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Archive through January 09, 2005

 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2719
Registered: Dec-03
I agree with Sem. Beautifully put, Two Cents. Thanks.

Having just read Jan's post, I agree with that, too, and see no incompatibility with 2c's comments. We have to put up with the crap so that we ourselves can judge which is which. That is not as erudite as Pound and Orwell, I admit.

This links to Larry; who cares what the guy in Stereophile thinks? Why should it get to us? Read, think, and make up your own mind. That's all he did. We hope. I thought it was pretty good.

BTW Last weekend BBC radio 3 had a jokey balloon debate, with some very erudite speakers. First out was Stravinsky. Second was Wagner (it was a close call which of those went first). That left Beethoven and Bach, also a close call. Bach made it to the end by a few votes. Of all the people, his spokesperson was Germaine Greer.

Come back, My Rantz, all is forgiven.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 373
Registered: Oct-04
Two Cents: As a "recovering journalist," I agree with your consternation when dealing with the media - especially TV. Those of us who grew up with "Murrow's Boys" were taught, rather vigorously: "get it first, but get it right!" And the even more important rule: "the news - not you the reporter - is what matters."
Today, of course, the hair-spray set is everywhere, and jostling for attention TO THEMSELVES, not to the news event they are "supposed" to be reporting.
such it is, and will ever be, unless an asteroid hits earth and wipes us all off the planet. Hey, now there's. . . .
But I fear, sir, that turning our backs on the media is akin to a "head in the sand" approach to living. It allows all manner of evil to proliferate with fewer governors (small "g") to deal with the situation.
Frankly, I get 90% of my news from the papers and news magazines. The other 10% is split between NPR radio and TV. I tend to shake my fists and yell: "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!" far less that way. Plus, it helps my blood pressure! (grin)

Jan V.- wipe that smirk off yer face, sir, as you mention "only two cables." I know what your evil intent is: to hobble all of us who dare to use (pardon the expression) "surround" in our listening. (grin)
But I'll think about it. . .

Music: The arrangement of sounds in time to produce a continuous composition with melody, rhythm and timbre. How about dat?
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2720
Registered: Dec-03
Amazing links, Jan. Surely the first post in the second link was a joke? Come on, own up!

The reply seemed to be, essentially, "don't give up with your new amplifier; with a bit of careful adjustment, you can make it sound just as bad as the old one".
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 388
Registered: Feb-04
Jan,

I'm not advocating disengaging from the world or current events. But we have to be careful in what we engage.

For example, when selecting audio equipment, if we turn to the "mass" media for guidance (Stereophile, TAS, et al.), we're confronted with nothing but glowing reviews. The motives for these mass media outlets are questionable. Can you say "advertising dollars"? Their prime motive in my opinion is to sell stuff. After all they have to feed their families and their hobby. But you go to a website such as this one, where individuals can share knowledge without any ulterior motives. This type of sharing of knowledge is more democratic and less Orwellian than passively soaking in the drivel of mass media mouthpieces for corporate and government interests.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2721
Registered: Dec-03
Magnificent, 2c. I agree.

Best "music" definition yet, Larry. Your very own?! Harmony is pretty good, too, but not essential, I admit. Not sure "timbre" is essential, either.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 374
Registered: Oct-04
Don: Oops - trying to leap-frog along the thread, and posted before I got yours. Sigh.
It was Mer, not I, who disliked the "coating" on the Paradigms. Mer said that, with an $850 price tag, we should get real wood - not vinyl. I kinda agree.
Now, with the NAD, I'd like to hear some other speakers in our house. The B & Ws I can't afford, and the B-25s are nowhere available. Even the shop in Sarasota only gets them in when a customer orders them. No showroom anywhere near.
Yes, Ghia and I worked out an agreement that is good for both of us, I think. Basically she gave me a fair price, and in taking the NAD off her hands without having the hassle of Online or newspaper ad-responders, it made it easier on her, too.

John A. - why should I care what the Stereophile guy thinks? Well, because he had some good information first, and some thoughtful presentation second. Doesn't mean I can't think for myself, does it? Heck, I read LOTS of articles, etc., where opinion is expressed. In some cases that opinion helps me form my own, just as opinions I read on this forum help me form my own opinions.
So I do care what others write, John. If I didn't, I wouldn't be responding to your post, would I? Maybe I'm a bit confused with that one paragraph of yours? In the end, you thought the Stereophile chap was "pretty good." Hmmm. . .
Now everybody - I'm not starting a row with John, so don't anybody get defensive, please. OK?

More anon. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 375
Registered: Oct-04
John A. - well, that only leaves us with "rhythm," which by itself might be music to the ears of a grouse, say, or the likes - but hardly true "music" as most people would label it.
(grin)
And if you withhold timbre you won't be able to tell an oboe from a harmonica - for each produces its own unique "timbre." All you'd have is some sort of tone - not even sure what that would be! You can look it up.

More anon. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 376
Registered: Oct-04
Jan V. - "stereo" - hmmm - Mr. "Sinkdrain" (oh, man, cut me a break!) openeth a can of worms verily.
Dictionary says stereophonic uses 2 OR MORE channels to realistically reproduce music.
On the NAD, as on most amps, I'd guess - "stereo" settings involve two channels - BUT - can "augment" those two with such things as Dolby Pro Logic, Neo:6, etc.
I think I'll be more careful from now on, and refer to stereo as "two-channel" sound.
That's what you prefer, Jan - right? Just pure 2-channel without PLII, Neo:6 or other such.
NOW - letting the rest of the cats out of the bag - if one "pollutes" 2-channel stereo with signal processing, don't you then leave the world of "stereo" and enter the world of "surround?"
Hmmm. . . go to it, guyz!!!!! I'll sit back and read.
 

Silver Member
Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 389
Registered: Feb-04
Larry R,

If you think the Paradigms should have real wood veneer, stay away from Triangle speakers. I just auditioned two grand speakers with fake wood veneer. They were touted highly in Stereophile (what isn't), but were disappointing to my ears. I was blown away though by Audio Physic speakers that are way beyond my budget, but I may look for them used. I'm trying not to judge too much on looks, but rather the musicality. It's hard though.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2077
Registered: Dec-03
Yes I am curious as to what music means to others!

because I feal that I'm fairly simple in the fact that just about any sound
can be music for me.

From as simple as beating on a peace of wood with a pleasing rythym to a full
blown orchestra to someone singing pleasing tones in a language I don't understand.

The music could have a continous rythym or maybe stop abruplty and change
pace or voice or pitch or timbre, maybe even a monotone humm.

Anything from munks chanting to the solo of angus young!

But for some reason I can't find the twangy music of country pleasing! "go figure"
 

Silver Member
Username: Black_math

Post Number: 200
Registered: Dec-03
I don't understand why the US media isn't as concerned with the 100,000+ citizens of Iraq that have been killed over the past year. The US media also wasn't concerned when Charles Taylor was comitting some of the most horrific war crimes the world has ever seen. In fact I don't believe that I have seen anybody soliciting contributions for citizens of Iraq, Liberia, or Sierra Leone, but they sure do love natural disasters.


Jan,

There are great songwiters out there writing great songs (words and music). Being from Texas, I'm sure you have heard Steve Earle. The problem is that the music industry is very fragmented with the majority of radio stations owned by a handful of media corporations. The airwaves are flooded by crap (does Ashley Sipmson have any talent?)
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

"I know what your evil intent is: to hobble all of us who dare to use (pardon the expression) "surround" in our listening."

We have on this forum reached the decision that the use of surround, IF YOU LIKE IT, is a crime for which you should be found - NOT guilty. If you use it and don't like it; well, that's another subject. And what's with this "evil" stuff?

"That's what you prefer, Jan - right? Just pure 2-channel without PLII, Neo:6 or other such."

I know not this language you employ.


2c - A major problem I have with the world as it exists today is the "democratic" nature of the internet. It was certainly a problem when I was selling. There are no checks and balances on the web. Look at any political blog for proof of that. The idea that the web is self correcting is a propaganda tool started by those who wish to supplant the method of information dissemination that has been successful and productive for several thousand years. If you believe anything, don't belive anything you read on the web.

I have told of my neighbor who, when offered a pair of Definitive Technology towers free of charge to replace his 6X9 car speakers in a homemade box, replied he would have to take a look on the web before he could decide whether to accept what I felt to be a fairly generous offer. He declined the speakers.

My main objection to the web is that in all cases "Their prime motive in my opinion is to sell stuff". Whether they are selling a product or an idea, they are far more insidious than the mass merchant whose raison d'etre is apparent.







"don't give up with your new amplifier; with a bit of careful adjustment, you can make it sound just as bad as the old one."

That was good for a third laugh today. Thanks.


"Yes I am curious as to what music means to others!"

Check "British Sound".





 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Kegger - If you don't pay much attention to words, classical music should be perfect for you. You still haven't commented on your Mercury purchase.


 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 377
Registered: Oct-04
Kegger: "going to figger" is easy, my friend. It all harks back to the word: "subjectivity." I happen to like Gregorian Chant. Some of you reading this will think me insane. (well. . .)
Kegger likes Rock. I think him insane. (grin) No, seriously - we all have and make choices, and there doesn't have to be any real "reason" for those choices. Some sounds appeal to me (like a dinner bell) and some repell me - like the compositions of many "modern" composers who use 12-tone scale or other non-traditional forms of composition.
When Tchaikovsky was trying to sell his symphonies, he was met with severe criticism that his works were "shrill and incompatible with the human ear." Today, of course, Tchaikovsky's works are considered rather main stream.
I don't "like" Country either, Kegger. So we agree on one thing!
Go your way - you seem to have a good grasp on what you do like. So? Be happy with it!

Ben James - you have to look hard, sir, but many in the media have taken a look and reported on the 100-thousand citizens killed in Iraq. However, because (and I hate to even bring this up) that news isn't "sexy," well, it doesn't get front page, above-the-fold coverage.
And TV/radio editors have long ago realized that it is hard to get the American people in an uproar over Iraqi citizens. At least not unless our Marines go out and machine-gun thousands of them at one time. Now THAT would be a story - and a headline. But those thousands of civilians were not killed "all at once." Therefore - no Big Story.
The closer to home, the more relevant the news. And as many Americans, Europeans, etc. were caught up in the tsunami, it tugs at a lot of local heartstrings.
Plus - remember - it's PICHURS! There - in livid color - don't even have to know how to read or spell. It Bleeds!!! Therefore - it "leads."
Having spent some 30 years fighting with editors, I know of your frustration. But I also know that if I were to get on the air and do a long story about those Iraqi citizens to whom you refer - my viewers/listeners for the most part would nod off - the editors would descend - and that would end that.
You have stated that the tsunami isn't any different than an explosion, fire, mudslide, or, for that matter, an airline crash.
If you refer to loss of a human life, you are right. One human life is like another.EXCEPT. The tsunami is BIG! It's Color! It's a race among those reporter-mopes to see who can get the juiciest pictures and one-line quotes. And above all - it is RATINGS!
So, Ben, you have your points. But about the only thing you can do is to write a "letter to the editor."
Remember - I told you - "If it Bleeds, It Leads!" And Iraqi civilian casualties don't bleed "enough" to make a banner, or a headline, or a TV-tease or a radio bulletin. Sorry. . .

Jan V. - you old sly dog, you. You think you're going to out-dissemble me on this stereo thang, don't you? Eh? Well - UR rite. Take the reins, and have a nice, Pro Logic(al) day! Surely my tongue doth smart from cheek-insertion. (or something like that)
Luv you too! (grin)
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2722
Registered: Dec-03
Larry,

You wrote

I decided to also re-read his link to a Stereophile article, with rather chilling impressions on me.

I am saying don't get chilled. Direct that "sterophile" guy to old dogs, and he will stop trying to make people feel bad, for money.

If he is any good, he will see we do it much better, and for free.

BTW your system is now good enough for you to have opinions on other stuff. Your ears and taste in music always were. Take a look at Jan's links. Trust your judgement.

Ben,

Some people do worry about the 100,000 + in iraq. It was not "mother nature" who did that; it was people.

There was this nice guy, name of "Kelly", who knew some things in UK, and who said "wait a minute; they don't have WMD". He was hung out to dry because he was right, and did himself in. That scares me more than Mother Nature. Given time, we can understand how she works. We can't do that with people who know better than we do what we should believe.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2723
Registered: Dec-03
Right on, Larry. My last post was written before I'd read yours.
 

Silver Member
Username: Black_math

Post Number: 201
Registered: Dec-03
Larry, I don't disagree with you and John, I am sure there are lots of people who do care. My point is that the media has chosen the easy issue to rally behind. You can go to lots of websites (look at amazon) and find a link to make donations for tsunami relief. The media will tell you how to help. It all seems fake to me. I just wish that the same effort would be made when women and children are being butchered by African warlords.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2078
Registered: Dec-03
Jan:

"Kegger - If you don't pay much attention to words, classical music should be perfect for you. You still haven't commented on your Mercury purchase"

If you remember a while back I said I picked up another rc-7 center
to use as front speakers. Well before I make my comments on the mercury disk
I'd like to have 3 matching front speakers including the center.
I've been trying to find another rc-7 for a good price but have not.
I've recently found the 2 bass drivers from the rc-7s on ebay and just
ordered the horn and tweeter assembly from klipsch to build my own
rc-7 by using the cabinet demensions from the ones I have and build the
xover using the values from the ones I have.

Should be a pretty good replica using the same drivers but building my own
version of cabinet and xover then I will test the disk some more and
give my impressions.

Sorry for taking so long but I want to do all I can to give an honest and
fair compairison.
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

"Take a look at Jan's links"

EXCUSE ME!!! My links are my own business, though I admit as I've made it through the holiday food, they've become harder for me to even take a look at.


 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

kegger - I would say I await your review with baited breath, but, that seems just too much an open invitation to some of the more childish minds that are on this thread.


 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 378
Registered: Oct-04
Ben James: You just found the core phrase: "easy issue." Yep, dat's dah media. And all of these donation sites you're reading - well, everybody's crambling to get on the wagon - it's 'SEXY" doncha know! It's NOW!
Actually - and seriously - the big and small charities are taking advantage of this disaster. They usually beg for funds - now, more money than they can handle is flowing in. I'm afraid I might consider doing the same thing, were I in charge of a charity. But I suggest that your word "fake" is a bit strong. They are taking advantage, sure, but most of those charities are honest, and only doing what they can to tap the public's feelings. As I say - I'd probably do the same thing.
John A. is correct - disaster by Nature is more of a draw than is disaster by the hand of Man. Usually. But not always. Murder, mass or otherwise, is always a draw. Always will be.
The world is not fair. Anybody who thinks it should be needs to spend some time with cops, ambulance medics, Green Berets, or "good" reporters. Fair, it ain't, my friend.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2079
Registered: Dec-03
"kegger - I would say I await your review with baited breath, but, that
seems just too much an open invitation to some of the more childish
minds that are on this thread."

Agreed I'm sure this childish person right here could come up with something.
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 738
Registered: Dec-03
Well said Larry. Thank you.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 379
Registered: Oct-04
KEGGER: Oh, My God! STOP! DO N O T wait around with "baited" breath! No! If you do, some strange animal - a racoon, bear or lion, will come along and eat you up!
Nooooooo - may I suggest that you wait with "BATED" breath. As in "full of tension or apprehension."
Whew! Hope I caught you in time, my friend! If not - GET THE BAIT OFF YER BREATH - NOW!
(whew and grin)
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 380
Registered: Oct-04
(tee-hee-tee-hee) Sorry - just got a glimpse of Jan's links. Oooohhhhhh!!! Gross!
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2724
Registered: Dec-03
This is a manic thread. I have got back to thinking I agree with everybody. Last week, it was nobody. I am glad I am not lead pedant any more. I was ready with "baited" but Larry got there first, and did it better. Except it was Jan; Kegger was just quoting him, Larry.

Ben, I agree. Larry writes " Murder, mass or otherwise, is always a draw" . Excepting Riwanda, 1990s, that is. There were not so many western tourists there.

Kegger, I have heard some Mercury stereo CDs and they are amazing, and will make anyone think again about claims that much has happened in sound recording since the early 1960s. Their "1812 overture" is completely over the top, but fantastic sound. You will need your flak jacket. What the three-channel SACDs are like I can't imagine.

What's this about links? Cuff links? Golf links?

Larry, as I wrote before, above, you can get the pdf version of the manual. Any AV receiver is a complicated piece of kit. Mine (used) came with no manual at all. Once I had worked out to trust the S-video, it became a sort of control centre for the whole system. Take it a step at a time. First, video 1 for DVD/TV, and so on. Do not forget "Ext 5.1/7.1" though, it is the best for everything, for sound. It misses out the surround processor board completely, does not even say "hi" in passing. Please do not ask about cables....!
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 381
Registered: Oct-04
John A. - G-day, sir. First, I realize that it was Jan, not Kegger, who initially penned "baited," but in my oft-misunderstoood attempt at humor, I thought I'd just issue a spoofy "warning" to Kegger - knowing that Jan would read it and cringe in horror that he had accidentally sent out a "wrong" word. Hmmm. . .
My humor so often misses the mark.

Links? See Jan's Jan. 05 6:14 posting.

Yes, I use the 5.1 connections from CD player to receiver - except for playing DVD-TV discs, of course. But I'm not sure if the 5.1 surround is any different than the surround that's decoded on a DVD movie, for example?

And so there may be an opening for "alpha pedant" on this thread, after all? (grin)

As I've said many times - the closer to home, the more relevant the news. Like it or not, most Americans have pretty much written off Africa as "who cares?" Remember that in the Presidential debates, both candidates waffled on intervention in Africa.
I dare say that, were there not so many influential Jewish people here in the States, most Americans would long ago have written off the Middle East, as well. In terms of person-on-person violence, that is. We are, of course, VITALLY interested in that Mid-East oil! Which is (shhhh, don't tell anybody) one of the main reasons we invaded Iraq in the first place.

Now - about those cables. . . (grin)
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2726
Registered: Dec-03
"But I'm not sure if the 5.1 surround is any different than the surround that's decoded on a DVD movie, for example?"

Try it an see. The digital stream is always decoded somewhere, either in the player or the receiver. On my system, the player always does the better job. Except with DTS format, where it does none at all.

BTW I wrote on Dec 30 "I am waiting for my first scam e-mail about disaster relief. I have a good idea where it will originate."

I received my first chain e-mail today, exorting me to pay to a "Tsunami disaster E-fund", then to pass the e-mail to ten contacts, which would also bring me luck. I was one of about 250 recipients.

The "free web hosting" web service, where the "Paypal" payment site is located, is in Utah. That does not mean the sender is there, of course. The hidden Keywords for search engines suggest to me a UK origin (TV personalities etc), but it is difficult to be sure, and these could be put in as region-specific content. Wherever he is, and whoever he is, may he die, and rot in hell.

Apologies for more "high horse" stuff. But, Larry "As I've said many times - the closer to home, the more relevant the news". We all have one home. We should look after it. There is nowhere else to go.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 382
Registered: Oct-04
John A. - really upset to hear about the relief scam. Our local paper has been warning us about just such things - though I've yet to get anything on my machine, or through the mail. Yep, for every honest person, there seems to be another bent on some sort of fraud or criminal intent. Nature of the "beast" in too many.

Re your last paragraph: I think we have no disagreement, John, so long as we speak on two levels: you as a philosopher, me as a journalist. You refer to a one-world, one-family concept often in your posts. When I pen "closer to home," I'm using a journalist's reference point - home, my house, my block, my close family. In Journalism 101 - basic course - the phrase "closer to home, etc." is used - meaning simply that the average viewer/reader can relate much better to something down the block than to a remote African village.
Even with the advent of TV, which brings your "one-world, one-fmily" into our houses, the maxim holds true.
You are so right - we should look after our home, in whichever relationship you choose to frame it. But Mer disagrees with you firmly - there are many other places to go - in the spirit world. If she were feeling better, she might well come on this forum and talk about parallel universes, and reincarnation, etc. So - we might, indeed, have many other places to "go."

And about those cables. . . (grin)
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 383
Registered: Oct-04
John A. - sorry - Mer (whose face is quite swollen and sore after oral surgery Monday) - wants me to add:
"Remember that the human race long ago evolved into a long string of tribes. One tribe against the other - for food, land, women, etc. Thus, after thousands of years, the "tribal" instinct is implanted firmly in our brains.
It is thus quite normal for humans to shun or attack other "tribes." That is what sparks war. That is what knits families, communities, or, indeed, street gangs.
It would be nice, indeed, to have the human race re-develop into your "one-family" concept, but breeding out that tribal instinct would not come easily - or quickly."

Anyway - you can argue that down to fine points with Mer - I stay out of it! (grin)
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2727
Registered: Dec-03
Thanks, Larry, and thanks to Meri.

Your view on journalism and "human interest" is amply illustrated every day.

I agree with Mer about the tribal instinct. I can e-mail a great pdf of an article making that point, and linking it to languages. That was something I found "chilling", since we need a common language to communicate with each other, in the first place. Personally I have had endless problems by trying to distance myself from various tribes. Their motto is usually "If you are not with us, you are against us". If guys like me say "Let us try to grow up; their point of view is one we would hold if we were in their place" then people just get angry, in my experience. I think we've seen some of that on this thread. This is not a cheap remark. Growing up is indeed learning there are other people in the world, just like ourselves. Watch any child, and that is exactly what they do.

I still have this feeling we are all in serious trouble if we cannot make that final step and see that all humans are much the same, which is the simple truth of the matter. There are no new worlds left to conquer and colonise. I am not sure how well endowed that "other world" is with food, fresh water, fuel, and clean air. We have no choice but to try to understand each other, and look after the one territory we've got.

Sorry for another sermon.

Now the important question: As Jan keeps pointing out, many people think sub-woofer cable is critical. As the old saying goes, why spoil the ship for a ha'porth of shielded and grounded O2-free copper, with gold RCA plugs? (No, no, don't take the baited/bated hook...!)
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 384
Registered: Oct-04
John A. - Nah, I don' mind you preaching the sermon of one-world, one-people - as long as you understand that your viewpoint is in the minority! You even admit to that on your postings. Heck, if husband and wife can't even get along these days, how in the world can we expect two "tribes" or states or countries to reach constant accord?
Modern life dictates a whole list of "do's" and "don't's" - which are broken every minute of every day somewhere.
Fundamentalist Christians preach that the only way this world will be united is when Christ returns. But then they contradict themselves by saying that the world will be divided then between the "saved" and the "damned." So much for one-world, one-family.
And where do the "damned" go? Hmmm? Well - maybe to yet another world where they, too, can become "one world, one-family?" Or not? Oh, yes, and FYI - those in the spirit world neither eat nor drink - and probably don't "breathe" either!
Several years ago I had a chance to interview a Green Beret chap who had been not only in Vietnam, but in several other "hot spots" around the world. He could have killed me with one hand behind him - but he talked of the frustrations in trying to make people "understand" that he was not there to kill (at least in the instances he recounted) but to settle a bad situation.
He was there, at the edge, between tribes - and in harm's way from both. He said he failed to settle the "situation," and deadly force was brought in to "neutralize" the foes.
I have long-time undercover cop-friend in Chicago who tells of being on that same "edge" every working night. Does he believe in the "one-world, one-family" concept? Not for a minute. OUt there, he says, it's every person, every gang, every cop, for himself or herself.
Oh, both the Green Beret and the cop would LOVE to be able to do their jobs in peace and harmony. But Buddha, Jesus, Ghandi, Billy Graham, Pope (fill in the names) etc. have not been able to do that in thousands of years.
I am personally glad that you have the world view that you have, John. It must either make you a very at-peace man, or an extremely frustrated one. I wonder which.
And how about THAT for a sermon, eh? (grin)

Sub-woofer cables should only come - used - from submarine power plants, and be 3-inches in diameter. Minimum. (double grin)
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

I can't speak for John, but, I would assume most who hold the one world/one people viewpoint would prefer to consider themself neither at peace nor frustrated. My guess would be they consider themelf to be hopeful.

And how about that for a long winded answer, eh?


 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 739
Registered: Dec-03
I like to think I am a very tolerant man. I can see both sides of many debates including tribes, families, politics, religion, Green Berets etc. But when it comes to subwoofer cables, I have to draw the line. How can you be so cavalier on the matter? Anyone in the know will tell you the proper choice will make or break the system. Jan must be reading, and in total shock over the casual attitude towards this most critical component.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2080
Registered: Dec-03
Jan are you sick?

There must be something wrong! lol
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

I've kind of had my fill of controversy for a while, thank you. If that's what Larry wants and he likes the sound, I am hopeful it brings him peace and not frustration. I shall not even suggest a twited pair would be better for fear of a misunderstanding about "twisted pair". If you'll excuse me now, I have to go stick a hot soldering iron in my eye.


 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 385
Registered: Oct-04
Sigh - youze guyz jest don' get it, doo yew? Yew can't create a "twited pair" (Jan's wording) out submarine cables! Sigh. Gotta take two and wrap them together with duct tape - then take a BIG scraper and pare down the ends until they can be twisted together with 16AWG copper wire. THEN you solder thosef into an RCA plug - presto - subwoofer sound! Sorta like what Jan's brass cones do for equipment - the sub-cable-to-RCA siphons off the bad tones, and lets the golden tones through!
I have, myself, plan to do such an installation, and I can tell you - I thought the NAD made a difference - but the submarine subwoofer cable - ah! that will surely solve ALL of my bass problems! (submarine base, that is)But OOPS, I forgot - I don't have a sub(marine)woofer!

Sigh. NAD crapped out today. Yep - tried to use the remote control, and it would only take one step at a time. Had to push Amp or DVD every time I wanted to make a change. Not good.
Called NAD. They said "batteries." Drove to Walgreen's. Got new batteries. Shoved them. Yep.
Rather - NOPE. Didn't help.
Took remote control down to the local House of Horrors- er - HiFi. The mope there allowed as how they didn't have a clue. BUT - he took the remote - get this, now - TWISTED IT A COUPLE OF TIMES, THEN BANGED IT THREE TIMES ON THE COUNTER! Well, I nearly fainted. Then, we went into a room where they had NAD amps - and the remote worked perfectly there! Uh-oh - the guy said it must be my receiver. And I nearly fainted again.
Welllll - I came home, and told Mer what had happened. She nearly fainted. (do I see a pattern developing here?)
Anyway - pointed the malfunctioning remote at the NAD - AND IT WORKED PERFECTLY!
Sigh - MUST be a loose connection or something in the remote?
Called NAD again - and the guy made me slowly describe the repair-mope's "fix." Said he'd use that for a new repair manual! Hmmm. . .
He suggested that I buy a second remote of some sort, program it, and save it in case this remote finally dies a natural death. OK.
Sigh. I'm quite sick of people who call themselves "service" folk - when they really don't know what they're doing!
But heck, guyz, it got fixed - so why am I birchin', eh? (grin)
Ya gotta read Don RX-1's joke on "Old Dogs and Their Jokes" thread!

More anon. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 386
Registered: Oct-04
To all: OK, guyz, listen up. For all who are taking sides in the Jan V. vs. Larry-John A. dust-up over "baited breath vs. bated breath."

- - - - - -

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-bai1.htm
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

And you thought I was just bating you!


 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

No. Make that baiting.


 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Whatever, I only wate for the controversy to abate.


 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Now acn we get back to Larry's cable for his non existent sub? When you do get around to this procedure, please remember to use oxygen free welding rods. They sound much better than the stuff you buy off the shelf at Submarine Shack.


 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest


"acn"
D'OHHH!!!
Here comes another spelling lesson.


 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 387
Registered: Oct-04
"All Gone."
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2081
Registered: Dec-03
you guy's are getting pretty sick baiting each other.
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 740
Registered: Dec-03
Larry,

You could plan a day trip, and drive up to SEA WORLD for that cable. I would call first, and make sure they have it in stock.
 

Silver Member
Username: Sem

New York USA

Post Number: 401
Registered: Mar-04
Ok, ok, I think you guys have reached your limit here. Don't make me call in the Game Warden.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 388
Registered: Oct-04
Sigh - well, guyz, the NAD remote just crapped out again. NAD on the phone hadn't a clue - the local HiFi shop hadn't a clue - other than to smack it. Sigh.
guess I'll have to bite the bullet and order a new one? Not a happy camper at the moment. . .
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Might I suggest a universal remote from a generic company might do everything you need and be much less expensive?


 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 389
Registered: Oct-04
Jan V. - Yep.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 390
Registered: Oct-04
To all: necessity being the mother of invention, I decided to try blowing up the remote. No, not really - but I did find a slot at the end of the battery compartment that led into the main circuit board. I thought that, by using my "canned air" and blasting into the hole that I might dislodge any foreign substance - if such were present.
Blast away I did - then replaced the batteries and meandered into the living room. Aimed the remote and - Eureka! The darned thing worked splendidly. Put it through all paces, and it never skipped a beat.
Now I won't promise that the thing will remain "active" - it might crash again overnight. But it's working at the moment. Sigh.
Merri says I should never be left alone in a room where electronics are involved. They do tend to crash and burn a lot. Karma? Well. . . .
 

Bronze Member
Username: Asimo

Post Number: 45
Registered: Apr-04
Larry R
I totally agree with Mer "tribe theory". There are tribes everywhere, different countries, different religions, football, basketball groups, political parties and even tube amplifiers admirers or stereo preservers. The internal code is to fight the other tribe until he surrenders or disappears.
We are too much exposed to tribal thinking and behaving in our middle east region.

I had NAD remote for 10 years with no problems. I changed to another same remote now operates all my new and old NAD's. I think NAD gives a lot of musical amplifier for the money.

To all

I found an interesting site about audio myths, superstitions and voodoos. That should be must reading for every audiophile.
http://www.theaudiocritic.com/downloads/article_1.pdf

 

Silver Member
Username: Ojophile

ON

Post Number: 211
Registered: Jun-04
Asimo,

Thanks for the link. I found a similar web article a while back but lost the link --- glad you found it.

Have a good day.

 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2730
Registered: Dec-03
I think Rick is being too conciliatory, and willing to compromise, on sub cables. Typical of that sort of guy.

If find the ideal test disc for the sub cable is The Return of the King, Extended Edition, the bit where Frodo and Sam reach Mt Doom. 3" dia. submarine cable is taking chances; try 6", or stick with the tried and tested solid copper rods immersed in liquid nitrogen. With the Extended Edition, and the sub safely housed, as usual, in a concrete bunker, you can switch to DTS, and there a suitable optical cable can be hacked from any old internet backbone fibre optic you have lying round from the last time they dug up the link between, say Palo Alto and Los Alamos. You can lay that through the average domestic main drain, it is only 1 ft thick. You may not hear the difference at once; it takes practise. But what price for peace of mind?
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 391
Registered: Oct-04
Asimo: Agree with all the myths except for the CD coatings - Mer and I - as well as Jan V. - heard MAJOR differences in both sound and video when we used Vivid, then later the Zaino Z-14 "glop."
Sooo - I stick by my guns on the glop-issue. Hope some more of you try it. I sent Ghia a "free home trial kit" - but she hasn't got it yet. Await her review.

John A. - SIGH - I am obviously too short-sighted in my adherence to a cable-standard for the subwoofer which I shall someday get.
Problem with the advanced-design sub cable is that there is NO way to snake it between amp and speaker without stripping out all the furniture in my living room. There is a creature called "dear wife" with whom I must share the space - and she allowed as how the 3" cable was bad enough - but anything larger would set her off into a purple funk. Uh-oh!
I (blush) must admit that I thought of raiding one of the utility company's "bone yards" for some cast-off fibre optics cable. They've got some dandy bundles, about a foot in diameter, with something like 1,000 strands in them.
However, given the problem of splicing - and the need for on-line signal amplifiers - I have determined that copper is my friend.
We have, meanwhile, determined to blast out part of our patio, then open a channel under the living room floor in sort of a folded horn pattern, allowing for subwoofer frequencies down to approx. 4 HZ - and as an added bonus, that's a frequency monitored by nuclear submarines all over the world - so we might be able to create a HiFi network even as we listen to arcane tunes above. Hmmm. . . Thanks, John - as always, you open my mind to new troubles - uh - "ideas." GRIN
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 392
Registered: Oct-04
John A. - can we agree on gold connectors at each end? Thanx - Lar.
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 741
Registered: Dec-03
Well done John! "You may not hear the difference at once" - of course not, one must allow for proper burn-in. Write that down Larry, it will be on quiz. LOL!
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 393
Registered: Oct-04
Rick: Of course! Thanks. . .

P R O P E R


B U R N - I N


Got it, Rick!
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 394
Registered: Oct-04
John A. - sitting here with baited breadth (whew, that old cheese smells bad!) awaiting your answer.
And yes, the bait goes all across the breadth of my body. A lotta bait!
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 395
Registered: Oct-04
AAAEEEIEEEEEE!!! Didn't know alligators liked ole cheese! OUTA HERE!

Help . . .help . . .


>> >> >> >> >> >> >> Glub..................
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 742
Registered: Dec-03
And speaking of old alligators and crocs, MyRantz, it's time to come out and play. Come on old buddy, it's time for my New Years hug........
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 396
Registered: Oct-04
(Whew!) Barely escaped. And yeah, Rantz, would sure love to get you into Rick's submarine cable or John A.'s fibre optics subwoofer cable discussion! You've probably got a better idea? Hope so - all these cables would wreck my place!
(grin)

Meanwhile - for the New Year and the diet-conscious - some sage advice!
- - - - -
For those of you who watch what you eat... Here's the final word on nutrition and health. It's a relief to know the truth after all those conflicting medical studies:

1. The Japanese eat very little fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than the Americans.

2. The Mexicans eat a lot of fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than the Americans.

3. The Japanese drink very little red wine and suffer fewer heart attack than the Americans.

4. The Italians drink excessive amounts of red wine and suffer fewer hear attacks than the Americans.

5. The Germans drink a lot of beers and eat lots of sausages and fats and suffer fewer heart attacks than the Americans.

CONCLUSION:

Eat and drink what you like.
Speaking English is apparently what kills you.

- - - - - -
Bon appetite!
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 743
Registered: Dec-03
I'll drink to that! A round for all on me........

Cheers!
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2731
Registered: Dec-03
Santé.

Great to see the Old Dogs in good temper again. I agree with Rick. Please come back, My Rantz and Ghia. I shall be posting infrequently in next few weeks, only because of competing demands on time.

Larry, John A. - can we agree on gold connectors at each end?. Yes, gold is best. It you can just about lift one plug, it is probably about the right gauge. Silver and copper can do at a pinch, but it is, in any case, safest to make sure any connector is superconducting, a simple precaution that is easily taken if one has a ready suppy of liquid helium.

Also, a simple alternative to TOSlink is a GHz transponder on one's personal geostationary satellite, but the time delay can adversely affect phasing, and the WAF of a roof-mounted or garden-positioned satellite dish may also be something to consider. There are always pros and cons, even for the most determined audiophile.
 

Silver Member
Username: Ojophile

ON

Post Number: 212
Registered: Jun-04
Larry,

It's Bon appétit (silent 't').

Speaking English is apparently what kills you.

So does speaking fractured French (hee-hee! or should that be le heé heé, mon ami)


 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

"gold is best."

John, I know you was just joshing with Larry, but, you really should tell him copper and silver are far ahead of gold in conductivity.


 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 397
Registered: Oct-04
John A. - actually, a rotating rhombic antenna cohabited with a Wilthen-Sphoncter toroidal coil power supply and avanti double-grade silver-infused copper end-caps might be just the thing. Forget the sat dishes - just lay out about six miles of good-quality copper, say 4awg solid, and then meld it into the rhombus configuration.
With that, plus bi-amped cohabited ply-theural insulation, well, you've got yourself a party!
But Jan is correct - gold for anti-oxidation, copper for conductivity. No problem with signal loss, though, as we're only using it for cable-end connections.

Don - wahyl Ah'll be durned! A sure-fire honest-to-goodness Frenchie! Whooppeeeee! Ah'll betcha ken also say "la plume de ma tante. . ." without even curling an eyebrow, eh?
Yes, my friend, I DO know the, uh, "proper" way to schpel dem wurds - jest got caught up in Henglish and fergott my syntax. Or any other tax, for that matter.
Don - to be serious - I used to speak/write French rather fluently - but it was long ago, when I made frequent trips up north of Quebec City to visit the De la Roche clan. Down here, anybody speaking French is looked at askance, as though they were, uh, "weird."
One of the sculpture teachers who works with Mer at the Bonita Art League turns out to be a distant cousin - Frank (Francois) De la Roche, from Canada in the summer, Naples (FL) in the winter. He's a real card - and a good sculptor to boot!
Bon soir, mon ami - and a Southern hug to your family from La Mer et moi. Oh, yes - and bone apuhtee to U, 2! (grin)
 

Silver Member
Username: Ojophile

ON

Post Number: 213
Registered: Jun-04
Larry,

I knew you could take a ribbing!

Since you're in good spirits with your newly acquired NAD, I thought I'd poke the funny bone a little. Of course, I knew you could spell bon appetit correctly.

Enjoy your Florida weather. Another winter storm is coming this weekend. Darn!

 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

http://www.eminent-tech.com/musicpost.html

And an amp that uses the pure copper post. The reason it sounds good?

http://www.caryaudio.com/reviews/junejuly94.shtml


 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Just for those who care.

The Las Vegas CES (Consumer Electronic Show) started this afternoon. This is the largest consumer electronics show in the world and sets much of what we will be looking at in the shops for the next year.

https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/116852.html

 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2082
Registered: Dec-03
"sets much of what we will be looking at in the shops for the next year"

agreed jan!

the guy at the hifi shop here that carries tube stuff is there and looking for
cost afective new pieces to carry.

one if his main goals was low to mid priced tube preamps!
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 399
Registered: Oct-04
Kegger, my friend: So - who buys these tube amps, and are they, like you, on a quest for a more enjoyable sound - or a trip into nostalgia? I, too, sometimes miss the glow of good ole tubes, but I'm not "retro" enough to set up another pair of amps using them! Not anything against tubes, mind you, sir - but I just wonder what tube-advocates really yearn for.
I know I'm asking for a slam-back, but be gentle, OK? (grin)
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2083
Registered: Dec-03
larry here is a little excerpt from someone hearing tubes
for the first time on there gear after years of quality mac solid state!

"JM, the JoLida is everything the SS Macs aspire to be...warm, neutural, solid, detailed, and just plain amazing (it's just more so with the tube amp)! I didn't think I'd really hear much difference between the tube vs. SS debate, but since auditioning this lil' tube amp, music really is more natural. Not to put down the MC250 or the MC2100 (and my ol' MC7200), but the JoLida does have a more well-rounded characteristic about it...it's hard for me to describe in words, but it's somewhat more fuller sounding than the SS Macs (which still sound damn great to my ears). The SS Macs impart a tube-like quality unlike any other SS amps I've ever heard, but you really can't beat a tube amplifier"

That's pretty much how I feal. Recently I've tried some of my solid state
gear that I use to find to be very good to excelent and now I can't see
how I ever thought that!

For me tubes are how music should sound and solid state is how it shouldn't sound!

I now find solid state hard to listen too and somewhat thin and grainy.
Tubes to me are smooth and full bodied.
Might want to aquaint it to a $12 cheap bottle of wine comaparred to a beautifully
aged and full bodied (insert here what you like).

I know we keep going back to tubes and preaching them (some of us) but I
just have to be honest with what I hear!
 

Silver Member
Username: Sem

New York USA

Post Number: 403
Registered: Mar-04
RE: The Consumer Electronics Show:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050105/dcw077_1.html

 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 400
Registered: Oct-04
Kegger: Yeah, I can see where you're coming from in this. I guess the only tube equipment I find down here in Swampville is the very expensive stuff, $2,000 and up. Outta my league, of course, so I never even think to go listen to any of it. (they probably see me coming and write me off as a "no-sale!")
You seem to equate tubes to SS the way I equate most CDs to good ole LPs - regardless of what anybody says, I always thought the LP sound to be warmer and more akin to what instruments and voices really sound like.
I'm sure that somebody about now will step in to rebut my LP comments - but that's the way I felt after years of comparison.
Thin and grainy - yep - that pretty much described the Polk speakers with the Onkyo amplifier! and so many people told me "yer nutz, they ain' no diff-runce between amps!"
Well - they are wrong. I heard it big-time. Mer hears it big-time. So I'm thinking that there must be another set of comparisons yet for me to experience? Well, I doubt that I shall be able to, but I read with interest your experiments and acquisitions.
Thanks for the response.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2084
Registered: Dec-03
no problem larry!

Now remember , we talked about this before and I believe you tried
with the onkyo and the amp you got from a friend.
But someday if you come accross
a good deal on a tube amp you could power your front speakers with it
coming out the nad preouts.

And lar i'm sure jan and john agree to your sentiments of lp's verse cd.
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 401
Registered: Oct-04
Kegger: Yeah, I remember that amp! Only had one channel working - so I had a rather dumb setup to test! I'll have to ask what the guy ever did with that thing? Haven't a clue what it would cost to repair - if it is even repairable!
Haven't found any other "bargain" tube amps or preamps around here. But the NAD sounds so warm and natural that I can see why you like the tube sound.
Sigh - too tired to write more! G-nite, Kegman.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2085
Registered: Dec-03
G-nite, Larry R
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2732
Registered: Dec-03
Thanks for the tip on the rotating rhombic antenna, Larry, I had been using the usual configuration, without even thinking about it.

Yes, Jan, I recall cuprium has better electrical conductivity that aurium, but also that argentium is a whisker ahead. I use the Latin names because this is an international forum, as we see from Don's and Larry's effortless use of franglais. But I probably got them wrong.

Before getting off the state of the World, let me say yesterday Mrs A. borrowed Beyond Borders. I was disturbed by that movie, wondering how anyone can try to make entertainment around such themes as starvation and genocide. Apparently the delectable Miss Jolie is sincere in her convictions, and the film carries a solemn dedication, at the end. Personally, I am not sure that helps, and it has to be said there is not much plot, it is all more of a pretext for a message about aid. It is like Larry's arguments re journalism, I suppose, if Ethiopia, Cambodia and Chechnya are not "close to home" then maybe this movie could help. There has to be a price for that, though, which is that anything at the movies is fiction, and can be safely disguarded. Even now there will probably be, somewhere in Hollywood, someone considering the cost of special effects for a movie entitled "Tsunami". Wonder what will be thought to be an acceptable release date.

Must go. Writing here is a delaying tactic. Thanks for the diversion, everyone.
 

Silver Member
Username: Ojophile

ON

Post Number: 214
Registered: Jun-04
John, thanks for the link to that movie. I have a very short memory when it comes to films. My wife often has to retell the story and mention the roster of actors to jolt my memory. A movie about the SE Asia tsunami? You're right, I wouldn't be surprised. James Cameron directing?

I'll bet my Canadian dollar that "The Deadly Triangle (The Amber Frey Story)" will beat the "tsunami" blockbuster to the till hands downs. She's been on nearly every talk show recounting her ill-fated, pseudo-tragic tale ad nauseam. Isn't there anything worth watching on TV these days?

end of rant

 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 403
Registered: Oct-04
Don, John A., et al. Well, now that's interesting. There should have been a post from me right before Don's! Guess I must not have pressed something.

Anyway - don't get me started on the paucity of good watching on TV - and movie violence shall continue evermore - with, yes, a "Tsunami - the sequel" probably already in the scripting stage. Sigh.

Switching gears: Y'all remember my constant griping about speaker and amp sounds? Well, I accidentally got on an old eCoustics thread this ayem - and found an engineer who bought a new Onkyo 701 - and immediately found a lack of bass! Well, unlike me, he had knowledge and instruments, and apparently a good system with which to compare the Onkyo.
Here's a bit of his shocked response.
- - - - -
The manual also states on page 78 that tone control is at 50 Hz adjustable by +/- 10 dB. I plotted the difference between the Onkyo and the JVC in Figure 3 (http://home.houston.rr.com/dillweb/onkyo/figure3.gif ). I noticed on the plot that at 50 Hz the difference was about 10 dB. I adjusted the bass setting on the Onkyo receiver to +10 dB. This audio adjustment is available in the "Stereo" mode, but it is not available in the "Direct" or "Pure Audio" modes. The result is also shown on Figure 3. Increasing the bass setting to +10dB gave me a flat response! This means that the amplifier is perfectly capable of driving my large speakers. This is the way the receiver should perform. There is no reason why I should have to adjust the bass setting because the signal coming out of the amplifier is wrong. This also means that the "Direct" and "Pure Audio" modes will not have the correct amount of bass, as they do not allow audio adjustments.
- - - - -
Well, he took the Onkyo back, got another, and had the same problem. Contacted Onkyo, and they gave him no help.
This is what I'd been complaining about forever, and I'm glad that at least somebody else found the same problem! And yes, I noticed that when I by-passed the tone controls, the Onkyo had almost no bass!
Now, of course, I have the NAD - which sounds terrific. Sigh - but I have to sneak over to the doc's house and boost the Onkyo bass - if he'll even notice! (grin)
Might pass the word to anybody thinking about Onkyo amps - test the bass response if you can, you might be surprised what's NOT there!
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Might want to tell your doctor/benefactor friend who now owns one.



 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 405
Registered: Oct-04
Jan V. - yep - except in his case the problem will soon be moot - he's getting a 12-inch sub-woofer, and we'll set the cross-over at 150. Which is probably what Onkyo had in mind in the first place - that people would use the 701 as a full-theatre unit, with subwoofer? Don't know. But for those without subs - not good.
Thanks for the urging, anyway, Jan.
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Yes, sir, I long ago subscribed to Urges-R-Us.


 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Just for those who care.

Elvis Presley was born on this date in 1935.

President Lyndon Johnson declared a "war on poverty".


 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Sorry, the fingers slipped. The date for Mr. Johnson was 1964.

 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

This doesn't qualify for O.D.'s and their jokes, so here it is. From today's Dallas Morning News Religion pages:

Last month, the edoitor of the Jewish weekly newspaper The Forward defended the inclusion of Madonna on the paper's annual list of most influential Jews in America. But isn't she Catholic?

"She's a practitioner of the Kabbalah, so she's practicing Judaism, for Christ's sake!" the editor told the New York Daily News.




 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 744
Registered: Dec-03
LOL!
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 406
Registered: Oct-04
Jan V. - went to the docs. The martin Logans are so bass-heavy that he didn't notice - thanked me, but said he didn't care - it sounded fine. We boosted the Onkyo bass 4 db anyway. Sigh.

Ok - a liddle help here, guyz. I post to seveal threads. How do I stop e-mail notification of answers to my postings on just one thread? I can't figger it out. It seems to be either all or none? Somedays I'm dense.

Sigh. . .
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2734
Registered: Dec-03
Don,

I have a very short memory when it comes to films. My wife often has to retell the story and mention the roster of actors to jolt my memory.

That is exactly how it is with us. Except I don't even know the names of the actors and actresses. My family, in contrast, know their names, what they have been in, and who is, and was, doing what with whom, and why. I am totally baffled. I have to ask Mrs A. whether I have seen films or not. This week's recommendation; "The Day the Earth Stood Still" (1951). Thanks to J.V on another thread for a cryptic reference to that. Excellent.
 

Silver Member
Username: Ojophile

ON

Post Number: 215
Registered: Jun-04
Larry,

I don't think you can selectively stop e-mail notifications (replies) from threads that you participate in. Yeah, it's all or nothing. I turned off (deselected) that option on my profile as it filled up my Inbox quickly.

https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/board-profile.pl

 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 407
Registered: Oct-04
Don - thanks - that's what I thought. I've turned off the e-mail notification, as I often had a full screen to deal with! Maybe later on I'll return to the e-mail setup.
Too warm here! Highs in the low 80s - and it's January, yet! But I'll NOT trade the heat for your ice and snow, Don! This is the time of year we live for - no air conditioning, no heat.
But we well remember July and August, when you have to take a machete and cut your way through the heavy, damp air! That's when we gulp and pay the $150-a-month air conditioning bills! (and stay inside!)
Hope all is well with you. BTW - did you ever get all those jazz CDs you were talking about?

More anon. . .
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Just for those who care.

Today in 1935, Elvis was one day old.

They aren't playing Elvis movies all day today.


 

Bronze Member
Username: Asimo

Post Number: 46
Registered: Apr-04
Hi to all
Some underground Hi-Fi trader offered me a vintage McIntosh. It is a McIntosh 1700 hybrid receiver from the 60th. The trader said it was at an old audiophile home for about 40 years until he passed away. I have no idea how it sounds but after all compliments the McIntosh received in this forum I am enthusiast to find out.
The trader wants about $500 but I think there is a room for negotiation.
I did some survey in the net and found the MAC 1700 to be not exactly as MAC 6200 Ghia's favorite but still it is a MAC.
Does anybody knows something about this MAC?
 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 410
Registered: Oct-04
OK, ev-body - here's a challenge. When is "flat" really "flat?"
When you tell me to run my receiver with NO tone control coloration - you want me to get "flat" response.
But I don't. For one thing, the receiver is rated down a db or two at 50 Hz. My Polk speakers are rated down 3 db. at 50 Hz. There are dips and raised up and down the spectrum.
So unless I use the tone controls, I do NOT get "flat" response!
With my new NAD, and my Polk RTi6 speakers, I find that the most natural-sounding music comes if I boost the bass 2 db - and attenuate the treble 4 db - in my listening room.
Is that flat? Well, I think it must come pretty close! But without an SPL meter, I really have no solid reference point.
I'm thinking of getting the Stereophile test record, and a meter, just to see/hear for myself what my system is doing.
My eyes were opened with that Onkyo test, and I felt vindicated that my claims of NO flat sound were justified.
OK - do you insist that "flat" sound comes from NO tone controls? And if so, why?
Then again - friend Kegger seems more satisfied with sound that is NOT flat! And many times I would agree with that - kick up the bass on a good jazz CD - knock down the treble on a harsh CD, etc.
Anybody up for the challenge?
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

Asimo - Please forward information on the old audiophile home. In a few more years I may need their help.



The 1700 is an interesting piece of equipment in that it is a hybrid of valve and solid state technology. It's sound is more like Rick's 6100 integrated amp. It also represents a time in the transition between tubes and transistors when most manufacturers had little idea how to properly implement the new technology. McIntosh had the best sounding amplifiers of that time period.
You should find the same identifiable Mac sound that you have seen described on these posts. The questions you are interested in having answers to start with how long has the unit sat without being powered up? As the unit sits without power, the capacitors dry out and the likelyhood you will have to service the unit increases. As is, you should probably replace the AC filter caps out of common sense if that hasn't been done in the past few years. Next ask about the overall condition of the unit mechanically and the age of the tubes. Are there any loose parts, how is the tuner, are there any noises; those would be where I would begin. The years on the tubes may not be important since it may have only been run occasionaly. Ask if all the tubes match in make. Are some tubes original Mac tubes and some are generic replacements? If so, you may want to replace some tubes. If the tuner section is not that important to you, this may not be needed.

Give it a try. Even if you don't care for the sound, you are unlikely to loose money if you should decide to sell it later.



 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

"When you tell me to run my receiver with NO tone control coloration - you want me to get "flat" response."

No, I EXPECT you to get flat response, from the receiver. Not flat response in the room. If you actually acheived flat power response in you room, at your listening position, over the entire audible frequency bandwidth, I would be more than amazed.

Larry, you're coming close to me telling Mer to take the books away from you and not let you have the remote control. What you're reading has little bearing on what you will hear in your room. Obviously a -8dB dip in the overall bass response is something. But if you begin to want all the "dips and raised up and down the spectrum" parts taken care of you will drive yourself insane with this whole thing. The average room has more variation than what you will find in the speaker itself. What is more interesting is an amplifier that is rated as being down a dB or two at 50Hz. Rated or that's what you found in a test? Consider your answer, Larry, whether I tell Mer to let you have the remote hangs in the balance.

Here's the thing about the tone controls; they are often too broad in their action to give a good solution to the problems which systems face in a typical room. Most bass controls start to take effect at 500Hz. If you're trying to solve a problem of a dB or two at 50Hz, that tone control ain't gonna do it. Likewise for treble controls that hinge at a frequency low enough to do more damage to a blip in the frequency response than they will ever actually solve. To treat the actual frequency irregularities that are in a typical room you will need at least a three band parametric EQ with continuously adjustable center frequency position and bell or "Q" of the curve along with gain and cut. To get such a device that you won't hear will take a bit more money than the receiver cost. Actually, make that quite a bit more.

If you find you like the sound with the controls set where you have them, we won't tell the hifi police. You paid for them, go ahead and use them. Just understand what you're trying to solve and how you're trying to solve the problem. Most feel tone controls are taking the shotgun to kill the mouse.

And save your money on the meter and test disc. If you'll read those reports on speaker response in Stereophile you'll see them mention the various programs and calibrations they have used to get anything that comes close to a measurement that can be replicated. You will need to have a calibrated microphone with a much faster meter than Radio Shack sells. And you will have to know and account for the actual room nodes that exist in your space before you can do anything with this equipment. For that you will need more equipment.

After you've found out how many variations there are from flat in your room, you will have to hire the acoustic engineer to redesign your space and then the contractor to build the new room and the acoustician to treat the room you've built. And you won't get to pick where you sit in that room either. And the TV ... bon voyage! Along with most of the furniture.


Bottom line, here, Larry. Save your money, stop worrying about flat and listen the way it sounds OK to you and Mer.


 

Pa Rantz
Unregistered guest
Larry,

As my son My Rantz will not post on J Vigne's thread at this point in time as he promised to MHOB, he has however, asked me to convey the fact that, in this case, he agrees with Mr Vigne's comments. Listen to what pleases your ears and forget about what others think you should be hearing.

Having said that, he wishes to ask whether you are using a dedicated cd player with a digital connection or cd inputs to the NAD, or the Yamaha universal player. In My Rantz's opinion, you might try John A's suggestion to play cd's with your Yamaha DVD player through the analogue connections (as you do with SACD). This bypasses almost all influences on the signal to give a clear, unadulterated sound that should be significently better than the other methods.

My Rantz has a Yamaha multi disc cd player connected to a digital input and plays cd's in the pure direct mode on his Marantz receiver. This sounds very good, although when playing cd's using his Denon DVD-2900 universal player he finds the analogue connection far superior for listening pleasure with no thoughts about needing tone controls or other enhacing devices. Only quality SACD's and DVD-A's surpass this sound.

Also Larry, when you get a decent sub (a necessity My Rantz believes with your Polk bookshelf speakers) you will notice a world of difference as the bass response will be more accurate than what you are having delivered to your ears by the the smaller Polks.

And Larry, now that you can, try a DVD-A or two - see http://www.highfidelityreview.com for recommendations in the genres you like. BTW - Congrats on the NAD.

My Rantz asked me to say hello and thanks to John, Rick, Kegger, 2c and other dogs on his behalf. But, to John A he asks: "Forgiven for what?"

 

Silver Member
Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 411
Registered: Oct-04
Well, I got what I wanted: information. That was, after all, my intent.
OK - in the end, I'll just twiddle until I get the sound I think I should have.
With the NAD, running without tone controls is much more of a possibility than with the Onkyo.
And yes - a subwoofer must be in my future - when I get a few teeth, etc., paid for! (grin)
Meanwhile, the system sounds so much better that it is a joy to listen to.

OK - with the SACD/CD player - I have it hooked up to the 5.1 analog inputs - and play ALL of my CDs and SACDs through that. The only problem, if you could call it that, is that, when there is no SACD present, the Yamaha automatically plays the CD (2-ch) in Pro Logic II! For that to stop, you've gotta change to either digital out or the plain "analog" setting, which takes a few minutes time, and frankly doesn't make that much difference.
As I've said - for music, I've got the surround channels turned down, anyway, so I don't get very much back-sound.

Pa Rantz (double grin) welcome to our forum, and good to hear from you. Please tell son "My" that we miss him, and hope that he returns with his scintillating prose from time to time.
With Ghia gone, also, there is a blank spot in the forum, fer shore!
Bottom line: no test disc, no meter, and not too much knob-turning. Thanks. . .
 

Pa Rantz
Unregistered guest
"Bottom line: no test disc, no meter, and not too much knob-turning. "

My Rantz wanted to respond to that but I talked him out of it. [phew!]

He thanks you for the kind words.

Cheers

Pa Rantz


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