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Archive through June 22, 2005

 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 282
Registered: Jan-05
Hello Old Dogs!

Congratulations, John! How is that Primaluna working out? Should I go to the Tubes thread to hear about it?
 

Gold Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 1162
Registered: Dec-03
SM,

Good to hear from you. I'll glad you're back.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 3935
Registered: May-04
SM - Only if you want to hear him bitchnmoan about power cables.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3176
Registered: Dec-03
SM,

Wonderful. The return of Ghia, favourite daughter of the revolution!

Welcome!

Yes, I have decided to keep the Prologue Two. After a week of listening and agonizing on "Tube Talk".

Which seems to have errupted. It must have been some casual, throw-away remark I made about power cables. I shall mosey round and see what has caused all the e-mail notifications.

Went to a concert last night. Royal Philharmonic Orchestra performing music from movies. "From the golden days of Hollywood to modern blockbusters". It was great. Chosen to engage daughter, also to see R. Albert Hall. It engaged me alright. I liked "Independence Day" and "The Great Escape" the best, I think. For the music, watch out for movie release "Arsene Lupin" this fall. Composer/conductor Debbie Wiseman. I have no idea what the movie itself is like.

The sound quality was reference-standard.....

I chiefly notice the dynamic range. "Loud", with full brass and percussion, is loud, even by hi-fi standards. But "Soft" is a solo violin, pianissimo, 100ft away in which you can hear every nuance. Example, last night, Schindler's list.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 3950
Registered: May-04


Found this while poking around the web:

http://www.decware.com/forums/General/posts/3562.html
 

Gold Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 1166
Registered: Dec-03
Sounds familiar, doesn't it? LOL!
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1929
Registered: Aug-04
Ancient History 101
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3182
Registered: Dec-03
I paid careful attention in the Albert Hall yesterday, and the sound was definitely coming from all around, as reflections, even though the orchestra was a hundred feet or so away, and the angle over which they were spread was probably no more than 15º. (if the conductor was at 12 o'clock, we were at 7 o'clock, second tier loggia). The snare drum in the "fife and drum" part of the music from "Independence day" seemed to be behind and above us; much else besides that came from behind. Also the occasional mobile phone went off in the gallery, not to mention coughs etc. You can't do that with two-channel. Mind, not all concert halls are built like inverted pudding basins.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 3971
Registered: May-04


But if your room were ...
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3185
Registered: Dec-03
Spot on, Vigne! I can briefly empathise with those here who object to your always being right. Well, nearly always...

It is a rather special listening room. It seats 5,500, for a start. It had fibre-glass acoustic diffusers -"mushrooms" installed under the otherwise impossible dome, in 1969. I dimly remember the controversy. It sounds, and still looks, amazing, mushrooms included.

Royal Albert Hall. The "History" section is good. A monument to Victorian vision; a legacy of the 1851 "Great Exhibition of the Works of Industry of all Nations". Any audio London tourist should consider checking it out.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3188
Registered: Dec-03
On further thought, this gets us back to the original question, and in one move.

What do want require from an audio system?

Two possible, but quite different answers, are:-

1. To reproduce a performance so that it will sound the same if played back in the original room, or one like it.

2. To reproduce a performance so that it will sound the same, in our listening room, as it sounded to someone listening in the room in which it was recorded, or as it sounds to someone listening in the room from which it is being broadcast.

Few people have a listening room that will seat 5,500, or accommodate a Symphony Orchestra. So "1" is not usually an option. Thought it could be for chamber music...

For "2", multichannel recordings can do things that two-channel cannot, giving you the reflections and so on, as well as any parts of the performance that come from behind (this happens on occasion). I also now agree that good two-channel can give the impression of sounds coming from behind the listener.

But multichannel gives real sound sources behind the listener. Does that not increase the scope of the engineer to re-create the original sound?

Yes there other answers to the question. But those two answers are different, and require different technologies at the recording and playback ends. For "2", multichannel has something to offer.

Take that, Vigne!
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1945
Registered: Aug-04
How many times have you gone to a live performance (say jazz or rock), have heard pinpoint center vocal imaging together with, for example, alternate cowbell/highhat strikes from one side of the stage to the other when the drum kit is situated behind the singer? The answer would be never I would assume.

While hi-res multi-channel can, at times, offer outrageous sound origins (sometimes beneficially if there is a purpose), imho it usually recreates a more realistic imagery of the performance. Often it is like listening with a semi-circle of musicians situated in front and extending to the sides even though the surrounds may be situated more to the rear. As I have said, I can really enjoy stereo listening, but when surround is done right, even great stereo cannot quite put me in that same wonderful place of being able hear, so clearly, everything at once but separating each part into its own, more realistic, defined space.

It seems there are many talented MC engineers emerging as I notice the many improvements to surround mixes. A small jazz combo mc disc will usually have ambient sounds eminating from the rear, while the more 'fusion jazz' style will be mixed with more vigorous use of the rears. The same formula seems to apply across most genres. - and for me, this works.

BTW John, I think we would have enjoyed being at the Albert Hall for that performance. There is an SACD of orchestral covers of movie soundtracks. I shall see if I can find the info.
 

Silver Member
Username: Sem

New York USA

Post Number: 477
Registered: Mar-04

quote:

Also the occasional mobile phone went off in the gallery, not to mention coughs etc. You can't do that with two-channel.


Not to mention the sound of ice cubes tinkling in glasses behind you.





quote:

While hi-res multi-channel can, at times, offer outrageous sound origins (sometimes beneficially if there is a purpose), imho it usually recreates a more realistic imagery of the performance. Often it is like listening with a semi-circle of musicians situated in front and extending to the sides even though the surrounds may be situated more to the rear. As I have said, I can really enjoy stereo listening, but when surround is done right, even great stereo cannot quite put me in that same wonderful place of being able hear, so clearly, everything at once but separating each part into its own, more realistic, defined space.


Hear Hear!!

 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1947
Registered: Aug-04
Sem

Waiting to hear what you think of your HSU sub!

Cheers!


 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3189
Registered: Dec-03
"Not to mention the sound of ice cubes tinkling in glasses behind you."

Thanks, Sem! I am sure Sinatra and Basie perfomed there several times. You can have a G & T, too, if you are in a box.

Thanks, too, MR!
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 3991
Registered: May-04


Everyone should know by now how I feel about the sound of ice cubes tinkling in a glass behind me. Why aren't they sharing?

I have always preferred to have my cube "tinkling" in the glass of Chivas in front of me. Two channels are all that are required for that to be perfect.


 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 3992
Registered: May-04


John - What's this about "those here who object to your always being right". Why has no one brought this to my attention before now?




 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1956
Registered: Aug-04
I only need one channel for my beverage of choice!

Oh - and shouldn't that be, "those here who object to Jan always being left?"



 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3190
Registered: Dec-03
I think we are all being left. Left behind.

BBC is advertising its wares with a short period of unrestricted downloads of Beethoven symphonies as .mp3 files. 44 kHz, 128 kbs. Average file size about 30 MB per symphony.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/beethoven/downloads.shtml

I have 1-5. The rest are available later in the month. The short intros are quite good, too.

Played via iTunes and Airport Express, into input 4 of PrimaLuna Prologue Two tube amp, driving Quad ESL 63 speakers, they sound not at all bad. Will listen more carefully at weekend. Is there any prize for playing music on diverse components, ancient and modern?

The accompanying GUIDE TO DIGITAL MUSIC DOWNLOADS is written in clear English, and about sums it all up, as far as I can see.

The Beeb moves on downloading audio. That's remarkable. What interesting times.

"I have seen the future, and it works". (Who said that?)

Jan,

What's this about "those here who object to your always being right". Why has no one brought this to my attention before now?

Several have tried, but I fear that you were not paying attention....
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 3994
Registered: May-04


At one time I thought I was wrong but I was mistaken.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 3995
Registered: May-04


The past history of the future seems a bit murky:

http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=i%20have%20seen%20the%20future




"I only need one channel for my beverage of choice!"

Rantz - I hope we're not back on flowports again. I will, however, raise my glass to MONO!



 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3191
Registered: Dec-03
Jan,

I have found the source, from The Little Oxford Dictionary of Quotations.

I have seen the future; and it works.
Lincoln Steffens 1866-1936: following a visit to the Soviet Union in 1919, in Letters (1938)
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1961
Registered: Aug-04
"Rantz - I hope we're not back on flowports again. . . ."

How can I enjoy a drink with a sealed enclosure - it'd spill all over the place!

I pick up the replacement 602's tomorrow - er today - now I have to run them in all over again which leads me to ask you this question Jan:

Does hooking up the speakers with one out of phase and placing them face to face with them playing for about 8 hours suffice for running in? If not, have you heard of this solution?

Back to the Future:

Personally, I think the best of the future lies in the past.

 

Gold Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 1172
Registered: Dec-03
"Personally, I think the best of the future lies in the past".

Finally you see the light! It's what we have been saying all along. Tubes and 2 channel stereo. LOL!

We are so glad you finally agree.............
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 3998
Registered: May-04


Yes, what was the future is now behind us.

Obviously the best solution to running in speakers is to connect them to a vacuum tube (thermionic valve for John) amplifier and let them rip. It's that odd order distortion from solid state amplifiers that throws the entire break in period off kilter.

Since some of us are so adamnantly in the grip of the present technology and cannot grasp what the past has in store for the future, the solution you offer will suffice. Hooking the speakers out of phase merely reduces the amount of bass perceived in the room. Whether you hook speakers in phase or out makes no difference to the actual processs of breaking in the drivers. I normally suggest just putting the speakers on a constant source such as FM and reducing the volume so they can play 24/7. I've not found any difference in the amount of time it takes to break in a speaker when played loudly or softly.




 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3192
Registered: Dec-03
The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley 1895-1972: The Go-Between (1953)

Good luck, MR. Personally, I would choose to hear the break-in, so that I had experienced it first-hand. I am quite looking forward to getting an out-of-the box amp, to compare. The one I have seems to be getting better by the day. I asked if it was "run-in", and they guy said it had been played in the showroom, not quite answering the question.

"I have to admit it's getting better; Getting better all the time"
The Beatles, 196x
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1964
Registered: Aug-04
Jan,

Okay, thanks for tips even though they were dripping with usual 'tubes rule' sarcasm. My dealer gave me that advice saying it would run them in more quickly. We'll see.

Rick - Ha, ha - but audio had nothing to do with my future comment. For a little bit of seriousness - I feel a deep sense of trepidation for todays kids and what's in store for them.

Now you guys, to the real serious stuff - I understand your hanging on to all that yesteryear audio gear - now tell me please, do you wear hats when driving and hog the fast lane?

:-)


 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1965
Registered: Aug-04
John

With the first 602's I didn't find them that bad before they were run in, but the Beatles are quite right - a week or two later and they just bloomed. When do you get your amp?

 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

Warren, MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2478
Registered: Dec-03
Don't know why for sure but I've heard the same thing!

"hooking up the speakers with one out of phase and placing them face to face with them playing"

But with a twist! You cover them with a damp cloth! That's what I've heard.
 

Gold Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 1173
Registered: Dec-03
Rantz,

I think it was Jan that wanted a hat! Hey Jan, if you find one that says "Wanna see my Tube?", let me know. And yes, I always hog the fast lane.

Personally I prefer to rub my cones with soft terry cloth..............................
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 4000
Registered: May-04



For the most part Dallas traffic does not allow a "fast lane". Only "slower until you realize you are at a standstill lanes".


I still like the idea of a hat.

I think I'll give up on the secret decoder ring. Not enough box tops.






 

Gold Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 1174
Registered: Dec-03
Does anyone know if Battle Creek, Michigan really exists? I often wondered.................
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 4001
Registered: May-04


http://www.battlecreek.org/




 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3193
Registered: Dec-03
MR, The guy said it would take a couple of weeks. I like the one I've got but I suppose it has x hours less left of tube life, plus the glitches mentioned above. Yes, watch out for hatted drivers. Deerstalkers and Volvos are a bad combination. Round here it's the guys at the wheel in baseball caps you worry about. These days, you don't see so many wide-brimmed hats with dangling corks to hold the fishing hooks....
 

Gold Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 1175
Registered: Dec-03
LOL!!!!!!!!!! They have Tony The Tiger on their homepage. That's classic!

Jan- How many box tops will I need for a McIntosh tube amp? I'm on my way to the store and thought I might stock up on Fruit Loops.........

BTW-I'll send you a hat from Orlando, I promise. Which one do you want?
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 4006
Registered: May-04


Fruit Loops ... McIntosh tubes ... D'Oh!!!!!
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3206
Registered: Dec-03
"Pink Floyd - one of the biggest UK bands of all time - are reuniting for next month's Live 8 concert in London's Hyde Park" BBC News. Pink Floyd's ups and downs
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 4086
Registered: May-04


John - Someone needs you assistance here:

https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-theater/3746.html
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 4087
Registered: May-04


John - Someone needs your assistance here:

https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-theater/3746.html
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 4088
Registered: May-04


Drat! A double. That's going to artificially boost my total number of postings.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3215
Registered: Dec-03
I'd already found it, Jan. But thanks.

I seem to have a doppleganger here, some guy still banging on about surround sound formats.

How very 20th century.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 4094
Registered: May-04


Quite!
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3217
Registered: Dec-03
One of my CD references for sound is Mahler 1, CBSO, Rattle, EMI, 1992, 20-bit recording. On PrimaLuna PL Two and Quad ESL 63s: wonderful - never heard so much, before, in this music.

New discovery: CD of "We will rock you", a current musical at the Dominion Theatre, birthday present for daughter and "Queen" fan. Excellent. Duetting electric guitars with even-harmonic distortion - on the recording, of course. Will listen to some classic mono recordings at the weekend. Daughter also has digital camera. Pic soon, as promised.

On this day (June 18): 1815. 9.00pm - Blücher met Wellington at La Belle Alliance... "A fresh Prussian cavalry pursued the retreating French. Blücher wanted to name the battle "La Belle Alliance" but Wellington insisted ... that it be called after the place where he had spent the night before the battle, Waterloo."

 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 4099
Registered: May-04


Awww, jeez! Now we're giving the time of day for these events. That's a lot of pressure, John.

OK, OK. Everything I've posted so far has happened at 11:45 AM. What a coincidence.




 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3218
Registered: Dec-03
I jumped the gun a bit. It is still 17 June, even in Waterloo.

It is difficult to keep up with your bulletins, Jan. Impossible to get in first without bending the rules.
 

Marc C
Unregistered guest
Hello Dogs,

Questions for Jan...

McIntosh Speakers: Yay or ney? Seen a few pairs on the net - some for quite a good price. Any good?

Best,

Marc
 

Gold Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 1183
Registered: Dec-03
11:45 makes sense to me. They wanted to finish before lunch..................

Hi Marc C,

Nice to have you stop by the "Dog Pound". Hope all is well.
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1070
Registered: Oct-04
To all long-lost "dogs." Not dead, just exhausted, that's us'ns! Mer and I have been too deeply involved in the illness and problems of her parents in mid-florida, and my ole-maid aunt up in Michigan. Sigh. In and out of too many cars and planes for my taste!
But now there's a bit of a lull - everybody's out of hospital and sorta healing well, so we're back home and trying playing "catch-up" with bills and correspondence.
Sorry for my absence, but I do not take my computer "on the road" with me, so until last night I had little contact with the electronic world.
Not too much "news" to report - we've obviously not been doing much music-listening!
Thanks to those who e-mailed, and whose e-mails I did manage to pick up.

Rick B - how're your plans coming for the Big Move? And oh, yes, BTW, I read an earlier post of yours: Battle Creek, Michigan, does, indeed, exist. I lived there during my high school years, and watched it going downhill fast as more and more of the "undesirable" elements from Detroit moved in. The last time I visited there (2000) the town was mostly "minority" and quite dirty. Gang slogans everywhere - sigh.

We're braced for a bad hurricane season - again. And have already felt the effects of our first tropical storm - 18 inches of rain in a five-day period is just too much! (sigh)

Congrats to new tube-amp folk. And all I can say is that "retro" is not all that bad! Needless to say, however, my budget is travel-busted for now, and any thought of upgrading anything is out of the question.

Good to read the ole forum again - and wish I could contribute something more interesting. I'll try to mend my ways! (grin) Woof woof. . .
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1991
Registered: Aug-04
Larry

Glad to hear Mer's parents and your aunt are on the mend. Good to have you back.

 

Gold Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 1186
Registered: Dec-03
Larry and Mer,

Great to have you back! No time now, will get back to you soon.
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 818
Registered: Feb-05
"Battle Creek, Michigan, does, indeed, exist. I lived there during my high school years, and watched it going downhill fast as more and more of the "undesirable" elements from Detroit moved in. The last time I visited there (2000) the town was mostly "minority" and quite dirty."

Boy, I'm sorry I read that. I know..if I don't like it I can look elsewhere. If you lived in the Northwest where the population is mostly white you'd understand how ridiculous that statement is. I have lived in the midwest and understand to a certain extent what you are saying. But believe me when I say that your statement was very offensive and racist. Perhaps YOU are not a racist, probably not, but please be careful. I apologize for interrupting your conversation.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1993
Registered: Aug-04
Perhaps you should "know" people before you jump the gun Art. None of the old dogs are racist as far as I know. Larry made two conclusions regarding his last visit to Battle Creek: the town was mostly minority and quite dirty. Nothing racist about that - that is how he saw it. Our town is mostly white and often I consider it 'quite dirty' also.

Do you search the forums to find something you think is worth jumping on your bandwagon? I understand racial abuse, my wife has an adopted coloured sister and I know what she has suffered from the mouths of racist creeps, but she would be the last person to dig up the yard to find a bone to pick.
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 819
Registered: Feb-05
No, My Rantz I don't try to dig up something but I figured someone might think that. The post was one of the most recent and the statement whether you all understand it or not was racist.

"Perhaps YOU are not a racist, probably not"

I did not assume that Larry was a racist, but I wanted to point out that his statement was.

Perhaps being from down under you don't understand the subtleties of our culture, but being a black American since I was born I do. I meant no harm by my post, it was just a caution to be careful. I suspect Larry who is probably not a racist, as I said earlier, will agree that those words were perhaps not appropriate to post here. Even if both you and Larry are racists (which I do not believe that you are) you obviously have a right to your beliefs. I do however feel that it is my responsibility to point out statements like the one I referred to in my post if I stumble on to it. I have only commented on one other since I began posting here and it was when an individual stated that he wished the "nigggers" would leave here. So no I ain't lookin' for it but when I find it I HAVE to comment on it or I will let myself and my children down.

Again, I meant no harm nor did I mean that Larry is a racist. We all say things that hurt other people unintentionally it was just a caution to be mindful of how we word things.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 4115
Registered: May-04




- And now for something completely different -

Marc - are there any particular models you are looking at?

Larry - Good to have you back, you ol' ......




 

Gold Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 1189
Registered: Dec-03
Art,

I know Larry meant no harm in his statement, and your point is well taken.
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 821
Registered: Feb-05
Thank you Rick! I really didn't mean any harm. This is one of threads that I respect most. And you folks are the finest posters at this forum. In fact before now I haven't posted on this thread because you all seem like friends and one must be invited rather than just stick one's nose in where one doesn't belong. Again I meant no disrespect and hope you all understand that I felt compelled to comment. Gidday!
 

Gold Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 1190
Registered: Dec-03
Art,

Let me officially welcome you to "Old Dogs". This is the Seinfeld of threads. We old timers bark about everything and nothing at the same time. LOL! You don't need an invitation to join in. If you can stand the sometime insanity, you are most welcome. We all came together out of mutual respect for each other, and the thread grew from there. I quess we just enjoy each others company, and are not afraid to laugh at ourselves from time to time.
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 822
Registered: Feb-05
Thank you Rick, I truly appreciate that.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 4121
Registered: May-04


The Seinfeld, huh? OK, whose Kramer?

I was kinda shooting for something loftier; maybe "Casablanca" or "Abbott and Costello meet, Dracula, Frankenstein, the Wolfman, the Mummy and anyone else we can get in this movie".

Shows how much I know.




 

Gold Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 1191
Registered: Dec-03
How much loftier do you want? To add to the above, we have already had Holmes, Watson, Poe, Tonto, and the Ranger. Not to mention the NUN! Let's not forget what happened last time we got all these characters stirred up.

I only thought Seinfeld was appropriate because it was billed as the show about nothing.........

Hi Ho Silver...........LOL!

Before I forget Jan, did you catch that Larry lived in Battle Creek? I think he has our decoder rings, and it's high time he gives them to us.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3224
Registered: Dec-03
Welcome back, Larry. And welcome, Art! I can see your point; no need to apologise. We have a bit of discussion around this issue on the archived thread, on March 11. Ben James had a similar reaction to another remark of Larry's at that time. It easy to make a casual remark that is taken to imply something unintended. It happens all the time on this thread. I think I have managed to offend everyone here at one time or another. I am still anxious that SM is sulking, but her last post was nice, so maybe she's just busy.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1994
Registered: Aug-04
Okay Art, fair enough. It was late here, I was tired and cranky, and I felt the need to defend our friend from Swampville FA. As with the other dogs I too say drop in anytime if you can stand the lunacy. The old dogs are from far and wide and all bring a little craziness to the pound from time to time - the proof being that most of them are getting into these relic amplifiers with glowing bottles on top and bare faceplates, they just can't seem to be at one with the 21st century, so forgiveness is a necessary commodity for an old dog. [grin]


 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 4122
Registered: May-04


I assumed it was Larry in the Tony The outfit on their web page.

http://www.battlecreek.org/

I see they have Friendship Park. How could discrimination and Friendship Park go together? eh, Officer Kruppky?

Now, about those decoder rings?




 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1995
Registered: Aug-04
I need a decoder ring. Among my recent order from Acoustic Sounds was a fine dsd recording from Mighty Sam McClain - it was touted on their website as a MULTICHANNEL SACD and was labelled so on the disc, but when I gave it to my Denon it would only emit STEREO. After trying to change layers and getting to thinking something was wrong (heaven forbid) with the player, I eventually looked harder at the disc cover and noted that the Telarc label said "Stereo" - I was not impressed. Luckilly, it was a good recording both musically and sonically and will be a keeper. I let Acoustic Sounds know of their error and my disappointment. Maybe Moriarty has been lurking in their warehouse!

Damn you Moriarty you truly are evil!

 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 4127
Registered: May-04


I can honestly say I've never had a similar problem with an LP. 21st century my butt!
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1996
Registered: Aug-04
Yeah, but aren't LP's older than Moriarty?
 

Gold Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 1071
Registered: Oct-04
Art et al - now that you all have had a chance to blow off some steam - I stand by exactly what I wrote - if you will just read it ALL again, please.

While I lived there, gangs from Detroit decided that BC was a fine place to hide out, and do drugs. It got much worse. Yes, the gangs were black and latino. I called it as I saw it. Nothing more.
And yes, when I re-visited my old neighborhood in 2000, it was ALL black, and the homes were in bad shape. Made me tear up, looking at our old house.

Take my statements for what you will - anything I say will probably just add fuel to the fire. A racist I am not - but a strong supporter of cleanliness and lawfulness I am, gentlemen.

Sigh - sorry, but must go. I just got off the phone with a dear friend in Denver - saying her husband, one of my best friends, has died. Sigh. Another plane trip - another funeral. I can say no more.

More anon. . . with respect to all.

 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1997
Registered: Aug-04
Larry

So sorry about your friend in Denver - take care both of you.

 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 4131
Registered: May-04


Paul McCartney turns 63 today.

One of my favorite ball players, Lou Brock hits 66 today.

I saw in the paper today Norah Jones and Bob Dylan will team up for a concert.

God, I feel old.


 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1998
Registered: Aug-04
Me too - probably 'cause I am LOL!
 

Gold Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 1193
Registered: Dec-03
I have socks older than Ms. Jones.........
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3226
Registered: Dec-03
...of whom I first heard when My Rantz mentioned she was Ravi Shankar's daughter. That's old AND out of touch.

Trying to check that this unlikely family relationship is not invented by failing memory*, I find Anoushka Shankar, too. I pass this link on for the superb picture. Probably eveyone's heard of her, too. My excuse is that I have been living in Siberia** for many years....

*I ran "Search" here with "Ravi Shankar" and found nothing. Very disturbing. Anyone else remember MR's post? MR?

**No offence to the good people of Siberia: this figure of speech is a slur on a fine place, I am sure, where everyone knows the Shankar family tree, for example, and much else besides.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 4134
Registered: May-04


Couldn't agree more with the remarks concerning Siberia. Without Siberia we would never have had Alexander Solzhenitsyn and One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich. Though I am sceptical whether the Denisovich family knew the Shankar's. Of course, Denisovich was just visiting.




 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3227
Registered: Dec-03
We should not forget those who had a one-way ticket, as it were. There were many.

Not a great photo, difficult lighting conditions, but I have been promising for while.

Upload
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1999
Registered: Aug-04
John,

Yes, I read an article stating Ms Jones was 'a' daughter of Ravi Shankar - found a link (you must enter both names John) [grin] -

http://www.farewellthewinterline.com/newsletter/mar03/Cultural-Connection.htm

Re: your photo - the vases are nice, but what a lovely 'pot' plant. No wonder those speakers give good sound - the surface area must be close to an acre! LOL!

Without Siberia we would never have an idea of a good place to stay away from.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 4142
Registered: May-04


Has Mrs. A. suggested the PrimaLuna might look more acceptable with a vase of flowers in water on top of it?
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 2002
Registered: Aug-04
Hark! What light through yonder window breaks. It is the east and John, you left the bl00dy curtain open again!
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3229
Registered: Dec-03
Well, actually, MR, is it the South. I usually close the curtains to listen, another thing Mrs A does not quite understand, fearing for my sanity. Note the speaker stands are now flower-and-PrimaLuna stands. It is not ideal in terms of decor, but it sounds bl00dy marvellous. I rarely play DVD-A now because I have to switch on the awful TV in order to set it up. BTW there is an Airport Express Base Station plugged into the wall behind the right speaker, supplying input Aux 2 most agreeably, but it is like the TV; a pain to have to switch it on, and also generates RF interference on the FM tuner. The NAD T533 serves nicely and does not take up too much space, under the tuner. The flowers were for our 23rd wedding anniversary, yesterday. How time flies. Still crazy after all these years.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3230
Registered: Dec-03
PS, MR, Thanks for the link, but I meant "Search" on this forum. Has the Ministry of Truth erased all record of your post, or is it my brain cells going ping again?
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 2003
Registered: Aug-04
John and Mrs A

Congratulations to you both - especially Mrs A LOL!

Seriously - 23 yrs is nothing to be scoffed at these days - good on both of you.

Also John, why do you need the tv to play DVD-A. Try hitting stop when "Play" or "Playing" shows in the display, then press the play or start button again. If it resumes play in mlp 5.1 use the audio button on your remote and change to 2 channel. I suppose you set the player for 2 channel - I'm sure you know most of this - if not,I guess the T533 lacks those features.
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 832
Registered: Feb-05
I must really be out of it, I had no idea Norah Jones is related to Ravi Shankar.

Nice pic of the Quads. All the gear I've listened to and I have not yet heard the Quad stats. Shameful!
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 4153
Registered: May-04


Art - There is an entire generation who discovered what HiFi is all about the first time they heard a pair of Quads. I count myself among that fortunate crowd.

When you hear them for the first time, they should be playing on a tube amplifier. You will go home and curse whatever speakers you presently own.




 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 2004
Registered: Aug-04
No, no! Don't curse your speakers under any circumstance. Be very nice to your speakers and all your audio gear. You just never know . . .

 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3231
Registered: Dec-03
Art,

I posted on the Quads here: Quad Electrostatic Loudspeaker 63. I bought the ESL 63s refurbished by the manufacturer. The current Quad 988 and 989 are based on the ESL 63. I have stated my opinion several times on these speakers. I think Martin Logan makes comparable models, but have not heard them.

My Rantz,

The NAD has a very small front-panel display, and no, there seems to be no obvious way to choose formats without going to the menu on the disc. Perhaps one can choose "Chapter", but there is usually no key to which chapter is which on discs, even with the OSD. The NAD has a front-panel indicator for "DVD-A"; that's about it. Also, you actually have to play a bit of the track to discover which format it is in. I do not like starting and stopping. This is problem with this player, in my view. I will persist with DVD-A. SACD is penetrating the "classical" disc market, no question. I assume you can select between CD, SACD 2-channel and SACD surround on most players. I have not forgotten your recommendation, and many thanks. I promised Mrs A "no more for the time being" and she has a strong case!

Jan,

Thanks again for the correspondence and the suggestion to get used. Yes, they seem even more natural with the new amp. All the detail and imaging was there with the Sony, but it was a harsher and more brittle sound, also lacking in bass. It surprised me how much difference an amp makes. Maybe Quad ESLs reveal more amp differences than many other speakers.
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 837
Registered: Feb-05
Magnepan did the same for me but trust me I'll never go there again. As much as I enjoy planars and Electrostats (I've heard the Martin Logan's, Acoustat's, Apogee's, and owned Magnepan's) I'll stick to dynamic designs for the rest of my life. I just feel they work better for my varied musical tastes. There is a real magic to the other designs though.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 2005
Registered: Aug-04
John

Some DVD-A's start automatically in 5.1 mlp - others, of course don't. What I was explaining is basically using the disc menu without seeing it. As for Mrs A I understand.

"I assume you can select between CD, SACD 2-channel and SACD surround on most players." Well, the Denons have a facia button for this purpose - there is no need for a tv with CD/SACD - apart from all the one time initial default settings.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3232
Registered: Dec-03
Art,

That is right - they are not to everyone's taste. The Quad 989 is an attempt to extend the bass response, I think, and Martin Logan do it with some sort of built-in sub. There are people on this forum who swear by Magnepans.

My Rantz,

Thanks. That is one up to Denon and one up to SACD. The NAD DVD-A functions are primitive and you are stuck mostly with what the player considers to be the best format available on the disc - and that is even using the OSD. You can always just put in the disc and press "Play", but you can never predict what you will get.
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 840
Registered: Feb-05
Yeah, the Martin Logans are a hybrid and sound pretty good. I still find the Maggies very seductive. I have one friend with 3.6's and another with 20.1's both have the electronics to match. I used to have the MG12's. If I could afford a pair of 3.6's + a pair of Era Sub 10's and the appropriate electronics I would own them again in a heartbeat. I just don't think that's gonna happen in the near (or far) future. By the way John I have the Denon DVD2910 and it is fabulous. The redbook play is still behind my dedicated cd player but the SACD playback is very good indeed.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3233
Registered: Dec-03
That's good to know, Art. Many thanks. Several people here have the Denon 2910, including My Rantz, and all say very positive things about it. I guess I have to look at my digital source eventually. (It will have to be a while)

If you don't mind my asking -

1. Your dedicated CD player? Is that the NAD C542?

2. How does CD on that compare with two-channel SACD on the Denon?

Thanks for listing all your gear; impressive. I did, once, but the entry was wiped by a system failure and I have not had the heart to type it all in again. I like NAD. I bought the T533 just because it has DVD-A. It is interesting that NAD still does not do SACD, like some other independents.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 2006
Registered: Aug-04
My Rantz does not have a Denon DVD-2910, he has a Denon DVD-2900 which has been superceded by the DVD-3910.

 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 847
Registered: Feb-05
Yup, my dedicated CD player is the NAD C542. SACD on the Denon has a lot les grain than the CD on the NAD. The best way that I can think of to put it, is that SACD is more fluid and lifelike than cd. Again though it is still not the affordable 1 box solution that we have been looking forward to as the NAD beats it hands down on redbook. I think you're stll looking at Linn or Ayre for a 1 box solution and they ain't affordable.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3234
Registered: Dec-03
Sorry, My Rantz! Yes, I recall, now. Two Cents, Ghia/SM and you had the same model.

Thanks, Art. This is also good to know. I was convinced for a while that DVD-A beats CD. My Rantz and others are clear that SACD does, too. While I do not doubt these guy's reports, I am always curious about how much could be down to different players, discs, mixes, etc. I know I got thrown by the "Ext 5.1" receiver input of DVD-A giving a better sound than the CD input; I thought the difference was completely in the format itself. And then there is the surround issue, which started this thread, but makes it difficult to compare formats on a level playing field.

MR has been suggesting a "universal" player is the way to go for some time, and I am coming round to this view. But I'd also like to get the best from my collection of CDs, which I do not intend to replace just for a new format. I think part of the angst on this thread is from guys who threw away priceless LP collections, believing the "perfect sound" hype for CD. It still stings to be told by the same manufacturers that they now have something better than perfect. I trust individuals more than anything I read from companies, especially big ones. That is why I asked your opinion.

So, no worries! MR and I in particular have been round this circuit several times.

All the best, guys.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 2007
Registered: Aug-04
"Sorry, My Rantz! Yes, I recall, now. Two Cents, Ghia/SM and you had the same model."

Sorry John, close but no cigar! All of the above, except I, but including Kegger, have the DVD-2200 - now replaced by the DVD-2100. Confusing ain't it?

As for the DVD-2900, Imho it does very well with redbook cd's and a sterling job with sacd, and dvd-a. The 3910 I believe may even be slightly better with cd, but the 5910 (different number outside US) has gotten rave reviews for its top notch cd playback. But it's the same old story - the more money the better it all gets. Also, the new Marantz DV-9600 is receiving accolades for all formats including superlative cd handling.

I find myself rarely going into our cd collection these days, that's not only due to the fact that our sacd/dvd-a collection keeps growing and they get the playing time, but also because of the superb sound.

While we are on about superb sound, I had a taste of valve amps today (er yesterday) when Mrs Rantz and I (having a week off we are) took a drive over the border and, on the way, visited my Marantz dealer (one of the many brands he deals in). Next to a rack of Moon and Rega components was a rack of Sun valve/tube amps - all glowing nicely. He and his salesman carried out a huge Classe solid state power amp and fired up a cd on the Rega. It sounded pretty darn good with a pair of small, but remarkable Aussie made bookshelves. Then they unwired the Classe and connected to one of the Sun valve amps. It was like someone took a blanket off the speakers. The sound was wonderful, but in all honesty, not that much different/better from our own kit. For the cost of their gear VS ours, we left their shop feeling quite content with our lot.

John, now that you've got exceptional gear with the Quads and PL2, my suggestion is to save up and get the best (with most future proof connectivity) universal you can possibly afford and you should be set for life - making certain to complete the surround speaker arena of course LOL!

 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3235
Registered: Dec-03
My Rantz,

OK I give in. Yes, I am confused! I remember Kegger had the 2200.

I go round in circles. I asked the PrimaLuna dealer about SACD. He said "May I ask how many CDs you own...?" Nice one!

Great story with the visit to the dealer. Please post something on "Tube Talk"! But I warn you, it starts with maybe just a casual question, then taking a little more interest, then, before you know it, you are reading specs, are astounded at the sound, and....

"we left their shop feeling quite content with our lot" Congratulations! By the way, I do not think the 2900 is exactly "superceded" by the 3910, not in the sense of outclassed; improved upon - I mentioned that HFN thought the 2900 sounded better. Apart from the sound, I am enjoying ownership of speakers that are not made any more. Freedom from "progress".
 

Marc C
Unregistered guest
Rick B,

Hey there! Nice to see you also. Things are well. Very busy with work and glad of it. Just popped in to check in, see if there's anything new and exciting, and ask a quick question.

(At some point, I'm going to absorb the Tube Talk thread when I'm up for a good and sizeable read.)


Jan,

You know, I don't recall the model. Tower, looked fairly recent - mid 90's maybe, I believe 2 six-inch woofers, mid, tweet - a nice looking speaker. And he wanted $400 for them or something minimal like that. Makes me curious as to the design/quality of Mac speakers - not something you hear much about.


Glad all are well. And now I think I'll go over to the Tube Talk section and ask what everyone thinks of Power Cables...just kidding.

 

Marc C
Unregistered guest
P.S. Just missed a pair of VMPS Tower 2's for $200. As I live on the second floor, my back (and neighbors) are relieved.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3237
Registered: Dec-03
Good to hear from you again, Marc. You'll never read the whole of Tube Talk. Some regulars here have changed their minds on several things, since you were last around. That includes me. Kegger is into tubes AND vinyl. Who'd have thought it? Rick has gone tuboid and kindly and wisely started "Tube Talk" in order to remove that topic from this thread, so we could concentrate on the issue in hand. Hmm.... Great that things are going well with you.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 4184
Registered: May-04


We haven't been here for a while:


217 BC - Battle of Raphia: Ptolemy IV of Egypt defeats Antiochus III the Great of the Seleucid kingdom. Immediately after this "Antiochus III the Great of the Seleucid kingdom" T-shirts go on sale on eBay.

168 BC - Battle of Pydna: Romans under Lucius Aemilius Paullus defeat and capture Macedonian King Perseus, ending the Third Macedonian War. No T-shirts, too many vowels.

1593 - Battle of Sisak: Slovene - Croat troops defeat the Turks. Well, we all know what happens next; don't we?

1497: Anti-tax insurrection in Cornwall suppressed at Blackheath. Hence the phrase - taxes and death.

1633 - The Holy Office in Rome forces Galileo Galilei to recant his scientific view that the Sun, not the Earth, is the center of the Universe. But, Galileo was not tortured; it was merely a few prelates blowing off some steam.

1843: First General Peace Convention opens, London, England. And we know how far that bunch got.

1893 - The Royal Navy battleship HMS Camperdown accidently rams the British Mediterranean Fleet flagship HMS Victoria which sinks taking 358 crew with her, including the fleet's commander, Vice-Admiral Sir George Tryon. Accidently? 24 hour news would have been all over this story.

1898 - Spanish-American War: United States Marines land in Cuba. Cigars ... GOOOOD!

1914: During WWI, 150,000 Austrian munitions workers strike for immediate peace. What!? You trying to put yourself out of business?

1940 - France forced to sign armistice with Germany. That's too easy.

1941: Adolf bids Joe a good morning with 1,500,000 troops as the German Army takes the Soviet leader Joseph Stalin by surprise as it begins a massive advance on Moscow. Joe, you didn't notice those 1,500,000 guys to your right?

1963 - Pope Paul VI elected by College of Cardinals. Paul VI dies in 1963 and John Paul dies in 2005. Coincidence? You decide.

1976 - Canadian House of Commons abolishes capital punishment. Texas feels duty bound to step up the pace of killing people.

1977: Former Nixon Attorney General John Mitchell, a law and order hardliner, starts 19 months in Alabama prison. And not a soul that deserved it more ... Oh, wait, there was Halderman, Liddy and, of course, Dicky hisownself. I'm convinced Pat was too snockered to have been involved.

1981: Chapman pleads guilty to Lennon murder
Mark Chapman changes his plea to guilty and admits he murdered John Lennon in December 1980. UH, YEAH!

1986 - Argentine footballer Diego Maradona scored both the Hand of God goal and the Goal of the Century against England during the FIFA World Cup in Mexico City. Take that, you Brits, you! "The Hand of God Goal"!!!

2003 - The largest hailstone ever recorded falls from a thunderstorm in Aurora, Nebraska, USA. Insurance refuses to cover damage to a 1997 Nissan deeming the event the "Hailstone of God". Later ups the premium for the recipient of the "Hailstone of the Century".

*****

1684 - Francesco Manfredini, Italian baroque composer (d. 1762) John, you have his collected works, don't you?

1936 - Kris Kristofferson, country music singer, songwriter, actor, Rhodes scholar. Elvis was dead 28 years when he was his age.

*****

1969 - Judy Garland, singer, actress.

1987 - Fred Astaire, dancer, actor.

1988 - Dennis Day, singer, actor. Singing, dancing and acting are obviously bad for your health.

1993 - Pat Nixon, wife of president Richard M. Nixon. The anniversary of Mitchell going to prison. Coincidence? You decide!






Thank you for reading.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

LondonU.K.

Post Number: 3238
Registered: Dec-03
You are welcome, Jan. Interesting....

Those last two categories look like "births" and "deaths" except the bit about Elvis, unless he got those two in the wrong order. Oh, I see...

Yes, good old Francesco, one of the best. I particularly like his cantata "Hit me with your rhythm stick". Shame his mother couldn't hold on till 1685, though, like the others.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 4186
Registered: May-04


The last two categories were a test, John. You pass with flying colors (but no T-shirt). I'll give you a gold star for today.



Hmmmmmmmm ...






Anyone know where I can find a gold star for John?




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