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Axioms, Ascends, Athenas, Insanity

 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 120
Registered: Jul-04
This thread could go a few different directions - feel free.

I bought Axiom M22s last fall, and have an Axiom M2 center. I like them very much.

I then moved my Paradigm Titans (some bass bloat that I liked at first but got tired of) to the bedroom and then sold them.

Then I thought I could just have some bose 301s found cheap at a yard sale in the bedroom. That lasted about 1 week.

I ordered the Athena b-1s cause I didn't want to spend too much but wanted good speakers. The came and sound as reviewed - pretty darn good.

But not M22 good.

Today I had the chance to buy ascend cbm-170s practically new for $250 - and I went for it.

My wife thinks I am crazy. I might be addicted (to a good thing, but still). All this buying doesn't match with my ideal of a simple lifestyle that enables me to give to people who really need it.

So, anyway, comments on the speakers? Comments on simple living? Comments on my mental condition?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Dakulis

Spokane, Washington United States

Post Number: 83
Registered: May-05
Even though I was a psychology major long ago, I don't feel qualified to comment on your mental condition BUT you have a bunch of pretty good speakers there, from what I've read. I get my 170s tomorrow so I can diagnose you better then.

As to the simple living, sell the house, speakers, cars, furniture, etc. and then we can talk BUT I'm not going there. Camping a couple of weeks a year is sufficient to live the simple life. So, eat, drink and listen merrily, I say.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 121
Registered: Jul-04
For the record my wife said "whatever" meaning it was up to me and then continued to watch MASH.

So, if Paul is lurking, my wife isn't trying to control my spending of my (separate) money (money from selling other posessions I had).

She just doesn't get it. And, objectively speaking, neither do I. Can't wait to get those CBMs.

How long till my cat tips them over? He has plenty of small targets!
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 122
Registered: Jul-04
yes, David, report as soon as possible tomorrow!

For the record - there is a pair of 170s now on ebay. Bidding ends on the 26th I think.
 

Silver Member
Username: Chitown

Post Number: 136
Registered: Apr-05
As the artist formerly known as Prince once said "When you see that shrink in Beverly Hills don't ask them how much of your mind is left, ask him how much of your time, baby"

IMO materialism is about how much of your life you spend on these things not how much money.

 

Silver Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 924
Registered: Mar-05
> For the record my wife said "whatever" meaning it was up to me and then continued to watch MASH.

Jesus H. Christ, I *knew* I married the wrong woman!

LOL
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 123
Registered: Jul-04
I figure Edster couldn't resist posting in a thread with ascends in the title. Welcome edster.

I once read a very highly regarded book on simple living - "Your Money Or Your Life" which suggests you look at every purchase as a "time / part of your life" investment. "How much of your life do you want to invest in being able to go to Starbucks every day."

It suggests you DO get things that are really important to you - things that really add beauty and meaning, etc.

And then it suggests you cut out the things you really don't care about. Like Starbucks coffee - I like it but it is not important to me. Speakers are important to me (three different sets in a very small apartment? Hmmmm).

Anyway, the authors manage/managed to live on $6,000 per year (each) and found a lot of pleasure in giving away a lot of money to really needy people through good, well run charities. Also, by living thriftly they were able to work at jobs they really wanted to work at and not worry about income.

(Part of their secret was working at high paying jobsand saving like crazy while they were young, as well.)

Point being, yes there is a place for good sounding speakers in a simple life style - if it floats your boat. According to one of the most well respected books on the topic.

Maybe I should announce that I have "arrived" sonically and check out ways to easily donate to good charities from here on out.

Hopefully all the NAD and HK recievers on the face of the earth will disappear so I won't want one of them. Big screen tvs are worthless, too, right?
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 851
Registered: Feb-05
Not!
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 852
Registered: Feb-05
Just kidding, I hope you are satisfied with your system so that you do what makes you happy with your money. Gidday.
 

Silver Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 930
Registered: Mar-05
Don,

thanks for the welcome...nope no way I could resist a thread named liked this one! : )

That sounds like an interesting book, I'll have to look it up on Amazon...would LOVE to figure out how to live on $6000/year!

I'd look at all your speaker buying as a learning process. As long as you don't end up with TEN sets of speakers of which you only use one set, you're OK...just keep reselling the ones you don't like. I am VERY envious of your having such a mellow wife!
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 125
Registered: Jul-04
"I'd look at all your speaker buying as a learning process. As long as you don't end up with TEN sets of speakers of which you only use one set, you're OK...just keep reselling the ones you don't like. I am VERY envious of your having such a mellow wife!"

Yeah - my "hobby" of buying and selling cds brings in enough money that I can buy a lot of cds to keep and some speakers. I like your point - I can sell the Athenas, or the ascends or the axioms if I decide they aren't really worth the cost (to me and my satisfaction).

I bought the athenas to save money, but the ascends came available at a great price and I didn't want to wonder what if. I think they will be clearly better and worth it to me - over the ascends. And, a one time purchase. The M22s are pretty much that quality.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 126
Registered: Jul-04
David A. Kulisch - where are you?

STOP listening to your new cbm-170s and report to us!!
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 127
Registered: Jul-04
Hooked up the cbm-170's. Shorter but wider than the Athenas. Less detail in the treble but still plenty detailed. The Athena's graph shows what I heard - that they over emphasize the high frequencies. Same with the Axiom 2/22/60/80 line. Either one is fine with me - I liked the tipped up high end of the Athenas and the axioms. The graph of the ascends shows what I think I am hearing now - no over acentuation of any frequency. An almost Mackie-esque freq response chart.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 128
Registered: Jul-04
I am taking over this thread! All posts by me all the time!!
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 842
Registered: Feb-04
:-)

Opps! Sorry about that!
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 129
Registered: Jul-04
Hmm - who comes in and puts all these hyperlinks in my posts? Does this happen automatically on ecoustics?
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 130
Registered: Jul-04
":-)

Opps! Sorry about that!"

GET OFF MY THREAD - unless you want to talk speakers.

(:
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 844
Registered: Feb-04
Won't happen agin.

Oh oh. It just did.

I won't happen again excluding this time!
 

John McA
Unregistered guest
So is that an endorsement or a rejection of the Ascends? Sounds like you like the Athenas better. That would be the first semi-negative comment I've seen on the Ascends.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Dakulis

Spokane, Washington United States

Post Number: 86
Registered: May-05
Don,

Sorry about that. Got the Ascends last night. DID not forget you. I was out of town all day, got home at 6:30 p.m. and no Ascends. Started dinner, saw the UPS truck, UPS truck pulled into neighbor's driveway, backed up to neighbor's garage and began unloading. BOO HOO.

UPS truck finally unloaded, started across the street and pulled into my driveway. YAHOO!! I met her at the bottom of the stairs, "excited, aren't we?" "You bet, I said."

Carried box into house. Wife said, "finish your dinner, first." (This was strategically placed here so Paul could interrupt string to tell me that "I'M WHIPPED.") I finished dinner just in time to go to concert (Mormon Tabernacle Choir - much better than I expected so I'm buying their new CD as a friend's constant, annoying comments about "her instrument" when she was talking about her voice, suddenly made sense) as this orchestra and choir made incredible music that seamlessly came together, AH, but I digress.)

Anyway, got home at 11:00 p.m., had to go to bed so I could be at work early and finish what I didn't get done yesterday. So, the Ascends sit in their box, where they will likely stay until tomorrow night since I've got two appts. this evening. SO, all that said, I have nothing to report, yet, Don.

So, what do you think of the Ascends, it sounds like they are probably the most neutral speaker of the several you have? I am suspecting that I'll hear the same thing, if I ever get them hooked up. Yeah, I know I could have said that in about 5 words BUT what's the fun in that?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Dakulis

Spokane, Washington United States

Post Number: 89
Registered: May-05
OK,

I'm taking over Don's string since he failed to acknowledge my existence. Also, I just got done with most of what I needed to get done, it's 4:15 p.m. approximately and I can actually go home and play with my new speakers, I think.

So, I'll report more later if I can get the chance. Adios, amigos.
 

John McA
Unregistered guest
Not that I mind hearing from Edster and the other Ascendites on the forum, but I was hoping that Don or David or some other neutral would give a report. Put down the remote and tell us what you think!
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 131
Registered: Jul-04
John McA "So is that an endorsement or a rejection of the Ascends? Sounds like you like the Athenas better. That would be the first semi-negative comment I've seen on the Ascends."

This was just the initial impression - I heard so much high frequency things with the Athena (since they are tipped up intentionally I think) that I wondered where that was when the Ascends were hooked up. When I first hooked up the athenas I thought they had too much high end crispness, but I guess I got used to it. It was very nice with the jazz cd I was playing - three acoustic guitarists including charlie byrd.

The Ascends are definitely better. I just need to let my brain adjust back to normal - or now to the Ascends. But even before they adjust the Ascends are better. Nice midrange. I walk from the room the Axiom M22s are in and when I enter the room the Ascend 170s are in it is no longer a step down. The Ascends may be better.

Just different amount of high frequency detail to my ears, though comparing the Frequency response graphs - maybe this is what a flat speaker sounds like. The Ascends actually seem to have a bit more treble than the Axioms according to the graphs. but the Athena's have more high end.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 132
Registered: Jul-04
Thanks for the report David. Hope you find the time soon, but I know how it is - you better obey your wife (hangs head in despair).

John McA -
I have read stuff like the thread Jorge posted a link to - http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=1072 - from the ascend forum that says the 170s are equal to the B&W 700s (but not the 800 line) and are equal to some of the better Paradigm speakers (but not as good as the Paradigm signature series).

Then one of the review that Ascend links to says the ascends are about equal to another speaker costing about $400. The link is:

One group of three on the axiom boards said the Axiom M22s were equal to the Ascend 170s. Another guy on headfi.org that owned paradigm studio 20s said the axiom M22s were definitely not as good, no contest. (in other words, if the M22s and the Ascend 170s are equal, the Paradigm studio reference series beats them both, but others disagree).

So, some think they are the best in the world and others think they are slightly above average. If you added all the reveiws up and divided by the number of review you would come up with the ascends being a pretty darn good speaker - near the best for the price. That was good enough to tempt me.

I hope that made sense - at least it did to me.

Bottom line so far - as good as the M22s if not better, definitely better than the $100 Athena B-1s, and less high end detail than the Athena B-1s - which is probably a good thing once my ears adjust back.
 

John McA
Unregistered guest
Thank you for clarifying, Don. I tend to listen to a lot of jazz so a clean clear sound is appealing. Is there enough bass with just the 170s alone?
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 870
Registered: Feb-05
Remember John to listen to how he described the sound and consider what kind of sound you want. The Ascends have a loyal following and generally describe their sound using similar words to describe their characteristics much as do folks who enjoy their Axiom's and Athena's. What's key is to listen for commonality in their description of the sound not whether they like them or not. You may like a speaker for the very same reason someone else dislikes them. I was reading a thread earlier where someone liked an Axiom speaker better than an Ascend that is not common so I read why he liked it better and it was because he wanted a different high end than I would like. His description of why he liked the Axiom's would have turned me off to them.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 133
Registered: Jul-04
review of ascends that doesn't seem as glowing as the others, but still pretty good (forgot to insert it in above post)

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/reviews/GoodSound_Ascend_v3.pdf

look under "comparison"
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 134
Registered: Jul-04
John McA: "Thank you for clarifying, Don. I tend to listen to a lot of jazz so a clean clear sound is appealing. Is there enough bass with just the 170s alone?"

I haven't listened to bass heavy material yet with the ascends - just some classical and only for about 30 minutes to an hour. So, I hesitate to say yet.

The ascends do seem very clear and "transparent" to coin a term (actually to use a word I never liked before now). One of the first things that struck me was were is their sound? All I can hear is the music. No accentuated bass, no accented treble.

I don't want to say too much - my ear is not that educated and my ascend experience is short. More tomorrow probably.

Unless the wife forbids me...
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 135
Registered: Jul-04
if it is any help, I think the athenas have the most accented treble, the axioms next and the ascends least of the three. Some people think the axioms have too much treble - but I think it is a matter of taste AND something you get used to after a while. The Athenas have more tipped up treble than the axioms.

If I hadn't heard the axioms and the ascends I would be loving my cheap Athena b1s! I still like them very much. A better comparison would be the B2s or the F series I guess.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 136
Registered: Jul-04
And a correction from way above - the axiom M22 graphs do not seem to suggest a "piercing" or "detailed" high end. But they do sound more that way than the ascends. The ascends don't seem to accent the high treble as much.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 137
Registered: Jul-04
HA! My wife and I spend a week at the beach every summer with another couple - old friends. He just bought a motorcycle and is traveling up to Maine to pick it up (ebay maybe?).

So, his wife asks me if I know of any good places to sight see while in Maine or New Hampshire since I am from there.

I mention this to my wife and she says "a motorcycle! Those things are dangerous" My come back was "Yeah, all I buy are new speakers - they are not dangerous."

A little perspective can help adjust the WAF!

If I have any more WAF problems I will just call up Paul, but for now it is not a problem!
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 138
Registered: Jul-04
All me all the time!!
 

John McA
Unregistered guest
Thanks again, Don. Bottom line is that you seem to like them and the product is legit. I have never bought anything sight unseen (or in this case unheard).
 

Silver Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 949
Registered: Mar-05
Art has some good insight there.

I love the Ascends for their flat, neutral and natural sound but some people may actually prefer a more accentuated sound.

Still makes me grin to think back to my headbanger days when I'd always have the 'ole EQ set in a U-shape: no mids and severely exaggerated bass & treble.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 140
Registered: Jul-04
John McA - for the record, Edster also often is observed recommending Athena Speakers here on the ecoustics house of speakers threads.

I think he just likes some of the very good cheap speakers, and is not a shill or fanboy for the Ascends company. A lot of his advice seems right from other places I have read.

To me it seems, from reading all over the net, that some other speakers can be about as cheap and about as good - but the ascend is right up there with the best.

BTW - I came here to get some advice rather than just the ascend forum since most on the ascend forum would necessarily be invested and understandibly a little biased. But the Axiom board site seemed to have favorable impressions of the ascend speakers as well.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 141
Registered: Jul-04
"Thanks again, Don. Bottom line is that you seem to like them and the product is legit. I have never bought anything sight unseen (or in this case unheard)."

I do like them. After about two or three hours I still find myself looking for those tipped up high frequencies that the Athena's had, and that the axioms have a little of. The ascends seem more natural, though.

I need to give it more time to see what the comparison would be with the M22s.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 142
Registered: Jul-04
Links for frequency response graphs:

Ascend 170s: http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/ascend_cbm170/

Axiom M22s: http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/axiom_m22ti_se/

Athena B1s: http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/athena_asb1/ (Geez - even the listening window is tipped up. usually the listening window has less high treble since the high frequencies will just be multiplied by the room).

for comparison sakes - Paradigm Reference Studio 20 v.3 (which I heard are better than the M22s) http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/paradigm_studio20_v3/
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 873
Registered: Feb-05
Don thanks for posting that review. Note: the reviewer was comparing the Ascends to Paradigms lowest line, the Performance series. I have owned the Esprit's in the last year on my way up through the Monitor series and then the Reference line. Sounds like they compared favorably though not overwhelmingly with the Esprit's. The larger Ascend model is just that larger with the same technology. With Paradigm however you move up a quuantum leap with each range. The Monitor series is considerably better than the Performance series and the Reference is in yet another league altogether from the Monitor series. The Signature's... well... they are truly marvelous. Read the comparison between the Esprit and the Ascend and come to your own conclusions.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 143
Registered: Jul-04
From the avs forum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-418121.html

Alimental 07-01-04, 03:01 PM

Okay, now you made me look. Well, the Ethera Vitae measured best overall IMO, with the Revels, Dynaudios, and, surprisingly, the little Ascends coming in close thereafter (a little high in midrange distortion, but pretty flat), then the Paradigms (I hope I didn't forget anybody). All the other popular names were pretty mediocre - B&W, PSB, Mirage, Von Schweikert etc without being terrible, etc. None of these are sealed, and none of my favorites were there, but I don't think there's a single sealed system on the list! Bummer. But, really, there were some *amazingly* bad measurements on some speakers. So bad, they shouldn't have even qualified for review. REALLY bad. And I'll bet they weren't cheap either. You can tell that the people designing them couldn't possibly have had good measuring tools. Awful. The surprisingly bad ones were the Axioms (yech!) and the Wilsons (which need to be stellar for the price). Anybody who wants to buy into the Axiom marketing needs to see the measurements. Not bad for the price, but bad for the hype! No wonder I thought they sounded bad.

http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/axiom_m80ti/
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 144
Registered: Jul-04
"Note: the reviewer was comparing the Ascends to Paradigms lowest line, the Performance series. I have owned the Esprit's in the last year on my way up through the Monitor series and then the Reference line. Sounds like they compared favorably though not overwhelmingly with the Esprit's. The larger Ascend model is just that larger with the same technology. With Paradigm however you move up a quuantum leap with each range. The Monitor series is considerably better than the Performance series and the Reference is in yet another league altogether from the Monitor series. The Signature's... well... they are truly marvelous. Read the comparison between the Esprit and the Ascend and come to your own conclusions."

GOOD POINT - base on information provided by the Ascend company, the ascends are NOT better than some speakers costing 2 or 3 times as much, and are just a little better than speakers costing $80 more.

Or am I misunderstanding this one review.

Still, just one persons opinion, I guess.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Dakulis

Spokane, Washington United States

Post Number: 91
Registered: May-05
Don,

I'm back and I've now heard the Ascends. I'm sticking my thoughts on my old string. BUT, if you want the information in here, I'll give you a shorter version some time. thanks, Dave.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 146
Registered: Jul-04
https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/139726.html

David's thread.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Dakulis

Spokane, Washington United States

Post Number: 93
Registered: May-05
Don,

Thanks, that was very kind and solves the "how do I put this into fewer words problem." Anyway, I had the chance to catch up a little and read your thread from where I left it and I would agree with your thoughts/description of the Ascend performance.

I am now a little curious about how the 340s compare in sound to the 170s as I have now considered purchasing the 340s and using them as rears, at least, until I can convince my wife that we need a new plasma TV, which means that the dang stereo/TV cabinet will disappear, which is the current restriction/reason for bookshelf fronts. Any thoughts anyone? (No Paul, I cannot lose the wife with the cabinet, I'm afraid, I'm still kinda attached to her, even more than the Ascends right now.)
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jorge59

Rio de JaneiroBrasil

Post Number: 25
Registered: May-05
To compare Ascends with Athena in cost-benefit terms, can anybody objectively rank the list concerning clarity/fidelity/imaging and indicate price?

CBM-170 / HTM-200 / AS-B1 / AS-B2 / AS-B2.2.
CMT-340 vs AS-C2; AS-C1 vs HTM-200.

Consider use for concert DVDs (pop/rock) and movies, with addition of sub, small room.

thanks
 

Bronze Member
Username: Dakulis

Spokane, Washington United States

Post Number: 100
Registered: May-05
HTM-200s - shipped are about $294/pair
CBM-170s - shipped are about $345/pair
CMT - 340s - shipped are about $570/pair
The others I can't help ya with, you'll have to look them up yourself. I've only heard the 170s so I cannot comment on how they sound compared to the other Ascend products, check with Edster on that.

Actually, I'm just posting this in order to reach my 100th post so that Don will give me a prize - I'm thinkin' one pair of his overabundant speaker collection would do, right Don? LOL
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 856
Registered: Feb-04
Congrats on your 100!

Wonder when I'll reach 1000...
 

Anonymous
 
If only they counted my posts...I'd have millions.
 

Silver Member
Username: Dakulis

Spokane, Washington United States

Post Number: 102
Registered: May-05
Peter, you'll get there soon I suspect, You've got staying power, all Canadians do. Heck, you go outside when it's 40 below and play hockey, right? :-)

Yeah, Anonymous, I see your posts all the time so I quit counting at about 899,993 or so. LOL
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 857
Registered: Feb-04
Active guys in the last month:

Paul
947 total posts on May 24
1308 total posts on June 20
-> 361 posts!

Jan
3766 on May 23
4205 on June 23
-> 439 posts
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 858
Registered: Feb-04
Subfanatic
1688 March 27
3692 May 23
4320 June 19

Looks like Subfanatic and Jan are in a race...
:-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 148
Registered: Jul-04
"AS-B2 / AS-B2.2"

I read an article that said the athena b series is exactly the same as the bx.2 series (b1 and b1.2 are the same, b2 and b2.2 the same).

The feedback they got from their customers was that they didn't need to change a thing. So, they didn't. The interviewer/reviewer agreed.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 149
Registered: Jul-04
Ok David

To show our appreciation for reaching your 100th post - you can have my Bose 141s!!

Why the #$%$@# do I have Bose speakers? I got them long ago and hooked them to my computer - since they were better than those old emachine 333k speakers (absolute worst speaker ever!). I am assuming my sound card is next to worthless so what is the point of trying to make it sound good. Maybe I am wrong.
 

Walrus
Unregistered guest
I vote for the Insanity speakers!
 

Silver Member
Username: Dakulis

Spokane, Washington United States

Post Number: 114
Registered: May-05
Thanks Don, you're such a sport - BOSE, I'm so excited. It's like grandma french kissing you after you blow out the candles on the old birthday cake, God bless her soul, I really did love her, you know.

Anyway, you can put those in an envelope and ship them to me, can't you? At least that's what Paul tells me. Going to bed now, goodnight all.
 

Silver Member
Username: Twebbz

Ann Arbor, Michigan USA

Post Number: 130
Registered: Apr-04
BTW...The big change to the Athena line was a decrease in weight of the AS-F2 & AS-F1. They were being damaged in shipment due to their heft. The AS-F1 is also two inches shallower to be more flush with Home Theater setups. Driver colors were changed to appear more high tech & match the silver housings of flat screen TVs.
 

Barnacle
Unregistered guest
Wow! That must have been very tough for Alimental to write as he is a NHT dealer and hates the $ensible Sound review placing the $328 Ascend Acoustics 170 on near even footing with $1200 a pair M6s outside of the bass and high volume. http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/reviews/TSSascendreprint.pdf

As for stepping up the Paradigm ladder and improvements. A lot of that has to do with the extension of thier performance range. The designer for Ascend carried over his philosophy from his days designing for M&K of not trying to dip low but make the best overall sound within a cabinet size's normal/natural ability. I'd put the 340s and a Hsu STF1 at $1000 up against a pair of Paradigm Studio 100s at $2000 without a problem. Ascend does not try to reproduce mid-bass below 70(170)-55(340)hz but leaves that to the sub. I was a huge Paradigm fan before finding Ascend Acoustics.

High strings notes are were I find the big difference between the M-22 and the 170. I personally think the 170's mids are a bit smoother.
 

Gold Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 1026
Registered: Mar-05
Barnacle,

yikes, what an expose! Never heard of this Alimental fella.

BTW, a pair of 340s and Hsu STF-1 would only be $872 shipped, I think you meant 340s + STF-2 which would be $985 shipped?

Which Paradigms have you personally listened to? Have you ever taken your Ascends in to a Paradigm shop for an a/b comparison?
 

Barnacle
Unregistered guest
I forget Alimental's real name which he uses on some boards. I have seen it referenced on a few boards, John ??? a NHT dealer somewere in the southwest.

I did mean the STF-1. The Studio 100 is clean to 44hz and the STF-1 runs clean to 32hz. I'm including the matching stands for the 340s in my $1,000 price. I haven't done a direct comparison with the Paradigms outside of my own Mini-Monitors(sold) and the 170s. I had Studio 20s as a goal and had listened to them quite a lot. I have listened to the 100s a good bit at the dealer too. I was really into Paradigm. I spent a lot of time listening at the Paradigm dealer. Outside of bottom end extension I personally find the 170 better than the Studio 20.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 171
Registered: Jul-04
"High strings notes are were I find the big difference between the M-22 and the 170"

What do you mean? The M22s are less controlled? Or more detailed in the high strings?

"I was really into Paradigm. I spent a lot of time listening at the Paradigm dealer. Outside of bottom end extension I personally find the 170 better than the Studio 20."

So you like the 170 better than the Paradigm Studio Reference 20?

A guy on head-fi posted that he had the Axiom M22s and Paradigm studio 20s amd it was no contest - the Paradigm were head and shoulders better.

On the Axiom list three guys found the M22 and the Ascend 170s to be very close - about equal (which is what I find).

So the Paradigm studio 20s will beat the s**t out of Axiom M22s and Ascend 170s - according to him - for about double the price.

And you say otherwise?

I just want to understand how good my speakers are since I did not compare them that much.
 

Anonymous
 
How can I put this as delicately as possible...Get a frickin life Don.

What sounds great to one person can sound like crap to another. Unfortunately what this means to you is that some people are going to think your speakers suck.

Also, since you did not compare your speakers that much, you will also never know if anything out there is better to your ears (which are the only ones that count) for the same or less money.

All three of those speakers are excellent and you would be so lucky as to own any of them. If you like your speakers, then great; enjoy them and stop asking if your speakers are good. You aren't going to get a medal for picking out a good pair of speakers. If you aren't happy with them (which it sounds like since you are here whining and asking how good they are) then return them.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 172
Registered: Jul-04
Thanks for the considerate response, Anonymous.

I am just trying to educate myself - and I think this is what we do here on ecoustics speaker threads - compare notes.

I am very happy with the Ascends and the Axiom M22s. I am just trying to get a handle on speakers I will probably never want to shell out money for - like B&W 700, 800 range and the Paradigm speakers. And how they compare to what I have.

I am interested in why this bothers you - or sounds like whining. Feel free to fill me in.
 

Anonymous
 
If you want to do comparisons take your speakers to the local hi-fi shop and do comparisons. Other people's opinions are meaningless. Barnacle loves his Ascends more than Paradigms. Someone else may not. What good does it do you? They are both great speakers with fan bases who are rabid about them. You will never get a clear answer about which speaker is superior because there is no clear answer. It will do your mind a lot of good to just sit back, relax and enjoy the sounds from your speakers instead of sit on a computer and ask if a pair of $1,500 Paradigms will "beat" them.
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 979
Registered: Feb-05
Good advice anon you should register and join us.
 

Anonymous
 
And BTW, my Paradigm Atoms wipe the floor with your weenie Ascends and Axioms.
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 980
Registered: Feb-05
Spoke too soon!
 

Anonymous
 
No worries Arthur. Just giving Don a little jab.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 173
Registered: Jul-04
Yeah

Atoms aren't THAT good, imho, but they are good.

I guess I don't care enough and have enough time to take them to the local paradigm store where they probably also have B&Ws and compare.

I think the range against B&Ws that I have heard is that the ascends are somewhere around the 600 or 700s depending on who you talk to. That is good enough info for me.

The paradigms I have much less of a grasp on - except for the Atoms and the Titans that I did audition.

And, further, I think I really need to listen for days with my ears. I cannot tell within fifteen minutes. Last time I tried that I ended up with Paradigm Titans. Take a look at their graph. After a few years I couldn't take that distortion any more.
 

Anonymous
 
I don't actually own Atoms; it was a joke ... Although I bet if I got my dirty little mits on them and made a few cheap upgrades they could sound as good as Ascends.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 174
Registered: Jul-04
Well, I will keep asking the question of how ascends and axioms compare to other speakers costingunder $1000 or so.

If you don't like the question, I am sorry.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 175
Registered: Jul-04
Your joke about the Atoms almost made my point - I couldn't hear much of a difference between the atoms, titans, Focus and the whole Paradigm line that was in that room. About 10 speakers maybe arranged in order of cost.

Obviously the bigger ones had better bass, but other than that I couldn't tell in the store.

I almost bought those Atoms but the Titans had more bass.

I think that - for me - asking around has brought more satisfying results. The Axioms and the Ascends were bought without having the opportunity to listen. But the reviews were consistently good.
 

Anonymous
 
Just keep in mind that the answers are meaningless Don. You might want to go to the respective Axiom and Ascend forums though if you want peace of mind. There are lots more fanboys over there willing to say that their speakers are way better than the cruddy old Paradigm Studio series.
 

Silver Member
Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon USA

Post Number: 983
Registered: Feb-05
The Atoms are actually quite a good speaker but they require expensive electronics to bring it out. Paradigm is brand best auditioned at home. I've owned speakers from all of their lines except the Signatures and they all have a family resemblance but in the end sound very different. I have the Studio 40v3's and would put them up against anything in that price range. They may not always be better but they will always be competitive.
 

Anonymous
 
Out of curiousity, do you use a subwoofer? If so, why did it matter that the Titans had more bass? The Atoms do have sufficient low end extension to mate with a subwoofer without any real problems.

Price doesn't always mean one product is better than another as you found out.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 176
Registered: Jul-04
I have been there to both sites and I don't want fanboy answers that is why I am here. I think people have a wider range of purchases here and I will get more objective answers.

By the way, my old Bose 301s were the best speaker I ever heard. Why do 99% of the people on this list say it is bad? I guess their "answers are meaningless." Since, there is nothing objective about speaker quality. Thd, Freguency response, all that bogus scinetific measurement stuff.

Speaker face offs where 5 or more people rate the same speakers in the same setting - it is all meaningless.

People should just log off this stupid site and spend more time in the stereo stores.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 177
Registered: Jul-04
I did not use a subwoofer at the time. Now I do.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 178
Registered: Jul-04
I do apologize for my spelling, but I cannot edit it. Sorry
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 179
Registered: Jul-04
"The Atoms are actually quite a good speaker but they require expensive electronics to bring it out. Paradigm is brand best auditioned at home. I've owned speakers from all of their lines except the Signatures and they all have a family resemblance but in the end sound very different. I have the Studio 40v3's and would put them up against anything in that price range. They may not always be better but they will always be competitive."

I appreciate that bit of information, but I suppose I should ignore it cause it is meaningless?

Sure, one needs to sift through others takes on speakers, or you might end up buying Paul's Cerwin Vegas! (Ok, now I am asking for abuse). But the raw opinions are helpful and much more efficient than listening to every speaker in five stores.

One needs to focus in on the most worthwhile speaker to listen to (or read up on and take a chance on by mail internet sales). How do you learn to avoid the Boses and the Titans?

Maybe coming here and asking?

Granted I am asking more out of curiosity at this point. But if five people all said the Epos were twice as good as the Ascends at the same price I would look into selling the Ascends, reading more about the Epos and trying to find a store in my area to listen to the Epos (just to verify that they lived up to the reputation as far as I could tell).

If there is not speaker like that - significantly better for about the same price - then I am content. But how do I find out? Listen to every damn speaker in every store in the DC area?

I once decided against the NHT something or other based on listening, but went after reading many good reviews of them. (which is probably your point). Listening, for me, is just one way to find out what is good. Reviews is definitely another, though.
 

Anonymous
 
"People should just log off this stupid site and spend more time in the stereo stores."

Exactly. If you want to see what you like, there is no substitute.

"By the way, my old Bose 301s were the best speaker I ever heard. Why do 99% of the people on this list say it is bad? I guess their "answers are meaningless.""

If you think they are the best speakers you have ever heard, then yes, their answers are meaningless.

"Since, there is nothing objective about speaker quality. Thd, Freguency response, all that bogus scinetific measurement stuff."

There is plenty that is objective. If there is a gaping hole in frequency response, even an uneducated listener can hear it. They may not be able to interpret it, but they can hear it. However, when two speakers have very good specs, what do you look at then?
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 180
Registered: Jul-04
"significantly better for about the same price" I should cahnge to - "significantly better for about the same price or maybe up to double the price."
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 181
Registered: Jul-04
(Quote)

"By the way, my old Bose 301s were the best speakers I ever heard. Why do 99% of the people on this list say they are bad? I guess their "answers are meaningless.""

If you think they are the best speakers you have ever heard, then yes, their answers are meaningless.

(unquote)

I may think they are the best cause they sell so much or are so highly advertised.

I think I can objectively say that they are not that good for the price - based upon many user reviews, etc.

If I went and bought some for $400 and later found out I could have bought Ascends or someting much better I would feel cheated and wonder why someone didn't tell me how much of a rip off they were.

If I came to ecoustics and everyone said what Art and anonymous said - "it is all in the ear of the beholder" I would still not have a clue.

Thank God people do give their opinions here on this site in an attempt to guide others.
 

Anonymous
 
Out of curiousity, what did you do with the Titans? Since they were a few years old you could have always tried a few mods for kicks. ~$50 could have bought you some pretty high end performance.
 

Anonymous
 
You still don't have a clue Don. You're running around like a chicken with its head cut off asking whats better.
 

Anonymous
 
Ohh and

"I may think they are the best cause they sell so much or are so highly advertised. "

That would be your own stupid fault then huh?
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 182
Registered: Jul-04
Ok, I guess it is time for me to sign off.

Thanks for trying to make your point, anonymous. I agree with it but only to a certain extent, so I disagree with it, too.

Oh, well. I can get the information I want on other threads, other sites.
 

Anonymous
 
Do yourself a favor and actually LISTEN to the speakers Don. It doesn't benefit me in any way to tell you this, but it can get you that one step closer to audio nirvana. If you keep listening to others you will only end up at their idea of audio bliss, which may not be precisely the same as your own.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 183
Registered: Jul-04
Listen to which speakers? All of them in Best Buy and every other store I can find?
 

Anonymous
 
Ideally, yes. You seem to already have an idea of what brands are out there. Few of them are so flawed they don't deserve an audition. Sample them. You might well find you like a good horn loaded speaker; conversely you might find you despise them. You never know until you try.

You live in DC for Christ's sake. Its not like you don't have more than a few shops nearby that have decent selections of high quality speakers. Spend a few weekends listening to what they have to offer. As for efficiency, if you spent the kind of time auditioning speakers as you do on the net asking us what is good, you would be a whole lot closer to your goal than you are now.
 

Anonymous
 
Ohh and just as a FYI, it is supposed to be a fun hobby. Look around at what is out there and enjoy yourself. Don't drive yourself nuts worrying whether the Ascend is better than the Axiom. Its like deciding whether you want New York Strip or Ribeye for dinner.
 

Barnacle
Unregistered guest
If I was not using a sub I would take the Studio 20s over the 170s for the bottom end extension. With a sub I prefer the 170s cleaner mids and tamer top end.

High string notes- I find the M22 loses control of them. It likely is not noticeable unless you comparing them to a speaker that does not. I suspect the metal tweeter is the cause. I also find the mids a tad better on the 170 than the M22. But, as Anonymous points out these are my listening preferences.

Anonymous ..er.. Alimental/John ??? You have never gone Anonymous before why now? I agree with your advise to listen for yourself.

There is little competiton for Paradigm at the Atom/Titan price point but if Anonymous can make some Titans sound on par with or better than Studio 20s for $50 over the Titan price tag I will buy a pair. You might look at that response measurement for the 170 again. It puts the 170 in a fairly elite and small group of speakers that can do that. http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cbm170/cbm170meas.html
 

Anonymous
 
Frequency response is only one part of the equation Barnacle. You can stare at that graph all day long; it wont make Quad owners convert to Ascend.

As for modifications, a little internal bracing goes a long ways as do a few good crossover tweaks.
 

Gold Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 1043
Registered: Mar-05
hmm, "Anonymous" didn't dispute Barnacle's ID of you as "Alimental/John?"

sound like a confession by omission to me...
 

Anonymous
 
I'm not, but it doesn't really matter. The point that people have to actually listen to and compare speakers in person if they wish to have the best results is irrefutable. If you are ignorant to believe otherwise, the best of luck in your pursuit of audio bliss, because you will need it.

Of course, you (Edster) did take your speakers and compare them to the fare at your local hi-fi shop, so I am sure you know the value of doing comparisons in person. Does a lot more to ease the mind than relying on differing opinions of a product on the net.
 

Silver Member
Username: Thx_3417

Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom

Post Number: 474
Registered: May-05
Hallo there

Edster922
Upload
I have a confession to tell Edster922

It's been 7 days now I have disconnected the audio limiters, and recalibrated the sound system and it sounds a whole lot louder too....

 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 184
Registered: Jul-04
"The point that people have to actually listen to and compare speakers in person if they wish to have the best results is irrefutable."

I suppose that is one part of the equation. The other part is how much do I care? Do I want to spend weekends checking out lots of speakers or do I trust what a number of people say enough that I can focus in on a few speakers, and then only if it seems like a much better deal?

I can see your point, but my weekends are already too busy with a 2 year old and other pursuits. So, I am trying to find out during my free time which is usually after 10pm.

I think there is a range of answers one can get on any speaker - within which is guidance as to whether it is worth going to listen. It is an hour trip to any decent stereo store for me - since I live in DC. The only ones I know of are in Laurel, MD and Kensington, MD both about 45 minutes away (northeast and northwest). I do live a block from Radio Shack - but RCA speakers? I don't think so.

I am not looking for definitive answers as to what I should buy or should have bought from other people, just pointers, and approximate answers.

I don't see the point in going out to the stores at this time - for me. I am not about to plunk down money, just trying to learn the landscape.

In fact, I think I have gotten the answers I am seeking. The range of responses in comparing the Paradigm Studio 20s and the Ascends is that some like one and some like the other - so they are close (with a sub on the ascends). My question above (to Barnacle) was more to doublecheck his answer - to see if he could shed more light on his take on those speakers. It was not a panicky "oh no - should I have bought Paradigms instead" whine. I hope it didn't sound desparate, I am just trying to gather info.

Sure that is far from definitive, but in asking around I am more satisfied that what I have is fine for now.

Sure it would be better to listen in the store or even better listen in the home. But it doesn't seem worth the bother right now.

I suppose some will say if it isn't worth the bother to go and listen - then don't pester us with your questions. But others dont seem to mind sharing their take on it.

Anyway, anonymous, I appreciate your efforts to educate me and I realize you are doing it just for my benefit and maybe for others who may be reading.
 

Barnacle
Unregistered guest
"You can stare at that graph all day long; it wont make Quad owners convert to Ascend."

Very good point. The response graph does not tell you how a speaker is voiced. Just it's variation from a flat response. Which brings me back to my agreement with you get out and listen advice.

The cumulative spectral decay graph will tell you how much distortion a speaker has but again not how the speaker is voiced.

 

Gold Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 1058
Registered: Mar-05
Anon,

can't disagree with you there. I'd just add that Internet speakers present a rare opportunity to test out not only in your living room (the ideal auditioning environment) but also to be directly compared with other speakers assuming you find a willing shop. And assuming you didn't buy some 70 lb floorstanders of course.
 

Silver Member
Username: Twebbz

Ann Arbor, Michigan USA

Post Number: 176
Registered: Apr-04
If you don't like them, you can send them back.

Been there, done that.
Two 45 Lbs. packaged Axiom M50Ti's returned via UPS for $55.00.
 

Silver Member
Username: Dakulis

Spokane, Washington United States

Post Number: 130
Registered: May-05
Don,

I really don't have any more to say on the subject. It's just that you're so close to getting this string over the magic "100" mark and I thought I'd help out. Moreover, I'm bored and ready to close up shop on Friday afternoon and go home and look for a good movie for tonight. WHOOPS, I got off topic here, sorry!!! :-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 191
Registered: Jul-04
Do I get a prize for most prolonged thread? Or for original poster least willing to take advice?
 

Anonymous
 
Lucky 100 here we come!

Fück Edster
 

Gold Member
Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala The Occupation

Post Number: 1110
Registered: Mar-05
Anon,

sigh, I'm sorry dear, I hate to turn you down especially after Andy spurned your advances, but all these public displays of affection are really quite unbecoming. Really!
 

Silver Member
Username: Dakulis

Spokane, Washington United States

Post Number: 132
Registered: May-05
Geez Don,

How the heck did you pass me up in posts already, you postin' fool, you.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 200
Registered: Jul-04
I registered over a year ago - back when I was looking and ended up with Axioms. Then I went to the Axiom boards, then went to Head-Fi and ended up buying an IRiver and five or six headphones - two of which I still have!!

Now my addiction to music has brought me back here to ecoustics - where I think one gets less biased advice than on one of the boards sponsored by a speaker company. I thought the Axiom boards people were very honest and nice and encouraging others to buy whatever they thought were the best, axiom or not. But, almost everyone was there because they had bought Axioms.

Ecoustics is more like head-fi - no house brand to go on and on about.

Oh, so that was pointer number one - register early. Pointer number two - get into a stupid argument with an anonymous poster, and as you end up losing the fight keep defending yourself.

Actually I am not sure we disagreed that much, I think we didn't define our positions as well as we could have - at least I didn't.
 

Silver Member
Username: Twebbz

Ann Arbor, Michigan USA

Post Number: 183
Registered: Apr-04
I think many of the people who buy Axioms do little listening to other brands and think they are pretty good when they receive them and then get to like them. If they are on the fence during the 30 day trial period maybe they think it will be a hassle to return them. I can tell you that it was awful reboxing the M50ti's (Fortunatley I'm a little guy and could crawl into the boxes to reposition the foam spacers...) and getting them to UPS for return. I think Axiom knows that their speakers would not compare favorable side by side with other speakers so they remain an internet only company. They used to sell in retail stores in Canada but stopped, why else. Personally, I thought the tweeter was sweet but the aluminum midrange/bass drivers rang and the multiple bass ports created a problem for speaker placement. If you read the boards you can see that there are issues with the speakers but those people seem to still like them...to each his own.
 

Silver Member
Username: Twebbz

Ann Arbor, Michigan USA

Post Number: 184
Registered: Apr-04
And on the ATHENA subject...I would not recommend the Series Two Audition line to anybody simply because at this point, they are not sold in retail stores. If you cannot listen to a speaker before you buy it, move on...to your local stereo shop.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 201
Registered: Jul-04
"I think many of the people who buy Axioms do little listening to other brands and think they are pretty good when they receive them and then get to like them."

That is a pretty broad brush to paint with. At least I had PAradigm Titans before ordering Axiom speakers, but some Axiom owners had other speakers or went to stores. Some Axiom owners probably go to the website read the linked reviews and never compare, so you are probably right in some cases.

"If they are on the fence during the 30 day trial period maybe they think it will be a hassle to return them."

I returned M3s - but Axiom paid for the return shipping since I was upgrading. If I were not upgrading you might have been right in my case. But I thought they sounded good and my friend who does proaudio work said they were very good.

"I can tell you that it was awful reboxing the M50ti's (Fortunatley I'm a little guy and could crawl into the boxes to reposition the foam spacers...) and getting them to UPS for return. I think Axiom knows that their speakers would not compare favorable side by side with other speakers so they remain an internet only company."

Your opinion does count a lot with me cause you actually bought them and if anything would have been biased toward keeping them - rather than admitting you made a mistake and paying return shipping and having to pack them up. Maybe the M50s just weren't your cup of tea? Maybe they are objectively poor? I lean toward the former, but I don't know.

"They used to sell in retail stores in Canada but stopped, why else."

By cutting out the middle man they can sell them cheaper and therefore sell more. And more value for the customer, in theory at least.

"Personally, I thought the tweeter was sweet but the aluminum midrange/bass drivers rang and the multiple bass ports created a problem for speaker placement. If you read the boards you can see that there are issues with the speakers but those people seem to still like them...to each his own."

I can't argue with you on the M50s - I haven't heard them. I think the M22s are pretty good, after having compared them some to Paradigm in the show room (my M22s at home) and with Titans in my home (which should be no contest - the M22s cost about $100-$150 more which is a big difference at that price range).

I appreciate your review, but after reading a lot of postive M50 reviews I wonder what I would think.
 

Silver Member
Username: Dakulis

Spokane, Washington United States

Post Number: 134
Registered: May-05
Don,

The big issue is that you have now compared the M22s to the Titans and you liked the M22s more. Then, you bought Ascend 170s and you've compared them to the M22s and Titans, so where do they fit. They're at the same price point as the M22s and I believe you like them better, correct?

I compared the 170s to everything I could find locally, including KEFs and the BA VR line which cost 2-3 times as much. To me, the Ascends sound better but Rick might disagree. That's the joy of speakers and hi-fi, it's fairly subjective once you quit looking at the graphs and start listening.

Everyone tells me the 170s are very neutral. Maybe, they just sounded better to me than the others things I listened to. Now, I didn't listen to Axioms, Paradigm, B & W, GMAs and many others that are out there. There may be a speaker out there I would like better but I'm happy with what I bought. Enough so, I'm in the process of getting the whole shooting match. It's likely I'll keep them 5-10 years and probably add on when Ascends comes out with their next super speaker. We'll see.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 202
Registered: Jul-04
I think so far the Ascend 170s and the Axiom M22s are equal - the M22s are sharper - somewhere in the upper end they emphasize more "detail" though I wouldn't call the ascends "less detailed" - maybe just more neutral?

I still need to A/B them to be sure. Different rooms, the Ascends are at the end of much longer wire lengths (50+ feet of fairly think wire). The ascends tend to be three feet from my ears while the M22s are about 8-12 feet away.

To me they are in the same class. The M22s may be a little more "colored" or sharp in the high frequencies as I have said ad nauseum here. But I like that coloration. I turned up the volume on the AScends the other day and was very impressed. Very clear at high volumes. WOW! Do the M22s do that? I suppose it is close but maybe not quite as clear. Ascends have a fuller sounding midrange. Bass seems equal to me.

BTW, I have read a lot of Rick's posts and think he has a good handle on things. I hope I didn't sound in my last post like I was saying "it can't be that any Axiom speaker would displease any listener, blah, blah, blah." People should listen to his take on the M50s and not mine. He has heard them, and did research on them before buying them.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 203
Registered: Jul-04
One review of M50s from audioreview

http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speakers/main-speaker/axiom-speaker-company/PRD_1 25690_1594crx.aspx

"There's a reason why there is a gap in the reviews between the M22s and the M60's. Ive owned the M22s and they have an excellent sweet spot. Its a great little bookshelf but i needed something with a little more power and soundstage for home theatre. That brings me to the M50s. They indeed have more power but the musicality and openess isn't there. You have to turn them up really high to get performance out of them. When watching movies they lack detail as L&R channel. Your better off with the M22s. I havent heard the M60s but i believe its worth the extra money to upgrade because the extra midrange woofer makes a huge difference when it comes to detail. Dont let Axiom fool you with there overwhelming reviews....most of them are contrived. If you have a pair..take out the woofer and you will see the lack of quality put into this speaker. Check out the silly bucking magnet for shielding. Good speakers but nothing more"
 

Silver Member
Username: Dakulis

Spokane, Washington United States

Post Number: 136
Registered: May-05
No, I thought you were being fair with Rick. Frankly, I haven't seen you really push any agenda yet, BUT, I'll be keeping my eye on ya. :-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Twebbz

Ann Arbor, Michigan USA

Post Number: 185
Registered: Apr-04
I was really disappointed when I realized that I didn't like the M50's. I liked them at first, thought fit and finsh were great, then heard midrange and bass peculiarities, then compared them directly to my Athena AS-F2s. I immidiately knew I had to send them back. The reason I tried them was because the people on the message boards are so enthused about Axiom that I thought I could not go wrong. But, the M50 had the least amount of praise except for the M40s which Axiom just dropped. Yes, I've read incredible reviews of their bookshelf speakers and of course, many people love them but still, I'm not going to buy speakers unless I listen to them first. Once bitten, twice shy. Sorry if I hit a nerve Don. No harm intended.

When I write something I try to back it up with personal experience. Concerning Axiom, I participated in the message boards for a couple months before my purchase (61 posts) to try to feel out what people REALLY thought about their speakers. And I did try the speakers for more than a week. My thoughts, therefore were an account of my PERSONAL Axiom experience.

Again on the ATHENA front...The series one AS-F1s that I did choose are not perfect either. They sound boomy at times and require a bass control cut. When pushed hard playing a selection with heavy bass content the midrange smears. Overall though, I like the character of the AS-F1s and they are part of a secondary household system so they will be just fine.
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 204
Registered: Jul-04
"Sorry if I hit a nerve Don. No harm intended."

Oh, no - I thought your post was fine. I guess I am a little invested in Axioms and have read so many good reviews that I felt some need to respond - but maybe I should have let you have the last word on M50s.

So, the AS-F2 are significantly better than the F1s? I like my B-1s but I don't think they compare at all to the F series.
 

New member
Username: Paully

Post Number: 1
Registered: Jul-05
Has anyone here bought the new Athenas (silver )and can comment on them?

I am looking to get a set for surround and have only heard the old ones

thx... (first time caller)
 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 205
Registered: Jul-04
Hey - first time caller - please turn your radio down. Thanks

Now for our panel of experts - who would like to respond to our caller first?
 

Silver Member
Username: Twebbz

Ann Arbor, Michigan USA

Post Number: 186
Registered: Apr-04
Yea, the F2s seem to do it all for me. The character of the F2 & F1 is the same. One just cannot blast the F1's and they are somewhat less balanced requiring fiddling with the tone controls. Never have to touch the tone controls for the AS-F2s.

Paul, the Series Two are just hitting the internet now and I don't think Best Buy is going to carry the Audition line anymore, just HT stuff & subs. It may be a while before you see a post on the Series Two.

Go to www.athenaspeakers.com and ask them about a change in the sound between the old and new. They answer almost immediately. They told me that the new AS-F1s had a shift in bass emphasis, which I suspected because the cabinet was made smaller.
 

Silver Member
Username: Chitown

Post Number: 152
Registered: Apr-05
Rick I don't know if I agree with your earlier assessment about why people like the Axiom. Here are some points to consider:

1) Auditioning, purchasing, and returning speakers are no easier when done in stores. I auditioned a bunch of speakers before buying my Axioms and though I was strictly looking at bookshelves and their return would not have been as much trouble, I would rather send them back with UPS to Canada then to deal with the stares and attitudes of the salespeople at the store when returning a product.

2) In store audition is not your ideal environment either. It is not your room and most likely not your reciever. Our local Paradigm dealer does not carry my receiver and in general does not have a big selection of receivers. So what you hear there is not necessarily replicated at home.

3) In talking about convinience, I can argue that your impetous to get into the store and make a purchase creates a far stronger resistance to hear weakness in that speaker than ordering on-line and trying at home.

It is very possible that I don't have the ears to hear the difference, but that's not the reason why I am keeping my Axioms.


 

Silver Member
Username: Twebbz

Ann Arbor, Michigan USA

Post Number: 187
Registered: Apr-04
The one most interesting aspect of this site is that no one can ever make a critical statement about ANY piece of equipment without it blowing up in their face.

Have fun boys...I'm outta here.


 

Silver Member
Username: Donaldekelly

Washington, DC Usa

Post Number: 207
Registered: Jul-04
I know how you feel Rick. I am not sure Stof meant to be harassing you on your idea, he seemed fairly evenhanded to me, but I still know what you mean.

Earlier on this thread I wondered what the point was to continue to read or post after some disagreement with Anonymous.
 

Silver Member
Username: Chitown

Post Number: 158
Registered: Apr-05
Rick my comments certainly was not meant as harrassment, or even heavy handed. One thing I have learned on this site is not to give or take offense, but tone is very important to me and I apologize if my tone was not to your liking.

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