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Unregistered guest | Hi, I want to put together a starter (entry Level) HT componenets for around $1500. I have decided on either an Onkyo 602 or a Dennon 1706. This leaves me $1000 for the speakers. So far I have listened to Def Tech, Klipsch, Polk Monitor 50/60, Energy Take 5. Def Tech and Klipsch were way over 1K. Energy was good for movie but not so good for music. So now I am down to Polk Monitor 50/CR 1/Monitor 30/PSW 8 which is coming around 1K. If any one has any sggestions on any other combination please let me know. |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 233 Registered: Mar-04 | for japanese recievers... denons tend to be just a little bit higher spec than onkyo. i chose onkyo simply because i liked it's simpler design and cleaner lines. denon isn't the most attractive looking gear. if i had your budget... i'd get an NAD reciever instead, because it's one of the only budget lines that lets you use the 4 ohm speakers that i lust over... magnepans. for your budget, i'd get a $500 or so NAD reciever $500 magnepans and not being a bass freak, would skip a $500 subwoofer which you might want maggies kick all kinds of butt in the midrange. they make vocals sound way more real than traditional speakers. they also move way more air in the midrange than traditional speakers with 6 1/2" or smaller midranges. they also move all that air at "the speed of light" (as in lightweight hair thin planar drivers) personally, i'd like to give my pudgy 12" sub up to use maggies just for the lighning fast and totally clear bass! i like the rollof too. if you can, go to a store that sells maggies and give them a listen. after being a diehard acoustic suspension minimonitor fan for 20 years, $1200 maggies blew me away and totally changed my priorities because they sound so realistic and un speaker like and are so darn fast. i honestly liked the $1200 maggies playing on simarly priced gear MORE than $20,000 B&Ws playing on equally expensive McIntosh gear. the maggies were just so much quicker and effortless in the midrange. to be fair... the B&Ws had much deeper bass, more treble extension and imaged better, but the maggies just sounded more organic and effortless. as good as they sound for the price... maggies shouldn't be a "best kept secret" the smaller and cheaper MMGs (factory direct only) should image a little better than the $1200 larger pair i auditioned, and actually have the highest treble extension until you reach the $3,700 price point for maggies, so they should have more of the treble that seemed polite on the pair that rocked my world. before you take the plunge, do try to hear maggies if you can. the biggest difference between models is really how deep they go in the bass. magnepan even lets you try them risk free in your home to see if you like them (might lose out onn shipping though) if i didn't have a 4 ohm hating onkyo, i'd probably already have a pair or 2 (surrounds) of MMGs myself. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1595 Registered: Mar-05 | nshahi, I'd take Denon, Marantz, or HK over Onkyo. I'd stay away from the Polk Monitor series: poor quality and poor value. I'd look at a pure digital Panasonic sa-xr55, about $240 shipped from Amazon.com for the best bang for the buck---it's been favorably compared to receivers costing over $1000. I'd set aside at least $400 for a quality sub from SVS or Hsu. I'd stick to simple 8-ohm speakers which don't require super amps like the Maggies do. Where are you, BTW? If you are in North America there are lots of Internet dealers and Internet-direct manufacturers who offer far better value than shopfronts. |
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nshahi Unregistered guest | Hello Edster, I am in San Jose, California. I am leaning more towards the Denon as I listened to both Denon and Onkyo on the same speaker sets. The Denon sounded more "Rich" where as Onkyo was very clear but a little more on the "High Pitched" side, for lack of a better word a little "Shrill". I am looking at internet to get a better deal so may be I can move up a model on the Denon. I had looked at Panasonic receivers in HTIB model and was very impresses by them. If my budget was around $400 I would probably buy the Panasonic HTIB becasue they are the best in that price range. I already have an Onkyo bookshelf system which I am very impressed and happy with. For the speakers I have done some more research and am planning to audition the follwoing: B&W 600 Dynaudio Paradigm and may be Canton or Meridien. After listening to those and knowing their price I will have a better idea. In response to the the post from Budgetminded, I did not consider NAD in my original list so I will look into them. Although I read online on some post that they may have some quality problem. Regarding the speakers I would like to stay with the 8 ohms as I want the flexibility on my receivers and not needing to invest more money in additional amps. Thanks, /nshahi |
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T2T Unregistered guest | If you're looking at DynAudio, you'll spend nearly your $1,500 budget for just the front two monitor speakers. These are not bargain speakers, but speakers that sound beautiful when paired with nice gear to drive them with. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoPost Number: 592 Registered: Oct-04 | Ascend Acoustics has a great deal on their speakers plus sub within your budget using their system advisor. http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/purchase/advisor.mv#bottom Check out some reviews, they score very positively at their price point with a very linear response graph. Also good reading are the below threads comparing the Ascends to the Alegria Audio Lings, which judging by other poster's reviews are some excellent speakers at their price as well. https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/146884.html https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/151678.html |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummPost Number: 229 Registered: Feb-05 | Im BAAACK!!!! Klipsch Reference RSX 3 satelite system based home thestre systems are awesome sounding in the mids ( right between my paradigms and maggies) and not too bright in the highs do to the shorter horns. I now own a pair for my "whatever" speakers, replacing my Paradigm minis. I believe a RSX 3 or 4 based system is in your price range, and is awesome for both music and movies. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1599 Registered: Mar-05 | nshahi, the best bang-for-your buck local retail speaker I found were the Paradigms, and for Internet direct the Ascends. When making your rounds speaker-auditioning (mainly useful for you to figure what TYPE of sound you like) keep in mind that a large part of your impressions will be influenced by each shop's particular room accoustics, amplifier and CD sources---meaning that the same pair of speakers in your room at home with your equipment might sound quite different. So an in-home audition is IMO the best way to go...there are still some small independent shops which will allow you to do so with demo or open box gear. The beauty of Internet-direct speakers is that you have a 30 day trial period during which you can return the speakers and pay only return shipping (about $20-30 for most non-behemoth speakers). You also need to figure out what % of your use will be HT versus music. If I were buying an HT-only system I would not spend more than $400-500 on the receiver and would put more money into the subwoofer ($400-600 and definitely go Internet direct with Hsu or SVS) and front 3 speakers. Also ask yourself what kinds of movies you watch most often---if you're not big into Hollywood action/thriller movies then surround sound is a waste of money IMO when 2.1 or 3.1 will be fine. The Panasonic sa-xr55 I recommended is NOT an HTIB receiver, so if you liked Panny HTIB receivers you'll be doubly happy with the 55. |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 239 Registered: Mar-04 | i wouldn't exactly call NAD a "super amp" to my ears... $1200 maggies sound much better (their lightning fast speed and seemless midrange) than $20,000 stereophile class-a B&Ws. a $500 pair of MMGs has to be the best value going in hi-fi. i might even get my muffled old 20wpc NAD (underpowered for maggies, i know) repaired just so i can give MMGs an extended in home audition. they just sound so incredibly effortless they gave me goosebumps. (MG12s) i imagine that i could happily live with MMGs for the rest of my life as everything i've read states that all models sound similar except in their bass extension. that MMGs are smaller than MG12s, they should image better, and they're actually rated 2k higher in treble extension. i want em' i want em' i want em' as surrounds too. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1602 Registered: Mar-05 | > i wouldn't exactly call NAD a "super amp" compared to a Hafler or McIntosh, no. compared to other amps in the same price range, yes. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1545 Registered: Feb-05 | If you want Maggies to sing you had best come to the dance with serious power. At least 200 watts into 4 ohms (I suggest even more). BTW budget, don't believe everything you read. The MG12 outclasses the the MMG by a wide margin. |
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Bronze Member Username: RikmeisterHometown, Pa Usa Post Number: 36 Registered: Jun-05 | i would listen to speakers as you are. but i would look at audiogon or ebay for great used or demo speakers. you can save a bundle and get great speakers just broken in. YOu could get the quad 21L for 890.00 great speakes. also look at axiom and rocket and swan speakers. You can find good deals on dynaudio and vienna acoustic and totem if you are patient. remember he who is patient and knowledgeable always catches the worm. |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 255 Registered: Mar-04 | from what i've read... different maggies pretty much sound the same except in the amount of bass they put out. i would like the MMGs better i'm sure. their tweeters are rated for 2K more extension than the MG12 which i DID find to be a little too polite for my tastes. i'm a treble freak... not a bass freak. besides... smaller speakers = more precise imaging. i've been a superzero zealot for a long time for a reason. LOL i'm thinking that i'm going to get my NAD fixed so i can use it for my sub again at the worst, or to be able to give MMGs a test drive that never ends at best. i love my NHT zuper zeros which have tighter midbass and that image better than $1000 B&Ws, but they can't compete with maggies in the speed department. i live in an apartment... getting up and boogying is the last thing i need to be doing if i want to stay in it. besides, i already own a sub and can even stand to listen to TRULY anemic superzeros (nothing below 70Hz) full range. lightning fast totally coherent resonance free midrange is a thing of beauty to me. i WISH onkyo could handle 4 ohm loads. if $1200 maggies can impress me more than $20,000 B&Ws... then $500 maggies would SURELY be a big step up from my superzeros which had a reputation as "the best speakers under $1000 except in the bass" when they first came out. i still love them... but maggies have won me over. |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 256 Registered: Mar-04 | bear in mind too... that this thread is based on a budget. if you already have maggies, then you must like them too. would you rather have $500 maggies or $500 box speakers? i'm DONE for box speakers. LOL |
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New member Username: Qin107San Jose, CA Post Number: 1 Registered: Aug-05 | Edster, I am pretty much on the same line of thinking reagarding the distribution of the dollars in HT that < 500 for Receivers and mostly for Subs and front 3. Regarding the speakers, Ebays refurbished ones provide anywhere from 250-400 range, so I would probably go that route instead of the pannies. I will have to agree with you regarding the ascend speakers. So far from the reviews and price point fo view they are the fron runners. Has anyone had any experience with: 1. Aperionaudio speakers. They have great reviews on cnet and other magazines and super buying programs, but I have not come across a single message on any of the message boards except their own. 2. Onkyo SKS 207 http://www.shoponkyo.com/detail.cfm?productid=SKS-207&modelid=4&group_id=1&detai l=1&ext_war=0 They seem to be a little underpowered, but would like to know if anyone has used them. RIK, I checked audiogon and its a great site for used speakers. However, I feel I am ot experinced yet to venture in that territory yet. May be after few rounds of owning some gears.. |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 258 Registered: Mar-04 | i don't have experience with THAT particular onkyo reciever, but i DO love my 55wpc $250 DTS onkyo reciever with my polite soft dome tweetered NHT superzeros. my NAD dedicated 2 channel sounded downright muffled with superzeros while the onkyo totally opened the treble up and improved imaging dramatically. onkyo has a reputation for being bright (which is probably why i hated my mission m71s) but with treble polite (soft dome) tweeters, it's a great match. denon might be an even better bet as it tends to outspec onkyo for the same $$$, but i chose onkyo for it's cleaner/simpler looks. if you go with metal domes or bright speakers... onkyo might not be the best choice just as NAD is a terrible choice for polite speakers. |
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New member Username: Qin107San Jose, CA Post Number: 2 Registered: Aug-05 | Budgetminded, I was talking about the Speaker SKS 207 and not the receiver. Today I auditioned 2 speakers. PSB Stratus Silver + center and Image Surround. Total cost $1677 + Sub Cost. This was by far the best audition so far. However, they are way over budget. 2. Another one auditioned today was NHT - 4. Not impresses at all. This is off the list now. I am really looking forward to doing auditions for the Paradigm, MA and B&W. Anyone has the PSB. ANy comment on the experience so far. Thnx. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1625 Registered: Mar-05 | Nshahi, if you're in southern Cal I'd register at the Ascend forum and track someone down who'd let you come over and listen to their speakers, I know there are plenty of Ascend owners there. Also the Ascend office is in the vicinity, I've heard they're very cool with people coming in for a listen. For HT the Ascends' stunning detail and neutrality is hard to beat especially if you're on a budget. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 219 Registered: Jul-05 | San Jose is Nor Cal Eddie... |
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Bronze Member Username: Frostyda9Calgary, AB Canada Post Number: 35 Registered: May-05 | "PSB Stratus Silver + center and Image Surround. Total cost $1677 + Sub Cost" What centre? I am assuming that is with the image centre not the matching Stratus one? Even so, that's a crazy deal. The Silvers are also quite capable of being used without a sub =) |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1630 Registered: Mar-05 | yikes, you got me there DA. It'd still be worth a what, 3 hour drive south IMO. On the other hand with gas prices being what they are and CALIFORNIA gas prices being what they are, he might be better off just paying for return shipping on the darn things. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 222 Registered: Jul-05 | 5 and half hours actually from my house which is ~30 miles away from San Jose. |
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New member Username: Qin107San Jose, CA Post Number: 4 Registered: Aug-05 | Edster, I will definitely try out the Ascend since I have yet to find a single review negative of it. I will try out the front L/R first and if they sound good cann order the whole system otherwise they go back. Which one should I try the 340 or the 170. I listen to music 70% of the tme. 30% is movies. I would like to have the ability to listen to them loud. Frosty, The PSB models are the ones which the dealer told me. I didnot verify or get it in writing. The dealer said he is giving me the wholesale rate. i saw him adding all the price then he added 10% on top of that. The the 8.25% CA tax.. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1645 Registered: Mar-05 | I own the 340s across the front but when I recently ABed them against the 170s actually preferred the 170s by a nose...at low and moderate levels the 340s had a fuller sound and certainly better bass response but when cranked I felt that they didn't retain control of the highs whereas the 170s remained flat throughout. If you are on a budget and don't have a huge room, I'd get the 170s L/R. For HT the 340 center is worth the extra money for movies and TV, it really does dialogue beautifully---I found I didn't need to turn up the volume as much to understand what the actors were saying. |
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New member Username: Qin107San Jose, CA Post Number: 7 Registered: Aug-05 | As I add more to my system I am definitley keeping this on my mind. But right now just want to get a 5.1 to get started with watching DVDs as well. I auditioned the Paradigm today. I was very excited. But came out disappointed from the store. -I listened to Monitor 5 and Monitor 11. Too much Base. The sound was a little muddy and I coundn't clearly hear all the higs/mid properly. -I alsolistened to Reference 40 and 100. 40 was better but lacked the clarity. The only one I liked was 100, but they are $2300/pair. So I am dropping Paradim from the list. The sales guy would not even let me listen to the performance series which I believe 20-30% cheaper. He said they are more like the Monitor.. BAsed on my experience with the Paradigm, is it worth trying out the B&W and MA.. I understand they are much higher onn price comp to Paradigm. So far on the shortlist, it is PSB, Ascend and Aperion Audio ( I want to givem it a try ; it's free shipping and no tax). /niraj |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 244 Registered: Jul-05 | Since you're in the area of their retail stores, have you checked out Cambridge Soundworks? They have an outlet at the Great Mall, and are at least worth a look. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1686 Registered: Mar-05 | I would've bought the Monitor 5 if I had gone local, it's the strongest of the Monitor line IMO though as you correctly point out the extra bass is paid for by some muddiness. I think you'll find that the Ascends are clearly superior, some people claim the 170s are comparable to the Studio 20s and the 340s to the 40s, though the Studio line is about twice the price...I haven't heard the Studio series so can't comment on that. By all means try Aperion, with 2-way shipping paid you have nothing to lose and it'd be interesting to AB them against the Ascends though other shootouts involving them were not very flattering of the Aperions. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rysa4Post Number: 21 Registered: Jul-05 | Howdy. I have PSB speakers in a music system and just bought a pair of Ascend 170s for a separste music system. Either I believe would serve well for HT duties. The AScends howvere, can be paired with a stronger same brand center channel, fairly important for HT. The Denon is a good choice for a basic HT center and is what I use. It does not have the same quality characteristics in the power/amp section as separstes or other some other brands if integrated amps and receievers; HOWEVER, Denon has excellent signal processing capabilities and bass management, the two keys for good HT when using efficient speakers. The 1706 should serve you well and is more than adequate! Since you will crossover at 80HZ to the subwoofer, frequency extension below 60HZ is unimportant for HT. There are many good choices for satisfying HT as far as speakers; AScend 170s are fine; Klipsch RB series is good; AAD E-series is effective. My bias in HT is livliness, and nothing recessed as far as sound; I have a paradigm center that I dont use which was pretty good actually. I have an energy subwoofer, also unused, which was only Mediocre for a sub ( 8.2 model). Trying to do music and HT together involves some compromises but I used to have it that way too. IN that instance I had two floor standers Sterophile class B total overkill for HT and not correctly placed for music and a suboptimal pairing with a Denon receiever. But I did it anyway and enjoyed music just fine. Maggies are not a great choice for HT but great for music IMHO especially when paired well with a sub. They require a different class of juice than what a Denon 1706 can offer for best performance. Have fun! |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 797 Registered: Jun-05 | As much as I love Maggies I wouldnt touch them with budget recievers they are gonna need a lot more current than the cheapest recievers can give.The digital receivers might be a better alternitive for them,as we dont know yet until Eddie gives us the scoop on it although they have had some of the most superlative reviews on budget gear than we have seen in a along time.The MMG as good as it is its at least 10 speakers I would chose over it for that price,for all its strengths,its compramises far out weigh those strengths.Espeacially its very limited vertical dispersion and very poor off axis listening,which arent a issue if you are in the sweetspot,but for two or more listeners is not good at all.M12 is far superior in every way its not even close between the 2.Its hard for a recomedation for because I dont know what receiver you are gonna get. |
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Bronze Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 40 Registered: Aug-05 | I would put the Ascend 340s and a good sub like a Hsu Research in a comparision with Paradigm Studio 100s w/o hesitation. But on your budget you would need to stick with the Ascend 170s which outside of bass extension compare favorably with Studio 20s. |