Looking for the best reciever for $300

 

Silver Member
Username: Biggyg9712

Post Number: 104
Registered: Sep-05
i need a good reciever for $300. and i was thinking of getting 5 infinity primus speakers and the infinity ps-10 subwoofer. im going to be paying about $550 for the speakers and sub, is that a good deal?
 

Gold Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 2707
Registered: Mar-05
I'd buy the speakers and sub separately if I were you. On an $850 budget this would be my config:

2 pairs of Athena AS-B1 bookshelves and 1 AS-C1 center for $300, audioadvisor.com

Panasonic sa-xr55 pure digital receiver, $228 shipped from amazon.com or jr.com ... read up on what all the fuss is about:

https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/160136.html

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=1251&page=1&p p=10

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=530504

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=417894

Hsu STF-2 b-stock for $350 shipped (a-stock is $425 shipped) from hsuresearch.com ... this thing would eat the PS-10 for lunch.
 

Silver Member
Username: Biggyg9712

Post Number: 105
Registered: Sep-05
k, what do u think the best subwoofer is for around 300? or should i pay $400 and get the HSU. would i be able to hook up a 8-ohm car subwoofer?
 

Gold Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 2709
Registered: Mar-05
The Hsu is worth every penny, get the B-stock if you want to save some money.

The car subwoofer would require its own separate amp, just sell it on eBay and forget about it.
 

Silver Member
Username: Biggyg9712

Post Number: 107
Registered: Sep-05
whats the difference between b-stock and a-stock?
 

Dynacofan
Unregistered guest
Take the advice! Edster is dead on, you will have an awesome, quality, starter setup!
 

Gold Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 2720
Registered: Mar-05
a-stock: never opened, straight from the factory

b-stock: cosmetic defect, refurbished, or opened and returned for whatever reason (customer changed their mind, etc.)
 

Silver Member
Username: Chitown

Post Number: 384
Registered: Apr-05
Actually that is not true Edster. Some manufacturers refer to their a-stock as opened once, but otherwise undamaged and in new working condition. B-stock would refer to units that have dings, discoloration etc, but otherwise carry the full warranty etc.

 

Gold Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 2727
Registered: Mar-05
geez, what manufacturers do that? (shudders)
 

Silver Member
Username: Chitown

Post Number: 386
Registered: Apr-05
I just bought a set of Aperion bookshelves for my bedroom. I ended up with an A-stock at 15% off the list.

 

Gold Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 2741
Registered: Mar-05
I'll be curious to hear how you like the Aperions compared to your Axioms...
 

Silver Member
Username: Chitown

Post Number: 388
Registered: Apr-05
So am I trust me. Although these are decidedly smaller speakers. I am matching them up with my old Rotel and a used NAD CD player I picked up at Saturday audio Exchange for $50 for our bedroom. I can't wait.

 

Silver Member
Username: Biggyg9712

Post Number: 109
Registered: Sep-05
is there a reason the rear speakers dont produce very much sound while watching tv and some dvd's?
 

Gold Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 2755
Registered: Mar-05
> is there a reason the rear speakers dont produce very much sound while watching tv and some dvd's?

LOL yes there is---because even on a heavy duty action flick like "Lord of the Rings" the surrounds only do at most 20% of the work. That's why I always tell people that if they don't do much multichannel music (SACD/DVD-A) then they don't need super-duper surrounds, these are the least important part of the system.

Most TV is in 2-channel, as are many DVDs especially the older non-mainstream films.
 

Silver Member
Username: Rsxman

Post Number: 123
Registered: Jul-05
I would go with HK for a good reciever, the pioneer elite receivers are hard to get under $300, even from ebay. I would also check out Fluance speakers from Fluance.com

I had athenas for a long time and still have some bookshelf speakers. The Fluance and Athenas sound very very similar. Detail wise the fluance sounds better with vocals and higher frequencies, and Athena sounds great in bass and midrange.

When I worked at Best Buy, I got everything at almost cost, so when I priced out what I paid for the Athenas, it was the same as the Price for the SX-HTB+ from fluance.

Both use very similar technology and both are from Canada. I love mine a lot, sound very good. The center is much smaller than the beast from Athena which I like better.

I matched it with vsx-52tx elite receiver and it sounds very good for the price range.

btw the fluance speaker set is now $370 for two towers, one center, and two rear surrounds.
 

Silver Member
Username: Cheapskate

Post Number: 479
Registered: Mar-04
without reading the replies... i'm sure edster is talking about his panny, and i'm here to rave about my SA-XR55 ($240 delivered)

had i known it would sound so good that it would stop me from chasing the maggie MMGs that i originally bought it for, i would have sprung the $50 extra for the SA-XR70 and it's high rez HDMI in jack for HD-DVD when it gets here and SACD and DVD-A when i get a universal player.

i owned an NAD stereo reciever. i didn't like it. it had muffled treble and couldn't image worth beans.

my onkyo HT reciever had much clearer treble and imaging and i was happy enough with it until i heard maggies which onkyo can't do due to 4 ohm loads.

i started reading about pannies and eventually that they can do 4 ohms without blowing up. i took the plunge and bought one. it spanks my onkyo so thoroughly in every way that i no longer want maggies. the reciever bridged half of the gulf.

treble is much faster and detailed but at the same time has alot less grain. even if i put my ear next to my tweeters, i can't hear any spit.

the bass is much deeper and tighter. (the NAD did bass well though... i'll give them credit on that)

dynamics have alot more oomph and speed. for the first time, my tiny superzeros sound like they have some weight.

imaging is amazing. it's the widest, even extending past the speakers, that it's ever been. even though it's wider, it still has image specificity. the center is no longer bunched in a ball like it used to be. it extends between the speakers, and sounds continuous. i've never heard the "air between instruments" before in my room.

the trait that REALLY made my jaw drop the instant i powered it up though is the midrange. it's so smooth and lush i can't believe it. for the first time ever in my room female vocals sound nearly convincing though not quite as good as they do on maggies, but ALOT closer.

the unit seems to do everything right. it's almost as if it weren't even there. i guess i should just say it pulls the disappearing act off quite well.

it also does an amazing job at prologic decoding too. i can actually listen to CDs in surround sound now. the onkyo sounded very artificial doing that while the panny makes stereo sound like it was recorded multichannel.

any gripes? a couple:

i hate those "you better plan on banana jacks unless you have the patience of a saint hooking pins up and forget about spades" 2 way binding posts. i like 5 ways alot better with their holes through the post for pins. my onkyo had the same type posts

there's no switched power outlets in back, in fact none period. so much for powering your sub up with the reciever.

the remote places a "remaster" button (treble boost) right over the surround on-off button which is inconvenient and doesn't include the more useful dynamic range compression feature for late night listening which must be turned on and off at the reciever.

the "multi mode" knob takes some getting used to.

no phono preamp

and i don't like the look of RCA jacks on the front of any gear. it looks cheap even if it is a convenience. i wish makers would start putting them behind doors.

all those gripes aside... the unit kicks butt sonically which is the most important thing.

i can't wait to dust my unused center channel off and move it to the back of the room to have a rear surround for the first time. i might even shop around for another pair of zeros for stereo rear channels.

you can't beat panasonic SA-XR recievers for the money. you can't. it's those awesome class-d amps i tell ya.
 

Silver Member
Username: Cheapskate

Post Number: 480
Registered: Mar-04
regarding rear surrounds...

everyone always seems to only talk about surrounds in the context of movies where rear channels are only used for dramatic purposes usually and sometimes for ambience. (they should always do ambience in my opinion)

but if you use your surrounds in pro logic mode, you'll get ALOT more use out of your sides (and) rears. most comedy TV shows mix laugh tracks to the surround to give viewers more of an in audience feel. you'll get alot of surround use there.

another thing no-one ever mentions is using prologic mode on stereo signals like CDs. on a good decoder, stereo CDs can sound like they were recorded in multichannel. tracks with good natural reverb like classical, can envelop you quite well. electronic music can be especially rewarding in surround mode as individual sounds jump out at you from the sides.

solex vs. the hitmeister, the art of noise and some kraftwerk tracks are enjoyable to listen to in surround if you have a good prologic decoder. i think my panny does this so well as it uses prologic IIx which must be an improvement over PL II. it sounds it.

the "ultimate" use of a prologic decoder might be binaural recordings. i read about them sounding exceptional in surround mode as the out of phase ambience goes to the surrounds.

a concert that i recorded with a pair of PZM mics spaced approximately ear distance apart sounds great in surround mode. you're surrounded by applause.

surround sound isn't just for DVDs and SACDs. it can sound pretty darned good with the right stereo signal too.
 

Silver Member
Username: Chitown

Post Number: 389
Registered: Apr-05
BM what you are saying about the different digital modes is true. I have heard, strangely enough, all kinds of sounds coming out of my rear speakers when watching regular TV. It seems as if the receiver and its decoder makes decisions to send some sounds to the back channels for no apparent reasons. It gets sounds out there, but it doesn't really enhance the quality of the experience as compared to a really fine 5.1 recording on a DVD like that of the Eagles Farewell Tour from Melbourne.


 

Gold Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 2759
Registered: Mar-05
I agree with Stof, imposing surround sound onto an original 2-channel source usually produces crappy results in my experience.
 

Silver Member
Username: Biggyg9712

Post Number: 110
Registered: Sep-05
would it be better to just purchase a center, 2 floor speakers, and 2 book shelfs, over 4 book shelfs and a subwoofer, and a center. im trying to save money, and i really dont need to much bass.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Afrogt

Post Number: 27
Registered: Dec-03
Floorstanders will not compensate for the lack of a true sub. You'll get more bass than you would with bookshelves but not nearly the low frequencies you can get from a sub.

If you want to save money, get one of the 10" or 12" Dayton subs from parts express. They're well liked by forum members and only cost between $120 and $140. They don't go as low as the Hsu sub, but much lower than a floostanding speaker.
 

Gold Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 2762
Registered: Mar-05
1. You can have your receiver filter out the lower frequencies (80 Hz and under, usually) that the bookshelf speakers are doing, and have the sub handle all of these low frequencies. This will improve the sound quality of the bookshelves since they'll be free to concentrate on what they are usually best at, which is midrange and treble.

2. The sub has its own amplifier so it is not using any of the power resources of your receiver. In contrast, with big floorstanders and no sub your receiver will be under a lot more strain to put out those low frequencies---since the low frequencies typically consume the most power. That's why the bigger the speaker, esp. the floorstander, the more powerful (=more expensive) your receiver or amp will need to be in order to run them properly. Nothing is worse than a weak receiver pushing some huge speakers---a friend of mine has a crappy Onkyo 502 running a pair of JBL e90s and the result is ghastly, the e90s sound even brighter and thinner than they already are due to underpowering.

3. As GregT pointed out, very very few floorstanding towers can match a subwoofer for not only low-end extension (the best floorstanders might go down to 35Hz but even a middling sub can easily do 25Hz or 20Hz) but also for output and sound quality.

4. A pair of bookshelf speakers that costs $300 will be far better constructed with better components and performance than a $300 pair of towers. With a subwoofer and a receiver with a high pass filter, you can run cheap $100-200 bookshelves and still get very good quality sound which would need at least a $800 pair of floorstanders to equal.

So yes if you are on a really tight budget and you're doing mainly HT, the Dayton subs would be okay and will still be a hell of a lot better than any lousy HTIB subwoofer (the sub is where HTIBs always cut the most corners).
 

Silver Member
Username: Cheapskate

Post Number: 491
Registered: Mar-04
if anything arbitrarily winds up in back on a TV show, then blame it on the recording engineer. many TV shows are recorded in dolby surround. that's the purpose of pro logic decoders to begin with.

an example of a well recorded mix is the special that PBS did about the 60s recently. sometimes, when it played music, the music was in the surrounds while the narration and video sound was up front. i don't remember hearing any front to back bleeding. it sounded like 4 channel discrete.

stereo CDs in surround mode are a little artificial sounding, but the panny does music mode very well. my onkyo would muffle the heck out of the front in pro logic mode and spotlight the surrounds while the panny is much clearer (still not quite as clear as stereo though) and has much better front to back integration.

it isn't perfect, but it's pretty good when you're in the mood for a more immersive experience. it really sounds cool on electronic album when you hear sounds panning left and right in your rears. yes... discrete multichannel is MUCH better, but how many DECENT discs are there and how much great music is out of print?

i'd like to try the pseudo binaural recordings i made of street noise out in surround mode. i bet they would sound spacious in PL IIx. they sound extremely realistic on phones except for a hole in the center image. i need to drag those concert recordings out too, but at the moment, my deck is being used for digitizing cassettes and my old onkyo won't do CD-Rs.

2 mic recordings really capture the phase differences that pro logic needs to generate rear channels. it's pretty much the same principle as quadraphonic. out of phase signals go to the rear.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Fps_dean

Williamstown, MA USA

Post Number: 40
Registered: Oct-05
Mike... the Primus 150s are a huge grade up from the little guys they try to push on you for the money. They have good clarity for a little bookshelf but not much low. A sub could compensate for that somewhat! Check ebay because you can get a pair of Primus 150s for about $120 right now. Also look for the sub there too. That may save you some money right there if you go with the Infinitys.

But the thing is your front speakers do most of the work. Typically you have something larger in front and smaller in back for this reason.
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