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New member Username: FontboyPost Number: 8 Registered: Jul-05 | Onkyo TX-8511 versus Harman Kardon HK 3480 -- am considering both -- how are they different sonically? need for 400 sq ft room, tall celings, wood floors, athena as-f1 speakers. also considering NAD 320 or 352. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 248 Registered: May-05 | Pablo - There is no comparison between the first two and second two. The NAD integrateds will run circles around them. If you need a receiver (only advantage would be having a radio tuner), their is no comparison again - the H/K wins hands down. Better build quality, higher power (realistic watts, not over-inflated), and so on. Listen to them side by side with a good pair of speakers and you'll know. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1182 Registered: Feb-05 | I would have to 2nd all that Stu has said. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 264 Registered: May-05 | If you're shopping for H/K, check out http://www.harmanaudiooutlet.com/search_browse/default.asp?sp=S&brand=HK Should save you a couple bucks. |
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Bronze Member Username: OrnluPost Number: 28 Registered: Apr-04 | I own the Onkyo in question and I'm planning on purchasing a nad C370 or 372 soon... I must say that I am disappointed in the sound quality of the onkyo. It seemed fine at first but after hearing my setup through a mid range denon I can easily see its flaws. The bass on the onkyo is fairly tight and deep but the vocal range suffers.. It's very harsh sounding and unnatural. It has a very bright sound that gets emphasized even more when the volume is turned up. Although it handles classical wonderfully heavier music (heavier rock etc) gets really painful to listen to. It's shrill and seems to distort in the highs. This was not the case with the denon so I know it's exclusive to the amp.. and trust me I wanted to hear the same thing with the denon...So it's not biased. The only thing I 've heard about the HK is that it lacks in the bass department, but if you have a sub this shouldn't be a problem. I have athena as-f2 speakers. Similar to yours. Just FYI these speakers are EXTREMELY source dependant and amplifier dependant. They need a good clean amp. |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 269 Registered: Feb-05 | Robert: Whoever told you that HK is "lacking in the bass dept." is grossly misinformed. Bass quality and output is largely determined by the speakers connected anyway. See my post on "Onkyo 602 vs. HK" |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 270 Registered: Feb-05 | Sorry Robert I meant go to this thread: https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/143063.html |
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Bronze Member Username: OrnluPost Number: 30 Registered: Apr-04 | Eric, I am not saying this from personal experience, just what I have read in a lot of reviews about the 3480 in particular. My own experience has been with the Onkyo 8511 in question. |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 271 Registered: Feb-05 | What reviews in what publications? |
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Bronze Member Username: OrnluPost Number: 32 Registered: Apr-04 | http://www.epinions.com/pr-Harman_Kardon_HK_3480_2_Stereo_Channel_Home_Aud io_Receiver/linkin_id_~3035301/display_~reviews I understand that the people reviewing it don't really have any credentials besides owning it. But... There's where my opinion came from, correct or not =). |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 274 Registered: Feb-05 | Ok these are definately not professional reviews. Bass quality and output is again determined by the speaker connected. If I were you I would buy the Nad as first choice and the HK as second. |
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New member Username: FontboyPost Number: 10 Registered: Jul-05 | thanks for the advice everyone... i read an older "stereo review" article proclaiming that there is no difference between amps as long as they are level-loaded and the specs are similar and run below clipping. not sure what the level-loaded part means. so i decide to try it out on my own ears. i stopped by the best buy and bought a sony str de-697 and hooked it up to my speakers. it's better than i expected, but the sound seems to be worse then the my denon mini that i was temporarily using to run the speakers. i wanted to do a side by side, but that would kind of be a pain because i already attached banana clips to the cables, and the denon has spring clips. today i'll order up a nad 352 and then try that out side by side with the sony unit i already have in hand. i plan to test blind (i'll have my wife switch the cables) and see how it goes... |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 273 Registered: May-05 | That could be the oddest double blind test of components I've ever heard of!!! Make sure you do the test a bunch of times to eliminate the probability of getting it right by chance. The more times you switch, the less likely you are wrong, if there is a difference. Please let us know how it went. This has nothing to do with a double blind test, but something I've noticed myself recently. I've noticed is that some components don't sound much different side by side over short periods of time (switching every minute or two). It takes listening to one of them for a period of time, then switching to another one to really hear the differences. How I found this - I replaced a NAD 304 itnegrated amp with a C320BEE. When I bought it, the first thing I did was compare them side by side. I didn't notice much of a difference, it was only slight. My 304 went to my office and 320BEE stayed at home (my original intention. About a year later I brought the 304 back home because I got a turntable, and needed the phono pre-amp. I noticed a huge change in sound quality instantly - not phono to cd, but using the same cdp with same cd and speakers. The difference was night and day. I used the 304 for about a month, then got a phono pre-amp and connected to the 320BEE. The 320BEE sounds a lot different than the 304 with cd's again. |
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Bronze Member Username: FontboyPost Number: 11 Registered: Jul-05 | well, stu, that throws a whole new wrench in my testing scheme because i was planning on returning on either the nad or the sony (by the way, i picked up the sony for really cheap as a demo unit for $160)... i didn't think that nad components would sound different with age. can you describe a change in the sound of your 320bee over time? i'm guessing the 304 didn't change since you've had it for like fifteen years. when i do the testing, i am planning on listening to three songs i am very familiar with on one system, and then those three songs on the next system. i plan on switching back and forth, at least a couple of times to let it sink in. also, i plan on leaving the nad running to get a little burn in time -- although i must admit i am skeptical of any difference in the sound given that the amp is solid state. i see the necessity of burn in for speakers, and to some extent for decent speaker cables, but i must admit i have reservations about non-tube amps.... however, even if it sounds a little better i'll probably keep it for the cool factor anyway. also, my wife thinks the sony is crap. i'll have her run through the test also. however, if the 352 is all that it's cracked up to be, then i should notice a difference right away? we'll see... i just placed my order for the 352, so hopefully it will get here soon. i am looking forward to hearing it. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 280 Registered: May-05 | Pablo - I don't believe in burn-in of any components other than speakers (maybe tubes, but I don't know much about them). Reading my previous post, it seems a little misleading, but I think you got the main point. The sound of the 320BEE didn't change over time, either did the 304. I think a lot of it does have to do with getting used to a certain sound over a period of time. Then switching to something else, you can really hear the differences. Keep in mind that the 2 amps are from the same manufacturer, and most likely have similar parts, even though there is about 12 years between. Also factor in that they are about the same price level when each was bought new ($300 for the 304 12 years ago, $400 for the BEE), and they should be very similar, which they are. When I first got the BEE, I probably wouldn't have been able to pick it out consistantly in double blind test. Now I'd pick it every time, without question. People will probably argue that it's due to burn-in (and they may have a point), but I don't believe in burn-in at all for electronic components. Like I said before, I think it has to do with getting used to a certain sound over a period of time. Over a period of time I had a chance to listen to my music over and over. The subtle parts of my music became more apparent, and so on. After hearing that for about 9 months, I went back to the 304 temporarily (for the reasons in my previous post) and I think I really heard the differences between the two amps. During the time, both were properly cared for and used almost equally, but hearing them side by side really revealed the differences. I don't think this will have much of an effect on your A/B testing of the Sony and NAD though. They are completly different manufacturers, designs, and classes of equipment. The differences in the two side by side should be night and day immediately if everything else (speakers, cdp, etc.) stays the same. Sorry to confuse you Pablo. |