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NAD 753 / 763

 

Bronze Member
Username: Blazer

Post Number: 16
Registered: Feb-04
Quick question for you NAD fans out there. Other than price, HDCD decoding, RS232, and more power, are there any performance differences with these 2 models?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Heff

Post Number: 93
Registered: Dec-03
The NAD T773 is offers more power and flexibility than the older T753 model. In addition to what you mentioned, it also offers 3 x 12V Trigger outputs, and amplifier input for 7 Power Amps.

Here is their feature list side by side.

T753T773
6 x 70W Simultaneous Minimum Continuous Power into 4 / 8 ohms 7 x 110W Minimum Continuous Power into 4 / 8 ohms, all channels driven simultaneously
150W, 200W, 225W IHF Dynamic Power into 8, 4 and 2 ohms, respectively 230W, 320W, 390W IHF Dynamic Power into 8, 4 & 2 ohms, respectively
PowerDrive PowerDrive
Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital EX, ProLogic II, DTS, DTS ES, DTS NEO:6, Matrix 7.1, EARS and Enhanced Stereo Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital EX, ProLogic II, DTS, DTS ES, DTS NEO:6, Matrix 7.1, EARS and Stereo Enhanced Surround Modes
5 A/V Custom Presets store unique speaker level and tone control settings 5 A/V Custom Presets Store Unique Settings
Direct access speaker level adjustment for surround, center and subwoofer Direct access speaker level adjustment for surround, center and subwoofer
NAD Soft Clipping NAD Soft Clipping
6 A/V Inputs all S-Video and Composite, 2 Full Tape Loops 6 A/V Inputs all S-Video and Composite, full tape loops
Component Video, 2 Inputs and 1 Output, HDTV Compatible Component Video on 3 Inputs and 1 Output
1 Audio Tape Input and Output 3 Audio Inputs, 1 tape loop
6 Digital Inputs, 4 Coaxial, 2 TOS Link freely assignable 6 Digital Inputs, 4 Coaxial, 2 TOS Link freely assignable
2 Digital Outputs, 1 Coaxial, 1 TOS Link 2 Digital Outputs, 1 Coaxial, 1 TOS Link
7.1 Analogue Input (for DVD-Audio) 7.1 Analogue Input (for DVD Audio)
Speaker A + B switching (Speakers B stereo only) Speaker A + B switching (Speakers stereo only)
Multi-Source 2nd zone audio pre-out with independent source and volume Multi-Source 2nd zone A/V pre-out with independent source and volume
ZR-2 Second Zone Remote included, discrete codes for independent zone ZR-2 second Zone remote included discrete codes for independent zone
2 x IR Outputs, IR Input, 2 x IR Ouputs, IR Input
2 x 12V Trigger Outputs, 12V Trigger Input 3 x 12V Trigger Outputs, 12V Trigger Input
Preamp Outputs for all 7.1 channels (2 Subwoofers) Preamp Outputs for all 7.1 channels (2 Subwoofers)
Amplifier Input for 6 Power Amps Amplifier Input for 7 Power Amps
RDS FM/AM Tuner with 30 direct access presets RDS FM/AM Tuner with 30 direct access presets
HTR-2 - 8 Device Illuminated Learning Remote with Macro function HTR-2 Remote Control
Stereo Bypass RS-232 Port interface for advanced control systems and software upgrade
IEC Detachable Power Cable High Current Holmgren Toroidal Power Transformer
  HDCD

For more information, check out NAD's website.
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawk

Highlands Ranch, CO USA

Post Number: 403
Registered: Dec-03
Blazer:

I am a bit confused by Heff's response--I thought you were comparing the current 753 with the current 763 (the 763 actually coming out about two months earlier than the 753).

If I am correct, the only other major differences that you did not list are that the 763 has three component video inputs instead of two and it has a very high quality Holmgren brand torodial power supply. This power supply is much more efficient and powerful than used by almost any other brand of receiver. Otherwise, the 753 is very close to the 763 in terms of features and build.

I hope this helps
 

Bronze Member
Username: Heff

Post Number: 95
Registered: Dec-03
whoops i listed the 773 by mistake. my bad.

here's the T763

6 x 100W Simultaneous Minimum Continuous Power into 4 / 8 ohms
210W, 300W, 370W IHF Dynamic Power into 8, 4 and 2 ohms, respectively
PowerDrive
High Current Holmgren Toroidal Power Transformer
Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital EX, ProLogic II, DTS, DTS ES, DTS NEO:6, Matrix 7.1, EARS and Enhanced Stereo
HDCD
Stereo Bypass
5 A/V Custom Presets store unique speaker level and tone control settings
Direct access speaker level adjustment for surround, center and subwoofer
6 A/V Inputs all S-Video and Composite, 2 full tape loops
Component Video, 3 Inputs and 1 Output, HDTV Compatible
3 Audio Inputs, 1 Tape Loop
6 Digital Inputs, 4 Coaxial, 2 TOS Link freely assignable
2 Digital Outputs, 1 Coaxial, 1 TOS Link
7.1 Analogue Input (for DVD-Audio)
Speaker A + B switching (Speakers B stereo only)
Multi-Source 2nd zone A/V pre-out with independent source and volume
ZR-2 Second Zone Remote included, discrete codes for independent zone
2 x IR Outputs, One IR input
RS-232 port interface for advanced control systems
3 x 12V Trigger Outputs, 12V Trigger Input
IEC Detachable Power Cable
Preamp Outputs for all 7.1 channels (2 Subwoofers)
Amplifier Input for 6 Power Amps
DS FM/AM Tuner with 30 direct access presets
NAD Soft Clipping
HTR-2 - 8 Device Illuminated Learning Remote with Macro function
 

Bronze Member
Username: Blazer

Post Number: 17
Registered: Feb-04
Thanks guys! What's the real life advantage of the Holmgren brand torodial power supply? An example would help. I'm sorry for asking so many questions, but I think I've become addicted to learning about audio equipment. Perhaps I should go back to grad school and look into an electrical engineering degree. Not. Aslo, does the firmware make much of a difference in these new receivers (as far as problems go)?. v1.25 vs v1.26? I saw the survey on another thread but was still curious.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Blazer

Post Number: 18
Registered: Feb-04
Thanks guys! What's the real life advantage of the Holmgren brand torodial power supply? An example would help. I'm sorry for asking so many questions, but I think I've become addicted to learning about audio equipment. Perhaps I should go back to grad school and look into an electrical engineering degree. Not.
Aslo, does the firmware make much of a difference in these new receivers (as far as problems go)?. v1.25 vs v1.26? I saw the survey on another thread but was still curious.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 315
Registered: Dec-03
They all have toroidal power transformers. Good ones. "Holmgren" is a brand, not a design, I think.
 

New member
Username: Gatt767

Malta

Post Number: 3
Registered: Feb-04
The T753 is not installed with a toroidal power supply, but with a normal transformer
 

New member
Username: Hab

Post Number: 7
Registered: Feb-04
I just hooked up a new 753, which replaced a new 752 that was giving me hum/squeel when the sub was connected to it. Both were new, right out of the box & I have the same problem with the 753 . Would the 763 solve this annoying problem do you think? Could it possibly be the power supply...normal & not toroidal? I have heard many compalints of hum/hiss etc with the 752/753 here on this bulletin board, but none with the 763. What do you all think?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Blazer

Post Number: 20
Registered: Feb-04
I've read on here about similar problems with with the 763 also. I'm concluding that NAD was in a class of their own when producing seperates, but may have bitten off more than they can chew in prodiuction of their suround receivers. Just theorizing.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jonmoon

Post Number: 11
Registered: Dec-03
Blazer, instead of believing everything you read, just go check the NAD receivers out. There are plenty of posters here who don't have any problems with the NADs including me (T763). I am one who believes that many of the these so-called hum/buzz problems are due to things like wires, grounding or speakers.
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawk

Highlands Ranch, CO USA

Post Number: 411
Registered: Dec-03
Paul:

I don't think it is the receiver that is causing the problem. It sounds like it is either a grounding problem or a poor connection. Don't forget, the sub has its own amp. If you are only getting the hum/squeel when you connect the sub to the receiver, that suggests a poor connection, which may be either the sub cable is poorly seated or you have a problem cable. So start by making sure the sub cable is properly seated at both ends (many sub cable ends are slightly oversized and it takes real effort to get the properly seated). If they are fully seated, try another sub cable to see if the problem persists.

If it does, then you may have a grounding problem in you house wiring. I have had some success solving this same problem for a friend using a Monster Cable MP-SW200 power connector. This is a two outlet surge suppressor which also has power filtering and is meant specifically for subwoofers and has a ground status indicator that can alert you to problems in your wiring. You can usually find it for about $30-35.

Good luck!
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 316
Registered: Dec-03
Paul,

I agree with Hawk. The sub cable is the prime suspect. I know from experience a 10 m/30 ft sub cable can act as an antenna for interference. Some domestic electrical applicances have almost no screening. Try a shorter, or better, cable. Also try to keep the cable away from power cables to other devices. My source was an up-light with a foot-controlled rheostat (dimmer).

Does the hum go away as soon as you disconnect the sub? It could be the sub itself generating the hum.
 

New member
Username: Gatt767

Malta

Post Number: 4
Registered: Feb-04
Paul Reynolds, it seem that the prob is comming from your setup and not the receiver itself, can you try and re arrange your setup? Check out for cables, grounding etc.
 

New member
Username: Hab

Post Number: 8
Registered: Feb-04
I really appreciate all of your comments/suggestions. I WANT to keep this receiver more than anything. It sounds so warm & rich. I have all of my plug-ins grounded, have tried several sub cables both times (one a $50 cable from the Nad dealer) & have made sure the connections were made as well as possible. I have even tried ferrite chokes as suggested here, to no avail. The problem occurs even without the sub in the same room. When I touch any sub cable to the sub in connection on the back of the receiver, even though the other end is connected to nothing, the noise starts.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jonmoon

Post Number: 12
Registered: Dec-03
I don't understand, Paul. Why would you be attaching a sub cable to your unit while it is on? You should turn the unit off before attaching cables and not turn it on until the sub is hooked up. I'm pretty sure this is in the manual as well as common practice. If I change any cables, my unit is off. If I change inputs, my unit is volumed down.
 

New member
Username: Hab

Post Number: 9
Registered: Feb-04
I never said that I attach any cables while the unit is on, and I never do. My point is, whenever the sub cable is inserted into the sub out on the receiver and I turn on the receiver I get this hum/squeel. At no other time do I have this problem, only when any sub cable is inserted into the sub out on the receiver, whether the other end of the sub cable is connected to the sub or not.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 317
Registered: Dec-03
It sounds very much as if the sub cable is working as an antenna. I suggest trying it with other electrical items nearby switched off and disconnected, one by one.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Airforceone

Post Number: 15
Registered: Feb-04
If you don't want to hear ANY humming or buzzing get a NAD T 973 Power amp and a different brand pre/pro. The NAD T 973 is SILENT in my setup after my dealer, NAD and people here said it was my setup causing the humming and buzzing. I now have a SILENT setup during quiet scenes. The ONLY sounds I hear are encoded on the DVD. PERIOD. Anyone hearing these noises, you ARE NOT going to receive help here. People here will only blame your cables or your setup. Never NAD. THE HUMMING, BUZZING, POPPING,AND GOING INTO PROTECTION PROBLEM LIES WITH NAD SURROUND RECEIVERS NOT WITH YOUR SETUP. AGAIN, I RETURNED THREE 773's AND NOT UNTIL I UPGRADED TO THE NAD T 973 POWER AMP DID THIS CRAP STOP.AGAIN, NO HISS, WHITE NOISE, BUZZ OR HUMM. NONE. PERIOD. EVEN WITH MY EAR PRESSED TO THE SPEAKER.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Dmeister

Post Number: 47
Registered: Dec-03
What are you using for a pre/pro Airforce?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jonmoon

Post Number: 13
Registered: Dec-03
Quote: "When I touch any sub cable to the sub in connection on the back of the receiver, even though the other end is connected to nothing, the noise starts."

That is what made me think you were connecting cables while the unit was on. If I am mistaken, I apologize.
 

New member
Username: Hab

Post Number: 10
Registered: Feb-04
No problem Jonathan. In that particular case I guess I did have my receiver running. But the sub was not plugged in or even connected. What I did was take the sub cable out of the package & did nothing more than move 1 end of it to the sub out on the receiver while the receiver was turned on. The other end of the sub cable was in my other hand & connected to nothing. No matter what i do when this connection is made I cannot get rid of the humm. I've tried everything with 2 different receivers, a 752 & this 753. Used ferrite chokes, disconnected the cable in for TV, plugged it into a many different outlets etc. but always this hum when that particular connection is made & no humm when it isn't.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Hab

Post Number: 11
Registered: Feb-04
AIRFORCE1,

I'm a newbie here but it certainly seems like what you say is accurate. Can you give me some idea on price difference if I go the way you suggest & tell me basically what my set-up would be (pre/pro?). Thanks.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 318
Registered: Dec-03
Paul,

From what you describe, I think your receiver has the same problem described by "Anonymous", Feb 17, on the thread NAD T753 audio hum with DD, but not DTS, EXT7.1, or 2ch Stereo. Have a look at the thread. Others seemed to have the same problem. If I am correct, the good news it can be fixed, easily, and NAD will certainly do it. Your dealer may not know this. I quote the message here in full.

Well, I have an update from NAD on my reported humm problam (my past post was Sunday Feb 8, 2004 - 12:57 am). Apologies to those interested for the delay - I was on travel all last week. I've found NAD quite responsive in pursuing this matter. They responded back to my dealer rep w/ a diagnosis and solution by Feb 11. They noted that the problem didn't happen with all receivers but a small minority. To quote NAD, "We have been able to duplicate in the Lab the elevated noise levels on only a few of the T753 samples. This condition seems to be a variable based on the vagaries of the Cirrus Logic Processor and an external causative effect from radiated power supply contamination and other environmental contributors. We Believe, this issue will only affect a small minority of the T753's but, as a preventative measure, NAD has upgraded in production all current T 753's to include a power supply cap that in essence further isolates the processing board from the power supply." I hope to take mine in sometime this week for the modification. More to come

DSPs are inherently sensitive to induced hum. The reason the 973 power amp doesn't hum is that it does not have a DSP. My bet is, get a 973 connected the pre-amp/processor of your T753, and the hum will still be there. Your unit probably just need the upgraded power capacitor. Your domestic environment plus the sub-cable "antenna" is giving the processor a line feed it cannot ignore.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 319
Registered: Dec-03
AIRFORCEONE,

Great to read your forthright posts again. I wish to help, and indeed the fault is with NAD, in my opinion. However, the question for an owner is what to do about the problem. All we can do here is suggest things. I suggest (and hope) NAd development has a nice, clean, power supply, and did not anticipate this problem. No excuses. Just a possible real-life scenario.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Airforceone

Post Number: 16
Registered: Feb-04
Dmeister, I'm using a very old Teac stereo pre amp for now until I can afford a B&K Ref50. This COULD be the cause of my anger toward NAD, since I've had to do without surround sound until I can afford more. I originally thought I had the money to get killer surround sound(T773). The money spent on the 773 PLUS another 200 went entirely into the 973 amp. I tested a friends Ref50 with my setup and it was dead quiet except for a clicking when changing volumes(not a problem). The 973 amp is so quiet I don't believe you can find a pre/pro as quiet. One thing I failed to mention was that the fans on the 973 are in fact as loud as a mother!! I'm not concerned with this as I'm going to stash it in a closet when I get things together, but they are loud, and they don't even need speakers connected to kick on after ten minutes or so.

Paul, I didn't mean to disparage everyone here giving advice it's just that it always seems when someone posts with a problem NAD receiver the standard answer is "it's your setup" or "it's you cable". I went through this. I'm not saying it IS your receiver it's just that if your previous receiver didn't cause this then it's probably not your setup. About the price difference. There is one and it may be hard to take. It has been for me anyway. My problem was when I bought the original 773 my dealer let me know the only way out of the deal was a 400 dollar re-stocking fee. So after 2 773's it was either go for a third, pay the 400 restock fee and walk, or spend another 200 on the amp. I opted for the last option because 1. I want to have a good relationship with this dealer(only fujitsu dealer in town)2. I hated to lose 400 bucks! So now I'm stuck listening to stereo until I can afford a multi-channel pre/pro. If you've got the money I'd highly recommend the T 973 power amp. I believe it's what NAD does well. It's a great powerful amp at a pretty decent price when compared to other power amps of comparable power. Unfortunately, they've scared me away from their 163 pre/pro. Based on this amp so far, I'll buy NAD amps in the future.

John A, Your right. All you can really do is give suggestions. You have helped me in the past, and given your time for which I'm very appreciative. I'll also admit that you are one of the few who have a zero tolerance for humm/buzz even when it's a NAD doing it. So I do think your opinion and help are needed here. Heck, I always read your posts.

To all,
I hate to sound like a broken record, but again I was told by my dealer(relationship almost went bad here)that the humming and buzzing I was hearing was normal. Had I not said "I'm not tolerating it even if it IS normal", I'd still have a receiver I couldn't listen to. The 973 proved to me that it wasn't my setup but was in fact the T 773 receiver making the offending sounds(humm/buzz/hiss)
Maybe this is the sacrifice NAD has made for an all in one unit. Who knows.

One other thing, the Ref50 pre/pro is by no means free from problems. Lucky for me it's been out for a year and a half and has had it's problems dealt with through firmware. Many of the problems reported with the NAD receivers also happened in the Ref50. It could very well be a firmware fix that will solve the problems in the NAD units as well. If NAD had said so, I'd have kept the 773 all along and just waited for a fix.





 

Bronze Member
Username: Airforceone

Post Number: 17
Registered: Feb-04
If you guys REALLY want to know why I'm ticked off at NAD, I'll tell ya. I've got my figgin girlfriend on my ARRSE over the fact that I spent two grand, and all I have to show for it is a 68 pound box, that needs another 2000 dollar box to work right. Very hard to explain to a woman.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Airforceone

Post Number: 18
Registered: Feb-04
Paul, I don't think I answered you question clearly so here goes: The price difference will be quite a bit. I don't know what you payed for the 763 but the T 973 was $2000 before a discount of 10%. Plus you'll have to add even more for the pre/pro. If you happen to have an old receiver with amp pre-outs you'll be in luck and can just use that as a pre/pro. I didn't get this lucky as my old receiver doesn't have amp outs. I went to the local pawnshop and bought an old Teac stereo with amp pre-outs to get me by until I can afford a multi-channel pre/pro. You have many options as far as pre/pro's go. A lot of modestly priced receivers come with amp pre outs and will work well as pre/pro's. If I can't wait until I have the money for the B&K this might be the route I'll go. I may have been a bit quick to say "go get the 973" since it is a whole other process to go through. My personal experience led me to suggest this since my money was tied up in the T 773 deal anyway. Your situation may be different. My main issue was to let you know that you don't have to live with strange noises if your sure it isn't your setup. It really sucks when people blame your setup when you KNOW you've eliminated it as a possible cause.

Just as I say this, I expect you to post that you figured out it was your setup causing the problem.:-):-)
 

Bronze Member
Username: Airforceone

Post Number: 19
Registered: Feb-04
Now a question for John A., if your still willing to help me after my outburst. I have a denon 2900 and have been tempted to plug the analog outs into the "ins" on the amp. Besides having no master volume control, what hazards do I face in doing this? I haven't so far as I'm afraid I'll hurt the amp, not to mention the 2900. Is there some kind of voltage factor I'm not considering? Thanks for your time John.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Airforceone

Post Number: 20
Registered: Feb-04
Somebody's got to keep this forum alive while your all asleep.:-)
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 320
Registered: Dec-03
AIRFORCE,

Thanks. I fully understand your anger. In my view you should blast the dealer, and let NAD know the dealer thinks hum is part and parcel of their receiver design.

As for female disbelief, it's when you have a wife with a financial stake it gets really rough!

OK, I see the 2900 is a "Progressive Scan DVD-Audio/Video Super Audio CD Player".
http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/products.asp?l=1&c=4
It looks like a good match to me. You connect the analogue outs from the player to the analogue inputs in the amp. A pre-amp is essentially a source selector and a volume control: it does no real amplification, or not much. I see the 2900 has "adjustable channel levels". Maybe it has a volume control for all channels?

There are some data sheets etc on that link.

That's the best I can do for the moment, have to leave for work. I was sleeping through your previous posts because it was middle of night here....

All the best.
 

New member
Username: Seamus

Post Number: 10
Registered: Feb-04
Along similar lines, in a set-up using a pre and power amp of different makes, which one affects the sound to a greater extent ? If I hook up a power amp to a NAD receiver to drive only the front 2 speakers, will I still get the "NAD" sound ?
Sorry if it sounds really elementary...
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 321
Registered: Dec-03
Seamus,

Pre-amps are neutral, or should be. The matching of the power amp with the speakers is probably the most inportant thing. I used an NAD stereo pre-amp with a Sony power amp for some years, and still have that combo for "the next room"
 

Bronze Member
Username: Airforceone

Post Number: 21
Registered: Feb-04
Thanks John.

It does have channel levels but I'm not sure how these are going to work unless I actually try it.
So your saying you don't see any risk in trying it? The only thing that worries me is maybe the 2900 wasn't designed to be used as a pre/pro and somehow voltage might be an issue betwen the 2900 and the amp. What I mean is that maybe the signal coming into the amp needs to be in a "voltage window" to be acceptable. Make any sense to you?
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 322
Registered: Dec-03
AIRFORCE,

Yes, it makes sense. Personally, I would try it. Carefully. You can also look first at the output spec for the Denon and the input spec for the NAD. Look at the figures in V for example "up to 2V". Most things are designed to be able to connect to most other things these days - at "line" level, which is what we are talking about. I know I can connect a CD player straight into the input of my Sony power amp. What I lose is being able to switch sources easily. That is what a pre-amp gives you, plus volume, and tone controls. And, with surround sound, the signal processor for 5.1 or whatever is in the pre-amp stage, too.

In previous years you could have overloaded a phono input (say 0.5 V max) with the signal from a CD player (say 2 V). But the damage would be audible distortion. There would only be damage to the equipment if you ignored that, and left it running that way for some time. Just switch off the source if it sounds bad.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Airforceone

Post Number: 22
Registered: Feb-04
John,

I went ahead and gave it a try and it fried everything.

Just kidding.

Seems to work GREAT, except for the lack of master volume and tone controls, among other things. Absolutely no noise floor at all though.

The above was written about an hour before this:

After some playing with the channel levels on the DVD player, and gain controls on the amp, I've found a happy medium. Calibrated as best I can as the 2900 has a known issue with it's test tones. Another known issue with the 2900 is a 10db drop in sub output through the analog outputs, which I'm now having to deal with. More than workable until I can afford a pre/pro though. Thanks again John, I now have surround sound again!!

Anyone thinking of doing this, be warned, having to control the volume this way REALLY BLOWS. Better than nothing I think, but some might disagree after trying it.

Again, thanks for your time John.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 323
Registered: Dec-03
AIRFORCE,

Drat. Another failed attempt at internet audio sabotage.

Just kidding!

Glad it works. The Denon DVD player seems to have plenty of features, which is just as well. The sub must have its own gain control.

You get DTS, Dolby Digital etc OK just from processing in the DVD-player?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Airforceone

Post Number: 23
Registered: Feb-04
John,

Yeah I've tried both DD and DTS and they seem to work fine. Some soundtracks are easier than others using this setup. Lord of the Rings for example is almost impossible because it's LOUD nomatter what I set things at. I can turn the gains on the amp way down, but it seems to kill the sonics as well as lower the volume. The Big Lebowski on the other hand worked great. Basically, if it's a really dynamic soundtrack, it's not worth messing with as eventually you'll screw up and blow a speaker or something. It's kinda hard to get used to "pause" being the only way to mute. I found you can panic quickly and forget how to kill the sound. I also tried Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon SACD and it sounded REALLY good. Yes, my sub has a gain control, without it I couldn't do this, as it needs just as much adjusting as the channel levels and the input gains.

In all reality, I probably won't do this often. Just when I really need a surround fix, because, as I said before, it's really a pain in the butt. It takes a good ten minutes to get all the gains and all the channel levels right. It also must be done all over again everytime you switch movies or CD's.

One funny thing, I keep thinking I can now plug my Playstation 2 into the DVD player so I can play GTA: Vice City and listen to DTS, but then I go Ahhhhh... no inputs!!

Thanks again for your time John, you made me a happy camper again. If you have anymore questions, let me know.
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 327
Registered: Dec-03
AIRFORCE

Great. This is an education. What you need now is a surround pre-amp that does nothing at all to the signal except attenuate it. Minimalist separates have always been out of my price range. I could never afford a pre-amp that did NOT have tone controls. Ah well. One day.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Airforceone

Post Number: 24
Registered: Feb-04
John,

I can't afford anything like that either. What do you mean by attenuate the signal?
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 330
Registered: Dec-03
Decrease its amplitude. That is, turn it down. But that is all - no fancy filtering and so on. 1.0 V -> 0.1 V sort of thing. That is mostly what a volume control does as I understand it.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Airforceone

Post Number: 25
Registered: Feb-04
Oh OK.

Maybe, like you say, someday. I'll be lucky if I can afford a regular pre/pro this year. Besides, I'm not in love with the way the denon sounds compared to what I heard from the 773. Compared to the warm smooth NAD sound, this denon can sound harsh. Thanks again John, have a good weekend.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jonmoon

Post Number: 15
Registered: Dec-03
Would you two get a chat room?
 

Silver Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 332
Registered: Dec-03
Same to you, AF1.
 

Darren
Unregistered guest
AIRFORCEONE:

Just wondering why you aren't considering matching your T973 amp with the NAD T163 pre-pro (when funds permit)? Did you get a chance to listen to the two together? If so did you still hear the humming issue out of the separates? I was under the impression that only the NAD receivers had the humm problem and that the T163/T973 combo didn't have the issue.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Airforceone

Post Number: 26
Registered: Feb-04
Darren,

I've done some serious reading and researching since this all started. I read a review of the T 973 amp at AVS, and in that review it was stated that the amp was very quiet. In fact, the reviewer mentioned the unit's lack of noise several times. So I said to myself, if I can get that amp, and, it is quiet, I'll have half of a quiet, nice sounding system. So I got the amp. I'm still in the process of researching just the right pre/pro to go with this amp as I'm NOT going to pair it with anything that has a loud noise floor. That would just defeat the purpose of getting the quiet amp. The guy at AVS who reviewed the amp received the 163 pre/pro about a week later. He had been using his old 762 as a pre/pro. When he hooked up the 163 he found that the noise floor on the 163 was LOUDER than the 762!! Well, that doesn't sound good. How could a 762 receiver be quieter than a pre/pro?? So, since he was right on the money about the amp, I figure I'll steer clear of the 163 pre/pro. I'm just afraid the processor in the 163 is basically the same as the one in the 773 and I don't need that hassle. I know it might sound stupid to some to worry so much about the noise floor, but I can't judge the way anything sounds until I get a LOW noise floor to start with. Plus, at 1500 msrp,you can get some pretty cool pre/pro's for just a little more money. If I could REALLY do what I want to do, I'd get the NAD S-series pre/pro. I'll bet that sucker sounds great, AND has a low noise floor. At about 3000 dollars(maybe a little more), it's out of my price range. So, I keep researching until I have the money for the purchase. Hope I answered your question. Let me know. Later Darren.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Airforceone

Post Number: 27
Registered: Feb-04
Darren,

Since I'm months away from being able to afford the pre/pro anyway, this opinion I have about the 163 isn't set in stone. By the end of summer the price might have dropped a little, and a few more reviews might come in to change my mind. If you do give the 163 a shot come back and give a review of it. That's my biggest problem, my dealer doesn't have anything but the 763 and the S-series stuff available to listen too. I'll be darned if I'm going to end up in this re-stock fee crap again. That's why I'm leaning B&K ref50 pre/pro. I've at least been able to hear it in my setup.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Airforceone

Post Number: 28
Registered: Feb-04
Oh and BTW, The B&K ref50 was originaly 3500 msrp.
It is now 2000 msrp before 10% off!! This is hard to pass up. Ordinarily, a guy like me couldn't even look at something like the ref50 but this price drop has made it possible. And yes, B&K is about ready to release their new pre/pro but it will be back up to 3500 dollars or so. The ref50 has been out a year and a half and all production problems have been dealt with through firmware, according to owners I've spoken to, and reviews I've read.
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