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Need receiver like CA 540R.. but with LESS bass!

 

GregN.
Unregistered guest
I am using this Cambridge Audio receiver and it sounds good, but in combination with my bookshelves, which are pretty stout (comfortably going down to 48Hz) .. there's too much bass for my apartment. :-(

My understanding is that this receiver is considered very dynamic.. true? I guess I'm looking for a receiver with rather "anemic" bass. Quite the opposite of what most people are probably looking for, I'm sure. I've already turned down the receiver's bass balance control the maximum allowable 8dB's.. and there's still too much powerful bass output!

Maybe more importantly, I need a receiver with a much higher crossover pt. than the 80Hz one in the 540R. Would that make much of a difference? When I set my speakers to small, I don't even hear a difference w/ the 80Hz setting.

Don't get me wrong, I love the sound of my speakers when running "large", but until I get out of here, I need flexibility to lessen bass output to a greater extent.

I need a receiver with a similar small size/footprint, say, maximum 5" tall and 15" deep. $800 maximum.

SUGGESTIONS?

HELP!


thanks! :-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 265
Registered: Jan-05
Run them as small or buy smaller speakers.

Bookshelves too powerful for ya huh??

heh....sorry.
 

Silver Member
Username: Tevo

Chicago, IL USA

Post Number: 104
Registered: Feb-05
Room acoustics and speaker placement also have a significant impact on bass output.

If you have them stuffed in a against the wall in a corner, it tends to reinforce and exaggerate bass output. If your situation permits, experiment with placement.

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/roomacoustics/index.php

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/roomacoustics/loudspeakerplacement.php

Cheers.
 

GregN.
Unregistered guest
As I said, I'm already running them small. And they're not too powerful for me.. they sound great.. but for my neighbors.. not so great.

If I have to get another set of smaller speakers, I'll do that, but I'm hoping to find a receiver solution for this first.

 

Anonymous
 
It would be possible to cut down the bass by wiring capacitors in series with the speakers.

Have you thought about getting headphones? :-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 268
Registered: Jan-05
Ahhh...neighbors.

Just dont play them so darn loud!! Regardless of what speakers you have, if you crank them up, you get.....ahh...nevermind.
 

Silver Member
Username: Kano

Post Number: 398
Registered: Oct-04
I'm guessing you have your sub set to None, which will send all the bass through the front speakers regardless of having them set to small. You are crossing all frequencies below 80Hz to the LFE channel... which in this set-up would be the front speakers. Set the Sub to LFE and the front left and right speakers to small.
 

GregN.
Unregistered guest
Thanks for the suggestions everyone. And believe me, I wasn't playing them all that loudly (in the mid 70dB range, at most).

I've set the sub button on the receiver to "on" and the fronts to "small", at the default 80Hz crossover, but it doesn't seem to make much difference. Still has that tight, powerful bass punch to it.

I've also got the speakers with 11" of clearance behind and at least 5 ft. open to the left and right, respectively.

Either the walls are thin or the long-time tenants in my building are used to their peace and quiet. I'm assuming it's the lower mid-bass and mid-bass that's seeping through and annoying them???

Headphones? I wish. I've got one bad ear, so they don't work well for me, unless I listen to music with the same mix in both channels.. or if, by chance, there is a way to channel both L/R sides into one earpiece?

Where can I find more info on "wiring capacitors in series", anonymous? How much difference could it potentially make?

Btw, I've located a Sherwood receiver with a max crossover of 130Hz, which is the highest I can find in a reasonably small package. Not sure if that'll be enough to tone it down, but maybe I'll give it a shot.
 

Silver Member
Username: Kano

Post Number: 401
Registered: Oct-04
Ewww... Cambridge Audio to Sherwood.... Can't let you do it man.

Do you have 6 ch. out on your DVD player? If so the Outlaw Audio ICBM Bass Manager can set the crossover to 120 Hz. As well I've found playing through 6 ch. direct to be less bass heavy in general.

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/icbm_about.html
 

Anonymous
 
Wiring a capacitor in series with each speaker can make as much difference as you want it to make.
See this link which will calculate the values which you need to use. Enter the value in ohms and the desired roll-off frequency and read off the capacitor value in the '1st order' section.
For example 8ohms and 200Hz gives 99.4 microfarads

You could also get a mixed bag of electrolytic capapacitors from somewhere like Radio Shack and try out values between 25 and 200 microfarads. You might want to get some soldering stuff and insulation tape while you are there, if you ain't got that sort of thing.
:-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Markusp

Toronto, ON Canada

Post Number: 102
Registered: Apr-04
What speakers are you running? I don't think a higher crossover point is going to help you as what you are describing is bass "bloom" or "boom" which is a condition whereby your speakers are placed too close to the wall and the bass is being reinforced by reflections. 11" is fine for some speakers and not enough for others. Try moving them out temporarily and see if the bass deminishes. Some speakers need a few feet before the bloom effect dissapears. Front ported speakers may be your best bet if this is the case.

Let us know how you make out.
 

GregN.
Unregistered guest
Hey Markus, thanks for chiming in.. (you advised me about this receiver on the avs forum a while back; I'm "cruel_inventions" over there).

The speakers in question are Onix Rocket 250MKII's, which feature 6.5" long throw woofers and a relatively deep 13" cabinet, which from what I understand, contribute to this bookshelf speaker's ability to go down to 48dB. The recommended distance from the wall is 6"-8" minimum, and ideally 12", which is how I've got them positioned now.

I picked up a Onkyo TX-SR502 receiver over the weekend. It has crossover options including 100, 120 & 150, above and beyond the CA 540's 80Hz. Plus, the bass & treble control can be adjusted by as much as +/- 12dB, as opposed to the 540's +/- 8dB.

But even just setting the 100Hz crossover on the Onkyo, typically comined with -2 to -6 on the bass balance, is usually enough to tame these speakers. (With the CA 540R set on 80Hz, and the bass at the -8dB max.. you can still feel strong bass vibrations throughout the floor. In a house, I would be in heaven with the CA 540R, as the bass is so musical and multi-layered on these speakers). In apartment, I need more adjustment control.

Another problem with the 540R is that the receiver reverts bass output to the neutral "0" db setting on the balance control when I play dvds, whereas with the Onkyo, those settings are kept for everything I play.

The sound does seem a little better with the 540R though, but I don't know how much is expectation and bias clouding my judgement. Unless I am able to find a better sounding, dark colored receiver with maximum depth of 15" and crossover options up to 120Hz.. I'll probably stick with this Onkyo.

It's a good thing the Onkyo exists too, as I don't have a SACD/DVD-A dvd player yet, which kills kano's bass mgmt. suggestion, and anonymous's linked suggestion seems a little too involved for me pea brain to handle. (but thanks again guys :-)).


 

Silver Member
Username: Markusp

Toronto, ON Canada

Post Number: 104
Registered: Apr-04
Greg - sorry if my advice was wrong :-( I hope the Onkyo works out better for you in the long run. They are both nice sounding pieces.

Enjoy.

Markus
 

GregN.
Unregistered guest
No, your advice was very good, Markus. Just didn't turn out to be the right match for my room and speakers. I'll revisit CA again when they bring out their next receiver, whenever that turns out to be.

More likely, I'll keep this for 2-4 years and see what's new in digital receivers when I'm ready to upgrade. I'd consider the Panasonic models now, but like the 540R model, they all revert to the default bass/treble tones in certain situations, such as when playing dvds.
 

Silver Member
Username: Markusp

Toronto, ON Canada

Post Number: 105
Registered: Apr-04
Greg - pm me if you are interested in selling the 540R.

Thanks,
Markus
 

GregN.
Unregistered guest
Markus, this receiver is still within it's 30 return period, so I'll be able to return it for full credit. I paid $650 w/ free shipping in case anybody is curious.
 

Silver Member
Username: Smitty

Canada

Post Number: 182
Registered: Dec-03
GregN, I assume the $650 is US dollars?

Markus, I belive you purchased the NAD T752, how do you like it now that you've had it for awhile?

Regards,
Smitty
 

Silver Member
Username: Markusp

Toronto, ON Canada

Post Number: 106
Registered: Apr-04
Hi Smitty. I was on an upgrade warpath at that time and sold the Nad T752 after 6 months to go to separates. I first went to Outlaw which was an improvement for movies but a step backwards for music and then tried a number of different amp and pre pro combinations until I finally ended up with an Anthem AVM 20 and Bryston ST amps.

I'm now building a small bedroom system and will probably buy the Cambridge Audio as I like the sound that much. After hearing the Cambridge and the Nad again, I prefer the Cambridge.

Contemplating a change?

Regards,
Mark
 

GregN.
Unregistered guest
Smitty, yes it was in US dollars, bought from Audio Advisor on a price match. Not their stated policy, but they did it for me in this case.
 

Silver Member
Username: Smitty

Canada

Post Number: 185
Registered: Dec-03
Mark,

Ahh...I'm always contemplating a change or addition ;) I keep thinking about the upcoming Outlaw 1070 receiver...

I was thinking of selling the NAD T742 while I could still get C$400 or so (judging from eBay) for it. I suspect that price will just decline if I wait too long and when it goes out of warranty. There's really nothing wrong with it though, just a bit weak on features that I might need someday. I've also got an older H/K AVR30 pro-logic receiver that seems to be a relatively popular 'classic' unit still fetching US$250 or so. If I sold them both, the CA 540D might be worth a listen --- odds are I'll never add power amps, so the issues you had with using the pre-amp outputs aren't a big concern to me.
 

Silver Member
Username: Markusp

Toronto, ON Canada

Post Number: 107
Registered: Apr-04
Funny thing but I think they fixed the pre outs section. I demoed a new unit a few weeks ago and for fun threw it in as a pre pro with my Brystons to see how it would do against the Anthem. No problems this time with muting etc.

My wife still loves the Cambridge so it will probably have a place in our home once again.

By the way - my friend Jamie who bought my Cambridge still absolutely loves it. Wants to buy my Cambridge dvd player now as well.

Good luck selling your T742. You should have no problem selling it even on Canuckaudiomart. Its a nice sounding unit and for that money, I'd be tempted to just keep it for a second system.

Regards,
Mark
 

Silver Member
Username: Smitty

Canada

Post Number: 186
Registered: Dec-03
Mark,

Thanks for the pointer to canuckaudiomark, I didn't know about that one. Say, would you mind telling me how much lower than the $940 MSRP the CA 540D can be had for?

It'll certainly be hard to part with the T742 and keeping it for a second system just wouldn't get the WAF seal of approval. I'll probably wait until the Outlaw 1070 comes out and see how well it's received.

Regards,
Smitty
 

Silver Member
Username: Markusp

Toronto, ON Canada

Post Number: 108
Registered: Apr-04
Smitty - the lowest I think I've seen the CA540R is $850 plus tax but I think you might even be able to improve on this price. My local dealer is selling me his display model for $800 taxes included so I'm sure there are deals to be had. If I remember correctly, you are in the Ottawa area right? Try emailing Mark at Audioshop.on.ca and see what he can do for you. He feels that the CA540R is a terrific piece and has decent pricing.

Let us know if you pick one up.

Regards,
Mark
 

Silver Member
Username: Smitty

Canada

Post Number: 187
Registered: Dec-03
Mark, yes, I'm in the Ottawa area. I think I may drop by the Audioshop and have a listen to the CA 540D and see what they'll sell it for. They also sell NAD there now, so it would be good to compare with the T742 or T752. I really like the bass and imaging of the NAD but sometimes the highs seem a bit lacking and/or overpowered by the bass.

I probably won't do anything until the Outlaw 1070 arrives and see how they price it. But I'll post back here if I dive in...

Regards,
Smitty
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