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Archive through January 24, 2005

 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 752
Registered: Dec-03
Larry,

Thanks for the Ghia update. I'll send my best wishes in an e-mail. I hope all is well, and am glad you are enjoying the NAD.

Cheers!
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Just for those who care:

1942 Na/zi officials hold notorious Wannsee conference in Berlin deciding on "final solution" calling for extermination of Europe's Jews.

1949 J. Edgar Hoover gives Shirley Temple a tear gas fountain pen.

1950 Alger Hiss found guilty of perjury.

2160 Dawning of the Age of Aquarius, when the Sun moves into the 11th sign of the zodiac. Astrologers believe the next 2,000 years will bring a Golden Age of Enlightenment.



 

New member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 1
Registered: Jan-05
Creeeaaaakkk......tiptoe, tiptoe.....
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/weird_news/10680626.htm


 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2748
Registered: Dec-03
J. Vigne,

Conspiracy (2001) (TV)

Recommended. Seriously.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1262
Registered: Aug-04
Rick - :-)

Larry,

I think all old dogs can tell you the same thing - there is no way you will get decent speakers for $48.00 :-)

SimplyMcIntosh,

Glad you popped back in - how are the kitties doing?


Darn, I always thought J Edgar Hoover was Shirley Temple?


 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

"Darn, I always thought J Edgar Hoover was Shirley Temple?"

Just dressed like her.



John, I've seen the movie, Very good, but, you have to watch it when you're wide awake. It takes more concentration than many movie goers are likely to want to devote to this.

I watched the original "The Italian Job" last weekend. 1969 with Michael Caine, Benny Hill and Noel Coward. Very good and very diferent than the "remake". Anyone who likes smart, clever English humor from that time period should watch it. It's not Monty Python. Much better car chase. But don't expect explosions and special effects, just an interesting movie.

 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 458
Registered: Oct-04
Jan V. et al - as you watch movies a lot, have you heard/seen the new DVD of the "original" Star Wars?"

Got a copy both for me and for some friends and their kids (we trade DVDs) and was shocked to hear the sound quality on the disc! It's as though the rolled off the bass about 500 Hz - no matter what I did, short of boosting the bass by about 12 db - would make it sound like that soundtrack SHOULD sound!

Any comments? I've adjusted bass management, and every other change I could thhink of. Somehow, I must be missing something? Or did they just bring out the discs with bad sound tracks?

Hoping for answers on this one. And by the way, did yet another test on the equipment today. Started playing a string quartet with everything "cold." Sounded thin and harsh. Just let it play on repeats for more than a half-hour. Came back into the room, and the sound was - I swear - warmer and fuller. Gremlins?

I know many of you have told me to expect the gear to sound different once it is thoroughly warmed up - and I guess y'all are right.

One or two have suggested that the speaker cones are stiff when first activated - but I thought that only applied during the initial break-in period. Wrong again? Prob-blee so. Sigh.

And BTW - the tweak where I sand the disc-edges with 3M green kitchen scrubbies then apply black marker ink - well, it DOES improve the sound - especially mid and low ranges. The "sanding" seems to be the key element here - perhaps it makes the laser light refract, rather than reflect off the polished disc-edges?

John A. - yew gotta try that tweak! then tell me that I'm just another misguided "Amerukan!" (grin)

More anon. . .

PS - shhhhh - (IS SimplyMcIntosh really Ghia?)
 

New member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 2
Registered: Jan-05
I've heard of this "Ghia" before....I've been told she's run off to the land down under....
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1265
Registered: Aug-04
Well if she has I certainly hope I run into her. I'll offer my sincere apologies for upsetting her on this forum (as unintentional as it was), invite her home to meet my wonderful wife, offer her a drink or ten and then let her listen to hi-res music on a real surround system. Then Mrs Rantz and I would console her after she becomes upset for selling her NAD to Larry, buying that MAC amp, and wondering how she could ever have gone back to plain ol' stereo.

Then we could possibly go sightseeing with Ms Cabriolet and show off our glorious beaches - if I'm lucky she might even roll her top down.

I mean our climate lends itself to having the top rolled down. That's what cabriolets are for - aren't they?

Geez, you old dogs are all the same :-)


 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Sorry, Larry, I don't know anything about the Star Wars DVD. I saw it in the theater when it was re-released and once every 25 years is often enough for me.

I would suggest you leave the equipment on for two entire days and then give a listen. You may hear something new.


 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 459
Registered: Oct-04
Jan V. - OK - equipment is on - will stay on overnight and into tomorrow. Will post results sometime tomorrow afternoon. Heck, I may even hear voices from outer space at this rate!

MR - please do not entice Ms. Cabriolet to perform open-air exhibitionist maneuvers. She is, after all, a shy, Southern Belle - unused to the rigors of the Australian sun and sand. (grin)

To all - a pleasant (yawn) G-nite!
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1266
Registered: Aug-04
Larry,

Watched the re-released old Star Wars movies on DVD not too long ago and for sure, the sound quality (though not bad for the vintage after remastering) was nowhere near the standard (or boom impact) of the latest Star Wars Flicks - so do not despair.

This applies to most remastering efforts up to pre early eighties movies IMHO.

I am certainly suspicious of SimplyMcIntosh and Ms Cabriolet being one and the same. I thought my tongue-in-cheek post might draw her out or at least some fire but we'll wait and see. Hmmm!
 

New member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 3
Registered: Jan-05
Hmmmmm.....
 

New member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 4
Registered: Jan-05
Separated at birth??


Upload


Or, one and the same?



Upload
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 460
Registered: Oct-04
Dear "Simply"(grin) - nice pichurs! I'm thinking that perhaps you are NOT the Ghia we know and love, but a techno-whiz who is now taunting us with un-resolvable puzzles.

Obviously a Gemini - twin personalities, maybe even parallel universes! John A. would certainly say something like "enigma."

Whomever you are - welcome to the Old Dogs thread, though I somehow doubt that you fit either "old" or "dog."

Meow. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 461
Registered: Oct-04
MRantz - thanks for the reply. The darned sound on the disc is jest plane off-ull! I remember seeing the movie when it was initially released to theatres - and how "blown away" I was with both pic and sound. I forgave the small picture on the TV - but thought that at least I'd get some of those rumble-notes coming through!

Now I know I've GOT to get a sub-woofer eventually, but even with the liddle Polks there should be SOME low-end sound! Nope - all sounds very "filtered."

More anon. . .
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

J.F.T.W.C.

1924: Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov Lenin, leader of the Russian Bolshevik party, dies of a stroke at 54.

1938: Emma Tenayuca leads pecan shellers strike, San Antonio, Texas.

1950: Novelist and activist George Orwell (Eric Blair) age 46, buys the [animal] farm, dies, London, England.

1953: Thirteen communists convicted of plotting overthrow of U.S. government.

 

Silver Member
Username: Ojophile

ON

Post Number: 227
Registered: Jun-04
Larry et al,

Posted originally on the "Discoveries" thread:

http://www.jazztimes.com/reviews/audio_video_files/reviewDetail.cfm?ReviewID=16

In that article, some points stood out, at least in my view, and I quote them below:

Art Dudley: "...that reviewers and consumers should listen to the musical attributes of a system and not its sonic virtues."

Dudley: "...the large majority [of most current writers] continue to converse in a lexicon foreign to folks who just want to hear a believable reproduction of the scorching intensity of a Sonny Rollins solo." [substitute the last phrase with your own favorite artist's solo]

Dudley: "And what do these audio savants know that our ears and souls can't detect?"

Dudley: "But most audiophiles, God bless their hearts, are busy fooling themselves. It's important to strip away all their descriptive trappings, to forget about the sound and listen to the music, and that will guide you toward something that will give you longer pleasure."

Robert Harley: "A hi-fi system is a vehicle for exploring the world of music and the better that hi-fi system is, the deeper you can go into the music--really connecting with the expression of the composer and the performer. We are here to point out to readers which components are better at reproducing music than others."

Dudley: "[Quoting some writers: "... -- they say, 'But I heard the subway trains and I heard the violinist's cuff links hit the music stand.' "] That's so silly; it makes a lot of audiophiles look like what they are: people spending money on ephemera and not getting into the essence of what it's really about, the music."

Harley: "If you find a caring and skilled dealer, the consumer will end up with a good sounding system regardless of what the equipment is."

Dudley: "Just focus on the music and those musical attributes--like melody, and rhythm will jump out at you. It's a function of untraining yourself, of forgetting all those things you're supposed to listen for. Just listen to the music and see if you respond to it."

 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 463
Registered: Oct-04
Don: (excuse me, I've got to take off these jangling cufflinks!) There - better!

thanks for re-posting - I'd read it on Discoveries, and appreciate your reference.

Question of the day: If you had $1,000 (USD) to spend on a pair of speakers - what would you buy? That comes up after "anonymous" challenged in the "Speakers" thread - saying Polks and Paradigms were not the best of that price range. Hmmm. . . Guess you'd go with PSB - but wondering about the rest of y'all. . .

I'm afraid, after listening to a lot of speakers (but not the PSB - no place near) that I'd have to strongly consider the Polk LSi9 - though I'd also veer towards those lush Boston Acoustics VR-M60s! Very nice. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 754
Registered: Dec-03
Larry,

If I may be so bold, please let me suggest a pair of Spendor 3/5's. Given your taste in music, I think a pair matched with your NAD, would put you in sonic heaven. They can be found on Audiogon for between $600-$800. I have spent a lot more on speakers, but never a pair more true to the music.

Cheers!
 

New member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 5
Registered: Jan-05
Rick wrote:

Larry,

If I may be so bold, please let me suggest a pair of Spendor 3/5's. Given your taste in music, I think a pair matched with your NAD, would put you in sonic heaven. They can be found on Audiogon for between $600-$800. I have spent a lot more on speakers, but never a pair more true to the music.


See Lar, what'd I tellya?
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1270
Registered: Aug-04
"Now I know I've GOT to get a sub-woofer eventually"

Larry,

IMHO sooner rather than later would be better. With your little Polks you'd be surprised what a sub could do for your music - as for movies, well hang on to your hats :-)

SimplyMcIntosh - how you taunt us so. Nevertheless, Ms Cabriolet it's good to see you with your top down. Nice bumpers btw.



 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

hubba-hubba-hubcaps!


 

New member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 6
Registered: Jan-05
Mr Rantz,

The bumpers are my, er, Ghia's best feature. My best feature, of course, is my natural presentation of two channel stereo. Viva le stereo! That's French, y'know. hehehehe....ahem.
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 407
Registered: Feb-04
I don't want to get into it again (so please ignore the following Jan and John A.), but there are plenty of good speakers in the $1,000 range. Which one you consider the best is really a subjective call. So, here are my choices based on auditions:

Opera 1.5 (new) small speakers with surprising big and detailed sound. A little on the bright side, only evident after I listened to Magnepan 1.6s afterwards.

Sonus Faber Concertino (used) very warm and smooth sounding, seems to smooth over the edginess of digital music, looks beautiful in a retro way (reminds me of 60's and 70's Italian style--could be right up the alley for the retro stylings of Simply McIntosh/Ghia Cabriolet). Lacks bass weight.

Magnepan MMG (new) incredibly detailed and musical for the price. Needs sub to help with the low frequencies.

Audio Physic Tempo (used) spent a wonderful weekend with them. If I had a $1,000 limit, these are probably the speakers I would get.

I think used is the way to go in buying loudspeakers. Here's another thing I've noticed. To get a significant improvement, you need to spend double the price. For example, there are sweet spots: Good speakers around $500; very good speakers around $1,000; excellent speakers around $2,000-2,500; then you have to go up in the $5,000 range to hear a significant improvement. It's another version of the law of diminishing returns. I know this is very, very simplistic and there are always exceptions, but it's something I've noticed as I've auditioned speakers.

Regarding Boston Acoustics speakers, I remember back in college all the rich kids had BA speakers and Nakamichi tape decks. I mean everyone single one of the kids who drove around in BMWs. I rode a bike and listened to a portable all-in-one system. As soon as I had money, I bought Polk bookshelf speakers.
 

New member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 7
Registered: Jan-05
Don,

Thanks for that article. I had read it on the Discoveries thread and, the comments you pulled out above, are the ones that struck me on first read. Definitely, some fine points made there.
Thanks.
 

Marc C
Unregistered guest
I'm still wondering if anyone ever got their mitts on a pair of those Green Mountain Audio Europas.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2118
Registered: Dec-03
Two Cents:

"Magnepan MMG (new) incredibly detailed and musical for the price.
Needs sub to help with the low frequencies.


I think used is the way to go in buying loudspeakers. Here's another
thing I've noticed. To get a significant improvement, you need to
spend double the price. For example, there are sweet spots: Good
speakers around $500; very good speakers around $1,000; excellent
speakers around $2,000-2,500; then you have to go up in the $5,000
range to hear a significant improvement. It's another version of the
law of diminishing returns. I know this is very, very simplistic and
there are always exceptions, but it's something I've noticed as I've
auditioned speakers."

Here here well said and my sentiments exactly!

I've not been in the speaker searching department lately but two
others I have seen and heard would be the jm labs cobalt s series are outstanding
and present a huge soundstage with a very fast and articulate sound!
The other one would be the Vandersteen 2C. there are so many versions of this
classic speaker that I get lost with the models, but these things rock and range
from about $250 used to about $1250 new depending model (2e , 2ce , and so on)

The other I'd like to throw out there in the $1000 and under catagory would be the
klipsch reference series! even the little RB-35's I have at $500 for
the pair pack quite a punch!
http://www.klipsch.com/product/product.aspx?cid=659&s=specs
GREAT LITTLE TUBE SPEAKER!
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 469
Registered: Oct-04
2C - Welllllll - your story about those "richies" and their BA speakers really put me off! Hah! Wouldn't be caught with them thangs now! Give me my bike and my AR3s and my penny loafers any day! (grin)

Thanks for saving me from humiliation!

Still looking/listening around - and really wish there were somewhere I could audition Kegger's JM Labs 806s speakers. Nobody down here in Swampville evah heared of dem. Sigh.

SM (simply-mcintosh) glad to read that you have joined the take-an-audiophile-by-the-hand bunch. Have read a lot about your pet Spendor speakers, but from the specs, I'd sure need a subwoofer! Also, they cost a lot - I could get one of my "dream speaker" B&W 705s for about the same amount - and I've heard the B&Ws. Frankly, I turned away from them at my initial audition because of the price more than the sound quality. But the more speakers I hear the more they haunt me. Still. . .

Kegger & 2C - yep, you are right in suggesting that "used is the way to go" - IF - you can find what you want, in the condition you want, and at the price you want. A hard combination to find!

Happy weekend to all. . .
 

New member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 8
Registered: Jan-05
LR,

You know specs don't tell the whole story. Our good friend, Mr. Barnes, doesn't run a sub with his Spendors.

Art Dudley has a review of the S3/5se:

Spendor S3/5se Review

Here are a few excerpts:

It's a bit of a cliché, I know, but the Spendors had an uncanny ability to sound big when they needed to, much as a housecat can puff itself up for brief periods of time. Orchestral instruments--the trombones and other brass instruments in the famous Charles Munch recording of Saint-Saens' "Organ" Symphony, for example (LP, RCA/Classic Records)--sounded magnificent......I was almost startled by the realistic scale of the acoustic guitars that open "Blue"--and this coming straight from listening to the comparatively sizey Quad ESL-989s and Lowther Medallions....

Equally surprising--if no less a cliché in small-speaker reviews, for which sorriness I can only shake my head--was how well the Spendor performed in the bottom octaves......Even the pedal tones in the Saint-Saens were convincing: Obviously, the fundamentals were not there, but through a striking combination of second harmonics and realistic ambience or pressure--"clean noise," if you like--the Spendor got across the idea of deep bass if not the thing itself. On first listen, at least, the Spendor didn't sound that much lighter than the Quad. And it kicked hiney all over the Lowther, whose big enclosure I can scarcely carry by myself.

But if I were a Spendor salesman and I had just 15 minutes to convince you how good they are, I'd sit you down with the reissue of the legendary DeVito recording of Bach's Violin Concerto in E (LP, EMI). When I tried that one, I was just about ready to buy the S3/5se's myself--not because of individual aspects of the speaker's sound, but for its musical performance overall. It was spot-on in terms of pitch: I'd never before heard that record played back quite so listenably (especially true, I admit, when I drove the Spendors with my old-style Naim electronics), and the notes were so right and real that the music seemed hardwired to my brain. That record gave the best accounting of the Spendors' spatial strengths, too: Even with the speakers against the wall, I was completely entranced by the way the solo violin came a little forward of everything else, just stayed there, and sang and sang.


Lar, he's comparing the Spendors favorably against Quads. In your own auditon, the 705's didn't beat out Paradigms. Don't forget about the metallic tweeter and the harshness of those violins that initally disappointed you. Don't forget my own surprise (and disappointment) regarding your disappointment of the 705's.<smile>



Maybe Rick can come visit you, bring his own Spendors and you can audition them in your home against the 705 and hear for yourself which you like best. Hopefully, Rick doesn't mind that I volunteered him for this task. <wink> Heck, while we're at it, why not invite Kegger and his JM Focals.


We just want you to be happy Lar. Who knows, if you can find a used pair of Spendors, you might be able to get them plus a sub for less than the 705 new.

p.s. Let's go with SMac instead of SM which might conjure up unintentional thoughts in the old dogs.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 471
Registered: Oct-04
SMac?!? (as in "smack?") Hmmm. . . OK, but, uh, that is . . .oh, OK!

thanks for the review - and the reminders of my first, perhaps ill-phrased, reaction to the 705s in the HiFi shop. As many of you reading this can imagine, I was dealing with one set of speakers I could NOT afford (the 705s) and one that I COULD afford (the Paradigm studio 20s).

Well, my dear wife informs me that I need to get speakers that will last the rest of my life (short, if she has anything - - no, no) and so I'm again "aiming" at the 705s.

Spendors - heck - I'd love to hear some, but there's no chance of that here in Swampville.

Hmmmmm - - on third thought, I think I'll just type out "SimplyMcIntosh" so nobody misunderstands! (grin) Then again, you COULD come up with a shorter "tag!"

More anon. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 755
Registered: Dec-03
I am currently in the middle of a blizzard, along with single digit temps. I would love to be heading to Larry's with a Spendor under each arm. It's days like this that I remember why I want to move to Florida.

BTW-I never felt any need to hook up my subwoofer with the S3/5's. Very accurate, fast, and articulate down to 60Hz.

Stay well and warm all!
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1274
Registered: Aug-04
Blown Away

As we've been talkin about that quest for good sound - a tall tale, but true . . .

I know Rick may support this 'event' after reading some of his tweaks etc, but I also know some others will think I've fallen victim to the snake oil merchants - and I may have felt somewhat the same way prior to the revelation I had yesterday . . .

The other day I inspected the old 10 guage Monster speaker cable given to me some years back and noticed it was beginning to look a bit lacklustre. So I went out and hunted around for some decent/cheap cable and of course, that turned out to be a futile exercise. Yesterday I decided to go for drive back to the dealer from where I purchased My SR-7300 as I recalled he had a fair selection of cable on hand. At the same time I told my wife that I would not be taken in by smooth talk about how costly exotic cables would make our system really sing.

Well, I didn't get smooth talk. Instead I listened to some good advice and left with 10 metres of Kimber cable along with the promise that not only I would be surprised at the improvement I would hear, but it would be even better after a week or so when the cable had been "run in". Okay old dogs, I'll get back to that one in a week or so, but the fact is - and I expect to get flamed for this - after stripping the ends (48 in all for left, right and center speakers) - I put on what I now call my reference SACD (Matt Bianco's - Matt's Mood) which was so stunning soundwise I thought would be darn near impossible to improve with anything including expensive high-end stuff and all my preconceptions about speaker cable flew right out the window. I was quite amazed: the mids were even more revealing than before, the highs seemed crisper but less edgy, the bass was more full and overall, (forgive me, I find sound hard to explain) a wonderful lushness had been added to the sound quality. IMHO the excercise seemed like I had added some high end component/s to our gear.

Each leg of the braided cable is made up of eight strands totalling 10 guage with the bare ends twisted together. The cable is the second lowest in catalogue (8PR) and I highly recommend it. BTW - using my c/ard to direct debit my bank account I was also surprised when I got home and noticed on my receipt that I had been given a decent discount - even without my asking.

http://www.kimber.com

Okay, flamethrowers shoot me :-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 472
Registered: Oct-04
MR - WHOOOOOOSSSSHHHHHH!!! There, I've "flamed" you! U OK wid dat? (grin)

Well, now, all I can say is that I'm happy for you and your better sound! You may (or may not) remember that Mer and I went through fires of hell in a two-day speaker-wire and interconnect test with more than a dozen cables "lent" to me by my friend out in LA.

We finally decided that we could hear "some" difference in "some" cables. But not much.

Soooo - hey, my friend, if you have found better sound with Kimber (I've heard several such stories) then I'm all for it.

Sorta like the CD-cleaning glop that I foisted off on Jan V. and Ghia - both of whom heard major differences, while such "tweaks" are in general disdain by the "general public."

I say - "go for it." Enjoy the music. And damn the torpedoes! OK!

Rick, my friend: Darn! Those pesky storms do wreak havoc wherever they strike, don't they?
Oh, well - maybe sometime.
There is a pair of your Spendor 3/5se speakers on audiogoN - I believe for $1,100 USD. Frankly, I'm tempted - but again, I am just an ole scardy-cat when it comes to buying something I've never heard.

Not to dispute your claims, please! But Kegger waxes eloquent about his JM Labs Cobalt speakers, and from what I read they must be fantastic. But, but, but I simply CANNOT buy any speaker that I've not listened to myself.

My "dream speaker" remains the B & W 705s - which I have heard, and will audition again this coming week. With Mer. And in a more serious mood than before, when I listened to them while thinking I could never have them. Well. . .

Heck - frustration creeps into this ole dog's life!

More anon, with thanx. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 756
Registered: Dec-03
Rantz,

I couldn't be happier to hear you are enjoying your new and improved sound. I used Kimber speaker cable and interconnects for years. So an old dog CAN learn some new tricks.

Don't worry about the opinions of the flatearthers. I just get annoyed at people who want to tell me I can't possibly hear or experience, what I know I just heard or felt. Just smile and enjoy the music mate.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2749
Registered: Dec-03
Larry,

"Enigma".

That second pic is unmistakably Ghia Cabriolet, with top folded neatly away, and in excellent condition, by the look of it.

If I recall correctly, you joined us after the delightful thread in which we were first introduced to GC:-

Plunging in to multichannel; Archive through May 04, 2004.

No mention of SM. Those were the days. Still, what's in a name?

Looking back at that thread, we see from MR's great post, above, that he has taken GC's recommendation on cables, too. No wonder that he dreams of touring the backroads of Queensland in such company.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2750
Registered: Dec-03
Brief Sunday morning update, for any who care. My only tweak so far in the centre of the known world has been to tilt the waste paper bins back about 10º with door wedges. Definite improvement; brings the tweeters on-axis. This followed a brief tour of the HiFi shop ghetto of south Tottenham Court Road, where no affordable speaker stand scored an acceptable WAF.

BTW totally dazzled by the luscious Apple Store in Regent Street. Has free WiFi. There is even a Tivoli add-on to iPod. Wonder what Henry Kloss would have thought of that, Jan? Jeez, these iPod things seem to be taking over the world.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1275
Registered: Aug-04
Rick,

Just finished listening to music for about the past four hours this Sunday afternoon. Both wife and I are smiling. Sound is superb and music is the second best thing there is. I recall now that you did admit to using Kimber cable back when it took a brave man to do so {grin} so it should have been a no brainer for me to follow in your footsteps - er - lead.

Larry

I ducked in time - though almost had the last vestiges of hair on my scalp singed off. I recall your cable tests and am glad you too saw some differences. The more who can attest to such things make me feel less mad. Thanks.

John A,

I hear the waste paper bin stands are awesome - a great environmental tweak to boot! Yes aren't speaker stands of any quality costly items?

Are we settling in okay - I'll bet you are both beside yourselves - but don't be frightened by that - they won't hurt you :-)

Now - for dinner and movies. Saw "Ladykillers" last night btw. Had a "M" (for mature audiences) rating here. Not high enough for mums and dads watching with their 'mature' kids' so I do understand your comment.
 

Marc C
Unregistered guest
All,

Just to throw this in - many have spoken very well of the Reynaud Twins. Have twice read them in comparison with the 3/5's as an apples and oranges situation - Twins being the more emotional of the two.

Bad for those who don't like their speakers gettin all emotional on them...
 

New member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 9
Registered: Jan-05
JohnA,

Envy of your centre of the world location abounds from my neck of the woods. :-)

Let me get this straight....none of the affordable speaker stands were more WAF-friendly than your waste paper bins? John, you need to try a little harder. :-)

MR,

Thanks for the feedback re: Kimber Kables. I use a Kimber Kable for the interconnect between the Denon and Mac (my system is remarkably similar to Ghia's, so I've been told). As mentioned to Lar this week, I'm getting ready to start the "tweaking" process and, first up will be speaker cables. Will be trying Mapleshade's Gold Helix cable. By my calculations, there will be 8 ends to prepare instead of 48. Vive le stereo! :-) Glad to hear the difference brought such a listening pleasure for you and Mrs. Rantz!

Rick,

Did you know Spendors are on the way to my house? I kept missing out on the good S3/5 deals and, along the way, started thinking of floorstanders anyway (these thoughts started after knocking a speaker off the stand a few months ago) so I ordered a pair of S5e's. They are from a small dealer's showroom with about 20 hours of play on them. Hope to have them in about 10 days.


LR,

The S3/5se on Audiogon right now seem to be a little high. I've seen them less than $1000 on Audiogon. Rick's model the S3/5 usually go for $500-600 and recently someone sold a pair at $375. They usually go very quickly once they are listed.

Marc,

The Reynaud Twins are beautiful speakers and the reviews seem to indicate excellent musical presentation too. I like the stands, too.

 

New member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 10
Registered: Jan-05
Jan,

Getting immense enjoyment out of the CD's. The 3 mic recording techniques on the RCA and Mercury recordings are incredible. The level of detail and depth of the recordings is remarkable. I'm going to start ordering some of the SACD offerings from these 2 series, starting with the Fritz Reiner/CSO Strauss: Also sprach Zarathustra recording you sent me.

I'm sorry to report I still haven't been able to get into Piaf. :-(

The jazz recordings have opened up a new stage of artists to me, too. Loved the Chet Baker and went out and bought another of his recordings, Chet is Back.

And, I have to continue to marvel at the Patsy Cline. This recording is much better than the greatest hits collection I have. Her version of Your Cheatin' Heart is outstanding! It's like eating potato chips... I can never listen to it just once and end up hitting the repeat button.

Thanks again for sending the CD's to me. It has been a wealth of discovery (and there's more to discover as I still haven't listened to a few of them) and I appreciate your sharing these selections with me!

 

Bronze Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 11
Registered: Jan-05
JohnA,

First the iPod, now the Mac Mini. Check out these products:

EyeTV
EyeHome

 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 757
Registered: Dec-03
Rantz,

Glad to hear music is the second best thing there is. At your age, I certainly know what the best thing is......................a good nap. LOL!

MsMac,

I am very pleased to have you back on the forum, in any incarnation. Do you think I will be considered for the next peace prize? I think I put in the effort. LOL! Relax Jan, I can feel you rolling your eyes-Rick-peace prize? Ok, I withdraw my nomination.

Everything I have read about the S5e's indicates you are in for an awesome sound experience. A full review is in order in due time.

Larry,

Forget the se's, go with the S3/5's!

John,

Time aligned waste paper bins? Please give me a little time to grasp the concept. LOL!

Stay well all....................

Cheers!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 12
Registered: Jan-05
Jan,

The Janos Starker Living Presence Sonatas is very beautiful. A funny little anedote about first listen of this...I thought one of my cats was snoring only to realize it was the breathing in the recording. :-)

 

Bronze Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 13
Registered: Jan-05
JohnA,

Thanks for that trip down memory lane (i.e. Plunging thread). It's funny how things sort of came full circle. Despite moving the TV back into the living room, I never did use the multichannel for movies. Just the other day, I was thinking how much better my furniture (and audio) arrangement is when the TV and its cabinet are not in the living room. Unfortunately, it'll have to stay there now since there's no longer room in the other rooms for the cabinet. I suppose I could sell the cabinet but it really is a beautiful piece of furniture. Will have to ponder this some more.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2752
Registered: Dec-03
Just to say everything I have read, including in HiFi News, gives top marks to the Spendor S3/5s. For greater bass extension, there is also a Spendor S6e, closer in size to the original BC1. Still a two-driver speaker.

No, no, Ghia (may I address you so) the bins are a temporary expedient, scoring low on audiophile cred and WAF, but raising the speakers off the carpet quite effectively. This very afternoon Mrs A has gone to Canary Wharf (aaah..) to buy some nice, cheap, wooden flower-pot stands we saw there yesterday. 26 ". They have a high WAF. This will be less of a temporary expedient, more an interim solution. It would be mad to get more stands when we have three good pairs back in the old homestead, and with my ultimate dream speaker being a pair of Quad 988s or ESL 63s, which stand on the floor, anyway.

I think the next splash just has to be a projector, by family demand. Watched "Tomb Raider" last night, on a 12" Sony CRT. It just does not do justice to Lady Croft's considerable but artificial charms. You can tell they are that, partly because she emerges from a freezing river in a tee-shirt and they do not change shape. One needs hi-res video to be quite sure: I am sure certain Old Dogs will understand the need for such attention to detail. I think the children and the parents get rather different messages from a movie like that. At least, I hope so. Escapist tosh, but hey, this is the movie industry. We purchased the original "Italian Job" too, following Jan's recommendation. Wonder if they plug 1960s hifi, and E-types, instead of NAD and DB7s.

By the way movies sound pretty good in stereo; choose 5.1 on the disc and tell the player you have no surrounds, no centre, and no sub. Nothing added; nothing taken away. The dialogue is perfectly clear. Lots of impressive bass from my -3 dB at 50 Hz KEF Corellis. I can understand the bass on Spendor S3/5s is perfectly OK. the KEFs should be better when they are on plant-stands.

But this, too, is a makeshift solution. Returning obessively to the point, I still think multichannel can add something valuable, including for music. My tentative plan now is eventually to get a valve/tube stereo amp with maybe some Quad ESLs for the front channels and CD/LP, and move the system we are now using to the surround channels. Might get a REL Quake if I really miss the bass, but I doubt it will be really necessary. All that can be fed directly from the player. I think, with genuine multichannel recordings, AV/receivers and their processing must eventually disappear. My tentative plan is to make this "upgrade" incrementally, over many months. I may be selling an NAD AV receiver before too long, too, but I get attached to things.

I note in the Oxford Street megastores that SACD stock is increasing faster than that of DVD-A. We'll see.

Ghia,

The Starker cello sonatas MLP CD is superb. Thanks to J.V. The balance with the piano is quite different in the Bach. There is definitely a car starting up and driving off, in the cadenza in the last movement of the Locatelli. I can't quite tell which car. Doubt if it's a VW GC: it doesn't sound at all air-cooled to me, but perhaps I need to get better cables to be sure. Any views? On the car, I mean. (Smiley). Also see Don's excellent point on listening to the music, not the system. I agree with all that, strongly, but am not sure about identifying background cars.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2754
Registered: Dec-03
Crossing posts, Ghia. Thanks for the EyeTV link. We are back on analogue terrestrial TV and radio for a while. Satellite no longer needed. But I will keep it on file. Glad you liked the "Plunging" link. I think we have all learned some things, here, and it is interesting to look back.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 473
Registered: Oct-04
To all: trying to play catch-up. I know that I'm being "led" towards the Spendors - but my heart remains in B&W-land - at least until or if I can HEAR some Spendors. Which is probably "never."

Jan V. - a public thanks to you for your Online input on how best to deal with the red wine that our guests spilled on our cream-colored carpet. The stain is more than 90% gone - and I think we can get rid of the rest tomorrow? Hope so. . .

SiMac: glad to read that you're "branching out" in musical experiences - thanks to Jan V. as I read it. How nice of him! And how good for you!

John A. - I think your interim solutions to speaker placement deserves at least polite applause. WAF be, uh, "darned," your initiative shows resolute behavior, and manly execution! Good show, sir! (but what did you do with all of your waste paper, etc.?)

We're awaiting a cold front here in Swampville - supposed to get down to 32 F tonight - and I'll soon be away to cover plants and flowers. Sigh. At least we will have no snow!

And may "your team" win in the playoffs tonight.

More anon. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Ojophile

ON

Post Number: 228
Registered: Jun-04
To all:

Here's a link to Ken C. Pohlmann's article on the February 2005 issue of Sound and Vision Magazine, titled, "DVD-Audio, SACD: M.I.A."

Click on the link below and follow the website's current links

http://www.geocities.com/audiomatterz

The article's last sentence is sure to rile "stereo-heads" :-)

 

Bronze Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 15
Registered: Jan-05
Don,

At first I was a little riled at being called a "loser". But, then I recalled the last time I browsed through a Sound and Vision magazine, I thought it to be fairly shallow and pedestrian and didn't purchase it. I think his comment about "spatial realism" is debatable. Space, yes....realism, not really. And, one would think from reading Pohlmann that stereo-philes can't enjoy hi-resolution sound. Wrong again.

Don, I liked the other article you posted better. :-)
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1277
Registered: Aug-04
Don,

I thought Pohlman had it fairly right, not that i would agree ad hoc in anything any reviewer has to say. I mean really Sim, is there realism in stereo? I have never heard live/studio music sound like a stereo recording - and the same goes with surround I'll agree, but imho, it can take me much closer.

While testing our new speaker cable with hours of hi-res surround, we also listened to plenty of stereo in both cd and sacd formats. Yes, stereo can sound truly wonderful, but imho, when the engineeer/mixer does it right, surround hi-res is truly the sublime listening experience for me (and wife agrees).

Over the course of the next few weeks we will be visited on more than one occassion by an avid stereophile who is keen to assess our Denon DVD-2900 for sacd listening. I'll be very interested in his opinion of both the hi-res surround formats I intend to unleash on his delicate little two-way ears :-)


SMcI,

The ten days waiting for those Spendors will be a long ten days. They should sound wonderful - even for stereo listeining :-)

Larry,

I can't blame you for falling in love (or is that lust) with the 705's. The finish on the 7 & 8 series B&W's is something to behold and their sound, with the right source (like a NAD eg.) can be wondrous. I hope for your sake Mer's ears can detect their great contribution to musical enjoyment. But, IMHO, you'll still need a good sub - if not for the highs and lows in movies and music then for what it can do for the mids and highs in the music. Don't ask me how :-)

Rick,

Yes my friend, you got it - taking a nap - or perhaps that's the third best thing. LOL!



 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2755
Registered: Dec-03
Warmly recommended: Waitrose plant-pot stands, 62 cm; £16.50 each. Well made. Solid wood. Light but not pine. Could be sycamore. WAF-times-sound-quality equals more than that of shiny, hi-tech, "audiophile"-grade stands with spikes costing 10x more; more than Johnny Depp playing his guitar in "Chocolate". Cheap at the price. A snip.

Don;

Reviewers such as Ken C. Pohlmann could be one of the reasons for the slow take-up of DVD-A and SACD. With friends like that, who needs enemies? What a prat. Stereo is great. Anyone who listens to recorded music knows that.

But thanks for the link!

Larry,

http://www.spendoraudio.com/EXP800.HTM
Spendor distributors USA:
Q.S.& D.
Telephone: (1) 540 372 3711
Fax: (1) 540 372 3713
E-mail qsandd@aol.com
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1280
Registered: Aug-04
John A

Guess I'm a prat too :-)

 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2756
Registered: Dec-03
MR,

Posts cross. MR not prat. KCP prat. MR write better than KCP. Also write more sense.

Tough weekend. Excuse brevity. Streaming cold, too.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1282
Registered: Aug-04
John A

Thanks kemosabe, though I'm sure you noticed smiling face.

Streaming cold eh! Queensland - perfect one day, better the next :-)

Re the stands - if we didn't know better, we'd think you've gone potty. There won't be any daisies sprouting from your tweeters will there?

another :-)

 

Silver Member
Username: Ojophile

ON

Post Number: 229
Registered: Jun-04
John / MR: Interesting to note that the censorship police ("puritans" as John calls them) did not catch "prat." :-)

Talk about cold, eh? How does -35 Celsius (-31 F) with the wind chill in the last 4 days sound to ya? We've been cursin' and swearin' at the frigid temperatures we've been having. Need a break! Really.

Oh, did I mention snow and freezing rain?


 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1283
Registered: Aug-04
Don, John, Rick and other eskimoes,

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!! - you guys can have it!

We have a few days in winter where it might get down to 4 or 5 celcius and complain like heck! Nice to be spoilt in some way. I guess the cold is a good excuse to stay inside and listen to music or do other things - like in Ricks's case, having a nap :-)

This is what it has been like here lately:


Upload


I don't suppose that makes you feel better :-)

 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

While I would agree with Pohlmann on theories 5&6;

"Theory No. 5 Music's role is diminished in today's increasingly videocentric world. The success of DVD shows the power of video. Even in cars, that's the hot ticket. Unless music is accompanied by video, many people aren't interested in it as anything more than background accompaniment to their lives. High-definition TV, yes. High-definition music, no.

Theory No. 6 DVD-A and SACD are canaries in a coal mine. High fidelity is dead, killed off by file-sharing and MP3 players."

by the time I get to the end of this meaningless filler for which he was paid cash money;

"To be honest, the only losers out there are the people still listening in stereo."

I find Mr. Pohlmann no more honest than when he wrote for Stereo Review, but, still as much of a dickhead. I can only assume he threw away all of his two channel recordings.




 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

How about that? "Prat" and "dickhead" and the forum survived! But I still can't get by with G A Y !!! I am constantly amazed. Oh well, screw the whole friggin' system!


 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1284
Registered: Aug-04
I guess I must have a little Richard on my cranium also. The only thing I would add to Pohlman's comment would be another 'only'

"To be honest, the only losers out there are the people still listening in 'only' stereo."

I agree that these people are missing something wonderful, though I would not call them losers in a derogatory sense. Now it is (and I stress) 'my humble opinion' that for those who have heard hi-res surround and still prefer plain old stereo in cd or lp either have listened with either an inferior source or within the bounds of an ill set-up system. Or the recordings were just plain bad.

If that makes me a DH too then I'll just have to accept the fact and see about getting some customized headware.

:-)




 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 474
Registered: Oct-04
JV et al: Mr. Pohlmann is an "alleged" spoiler. End of rant. But there is real fear on my part that many of our younger folk will grow up without benefit of GOOD recorded sound. Will they miss it? Who can say. . . iPod for the masses, etc.

I am hard to sway - gang. The Spendors doth call my name - but weakly. for I am taken with the ambiance of the 705s - and thus do weaken so.

Mer tonight said I need to get my "final stereo" system all set up - price be damned. Huh? Is the lady trying to tell me some-ting? Hmmm. . . "final stereo" is so akin to "final solution" of decades ago.

But hark, what sound through yonder speaker doth come? It is the English, and it is good. . .

More anon (if Mer lets me live). . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 475
Registered: Oct-04
PS

My Rantz - you are a DH (tee-hee, grin)
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 476
Registered: Oct-04
PPS

Easy, Jan - with that much angst you might get your blood pressure up to, oh, say 82 over 40?

Stay calm.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1285
Registered: Aug-04
Seems to me Larry, few could be as fortunate as you - except maybe me.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 17
Registered: Jan-05
MR wrote:

"To be honest, the only losers out there are the people still listening in 'only' stereo."

I agree that these people are missing something wonderful, though I would not call them losers in a derogatory sense. Now it is (and I stress) 'my humble opinion' that for those who have heard hi-res surround and still prefer plain old stereo in cd or lp either have listened with either an inferior source or within the bounds of an ill set-up system. Or the recordings were just plain bad.


Glad that's just your humble opinion. I'll, of course, respectfully disagree. :-) Basically, you are saying that those of us who prefer stereo only do so because we have crappy systems or are inept at setting up a surround system? Why can't we be regarded as you ask to be, i.e. allowed to prefer stereo because that's what we like?? As someone who's been there (in surround - twice) and returned to stereo (both times), I don't feel like a loser or that I'm missing anything.

I don't believe my lack of interest in multichannel stemmed from an inferior system, a bad setup or exposure to only bad recordings (I have several Scheiner recording as well as the Steely Dan everyone raves about). It came about because I heard something that had a more visceral affect than anything I'd heard before and that something was what the Mac delivers. To be clear, I still prefer hi-resolution SACD/DVD-A (in stereo) over most redbook cd's. They benefit even more with the Mac. But, the listening experience with the MA6200 was so much of a revelation that even redbook CD's became preferable to surround for me.

I suppose I could venture back into surround down the road but I have serious doubts that I will because each time I've done so, I've always retreated. If I learn from my history, I won't go down that road again and will instead spend money on better speakers instead of more speakers.

Just my humble opinion, of course. :-) Don't look now, but I think the Old Dogs thread might be back "on-topic". :-)
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Larry - Coming on the heels of my historic footnote from earlier this week, Mer's pronouncement could be taken as a bit of worrisome news. I doubt you have much to worry about, however, unless she makes a remark about wanting your final system to be a real gas.

On to other topics, "it is (and I stress) 'my humble opinion' that for those who have heard" ... stereo ... "and still prefer plain old" ... surround ... "in cd or lp either have listened with either an inferior source or within the bounds of an ill set-up system. Or the recordings were just plain bad." I would add it could be a bad system, but that probably isn't necessary.

That's my humble opinion.



 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1286
Registered: Aug-04
Sorry SM,

I should have added more information. I tried to convey the fact that my opinion was that "loser" was a term for one who is missing out (not a lesser person in any respect) and I should have added (as you correctly scolded me) that some people just plain prefer stereo, as is their right to which I totally agree and hold nothing against such a preference. I am inept as a forum writer and should re-read my posts before submiting. As it is not hard to see, I have found a passion for excellent hi-res surround as others, such as yourself have a passion for stereo, Macs, Spendours and so forth.

My aim really was for those who continue to surreptitiously rebuke the surround formats for their inabilty to create a listening experience that is nowhere near what stereo does in portraying the actual event. And I say (that is - my opinion) poppycock! And I believe I have that right as much as the stereophile. If I appeared to infer that those who prefer stereo are losers then I humble apologise as it is my poor skills at making my point.

 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1287
Registered: Aug-04
I will also add that I didn't mean to infer that everyone is inept at setting up their surround systems. But, the fact is (from my readings here and elswhere) that many are. I don't think I am any better in this regard except that it took me some time to get things right and it was through research and perserverence that I was able to do this and benefit from the quest. There are many factors involved in setting up surround to bring out the best in both DVD-A and SACD together - not one or the other. Many users, I believe get a little confused and don't get it right - that's not saying that you guys can't, don't or didn't.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2122
Registered: Dec-03
Well as one who enjoys both formats just about as much as the other am
very glad we have both so I may have a choice as to what I listen to!

Glad to see a certain someone back in our precense and mr. rantz as you
said your post did come accross a little harsh and I'm glad you reitterated
excactly what you meant.

Just a note to simply SimplyMcIntosh as Jan had mentioned the amps in the nad
equipmeant does not compare with what the mac has so I'm just wondering if
you'd had the mac amps in surround format how you might have felt about the sound!

As my surround and 2 channel has had a major upgrade for me now that I
have the amps that I like the sound of "TUBES"

When I went to tubes I did not want to go back to solid state and felt the
sound inferior so I worked like crazy to create the sound I was looking for
in both formats and now I'm happy listening to surround and stereo again!
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2758
Registered: Dec-03
"Prat" was chosen because I drew the inference from the link that Don posted that people who still listen in stereo are "(Sad) losers".

My recommendation is to keep and cherish our CDs, LPs, whatever, and listen and enjoy, with the highest fidelity we can reach. It's the music!

I think only sad losers throw everything away to replace it with a new format. They have more money that I, I will admit that.

The question remains; if you had the choice, would you now buy a DVD-A/SACD disc or a stereo CD, of the same music; the same performance? Remembering that the DVD-A/SACD will play stereo, too; but the CD will not play mutichannel, unless you degrade the signal with Proplogic etc.

As Don summed up a while back "it depends on the music". I some cases there may be little benefit of moving to h-res. In other cases there definitely is.

That's my humble opinion.

That hat does not suit you, MR, and must be uncomfortable in the heat of a Queensland summer. (Smiley)
 

Bronze Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 18
Registered: Jan-05
Kegger,

Thanks for the welcome back. Yes, a Mac surround system might change the equation for me. lol. However, the law of diminishing returns is a factor. I know it's difficult for the MC lovers to understand but there comes a point when I have to question the return on investment when you start factoring in the extra equipment, extra speakers, extra connects, extra speaker cable etc. Not to mention the extra effort and headaches with getting the right configuration with speaker placement, DVD menus, A/V menus, sub crossovers, etc. It's a level of complexity I no longer want to incur.


The question remains; if you had the choice, would you now buy a DVD-A/SACD disc or a stereo CD, of the same music; the same performance? Remembering that the DVD-A/SACD will play stereo, too; but the CD will not play multichannel, unless you degrade the signal with Proplogic etc.

If the recording I want is on SACD/DVD-A, I will always buy that first. Unless, it happens to be one of those that are priced excessively higher (i.e. Elton John's Goodbye Yellow Brick Road. In that case, it would have to be an album with which I'm intimately familiar and love.

MR,

I'm not mad. :-) Just wanted to point out that in our forum, there are folks in the stereo camp and others in the MC camp and any comments outside of the technological aspect would be perceived as being directed at those in the respective camp.

 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 759
Registered: Dec-03
SimplyMacIntosh,

I think you missed my welcome back post on 1/23, so I will gladly say it again....... WELCOME BACK!
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 477
Registered: Oct-04
Jan V. - Yeah, Mer DID say something about "gas," as a matter of fact. I just thought she was talking about the car and its near-empty gas tank? Gotta talk to her about dat! (GRIN)

As one who probably fits the description "inept loser," I'd just like to add a couple of penny's worth of comments.

On the CD vs. SACD - With so many new (or analog re-masters) SACDs coming onto the market, I try to find the music I want in that format. But I also try to read any and all reviews before I make the purchase. Sometimes - as several of you have wisely pointed out - the sound quality on a given album is not as good as it should be. Thus, I have to weigh my choices - to buy CD or SACD, to not buy at all? It's a record-by-record decision for me.

As to stereo/surround? Well, as I've posted before, I listen to most music in 2-channel, yes, even the SACDs. However, in certain cases, such as the Mahler SACDs, the surround mode DOES lend an aura of "completeness" that the 2-channel cannot convey to me.

I know that SimplyMcIntosh is quite right in her assessment of the Mac versus about any other amp, yes, including the "wonderful!" NAD that she so kindly let me adopt. And, though I'm staying clear of the tube/solid state discussion, I understand the passion with which Kegger et al embrace the technology.

As an ardent "fence-straddler" I again say that whatever makes the music sound closest to "the way I want it to sound" well - that's "it" for me.

Sometimes I think that the really, really old, monaural systems were the best! You just put on an LP, turned up the volume, and listened to the music. No surround settings, no digital/analog switches, no speaker-distance settings, nothing of the sort. Hmmm. . . noticed that there IS a "mono" setting - - maybe. . . . .

More anon. . .
 

Bronze Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 19
Registered: Jan-05
Rick,

I may be back but that doesn't necessarily mean I can keep up. lol. See what happens when you have a rare slow day at work? You fall back into old temptations. Thank you for the welcome back - both times. We're working on that Nobel nomination.

Let's see if I can catch up on a few acknowledgements:

Lar - yes, SMac as in "smack". The Nun still has nothing on me. Oh wait, she does "whack"...never mind.

Now, about this "branching out" musically, I've noticed that folks like Kegger and I try to broaden our exposure to classical music but, I've yet to hear you or JohnA or JanV tell me about your Aimee Mann (or insert similar pop artist) experience - at least, beyond the visuals of the Discoveries thread. Lar, you may have been boycotting the forum during that time. Here's a link to the memories: Original Discoveries. Now, that you and Don are in charge of running the Discoveries thread it has attained a level of class and culture we would not have imagined possible back in July 2004.

MR - going back to your 1/20 post:

Well if she has I certainly hope I run into her. I'll offer my sincere apologies for upsetting her on this forum (as unintentional as it was), invite her home to meet my wonderful wife, offer her a drink or ten and then let her listen to hi-res music on a real surround system. Then Mrs Rantz and I would console her after she becomes upset for selling her NAD to Larry, buying that MAC amp, and wondering how she could ever have gone back to plain ol' stereo.

Then we could possibly go sightseeing with Ms Cabriolet and show off our glorious beaches - if I'm lucky she might even roll her top down.


Apology accepted and I will extend my own apologies to you for insults I hurled your way.

As for the invitation, it is conditionally accepted on the premise that I may bring Mac/Spendors for the ultimate showdown. We'll use your Denon 2900 for the source and your Kimber Kables. Be prepared to weep, at first. But then, you'll have the realization of the extra cash you can gain by selling off those unnecessary components and speakers. Or, maybe you'll decide to keep the surround for movies but will setup a special listening room for the ulimate music listening experience in stereo. It's nothing shameful, MR, so don't be afraid.

JohnA:

The Starker cello sonatas MLP CD is superb. Thanks to J.V. The balance with the piano is quite different in the Bach. There is definitely a car starting up and driving off, in the cadenza in the last movement of the Locatelli. I can't quite tell which car. Doubt if it's a VW GC: it doesn't sound at all air-cooled to me, but perhaps I need to get better cables to be sure. Any views? On the car, I mean. (Smiley). Also see Don's excellent point on listening to the music, not the system. I agree with all that, strongly, but am not sure about identifying background cars.

I meant to listen to that part again because it is not something I noticed (or maybe my speakers aren't reproducing it.) Will make a point to do so this week. I'll be able to tell you if it is a VW. :-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Ojophile

ON

Post Number: 230
Registered: Jun-04
Now, that you and Don are in charge of running the Discoveries thread it has attained a level of class and culture we would not have imagined possible...

SimplyMcIntosh,

Wow! Thank you very much! That certainly cheered me up --- honestly --- considering that today is supposed to be "the worst day of the year", according to a British psychologist.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6847012/

I'm working on late shift today (technical support) and the wind chill and forecast of snow late this afternoon aren't exactly welcome news on a frigid Monday.

Well, nothing like a good CD, LP or what-have-you to cheer me up after a long day or night. Enjoy your music in whatever format you prefer.

Cheers! Stay warm wherever you may be.
Don


 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2123
Registered: Dec-03
SimplyMcIntosh: Thanks for the response and glad yur here!

"I know it's difficult for the MC lovers to understand but there comes a point when I have to question the return on investment when you start factoring in the extra equipment, extra speakers, extra connects, extra speaker cable etc. Not to mention the extra effort and headaches with getting the right configuration with speaker placement, DVD menus, A/V menus, sub crossovers, etc. It's a level of complexity I no longer want to incur."

As one who enjoys both I DO understand where your coming from and agree if your
not going to do it right and spend the time plus cash then yes there really is
no sense in it. If one does not enjoy tinkering with there system plus the menu's
and what not that you mention and the screen to go along with it, you are quite right!

Then you have some of us who enjoy are movies and a surround sound is "needed"
that it's just a natural progression to do multi audio since we allready need
to set it up right for that purpose might as well go the extra mile and make it
work for audio also. That's my thought anyway!

I'm still not sure which format I enjoy more but at least if I've got it setup
then I don't have to make the choice.
Yes tinkering with my system is a passion and I have spent a lot of time and money on it.

I think I believe the same as mr rantz that when it's setup right with quality
gear it's a very nice experience (and I believe at one time you enjoyed it)
It's just the ones that want to dismiss it as an inferior product that gets us going.

Cheers all!
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1288
Registered: Aug-04
SimplyMacIntosh,

Thank you for your grace. A showdown downunder - wonderful idea - no fear, no shame.

Now, about the Mac/Spendor stereo combo - I don't doubt its excellence for musical appreciation, though after your senses have been caressed by the etheral, sublime, honeydripping, clear as a mountain stream, melodies drifting with a warm, natural, wondrous, silky smoothness from our Marantz/JBL/B&W/Denon/Kimber combo, you'll then, after floating gently back down to earth in a state of sheer ecstasy, be offered a plentiful serving of delicious humble pie :-)




 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 479
Registered: Oct-04
SimplyMcIntosh: Sigh. Ok, Ok, I gotta confess. I finally found some "pop" music - to expand my horizons, you unnerstand! (grin)

Actually, it is a CD copy of an LP (I guess) and so I thought that my friend who sent it to me was up-to-date. Well, now, if this is "pop" music, hey, it's not so bad after all!

Yes, there is a quirkiness about it. Rather simplistic song-form, but an honest presentation. But I'd never heard of the group - not surprising.

So - into the CD player it went this morning. I have to admit I thought the CD was a joke - but once I really "got into" the music, it became quite apparent that I'd been missing an entire chunk of music-appreciation!

So, my friend, I'm starting out a-fresh and hoping that perhaps one of the local stations may play more of this group's music. While Mer is away from home, of course!

If any of you has this group as a "favorite," I'd also like your input, as I will now try to hear more of their performances.

Oh, yes - the group is "Herman and the Hermits." Must be a new British group? Hmmm. . .
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1289
Registered: Aug-04
Kegger

.........YEP!.........


Except - today when tinkering with the sound levels, I left the amp on at the zero volume level and proceeded to play a disc. A mighty booming vibration filled the room and I dived for the volume control. Just in the nick of time it seems. Phew!

 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1290
Registered: Aug-04
Larry,

Did it go like this:

"Mrs Brown you've got a lovely daughter
Girls as sharp as her are something rare
But it's sad - she doesn't love me now
She's made it clear enough, it ain't no good to pine

Walking around - even in a crowd now
You'd pick 'er out - makes a guy feel - so proud . . ."

Yeah, they're pretty new - circa 1960 something :-)

 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 480
Registered: Oct-04
Don RX-1 - The "worst day of the year?" you say? Well, now, mine started out that way. . .

Got up - turned on furnace, as it was 35 degrees outside, and 59 degrees inside. Walked outside to get paper. Noticed that somebody's air conditioning was on. Walked closer. Found it was MY AC!! Huh?

Ran back inside. Yep, BOTH the heat and the air conditioning were on. OOPS. . . turned all off. Began to chant.

Thought of high AC repair bills. Took action. Took apart thermostat. Checked switches and contacts. Cleaned contacts with pencil erasor. Put all back together. Crossed fingers.

Click. (one, two, three four) Whoosh - on came the blower. To the window - and NO air conditioner sound! Must have been loose or dirty contacts. Whew!

Went into living room. Tried to play CD. CD player made horrible sound. Stopped. Found "old" problem with new player - the spindle is so tight that some CDs have to have the center hole very lightly "sanded" for them to fit. Sanded CD. It worked.

Tried to play CD again. Remote control didn't work. Again. Tried all buttons. Zero. Gave up.

Went into den, to use computer. Fired it up. It did a "hard crash." Took on-and-offs and battery unplugs. An hour later, it worked (again).

So - how was YOUR day? I've got heat, and music, and Lola Laptop and FOR THE MOMENT all is well. I'm afraid to get out of my chair. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Ojophile

ON

Post Number: 231
Registered: Jun-04
The only part that I agree with in Pohlmann's article is "Theory No. 5 Music's role is diminished in today's increasingly videocentric world. The success of DVD shows the power of video. Even in cars, that's the hot ticket. Unless music is accompanied by video, many people aren't interested in it as anything more than background accompaniment to their lives. High-definition TV, yes. High-definition music, no.

"Unless music is accompanied by video..." illustrates the sad fact that there is a dearth of good music out there. IMO, there are very few songwriters today who can really write good meaningful songs. Songs that don't need video to convey their meaning or intent. Sarah McLachlan, perhaps, or Norah Jones, or Aimee Mann (yes, I've heard before).

Can today's record producers blame the baby boomers for turning away and heading back to their musical roots? If the record industry is to revamp and eventually redeem itself, it has to bring back record producers who really understand and care for the music more than the business of selling it. It has to have more of the likes of George Martin, Herb Alpert, Tommy LiPuma (for Michael Franks, Natalie Cole, George Benson, Diana Krall, etc.), Clive Davis, Dave Grusin/Larry Rosen, Norman Granz, etc. to initiate some sort of rebirth, a "renaissance" if you will, to today's music. I think that's one of the things that will help DVD-A and/or SACD succeed and eventually win consumers' hearts. For now, most of us will be content with multi-channel reissues of music that we've always loved. Others will continue to hold on to their CD and LP collections because that's where the real stuff is, musically.

=================

Herman's Hermits... from the 60's... brought hits like "Mrs. Brown You've Got a Lovely Daughter, "There's a Kind of Hush (All Over the World)", "I'm into Something Good".

 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 481
Registered: Oct-04
My Rantz - no WONDER I don't hear them! Circa 1960 you say. Well, what the heck - I didn't hear them then, so I might as well now! (GRIN)

Think I'm going to play the second half of the CD, the liner note says something about "the Grateful Dead" - sounds terrible, but I might as well give them a listen, eh? Yep. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Ojophile

ON

Post Number: 232
Registered: Jun-04
There's a kind of hush
All over the world tonight
All over the world
And I'm feeling good just holding you tight

La-la la-la-la-la-la-la
La-la la-la-la-la-la...


sure beats Sinatra's do-bee-do-bee-do-dee-dee-dee-da ("Strangers In The Night")

Have to go to work now and start the late shift.

Easy, Larry. Things always have a happy ending.

Don
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 482
Registered: Oct-04
Don: They DO? (be-doo-be-doo) Hmmm. . .
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1291
Registered: Aug-04
Larry, Don

BTW - I recall the words Of the "hermits" song because I was at high school at the time and was in lust/love (whatever it's called at 15) with Mrs Browns daughter.

I used to get the song played on the radio - until Mrs brown heard it :-(
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 483
Registered: Oct-04
Rantz - great story! Made me smile - which today I need!
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1292
Registered: Aug-04
Glad to help Larry - now, back to bed for me!

Night all - night Johnboy!
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 484
Registered: Oct-04
To all: UH-OH! Put on the CD. Shoudn't have done it. The group was Terrible! I think the title should be a truism - greatful dead! You'd think at least they could play in tune! Nope.

finally had to turn it off (after two minutes) Now playing a fine CD of Magdalena Kozena singing French Arias - with the Mahler Chamber Orchestra. Now THAT'S fine "pop" music!! (double grin)
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

My experiments into pop music culture are limited by the budget I have to spend on music. I have tried several new artists (I won't mention who since doing so might rile a fan of this or that performer) and find most of the lot sadly lacking in originality. As Ghia has pointed out, they don't make a Patsy Cline everyday. More likely my guess would be a Patsy Cline is not allowed to emerge in today's market. It may be old phart syndrome creeping (or rushing) in, but too many items on the shelves sound remarkably similar; packaged and produced for a short term attention span. I find very few where I want to hit repeat several times after a signature moment. In fact, most of the pop music I come across can have the pause button activated and I can go do something else for hours and not feel the need to return to hear how that song ends. Also I think I've mentioned on the forum the curse of an audio salesperson is there are albums that become unlistenable at home. After hearing DSOTM over and over for twenty + years, even the SACD was a bit of a groan. Finally, there appears to be a need for a living artist to make larger royalties on their products than those performers who are gathering money for their estate. How else can I explain the prices on some of the new material.

For me the question is often not will I buy a disc in SACD, but, will I replace a disc in SACD. If I have a disc that I find acceptable musically, will I replace it when the SACD version becomes available. The Mercury SACD's present this problem. Will I find it worthwhile to spend the money to get a third (center) channel? In this case I find the reviews of discs to be just slightly helpful. And then there is the problem of the digitally remastered product not having the spirit of the original. The Elvis disc which I sent to Ghia is a good example of how today's sensibilties toward an artist can ruin the original performance of an artist.

As for the Starker disc, I didn't notice the automobile until John pointed it out in an email. I listened on the the Mac & LS3/5a system and still heard nothing. I played it on the HT system with a subwoofer and the car was obviously there. Since this adds nothing to the performance, the disc was returned to the stereo system. This sort of minutiae was for years the province of the "best" stereo systems, and, was discussed widely in the underground press as being the hallmark of a good system. Many a product was dismissed in the market for the simple reason a listener couldn't detect which performer in a group was tapping their foot while needing the soles of their shoes replaced. There is probably a definitive answer to the type of auto heard in the Starker recording. Anyone wanting to find the answer should begin looking through their back issues of The Absolute Sound since this sort of detail was the province of HP and his lackeys. More than likely any review including the Infinity IRS speakers which formed the heart of HP's reference system (after many modifications which were unavailable to the general public) would go into detail about this bit of trivia. I can tell you it is not a VW.

**********************

"I think I believe the same as mr rantz that when it's setup right with quality
gear it's a very nice experience (and I believe at one time you enjoyed it)
It's just the ones that want to dismiss it as an inferior product that gets us going."

I suppose I've moved past wanting a "very nice" experience. A very nice dog is one that is well behaved and doesn't crap in my yard. A great dog is one that leaps in the air with all four feet off the ground when I arrive home; jumps on the couch with me to get in my face for some special attention; wags its tail constantly; barks infrequently; is always willing to play with a slobbery ball or stck; will lay at my feet for hours while I listen to music; enjoys a bit of beer with me in the evening; is ready to go for a ride in the car at any time; loves hanging his head out the window; and, looks at me as if I were the only best friend he has. In short, a great dog is one with an infinitely enjoyable personality. I expect the same out of my audio system. It should have a variety of personalities that are determined by the music I choose. Here I find most surround systems have a homogenized sound that, the more they sound like surround systems, is, at best, very nice. On the other hand, the more a surround system sounds like a stereo system the more personality it can show. But, if it has to emulate a stereo system to do its best; what's the point of the extra stuff? Therefore, I say, death to all "very nice" systems.

And, Kegger, I would point out that you, at one time, enjoyed your solid state system. Now that you've listened to tubes, I gather you have a hard time understanding what it was about transistors that you found so appealling. Replacing the wow factor of the transistors with the music of the tubes seems to have worked for you. It would seem logical that Ghia could replace the wow factor of her surround system with the music of a better stereo system and find her HT stuff had really just been "very nice".


Finally, it doesn't seem that any discussion of stereo vs. surround should get anyone going. We've all accepted the fact that we all can accept what the other likes just because they like it. I hope that's what we've accepted. Have I missed it again? What's to get upset about? After all, we are only talking about hifi's here.






 

Bronze Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 20
Registered: Jan-05
Good grief, you people are prolific! :-) I'm at work so don't have time to get completely caught up.

Lar, will send you some good pop music. Although, Herman's Hermits and Grateful Dead are good starts. :-)
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1293
Registered: Aug-04
Goddam, that one woke me up again!

Well Jan,

Sure, everyone is entitled to their opinion, even those whose stereo doesn't crap in their yard. Nothing to get upset over at all - except when their flamin' stereo craps in my yard :-)

BTW - I'll take a very experience anytime - there's too few of them these days.
 

Gold Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1294
Registered: Aug-04
Guess y'all wondrin wot a very experience is huh?
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2124
Registered: Dec-03
well jan as you say weve taken many of your posts the wrong way as you have mine!

When I say a very nice experience it is not a wow factor thing as you call it!

I find stereo to be a nice experience also, same as surround be it movies or music.

And my point about what I said regarding ghia was that at one time she enjoyed
the surround music format and had on some titles prefered the surround to stereo.
So my observation was that like myself once I heard better stereo then I was
use to, made me question the setup of my multichannel. So to do it
justice needed to let the surround benefit from the same thing stereo did.
Because if I did not then I'm trying to gauge a system that in stereo had
better equipment "to me" then my surround setup did!
so it's not a far test.

It would seem neither me nor you will ever agree on some topics and that is fine
but to belittle ones choices is where either one of us would be wrong.

You have mentioned in the past you enjoy black and white movies/tv and
that your not a big surround fan for movies or music plus feel the center
channel is not really neded and there are not many if any new music for you.

I for one dislike black and white movies, can't live without my surround
for the movies I watch and feel the center channel is very much needed.
I also enjoy many new artists and feel there is no difference in the quality
of performers to this age then any other, just they are different now. when
elvis first came out people were like, what is that crap now he's an idol.
Things come around and what many don't like now will become classics in the future!

So weather you embrace new artists or surround has no bearing because many
others do and feel they are just as good if not better then there predacessors.

So we can both enjoy what we like and describe the things we don't like
and our feelings on why we believe so. But were not going to change each
others fealings by continuing to say and do the same things over and over
while coming up with cute anolagies to get ones old dogs accross!

If we really want to try and figure if there is a major benefit to one format
we need to think outside the box and try different ideas or thought process.

As I had mentioned when I went to tubes I thought the sound was much
better than solid state so that made me think if tubes were the awnser for surround!
Trying a different approach!

Just giving up on the whole technology because one believes the other format
is better is just selling out to the old technology.
The same would be true of the opposite. If one just wants to simplify and relagate
to stereo because they find it satisfying to them that is fine also. But to
shun a format because one believes the other is better is the wrong approach.

If you enjoy one format and find that it works for you and don't want the
hassle that goes along with setting up the other is fine to.
But as I and many others feel it's well worth the hassle and don't mind
experimenting if that's what it takes!
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 486
Registered: Oct-04
SiMac: Wow! Whadda deal! Yer gonna send me some pop music of my very own! Actually, I'll probably get a kick out of it, li'l gal, so - Bring It On!

Oh - the CD I was playing was a kinda joke sent to me by a friend. It was taped off a classical music station several weeks ago - a tongue-in-cheek "test" for the listeners to see if anybody could identify the performers. There were 20 song fragments played - and my friend said that NONE of the listeners got all 20. Remember, this was a classical FM station. Uh-huh.

without labels, I was able to identify five of the 20 only. From my youth, most of them.

I know that - to some on this forum - I may sound "stuffy" in my music tastes. Please - I do not mean to be. But I grew up with classical and opera - so my listening habits were set even before I was five years old. As a teenager, I "dropped out" and listened to a lot of pop, but gave it up to jazz and classical in college. And as I was playing both jazz and classical music (clarinet or sax mostly) it stayed with me.

Kegger: I've gotta say that I admire you "jumping off" into the wunnerful world of tubes - and I hope that you are finding something there that you did not find in solid state. Jan's comments that you must have initially liked solid state I feel are challenging, but not something I'd sit up nights getting upset about. He has his opinions, and is often very blunt about them. (and I know I'll get a dressing-down from him on this, too! GRIN)

So - don't worry - be happy, as the good ole reggae song teaches. And keep us all in the loop on what you're finding and what you're hearing with your tube amps. Now that Rick is coming into your camp, well, this should be interesting reading for the rest of us!

I'm having a hard enough time trying to get my own listening problems ironed out, and thus probably "gloss over" some of your comments. But I read them all - as I do every word that Jan posts. But you and Jan will never "meet in the middle," so just get on with your life and maybe yell at me a little - heck, I haven't been yelled at by anybody in at least 15 minutes! (double grin)

For yet another time - I listen to both stereo and multi-ch - depending. I like both - depending. And I'd probably like tube amps (as I did in my youth) to be pleasing, as well. But right at the moment, I've adopted this li'l NAD, and it needs feeding and coaxing - so that's my current passion. Remind me of this in about a year - heck, there might be tubes in my future, too!

My Rantz - heck, we ALL know what a "very experience" is - it's one that is just so over-the-top that words can't express it. It's just "very!" See - we are not as uninformed as you think we are! We're just COLD! (grin)
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 487
Registered: Oct-04
Well - Johnny Carson's gone. Does anybody know if "Herman's Hermits" are gone, too? Jest wunnering. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Ojophile

ON

Post Number: 233
Registered: Jun-04
You mean, as a band? Herman's Hermits are long gone. So are Gary and The Pacemakers, Peter and Gordon, Chad and Jeremy, Dave Clark Five, The Association, The Critters, etc. The former members have moved on as producers, businessmen, cattle ranchers, or other. Of course, you know what happened to John Lennon and George Harrison.

Take heart. There were pop groups back then that could really write good songs that you can sing, hum, whistle, and enjoy. I'm not kidding, but my 80-something mother has learned to like some of the more melodic Beatles' songs (Yesterday, Michelle, Let It Be, She's Leaving Home). Jazz is my main stuff. I can't stand country music --- that's a personal statement, no offense meant to any country music fan. I like classical music, too, and pop and rock, but as you say --- depending. That is, depending on how well the music was written and performed. And yes, I'm open to whatever format (2-ch or MC) the music is recorded on, as long as the music comes first.

But do you ever wonder why rock and pop music are, well, popular? Similarly, why is the CD so popular and so well accepted? Is it because they (the music and the CD) are easily accessible?

On the other hand, why are jazz and classical music appreciated only by certain audiences? And similarly, why are the DVD-A and SACD known only to audiophiles and a limited market? Is it because they (the music and the two formats) require some understanding? Perhaps they are intimidating, at least to the uninitiated?

 

Bronze Member
Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 21
Registered: Jan-05
Don,

I think there are many reasons why jazz and classical do not have a wide audience. The suggestions you made about requiring some understanding as well as being intimidating are spot on but are only part of the story. Here are a few things I think:

People like to hear a story being told, preferably one with which they can either sympathize or empathize. For many, hearing the story requires lyrics which many classical/jazz offerings don't have.

Music is a victim of budget cuts in schools and kids are not getting exposed to jazz and classical.

Generation X-ers were raised by parents who grew up listening to Rock'n'Roll and, in many cases, didn't get that exposure to jazz and classical of the previous generations.

Today's society is all about instant gratification, s e x, and appearances.

Previous point came about because video killed the radio star - which also has contributed to the more "disposable" pop music of today.

That's a start, I suppose....



 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2125
Registered: Dec-03
"Generation X-ers were raised by parents who grew up listening to Rock'n'Roll and, in many cases, didn't get that exposure to jazz and classical of the previous generations."

Y. E. P. THAT'S ME! But I try others really.lol



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