NAD 742 and REL Quake: config issue
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Laurent Unregistered guest | Hi, I have recently bought an NAD 742 and I am quite suprised by its behavior in stereo mode since it keeps sending a signal to the sub woofer over the sub woofer output. This is extemely disappointing. Apparently it is not possible to desactivate this signal in stereo mode. The consequense is that the sub woofer is active where it should not be... Furthermore, my sub woofer (REL Quake) supports two simultaneous connections to the amp. One via the sub woofer output and another one via the main speaker terminals. Given the behaviour of my NAD I cannot use this feature because in stereo the sub woofer receives two signals... Any suggestion? |
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Silver Member Username: Elitefan1Post Number: 320 Registered: Dec-03 | Why do you not want your sub active in stereo mode? It should be active in all modes. If you don't want to hear it turn down the gain. Personally I want my sub on all the time; I turn the gain up for movies and down a bit for music. I assume you have set the crossover where you want it? |
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Bronze Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 33 Registered: Dec-03 | Laurent, presumably you are getting a sub signal whether or not the main speakers are set to 'large' or 'small' in stereo mode? I'm suprised that the NAD sends a sub signal when the mains are set to 'large' but if that is the case, I think the only way to not have a sub output is to use the 5.1 external inputs, of course that limits you to a single audio source. Typically, you should only use one of the connections on your sub at a time. You can either connect the sub out OR the front l&r speaker outputs to your sub. It all depends if you want to use the receiver's crossover for the fonts or your sub's crossover. |
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Bronze Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 34 Registered: Dec-03 | There There Ale Lite Fan, I can see not wanting the sub on for stereo music. Especially if the sub is more geared towards HT and you have decent towers. |
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Silver Member Username: Elitefan1Post Number: 321 Registered: Dec-03 | To each his own I guess. I want my receievers sub out active all the time.As I said all one has to do is turn down the gain. Very simple. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 72 Registered: Dec-03 | I have to agree with elitefan on this one. I want my sub active at all times, regardless of source or mode. I find myself adjusting gain from CD to CD in 2 channel stereo mode. |
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Bronze Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 35 Registered: Dec-03 | Sure, it could be that I just need to calibrate my sub a bit better to blend in with my mains, maybe I would prefer the sub bass output then. But in any case I would have thought setting the mains to 'large' would mean no output to the sub, do you have your mains set to 'large' or 'small'? Does your Elite always send a sub signal in stereo mode regardless of the small/large setting? BTW, I couldn't help the little name jab...I'm on a bit of medication today  . |
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Bronze Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 80 Registered: Dec-03 | I can see not wanting the sub on for stereo music. I would definitely check the speaker setting, first. If you have your speakers set to "small," which is often the case, your subwoofer should continue to receive a signal regardless of your source material. AV receivers are designed to send bass from all channels (and LFE content from movies) to the subwoofer when it falls below the specified cross-over frequency. If you listened to stereo music with your speakers set to "small," but with your sub inactive, your music would be missing a great deal of bass content. If you have your main speakers set to "large," on the other hand, the receiver probably shouldn't be sending any bass content to the sub for a two-channel source. |
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Bronze Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 36 Registered: Dec-03 |
I *think* this is Laurent's problem, the NAD T742 is sending a sub signal in this case. I'll verify this tonight with my setup. |
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Silver Member Username: Elitefan1Post Number: 322 Registered: Dec-03 | I think Darryl is right and most every receiever today operates this way and my PE45 probably does too but I have Monitor Silver 2's set to small and need to keep it that way. Smitty's quote above is correct also. Happy listening to all. |
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Laurent Unregistered guest | I sure do want the sub active in stereo mode but then I want it to only receive the signal via the high level entry. With other words I want the signal in the sub to be the same as the one received by the main speakers. At the moment the signal the sub receives in stereo mode comes from two sources namely the sub output of the amp and the high level entry. This causes unnecessary chaos... Typically I expect the sub output to only provide a signal to the sub woofer when playing a .1 source. In all other scenarios I expect the sub output to be defeated. The signal then should come from the high level entry. REL allows to set up one gain per entry so I should be able to benefit from my sub both in hifi and in hc. |
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Laurent Unregistered guest | I have checked my speaker set up and they are all set to 'Large' Nevertheless the amp is sending the sub a signal... |
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Bronze Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 81 Registered: Dec-03 | Laurent, I still don't know that you've answered the most important question: What do you have your speaker settings set to? If you have them set to "small," you should expect some bass content from all channels to go to the sub; this is the point of the "small" setting. If you have them set all set to "large," however, that's a different story... |
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Bronze Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 82 Registered: Dec-03 | By the way, unless you have a small room, I would set the speakers to "small," regardless of your speaker size. That way, the amplifier of the sub will have to put its share of the work in, without relying as much on the power reserves of the 742 (which are rather limited compared to its big brothers). Unless, of course, your sub is already under-powered. |
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Bronze Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 82 Registered: Feb-04 | Laurent, This is kind of confusing but I'll try throwing out some ideas. 1. Try disconnecting either the "subwoofer output" or the "high level entry" (not sure what you mean by that, maybe the speaker output?). You shouldn't have both connections. That may cause the "chaos" you're hearing. 2. If you want the Sub off during stereo playback, you can turn the Sub setting to off on the receiver(check page 17 of the manual to see how). If the receiver knows the sub is off, then all audio signals will be directed to the main speakers. If you only want the sub off in stereo mode, you can preset the receiver to do just that. Good luck. |
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Bronze Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 83 Registered: Dec-03 | I have checked my speaker set up and they are all set to 'Large' Nevertheless the amp is sending the sub a signal... You actually posted this as I was asking you again what your settings were at. ;-) It is odd that your 742 is still sending bass content to the subwoofer for a two-channel source then. In addition to Two Cents's suggestions, you might ensure that you haven't activated any "surround processing modes" for your input. If so, perhaps one of these modes in the 742 is redirecting bass content in some weird way. You might also call your dealer or shoot NAD an e-mail about it... |
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Laurent Unregistered guest | Two Cents, 1. The sub woofer vendor (REL) recommends to connect both entries together (www.rel.net) 2. I only want the sub off in stereo mode. I don't know how to preset the receiver to do that. Can you help? My understanding is that once you tell the receiver there is a sub then it takes this into account for all modes. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 74 Registered: Dec-03 | Are they wired at BOTH line and speaker level??? Should be either/or not both. |
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Bronze Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 83 Registered: Feb-04 | Laurent, 1. That is a really curious recommendation from REL. I'm not familiar with that particular sub. I have only one subwoofer cable connected to the receiver (T743) and it works perfectly. There's no harm in trying to disconnect one of your connections to see what happens. 2. The instructions to preset the receiver is in the T742 owner's manual. If you don't have it, you can download it from the NAD website. |
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Laurent Unregistered guest | Two Cents, 1. I have tried to only connect the sub to my receiver using the sub output. It works just fine in all different .1 mode but then again it keeps playing when listening in stereo mode which does not make much sense. 2. The only configuration I saw in the manual allows you to declare a subwoofer (On/Off). I am not aware of a menu where you can specify that in stereo the sub is off whereas in other modes it is On. |
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Bronze Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 84 Registered: Feb-04 | Sorry, Laurent, the T742 may not have the preset option. (It must be an upgraded feature on the T743.) My mistake. Although it's inconvenient, you can always turn the subwoofer setting to off manually when listening to stereo. |
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Laurent Unregistered guest | that's what NAD told me... I am not really happy with this option. I don't want to change the subwoofer setting each time I switch from a CD to a DVD. Now I wonder do all receivers send signal to the sub woofer in stereo mode? If that's the default behavior then I guess I'll have to live with that otherwise I can look at other receivers? |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 520 Registered: Dec-03 | "...do all receivers send signal to the sub woofer in stereo mode?" No, they don't. And they shouldn't. Unless you specifically ask them to. My earlier model T760 won't do it at all. I respect its judgement, which agrees with my own. If the receiver setting is "speakers large" then there should be no output from the ".1", line level, sub out. A stereo source does not carry information on any LFE channel. Stereo is 2.0. It must be some sort of cross-talk, and is surely a fault. |
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Laurent Unregistered guest | John, I will check once more if I can configure my NAD to not send the signal but I start to really doubt it will work. I can't imagine why they chose for that particular approach at NAD? Anyway.... |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 523 Registered: Dec-03 | I don't think they chose that approach. I think it is a mistake. A fault. But have a really careful and analytical re-reading of your user manuals, both for the receiver and the sub, before doing anything rash. There is a very remote chance, I suppose, that your sub cable is picking up enough interference to be giving the REL what it reasonably interprets as a signal, all the time. But I think you would hear that. And the cable REL supplies looks extrememly good. Can you actually hear programme material (music) coming out of the sub in stereo mode? You bought some great stuff, by the way. You shouldn't have problems like this with gear like that! |
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Bronze Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 37 Registered: Dec-03 | Laurent, This is the behaviour I get as well with my T742. With the speakers set to 'large' there is still sub output in stereo mode. I think the only thing you can do is either manually turn off the sub via the front panel(definately a pain, it wouldn't be as bad if this capability was on the remote) or use 5.1 inputs for your stereo source. There's not much in the T742 manual on bass management but the T752 has the following text:
which leads me to believe the T742 behaviour is to always send a signal to the sub if it's ON, even in stereo mode. I have to take my T742 into the dealer next week to fix a sporatic problem where the volume/setup dial doesn't work, I'll ask them about it then. On a similar note the following behaviour also seems a bit odd to me (from T752 manual):
I love the sound of NAD but they could sure learn a thing or two from H/K on bass management. |
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Bronze Member Username: Sssand2Post Number: 21 Registered: Dec-03 | I think NAD took the simplistic approach here. You have told the receiver that the sub is on, therefore it sends signal to the sub no matter if the speakers are set to large or small. This makes some sense as you may WANT a sub to be playing in 2 channel. Most subs do not use both inputs as the REL does. With other subs, this would not be a problem and you would get the expected behavior depending on the SUB setting in the receiver. With the T742, I don't see other options than: 1) Set the sub to off when you don't want the sub feed 2) disconnect the sub feed at the sub when in 2 channel. I am somewhat familiar with your sub as I was given a demo of the REL at a local dealer. The reason that the sub takes both inputs, from what the dealer told me was that the high level inputs augment the speakers that the sub is connected to (say the fronts). These speakers are then supposed to be set to large since you now have, in effect a full-range speaker. The sub connection is to pick-up the LFE when it is sent. This dealer actually had 3 subs connected this way one each to the fronts, center, and rears. |
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Unregistered guest | Laurent: I have spent some time playing with this on my T753. The sub is on in stereo mode (and using an analog input) just as you described regardless on whether the speakers are set to small or large. With a digital input, the sub is not on. In addition to this, in analog stereo mode, it would appear to me that the cross over frequency setting is being ignored as I believe the full 120Hz signal is being sent to the sub. I too found this most interesting but have used my presets to select when I want my sub on or off. I am still struggling with what cross over frequency to use. My towers go down to 35Hz. I welcome any thoughts from others regarding their settings. I am oscillating between 40 and 60 Hz crossover frequency settings on my NAD. TC |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 243 Registered: Dec-03 | I too thought of the preset thing as a possible cure for Laurent's problems, but I don't think the 742 has preset capabilities. It would seem fairly easy to set "preset 1" to have the sub on and "preset 2" to have the sub off. I do something similar when listening to movies or music as I have different channel levels I prefer for each. |
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Unregistered guest | Johnny: May I get your thoughts on my sub settings? Thanks TC |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 244 Registered: Dec-03 | TCSmith, I wish I could help you, but I have bookshelf speakers, and am thus kind of "forced" to have mine set to "small". I am kind of glad I have bookshelves as well...it takes some of the guesswork out of all of the bass management stuff. For your situation, I would not necessarily set your crossover for the exact frequency that your speakers go down to. I have heard many people argue that you should still set the crossover fairly high as to send more low frequency sound to the sub...thus releiving some of the strain on your receiver and your main speakers...and making everything sound better in the process. Some people who do have full range tower speakers still set their speakers to "small" for this very reason. Elitefan does that I think. So, I guess my main point is if you like your crossover set that low, then so be it, but don't set it there just because that is how low your speakers go...if that makes any sense. You can always try setting it to 80Hz or 120Hz and see how it sounds. If you still like the lower setting, then I think you have your answer. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 537 Registered: Dec-03 | TC, My thought on sub crossover settings is simple. Speaker-level connection (for stereo): the frequency below which your mains are compromised by having to deliver all that bass. Try it and see. In your case, it could be 40 Hz. Line level connection (for LFE channel of home theatre): 120 Hz (one of the few things that Dolby and DTS agree on). Glad to see you're back. |
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Unregistered guest | Johnny: Thanks for your input. I believe my full range speakers should be providing as much of the frequency range as possible and the sub should be used just for those frequencies outside of the other speaker's range. However, I may be incorrect in my thinking. Things certainly were a lot simpler in the days of 2.0 stereo. All I had to concern myself with was bass and treble! I would be interested in input from anyone using full range speakers. I am curious what others have set their crossovers to. TC |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 538 Registered: Dec-03 | TC, My mains roll off - 3dB at 40 Hz. I use the sub only for the LFE channel of 5.1, whether "real", or synthesised from EARS. I currently have the crossover set to 100 Hz. It would be 120 Hz, but I cannot stand the explosions from TV and radio presenters with lip microphones. |
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Unregistered guest | Hi John: Are you suggesting that I set my crossover to 120 Hz when listening to home theatre? TC |
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Bronze Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 84 Registered: Dec-03 | I read the manual for the 743, and it indicates that bass content should only be sent to your sub for channels set to "small" (and the LFE of DVDs, of course). So, at least for those who have a 7X3 model with all speakers set to "large," while listening to a 2-channel source, I don't believe you should be getting output to your sub. And, if you do, you should probably consider making NAD aware of it. Unfortunately, the manual for the 742 really doesn't get into any level of detail, but I would assume that it should work in much the same way as the 743 in terms of it basic small/large/off speaker settings. |
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Unregistered guest | John: Our posts crossed. Thanks for the input. So if I understand this correctly, any frequency below 100Hz, which would normally be handled by your towers, is now being redirected to your sub? Why would you not let your towers take care of this? TC |
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New member Username: StevebanseePost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-04 | I have a T753. In stereo with speakers set to large or small I get output from the sub will all analog signals. With a digital signal, output from the sub occurs only when the speakers are set to small. This is the way the T753 works as confirmed with NAD tech support (or that is what they told me). Steve |
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Bronze Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 85 Registered: Dec-03 | The manual of the 753 specifically states: NOTE: You can set Subwoofer to "On" even with "Large" front speakers, in which case bass content from any channels set to "Small" will be routed to both the subwoofer and to the front speakers; LFE-channel signal will pass only to the sub... The implication, of course, is that if you don't have any channels set to "small" and are not listening to a 5.1 source (with LFE), no bass should go to the sub. This is, in fact, the correct operation for an AV receiver (NAD or otherwise). If you sent full-range signals to all channels (assuming they were all set to "large") and bass content to the sub, you would get unwanted "bass doubling." |
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Unregistered guest | Darryl: You are correct with your thoughts regarding bass doubling, however, as Steve has mentioned, the 753 does drive the sub when in stereo, with an analog input and all speakers set to large, regardless of what their manual states. I can't imagine why they did this, but they did. TC |
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Bronze Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 86 Registered: Dec-03 | I can't imagine why they did this, but they did. And if that's the case, NAD should probably explain why... |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 539 Registered: Dec-03 | TC, Sorry to be slow to respond. It is our different time zones. The specification for the LFE channel on any 5.1 recording, for both DTS and DD AC-3, is that it extends from 20 to 120 Hz. I forget the slope. In fact DTS and Dolby call each other names about the extent to which their formats reach to 120 Hz in practical terms. In LFE mode, the sub frequency control is not truly a "crossover", it is a long-wavelength (low frequency) pass, i.e. short wavelength (high frequency) blocking, "filter". In theory you don't need it all, but I find, on my sub, it hums a bit if I set the control to max (150 Hz), and the hum diappears if it is set to 120 Hz. My current 100 Hz setting is a compromise, to set my mind at rest about residual hum, and eliminate to some extent the ludicrous explosions from plosive consonants such "P" and "B" obtained in speech on broadcast material where announcers, in particular, tend to have microphones far too close. BBC is mostly exempt, but not always. Some commercial stations have no idea where to put microphones, and interviews are conducted as if in the middle of a minefield. I experimented with speaker-level connections. Since I don't have a REL sub (wish I did) I have to reconnect everything to change. So I don't use speaker-level sub connection at all for HT, or, now, for DVD-A. I greatly value having the full range (or as much as possible) from all channels. Also, the sub doesn't really add much in stereo mode; I can happily do without it. So I keep the LFE line-level connection all the time, now. Then you get whatever the recording engineers decided to put on the 5.1 channels. In the end we are in the hands of recording and sound engineers who created the source material. I frequently feel I could have done a better job, but life is too short for obsessive fiddling with your hi-fi between every recording and source, I'd rather just listen to the programme material. One feature of my sub I particularly like is it has a standby mode, and switches itself on when it gets a signal, from whichever source. I auditioned one sub at home that didn't have that, it was a complete pain. I am with Darryl, if I understand correctly. What do you do, TC? I am always looking for a better way! |
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Unregistered guest | John: Thanks for your indepth response. I played around with different sub settings and have finally found one that, in my opinion, sounds the best. I want to use my towers to their full frequency range and then send the lower frequencies to the sub. This is how I believe a seamless system should work. (Just my thoughts here.) In order to do this I programmed two presets into my NAD. The first was with all speakers set to large and the sub off. The second was with all speakers set to small and the sub on. I then manually turned down the sub gain at the sub so it effectively was not amplifying any signals sent it's way by the receiver. I then varied the sub frequency crossover on the NAD from 40-120Hz and switched between presets listening for the frequency at which I could hear a decrease in the bass of the towers when I selected the preset with the sub on. This, to me, was the point at which frequencies that the towers can handle are now being sent to the sub. By doing this, I have found, to my ears anyway, the "real" low frequency limit of my receiver/tower combination. I set the sub frequency to the point where I could hear no drop in bass between towers without sub and towers with and sub, remembering that the sub's gain is still minimum. So, to hopefully clarify, at this point the system sounds the same with all speakers set to large and no sub and all speakers set to small and sub on. I then turned up the sub's gain so that I could just begin to hear it, barely, when listening to some bassy music. So, to my way of thinking, the sub is now amplifying frequencies that the towers can't produce anyway. I had to tweek this sub gain setting slightly but now have it so I do not change the settings for music or video. I tested the setting by watching Finding Nemo and think I have it about right. The sub isn't always on but is there when it's required. I remember someone, it may have been you John, mentioning the scene where Darla taps on the glass. I must say this is almost painfull it's so loud. My pictures begin to rattle on the walls, and I haven't seen the cat since.  I have no idea how others set their subs but maybe this will help someone else. Assuming I did something correct here. TC |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 549 Registered: Dec-03 | TC, Yes, it seems to make good sense. You obviously understand what these things are doing, and the principles involved. My T760 has rather restricted pre-sets, ony three, in fact: All large plus sub All small plus sub Fronts large, surrounds small, no sub. They have all been useful, but I am now settled on pre-set 1. These all work only on digital inputs, with DD or DTS, or else with EARS or Prologic operating on stereo (whether analogue or digital input). I do not have the option of using the sub at all in stereo, at least connected to the LFE channel, unless the source is one of the rare, earlier Dolby Digital 2.1 discs - they often don't say that on the disc! I wonder whether many people actually know what to do with all these choices. It seems unnecessarily complex, even on my simpler system, but as soon as the maker restricts options, then people complain they are being told what is good for them, which I have read as a criticism of the T760. Fortunately, my own preferences are all available. The problem I have not solved is huge bass on some Dolby Digital discs, which I now suspect comes from the recording engineers putting the LFE material on both the LFE channel and the main channels. Remember many people play DVDs only in stereo, with analogue interconnects, so the bass has to be on the two main channels, I assume. DTS does not allow this, so there is no need for DTS to get mixed up about where the LFE material should be. |
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Laurent Unregistered guest | Dear all, Thanks already for your fantastic feedback! I have now confirmation from NAD that the T742 always sends signal to the subwoofer regardless of the mode. This behavior appears to be a "standard" in the industry since other vendors seem to adopt the appraoch. I am now looking at alternatives for my T742... Apparently the preset could be an option: I would declare a subwoofer and all my speakers as Large in Preset 1 (HC). Preset 2 (music) would consist of all speakers set to Large but no sub. What is your experience with the preset of the T753? Is is easy to switch from one preset to the other? |
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Unregistered guest | Two button presses are required on the remote. It is very easy. TC |
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Laurent Unregistered guest | It sure sounds easy. Would there be a receiver from another make of the same quality as the NAD that would allow to define that preset once for all? This would suppress the need to even think of pushing two buttons. any idea? |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 571 Registered: Dec-03 | Laurent, The NAD HTR-2 "learning" remote control is a great addition. I think it comes with any T7x3 receiver, but you can buy it separately, as I did. It will learn the commands from any other remote, you just place them head-to-head and record. Mine happily now controls stuff from Sony and Nokia, as well as NAD. I mention this because you can also record "Macros" - any sequences of button presses you like. Each one is then called up and executed, with a single button press, in Macro mode. |
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New member Username: DocdatPost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-04 | OK I have to say I don't understand what the fuss is about. By far most people (myself included) want to be able to use the sub in stereo. If you don't want to, then don't turn on the sub when you're listening to stereo! As for using the speaker inputs on the sub at the same time as the line level inputs, it's a really bad idea. Even using just the speaker level inputs is a bad idea if you have the option of using a sub out / LFE out. Most higher end subs don't even have speaker level terminals because it's an option that is only relevant when you don't have a sub out on your receiver and it provides poorer sound quality compared to using the line level sub out. John A, I have the T760 too, and I have repeatedly cursed the inability to use the sub out in stereo. I've gone as far as trying the pre-out instead. My sub is good enough for music, so I should be able to decide myself wether to use it with stereo or not for bass extension below the front speakers. One of my top priorities for a replacement for the T760 is just that option. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 585 Registered: Dec-03 | Adam, Thanks. I agree. Except I am very happy with my T760. The sound quality is extraordinary. I have just discovered DVD-Audio, and, with it, what the T760 is really capable of. Using the pre-amp outs should solve the problem. Does it not? In fact, I think the reason for having separate L and R inputs into a sub (which is an active speaker, and mono) must be to cater for those who like stereo but do not have two subs, and so wish to merge the L and R stereo low-frequencies into a single sub. |
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New member Username: DocdatPost Number: 2 Registered: Apr-04 | John, I've been very happy with my T760 too, but now the center channel doesn't work anymore, so it'll have to be replaced  (Don't want to spend money fixing it) Using the pre-outs for the sub is ok for stereo audio. However in DD, Pro logic, EARS and DTS mode the bass is weaker than when using the LFE/sub out. This means I'd have to switch the plug everytime I changed between listening to stereo and multichannel audio. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 593 Registered: Dec-03 | Adam, It should be simply to get the center channel fixed. But combine that with the desire for another feature, and you have good cause for looking for something else, I understand the feeling. I have no special expertise, but have successfully done some of my own repairs on my T760. |
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New member Username: DocdatPost Number: 5 Registered: Apr-04 | Well I'm willing to try fixing it if I can. I just wouldn't know where to start. I also don't exactly have a lot of soldering experience ;) |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 594 Registered: Dec-03 | Adam, Personally, I find one of the pleasures of having an older model is that I cannot void the warranty, because there isn't one! Any person with normal amounts of curiosity will surely find it interesting to take the cover off, and see what's inside. I admit that I have known people who have never looked under the "hood" (aka "bonnet") of their cars, but it's fairly rare. It is possible you don't even need to solder. But even if you do, there is no magic art. A soldering iron is cheap, and probably the instructions that come with it are all you need. Plus a small roll of solder. Anyone's first soldering job is likely to be better than the original; he/she will give it a few minutes, and the original was probably done in a second. The main trick is to know that the heat from the iron should be conducted away from the component. You use a pair of pliers to hold the wire at a point between the soldering job and the component the wire is connected to. That way, the pliers act as a heat sink, conducting heat away from the component. It could just be you can find the fault by visual inspection. Medium cross-point screwdriver is all you need. There are three bolts on each side of the metal case; four smaller ones, around its lip over the back panel. Undo bolts. Side of case can be flexed out, it will not acquire a permanent bend, or break, unless you sit on it. Pull case back from under lip at top of front panel. Raise and remove. Admire the view. I particularly enjoy the power supply board, with its enormous, toroidal transformer and capacitor like a small munitions shell. Also the big aluminium heat sink, in the middle, with the power amp board just to one side. That's where all the Watts really go; to heat. Start looking for the problem at the point where the center speaker terminals connect. Just follow wire back and see if anything is visibly out of order (e.g. detached end of wire; visible component damage). There is nothing in there that cannot be replaced. Mostly in a couple of minutes. Mostly for pennies. And it could just be a bad connection. If you can fix it, you have saved buying a new one, the sound of which will not be any better than that of the T760. If I have put you off, then I apologise! I personally find immense satisfaction in trying to understand how things work. It is philosophically rewarding, too, but that is off topic! Also, you will have struck a decisive blow against the view that audio components work by magic, and need to be blessed by a being with special knowledge and authority. This is my ulterior motive in writing this. Anyway, it takes all sorts. The music is the thing, I would be first to agree. |
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New member Username: DocdatCopenhagenDenmark Post Number: 6 Registered: Apr-04 | John I have indeed looked at the inside of the receiver, also before I had problems with it, just to check it out. I also find great satisfaction in understanding things, and usually fix everything I can in my computer, on my bike etc. I've also looked at the insides of the receiver after the problem, but I can't see any burnt out components, or obvious loose connections. I am fairly certain though that it's a bad connection, as the sound comes and goes randomly. One day the center will play fine, the next it'll be silent all day no matter how many times I "reboot" the reciever or tweak the speaker wires/terminals. I think I would need a multimeter to first find the bad connection and I'd have to take out some of the circuit boards to gain access. A bit daunting. Since one of my friends have already said he wanted to buy it, I'd be worried of causing any damage that might impact the other channels, and thus loosing the money I'd get for it. Do you really think that the T753 doesn't sound better than the T760? I'm going to audition it tomorrow. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 603 Registered: Dec-03 | Adam, Great. I see where you are coming from! "Do you really think that the T753 doesn't sound better than the T760? I'm going to audition it tomorrow. " Well, be sure to let us know! BTW Please take the T753 apart, too! I think you will find the essential layout and particularly the power supply and power amp stages are pretty much the same. All the best. |
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New member Username: DocdatCopenhagenDenmark Post Number: 8 Registered: Apr-04 | I just spent an hour at the hifi store listening to both the Denon 2803 and NAD T753, and I was expecting the T753 to slaughter the 2803. However I was pleasantly surprised by the Denon. They've come a long way from the 2802. Multichannel music and movies was excellent. The T753 destroyed it in stereo though. I didn't get a chance to watch a movie with either receiver. Without trying it on my own speakers with more time and a lot more material, I can't say which is better yet(T753 vs T760). With the Eagles DTS DVD, the 2803 gave a larger seeming soundfield with more details and clarity, but not harsh as the Denons used to be. I could tell that the DSP/DACs are better in the Denon than in the NAD. However I didn't get a chance to try the T753 with an external decoder. Then it would probably have been a very different story. In stereo it was no contest. The NAD was clearly more powerful and detailed, but still easy on the ears. The speakers I tried them on was a very expensive B&W setup (703+705+HTM7) and a less expensive Dali Suite setup. As for hum and fan noise from the T753, I couldn't detect any. If I put my ear right next to the speakers I could hear a slight hiss, but nothing detectable from even a very close listening position. Bottom line: I'm in a bit of a dilemma. Do I get the more expensive NAD and then later buy a DVD player with a better built-in DD/DTS decoder? I am going to go back and listen some more with other material and also try to borrow a demo model. I'll have some time to think this over, as I have to wait till the end of the month before I can afford either option ;) |
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Bronze Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 41 Registered: Dec-03 | Adam, You mentioned:
The problem with the T742 is just that this process is a pain in the ***. For one thing the speaker settings are global, you can't set them to one setting for stereo and another for HT. Another problem is that you can't make speaker setting changes via the remove (the newer T743 allows for this). However, you have to go to the front panel and change it via a series of button pushes and turning the volume/setup dial. I admit that it's not the end of the world, it's more of a usability thing. After trying various configurations though I prefer the speakers set to small and the sub on for stereo anyway ;). Another option if you have decent DACs in your CD player and want the sub off for stereo is to connect them to the 5.1 inputs. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 615 Registered: Dec-03 | Adam, Thanks for that report. I cannot really advise, except, as always "you pays your money and you takes your choice". Smitty, Lack of unnecessary features is OK, but there does come a point where the complication of setting things up gets to be a barrier to listening at all. Ideally you could set it once, and then leave it alone, but we do want our electronics to do so many different things, these days. I am still big on sound quality, and will forgive a lot if it is basically a great sound. I have forgotten whether I have plugged my NAD T533 DVD-Audio player review with you guys here: NAD T533 DVD/CD player user's review, and DVD-Audio. The speaker delay settings on that player are a real fiddle, but I will forgive practically anything for that sound at that price. |
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