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What kind of receiver? (Marantz, Denon or Yamaha?)

 

OCG
Unregistered guest
Hi..

Im looking for a new receiver, but I cant make up my mind on what to choose.. I want a 7.1 system with atleast 100w per channel (8ohm), and it has to be strong enough to handle 4 ohms front speakers (Dali Axs10K) and 5 ohm surround speakers.. Its mainly going to be used to movie watching, and a few parties ;), so it got to have a little "kick" in it..

Ive gotten a very good deal on the Marantz Sr7400 receiver, and Ive read that it handles 4ohms speakers fine,but others says it doesnt..

Other receivers Ive looked at is:

-Denon AVR-3803 (This is about 360$ expensiver)
-Yamaha RX-V2400 (Also about 360$ more)

Ive also checked out the NADT763, but it seems too noisy, and need another amplifier to handle 7.1 (and then it gets expensive)..

If you got any other suggestions, then come with them, or give me the pros and cons between these receivers :-)

Thanks
 

Silver Member
Username: Johnny

Post Number: 104
Registered: 12-2003
OCG,

I don't know anything about your speakers, and I don't know if the Marantz can handle 4ohms or not...I read through the manual a bit and couldn't find much information. However, I do know that neither the Yamaha nor Denon will handle 4 ohms. So I think you can take them off of your list. I know for a fact that the NAD can handle 4 ohms with ease, and would have much more power than any of the other models you listed so you can "kick it"...but if you want 7.1 without adding amps, you would have to go up to the 773. I don't know what type of price you are getting on the Marantz, but it is going to be tough for you to find a receiver that will do 7.1 and will handle 4 ohms without spending quite a bit more money. However, if you were willing to go with 6.1...your options would open up considerably.
 

New member
Username: Jasonhall

Post Number: 7
Registered: 02-2004
I just bought a Marantz 7400 and I did not read anything in the manual about it handling 4 ohms. 6 and 8 yes, but not 4.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 14
Registered: 02-2004
You could go for T753 or T752 and buy a separate stereo or 3-channel amp (NAD, Rotel, Arcam) for the fronts. You would get enough power in 7.1 and nice sound for your fronts for music.
 

OCG
Unregistered guest
Thanks for the input :-)

Ill check out the 773, but Ive heard that most NAD receivers are troubled with loud noised fans? And its a bit out of the price ranged i had calculated with, but maybe I can stretch it ;)

Hmm, I think I must try to contact Marantz directly, Ive been in touch with two hi-fi dealers, and they both assured me that it would work well with 4ohm speakers.. Maybe they dont know what they are talking about?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jonmoon

Post Number: 73
Registered: 12-2003
OCG, I have the T763 and have never heard a fan. I would think most other owners of NAD receivers would say the same thing.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Gatt767

Post Number: 27
Registered: 01-2004
Within my setup I have a T762, no fan and hum probs. at all. Very Flexible receiver, especially when controlled through the rs232 with the supplied windows software
 

New member
Username: Sulfur

Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2003
OCG,

I have a 7300ose. In the 7300/7300ose manual it has ratings @ 6ohm & 8ohm, but not 4ohm. Just like the 7400.

However, somebody is apparently driving his 4ohm $5k Dynaudio Contour 3.0 successfully with a Marantz 7300ose:

http://www.audioreview.com/A-V,Receivers/Marantz,SR7300ose/PRD_143784_2718crx.as px

If the 7400 is built like it's predecessor, then in theory the answer is yes.

That said, you will probably get more "ground shaking" power from a NAD 762/763/773. My impression after hrs & hrs of direct comparison last fall is, the 7300 is close to a NAD 752 in terms of performance.
 

Silver Member
Username: Johnny

Post Number: 106
Registered: 12-2003
OCG,

I wouldn't worry about any fans in NAD products. I have an NAD T762 and I have never heard anything. In fact, I don't think it even has fans in the first place. I may be wrong...I have never cracked it open to find out.
 

Silver Member
Username: Johnny

Post Number: 107
Registered: 12-2003
OCG,

Also, I think I agree with what Landroval says. If you aren't able to produce the extra cash for the 773, I would recommend that you get a 752 or 753 and get another amp to power the front speakers...thus getting 7.1. You can get an NAD stereo amp for anywhere from $350 on up depending on where you buy. The 753 can be had new for around $800...making your total system price between $1100 and $1200.
 

OCG
Unregistered guest
Thanks for all the replies :-)

I think Im going to go for your suggestions and try NAD on my front speakers, Ive might get a NAD218THX cheap (I guess its better than C372?)

Also I can get Pioneer VSX-AX3 for a VERY good price,I didnt mention it at first because I knew it wouldnt handle 4 ohm speakers so well, but I found out it got a pre-out for the frontspeakers..

How well will these two amplifiers work together, have concerns since they are different brands..
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sjordan872

Post Number: 46
Registered: 01-2004
Robert, would you please elaborate on your rs232 port and Windows software? Did the receiver come with it, how do you physically access it and what sort of upgrades do you use it for? Thanks
 

hult
Unregistered guest
Good question Blazer.:-)
 

RJ
Unregistered guest
ocg the yamaha's can handle 4 ohm speakers, as well as marantz, onkyo, h/k. i have tried a RX-Z1 with some Martin Logan Speakers, i think the speaker mod is called Accent, i think, but anyway it push the martin logan towers which are 4 ohms, but the PE VSX-47tx could not. But hopefully the Pioneer Elites could push them now. I hope!!
 

Silver Member
Username: Johnny

Post Number: 113
Registered: 12-2003
RJ,

To say that "Yamaha's can handle 4 ohm speakers" I believe is simply incorrect. If you say you tried the RX-Z1 and it worked...then your statement would be true for THAT MODEL ONLY. You have to keep in mind that the RX-Z1 up until a few months ago was their top of the line model, and is VERY expensive. The RX line is created by a special division of Yamaha that is "no holds barred" and their products are much different than the rest of Yamaha's receivers. Yamaha's have proven to be very underpowered at times, and often do not come anywhere close to meeting their specified power ratings. I seriously doubt that any Yamaha model other than the RX-Z1 or the newer RX-Z9 will push 4 ohm speakers.

You also say that Marantz, Onkyo, and HK can push 4 ohms. I would tend to agree with you on the Marantz and HK, but once again...Onkyo has been tested many times by various sources, and they, like Yamaha, often times do not come close to meeting their specified power ratings. So once again, I seriously doubt that Onkyo would push 4 ohms.

If I am wrong, please correct me, but your posting goes against everything I have ever learned about these two brands.
 

RJ
Unregistered guest
johnny i did see the rx-z1 push the 4 ohm speakers now i will test the rx-v1400 and the rx-v2400 and see what they can do. and the onkyo i was talking about is the tx-sr601. it was hooked up to a pair of polk audio's LSi series speakers. the onkyo did push those speakers quite well in IMHO!! and what do you mean the rx line is made buy a different division by yamaha?
 

JW
Unregistered guest
Johnny,

The Snell E.5's are a heavy 4 Ohms; Hi Fi Choice reported their mean (not angry but statistical sense)load tested at 8.7 Ohms! Much like Dynaudio, they demand alot of juice to come alive.

Point here is the Snell's were mated with a H/K 525; their promo billing is "enough power to handle all your needs"for this model and it could not drive the Snell's to anything approaching dynamic. It also heated up immediately, not inside the stereo cabinet but on top of it. Rechecked the manual and it also only refers to 8 ohms. Strange, but at 44 lbs. their has to be more than a couple of squirrels inside the unit and it was still not adequate in my experience.

The Yammie 1400 sonics were impressive with the 4 Ohm Snells; a vast improvement over my 3 year old Yamaha, maybe there is something to their new "TopART" high current design, maybe BS but it did not overheat; the balance became strained at high volume as the treble brightened up.

The NAD 752 maintained full composure and balance; it effortlessly drove the Snells to high volume.Only driving 5 channels, the 4 ohm fronts and 6 ohm rears did the fan kick in at high volume and it was virtually undetectable.

Another example of NADs' driving 4 ohm loads (and probably capable of 2 Ohm as advertised).

As far as Yamaha flagships, you know much more than this writer; at their price points they better be good because their made to compete with separates.
 

New member
Username: Johnny

Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2003
RJ and JW,

I only know what I have read on this board. I myself have never actually tried Yamaha with 4 ohm speakers. However, to quote another thread "The Yamaha 2400 will only output 43.5 watts into 8 ohms at .1% with 5 channels driven". In my mind, that is pretty poor for a receiver billed as 120w x 7. If you say you heard this receiver push 4 ohms easily, then I will not argue with you. I know I wouldn't want to try it, but that is just me. When the NAD T752 was tested with all channels driven, it rated at 92w x 5. For a receiver only rated at 80w x 5...you can see why I recommended the brand and why JW said it pushed the 4 ohm load with ease.

As for this "special division" of Yamaha, this is the way I understand it. Within the company, there are two separate "divisions" (for lack of a better word). One division makes regular receivers...which in this case would be every Yamaha receiver EXCEPT the RX-Z1 and RX-Z9. Then there is another division that is totally independant of the first. This division, to quote Hawk, "gets to make a no holds barred product for bragging rights". This would be the Z1 and Z9. Overall, these receivers have much better power supplies and other components. If you have listened to one of these "flagship" recievers and some of Yamaha's other "regular" receivers, the sound is quite different.
 

JW
Unregistered guest
Johnny,

If you have auditioned the high end Yamahas please report your impressions; I have no idea but would be curious. Thanks.....
 

Silver Member
Username: Johnny

Post Number: 128
Registered: 12-2003
JW,

Like I said, I only know what I have heard on this board. I have never actually listened to any of these "high end" models, but there are several on this board who have. From what I have heard, these high end models do not sound nearly so "bright" as the rest of the Yamaha line.
 

Bronze Member
Username: E1kad2

Post Number: 28
Registered: 12-2003
JW,
I have auditioned the high end models of Yamaha, I tell you this, they are damn wonderfull. I will not anymore list down technical features but am sure you'll not regret owning one. I do own the 1400 and take note, I'm using a 4ohm speaker. One setback is that the receiver heats up quickly or should I say natural bec. of the load. I just pity members here who rely on the others input and boast as if they knew everything but actually...NOT.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Buckeyeshine

Post Number: 14
Registered: 02-2004
"I just pity members here who rely on the others input and boast as if they knew everything but actually...NOT."

There's the pot calling the kettle black.

I do agree, take advice here with a grain of salt and let YOUR EARS make the decision.

However, thanks to the advice of elitefan, hawk and others here I gave NAD a shot instead of blindly following the Yamaha brand which I had before and so far, I haven't regretted it one bit.

HK, Arcam, and Rotel are other good ones to consider in the mix (to name a few) but I don't have any personal experience with them.

Point I want to make is don't just necessarily follow the mainstream. Keep your options open...visit multiple dealers in your area since each dealer will push their respective brands. Good luck.
 

RJ
Unregistered guest
Johnny, if you never heard the upper end yamaha's why dont you listen to them and stop feeding us the bull$hit!!!!!!
 

Bronze Member
Username: E1kad2

Post Number: 29
Registered: 12-2003
You are one of the believers! But I do agree with this "...let YOUR EARS make the decision. Rotel yes. NAD, almost got it but had bug issues. YAMY 1400 over T763. Its just me. Cheers!
 

Silver Member
Username: Johnny

Post Number: 141
Registered: 12-2003
RJ,

I have never driven a Ferrari either, but after reading and hearing things about them, I think I can pretty safely say that it drives a little better than my 13 year old Oldsmobile does.
 

RalphB
Unregistered guest
According to the Yamaha tech info on the RX-V1400, the power supply has been significantly improved over earlier versions. The power transformer weighs in at 11.9 lb. and the electrolytic filter caps (2 each) are 10,000uf. This does improve the dynamics of the supply, and hence the "short burst" output capability. And, the tech info also specs the dynamic output power vs. speaker impedance as follows (Note: This is not RMS output, but rather dynamic power or "headroom" as NAD typically specs): 8 ohms, 145 watts; 6 ohms, 185 watts, 4 ohms, 240 watts; and 2 ohms, 320 watts. The unit does not have the typical +3dB to +6dB headroom as seen in earlier NAD amps rated at 8 ohms however. Nevertheless, it appears from the above mentioned data the unit will work into 4 ohms without too much of a problem. Good installation practices regarding clearance for proper cooling should be adhered to, of course. Certainly, the RX-V1400 is no NAD when it comes to dynamic headroom at 8 ohms, but it is no slouch either. And, this comes from a long-time NAD fan, who happens to own both - NAD and Yamaha.
 

anon
Unregistered guest
johnny

reading about it on a message board and actually hearing it with your own ears are two different things!
 

New member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 9
Registered: 02-2004
Yamaha RX-V1400s real world performance isn't that great at very low impedances. Measured constant power for 8/4Ohms is 5*100W/5*110W, and 20ms burst for 8/4/2Ohms is 5*130W/125W/54W. Same numbers for H/K AVR325 are 5*76W/99W and 5*87W/110W/120W. So Yamaha seems to be great when impedance stays over 4Ohm, but the H/K starts to shine when going under that.
 

Unregistered guest
landroval,

Would suggest you check out my post upwards eleven notches.

Forget about the measurements and real world performance; this writer ran the H/K 525 for over a week with 4 ohm Snells in my home listening room.

The receiver was a dog compared to Yamaha 1400 and NAD 752. The 525 overheated to hot in 10 minutes on only 2 front channels running - straight ahead stereo- with the fan kicking in almost immediately; the sound (wholly subjectve) was thin and washed out.

Additionally, rechecked the manual on H/K web page; it only cites 8 ohms. Why?

As reported, the Yammie was (wholly subjective) dynamically impressive with no heat issues at all.

The only thing mutually exclusive to our discussion is the 4 ohm Snells; the H/K may drive other 4 ohm speakers which is not my specific experience.

I doubt it.
 

New member
Username: W9cw

Post Number: 5
Registered: Mar-04
For what it's worth, here is some recent information on the Yamaha RX-V1400 output into 5-channels continuously driven.

Hi-Fi Choice magazine, a respected U.K. magazine which conducts thorough hardware reviews, had an interesting Group Test & Lab Report in its March 2004 issue. The test included: Two-Channel Amps, Arcam Diva A80, Creek A50IR, Roksan Kandy KA-1 MKIII, and Rotel RA-1062; Six-Channel A/V Receivers, Denon AVR-2803, Pioneer VSX-AX3, Sony STR-DB790 (same as USA STR-DA1000ES), and Yamaha RX-V1400RDS . Interestingly, here is what the objective lab test analysis determined for the RX-V1400: Continuous Power Output Two-Channel, 175W/8 ohms; Continuous Power Output Five-Channels driven simultanteously, 107W/8 ohms at 0.015% distortion. In dynamic conditions, the Five-Channel readings were: 210W/8 ohms, 330W/4 ohms, and 380W/2 ohms. The test stated that loads as low as 1 ohm were detected by the Yamaha's protection circuit as a "short" and the protection circuit acted accordingly by shutting down the outputs. The only difference between the U.S.-marketed version and the European versions are the following: European versions have the RDS tuning, configuration for the difference AC mains voltage, and have a captive AC line cord. Otherwise, the preamp, amplifier, and the power supplies are the same.

Thus, it appears that the RX-V1400's power supply is up to the task, and certainly better than that of Yamaha's previous models. BTW . . . Denon's AVR-2803's Five-Channel output with all 5-channels driven simultaneously dropped from its Two-Channel level of 130W/8 ohms to only 36W/8 ohms. Its Dynamic power output was very good however.

I don't often buy one of the European magazines due to their cost here in the States (in this case $9.00), but I found this one interesting, so I bought it for all of the lab test data. Plus, I'm seriously considering the Rotel integrated amp for my audio system.
 

New member
Username: Rud

Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-04
I have a Yamaha RX-V2300, but it's been in for repairs longer than I've had a chance to use it. The centre channel just does not want to work. The volume control knob is falling off. Had it in for repair and got it back after 5 weeks, but it still had the same problem. Very dissapointing. A couple of years ago I went all Yamaha, but unfortunately all but 1 of 5 pieces of Yamaha equipment I have, have been in for repair.
So be very careful about Yamaha. In my experience it has very poor reliability and after sales support. Can't understand why Yamaha send's their equipment to "dodgy brothers repair shops".
 

New member
Username: Lexus0829

Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-04
OCG,

I've heard both the RX-V2400 and the NAD 753,763,773. I dont think the rx-V2400 compares to the sound of the NADs even with the cheaper 753. But the only thing i like with the Yamaha was the amount of features,THX select,YPAO(Yamaha Parametric Room Acoustic Optimizer). The guy from a high end store demonstrated it and it was awesome, it even tells you how far you're speakers are. I guess this was the anticipation for the new Denon 3805, and the Dolby Prologic IIx. You can also check elegantaudiovideo.com , they only sell the yamaha for $749, dont know if theyre an auth. dealer though...hope this helps...
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