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Bad Idea?

 

New member
Username: Southpaw

VIRGINIA

Post Number: 4
Registered: Jan-05
I'm in a bind. I am fininshing my basement for my first HT setup. I have a Paradigm setup-11's in the front, CC370, ADP170s, with a Denon 1905. I now have limited space, with my flatscreen hanging. My builder said he can put the 11's in the wall with 8 inches behind them and 3 inches on each side so that everything is flush on the wall. My Paradigm dealer said the 11's have a front firing port, so as long as 6 inches are between the back and the wall, it would be OK. I have some serious reservations. Any opinions, I know this may sound radical.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Gavincumm

Post Number: 21
Registered: Feb-05
DO NOT put speakers in the wall unless they are designed to do so. In wall speakers are voiced specifically for this purpose. Putting these speakers which already have slightly overpowering bass IMHO, will only make the bass REALLY muddy. Not only will it effect the bass, but the mids will become smeared, making vocals indistinct. You DO NOT want a nice pair of towers to sound like a ghetto blaster. Putting speakers in the wall is totally different then putting them close to the wall.

I personally reccomend no less than 3 feet from the wall and the speakers for the best bass performance.

gavin.
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Here's what I would do. First, give Paradigm a call, they should have an answer for you. Second, if they suggest this can work, take a few sheets of plywood and build a temporary infinite baffle around the speakers (one will do for the test) because that is what happens when you put a speaker into a wall. Though a few sheets of plywood aren't big enough to be a true infinite baffle, it is a good place to begin hearing the advantages of this design.

What you are thinking of right now is a box speaker that is being put close to a wall. That is not at all the same thing as an infinite baffle which does suffer from the pi effect of cutting down the radiating space the speaker sees. Quite the opposite, in fact. It is true when you take a box speaker and move it toward a wall or corner you will increase the bass because of the reinforcement of the surfaces. A speaker sitting a few inches from a wall will have an additional 3dB of bass response. The problem here is it only works on the bass end because the tweeter's wave lengths are too small to benefit from this placement.

However, a speaker that is mounted so its drivers are absolutely flush to the wall will not see this influence. An infinite baffle is an old way to mount speakers that uses the radiation patterns of the wall to reinforce the speaker's efficiency evenly across the frequency spectrum. It works particularly well for tweeters where you can gain as much as 3dB of efficiency as the speaker now radiates into a half space. The woofer will normally smooth out as there will not be the phase problems presented by a speaker sitting in front of a wall by a few inches. If the speakers can be mounted flush to the wall, I would think this would be advantageous. Of course, I would call Paradigm first for assistance. Ask them about infinite baffles in this application. You can also do some reading on your own by putting "infinite baffle" into a search engine. Stereophile ran an article a few years ago about this type of baffle; you might go to their site and try their search function.

If you decide to do this mounting, the biggest problem you face is how to mount the speakers so the do not excite resonances and vibrations in the wall itself. Once again I would ask Paradigm's opinion after discussing the plans your builder has for the construction of the wall. The added expense of doing this installation correctly may dissuade you from attempting this task. Done incorrectly the benefits of the infinite baffle will be defeated by the noises from the wall. Also consider sound transmission between rooms when considering this install.


 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest


http://lp2cd.com/audio_terms/b/baffle_infinite.html



 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

http://white.hometheatertalk.com/tips/ib.htm


 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest


http://www.frazierspeakers.com/download/bounds.pdf#search='infinite%20baffle'


 

New member
Username: Southpaw

VIRGINIA

Post Number: 5
Registered: Jan-05
J. Vigne,

Thanks for all of the information. It's a little daunting as I am a newbie and just want a good pair of speakers. I emailed Paradigm right before I posted here, so hopefully, today I will hear back. Ultimately, I may return the 11's and maybe just get the Monitor 5 and a nice big sub with the extra I save. I read on the Paradigm site that their bookshelves are meant to be on shelf, in wall. I wasn't sure about the Monitor 5's, so I emailed that question to Paradigm too.

I agree with you that I think it would be costly to create the baffle for two speakers the size of the 11's.

If anyone else has any ideas....
 

Bronze Member
Username: Gavincumm

Post Number: 22
Registered: Feb-05
the minitor 5 will be a better choice. Either go that route, or talk to your builder and see if on wall speakers will be a better answer, as paradigm makes the monitor series as an on wall speaker.

Lastly, if you have no other choice, they also make in walls.

J. Vigne, thank you for giving a more complete answer than what I am able to

gavin
 

Bronze Member
Username: Gavincumm

Post Number: 23
Registered: Feb-05
sorry... monitor 5
 

New member
Username: Southpaw

VIRGINIA

Post Number: 6
Registered: Jan-05
Gavin and J. Vigne,

Thanks for the posts. It's at least helped get me started in the right direction. I will post what Paradigm recommends when I hear from them. Thanks again.
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