Loudspeaker suggestions
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New member Username: TaitoAdelaide, South Australia Australia Post Number: 2 Registered: Apr-04 | I have a Rotel rb-1080 power amp, and will soon be getting a rc-1070 preamp and a rcd-1072 CD player. I am very happy with these products, but need some help selecting loudspeakers. I'm after a pair of floorstanders, which have strong bass, good imaging and detailed reproduction. They must also have decent power handling, as the rb-1080 puts out 200W/ch into 8 Ohms. I can spend up to US$3000 on the speakers, but would prefer not to go quite that high. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 99 Registered: Dec-03 | Benjamin, You have many fine choices within your budget, let me suggest you look at Magnepan. The finest speaker I have ever heard or owned. I think you'll find it everything you will ever want in a speaker. Good luck |
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New member Username: Lockaudio801Post Number: 10 Registered: Apr-04 | Hi Benj, There are two missing items in your equation namely your ROOM size and the type of speaker cable and interconnects you intend to use.if you can give me some info on this perhaps we can come up with a suggestion. Lorenzo |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 111 Registered: Dec-03 | Lorenzo, With all due respect, are you telling us you are going to base a speaker choice, on speaker cable and interconnect choices????????? |
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New member Username: TaitoAdelaide, South Australia Australia Post Number: 3 Registered: Apr-04 | Lorenzo, my room size is about 15' by 20'. At this stage I have no idea which speaker cable or interconnects I will be using. I'm planing to let my local dealer point me in the right direction there. |
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New member Username: TaitoAdelaide, South Australia Australia Post Number: 4 Registered: Apr-04 | Rick, Thanks for the suggestion. I've had a look at maggies, but it looks like they will be very difficult to audition and purchase in Australia (I live in South Australia). Many imported brands are available here, but Maggie doesn't appear to be. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 112 Registered: Dec-03 | Benjamin, There are many fine speakers. Monitor Audio, Dynaudio, B&W, NHT, to name a few. With Rotel electronics, I thing the Dynaudios would be a good match. What have you heard to date? Also, what's available in your area? |
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New member Username: TaitoAdelaide, South Australia Australia Post Number: 5 Registered: Apr-04 | Rick, Most of the larger brands are available: Ambiance, Athena, B&W, Cerwin Vega, Dynaudio, Jamo, JM Lab, KEF, Krell, Polk, M&K, Monitor Audio, Sonus Faber and Tannoy + many more. I will look into Dynaudio. I have recently read some reviews of the MA GR-60's (and have been very impressed). Upon auditioning these, I may just have to stretch my budget a little. Any thoughts? |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 483 Registered: Dec-03 | Benjamin: I own a Rotel receiver myself which I use for stereo listening in my study, and I have a set of Dynaudio speakers in my family room (listening room) where I have my HT set-up (connected to an NAD receiver). Let me be the first to say that Dynaudios are superb speakers, but their floorstanding models are a bit wanting for the money they charge--the Dynaudio bookshelfs are much better values. But you want floorstanding, so I will suggest a few, but I cannot guarantee they will be available in Australia (although I believe they are). 1. Krix Lyrix: This is an Australian made speaker that I am sure you are aware of. Their distribution here in the US is spotty at best as they have had trouble getting a good US distributor. Nevertheless, I dearly love Krix speakers as they are very smooth and coherent sounding, with superb detail. Your Rotel receiver can be just a bit cold sounding, especially with bright speakers, but the Krix has a warm sound that balances nicely with the sound of the Rotel, and is never fatiguing. 2. B+W 700 series: I am not sure the specific model number, but there is a 700 series floorstander that is exceptionally good, albeit rather pricey. It has a smooth, warm sound that compliments your Rotel very nicely. 3. NHT ST-4: This is an exceptional speaker, a three way design with a side firing 8" woofer that provides a very impressive low end response. Overall it is a very warm speaker, with a very smooth and coherent response all across the frequency range. I know this speaker is built in China, so there is a good chance you have them available down under. They are $1K here in the States, so they should be within your price range. Anyways, this should provide you with a place to start. Good luck! |
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mark35 Unregistered guest | Hi Benjamin, Forget about Maggie cause they didn't match well with your Rotel RB1080. In my system, I have matched the followings to outstanding result: 1)Marantz SA8260 sacd player + Musical Fidelity A3.24 DAC 2)Musical Fidelity A3.2cr pre amp 3)Rotel RB1080 power amp 4)ATC SCM12 5)vdh the Magnum speaker cables and vdh Integration ic, vdh the Mainsstream powercords and Cardas Golden Reference powercord |
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Bronze Member Username: Lockaudio801Post Number: 16 Registered: Apr-04 | Rick, Of course, not unless somebody doesn't care and would use flatiron cord to convey sound on their speakers. Also knowing what cable preference user has will give one an idea which speaker to match it with. Hope this answers your query. |
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Bronze Member Username: Lockaudio801Post Number: 17 Registered: Apr-04 | Benj, If I may suggest for your room using the Rotels you consider the Mission 782SE speakers, If budget is not a problem hear the Focal-JMLab Micro Utopia's.Hooked up with Cardas Golden Cross reference speaker cables and matching interconnects for best results. Remember try the cables first if you can borrow em` home better before you decide. |
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Bronze Member Username: Lockaudio801Post Number: 18 Registered: Apr-04 | Mark35, Just curios may I know what kinda interconnects and speaker cables you are using that gives you excellent results on your system. Your information would be of valuable importance. Thanks!I know for a fact none of those components could even be heard without em` wires connecting each component to the other like blood vessels to to our human body. Hope your reading this one Rick  |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 114 Registered: Dec-03 | Lorenzo, First let me state that Cardas makes fine cables. However, in my opinion and 34 years of experience fooling around with this hobby, I can name many cables and interconnects, at a fraction of the cost, that sound just as good. I come from the camp that thinks you shouldn't spend silly money on wire. I also dont think you should wire $4000 components together with $.30 a foot lamp cord. I don't want to start another wire war on this forum. The last one wasn't pretty, so I'll end here. But to me, again for anyone to base a speaker choice on the cable or interconnect to be used is absurd. Again with all due respect. |
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Bronze Member Username: Lockaudio801Post Number: 20 Registered: Apr-04 | Rick, It doesn't mean anything when you say CARDAS makes fine cables if you yourself is not a beneficiary of it's what you say "fine" qualities.I run an audio retail store it is not my style to sell expensive cables for those who can't afford em`. But it is my duty to INFORM people about it's refinements. I have never stated here for anyone to consider spending their hard earned money on cables but what if they can? Will you deny that person the opportunity to listen to "fine" sound simply because you belong to that "camp". C'mon it's all economics on your part being a scrooge on the issue is one thing but to be a fatalist on the objective to high fidelity is twice as absurd. Now I am not suggesting one should base his speaker purchase on a particular cable. The question was addressed to Benj, I didn't know if he had one on hand already which is the essence of audio advise. For instance if Benj said he intented to use flatcord wire on the speakers he was looking for wouldn't that tell you something? C'mon nobody said you're gonna start another wire war specially not with me because I AGREE and fully believe you are indeed KING in your own mind's opinion. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 117 Registered: Dec-03 | Lorenzo, The point I am trying to make is let's make the speaker chioce using quality cables, and then educate the consumer that there may be better connection choices. To me it's not about economics or affordability. I am certainly not a scrooge regarding wire. It's about been there, done that. I have heard crap $1000 pr interconnects, and good $50 pr interconnects. I have tried the ultra high end esoteric stuff, and find most of it to be nothing more than snake oil. Wire should not be used as tone controls, it should be neutral. Clean signal in, clean signal out. I don't consider myself a fatalist on the subject, just a realist. As far as being king of my own minds opinion, let me state after 34 years I am still learning, open to new opinions, and know there are people on this board that I can learn from, and I thank them for that. |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 139 Registered: Feb-04 | Rick The snake oil merchants are at it again. "Also knowing what cable preference user has will give one an idea which speaker to match it with." An award winner surely! A good read: http://www.axiomaudio.com/archives/cable.html |
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Bronze Member Username: Lockaudio801Post Number: 23 Registered: Apr-04 | My Rantz, If you're not using snake oil products mind telling me what shampoo you are into? Scroll up I merely asked Benj to find out what he had on hand to come up with a logical suggestion.As I posted earlier if he had flatcord wires for his speakers wouldn't that tell you something? Or what if he said hey I got Valhalla here wouldn't that tell you something? As a general rule I would not advise anybody buying or upgrading cables unless they hear the product first. If one can hear an audible difference for the better then the decision to upgrade is poised upon the person.Don't forget in the land of the deaf he who hears a little is KING! |
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Bronze Member Username: Lockaudio801Post Number: 24 Registered: Apr-04 | Well Rick, You still haven't told me your personal preferences are with regards to the kind or make of cable you are using? Am waitingggggggggg! Btw your point is exactly what it is..yours |
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Bronze Member Username: Lockaudio801Post Number: 25 Registered: Apr-04 | Oh MyRantz, Thanks for quoting me hope it makes waves. It's such a compliment coming from a "silver member" like you :P |
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Bronze Member Username: Lockaudio801Post Number: 26 Registered: Apr-04 | MyRantz, That good read is BALONEY. You see all cables were made to serve a specific purpose all things being equal they should be sounding the same. But they are not all made the same way you know. You can't say your timex is better or equal to my ROLEX simply because they are both watches pal . Stop confusing people on the subject with reads that are from people with such depravity on the subject. |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 141 Registered: Feb-04 | Lorenzo My shampoo - el cheapo! Because a few more years I won't need any at all. The only logical suggestion should be based on Benji's equipment and budget which he states as US$3000 max. That puts it at around AU$2300 making it a little difficult to find quality speakers for his power handling requirements. And if he does, he may have to straighten coat-hangers to connect them. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 119 Registered: Dec-03 | Lorenzo, Please don't take any of these posts as personal attacks. They are what they are-a difference of opinions. Sometimes we can only agree to disagree. I will always defend your right, to have your own opinion. As to my choice, I use Kimber PBJ interconnects on all components, and Mapleshade Helix speaker wire. The best I can remember, the PBJ's were $78 a pair, and the Helix wire $85 a pair for 8' length. If you are familiar with either you can see the basic design theme-less is more. IMHO they sound as good as anything I've heard. As I said, it's all about choices, and to each, his own. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 120 Registered: Dec-03 | Rantz, The coat hangers would sound better than some of the junk I've heard. |
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Bronze Member Username: Lockaudio801Post Number: 30 Registered: Apr-04 | Rick, You got it all wrong man, it was you who started it. Anyway thanks for the info on your gear. Now my question would be is this if you care to respond. What if I ask you to trade em` wires for Monster cables would you agree why? And without trying to be a smart _SS what if I proposed to trade em` wires of yours for CARDAS Golden References would you accept and please tell me why either way. Be Lucky! |
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Bronze Member Username: Lockaudio801Post Number: 31 Registered: Apr-04 | Rick, Ahhh now you're talking so there is a DIFFERENCE in sound eh? Thanks you made my day! |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 121 Registered: Dec-03 | Lorenzo, I never said all wire sounds the same. What I don't buy into is manufacturers designing wire to alter or compensate for the sound of bad electronics or speakers. I will state again, interconnects and speaker wire/cable should not be used as tone controls. A good clean signal can be had with a $50 wire. Is the signal any better with the $500 wire? I think not. All I look for in wire is accuracy of sound reproduction. What difference do you think I'll get between what I have, Monster 550's, and the Cardas GR? |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 486 Registered: Dec-03 | Rick: LOL! ! ! The coat hangers remark was choice! I loved it. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 122 Registered: Dec-03 | Hawk, Thanks my friend. Who said lawyers don't have a sense of humor? As you can see, I'm dancing with both hands in my pants here. Trying hard to be what i am, a gentleman. Stay well. |
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Silver Member Username: Elitefan1Post Number: 344 Registered: Dec-03 | Rick, Your point about cables for speakers etc is well taken. I agree totally with what you are saying and to suggest "trying the cables first" is off the deep end to be sure. |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 404 Registered: Dec-03 | Nothing is as exasperating and as humorous as when science meets belief on the street. Believe it or not there have been double blind ABX tests with coat hangers as speaker connects. Obviously very short runs. Needless to say, no one could tell the difference on a statistically significant level. Then again, wire coat hangers have very thick diameters. The main difficulty was in connecting them. Needless to say I don't recommend their use:-) There are plenty of far more pliable and excellent/well-coated and reasonably thick diameter copper wires that perform wonderfully. Heck, most speakers have 125 to 300 feet of wound commercial 24 gauge Copper wound on voice coils. 12-16 gauge wire outside of the speaker is a big improvement and guarantees excellent performance on most speakers. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 123 Registered: Dec-03 | Elitefan, As always, thanks for your support. Gman, I knew sooner or later, you would catch up with this thread, and put in your two cents, and your two cents is always worth a dollar to me. To both, The voices of science, logic, and reason. Go figure! I never said I was right, but I've been through all this garbage years ago. Just my theory, one should not spend more than $100 a pair on either interconnects or speaker cable, and I know there are those who would argue that is too much. Cheers! |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 142 Registered: Feb-04 | IMHO the greatest benefit to sound from overpriced cables is the sales commission bonus at the end of the month. The more sold - the louder the holler! |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 124 Registered: Dec-03 | Rantz, Now THAT I can hear. |
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New member Username: TaitoAdelaide, South Australia Australia Post Number: 6 Registered: Apr-04 | Thanks to all who have been making helpful suggestions. Although it appears that the gates have closed (, I feel that as my email choked up, I should make you aware of my opinion (and opinion only) in the cable debate. As an electrical engineering student, I can appreciate that some of the techniques employed on highly priced interconnects do make the them more transparent. BUT, some of them do not. We should always remember that different is not always better. I whole-heartedly agree that interconnects should never be used as tone controls. Also, while a more expensive interconnect may be more transparent than one priced at (for example) US$75, this difference may be academic. The result being two cables whose difference in 'sound' is neglegible. That said, I should also clarify that my speaker budget (US$3000 or approx. AU$4000) can be stretched if I decide that the wait will be worth it. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 126 Registered: Dec-03 | Benjamin, I thank you for your educated opinion. Sorry you had to be in the middle of this mess. I feel Hawk made some excellent speaker choices in an above thread. Please give a listen, and please post back with your thoughts. |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 144 Registered: Feb-04 | Benjamin Sorry, I found your dollar conversion confusing. With a $4000 AU Budget I would agree with Hawk's recommendations and the B&W 7 series would fit your budget and are superb. It's going to depend on your power requirements. Your room size suggests maximum 150w - 200w will be more than ample. Note: some Krix speakers are 4ohm impedence. Whatever you audition, don't forget to haggle. See www.krix.com and ww.convoy.com.au Good luck with your choice. |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 405 Registered: Dec-03 | Rick--Thank you. Believe it or not, I have written many more posts that I decided not to send, because (hard as it may seem to those that read the posts I do send), I felt it would start an emotional response from those with strong beliefs and would again pit science against personal opinion/perception. And I'm not always up to emotionally and timewise dealing the upset it causes. It has always struck me as odd that almost everyone relies on video engineers numerous measurements for HDTV performance that is confirmed by personal viewing, but when it comes to audio, so many in the high end feel that it is legitimate to mostly disregard numerous measurements and graphs and rely on what they THINK are their ears. Just look at how many great reviews there were of 8 watt triode tube amplifiers with up to 3% harmonic distortion that was undoubtedly operating while clipping much of the time. Incredible. The following ALSO effect many people strongly: articles people read in most audio magazines (The Authority Belief Syndrome), the ads, the BS pseudo-science mythology that permeates the entire high end and is fed to people that don't know but want to believe: all the snake oil from green magic markers on cd's to make them sound better, freezing wires, expensive speaker wires are better than inexpensive speaker wires that measure identically (sure the technology or marketting spiel may be interesting, but what are the measurements that make them better?), expensive interconnects are better than inexpensive interconnects that measure identically, audio bricks improve sound, objects placed under or above your component improve sound (Tip Toes, etc), wires are directional (the smart electron theory), and the general notion that there are many unmeasureable things that make a difference in audio components. The unmeasureable things that make a difference in audio components are all (or certainly predominantly) psychological, group think, and belief in self-anointed experts. Most audio salon owners, audio salesmen, manufacturer's marketing departments, BS ads, pride of ownership issues, etc. often play huge roles in our perceptions. None of which is to say I am against buying expensive wires or other audio components or accessories (that often won't improve your kit at all) if you can afford it and it makes you feel better. We are human and it will always be impossible to disregard the emotionality that fires our acquisitions. I just would like a an acknowledgement of this all too human behavior and without science and double blind ABX testing most component opinions are likely to be very clouded. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 127 Registered: Dec-03 | Gregory, You are very welcome......and well said. |
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Bronze Member Username: Lockaudio801Post Number: 34 Registered: Apr-04 | Rick, Trying to explain the difference between your beloved Monsters and the Cardas Reference cables would be useless to you because you can only tell the diff between coat hangers. Hehe this is all a misunderstanding I never suggested to Benj he had to buy cables first before buying his speakers. I asked him an honest question on what he intended to use for em`. There is a valid assumption he has some sort of gear on hand because the amplifications were already given. The thing is if you fella's wanna spend the rest of your miserable lives using the mediocre cables you have simply because none of you can hear the advantage of a superior more costly one is really of no importance in the hi-end audiophile world. Let's take away costs for a sec and imagine we are in our listening rooms with our most beloved gear. You are going to listen to coat hanger wires, the Monster and the Cardas reference cables. Now if everyone here can`t tell which one apart on blind listening test then it can only be a band of idiots that you are to hypocritically declare "There's no Difference". It really is a matter of economics here if we are not suppose to look down on a depraved brother for using monster or radioshack wires which makes him happy, does it mean one cannot look up to a person using expensive gear not due to status but more because HE can tell the difference? With that said I would like to convey my thanks to everyone for the contributions on the thread most to you Rick as I extend my warm wishes to you. Birth pangs are always painful..if you say you,ve been there before consider yourself a freak because you would have been aborted for all you know. |
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Bronze Member Username: Lockaudio801Post Number: 35 Registered: Apr-04 | kudos too to the cavalry,they make good extra's for a movie! |
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Bronze Member Username: Lockaudio801Post Number: 36 Registered: Apr-04 | Benj, Rick decerns you to be the the educated one in this thread since you started it. Anyway whatever speakers you might acquire and the choices are as vast as an ocean. Don't forget one thing never pair them up with coat hanger wires it belongs in the closet! And never forget while here others started ranting for you to try this try that speaker I had the boldness to ask you what your room parameters were and the possible connections you were using. Get smart! Have fun in your search and Good Luck! |
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Bronze Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 100 Registered: Dec-03 | but again lorenzo you keep coming back to asking this question. "Hi Benj, There are two missing items in your equation namely your ROOM size and the type of speaker cable and interconnects you intend to use.if you can give me some info on this perhaps we can come up with a suggestion. Lorenzo" and then later you say "Rick, Of course, not unless somebody doesn't care and would use flatiron cord to convey sound on their speakers. Also knowing what cable preference user has will give one an idea which speaker to match it with. Hope this answers your query." what are you trying to determine here with the speaker wire or conections that will help make a speaker recomendation? |
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Bronze Member Username: Lockaudio801Post Number: 44 Registered: Apr-04 | KEGGER, Merely scroll back and give it a rest. I already answered that question. Read man read hope your vision hasn't been affected by your lack of hearing as well. |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 103 Registered: Dec-03 | you must point it out to us uninformed because i do not see it. |
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Bronze Member Username: Lockaudio801Post Number: 45 Registered: Apr-04 | KEGGER, Just for you let me put it plain and simple. For instance I started a thread asking on what speakers to use with the following associated equipment namely: Trivista 300 Int.Amp Trivista SACD/CD player Linn Sondek LP12 TT Cardas Golden Reference Speaker Cables Cardas Golden Reference Interconnects My room size is more or less 15' X 20` It would be fairly easy and professional for you to assume what kind of speaker I need right. Now whatever they are you are gonna recommend your basis would be what? Because those speakers work out fine for you? You heard it from another friend? Highly unlikely you accidentally heard the system I have together someplace with all the assoiciated gear right? So how then do you think you can help me? Guesswork? Payola? What? How? However instead what if and I mean IF, I said except for all the above mentioned gear I intend to use Dr.Barnes Coat hanger wires instead of the Cardas? Please be my guest to give me your advise. If cable selection is not critical in the pursuit of hi-end audio then the dividing line between you and me is clear. I am a hi-end audiophile you maybe at the very apex of your experience an audio kibitzer. No hard feelings pal! |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 104 Registered: Dec-03 | so if i am reading you correctly because you have a certain cable that you would suggest a different speaker based on that. and if i may ask what would that be and why? |
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Bronze Member Username: Lockaudio801Post Number: 46 Registered: Apr-04 | MyRantz at least KEGGER is a notch higher and better than You are for he seeks to be enlightened. you are at best a HYPOCRICRITICALL audio Pharisee. You crucify audio everyday pal! |
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Bronze Member Username: Lockaudio801Post Number: 47 Registered: Apr-04 | KEGGER, I asked you some questions on my last post please deal with it. Then I would be happy to answer yours. |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 147 Registered: Feb-04 | Lorenzo My final word to you - Kegger only seeks logical reasoning behind your ridiculous method of choosing speakers. As I said, you are a waste of space and threaten the integrity of this forum. You need to learn social skills badly. And how does such a Know-It-All crucify the english language? So Long! |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 105 Registered: Dec-03 | obviuosly i can't until you explain to me how! so if i am using my krean handbuilt 2 channel preamp and 2 channel combo amp both tube and solid state. with all xlo mid grade cables and monster 10 gauge speaker wire. my denon 2200 universal player using sacd in 2 channel. my room is 25' by 15' with an 8ft ceiling. what speakers would you suggest and why? |
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Bronze Member Username: Lockaudio801Post Number: 50 Registered: Apr-04 | KEGGER a.k.a Mr.I can't!, Look I asked you a legitimate question on my previous posting. If you can't answer them then I would just have to wait till you post a speaker recommendation to some poor sap audio newbie to get your point. As I said again your puny questions are simple however you must deal with mine first if you are to have a credible spot in this forum. Don't get affected by the Mr.Barnes Capt.Coathangers or the Mr.Audio Pharisee's or whoever be yourself give me a candid answer to my queries.Make it soon because if you can't then the monnicker I got for you should really stick. Ciao! |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 106 Registered: Dec-03 | ok no problem see yu. time to go! but if you may have noticed i never mentioned me giving speaker advice. i was just trying to figure out where you were coming from with the cable thing. and it looks like you don't feel like showing us. i personally do not usually purchase speakers i build them to suit certain situatuations. unless i'm just picking up maybe a small bookshelf speaker or surround. but without getting into the childish i asked you first deals. i was inquiring from you originally what you meant by the cable questions. see yu later on some far off post. |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 149 Registered: Feb-04 | Whoever emailed me please do so again. I accidently deleted it with a batch. Sorry for the inconvenience. |
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