings? You would be wrong. What your hearing is music with a lot going on in the crossovers range. You should be able to hear each and every mic feed on the recording, vs hearing just a wall of sound with no depth or width. Most modern recordings have between 128 and 256 individual mic feeds, mixed between left, center and right by the recording engineer. A sub will only add to your phase shift related problems. The internet direct speakers have less phase shift than the others in your tests. Simple as that. Why spend hard earned cash on speakers that only allow you to enjoy SOME of your music? Seems silly to me. |