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Archive through March 09, 2005

 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1479
Registered: Aug-04
Rick

"Why would we want our tubes tied?"

Because there are too many tubes in the world as it is! Haven't y'all heard of 'Global Warming'?

 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 120
Registered: Jan-05
Presenting.......

My Spendor and Monitor Audio setup!


Upload
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 485
Registered: Feb-04
SM,

It looks like the poor Spendors have been placed in their coffins for burial. May they rest in peace.
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 486
Registered: Feb-04
Solid state amps = acrylic paintings with bright colorful sheen

Tube amps = oil paintings with deep, rich colors, but perhaps duller on the surface

Some people prefer acrylic paintings. Imagine that.
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 899
Registered: Dec-03
Rantz,

"It's not a mine is bigger sort of thing"


But SM's are definitely bigger than mine! OH!, so now size does matter again? LOL!
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 720
Registered: Oct-04
Sigh:
Mine are smaller.

Mine are weaker.

Mine are cheaper.

Mine are less important.

Mine are minimal.

Mine are just fine, thank y'all very much.

More anon. . .
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1480
Registered: Aug-04
Rick,

"OH!, so now size does matter again?"

Or is it more to do with placement? LOL!


Larry - "mine are cheaper" See what happens when you scrimp? Smaller, weaker, minimal and less important. And you think that's just fine?

 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest
Size might matter; like I said, look at those woofers - they're huge! Now, everybody with a speaker they think is just terrific - how many of you have speakers with a hole in them? Quads - no. Maggies - no.

For the record John knows I have always considered the Quads to be the best speaker put on the face of the Earth. Peter Walker was a genius. John and I have discussed why I don't own a pair even though I sold the Quads for many years and had the option to buy a used pair at a very good price. I would say my contribution to John's decision was to suggest going the used route. He had been contemplating a pair of Quads for years (as have many people who have heard the Quad set up properly) but was a bit put off by the fact the company is now owned by a foreign "overlord" (read Chinese). I suggested he screw the new owners and buy a used pair as the difference between new and used is minimal. Keep the money as much in the English system as possible. It is a philosophy I would recommend to anyone looking to purchase a product that could send money off shore. No jingoism involved, I just think it's better that way. Support the countries that have been doing it correctly for the last fifty years or so. By old Mac and old Quad.

Though my LS3/5a's were actually manufactured by Rogers, the distinction between Spendor and Rogers or Harbeth is minimal to most people in the scheme of the 3/5a's. They were all produced to a standard that insures any 3/5a can be substituted with another 3/5a of any make or time of manufacture and they will not suffer as a pair. In terms of the ability of the little shoe boxes to convey a soundstage as convincing as the Maggies - hearing is believing. I will admit many small speakers do sound small. A very aggravating behaviour of making a vocalist sound as if they were three feet tall and an entire orchestra is no more than a squished down ensemble. There are, however, the exceptions to the rule. The 3/5a's and Rick's Spendors operate much like John's Quads - as an apparent point source. The Magnepans on the other hand operate mostly as a line source. I've sold and heard enough Magneplanars to know what you are hearing and I congratulate you on opening up an entirely different and much more interesting world of listening over your previous choices. The MMG's are excellent speakers in most every respect and there is little to be gained by going up to the next step in the line. I was a bit suprised by your disappointing results with the Spendor 12 gauge shotguns. All the reviews would have led me to believe they would have made a much better showing than you reported. That goes to show how much you can believe reviews; there is a lot that goes into understanding what a writer says other than just reading the superlatives about a product.

The offense that reqiures this shoot out is John's highly insensitive remarks about "small speakers" and the "lack of proper set up". That he should insult another speaker from the British realm is unthinkable. Even us Texans don't stand for that. My 3/5a's took offense immediately amd pulled their 4 1/2" woofer cones up to the challenge. With a burst of piano glissandi they voiced their displeasure. With a forte from Starker's cello they demonstrated their forte and were prepared to inflict peine forte et dure upon all comers.

Now, I'm not sure why you would think a 3/4" tweeter cannot produce the amount of detail produced by a four foot tall panel of Mylar. But in terms of stage width and depth, there are many people who just can't see how a speaker 1 1/2" deep can do much either. They are wrong also, aren't they? (Put one of the grin things here.)




 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 900
Registered: Dec-03
Placement gets my vote!
 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 121
Registered: Jan-05
JohnA,

Please, for Eric's sake! Show a little sensitivity towards those little weinie speakers! :-)
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

"Most people with tubes have 'em tied by your age, Jan!"

"Why would we want our tubes tied? Jan, did you neglect to tell me something?"

Don't worry, Rick. By the time people get to "our" age, they don't remember what tubes get tied.




 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest


"Most people with tubes have 'em tied by your age, Jan!"

"Why would we want our tubes tied? Jan, did you neglect to tell me something?"

Don't worry, Rick. By the time people get to "our" age, they don't remember what tubes get tied. Or why.





 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

" ... little weinie speakers!"


GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Try little tiny speaker with the great big soundstage.

(They also don't remember how many times they hit the button.)

 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1481
Registered: Aug-04
The new, the wonderful, the superb, big sounding little speakers in their new home (and for you Larry).


Upload

BTW - The human voice needs a hole to let sound escape clearly - so to do speakers. Heh,heh!

 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 122
Registered: Jan-05
Nice, MR! Do you have to reposition the 602's for dining listening?
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 901
Registered: Dec-03
.........insult the BBC.





INFIDELS!
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Yeah, that's the ticket. INFIDELS!!!


 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 123
Registered: Jan-05
Jan,

I don't know if the shotgun box reviews are overly enthusiastic hyperbole or just plain wrong. it is not easy to define what the problem is. They didn't sound bad per se. But, they didn't move me. There were moments when I thought they were growing on me. But, those moments weren't often enough. There literally were consecutive days that went by in which I didn't listen to them at all. Some of that was due to a busy schedule and travel. But, there were a few days when I would listen to the NAD/B&W combo in my office while the Spendors sat in the living room. The maggies have been living with me for 10 days and I have not missed a single day of listening to them for at least an hour. My guess is that I've had about 50 hours of listening time with them since I got them.

The shotgun boxes certainly sounded smaller than I expected and, without a doubt had a boxiness to them. At least that was my perception.

Who knows, maybe I'll give the S3/5 a chance to move the B&W's out of the office system. Except I did something I said earlier today I wouldn't be doing. Let's see, at Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 06:39 pm: I said:

As I mentioned to Larry, I'm not making any more audio purchases (except speaker wire) until I've sold off some of my excess inventory. lol

But, 3 hours later I think I may have bought another piece of equipment. Made an offer on a Mac tuner that's within driving distance. If it is still available, I'll pick it up next weekend. I have good intentions when I make these declarations, you know.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1482
Registered: Aug-04
SM,

No, thank Eric. You might see in the top left photo how the main speaker is very close to the end of the dining table. The 602's are at the opposite end and although the dining table isn't in the sweet spot it is still far better to hear quality sounding music at comfortable levels while socialising, eating, and other dining table events.

BTW - I'd love your timber floors in this area - you've no idea the trouble I had levelling the stands by adjusting the spikes on the uneven slate - if the stand doesn't go back precisely in the same spot, its start all over again.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 721
Registered: Oct-04
My Rantz: Thanks for the pix! Looks like you've got sound-Nirvana, for sure! Yep.

And for me - yes, smaller - just fine! Mer and I had an "epiphanic" evening - the FM had on some wonderful pipe organ music, then Robert Schumann's absolutely devine conzertstuck for 4 horns - we sat there simply mesmerized!

Mer is now a certified "bass freak." Sigh. She LOVES that Mordaunt-Short - and INSISTS that I turn it up just a bit past "balanced." OK - so the lows are a bit high and the highs are a bit low - well, dat's life with WAF. Doncha know. . .

Anyway - all the speakers are broken in now, and the living room is awash in marvelous sound. Can't wait for return of the Yammie - I've ordered some new CDS - including the Grammy-winning Berlioz Requiem. THAT should knock the socks off the neighbors! SACD - Atlanta - great soloist and group performers - can't wait!!!

Had quite a laugh tonight - Mer insisting that I "boost" the sub whilst listening to an organ performance on FM. Sooooo - I turned it up. A few minutes later there was a "thud" as Mer's wine glass vibrated off the table and onto the floor. Fortunately, the li'l woman had finished the wine, and all I had to worry about was picking up the glass, wiping up a few drops of (fortunately) white wine and taking same out to the kitchen. Close call - she'd had red wine earlier in the day. She thought it very cool that "her" sub had knocked the wine glass to the floor. Sigh. OK...

Calling it quits for the night. G-nite all. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 124
Registered: Jan-05
MR,

Yes, I see where the dining table is now. So, is that your SACD/DVD-A collection in the hutch behind the JBL speaker?

Speaking of CD's, I hit a 3 home runs today. Picked up the aforementioned 'B i t c h e s Brew' (splurged for the Complete Sessions version) along with new releases from Jack Johnson and Josh Rouse and love all three of them. The Jack Johnson is his best yet. Now, let's see how that HD cable I picked up today works out. Will give it a go tomorrow. Hey, I might even try to get the hum out of the sub, too. I think it is feeling a little ignored lately.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2278
Registered: Dec-03
What are you people doing in here?

My email is spamming like nobody's buisness!

Allright we all have great speakers, groovy!
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Go listen to um!
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P.S. Jan I have speakers with and without holes!
I believe they are male and female speakers, and I do not think any less of them!
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1483
Registered: Aug-04
SM,

That's the CD collection in the hutch behind the JBL, the DVD-A and SACD collection is in the enclosed section below (obscured from view) and in the corner bookcase behind the 602 is our movie and music DVD library. In the unit behind the sofa is our literary library, though small it seems, we trade regularly with a second hand bookshop, though with our music and movies, we seem to read less and less - or we fall asleep trying.

Good music selection you picked up there - the Davis recordings should be very interesting - you say trippy - I'll have to have a listen. I have heard and liked Jack Johnson but have no recordings - must listen again. I am yet to hear Jack Rouse.

Enjoy those Maggies Ghia - I know from reputation, like the Spendors and the Quads, they are sweet as they come. My wife says we should try the 602's as mains and I agree, but I have had enough of moving, wiring, adjusting spikes etc for a while. We both love the sound we now have and I intend not to listen to anything that may be better. What I don't know can't hurt me LOL!

 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

SM - Are you doing a tube tuner or solid state? Intentions, like rules, are meant to be broken. You should enjoy your MMG's for a very long time. There are lots of people who have never left the Magnepan fold, just updated when needed. The old Mac and the Magnepans, the Quads and the 3/5a's all show how good hifi can still sound good years after the other companies introduce their new and improved models. Now that you've got the MMG's have you considered going back to surround again? And how's Mr. Dual getting along. The Maggies will really love vinyl. On the HD cable, I used two strands for the + leg and one for the - leg. Depending on the amount of room the connectors allow on the MMG's you can use a smaler gauge cable doubled up (twisted is generally the best route)and use three conductors on each leg. The limiting factor is the connector on the 6200.


Rantz - Why don't you get some small (black plastic pan head screw) washers for your stands? BluTak two of them, on each stand, to the floor at the back side of the stand where the spikes sit. With a small enough washer you can set the spike in the washer and still have it touching the floor. The washers will simply give you a set spot where you can always return the speaker stand. You can usually find these washers at auto supply stores in the trim department. Large, well stocked hardware stores also are likely to have something that will work. With the BluTak they can be repositioned when needed.


 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1484
Registered: Aug-04
Kegger,

While you've been busy braggin' about your tubes and 300b tubes and such we thought we'd all take the opportunity to put down the other old dog's crappy speakers and tell 'em how darn marvellous our own are. We spent the cash so we gotta some milage for it - fer Eric's sake!

LOL!
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1485
Registered: Aug-04
Jan,

Great idea, thanx - much better than drawing circles on the floor with a magic marker.

BTW - if I don't want the holes, B&W supplied foam bungs. See, they are on top of everything! LOL!
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2865
Registered: Dec-03
Good Eric, one has to choose one's words carefully on this thread.

I wrote "I suspect that 5.1 was originally inspired by the desire to get ... directional sound from small speakers under conditions where people do not wish to have a proper stereo set-up... Directional and deep sound "on the cheap" if you like."

By "small" I meant these things the size of beer cans with a lower limit of 120 Hz, rated at up to 25 W, and forming part of a complete "out of the box" 5.1 sound system where the only thing that produces any bass at all is the "massive" 35 W active sub. It works, and these are the things that are selling like there is no tomorrow.

I did not, in any sense, mean LS3/5as, Spendors, B&Ws etc. Least of all LS3/5as. Heaven forbid. So please put those guns away, gentlemen. Or I'll load my Quad ESLs ready for action. This is a threat, not a promise.

MR,

You will not convince me otherwise, but I know you'll keep trying.

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything, and that includes myself. I am just trying to figure out what is going on in the bizarre world of home audio. Things are not as they seem at first sight, that's for sure. What about the DVD-A/SACD vs CD "Dog vs pony" hypothesis?

If the countless posts on the wonders of DVD-A are now to be relegated to the 'Sorry folks, I mighta bin wrong' category, then maybe - just maybe you might do a double take when you hear surround with the Quads.

I do, I do. Double takes all the time. As I said, I am not so sure, any more, where this DVD-A "Wow" factor came from. I did not imagine it. My guess is that a lot of it came from more accurate stereo positioning, where surrounds help out. This is the point I was trying to make to Jan, and our sole remaining point of disagreement, as far as I can see. Whether surround still helps when you have five Quad ESLs instead of two, I have no idea.

Learning means that one discards all or part of what one thought previously. And, yes, it is obvious that one should be prepared to go doing that. So yes, I come out with my hands up. Sorry if I mislead anyone. I might not have done, anyway. I don't know. I will apologize to you, MR, for misleading posts, if I can be sure they were indeed that. But it sounds like you've enjoyed the journey, too!

Ghia,

Thank you for your sturdy defence! Much appreciated. Yes, I too, re-examine my basic assumptions every day before breakfast.

When I first read his comment, I immediately thought of those love tapes between Charles and Camilla.

What, "Eric, I wish I were one of your banana plugs..." sort of thing?

Look, to see what this surround business really has to offer, we all just have to go the Queensland with our respective kit. We could try Quads as mains and Maggies as surrounds, and vice versa. Kegger, Jan, Rick and 2c can supply the tubes. Sony could supply the tinnies, but I would not even drink their beer. Gnat's p_ss, I'll bet.

Jan,

You correctly summarise your input into my decision to get ESL63s. There is also "buy used, and save the planet"; plus the 988s are £3500 or similar. Some of my good friends are Chinese, and we are all going to have to get used to them being a world power; that is not the issue. Think "Shanling". But yes, credit where it is due. That's a major factor. Peter Walker was a genius. MR dislikes that word, with good cause, but I suspect that Quad has not yet spoken, not for him (smiley with wink).

Oh, ye of little faith....

Above all, it is the sound they make.

BTW, MR, re global warming and tubes, I think it is oil pipelines that are the problem, not the the fallopian sort. I went to a lecture recently where the guy pointed out the population of Australia is roughly equal to that of Bombay (which we must learn to call "Mumbai"). For the former, he thought there was no good reason why it should not be 200 million, if that's what people want. Anyway, with six kids, I suppose I am sort of on the back foot in with arguments of this kind. But people keep saying "wealth creation"....

"How far should one go?"

"All the way with LBJ"....

PPS Her Majesty recently presented lifetime achievement awards or similar to a team of Brit guitar greats. It was clear she had never heard of any of them, and only Eric had the grace to say, afterwards, to journalists, he couldn't see why she should have been expected to know who he was. Apparently she said "...And, tell me, how long have you been playing the guitar?" to which EC replied "About 45 years" and she said "Really, as long as that?".

Long may she reign.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2866
Registered: Dec-03
Nice, pics, MR!

Nice place; bet it sounds good, too!
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1486
Registered: Aug-04
John A

"wealth creation" - real wealth lies in what we love and keep not in our ability to buy. Look at the wealth you and Mrs A have created - Good Eric though John, you'll have to stop that.

Thanks John, but our home is but a mere cottage; in need of some work now, but it has been made to enjoy. There's only the two of us and the last thing we want is a huge home to upkeep.

Now I can understand you have had some revelation of sorts with the Quads but for Eric's sake, that's no need to go comppletely bonkers. I almost felt the same about the humble 602's - a new open, lucid sound that made me sit up and take note of how good mere cd's sound in s-t-e-re-o but I did come back down to earth when listening to hi-res surround again.

John - it is hi-res. Really and truly. Can't you hear it? It's richer, fuller and more wholesome and a whole lot better for you. Okay, some recordings are better than others, sure, but generally, it's a very noticable condition. And I'll pray to Eric they keep em coming.

Our Eric who art . . .

No go and enjoy those Quads - no, no, no - not the 'ludes, the speakers LOL!

BTW - you'd think some idiot aide would have filled the queen in on who she had supposedly invited the palace for a chat or whatever. I thought, 'How bl00dy rude!' and I usually don't mind our dear old majesty.



 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2867
Registered: Dec-03
Great stuff, My Rantz. Many thanks. I am at work right now.

I mentioned before EC's comment a few years ago when he was asked about the 60s graffito "Clapton is God".

He said he thought it was "a bit of an exaggeration" and "I never took it too seriously, myself". But the inflection (on the radio) showed no trace of irony. Perhaps his sense of humour is even drier than ours!

Must go. All the best.
 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 125
Registered: Jan-05
Thanks John, but our home is but a mere cottage; in need of some work now, but it has been made to enjoy. There's only the two of us and the last thing we want is a huge home to upkeep.

That's a great attitude! Too many Americans haven't learned that lesson and lead stressed out lives trying to maintain faux mcmansions - many of these folks really can't afford these homes to begin with. Anyway. Smaller is better. Except in speakers. :-)

Jan,

Mr. Dual is waiting for one of my epiphanies. Once I get the TV moved and the living room arranged the way I'm envisioning, I hope to have a better idea of how to give Mr. Dual his space.

After doing some research, I decided to get either an MR74 or MR77 tuner, both solid state. The challange is finding one in good condition in the $400-450 price range. I just don't listen to radio enough to justify going higher than that. Also, in my town, I cannot pick up the signals of my two favorite stations -but at least there is one good public jazz station, one good classical station and one good NPR station. But, my hope is the notable sensitivity of the Mac tuners (and a good antena) will help pull in the 2 weak stations. The tuner I made the offer on is an MR77. Unfortunately, the seller said I was the second to respond. He will ask for a firm commitment today from the first responder and, if he doesn't get it, the MR77 will be available for me. I was hoping the fact he wouldn't have to bother with shipping might sway him - he said it is tempting - but he will honor the 'first come, first served' policy. I respect that.

Now that you've got the MMG's have you considered going back to surround again?

Hmmm...I wonder if there is time to answer that before I must go off to work? Let's try.










No.
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Rantz - I certainly am not the one to tell you what to do with your bung holes but, for E.C.'s sake, please put something in there. You'll thank me in the morning. (My, that sounds much worse than I thought it would.)



"This is a threat, not a promise."

Wooooooooooo!!!

The Rogers have taken off their grills and are ready to put another notch in their binding posts, my freind.

"Think 'Shanling'."

I remember when the Japanese first made inroads into the American market. Their reputation quickly became a country that was good at copying American technology at a lower cost. And the Chinese reputation will become ...


"But people keep saying 'wealth creation'.... "

Don't want to stir the pot but this seems to be a term related to "ownership society". I just am not sure who is getting wealthy and who will end up owning who.


"Long may she reign."

It was good to see God save the Queen.




"Smaller is better. Except in speakers."

From the unholey 3/5a's; phhhhhhhhhhtttttttttt!!!


"No."

Right!








 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 126
Registered: Jan-05
MR,

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you would like Jack Johnson. He's a surfer dude who also makes really great, melodic pop music. Lots of acoustic guitars and cool percussion - and excellent recording quality. Very laidback with the occasional funk thrown in. And, lyrically, a little deeper than you might suspect during a casual listen. I suggest giving his new one, "In Between Dreams" a listen.

He's nothing at all like Beck - who I believe was the last recommendation I made to you. :-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 902
Registered: Dec-03
.........what to do with your bung..........

You're right Jan, that sounds terrible, but funny!
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1487
Registered: Aug-04
SM,

Thanks. I have a vague recollection of JJ's sound from the early years but will keep an eye out for another listen - if that makes sense. Your description does give me the impression I will enjoy it. I wasn't over fussed on Beck - but only heard a bit from a few tracks on the net.

Jan,

It's a.m. here and I just want to say thanks.

"It was good to see God save the Queen"

Very Good! LOL!


"No."

Right!

Oh Eric, gimme strength!

If you haven't heard Matt Bianco's "Le Luna" in sacd surround at reasonable volume, you haven't yet lived.

"From the unholey 3/5a's; phhhhhhhhhhtttttttttt!!!"

See what happens to speakers without holes!


 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1489
Registered: Aug-04
http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-bin/shownews.php?id=7623

Hip Hip Hooray!

Thank you Eric!

 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 127
Registered: Jan-05
MR,

JJ's early years? This is the Jack Johnson in my reference:

Jack

I think there's also a bluesman named Jack Johnson and a dead boxer named Jack Johnson, too.

 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Exactly my point, the input they received was "phhhhhhhhhhttttttttt!!!" Better do something about them bungs.


 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1490
Registered: Aug-04
SM

Thanks. I think I have your Jack Johnson totally confused with someone else. I have cd's of Jimmy Johnson (guitar) and Johnny Johnson (piano) both blues singers and I'm sure there was a Jack Johnson hanging around in my early years, but I must be wrong - wouldn't be the first time.

Okay,I had a quick listen - I have heard this guy. Not bad - good voice and sure way ahead of most of todays musos - though the music is not really my cup of tea. I'm more into jazz, blues, and rock especially with jazz or blues influence, a little reggae and a bit of the older pop music. Although I like acoustic guitar, it tends to become a bit monotonous for me when used on too many tracks.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1491
Registered: Aug-04
Jan

"Better do something about them bungs."

You're right. I hid them so no one can ever obscure the audio benefits of the renowned B&W dimpled flowports.

 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 903
Registered: Dec-03


Dimpled Flowports?


You really expect me to just let that one go?

Jan? Really? Now do you, Rantz?
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1492
Registered: Aug-04
Okay Rickster, you asked for it:

Various Flowports


(_!_)

A regular . . .


(__!__)

A fat . . .


(!)

A tight . . .


(_*_)

A sore . . .


{_!_}

Asstonishing


(_o_)

An 'O' ring


(_x_)


Kiss my . . .


(_zzz_)

A tired . . .


(_E=mc2_)

A smart . . .


(_$_)

Got money coming out of your . . .


(_?_)

Dumb . . .


Any questions?




 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Apparently the Queen said "...And, tell me, how long have you been drawing flow ports?" to which Rantz replied "About 45 years" and she said "Really, as long as that?".

To Rantz, knight of the noble flowport. Hiphip phhhhhhhhhhttttttttt!!!

Sorry, the Roger's got in there at the last.





 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

This might be interesting after about the fifth glass of Chivas. Scroll down about 2/3 to "UP THE AUDITORY CANAL WITH GUN & CAMERA".

http://www.dayton-wright.com/Refersnces001.html






 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 904
Registered: Dec-03
I'm laughing so hard I have tears running down my cheeks...................you guys are killing me with this one................Knight of the noble flowport...........stop please!


Does Larry know his speakers have dimpled flowports? STOP, I can't take any more.

Wait until Mer finds out....................please stop!
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1493
Registered: Aug-04
For those of you without flowports please stay away from sharp objects!

 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 128
Registered: Jan-05
LOL! I have dimpled flowports too! Unless, of course, the weinie speakers make it into my home and shoot'em down.

Got a bit of good news. The MR77 will be mine on Saturday. The seller's first buyer wasn't as serious as he first professed. Thank Eric, I now have a buyer for the MA's so I can pay for the tuner.

But! eBay caused a problem for me. They withdrew my Spendor ad because I violated their listing policy. Apparently, I was guilty of "search manipulation" by putting "B&W" and "Monitor Audio" in the title of my Spendor listing. grrrrr..... So, the 17 people who had it on their watchlist are now wondering what happened to it. I swear these speakers are starting to haunt me! They have now been relisted - legally this time.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1494
Registered: Aug-04
Conrats SM - and hoorah for dimpled flowports. I too am considering selling up some recently replaced and older audio gear on Ebay.

Hope the MR77 plays well for you.

 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 129
Registered: Jan-05
Rick,

Larry doesn't parade his flowport around naked like MR and I do so Mer may not know. Of course, when she's away teaching art, I'll bet Larry does expose his flowport.

 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 905
Registered: Dec-03
That showoff!



I have no dimpled flowports, so I'm just going to go back to rubbing my cones with a terry cloth sock....................
 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 130
Registered: Jan-05
Ahem...I'm not touching that one Brother Rick!
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 906
Registered: Dec-03
Just as well my child.............
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest


Dimpled Flowport S5e's , Porcelain stand mounted, NR Item number: 5757919517

Seller of this item? Sign in for your status Email to a friend (?)| Watch this item in My eBay (!)

Larger Picture: None currently available

Starting bid: US $899.00 (Flexible to some extent)


Time left: 6 days 21 hours
7-day listing, Ends Mar-14-05 16:25:20 PST
Start time: Mar-07-05 16:25:20 PST

History: 0 bids (we're not counting high school, are we?)

Item location: Charlotte, North Carolina
United States, can arrange an audition with prior notice and dinner

Ships to: United States, Canada Air Freight - No Returns accepted, please!

Description:

Item Specifics - Dimpled Flowports with bung hole covers

Equipment Type: Porcelain stand mount required

Wireless: No, but papers required

Brand: Dimpled Flowport

Condition: Well Used

Cabinet Color: Pink with Brown(ish) trim



Dimpled Flowports are high quality designs, recognized by the Queen of England. Like other British flowports, such as BM and Monitored Daily, these units are renowned for their excellent musicality, dynamics, tonal balance and accuracy. The Flowport S5e's have a very clean sound with a strong, punchy bottom, detailed mids and clear highs (without being harsh.) Do not sound pinched.

The units being auctioned have been used for a couple of months and have approximately 50 hours of real world use. Excellent condition with no flaws. They are great sounding! I have original packing materials, user manual and product registration card with serial number.

Because these flowports are lightly used and because I'm not a dealer, no warranty is offered or implied. Sale is final with no return policy offered. You can be assured these units are in working order, look like new, and work great. The manufacturer offers a limited warranty on the units but I don't know if it is transferrable. It is the buyer's responsibility to check with the manufacturer (LOL) to determine warranty coverage.

List price of Flowports: $1,795.00/pair(?) Will not separate

This is a no reserve auction. The starting bid is an honest figure and a great bargain for Flowports of this quality.


Technical Specifications:

- Frequency Response: +/- 3dB 52Hz-20KHz (After a Mexican meal)

- Sensitivity: Yes

- Nominal Impedance: (Ohms) 8 (purely resistive)
Power Handling: 15-200 watts into 8 ohms unzipped

*Reprinted from product information


Reviews:
http://www.stereophile.com/flowportreviews/904spendor/

Note to Canadian Buyers: Full value will be declared for customs. Expect a full cavity search upon crossing over.


 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 131
Registered: Jan-05
Cabinet color? Eeeewwwww.....

Must accuse you of violating the truth in advertising policy, Mr. Vigne. There's no dimpled flowports there....it's flowport is linear.

First notes re: the fancy HD cable. The copper wire in the HD cable is stiffer and thicker, hehehe, than the generic speaker wire it is replacing. The insertion process, might need some help here, reminded me of the one (and only one!) thing I don't like about Mighty Mac...those darn ole spring clips! Due to the previously mentioned stiffness and thickness, the insertion was very tight. Mr. REL is miffed that there's no room for him.
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Which cable did you buy?


 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2868
Registered: Dec-03
And I always thought "Freud" was a way to cook an egg.

JV, SM, MR, this is too much.

As the late, great Alma Cogan put it

Seems to me it would be a sin
If it's always covered by a safety pin
Where will the dimple be?


MR,

KK in March HFNews is scathing about dual disc. I am with you on this one. I am going to get one of these discs just to compare CD with MLP-DVD-A two-channel on the Quads. They reveal all. As it were...

JV,

Thank you for "up the auditory canal without a paddle" or whatever.

So, the guy discovered there was real music as a point of reference. Don't laugh. Probably most if us did that at some stage. It is the pot of gold waiting at the end of the hifi rainbow.

Multichannel need to be set up a-right if it is not going to be just distracting. I would guess MR is there, amongst others.

SM,

There are various lubricants on the market. So I am told. Never messed with 'em myself. Spring clips are sonically OK but likely to cause nightmares in inexperienced young dogs for whom all tricks are new. There is a surely a whole genre of Gothic psychodrama around that. I'll stick to HiFi News.

Before this stream of poetry passes completely, may I just thank 2c for

Solid state amps = acrylic paintings with bright colorful sheen

Tube amps = oil paintings with deep, rich colors, but perhaps duller on the surface


All that glistens is not gold
Oft times have I heard this told.

Man, that's deep.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2869
Registered: Dec-03
Any questions not answered in any of the above links?

Which one should I read first?

By "I would guess MR is there, amongst others" I meant with properly set-up multichannel.

I was goung to write some more about the pin-point accuracy of the imaging in the Quads. A perfect centre, with nothing physically there. As I said months ago, maybe a centre speaker is there for people who never really got stereo from two channels in the first place. But then we get back to Mercury and three-channel stereo. If that improves on the Quad sound-stage, I'll eat my hat. But I've done that before. It is an acquired taste.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2280
Registered: Dec-03
Got yu John:

You neither like nor feel the need for center channels.
I'll mark it down so I don't forget it. LOL

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
By the way I love mine and wouldn't trade it!
And I feel they serve a purpose when setup right and are of great quality
plus mate well with your mains so as not to distract when panning!

Of course that's just my oppinion.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1495
Registered: Aug-04
John A - you said:

"As I said months ago, maybe a centre speaker is there for people who never really got stereo from two channels in the first place"

I say:

How come - they have an extra ear sticking out of their forehead or something?

Using phantom center imaging might be fine a lot of the time if one has a very small listening position. For two or more listeners in a medium size (subjective) room a decent center speaker will make the world of difference in a set-up that combines hi-res surround music and the digital surround movie formats.

Not to disparage your Quads John, but I find (and have found) that the XTI-60's and the 602's do a remarkable job of pin-point imaging also - as would hundreds of other speakers (providing the source gives accurate information). Speaking for myself, I don't doubt for a moment that your Quads sound incredible and would most likely make me very envious, but you need to get over that 'wow' factor my friend and soon. LOL!

We keep going round and round on the center speaker merry-go-round. And please don't start on the poor old 'sub'.

I find (and I know to expect a comment from those with the golden ears) that in setting up for hi-res sound in particular, that an spl meter is essential. The closer the speakers the more precise the delay settings need to be and even (or very close to) distances from listening position to speaker is necessary for SACD when the player (as in most cases at present) the delay settings are void for this format. The recommended sacd speaker settings I believe are best for all surround formats though not always practical. I find great care has to taken in using an spl meter: very quiet house etc and by taking the mean readings from the mic up direction and mic to speaker directions from the precise central listening postion. The sub takes some trial and error and the volume levels I adjust to 80db with the reciever set to zero.

If people think their ears can do this accurately good luck to them - I consider my hearing to be reasonably good, but the meter tells me they are not so accurate at this task - not too bad, but that's not good enough. The best sound lies in the detail, which I discovered again when installing the new rears in a different and closer postion. I don't believe I can get it any better than it is now.

There is a new article on highfidelityreview.com which I believe is very good news for the DVD-A fans. I think there has been a lot of propaganda to damage the dualdisc format's credibility, but now Sony recording is even getting behind it so I guess the conspiracy continues - eh John LOL!

Cheers

And Kegger - I am with you on the center issue!

J.V. Have read part of the article - seems very familiar [grin].

Later all.

 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 907
Registered: Dec-03
Very clever and funny post Jan. Bravo. Only John could go from dimpled flowports to lubricants,and not be on the floor.

John,

Any thoughts on a Brit heading up SONY? Did I hear this correctly. It must be your biggest nightmare. I would just go home and pull the shades......SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (they are watching)

Rantz,

I believe the only purpose of a center channel speaker, is to anchor dialogue to the screen.

Cheers all!
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1496
Registered: Aug-04
Rick,

You musta wet the bed LOL!

I can't tell you what to believe - I can only go my own experiences. Experiment - I needn't tell you what to try. With the center speaker in surround, the singer (for example) will stay put when I move. Like you say - it anchors the sound - and not only for a screen. But, I guess we will all just keep going round and round on this - like dimples on a flowport, these are days of our lives [sigh]

 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 725
Registered: Oct-04
G-day all: Welll, now! I share - with My Rantz and Ms. Rantz - the joys of dimpled flowports. Think on this: anything moving through an orifice containing bumps, ripples or ridges, will be excited, and therefore result in an altered state, usually euphoric. In other words, the B&W flowports (dimpled) must by their nature produce happier sound! Mer certainly thinks it to be true. She has often commented on the more sense-ual sound coming from the 705s.

But she does not stop there, my friends. She is truly in love with the Mordaunt-Short. (unfortunate name, what?) Since we have incorporated that into the system Mer is delighted with my vastly improved low-end performance. As promised in the M-S literature. Yep. Low-end performance boosted dramatically! How about that? Eh?

Rick - that might even rival your cone-rubbing for pure lifestyle enhancement!

To breakfast. . more anon. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 726
Registered: Oct-04
SM - thinking about you and your insertion problems. Why not buy a set of Monster - or Rad-Shak for that matter - "pin" connectors? You can usually put them on speaker cable-ends with a few twists of wire and wrist - and they will easily go into the spring clips on the Mac. Ordinarily, I would not recommend them - but in your case, they would be very good. Gold-plated, and you would never worry about stray wires shorting out the connectors. Just a thought.
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 909
Registered: Dec-03
SM,

The Golden-Helix is perfect for the Maggies because it comes with bare wire ends, and that is what Magnepan recommends. Not to mention the sound. My 1.6's sang.
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 910
Registered: Dec-03
To all the "Old Dogs",

It just struck me that after 8000+ posts, we have finally regressed to; dimpled flowports, cone rubbing, and bottom end performance.

I'm going back to the cave. Has anyone seen my terry sock?
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 727
Registered: Oct-04
Rick: You can run, but you can't hide! (heh-heh)

And remember - you're the one promoting cone-rubbing! (grin)

PSSSSST - you'll find your terry sock under the bed. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 728
Registered: Oct-04
John A. - "Freud eggs?" Too funny, sir! hahahaha
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 729
Registered: Oct-04
SM - repeating the question Jan V. asked: what size and type of HD wire did you buy? Inquiring minds want to know!
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 911
Registered: Dec-03
Larry,

Thank you! LOL
 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 132
Registered: Jan-05
I think I got the same cable mentioned in Jan's post. It is a 14ga wire with an orange and black sheathing. I got a 25ft cable with electrical connectors on each end, which I cut off. Inside the sheath, there are 3 wires insulated in black, white and green. I stripped the ends of the white wire bare and connected to the + connections on the Mac/Maggie and the black wire for the - connections.

On first listen, there seemed to be a pretty dramatic difference from what I heard with the regular 14ga speaker wire. The bass seemed to have more punch and there seemed to be even greater clarity in the midrange. But, in conjunction with connecting the HD cable, it was also the first opportunity to listen to the Maggies yesterday and I'm always filled with surprise and awe at what I'm hearing - so, maybe this was just 'business as usual' and had nothing to do with the HD wire. :-)

If I have time tonight, I may reconnect the original speaker wire into one of the other speaker outputs and do a direct listening comparison between the two.

I'm also going to order the Mapleshade cable and give it a try.
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

"And I always thought "Freud" was a way to cook an egg."

Yoo've been in Sveden too long, my freund!

**************

" ... but perhaps duller on the surface"

Highly illogical, it simply does not stand to reason, Captain.

****************

"But then we get back to Mercury and three-channel stereo. If that improves on the Quad sound-stage, I'll eat my hat."

Salt and pepper?

******************

"As I said months ago, maybe a centre speaker is there for people who never really got stereo from two channels in the first place"

"I say:

How come - they have an extra ear sticking out of their forehead or something?"

Wait a minute, I thought that was my point.
If you only have two ears, why's how come ya needs all them extra speakers? This all comes down to that male thing about bigger and more than the next guy, doesn't it? Whoever dies with the most toys ...

***************

"If people think their ears can do this accurately good luck to them - I consider my hearing to be reasonably good, but the meter tells me they are not so accurate at this task - not too bad, but that's not good enough."

But that's what I like! What's so wrong about that? How can it be so wrong when I like it so much? Why the need for "accuracy"? And how do you judge what is "accurate", just by looking at a meter?

Seriously, if there were standards in the recording industry that said there is a set level for each recording, then a meter might make sense. Since the levels employed for center, surround and sub are arbitrary and change at the whim of the engineer or producer, I don't see how there can be accuracy in levels set in the home.

Does anyone really set the levels once and leave them there no matter what sound they get from recording to recording?

In this instance, I will defer to those who regularly listen to multiple speakers with their two (only) ears.

***********************

" Have read part of the article - seems very familiar."

It one person's opinion. Opinions are like flowports.

*****************

"Why not buy a set of Monster - or Rad-Shak for that matter - "pin" connectors?


GET THE DEFIBRILLATOR. HURRY!! CODE BLUE - CODE BLUE!!! WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO CAUSE THIS? WHAT? ....... PINS!!!!!!!!!! OH, GOOD ERIC!!!!















 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

SM - If you do the second speaker output for comparison, only have one set of cables connected at the speaker end at one time. Otherwise, even though the unused pair of cables will not be driving the speaker, the entire circuit of amp to cable to speaker will still be including the unused cable in the impedance of the circuit. Though the differences should be slight, make certain you adjust for any volume changes when switching betweeen the two cables.




 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 912
Registered: Dec-03
I knew that you had some Vulcan blood J.V. It was the logical conclusion.
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

1965: First U.S. combat troops land in Vietnam.


Today's news:
Hans Bethe, Prober of Sunlight and Atomic Energy, Dies at 98


Rick - Eminently logical, sir. It's why I wear my hair over my ears.




 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 730
Registered: Oct-04
Jan V. - easy, fellah! Renew your lithium prescription, and all will be well.

And just what the heck is wrong with pin connectors in SM's Mac-connection? Eh? Would surely make her connector-life a lot easier! Whew! JV's gotta get a life! (grin)
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1497
Registered: Aug-04
"Does anyone really set the levels once and leave them there no matter what sound they get from recording to recording?"

Of Course! Adjusting the levels for each channel has little to do with the levels used at the recording. No matter which disc is in play the distribution to the channels needs to be consistent.If this wasn't so then (a) the sound variation between different discs would be glaringly obvious and (b) it would be pointless having a ht or surround set-up that required level adjustments with each listen.

Eric - you gave man two ears to hear the world in surround. Why can't you, with all your power, convince those who think two ears must only hear one channel each at the same time. If we were made to hear only stereo or mono, most of us would have been run over by a bus years ago! My Eric, you gave man the brains to discover e=mc2 and design dimpled flowports, surely you can do this one biddy little thing to end such suffering!
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1498
Registered: Aug-04
Correction: "(a) the sound variation between different discs would be glaringly obvious"

Should be: "(a) the sound variation between different channels would be glaringly obvious"

 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

" ... it would be pointless having a ht or surround set-up that required level adjustments with each listen."

Right, now you're catching on.



 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

BY ERIC, we may finally be getting somewhere. I don't know where because I don't know where we are. But if we could get to where we were going when we started going and we were headed in the direction we were going, then we would be where we need to be when we get there. Finally.


 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2281
Registered: Dec-03
....................Y E P.................
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1499
Registered: Aug-04
"Right, now you're catching on."

Oh, I think I caught on long ago. And hey, I know where I am - I got here.


 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1500
Registered: Aug-04
A writer I am not - let me try again:

Adjusting the levels for each channel has little to do with the levels used at the recording. No matter which disc is in play the distribution to the channels needs to be consistent.If this wasn't so then (a) the sound variation between different channels would be glaringly obvious and (b) it would require having a ht or surround set-up that required level adjustments with each listen - and that would be pointless.

Now, I hope that is clearer!

Good Eric, They almost thought I'd turned there for a moment.
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

" ... it would require having a ht or surround set-up that required level adjustments with each listen - and that would be pointless."

Yeah, that's what I've been saying.



 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

The direction is clear if only we knew where we were.


 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 133
Registered: Jan-05
Buying and selling equipment is a pain in the flowport. First, a buyer for the MA's turned out to be a scammer, then a local buyer for the Spendors made 2 separate attempts to lead me to believe we were to complete a deal. Now, the guy who's selling the tuner has not responded to me in over 24 hours about completing a deal for that. He sent email yesterday letting me know it would be available and I've sent 3 emails since last night confirming I want it and have heard nada.

Plus, my manager wants me to go to India for 3 weeks. I think I'll only do this if they let me take a few days in Amsterdam at company expense.


The speaker cable test won't happen tonight. I'm watching the Gilmore Girls, then the Amazing Race and then I'm going to bed. Dammit.


I'm in a bad mood.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1502
Registered: Aug-04
Amsterdammit! That's tough SM! All of it - including the Gilmore Girls. Hope things work out better for you.

 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 135
Registered: Jan-05
Holy C r a p! When you crank the Mac up to 12 on the volume and put on some Jane's Addiction, bad moods can subside. Right now listening to "Ted, Just Admit It"....incredible. This song leads in with some drum and bass action and the drum kit is here. Damn.

 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 913
Registered: Dec-03
BE the drums, Grasshopper......................
 

Silver Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 136
Registered: Jan-05
test
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest
1,2,3









 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest
"Adjusting the levels for each channel has little to do with the levels used at the recording."


How about this instead, "The levels used at the recording have little to do with (me) adjusting the levels for each channel (once)"?


"No matter which disc is in play the distribution to the channels needs to be consistent."


Why is that if the distibution to the channels is not consistent with each disc? If there are no set standards that all engineers agree upon - and - the end user does not reference their equipment to a set level before play begins, why does it matter if the channels at the user end are all set to the same level if that level might be wrong? (Wrong in this case as referenced to a non existent level set. I don't see how all channels producing the same level at my listening position gaurantees that the recording will sound "accurate" when the levels on the disc may not be the same as the last disc I played. Some discs place the performers in front with little back wall sound. Some place the performers in front with moderate to quite a bit of rear wall sound. Some place the performers all around the room with no definite placement of a rear wall of any kind. So what is accurate from disc to disc?)


"If this wasn't so then (a) the sound variation between different channels would be glaringly obvious ... "


And it quite often is.




When I sold Sony ES, they sold a pre amp with DSP features that eventually found their way down into the receiver line and to some extent the basic Sony gear sold at the Big Box stores. I would imagine, though I haven't looked, other companies would have features similar to what Sony was selling back in those early days of digital surround. I know Yamaha had many of the same ideas on their products several years ago.


These features were based on DSP measurements Sony had taken of dozens of venues around the world. At the touch of a button on the remote, the listener could call up a cathedral in England or a jazz club in Berlin. The basic numbers were installed as default positions when you first set up the processor. From these defaults the listener could build a set of personal preferences that changed the seating position, the reflectance and absorption of the space and how many people were in the space with the listener among other things related to the acoustic signature of the space and where the listener perceived themself within that space. From there the space could be used as a model that could be changed into a totally different space by altering the reflection times for different frequencies and side and back walls. On the more sophisticated (?) units, the listener could even alter where the performer(s) sat in the space. All this could be placed into preset 1, subset 1. The listener could then go back and model a different space from the same basic preset to use for playback of a different recording and place that in preset 1, subset 2. All in all the listener could build and store over 10,000 preset/subset locations all of which could be called up with the touch of a few buttons. Each subset could then be altered further while in use and the listener could erase or store these changes.

I don't think any of the Old Dogs have a processor that accomplishes that much. Even so, the idea this can be done on the playback end is merely an indication of what the engineers and producers have to work with. To a large extent the process of putting the sound of a recording on a disc appears to be, in many cases, not much more than what the engineer/producer/artist likes or prefers.

Since I think we agreed a while back that standards of accuracy are not that important in many recordings, why should there be a standard of accuracy in the playback equipment? Even with the fairly simple NAD processor I use, I can take a small jazz club recording and I can move forward or backward from the performers by altering the settings on my system. If I don't care for what I hear at one setting, why shouldn't I change the setting to satisfy what I think is pleasant. By incorporating the settings on my Sony SACD player, I can change even more aspects of the playback to suit what I prefer instead of what the producer intended. With just the flick of a switch I can change the shape of the performance space. Or I can move an instrument that floats in space on a recording such as DSOTM by altering the level. I can certainly make the heartbeat more or less impressive by changing the level on the sub. So I'm not at all convinced I should set the system up with a calibrated meter and then never touch the controls again. If I am listening to a symphony and there is, in my opinion, too much rear wall sound in the recording, am I supposed to listen to something that bothers me when I have the ability to change the level and make the sound more pleasing (if not possibly more accurate in my mind)?

Anyone?




 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1503
Registered: Aug-04
Jan,

If it bothers you then go change the settings. I think you miss my point. The loudness levels change from recording to recording with the channel loudness settings calibrated and set on the player and/or receiver. Then we have the volume control to adjust to our preferred istening level.

I have not had one hi-res disc yet where I felt I needed to go back in and adjust the channel loudness levels. Maybe I'm just not as pedantic with the sound and get lost in music.

As for the clubs, hall, stadiums dsp's my old yammie had all that junk! Thank Eric Marantz knows better.

 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2282
Registered: Dec-03
For the most part I do setup my surround with my radio shack meter.

I set my rears and center 2db higher than the mains.
And I leave it set like that and save it into my prepro's eprom.
Then on my remote if I feel the need to adjust the center channel there's 2 buttons
for the center channel + - so I can adjust it.
(all my channels have one)
But it dosen't change my default
setting, meaning that when I shut my system down it goes back to the defaults I've saved.
If you want to set it back to default while it's on, it shows you onscreen or
on it's display how far in db's you are + or - from zero. (adjusts in .5 db)
The center channel is the only thing I adjust and mainly just on movies not music.
So yah I basically leave my settings as they are for suround music.
But that doesn't mean everyone should, if you want to adjust then adjust!

"To a large extent the process of putting the sound of a recording on a disc appears to be, in many cases, not much more than what the engineer/producer/artist likes or prefers."

Yes that is why if you leave everything set the same you'll get what they intended!

Seems the same with stereo once you get your system setup the "way you like it"
some people leave it that way for every recording while others may tweak every song.
Or at least tweak more than others would ever dream of doing.

Some people feel they like to get what the disk intends to give and others
feel they want to alter it to suit there tastes.

seems no different then any other form of music listening.

Larry with his tone controls or some who prefer a sub or maybe more bass, The people
who like center channels and how they anchor the voice as to others who prefer not
to have a center channel or sub. maybe the guy who likes his tubes to be nice and
warm in the midrange or rolled off at the extremes.

It all comes down to personal preference! If the recording is that far out of
wack to where your personal preference makes you change it then by all means change it.
But others may like what it's doing and have no problem with, just feel it's
suppose to sound that way and for them it's fine.
 

Silver Member
Username: Sem

New York USA

Post Number: 430
Registered: Mar-04
Might be of interest to some of you old dogs.


Small company that makes great products to stay put......NY State business development agency helped to save McIntosh from going out of state or possibly abroad.

http://www.pressconnects.com/today/business/stories/bu030905s153133.shtml
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 731
Registered: Oct-04
MR, JV, Kegger, et al. I have to agree with Rantz that, when first in use, I try to set all speakers at the same level. I don't have an SPL meter, so try to make do with my ears (such as they are). Then - once I've got all balanced to my hearing, I set up my "presets" on the NAD.

For music, I set mains at 0 - and surrounds at minus 4. For video - I set mains at 0 and surrounds at plus 2.

On my NAD remote, I can boost or attenuate surrounds and sub - so there is a sorta "instant flexibility" there.

I'm thinking that what My Rantz was trying to 'splain several postings ago was that he set up his speakers initially so that one wasn't louder than the rest, for example. At least that's my interpretation of his posting.

And yes, I do have a weird necessity in my listening room to boost bass by 2 db and attenuate treble by 2 db. Just "warms" things up a tad. "Natural?" Well, I guess not.

All this could change in the near future, however, for Yamaha has the first of what will surely be the "norm" for home theatre. Below, please. . .
- - - - - -
http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/YamahaYSP-1DigitalSoundPr ojector1.php
- - - - - - - -

It would appear that the new Yammie is for movies, and not for SACDs-DVD-As, but maybe I missed some inputs when reading. Probably. . .

Meanwhile, I "slop along" with what I've got! (grin)

As to all of the "concert halls, jazz clubs," and other settings - nope - I ain't got dem tings. But what I ain't got I don't miss. . .

Rick B. - It's 57 degrees and blowing a rainstorm that would make a Nawthurner proud! The "Sunshine State" indeed! (grin) But heck, our lake sorely needed the water, and so that's good. Also, the flowers (hibiscus, Mexican petunia, poinsettia, etc.) love this weather. It's Spring down heah, sir, and time for y'all to make relocation plans! But you better hurry - the home prices escalate every day. As one local Realtor told me: "If you want to buy a house - do it yesterday!" Hmm. . .

SM - how is your wire-testing coming? Despite the "franticity" of Jan V. - I still suggest pin connectors for the wires going into the Mac. Would make your life mucho easier. Mer's liddle studio-stereo has those spring connectors for speakers - hate 'em! Anything larger than 16AWG wire splays out and unless I'm careful, tends to short out the connectors. Sigh. So I use 16-gauge! It's one of those el-cheapo "all-in-one" units, anyway, so 16-gauge is more than fine. About three steps up from a boombox - but as it is always covered in clay, paint and artist-dirt, well - it's expendable! (grin)

Happy March to all. . . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 732
Registered: Oct-04
Sem: A good-news posting, sir! And - upon reading the link: "Yum!" Just look at those wunnerful blue-lit meters! Ahhhhhhh!!!!! About the only gear of its kind that I lust for even more than the NAD! (drool) (Kegger take note)

SM - more blue meters! Yep. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 915
Registered: Dec-03
Thanks Sem, great link and story. I was following the story, and am very pleased on the outcome. As a native New Yorker, Mac fan, and Republican, I will fire off a letter to Gov. Pataki, to express my approval on the matter.


Can you imagine a McIntosh not made in the USA? The horror...................
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Just in case anyone is still wondering, I have made a career of missing someone's point. It seems we still come back to the thing we are striving for is "accuracy within the bounds of personal taste". My point was the use of a meter to adjust individual levels when you are not setting them to any fixed position is more dog and pony show than all my speaker set up instructions could hope for. Also if there is no real standard, my ears are as good an arbitter of personal preference as any meter. Kegger certainly doesn't need a meter to tell him the center and rear speakers are +2dB or so higher than the fronts. He is (apparently) setting the system to his taste and a meter can't do much to quantify that. I never discourage anyone from availing themself of technology (old or new), it just seems a meter is another way to enjoy one's system in many cases. As to being a boorish pedant, I would have to say I can claim that title if that means I find some recordings annoying in their use of surround levels. Since I have the ability to alter the levels to my taste, I would prefer to do so and not be so intransigent that I would listen to something I found bothersome. Whether anyone else would find it bothersome also is a matter of taste. Listening to a system that is annoying in its balance is, as was said, pointless. But we have established I listen to my own taste in music and I listen for and prefer different things about my system so the discussion can again end with a matter of taste and preference being the judge and jury. Hard time with no lemons (i.e. Martha Stewart)avoided.

It is very good to see Mac staying in N.Y., a third world Mac just conjures up all the bad things the Japanese did to Marantz for so many years.

I see nothing about music sources in the Yamaha piece, Larry. This appears to be similar to the KEF system but with Oriental overkill. (Forty amplifiers?) Not uncommon for Yamaha who have always wanted to be ahead of the pack in terms of DSP. The rivalry between Yamaha, Sony and Denon has been going on for years. JVC used to be a player, as did Sansui, but neither have had the press coverage of the more well known names of late. It will be interesting to see if this actually develops into another viable system or gets lost in the many attempts to, as the writer put it, create a market defining product only to fade away into the annals of history along with Yamaha's speaker shaped like a human ear.


The mulch was pulled back today to let the soil warm for the spring tomatoes that will go in after the 17th which is our last average freeze date in Dallas. The sun is out for a change and the temp will get into the lower 70's. I understand the NorthEast is getting hit again with a wave of snow and ice. Feel superior in August when Texas is in the 100's and the tomatoes are begging for a bit of afternoon shade.


 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 733
Registered: Oct-04
Jan V. - thanks - I thought the Yamaha unit did not appear to support SACD, but wasn't sure.

And further, please - what "bad things" did the Japanese do to Marantz for so many years? I need to learn here - not being critical. I thought the Marantz stuff was still made in Japan. . .

Know what you mean about tomatoes in summer - but right now we need a tad of heat! Temp has gone down to 51 - more rain - turned on the furnace. Which I hate to admit doing - in Florida??!!?? Gasp.

Got an e-mail from my strange friend in LA - you know, the one who "lost" the box of speaker cables under his front car seat? Yep. . .

Anyway, he says that folk "out West" have high praise for my new-but-broken Yamaha. He says the factory - somewhere near where he lives - will "make good" on the unit. Oh, really? How the heck does he know? He didn't elaborate. . .

Maybe if I just "yell" Yamaha, Yamaha, Yamaha, help!" on this open forum somebody in power will read and come to my aid? (grin) No - seriously, I loved the unit, while it worked.

SM - a friend of mine is interested in Maggies, all because of you and all your hooting and hollering about their greatness! (grin) He may actually buy some, who knows? Meanwhile, I still have not gone down to our emporium of dubious hi-fi knowledge to audition the 1.6s that I know to be there. Someday soon. . .

More anon. . .


 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1504
Registered: Aug-04
Never, I repeat never, in all the set-up tips for DD, DTS, SACD and DVD-A, both in manuals or audio websites or other literature have I ever read where it is necessary to alter the speaker/channel levels once set. For surround movies I agree that the ears can be used to get things close enough, but for the hi-res formats, close enough is not as good as 'spot on'. It's no different than other tweaks that help one to 'get there' musically.

If you have a listening room where speakers are unobstucted by furniture and all things are designed not to impede sound waves and so on then good luck to you. Apparantly, according to JV, my ears are shot and/or I just wanted an spl meter so I could spend more money and have another toy to play with.

And again I thank Mr Wonder ears for putting words in my mouth (or on my post)- where did I mention boorish?. One thing is for sure, disagreement certainly doesn't agree with some people. As I said, if anyone finds the need to change their levels go right ahead - I haven't found the need, but then of course my musical taste ain't in the league as some others here.

I wonder why the 'professionals' use meters along with test discs. I guess their ears are as shot as mine.

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