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Bronze Member Username: KidstereoPost Number: 22 Registered: Sep-05 | Hi, guys. I need some help. Are there any good warm-sounding receivers that can be had for $199 and under? |
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Bronze Member Username: RsxmanPost Number: 85 Registered: Jul-05 | hmmmm...probably your best bet would be a Harman Kardon stereo reciever. Its around $230 shipped from jr.com Match that with the fluance speakers i recomended and you should have a fairly good sounding system that will last you for some time. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2511 Registered: Mar-05 | great deals on HKs at Harman Audio on eBay, refurbs but with full original HK warranty. |
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Bronze Member Username: RsxmanPost Number: 88 Registered: Jul-05 | Ya they have some great deals on them for surround, but jr.com has no tax and no shipping for a limited time right now on the stereo receiver. |
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New member Username: TobiasPost Number: 3 Registered: Oct-05 | Denon has a warm sound too and you can find the AVR-485S for $223.06 shipped at www.6ave.com. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 125 Registered: Oct-04 | MARANTZ SR4300 RECEIVER 80W X 6CH for $219. Here's the Harman eBay store, but it's hard to win at a great price. http://stores.ebay.com/Harman-Audio_Harman-Kardon_W0QQcolZ2QQdirZQ2d1QQftidZ2QQt Zkm Any of the refurb Denons & Onkyos should also make you happy. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 127 Registered: Oct-04 | Denon AVR-485S for $159.99 (Refub.)@ ecost.com http://www.ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?dpno=502544 |
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New member Username: S_jonesB.C. Canada Post Number: 3 Registered: Oct-05 | What exactly is meant when a receiver is described as "warm"? |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 130 Registered: Oct-04 | Stolen? |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 132 Registered: Oct-04 | Dude, go buy this now. Marantz SR4300 http://www.ubid.com/actn/opn/getpage.asp?AuctionId=10507460&uwb=93730 |
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Silver Member Username: Touche6784USA Post Number: 639 Registered: Nov-04 | sb jones bright-typically over emphasis on treble. some see it as being more detailed. try klipsch and yammy to name a few warm-more emphasis on mids. typically less fatiguing to average listener. try B&W and marantz to name a few neutral- in between. people see harman kardon to be either neutral or warm its really all about the bandwidth emphasis. dunno how to explain more to you cause i honestly dont know anything else to say. |
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MooveyBuff Unregistered guest | Is that SR4300 for $199 that great of a deal? Even now? |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 133 Registered: Oct-04 | If by "Warm" you mean sounds real & not "Cold" and electronic, Marantz does the best job of this. Marantz also holds its price better than others. I'm not familiar with the SR4300, but its been a whaile since Marantz has put out a bad product. I'd roll the dice. |
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New member Username: S_jonesB.C. Canada Post Number: 6 Registered: Oct-05 | <bright-typically over emphasis on treble. some see it as being more detailed. try klipsch and yammy to name a few warm-more emphasis on mids. typically less fatiguing to average listener. try B&W and marantz to name a few neutral- in between. people see harman kardon to be either neutral or warm> I was actually considering pairing a Yamaha with Klipsch speakers until I read over and over that this combination would result in excessive brightness. Definitely want to avoid that. Thanks for the clarification on "warm"-ness.;) |
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Silver Member Username: Touche6784USA Post Number: 652 Registered: Nov-04 | some people actually like that combo. bright to some people means detailed and warm means lifeless and dull. it is not necessarily a bad thing just depends on your preferences. |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 439 Registered: Mar-04 | i've never thought of harmon kardon, denon, yamaha or onkyo as sounding "warm". they are more bright. when i think warm, i think sony and NAD. my $240 (delivered) panasonic SA-XR55 has some midrange warmth compared to my onkyo. it really lets my little superzeros punch out bass deeper than they ever had before, but it also improved treble speed and detail and made the midrange dramatically better. sony and NAD are too polite in the treble (warm territory) for my tastes. hated my NAD liked my onkyo better for the treble detail improvement but the panasonic totally kicks butt. it has great treble control (all frequencies really) yet at the same time it's super laid back and relaxed sounding. even with the added detail, i'd say it's warmer than my onkyo and ALOT more natural. i'd say it's worth stretching your budget an extra $20 for class-d. i could have gotten mine cheaper, but i'd rather buy from a 4 1/2 star store than a 3 1/2 star one and don't mind sales tax if it saves me runaround. JVC has a $150 street price class-d reciever, but i wouldn't trust JVC reliability. my VCR was buggy out of the box and never worked 100% after repairs and when i tried to return a crappy DVD at best buy, saw 3 returned product boxes, ALL JVC products. i'd imagine the JVC might have a similar sound to the panny as it uses the same amp technology, but panasonic is a top rated brand for reliability... even higher than sony the last time i read up. forget tonal balance... SA-XR recievers have incredible top to bottom resolution without any grain even if you stand right next to your tweeters. i've heard stories of people selling much more expensive gear to own cheap panasonics. as thoroughly as mine spanked my onkyo, i believe it. the upside is that my onkyo is giving my sub bass rolloff that i couldn't get out of my overly infrasonic realistic 1970s integraded amp. i'm not into deep loud bass much. i'm afraid of what the panasonic would do. i picture it sending my sub into orbit. |
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stingray22 Unregistered guest | What model of Onkyo were you comparing the Pannny to? I have a 600 and run athena f1s c1 and r1s for speakers. Wondering if the Panny would be an upgrade and how the speakers would match. Thanks |
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melikeonkyostuff Unregistered guest | Is there something wrong with your Onkyo that you need an upgrade? Are you not satisfied? I like Onkyo stuff. Sad too, they make good stuff, but people see one frikking chart that claims their power rating is overrated and they sing like canaries about Onkyo being crap. Or, they may hear from one or 2 forum members that Onkyo is crap and they go around regurgitating the same crap they were told. Stick with your Onkyo if you like it. Or upgrade to a better Onkyo. I simply have no experience with this Panny, so I can't help ya' there. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2706 Registered: Mar-05 | stingray, if there's a Circuit city in your town that carries the Panny, just buy one and return it if you don't hear an improvement. I am certain you would end up keeping it...my first AVR was an Onkyo 601, returned it after about 10 days for a Marantz 5400, then added NAD separates, and now that I have the Panny the Marantz is headed to eBay and the NAD is in my bedroom. Onkyo has wonderful ease of use and nice looks. For HT it was adequate, I just found its presentation of music to be lifeless and weak. |
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melikemarantztoo Unregistered guest | Just curious..How much you lookin' to get for the Marantz, Edster? |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 172 Registered: Oct-04 | Yeah? how much? |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2717 Registered: Mar-05 | $330 shipped. |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 634 Registered: May-05 | I'll go $1.25 and pay the shipping, Ed. LOL BTW, that's more expensive than the Panny so why would I want to do that? Or, have I already done that? What's in my entertainment center? |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2726 Registered: Mar-05 | ah David, Jan has already asked me the same question and my answer is: for all the stubborn analog diehards out there who would turn up their noses at a $228 little Panny. Or, the same reason that LPs now cost more than CDs, if you can find them...because there are some people nuts enough to pay that price. |
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Silver Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 383 Registered: Apr-05 | Here is Edster's commercial: "For Sale: Marantz 5400 slightly used $330. this is really good for for all the stubborn analog diehards out there who would turn up their noses at a $228 little Panny. for more info call Edster" LOL Eddie looks like you went to the Infiniti school of advertising. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2728 Registered: Mar-05 | well as you might've figured, Ecoustics denizens were not really the target buyers I had in mind for my 5400, LOL... |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2068 Registered: Feb-05 | "who would turn up their noses at a $228 little Panny" I ain't turnin' up my nose, just tryin' to protect my ears...lol. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2731 Registered: Mar-05 | ok Art, even though I disagree with you I have to give you credit for a well-placed zinger there...LOL |
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New member Username: Fps_deanPost Number: 7 Registered: Oct-05 | NAD is definitely warm budget_minded. Good point. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 190 Registered: Oct-04 | Depends on your budget, in this case about $200. Like I've said, a refurb Marantz would be my choice (for a few more bucks), followed closely by a refurb Denon or Pioneer. NAD can be a budget buster. Save the money you save by buying a refurb on a speaker upgrade. |
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Bronze Member Username: Fps_deanPost Number: 28 Registered: Oct-05 | ^^ Good point. |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 721 Registered: Dec-03 | The following is from the FAQ (frequently asked questions)at the Anthem Audio site (owned by Paradigm) and disarmingly honest--must have been written by audio engineers, much to the distress of the marketting department. Q26: Do the amps have a warm sound or a bright sound? A: None of our components are designed with a "sonic flavor" other than accurately playing whatever is in a recording. Q27: Are they better suited for music or for movies? A: Sound reproduction equipment doesn't know the difference between a music signal and a movie signal, or for that matter the musical score within a movie soundtrack. Accurate for one means accurate for the other. |
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Silver Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 403 Registered: Apr-05 | Good find Greg, however this doesn't point to what extent each company will go through to assure the "accuracy" of playing whatever comes through it. I suspect some spend more time engineering and QA than others and thus the difference in audio components. What part of this do you see as distressing to the marketing department? |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 722 Registered: Dec-03 | Any audio engineer working for any of the major (or even minor companies)knows the basics for designing an amp section that passes an accurate signal. There may be some incompetant engineers floating around, but most amps or recievers that pass a flavored signal are distorting it on purpose to arrive at some distorted result that they find pleasing. Most well made amp sections (whether inexpensive or expensive) mainly differ in their ability to drive the speakers that they are attached to. Most inexspensive receivers rely on the hope that most consumers will buy sensitive 8 ohm speakers for surrounds to minimize clipping. Now just about every speaker has higher distortion levels than any amps (except from some bizarre triodes that often have distortion levels of 3% and rarely produce more than 10 watts). But there are people that like the distorted sound mated with soft-clipping from these odd underpowered tube amps. I printed some copy yesterday that was rejected from posting. Had to do with various reviews from audiphile magazines at the same Anthem site that gave amazing adjectives and abilities to the amplified signal that the Anthem engineers at the FAQ site said don't exist. Why this is distressing to marketting departments and many audiophile magazines is that they want to express extravagant hyperbole about the sound of amps that don't exist. There are obvious marketting and advertising revenue reasons for this behavior. If as the Anthem engineers say that their amps only pass the signal they get and don't alter it audibly (except make it louder) than the only reasonable reviewer or marketter should say to buy the amount of amplification you need for your speakers to prevent clipping, or at least keep clipping to a minimum. In which case the measurements of amps should be compared by driving two speakers and then maybe 5 speakers simultaneously of the same brand and ohms. Then you will get honest amplifier power performance capability. One can drive amps into 4 ohm and 8 ohm resistors, but they don;t really represent the actual load of a speaker--as speakers vary in ohms at various frequencies. |
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Bronze Member Username: PtarmiganPost Number: 11 Registered: Nov-05 | I just bought a Marantz 4600 to replace an old Yamaha Class A/AB amp. Class A or good AB produces a warm sound vs. the cold sound of the older poorly biased Class B transistor amps. The Yamaha CA-1010 did the job, but it was falling apart. The Marantz sounds just about as sweet and warm as the Yamaha. It has more detail and more bass. It is above your price range, but this suggests that other Marantz models should sound good. You could keep an eye out for a sale; Cambridge Audio has them periodically. There are "experts" out there saying all amps sound the same these days. That's a bit like saying all cats have fur - how do they know? Have they listened to all of them? I do know that older amps definitely sounded different. The Yamahas in the 90s had some of the coldest sound I have ever heard - horrible. I guess marketing figured the bright sound would sell. But it was a 180 from my Class A Yamaha. Who knows what they are doing now. I guess you need to actually listen to some receivers. With more expensive amps it might be less risky to buy without auditioning. You could buy a CA-1010 used from a reputable dealer through e-Bay within your price range. But after my Marantz experience, I am not sure it would be worth it. It would be interesting to hear what you think of a new $199 receiver. |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 732 Registered: Dec-03 | How experts or the average listener can determine whether amps sound the same is through double blind PCabx tests. When comparably powered amplifiers or receivers are set within 0.1db in volume and then played back numerous times where the listeners don't know which device is driving the speakers and then have to make a decision on which one was playing, you get a very accurate assessment on whether people are blowing smoke or actually hear a difference. Sure there are amplifiers and receivers that alter the signal dramatically enough that you could tell the difference. But well made modern amps of comparable power set within 0.1 dbs are nigh impossible to tell the difference, unless there is a dramatic measureable difference in output impedance, distortion, etc. If an amp makes your music sound sweet and warm then something is wrong. You may like the sound, but odds are it isn't reproducing the cd or LP the way it was recorded. Most recordings aren't sweet and warm. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2837 Registered: Mar-05 | > You may like the sound, but odds are it isn't reproducing the cd or LP the way it was recorded. Most recordings aren't sweet and warm. Er, unless you were in the studio room with the musicians, how would you know if the recordings were "sweet and warm" or not? I don't disagree with the gist of your argument, but that last bit sounds a bit like speculating on the nature of the afterlife. |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 733 Registered: Dec-03 | True enough. I was making a generalization on the current state of recordings--and I am aware of the danger in doing such. That said, I am sure we are all aware of "hot" recordings and very compressed recordings (particularly in the rock genre). But it occurs in all genres to some extent. Finding excellent recordings, particularly of music you enjoy, can be a most difficult task. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6541 Registered: May-04 | "But well made modern amps of comparable power ... " "If an amp makes your music sound sweet ... " Oh, Gregory!!! Do you stay so stuck in the mud about everything in your life? Your entire house must be painted black and white. That's so sad since at one time you apparently appreciated that there can be shades of grey in everything. |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 282 Registered: Apr-04 | Any difference in SOUND between the Harman Kardon HK-3380 & HK-3480?? |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 513 Registered: Dec-04 | What does a compressed 'rock' recording sound like and which examples, exactly,would you site, Gregory? Slippery when wet, Bon Jovi? A night at the opera, Queen? zz Top greatestits? And what compression rate would these releases be mastered at? For what player to 'decompress'? A pioneer player wont decompress the same way a rotel or a High Buck player does, between 16 bit and 20 bit player, so the gizmos inside a player determine the quality of the recording? Is the media the message? And how about vinyl pressings, new ones from like U2? Are they mastered as compressed as well? Limited releases assuredely, but are they mastered differently? Any amp just adds power, as you say, and additional flavour is simply distortion or additives from the engineer? This just heads down the XO route as the line goes on. And YOUR speakers have added flavour with their XO's and widgets. Your speakers are distorted and discolored, Gregory, as surely as the day is long. Quality in, garbage out. Oh such an imperfect world |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 514 Registered: Dec-04 | It's in the soul, Gregory. The soul of the machine. |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 742 Registered: Dec-03 | Nuck- Amps and cd players just play the delivered signal. Your speakers just play the signal as well as they were designed to. They neither compress or decompress. That is done by the recording producer, engineer, and masterer--and radio station engineers. They figure if it is compressed and loud, you'll listen and buy. Sophisticated digital compressors alleviate all the horrible distortion that would normally happen from hitting the cd digital"brick wall," at 90 db's, but many nuances and the "airy" quality of the recording are totally destroyed. When you hear a nicely nuanced and airy recording you can count on the fact that the compression was used very judiciously. With the pop music business having become very competitive, a myth arose among producers and record companies that the way to get one's record to stand out (in the competition for airplay) was to make it as loud as possible, ignoring the fact that radio broadcasters are able to do it too. In the old days you had some good producers, such as George Martin, that used compression very judiciously. The dynamic range in Sgt Peppers, The White album, and Abbey Road were better than 90% of rock cd's in the last 15 years. And the LP was working with a theoretical best dynamic range of 60 db's on a virgin vinyl first pressing, as opposed to 90 db's on cd's. Since CD's have a much larger dynamic range capability than LP's (90 db's compared a virgin LP master of 60 db's) theoretically, we should all hear that difference in dynamic range. The difference between a pianissimo to a forte should be almost as good as the format. Other than good classical recordings and other mostly acoustic music we usually don't experience dynamic range any better than older LP's--quite often we experience less. One finds the compression problem particularly in rock music. A classic album like Nirvana's Nevermind is heavily compressed. I have so many cd's of rock music that spend their time in the top 5-10 db's of the 90 db dynamic range that they are difficult to enjoy unless you are drunk at a party. Every production masterer uses compression. You can hear the heavy compression on Green Day's American Idiot--and it is a good album--just very limited dynamic range. Usually the classical music production masterers have too much respect for the composer and audience to mess too much with compression. Unless you are in the indie lable business, most of the big players want their mastering in rock and even country done with considerable compression. If you listen well you can easily tell which albums or cds are heavily compressed. |
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Bronze Member Username: AfrogtPost Number: 29 Registered: Dec-03 | I'm pretty sure those two HK's sound the same. Just made in different years Rick. |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 299 Registered: Apr-04 | The two HKs are current models. The 3380 is 80Wpc while the 3480 is 120Wpc. Never mind though, bought a refurbished Marantz SR4320 instead. $269.99 at www.Accessories4less.com |
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Jay Anonymous Unregistered guest | Someone mentioned the "reliability" of panasonic. I made the mistake of buying a good priced $350 Technics (made by panasonic) Receiver 5 or 6 years ago. Once I was solidly past the exchange/return period, I began seeing prices drop on the unit. I found out a few months later why. Under warranty the thing fizzled out. One return later, I was happy to exchange it for a new item. Three to four months down the line, the thing had problems again while still under warranty. As the item was older then 6 months and the electronics stores had stopped bothering to carry that model, it was sent off for repairs. Well, that particular problem was remedied. Enter non-warranty period: A seperate problem surfaced. The video switching began to drop the video signal. So, I'm very warry of Panasonic products. It's also the reason I'll only consider good deals from AUTHORIZED internet retailers. I've never really had a problem with the sound though... the moral though is clear, don't exchange, get them to repair as a manufacturing defect probably lies in the model itself. |