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Do A/V Receivers improve with running-in?

 

New member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 8
Registered: 02-2004
We've had our Marantz SR7300 for 2 months now. For a good solid listening level, we would set volume for HT and stereo at about -7 (our room is approx 22 X 24 ft with high ceilings).

The only change I have made was to set the speaker levels at +2db and that instantly made about a 2db difference but I have now noticed we are getting similar volumes at around -15db.

I know speakers tend to open up after running-in time - does this apply to receivers and amps also? Or is there another explanation? We've had amps and an amp with a 3 channel processor before but haven't noticed this.
 

modder
Unregistered guest
It does help. To speed up the process, you could use one of those run-in CDs like XLO CD burner.

Solid state electronics also needs running-in. This is an explaination behind this but I won't post for the explaination is too long.
 

myyrrantz
Unregistered guest
Thanx modder!
 

Silver Member
Username: Gman

Post Number: 239
Registered: 12-2003
I can see how some speakers that have drivers that the manufacturer hasn't played and tested may need some breaking in. But there is nothing that moves in a receiver--unless it is broken :-)

Electrons and electronic parts that don't move don't need to be broken in. A DAC, a circuit, or anything else inside a receiver do not improve with age.

This is an urban legend type thing that has probably been perpetrated by sellers or re-sellers of equipment to dissatisfied customers to tell them that once the component is broken in it will sound better.

An amp, a reciever, or a pre-amp is like a computer. They almost are computers at this point anyway. They perform as well as they ever will when you get them. And with dust and heat deteriorate with time.

 

Silver Member
Username: Elitefan1

Post Number: 245
Registered: 12-2003
Gregory,
You are absolutely correct.Amps/receivers can only get old and die. There is no magic "break-in" period. Heat and dirt and moisture[spilled Cokeetc!] are real killers.
 

New member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 4
Registered: 02-2004
Thankx Gman and Elitefan,

I did not not really think so - yet I'm not sure why I don't have to increase the volume as much.

Maybe my ears just improved!
 

modder
Unregistered guest
Gman and Elitefan, you are wrong. Electronics do need to run in. It also needs to warm up to sound at its best. You will realise that the volume increases after you use the amp for sometime compare to the when its just switch on. Circuits do need to warm up.

This does not applies to only amps, CD players give even more noticeable effects before and after break-in.

Breaking-in of electronic components isn't an urban legend or myth. Its a fact and there are scientific explainations (I am not joking cause I did study them before in the university). Try reading up on how electrons flow thru semiconductors.
 

Silver Member
Username: Elitefan1

Post Number: 248
Registered: 12-2003
My receivers volume does not increase after time. No amp or receiever I have ever owned has done this. If anything it seems just the opposite but that's probably just because my ears are used to that volume. My receiever sounds just the same in it's first 5 minute as it does 5 hours later. I don't know what you studied but whatever it was doesn't jibe with my experience.
 

New member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 4
Registered: 02-2004
I've always wondered about this. When I bought my amp a few years ago, the manufacturer recommended a 100-hour burn-in period. I didn't hear an audible difference during and after the burn-in period.

If electronic equipment benefits from a burn-in period, does that mean picture quality should improve on a tv or a dvd player after the burn-in period? But rarely do you hear about burn-in of video equipment. Why wouldn't this be true for video equipment if it's true for audio equipment?
 

New member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 6
Registered: 02-2004
I agree with modder that sound improves after equipment had been on for about 20 - 30 mins. I noticed this even when I was using an integrated amp. I'm not sure how to explain the difference - just slightly more dynamic or complete.
 

Anonymous
 
Come on Modder, enlighten us with your brilliant university education. Explain EVERYTHING you've learned about break-in. BTW, at the university you went to, did they teach you how to spell realize the way you did? Try using a z next time you numbnut.
 

Anonymous
 
jeez, I just read modders post and he spelled more than the word realize wrong. Let me know where you went to university so I can keep my kids AWAY!!
 

New member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 9
Registered: 02-2004
Anonymous,

People offer advice and opinions on this forum and people like me can either accept or not accept what they say. I for one thank them for their time and for passing on their knowledge.

Most seem like decent and intelligent people. But, I wonder what attracts people like you to this forum. I suppose you've just got nothing better to do!

BTW: Realise is usually spelt with a 'z' in America. Elsewhere it's 's'. So either is really acceptable.
 

Silver Member
Username: Gman

Post Number: 247
Registered: 12-2003
Regarding burn-in, a Capacitor will "form" in a matter of seconds after you power on. "Bias" will stabilize in minutes--and on well-designed equipment it shouldn't be an issue to begin with.

If any amplifier, cd player, receiver, or pre-amp sounds or performs any different from its first hour and its thousandth hour, there is something wrong with the design or the construction.

 

Bronze Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 11
Registered: 02-2004
So fars the no's seem have it, but I'm really none the wiser. I believe I could hear a slight improvement listening to cd's after about half an hour - maybe that's the bourbon connection - but I did read in some audiophile magazine where some expert suggested leaving all equipment fully on all the time for a better sound - I wish I could lay my hands on the article.
 

modder
Unregistered guest
A huge debate forming about amps breaking-in? What a joke? Just take it or leave. Don't have to debate on it. FYI, resistance, capacitance and inductance are affected by one thing called heat. Capacitance of capacitors changes with temperature. Resistors also changes with heat. Literally all components change their properties as the amp heats up. Thus it affects sound.

As for semiconductors, its resistance lowers with increasing temperature. There is also the electromagnetic migration. There is also the reaction of oxides (esp. MOSFET) with temp change and current flowing thru the amp.

There is also magnetic field generated by DC circuits.

I would say if you folks don't know how electronic circuits and its components work, just SHUT UP.
 

Silver Member
Username: Geekboy

Newport, RI United States

Post Number: 228
Registered: Dec-03
Modder: but your explaining thing that affects the circuits at startup, not over time. Some components will work better -- or worse -- when they get to their normal operating temperature. This should be measured in minutes -- if anything -- not hours.

Now I'll probably agree that their is "some" burn-in when the electronics get power (and heat) for the first time, but most manufacturers would have done a "burn-in" test at the factory. Noting that the burn-in test is to detect defects not to make it sound better. I would say that -- unless it's a tube amplifier -- that a reciever/amp that takes hours to "warm" up each time you use it... has something wrong with it. :-)

Essentially, solid-state electronics -- with good components with good tolerances -- should perform with minimal "run-in" and certainly be up to operating temperature within seconds -- if not minutes -- of power up. That's why we switched AWAY from tubes. :-) (Although some still like them.)


So I agree and disagree with Modder. I agree that there is a burn-in (a QA process) that's done by the manufacturer to cure the components... and to expose circuit flaws... but once you get your equipment, this should have already been done for you. Of course my caveat is the assumption that all manufacturers in the mid-fi range (Onkyo, Pioneer Elite, Harman Kardon, Rotel, Denon, Sony, Yamaha, etc.) perform this burn-in before it leaves the factory. :-) One could only wish.
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