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Archive through February 17, 2005

 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2187
Registered: Dec-03
larry! or anyone else.

If your interested in building a project that is fun/easy/rewarding I've done
this in the past and was very pleased, exspecially for the price. "free shipping too"

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-640

I've recently ripped mine apart and built my own xover and replaced the tweeter
with a ribbon/electro. The cabinets are very well made and look quite nice.

In stock form there nice little speakers with a good sound.

I just can't leave anything alone and got a deal on the ribbons.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 588
Registered: Oct-04
Kegman: Yep, I've got the Parts Express catalog, and am toying with the idea of putting new speakers in the old RS cabinet. Sounds like they have some pretty good speakers! Later, perhaps a set of speakers/cabinets for my den. . .

Watched Master and Commander again today (while Mer was away teaching people how to create what some say is art. . .) and thought that my "modded" surrounds did themselves proud. Much better than before - especially for surround effects. Thanks, Kegger, for the help!

I've given up trying to find the Monitor speakers again on eBay. Just don't understand. . .

More anon. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 589
Registered: Oct-04
To all: Wellll - finally learned tonight that, if you use a manufacturer's official picture with your ad - eBay will pull it off the web. Not my ad, but others I was trying to find. Interesting, I guess the copyright issue comes in here.

New CDs from Amazon today - just great! Will review on "Discoveries" in "Music" forum tomorrow.

G-nite and good music!
 

Silver Member
Username: Black_math

Post Number: 210
Registered: Dec-03
John,

It was only the sencond best movie of 2004...now available on DVD. Sideways is #1, of course.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 590
Registered: Oct-04
FINALLY! To all: The B & Ws came this morning, and although the box was scraped up, the speakers inside were in good shape. Although one tweeter cover had been knocked off, I replaced it with no damage. The cabinets are in perfect shape.

Right now, they're being "run in" with some of my favorite chamber music. Cellos sound like cellos,pianos like pianos - and that upper range "harshness" that I felt with the other speakers is not there.

I'll be interested to see how the speakers "run in" after a day or so. I e-mailed the seller to ask him how much use the speakers had - and await his reply on that. From what I understand, these speakers need at least 100 hours of run-in time before they "settle down." Any comments?

Meanwhile, the Polks have met my reserve (minimum) amount on eBay - and we'll see what the final days of the auction bring.

Mer is happy with the B & Ws - WHEW! - although she says the cabinets are sorta "weird." Well, they ARE odd-shaped, but I love them dearly! Thanks to all forum-members for putting up with my whining and wistfulness, etc., whilst the speakers were on their way! (grin)

Ghia - you were very right in that the B & Ws make a perfect match with the NAD! As though the two were made for each other. Strange, but I hear none of the "boxiness" now that I heard with them in the showroom. Probably a major difference in room acoustics? Hmmm. . . I can see why you like your B & Ws!!!

More anon. . . ah, sweet, clear music. . . . .
 

Bronze Member
Username: Asimo

Post Number: 49
Registered: Apr-04
Larry R

Congratulations for the new B&W speakers. I think that NAD is well matched with many other British speakers. My NAD is going better with my British Mission 751 speakers then my Italian aristocrats Sonus Faber Concertino's speakers.
The question to ask is what did the Polk Audio search at an audiophile and operas enthusiast house.
Enjoy the new speakers and send us comments
 

Bronze Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 61
Registered: Jan-05
Congrats, Larry! It's nice to hear you are happy with the B&W's, so far. Your description of the B&W's sounding 'boxy' from your past audition was the most surprising comment to me at the time because they have always seemed very open to me. My B&W's are in my office paired with the NAD c350 and c541i.

Asimo,

I have not heard the NAD 7000 or the Mac 1700 so I can only say that I prefer the MAC MA6200 to the NAD T763 and c350. I'm very interested in hearing your opinion once you get a chance to do the audition.

Yes, the Spendor model I have is S5e. Due to being out of town and having a busy schedule the past few days I haven't gotten to listen to them closely since Friday night.

Asimo, did you receive the email I sent a week or so ago?
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1378
Registered: Aug-04
Larry,

All's well that ends well! I thought something smelled a little fishy there for a while and was anticipating some bad news. Anyway, congrats on the speakers. I'm sure Mer and yourself will have many years of musical pleasure ahead.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2792
Registered: Dec-03
Larry,

I thought the same as My Rantz, and it is good to learn you have the speakers at last. I would leave the tweeters in....!

Ben,

Thanks for the recommendation. Will remember that.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 591
Registered: Oct-04
John A. - tweeters in - and here are the B&Ws, at home with the NAD and Yammie. A-OK, folks!

Upload
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 592
Registered: Oct-04
And one more shot from the "proud papa." (blush)

Upload
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 593
Registered: Oct-04
John A. et al - the speaker stands, by the way, are British - Alphason AD50s - Just started US distribution, and the chap in Texas said I was the first "Yank" to purchase them. Sorta expensive, but very solid.
There's a tempered glass bass with spikes thru-carpet, and a vertical steel tube in which is poured some sort of aggregate supplied by the company. A second channel snakes the speaker wire up inside. They're 20-inches tall. and heavy. . .
In case anybody's interested. . .
 

Bronze Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 62
Registered: Jan-05
That's a sharp looking setup there, Larry! Probably sounds like crap, though....just kidding! It's neat how the speaker cabinets coordinate so well with your a/v cabinet. The only suggestion I would make is to replace the TV with a flat panel HDTV in a finish to coordinate with the speaker stands. <wink>
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2189
Registered: Dec-03
SM I agree with that setup it screems plasma, would look very nice!


Larry nice setup now get those babies broke in would yu! wink wink nudge nudge!



Oh yes, ask SM about how she feels concerning the smaller speaker and a sub!
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 806
Registered: Dec-03
Larry and Mer,

A simple wish. May you both listen in good health.

Cheers!
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 594
Registered: Oct-04
SM, Kegger and Rick B. - (SOB SOB SOB-sniffle) Oh, how I'd LOVE a flat-screen TV! But do you have any idea what my checking account looks like about now? (grin) Sad, sad tale.

OK - this one's for all of you. It's from a "this absolutely can't work, but does," OK?

The B & Ws are wunnerful - BUT. The high frequencies still seemed a bit on the shrill side. Sum-ting's wrong, I said. Then I remembered what some of y'all - and others - had written about those metal jumpers between woofer and tweeter posts.

I'd e-mailed B&W - and actually got a very nice, polite and helpful return! Nobody else returns my e-mails out there in manufacturer-land!

After all the input - here's what I did. I took the cabinets apart, and took out the tweeters. . .
NO, NO, NO, NO! JUST KIDDING, GUYZ-N-GAL!!

Here's what I DID DO. First, took out the metal bridge-plates - set them aside. Then I cut pieces of the Blue Jeans cable 10AWG wire so that they just fit between the posts. Stripped off about a half-inch either end, and coated it with my wunnerful Silver Glop Grease. Carefully aligned the wire, using needlenose pliers, then tightened down the gold binding posts. So far, so good.

Then I cleaned off the banana plugs at the end of the Blue Jeans Cable speaker wire, applied a tiny amount of the silver glop, and plugged them in. My, the "mod" looked great! (blush)

Turned on the receiver and player and let both warm up for a few minutes (they'd been playing for hours earlier this morning)

Well, I'll be durned! The sound - I swear - was sweeter and smoother. I was playing an older Beethoven violin concerto, which was sorta strident to begin with, and the difference in sound was very pleasing to me.

OK - have I been tilting too many single-malt scotch glasses? Is my hearing totally gone? Am I delusional? All of the above?

Answers - comments - criticisms - all welcome about now. Please. . .

And Ghia - if this has worked as well for me as I THINK it has, may I humbly suggest you do the same with your B & Ws? Worth a try.

Looking forward to bricks and comments. . .
 

Bronze Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 63
Registered: Jan-05
Larry,

I'm not dissatisfied with my B&W's. <winkie,>

Just kidding. I'm planning on doing some tweaks. For the living room system, I'm ordering Mapleshade Golden Helix speaker cable. The Spendors already have a wire type humper instead of the brass plate but I may replace that with a Mapleshade jumper. Or, I may biwire them. For the B&W's, I'll stick with the speaker cables I have but will replace the brass plate.



 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest


Uh, Larry, um, uh, ... where's the center channel speaker? I thought you were buying a real nice stereo this time.

My suggestion would be to explore speaker set up for those times when Mer's not at home. You can seldom get the type of response out of a speaker like the B&W when it is backed up against the wall. By pulling the speakers out into about the first 1/3 of the room, you should get an obvious difference in the soundstaging and the smoothness of the sound. If you haven't put any PlastiTak between the speakers and the stand, that would be my first move.

Here's an article to get you started:

http://www.immediasound.com/Speaker_set-up.htm

I would suggest you put "speaker set up" into a search engine and read a bit before you make your final decision. The sepakers do not have to remain in this position, but I would think you'll find enough improvement that it will be worth moving the speakers occasionally.




 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 808
Registered: Dec-03
Larry,

Replacing the supplied jumper plates is a standard tweak that will give immediate sonic improvement. If it sounds good to you, who cares what anyone thinks. We're all slightly off center anyway.......LOL!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 64
Registered: Jan-05
Jan,

Thanks for that link. Interesting information. Based on first reading, my current setup would appear to "violate" most of the suggestions starting with the fact the speakers are placed along the short wall instead of the long wall. I need to rethink my room/furniture/audio layout and try to come up with an alternative configuration.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 595
Registered: Oct-04
Jan V. - sorry, old chap, but no center speaker for me. Tried it, and thought it was of little value to me - personally.

Thanks for the info and the link - I'm trying to move speakers around a bit - but so far I pretty much like them where they are - plus, I don't have a lot of extra cable!

Kegger - I've been working the speakers all day, with everything from jazz to opera - loud, soft, in-between, etc. So far I don't see much improvement or change - but then these puppies are apparently nearly brand-new. When even the B&W company says "up to a month" to break in the Kevlar woofers, well, I gotta believe 'em.

I't kinda nice to know that, for once, I have a quality stereo setup. My last one, which I sold so we could "go boating," was Kef 104/2 speakers with Carver amp, pre-amp and tuner, and a kinda sub, called a "Kef Kube." Still miss that Carver, but the NAD takes its place very nicely!

Thanks all for the comments and info. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 811
Registered: Dec-03
SimplyMcIntosh,

I will be very interested in your opinion of the Mapleshade Golden Helix cable. I went with the Mapleshade a few years ago, and think it's great.
What are you using now?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 65
Registered: Jan-05
Rick,

I'm using 14ga speaker cable from Parts Express. Bought a 100' roll of it when I was setting up the surround system last summer. It is very cumbersome to use with the spring clips of the MA6200. I think the Mapleshade will be a better quality cable and will "play nice" with the spring clips too. :-)

This will be another of my infamous "read about it, haven't heard it, will try it anyway" experiments.

I haven't ordered it yet but will probably do so this weekend.

 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 812
Registered: Dec-03
Trust me, your Spendors are in for a real treat. So are your ears. It is going to look like nothing you have seen before in speaker wire, but the sound will be a night and day improvement.

Cheers!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 66
Registered: Jan-05
Couple of observations about the speaker placement recommendations from Jan's link;

1. In my current configuation, I have a 12'x19' room and the speakers are on the short wall.

2. My current layout distances are as follows:

Speakers from back wall = 2'
Speakers from sidewalls = 2' (on left side....right speaker is in front of door opening leading into hall)
Distance between speakers = 8'
Speakers to listening position = 12'
Ears to wall = 5.5'

3. If I draw the room map per the recommendations and place the speakers per the short wall recommendation, the distances change to this:

Speakers from back wall = 9.5'
Speakers from sidewalls = 3' (on left side....right speaker is in front of door opening)
Distance between speakers = 6'
Speakers to listening position = 7'
Ears to wall = 5.5'

Does that sound right? Even if I've done this right on paper, I have to figure out that pesky little problem of furniture being right where the optimal location for the speakers is. Hmmm....
 

Bronze Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 67
Registered: Jan-05
BTW, the above is following the recommendation of having listening position at line 2 and the speakers at B1 and B3. I'm investigating some of the other positions right now.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1387
Registered: Aug-04
Sim,
I'm no expert but #3 looks okay to me as it is close to an equilateral triangle configuration, but I don't believe there is really any hard and fast rule. Room acoustics come into play, wall and floor materials, furnishings, number of boyfriends etc etc. What do YOU like! That's what matters.

"I'm investigating some of the other positions right now."

You could have a priest come and bless your speakers - you know what position that would be don't you?

:-)

 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 596
Registered: Oct-04
SM - good luck with the expensive speaker wire. When Mer and I did our exhaustive testing, we really could not hear the difference between the $300-a-yard wire and the 10-gauge Blue Jeans Cable wire.

Rick probably has more acute hearing than I do, but all I can say is that I hope you DO hear a major improvement with the Mapleshade wire. If so, give me a shout, and I might have to re-consider my sit-in-the-mud position on mega-buck wire! You may remember that I took some forum-folks' advice and bought heavy brass cones to put under the CD player. All they did - in my opinion - was to raise it up off the shelf! Hmm. . .sonic improvement? Nope. IMHO

Even the chap at B & W urged me to remove what he called the "alloy" jumpers on the 705s. He said the 10AWG wire should make for a nearly-bi-wire situation there. I "think" there is a difference, but I'm so skeptical that I hate to admit that my tweaks work! How's that for confidence!

My speakers are set up along a "long" wall - they're just under 2 feet out from the wall - and spaced 8 feet apart. I sit on the couch to listen, and am 11 feet from the speakers. That seems to work for me - and I guess I really have little desire to do a "speaker waltz" around the room.

More anon. . .
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

http://www.mhsoft.nl/SpeakerPlacing.asp


 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/waspe.html

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/speakerplacement.html

 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

http://www.goodwinshighend.com/roomdesi.htm


 

Bronze Member
Username: Asimo

Post Number: 50
Registered: Apr-04
Larry R

Saw the picture of your new B&W, they are beautiful. I am sure your wife loves them and I hope she likes the music too. My wife loves my Italian style Sonus Faber concertino's speakers but not the music. Anyhow I have my private music room for me alone.
High shrill of modern speakers is a common phenomena. The manufacturers want their speakers and amplifiers to be revealing and to give exact sound spectrum from 20hz to 20000hz, you end with bright or even shrill high's
I have some recommendation to reduce this effect:
Improve the room acoustic, fill it with more items, furniture, rugs, wall carpets, curtains, books. Cover or close curtains of large glass windows or glass doors.
Try different location of the speaker. Move them closer to the side walls, up to 50 cm from the side wall. We tend to think that speakers must be 1.5 m -2.5 m apart but from my experience you get a better sound and stereo effect from small, two way speakers when they are closer to the side wall.
Check your source. Many of the new DVD players are not musical. They were created for movies and bombs. Try a musical CD player like NAD C542 or Arcam 72 or other and listen to the high's
Hope this will be of some aid. What model is your Yamaha DVD Player ?



 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 597
Registered: Oct-04
Asimo: Thanks for the tips and other information, sir! My wife actually thinks the B&Ws are "funky," and calls them "R-1 D-1" in reference to the Star Wars robot R-2 D-2, which she says they resemble. Hmmm. . .

As to the Yamaha - it is model 5770, same as the S1500, only silver, not black. Yamaha said it had designed this player with sound in mind first, a video second. I find it quite musical - especially after my disastrous JVC unit, which a British reviewer called "wince-worthy." Ouch!

I'm told that both my tweeter and woofer will "settle down" after 50 hours or more of playing, and so I try to run-in the speakers by playing them most of the day. My listening area is not so much "live" as it is "large." Big, open area that goes living room-kitchen-front hall, and has very high, sloped ceiling. It's a tough room for stereo - but I continually change wall hangings and other things to dampen the liveness.

Lucky you that you have your own music room! My dear wife is, unfortunately, a TV addict in the evenings, and thus on most nights the music stops about dinner time. If I could only get those six numbers right on the Lottery! (grin)

SM - been reading up on the Mapleshade wire. My Goodness! They make it sound like a maiden's answer to her call for a Prince on a White Horse! (grin) I hope that you find a difference to your liking. Forgive me, though, if I'm skeptical. I've e-mailed a friend out West, asking him to return some of the hi-end wire he originally sent to us for a test last year. The test was with "old" equipment, and I'll be interested to see any differences - if any - using all of my new-and-better gear. I know he's got Kimber, but I can't remember Mapleshade. So, Ghia, I count on you for an accurate review once you get the Mapleshade stuff.

More anon. . .
 

Bronze Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 68
Registered: Jan-05
Larry,

I'll reread your post once I'm fully awake. But, if I understand the basic gist, you are under the impression this is an outrageously expensive wire. It's not. It's $85 for two 8ft runs. That works out to $5.31 per foot or $15.93 a yard to stay consistent with your example. Still more expensive than the Blue Jeans cable and the Parts Express cable but not as expensive as your impression and probably slightly less than MR's Kimber Kable.

Got to get caffeine.......
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 598
Registered: Oct-04
SM - no, what I meant to convey was that the cables - to some - seem to be a great gift of sound, "answer to a person's prayer," that sort of thing. I already knew the cost, and did not mean to imply that you or anyone else was getting gouged by the Mapleshade folk.

In fact, if you hear "marked" improvement in sound, I might even consider the wires myself.

Well, Mer got up on wrong side of the bed this ayem, and when I started talking about cables, she pointedly asked if I could really hear any difference in the "mod" that I did on the B&Ws yesterday. Sigh.

Well, says I, have you got about 10 minutes? Sure, she said, but then you've got to shoot some digital pics for me to enter in a Monday art show take-in. Ok, says I. Here we go.

As the tweak involved my replacing the "alloy" straps with straight sections of Blue Jeans wire, it was very easy to switch them out - which I did.

Using the same chamber music CD that we play often, I sat her down in the sofa, and then as quickly as I could, switched back and forth. At least a dozen times.

End of test and Mer said - "so, you did something? I couldn't tell any difference." End of test, and I let her return to her studio. Sigh. With her super-ears, I thought sure she might tell a difference. I "thought" I heard a difference. Maybe not. Probably not. Surely not. Nope. Guess not. Double sigh.

this shows to go you that all things stereo are not as they may seem! (grin)

. . .and have a nice day, OK??? (grrrrrrr)(grin)
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 814
Registered: Dec-03
JFTWC

Author/playwright Arthur Miller passed away today at age 89.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 599
Registered: Oct-04
Rick: Thank you - yes, a sad day. He was certainly a creative force, wasn't he? so many of our "giants" are going or have gone recently. Starting to feel lonely. . .
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1389
Registered: Aug-04
Larry,

Maybe the "no difference" when alternating the jumpers for cable was due to (a) the music (b) the inductance quality of the jumpers, or (c) a recognition blocking process brought on by a bad mood :-)

The difference I noticed was not as much as the cable change, but it was perceivable and the bi-wiring was about the same again. So switching the jumpers with cable, exchanging the old 10g wire for Kimber, and bi-wiring all added to a marked improvement across the frequencies. About the best way I could descibe the difference would be thus:

Let's say the the sound quality was originally represented by 100

Switching cable + 6
Switching jumper + 2
Bi-wiring + 2

The Kimber 8pr cable cost $15 AUD per meter. 10g oxy free clear skinned cable ranged from around $7 to $17 AUD per meter. I don't think one could say I went overboard on exotic cables, but the exercise does make me wonder about even better performance using Kimber's (or another brand) more expensive cable as the $15 per metre was well spent in my opinion.

BTW - if those 705's sound as good as they look you're a lucky guy.

Just one other thing Larry - apart from the lower and mid frequency improvements, the top end now sounds extremely accurate and clean. Cymbals sound like cymbals i.e. like sticks hitting REAL brass with the resulting timbre making the instuments sound like they are in the room. Trumpets and saxes crackle and resonate with astounding realism. Some may call this 'bright' or 'too forward' - me, I call it real. But, everyone is different in what appeals to them - many people prefer a 'muted' top end. If you (or Mer) find the metal dome tweeters "too forward" then the 705's won't be your audio nirvana after all. I hope this is not the case.

 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 600
Registered: Oct-04
My Rantz: A coupl-ah points, please. First, regarding this morning's Mer-test. For the first time, I had to disagree with her - gently, natch! I thought the change in jumpers did make a difference - a tad smoother sound, if you will.

Now - as to the metal dome tweeters. Yep - they're taking some getting-used-to, for sure. Let me see if I can explain - they do sound very "sharp," and sometimes I get the feeling they are over-balancing the woofer. BUT - the highs that come out of those tweeters are so clear that, unlike my last speakers, they are not "fatiguing" to the ears. Yes, they are forward - no, they are not such a problem that they "ruin" my listening.

I have been told - or read reports - by many people that these metal-dome tweeters will often "mellow-out" after some 75 to 100 hours. If that's so, then I'll be happy.

The woofer is another story. Even the B & W guy kindly said not to be concerned about some "rough edges" with the new speakers. He advised that about 300 hours would work them in so they would be smoother, and that the low frequencies would "show through" better then. Hmmm. . .

As to cable - I'm hoping that my comments to SimplyMcIntosh this morning were not taken as criticsm of her spending money on cables! Wasn't meant that way at all - so sorry if I came across that way.

My personal history with cables has been that I really can't tell much difference. Except that I did hear quite a difference between 16awg store-brand wire and the Blue Jeans 10AWG that I have. If others - including you, MR - hear a sonic difference then I envy you. At my age (68) people tell me I'm lucky to be hearing any high frequencies at all! But I do. . .(grin)

So MR and SM - nope, I'm not saying either one of you went "overboard" on cable expense. OK?

I think Kegger was quite correct in urging me to keep working to "burn in" the speakers. And Kegger, I'm really trying! (I know - very trying somedays - grin) I switch on the stereo about 8 a.m. and it runs pretty continuously until dinner hour - roughly 6:30 p.m. I try to boost the volume when Mer's not around - loudness makes her crazy. We'll see what happens after, oh say another week.

SM - I believe you and I are in the same boat here, with the speaker run-ins? How's your experience with the Spendors coming? do you notice any difference yet? Or is it simply too soon to tell? Curious, that's me. . .

MR - as to looks - well, I think the B & Ws are utterly wonderful. However. . .Mer thinks they're sorta strange and as I posted earlier, she calls them "R-1 D-1" robots. Sigh. WAF - huh? What's dat? That's what I get for marrying a gal who grew up on farms - if stuff isn't simple and functional she thinks it's over-the-top. Maybe speakers disguised as a milking machine? Hmmm. . .now there's a thought! (grin)

Enough jabber by me - I'm going in to put my new Paul Desmond CD on the player - and zone out awhile. (yes, with Scotch in hand!)

Latr, folks. . .
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1390
Registered: Aug-04
Larry,

Didn't take it that you were accusing us of going overboard on the wire - just stating there was no need.

I find also that while our speakers are crisp and accurate in the top end they are not the least bit fatiguing also. At least with the tweaks you have either implemented already or may do soon, they are reversible if they cause unwanted prescence and they won't cost you the earth (only a little of Mer's ire maybe):-)

I believe you have much listening pleasure to look forward to. Cheers.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 601
Registered: Oct-04
My Rantz: Mer is forgiving, in her own way. (grin) She is so happy that I'm doing the stereo upgrades and enjoying the music that any and all disagreements take a very, very "back seat" in our relationship. No fights. No shouting. No nasty jibes. Just occasional "disagreements."

Thanks for the Cheers and the support. I would so dearly love to come and visit your fascinating country. And when - not IF - I win the lottery, I intend to do so. One of my many dreams. . .

OK - on to a simple dinner of fresh salmon baked with a hint of tarragon, lemon and mixed pepper, and some fine fresh asparagus - with sliced tomatoes under a very thin veil of blue cheese dressing. And on to a bit of vanilla bean ice cream topped with just a hint of blackberry liquor. Simple, but good. . .

More anon. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 602
Registered: Oct-04
PS - the "mixed pepper" referenced above is a mix of white, rose, green and black peppercorns - and not a bunch of fresh peppers. FYI
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1391
Registered: Aug-04
I was only kidding about Mer and I know you both have a great relationship - we are both very fortunate in that respect. You and Mer 'down under' great stuff! We hope our 'lotto' win takes us to Florida and many other parts of North America.

Good food, good music and great company - Larry, you have it all my friend!

I will be sampling some of your food tips - so keep 'em coming (ah the aroma!) please.

 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 604
Registered: Oct-04
My Rantz and other music lovers. I received an e-mail from a chap today - who saw earlier references to the song: "Chickery Chick. . ." on this forum, and wanted the lyrics.

Well, that started me off on a research project that John A. or Jan V. would be proud of - and finally found the words to the 1945 song. For anyone who's interested:
- - - - - - - -
Chickery Chick
Sammy Kaye (#1 in 1945)
- words by Sylvia Dee, music by Sidney Lippman

Once there lived a chicken who would say "chick-chick"
"Chick-chick" all day
Soon that chick got sick and tired of just "chick-chick"
So one morning he started to say:

"Chickery chick, cha-la, cha-la
Check-a-la romey in a bananika
Bollika, wollika, can't you see
Chickery chick is me?"

Every time you're sick an tired of just the same old thing
Sayin' just the same old words all day
Be just like the chicken who found something new to sing
Open up your mouth and start to say
Oh!

"Chickery chick, cha-la, cha-la
Check-a-la romey in a bananika
Bollika, wollika, can't you see
Chickery chick is me?"

- - - - - - - - -
See - there's a LOT of kulture on this forum!
BTW, Rantz, the salmon came out perfect, and the blackberry liquor added just the right touch to end the meal with aplomb ( as opposed to a plum).

Now I know somebody's gonna make a badee out of "aplomb," so I gird my loins for the onslaught! (grin)

Tomorrow night's fare will be a tad lighter: roasted chicken with a cranberry/orange glaze, some fine, small Brussels sprouts, and a tossed salad with (I know - again!) balsamic vinaigrette dressing. This with a chilled Pinot Grigio wine. Followed by a bit of brandy and some ginger snaps.

If you do the sprouts, I suggest steaming them, and then only to the point where a fork punctures them. Cook them too long and you have bitter mush! I either steam or boil them, drain them, then add butter and just a hint of ground nutmeg. Also some salt to taste. (salt tends to sweeten the sprouts)

I try to find sprouts about 3/4 inch (about 2 cm.) in diameter. The larger the tougher, and harder to cook evenly.

 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

I had a couple o' Budweisers with sardines in oil and some saltines. Dessert was a smoked herring roll mop and another Bud.

More, brrrrrrrrrp, anon!


 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1396
Registered: Aug-04
Good work however:

Larry was that Sammy Kaye or Danny Kaye - the 's' being right next to the 'd' on the keyboard and all?

:-)
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1398
Registered: Aug-04
Never heard of Sammy Kaye - but I wonder If he was the Sam when someone heard him sing Chickery Chick and said, "Play it again Sam!"

Coincidence: I had tomatoe (english) and cheese on saltines for lunch and a big glass of cold milo - wife had to work today - on a saturday too!
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 606
Registered: Oct-04
Jan V. - that's not eating - that's torture! (grin)

MR - You're too young for Sammy Kaye - and good for you! Now - I GOTTA ask, Sir Rantz - please, what is "Milo?"

Sure your wife is working and not out hunting me? (grin)
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 607
Registered: Oct-04
OOPS - everybody - to be sure you understand the last line in my posting to MR - please refer to his comments on my blonde joke on Old Dogs and Their Jokes. Don't want any misunderstandings here! (grin)
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Awoke this morning to Cheerios and a nanner! Nanner, nanner, bobanner.


 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 822
Registered: Dec-03
One of the new flavors, or the original Cheerios, Jan?
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2806
Registered: Dec-03
Then we have the whole question regarding free trade in nanners; France, EU, Algeria, etc. Sprouts are less of a problem. But not so good for breakfast. Just an opinion, of course.
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest
John, we agreed we wouldn't get into politics and how the free market approach is driving the small farmer ... Never mind. Fair trade or free market, you choose. Veggies and sprouts go on the tater and egg burritos for breakfast. They take a bit of time to prepare and so are not done as often as opening the cabinet with the little O's in a box. The cereal does require lactose free dairy, however.

I stick mostly to the original and still quite good O's, but have found the MultiGrain to be a tasty treat on occasion. HoneyNut has too much sucrose. I have a problem with anything that contains blue O's.


Fe, fi, fo, fanner.




 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2808
Registered: Dec-03
...I smell the blood of a.....?

Sorry for the politics. Let us stay free of it, as lactose, and avoid such things as Condolina Rice Pudding. "Taters; rare ballast for an empty belly" - Samwise Gamgee.

Jan, I am vacillating about committing myself to FRED*. It is a big decision. Mrs A approves; my WAF is not as other WAFs. If we must make the decision alone, then so be it . But you are the sage around here.... Any views? Valves/tubes will still be there in a month or so. These particular FREDs will not; I would have to start looking again. Guess I am looking for reassurance, the fuel of this forum.

*For those not in the know: "Full Range Electrostatic Design".
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 609
Registered: Oct-04
All: After a near-fatality on the stage, and a near-collision on the highway, we made it back safely from the Sarasota Opera Sunday. Two close calls, which I'll post about this eve.

First, though - (GASP) - at the urging of Kegger, John A., Jan V., Ghia, and seemingly everybody else, Mer and I are "thinking about" a subwoofer for our system. We'd use the Polk sale money to start with.

Mer says no "huge black boxes" and I would like some cherry wood - BUT - in researching the issue, I keep returning to one of the New "baby subs" on the market. I'd like your collective comments, please.

- - - - - - - - -

http://www.orbaudio.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=8

- - - - - - - - -

These sound like just the ticket for us - even though the cabinet is (sigh) black. Which Mer hates.

We can't spend more than $500 at any rate - so any thoughts of your expensive rigs are just so much wasted print.

The B&Ws seem to be "loosening up" just a tad, but after hearing that opera orchestra live yesterday, we realize how much music we really are missing!

thanks for any and all comments. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 825
Registered: Dec-03
Larry,

If you feel you MUST have a subwoofer, I suggest you look at the HSU line. They are in the price range you desire, and have always gotten good reviews. Check out the STF-2 and the VTF-2MK2. They are sold on line factory direct.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 611
Registered: Oct-04
Rick: Thanks for the suggestions - yep, I've been given the Hsu name before, with great recommendations.

Too tired to recount the opera saga tonight - will post tomorrow.

Happy Valentine's Day to all. . .
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

I'd look into either the Hsu or one of B&W's own.



 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 612
Registered: Oct-04
Jan. V. - yep, thanks, am doing so now.

To all: as threatened. We went to the Sarasota opera Sunday - Cavalliera Rusticana and I Pagliacci paired, because both are short.

Anyway - in the last scene of Pagliacci, Canio, who plays the lead, stabs to death his wife, who has been cheating on him. Then he turns the knife on the wife's lover, who has come to her aid during her fight with Canio. Well, Canio stabs the lover, also. Fine, except there was a bit of a problem on stage.

Nedda, the wife, fell down sorta crosswise on the stage. Then, when the lover is stabbed, he's SUPPOSED to crumple slowly to the ground. Problem was that there was a small ramp going upstage at the fight scene, and the lover's foot caught on the edge of it.

Instead of crumpling slowly, he did a hard prat-fall - and we, in the audience, thought he was going to land right on Nedda's head! There was a GASP from the audience, and the singers on stage froze.

WHOMP! down came the lover - who is about 6-2 and roughly 260 pounds. He missed the woman, who is very small. But only by about four inches. I quickly focused my binoculars, and yes, had he been about four inches closer, the young woman would surely be dead.

A reporter for a local newspaper happened to be there, and interviewed several Opera folk, who allowed as how that was too close, and that the fight scene was being re-staged. Whew. . .

Well, we left the opera for the 2-hour ride home - my good friend Jerry behind the wheel. We were about half-way home when a pickup truck passed up. In the bed of the truck were a huge couch and a big overstuffed chair.

The truck got past, and was about four car-lengths in front of us when WHAM! Suddenly the air was full of huge objects, hurling right toward us! I screamed, and Jerry slammed on the brakes and pulled toward the roadside.

The couch and chair had come out of their strappings, and hit the road at about 80 MPH. What hit us were the cushions - the heavy wood frames slammed into the pavement and disintegrated. But, had one of those wood pieces come through our windshield. . . .

A close call, and we were pretty shaken up. Got home, and the next morning Jerry's wife calls in tears. Jerry is in the hospital - heart attack. Now - after all of that - can I safely say that "opera may be dangerous to your health?" YEP!

And a good day to all. . .
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest
A good reason to stick to folk music with acoustic instruments, Larry. It was when Dylan went electric that the riot almost began.

Quite a story. I'm certain we all wish your friend the best. I know the feeling you had. It's one thing to have an object come at you that has someone in even partial control; the totally freewheeling piece is frightening. I remember driving 70 mph and having the hood of my car fly open to a 90 degree angle to the car. Steering to the side of the road with just the small slit of visibility provided between the hood and the car body was an adventure.

Restaging the scene, eh? Knowing well the deftness with which most actors ply their trade, the fault was probably laid upon the technician who placed the piece of masking tape on the floor in front of the ramp. Actors can ususally manage ramps; it's the masking tape that screws them up.

Give your friend our best wishes.


 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 615
Registered: Oct-04
Jan. V. - thanks, will do. Your story sounds equally as harrowing! Whew! And yes - some nice, acoustic music is playing right now. Sigh.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2205
Registered: Dec-03
larry my list of subs are as follows.

SVS - HSU - REL as the upper quality but not ubber expensive subs.

Then Velodyne would be my choice for bang for the buck!
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest


I haven't heard the low priced Velodyne's for a few years, but their low end product always used to suffer from the one note problem we've discussed. Big drivers, small boxes, big ports and lots of EQ in the amp. Maybe they've changed as the company has become more successful. They're worth a listen at least.


 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 828
Registered: Dec-03
Larry,

Ditto the best wishes, and a speedy recovery.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2208
Registered: Dec-03
The velodyne subs are not in the catagory with the others I agree with jan.

But I also feal with them you get what you pay for and some are very nice.
May well do what you want for the price you want to spend larr!
But as jan said evaluation would be best.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 616
Registered: Oct-04
Kegger et al - yeah, I know that I'm trying to get something that I probably can't afford - again.

The Velodyne I'm looking at retails at $1,300, so it's not really "low-end," I don't think.

The liddle Orb just sounded like a good deal, but then again it only has a 150-watt amp - the Velodyne has a 1,000-watt amp in it. If you haven't read about the Velodyne SPL1000 II, it might interest you.

I don't want a down-firing unit - and Mer says no way to any of those 18-inch high, 15-inch wide boxes. Sigh. Sooooo. . .

Meanwhile - my friend had only a "mild" heart problem, and is resting comfortably in the cardiac unit - while docs do a thousand tests. I talked to him on the phone, and he sounds rather positive. Thanks to y'all for the words of encouragement and cheer.

The problem that I'm having with the B&W is one of balance. The speakers have fine mid and upper range sound - but to get the lower notes to "play" means turning up the volume to the point where it's almost painful - and Mer starts really getting on me for "noise pollution." I e-mailed B&W with my concern, but haven't yet heard back from them.

As I haven't shipped the other speakers yet, I hooked them up and - to my dismay - found that they put out more bass than the B&Ws do. So now I'm back to turning up the bass knob 4 db - which I really don't want to do. Sigh. I'm hoping that, like some other speakers, the bass response improves after some more run-in time.

Kegger - you're the "speaker guy" - have you heard anything about my problem before? I do NOT want or expect "booming bass" - but even the lower notes on the piano just don't come through very loudly. And yes, I've got the speakers set to "large," so it's not a receiver cut-off situation here.

I think I need to just shut up and see what happens! I'm about as tired of whining as youze guyz are of hearing me! (double grin)

Away to "sundowners" and some elixir to soothe the mental anguish.

More anon. . .

 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 617
Registered: Oct-04
Jan V. - read about the Velodyne in question right here, if you wish.

http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/products/product.aspx?ID=7&sid=304y605d

And have a fine evening, all!
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2210
Registered: Dec-03
Larry I really believe for "you" a sub is in order!
Really and truly think so!

You could mess with placement of the speakers.
moving them closer to the wall/corner or even ground should improve the bass.

velodyne makes much less expensive subs too, even ones you can purchase
from abc warehouse. I would seriously be looking at subs. If I had your speakers
I'm sure I'd want a sub to fill them out! I have to have that bass or for me I
feal I'm missing something and will never be happy with the speaker.

It's a personal taste thing and maybe your like me, if I don't have floor stander's
with fairly large or multiple smaller bass drivers I need a sub! period!

See if you can get a loaner from some where. friend/shop
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 619
Registered: Oct-04
Kegger - thanx - as always. You are wise beyond your years! I've tried moving the B & Ws, but it doesn't seem to make much difference. I suppose a corner would help - but I don't have any within "wire range" of the stereo setup.

I'm hoping - first - that the B&W bass improves with break-in. If not - well, you're right, a sub is a must-have. sigh.

More anon - but first - Sundowners!!! Ahhhhhhhh. .
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1406
Registered: Aug-04
Larry,

Good to know your friend will be okay. Regarding your 705's, you'll notice that the recommended amp power is from 50w to 150w (If I recall correctly) thus it needs a little more power to get it going than some - mine for example 20w to 150w. Don't be too concerned with the sub power, while important, you don't need 1000wts (that's likely to be a digital amp). Our room is 25' X 22' with ceilings sloping 12' to 18' and our sub is front firing 10inch with a measley 100w amp and it is enough to do the job well musically and for movies. Too large a cone is often not best for music - the smaller 10" to 12" have better timing properties for music I believe, but I'm no expert.

I haven't had much time to be here the past couple of days as we also had a very traumatic experience on V day. Almost lost my 81 year old father. He fell over the retaining wall in his yard (6ft high) onto his face. My hysterical mother phoned me to call an ambulance and get over there. She was too distraught to give any info so I was fearing the absolute worst. I actually felt relieved when I arrived on the scene. The ambulance guys had him sitting, blood was every where, and the top covering of his nose from the eyeline to the base was hanging off, he was almost scalped and had other cuts and bruises and a suspect neck pain.

To make matters worse, it was only Jan 13th when he had a flap operation on his nose to remove a cancer so you can imagine their concern. He is okay and recovering after a 2hr operation. His plastic surgeon seems to have done a fairly good patch job - considering. Neck seems okay too. He will take a while to get over this as will my poor invalid mother. This is too much for over 80's to cope with. I will pop in now and again but will be busy helping my parents the next few days and so forth?

 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 829
Registered: Dec-03
Thoughts and prayers will be with you, Rantz.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 620
Registered: Oct-04
My Rantz: Good grief, my friend! What a horrible thing to happen! Mer and I send prayers and hopes for a full recovery - and for all involved to be at peace. Life holds such strange and sometimes awful ocurrances, doesn't it? Anyway, we wish him, and all the family, the best possible.

Thanks, BTW, for the subwoofer comments. I've been reading a LOT about subs - and the "new" thinking seems to be "smaller is better." At least for music.

I got another polite reply from B&W this evening - does this company treat everybody this well? If so, I'd wish for everybody to buy their gear!!!

Anyway - the chap suggested a phase problem. So I'm checking - but black from receiver negative to speaker negative - white from receiver positive to speaker positive. (red) Sigh. so, I'm still trying to see if there's anything I'm doing that's wrong.

The chap said I should be getting 46Hz tone, then a sharp dropoff. Well, I'm certainly not getting that, and not sure why. Will letcha know. . .

Mer goes away to teach another class in the morning, and I intend to really put the speakers, and all the connections, through their paces while she's gone. I just can't believe that speakers this expensive can have this "scant" bass reproduction! Oh, I can easily live with a 4db bass boost - but should I have to do that?

OK - enough for one night. thanx again to all. .
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Good luck and take care, Rantz. I've been down the road of elderly parents. Hopefully things will work themself out.


 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 468
Registered: Feb-04
Larry R., I understand you have to crank the bass for your Fat Boy Slim records. I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as JV and the Kegger and I don't have the benefit of actually listening to the speakers, but what you describe doesn't sound right. It seems like you should be able to get a fair amount of bass from the 705s. The NAD 763 should have enough power to bring out the bass potential of the speakers. Do the speakers have dual binding posts? Have you checked the jumpers and all the cable connections? Are the woofers getting all the current they need? Also, are you connecting the speaker wires to the lower or upper set of binding posts? If they're hooked up to the upper set, you might try switching them to the lower set. These are just some passing thoughts. BTW have you listened to the MTT Mahler 2 on your new speakers. After additional listening, I'm convinced this is a reference quality recording.
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

There is the silght possibility the woofers in the B&W's could be wired out of phase internally for whatever reason. A very simple test is to put the tuner on a channel such as NPR where you will have a central announcer's voice over a stereo broadcast. When you are positioned a few yards in front and centered between the speakers, you should hear a centralized voice. It should occupy a definite space between the two speakers. If instead, you hear a diffuse voice that cannot be centralized, turn the receiver off and change ONE connection only, swapping + for - at the amp or the speaker but not both. Try the test again and if the location improves, the speakers may have at least the woofers wired out of phase.

Not to put you on the spot, but why do you dislike the 4dB boost? You have a very open room with little to provide reinforcement to the bottom octaves. If you boost the bass slightly, are you satisfied with the sound? How is the high frequency response doing? Are you getting used to the tweeters?







 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Give this a try also, Larry. Put a disc in the player that has pretty deep bass, organ will work well. Find a spot in the music that has an extended portion of bass line and place that selection in A-B repeat so it continues to cycle over and over. Walk around the room and listen for changes in the bass response. Pay attention to peaks and dips in volume in various locations in the room. Find another selection with different frequencies and try the same thing again. Let us know what you hear. Pay attention to the sound in the middle of the room vs. where you sit to listen.



 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 621
Registered: Oct-04
JV & 2C - well, I'm starting to do all the things y'all have suggested - one by one. Too late now for music-testing - will do more when Mer leaves to go teaching in the morning.

I've checked the phase - seems OK. And this eve did some of the walk-around that JV suggested. The room is rather amazing, in that the sound from the speakers seems to be more "balanced" way, way off to one side, where there is no stereo effect. Bass doesn't change all that much, except for a pronounced boost when I stand in one of our two corners. Strange. There is no real echo in the room, though it is fairly "live." clapping hands does not echo.

As to the bass boost - well, Jan, after so many people telling me that I should leave the tone controls at 0 - I get nervous when I say that the speakers sound better with 4db bass boost. But they do - much better, in fact. And I get an even better sound when I knock down the treble by 4 db as well. So - hit me! (grin) After spending all that money, you'd think that the darned speakers would sound marvelous with everything set "flat," but such is just not the case.

As to the tweeters - well, I'm not sure I'll ever get totally used to them. They have such a sharpness about them - but at least they are clean and clear - none of the "bunching up" sound that I had with my other speakers. In fact, I'm hearing much more music with these speakers.

OK - I've tried moving the banana plugs from upper to lower binding posts. They're now on the lower ones. I took off the "alloy" plates, and put in 10AWG Blue Jeans Cable copper jumpers. They're nice and tight.

I've read on several audio forums that the 705s will sound better after several weeks of run-in, so I'm hoping that's right. I DO know one strange thing - the speakers tend to sound better and fuller after they've been playing for an hour or so. Don't know why that should be - but I think it's true. I think. . .

Well - I'll do more testing as you describe on Wednesday. Thanks for your interest and information, guyz!

Oh, yes - 2C - nope, I've not yet played the M-2 with the new speakers - will do so tomorrow!
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

After the speakers have played for an hour, or after the amp has been on for an hour?


 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2813
Registered: Dec-03
Sorry to hear about your friend, Larry.

Your father, MR - my thoughts are with you. Take care of your mother, too; you will, I am sure. Old couples who have been close for years become emotionally and physically completely interdepent. You know all this. Just a brief word from me, but take it easy, and all the best.

Re phasing (how can I change gear so cynically; not so much time, apologies) Jan has it in one, as usual. Let me add that the phase-cancellation of bass is more apparent the closer the two speakers are located to each other.

It takes time to get used to new speakers. I guess we all get a bit obsessive about set-up, otherwise we would't be here. Why, Rick is already fiddling with his Jolida tubes. I am not a fan of "out of the box" but it is good to spend some time with flat tone controls and default settings, so you have a reference by which to judge. Then there is running-in, certainly required with new speakers. An up-market dealer's brochure states that Copland amps have irresistible controls; if you like fiddling around, these are for you, apparently. Personally, I want the equipment itself to disappear. Eventually, after reflection, and careful adjustment.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 622
Registered: Oct-04
G-day, all -

Jan V. - Sorry to have to answer your last question with "yes," but the amp and speakers usually come on at the same time. I seldom leave the amp running without either CD or FM playing.

Did another phase test this ayem - NPR - and the voice of the announcer is dead-center, not splayed or distorted.

I have noticed one thing - the B&Ws beg to be driven hard. They sound much better at listening levels that are quite high - too high for Mer. It is only then that the lower frequencies really come into their own. Some have suggested that, when the speaker surrounds have broken in a bit, the lows will be more easily produced. I'm not sure about that - but am hopeful.

As to the tweeters and high freqs with these speakers - well, they ARE very bright. But not in quite the same way as my previous speakers. These emphasize piccolos and high strings, cymbals and high percussion. Rather piercing, in fact. But at the same time, these speakers don't seem to be "fatiguing" to listen to. There is more musical content coming from them, also.

I'd really like to hear from Ghia on this, as she has some B&Ws, also. But then, her listening room may be nowhere like mine - in fact, probably is smaller and "snugger."

My Rantz: Hope all is going better with your father, sir. Our best wishes and prayers continue.

Well, Mer is about to leave for her "jobette," and I'm going back for some more torture with the speaker testing. Sigh.

More anon. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 623
Registered: Oct-04
SOME QUICK HELP, PLEASE:

Kegger, Jan, John, Rick, et al - I have a chance to buy a Mordaunt-Short MS909w subwoofer for a good price. I've read up on the company, but need your input as soon as possible. The speaker that is listed is new, in-box, but is apparently last year's model. It's light cherry, not light oak, and the spikes are black, not silver. Actually, I like this one better than the "new" model.

From what I read, this would seem to be a great sub - even though (I Know!) it is larger than I would like. 16 inches on each side. Any and all comments needed before the auction for this unit ends about 6 p.m. EST. Thanks, guyz!
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1407
Registered: Aug-04
Rick, Larry, Jan and John,

Just a quick thanks before retiring for the night to you all for your kind thoughts, prayers and words. The good news is that my father is doing remarkably well, is now home (thanks to the get 'em out a here asap rule the hospitals love to invoke here), is very sore and sorry and is at our mercy while recuperating. His face, though deftly patched by the plastic surgeon, considering the extent of the injuries, may not be quite the same as before but he 'should' be okay and hopefully, no permanent disabilities, though more xrays may be possible. And yes, John thanks, you are quite right: mother is receiving as much TLC as she'll allow. The whole 'thing' was quite heartbreaking as you all can imagine but things are looking up, thank the Lord.

Larry,

Regarding the 705's and the lack of bass. a thought out of left field I had is that you may wish to check the ports that they have no obstruction in them. Sometimes people insert 'foam plugs' for various reasons and I believe B&W even supply these for some models. But, I would suspect if this was the case it would be obvious. I hope they do come good for you.

 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 469
Registered: Feb-04
Rantz,

That's great news. Hope your father has a speedy recovery.

Larry,

"I have noticed one thing - the B&Ws beg to be driven hard. They sound much better at listening levels that are quite high"

I've heard the same comment regarding Dynaudio speakers, which have an excellent reputation. As I've mentioned in a post to SM, speakers should be able to convey the same level of detail and coherency at low and high volumes. Hopefully the 705s will come through when they're fully broken in.

In a recent issue of Hi-Fi News, a Mordaunt Short subwoofer earned their subwoofer of the year award, beating out much costlier contenders. I remember it lists at 500 pounds (as in British money, not weight), but can't remember the model number :-( Perhaps you could google it.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 624
Registered: Oct-04
2Cents - yep, I've googled it, and researched it, and it would appear to be nearly perfect for me, despite its 16" each way measurements.

MS discontinued its "light cherry" finish this year, and went to either light maple or black. The speaker I'm interested in has the "old" and, I think, better, finish. We'll see.

New, this sub sells for $1,000 USD - and if I can get it for a tad less than half of that - well, it will grace our living room! Wish me luck, OK?

As to the 705s - I get all sorts of information on breaking them in - and the Kevlar cone seems to be the source of the controversy. Some say that it will be as broken in as it can get after about 50 hours - while others say no, it will take 300 hours or a bit more. Sigh. Well - they're sure running a lot - though frankly I haven't seen that much difference yet.

Your comments, 2C, about a speaker being able to reproduce the full range of sound whether soft or loud concerns me - as the 705s definitely do NOT do that. In fact, playing softly they're downright tinny and thin. Not good for eves when Mer and I want some nice, quiet "background" music for Sundowners! (grin)

More anon. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 470
Registered: Feb-04
Larry, you might be interested in the discussion of "noise floor" in the following link:

http://www.high-endaudio.com/rec.html#Noise
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 625
Registered: Oct-04
Two Cents - thanx, I think! (grin) Though I'm not sure what to do with this information, I'm filing it away under "things to understand." The question, of course, is: "who measures this 'floor' and how is it measured? Hmmm. . .

Mer says she is "underwhelmed" at the thought of a big subwoofer in the house. Sigh. I told her it was nice, cherry wood - not black - but did little to pump up her enthusiasm level. First, we'll see if I even get the darned thing! Sigh.

Toyota people say I need $1,400 worth of work done on the car - NOW. Or else the threat of engine failure, I guess. Soooo - into the shop it will go. With 146,000 miles on her, the ole gal jest ain' what she used-ah to B. (neither am I)

Away to some "honeydo" projects involving the use of power tools. I approach every power tool as if it were a rabid dog, ready to do evil things to my body. And sometimes they do. . .

More anon. . .
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

2c - Against all that is logical, I scanned your linked article. (Against logic because last time I did that I made an obvious mistake that was too simple to not see correctly. I should know better that to scan.) I believe the article is not completely the explanation for some speakers needing more power to sound good in a room. The article, while mentioning passive parts, pays particular attention to low quality components as a reason for a higher noise floor. When viewed in that context, the higher noise floor of a cheap receiver against the better made amplifier would be seen as a cause for listener fatigue in one case and a relaxed presentation in the other.
I don't suspect any of us consider the components Larry now owns to fall into the category of lower priced/lower quality components. They amount to a system most of us might suggest to a friend in need of some recommendations for their purchase. While not the highest priced equipment, Larry's kit should work well together to produce acceptable sound.
In my experience and as we've discussed before, one 89dB efficient speaker may not play the same as another speaker with similar specifications. In a speaker quite often I've found this to be a matter of the passive parts that make up the X-over network. The more complex the X-over, utilizing multiple components to maintain strict adherence to frequency response and phase anomalies, the more difficult the load a speaker will become. I can't imagine the B&W's using less than high quality components in their X-over. I don't know the particulars of the X-over in Larry's speakers, but I have always been under the impression B&W markets a speaker that is relatively simple to drive. I really can't remember hearing a B&W speaker that didn't have a reasonable amount of quality to the sound no matter what amplifier it was connected to.
At this point of this post, I assume Larry is moaning lowly to himself about how his don't have that quality. I'll stick my neck out and make a suggestion based on what I've read from Larry's posts.
First, I can guess that most of us agree the NAD amplifier is a warm sound with no real hint of brightness or tip in frequency. It has a decent amount of bass quality to its character. I don't know the specific DVD player Larry is using, but I doubt from what I read about it that it has a severe deviation from neutral. Of all the speakers on the market right now, the B&W is probably the one brand that most everyone has an idea about how their sound. (Bose excepted but not excused.) Unless someone wants to disagree, I would say the B&W's Larry owns are reasonably flat in response with a bit of an insistent high end and a decent extension and fullness of the bottom. That amounts to a system that, all things considered, should get passing grades from most everyone on this thread.
If the components are solid and satisfactory with no obvious deviations from neutral in their nature, there is only one other component of the system that can be considered at fault. To paraphrase, "we go to war with the rooms we have, not with the rooms we would like to have."
When the same complaint continues to be a lack of bass and a slight amount of brightness, after the components have been changed the only thing really left is either the room or personal taste. I suspect the nature of the space Larry has the system in is the largest cause of his slight dissatisfaction with the new components. It is the only component of the system that has not changed one iota. Anyone care to weigh in on this?
Otherwise, I would suggest to Larry, if you find the sound to be acceptable when the bass and treble are slightly boosted (or cut), that is how you should listen. The tone controls are there for a reason and if they compensate for what you feel the system lacks, you should use the appropriate tools at hand to make the corrections needed. That anyone out here should care about how you have the controls set should be of no consequence. Set the controls to please yourself and just don't tell us anymore about that matter. If the problem is with the room and not the equipment, this is certainly the more prudent route at this time. If the speakers continue to add bass as they work through their problematic infancy, so be it. You can back off on the control. Should you just want a tad more bass and less treble on a certain recording, you have the remote nearby.
On the whole, I find people discount their room too easily. If this is the problem with Larry's system, then it should be addressed not by another equipment purchase until this situation is resolved.
That's my advice.







 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Rantz - Keep us posted on your father's progress.


 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 626
Registered: Oct-04
Jan V. - well, sir, I read all the way through your posting - twice. I still don't understand all the noise floor stuff - but I have to agree with you heartily that my room may be a problem.

However - what the heck to I DO with it? Ship it off to Tasmania? (grin) No - seriously - I am moving about such things as Japanese screens, and putting up temporary cloth sound-baffles, and moving my listening chair around the room.

So far - the only difference I've noticed is in the surround speakers. I have to dig into the wall and make SURE that these liddle puppies are all in phase. Red-positive, black-negative, right? Right. But I haven't dug into the wall in sometime, because I have to work within about a 5-inch space between cabinet and wall - and that makes me cranky as all get-out! (grin) I'll be checking that tomorrow.

Won't mention tone settings ever again - promise. So far as y'all know - they're "flat." Yep.

In other news - upon the recommendation of at least two members of this forum, and after much research myself, I bid on and won the auction on eBay for a Mordaunt-Short 909 subwoofer. Cherry finish. Mer says OK if cherry - no if it's black.

Got it for less than half of what a new one costs, and this IS new, still in-box, warranty, etc. intact. It was being sold by a company that bought up the remaining quantities of last year's model. And in a way, I came out a winner there, too. The "newest" models are either light maple or black. The cherry - which I like much better - bit the dust in 2004. Not sure why.

So - now I'll have a new table on which to put junk, and from which will come more low notes, grunts, slams, bangs and whomps than I'll ever need. But I'll NEVER complain about a lack of bass on this forum again!!!!!!!!!

Now - about packing up the room and sending it to Tasmania. . . . . .
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2214
Registered: Dec-03
Yes mr Rants hope all is well down under!
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 627
Registered: Oct-04
My Rantz: Mer and I are thinking of you and your family - and no, that's NOT a threat! It is, however, a gesture showing that, even we don't really "know" you - we have you in our hearts and prayers. We trust that your father will make a speedy recovery - hard as it is at his age. Medical procedures have made huge jumps in the past few years - and thus we hold out hope that his doctors will restore him to good health.

My friend, Jerry, had trauma, but no real heart attack, after all. However, in all his testing, the doctors (in their wisdom?) said that he'd have to have his pancreas taken out. Why? Heck, I'm not sure even the doctors know! So - into surgery he'll go soon, and without even a second opinion! I told him that he's nuts, but that only got him PO'd at me. Sigh. Anybody who faces surgery with only ONE opinion deserves what she/he gets, I suppose. Sigh. . .

More anon. . .
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2215
Registered: Dec-03
OK Jan I agree pretty much with your whole post and come to 3 conclusions.

A: room is a problem and should be looked at to see if anything can be done
without to drastict as to spend a fortune "only so much can be done"

B: It's larry's personal taste.

c: If it's a case as some of us feel about subs and we feel most bookshelves
"neeeeeeed" one! (personal issue, maybe)


The way I look at it is, the room has allways been the same, larry has allways been
the same and bookshelves "with in my opinion usually have less bass than a tower
with larger drivers or multiple smaller bass drivers" have allways been used.

When ghia just got her new speakers the spendors with double bass drivers felt
the subwoofer was no longer needed but her b&w bookshelves benefitted from one.

So as where I differ from you -
(I know this is a difference between you and I but I have no issue with that)
I don't think you "allways" have to remedy the exact problem and can "fix" it
buy going another direction. meaning if the room is bright a sub may correct or
at least mask the problem "as you say band aid it" "no disrespect intended" I
believe some "band aids" can work very nicely.

If it's a lack of bass/pronounced upper frequencies or larry's taste or
the bookshelves less bass thing than in my opinion a sub has a great
chance to do the trick and in my theory could work well!

He also does watch movies and a sub should be a welcome addition I hope!
"now we gotta get um a center" lol/smiley/grin

Now larry I don't mean this as gospel and what you "should" do, It is my
"oppnion" and what I would do if I was you.

______________________

You say that you've tried to "help" the room out.
Has Jan given you any pointers as what to try?
I believe one who sold audio as long as jan has would know a thing or to
about room tweaking. Have you described in "detail" to him or any of us what
your room is like?

 

Silver Member
Username: Black_math

Post Number: 212
Registered: Dec-03
The B&W's are not going to have a lot of boomy bass. They aren't full-range speakers. The CDM1 (the 705's predecessor) had the same trait. You can read reviews on both if you do a search. You need good power to really bring out the music.

If I were to add a sub, I would make sure I had a CD with sweep tones on it. This will allow you to properly calibrate the volume and crossover frequency of the sub. This will help to prevent a "hump" in the mid-bass.
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

One thing I can begin telling Larry is no amount of Japanese screens will make bass appear. They will do little for the high frequencies also because the material used (I'll assume) is not evenly absorptive across the frequency bandwidth. What objects like this do is damp at certain frequencies, typically the midrange, and reflect at the higher frequencies. The reflection, of course, makes the high frequency tilt more pronounced at some frequencies and less so at others. It is a bit like taking an EQ to the room and just moving the sliders randomly. I'd have to dig through some things I have to get more specific, but to even approach an absortive panel that affects any frequency beneath 400HZ, you will need a 4X8' sheet of fiberglass or open cell foam about 6-8" deep. A bass trap that actually gets down around 100Hz is going to be 4-5' tall (or more) and 24" in diameter. To get bass tuning beneath 100Hz you have to get VERY serious.

The best thing to do now is wait for the sub and find out how it does in the room.




 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1408
Registered: Aug-04
. . . and hope it plays well with the other little speakers :-)

All,

Thanks again for all your thoughts for my father (and mother). They don't seem to make 'em like they used to - he's doing really well - I cleaned and dressed his wounds again this ayem and I'm astonished how rapidly they are healing. This has been partly because he demanded the plastic surgeon who had operated on his nose last month. Private health cover is marvellous if one can afford it! Fortunately, his PS made room to accommodate my father at the end of an already full day of ops and did a pretty bang up job on patching his wounds. Anyway, he's up and about and giving plenty of cheek, though still very sore and sorry. The prognosis seems excellent. And again friends, you kind thoughts are very much appreciated.


 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2814
Registered: Dec-03
Great to read that, My Rantz.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Asimo

Post Number: 51
Registered: Apr-04
Larry R

Subwoofer
I followed the discussion about your sub issue. I personally think that sub is irrelevant for the classical music listener.
You do not need sub for violins, trumpets oboe, horns, and not for cello, french horn, piano and many other musical instruments as well for all human voices.
You may need some boost for contrabass or tuba but it is not necessary in the in the sub zone
You may need Sub for few organ notes but how much do you listen to organ ?
From my friends experience it is very difficult to calibrate and adjust the sub for classical music CD's. In most cases it interferes with the music and creates unmoral overwhelming bass
A similar phenomena is also typical to some three way speakers.
I think that two way speakers like yours are best solution for classical music. you may loose few bass notes but have pure and correct music spectrum.
My personal suggestion, forget the sub and use the money for new DVD operas

SM
I received your email I will soon answer you.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 628
Registered: Oct-04
G-day all:

My Rantz - thanx for the better news about your folks. You are right - they don't "make 'em like they used to." Our grandparents, etc., had harder lives, and became "harder" themselves in the process. So - Mer and I bow heads daily and send kind thoughts your way.

Wow - the subwoofer issue has my head in a spin. Here we go.

Asimo - you are mostly correct, sir - but a sub WILL take in low piano notes, and bass viol, and, if set high enough, low cello notes. What I'm aiming for is the sound I hear when I go to a concert or opera - like the ones we just saw in Sarasota. Wow - if I could "package" that in livingroom-size-sound, I'd be a happier camper. I believe the sub will help the overall sound quality in orchestral CDs - my opinion only, sir. And I don't have what you refer to as "pure and correct music spectrum" as it is - which is what I'm trying to achieve, but have not yet.

Kegger and Jan V. - OK, guyz - here's dah deal. I'm gonna take Mer's beloved digital camera and pan it around my listening room - send along shots of each wall-view. Then you will get a better idea of what I'm dealing with. I'll try to get the pics posted by early evening.

The Japanese screens have nothing to do with bass - they're there to blunt high-frequency bounce-back. The rice paper panels are often used in radio stations - we used some in Chicago. This, of course, in connection with more radical sound treatments on walls and ceilings.

One of my main concerns is that - to make the music sound "balanced" I have to twiddle with the tone controls. I really shouldn't have to do that. So - the room is the problem? Well, I'll do my darnedest to try to rectify that, but I'm at a loss to determine what can be done. Maybe the pics will help?

Ben James - you hit the nail on the head: the B&Ws need power to sound full. When the volume is set high - they sound great. When lower volume is set, they are very thin. And oh, yes, almost forgot. The Mordaunt-Short sub comes with its own CD with sweep frequencies and other set-up stuff on it.

I may be wrong (as usual) but I thought I remembered that Ghia was not all that happy with the lower-frequencies on her new Spendors, either. I'm sure she will read this and correct me if I mis-read her earlier postings. BTW, SM, how's the Spendor burn-in coming? Inquiring minds (read it "nosey") want to know! (grin)

More anon. . .

 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 629
Registered: Oct-04
Jan, et al - pics showing my listening room. Shots of the stereo should "anchor" the shots for you. #1 here:
- - - - - - -
Upload
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 630
Registered: Oct-04
And #2 here:
- - - - - - -
Upload
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