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AXIOMS

 

Bronze Member
Username: Dan_the_man

London, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 27
Registered: Jun-04
Anyone out there with axiom speakers, besides berny (just wondering), i made the plunge. 5 speakers coming on friday.

I can't wait to here what they sound like lol. Well i am a gambling man, i bought my SVS lke this, the anticpation is killing me though.

Well thought i'd share my upgraditis with everyone. Let me know what you think of these speakers, as of friday i have 29 days to send them back, the least you could do is comfort me for one day LOL. Then i can make up my mind....

Speakers are Mt60's, VP100, and QS4's with matching stands.

I currently have E208 cerwin rears, cc250 cerwin centre, and RS-5 infinity front speakers. I imagine i should be in for a shock. Anyways enough rambling, i hope all this forum reading has paid off lol. Talk to you all later, thanks in advance for any response.
 

New member
Username: Thereal_1_

Post Number: 4
Registered: Nov-04
After reading almost every reviews out there on the different audio forums and sites on Axiom products, I finally decided to get the M22ti for my main front. With the 30-day money back guarantee and the many positive feedback, I thought it wouldn't hurt to give them a try.

The rest of mine 7.1 HT setup are Paradigm Titans rear, Cinema 90 rear back, CC-370 center, and PDR-10 sub on a Yamaha RX-V1500 receiver.

I was also considering Paradigm Monitor 5, Studio 20 or 40, Totem Rainmaker, and Definitive Technology PM500.

It only took 2 days for me to get them and I must say that their customer service was excellent. My first impression was that the speakers have nice finishing, very sturdy, and the built quality is excellent. I hook them up side by side with my Titans using A/B speaker mode, and disconnected the rest of my other speakers.

I have been using them for a week now listening to Classical, Jazz, Rock and watching movies. IMHO, I am a bit disappointed with the outcome. Although the sound is very clear and the midrange is good, I didn't find them as "rich" and room-filling as my Titans. The lack of bass is very obvious. They sound better when all the rest of my speakers are on but that is expected.

Perhaps it is still too early to tell as I will give them another week or two to see if some break-in time will help, before making my final decision. If I do return them, I will most likely go with either the Monitor 5 or Studio 20 as the Studio 40 is out of my budget.

These are just my thoughts for as a first-time Axiom owner.
 

Gold Member
Username: Elitefan1

Post Number: 1064
Registered: Dec-03
You will be better off with Paradigm mains if the rest of your system is all Paradigm as you say. The tonal match across the front will just not be there with mis-matched speakers. The Monitor 5 should do you just fine. Get the 5's and you'll have a very nice mid level system. It's just best to have all speakers from the same brand. Interesting report on the Axioms though.
 

New member
Username: Jacksons98

Phoenix, AZ USA

Post Number: 3
Registered: Jan-05
Also the M22ti's are bookshelf speakers so the bass is going to be lacking. I have the VP150, QS8's and the M22ti's and with a seperate sub they sound great. I think the QS4's are similiar to the QS8's and I would argue the QS8's are some of the best surround speakers ever. I love them.

Dan one thing you will probably notice is the axioms aren't near as efficient as your Cerwin Vegas. One thing Cerwin Vega is known for is you can have the crappiest 35 watt receiver and they still get really really loud. You won't have that same experience with the Axioms.The Axioms do sound awesome but you'll have to crank it higher than your use too. Let me know what you think of the MT60's. I'm moving to a new house soon and thought about using the opportunity to upgrade. :-)
 

Bronze Member
Username: Riches1

Atlanta, GA US

Post Number: 80
Registered: Apr-04
As great as the Axiom's are, if you already have Paradigm, then stay with Paradigm. I agree with elitefan above. Speakers within a brand are usually timbre matched and will sound better with other members from that brand. Do some critical listening with Axioms before you make a final decision about richness and warmth. Axioms are extremely neutral, and don't try to fool the listener by sounding bigger than they are by artificially bloating (and thereby distorting) the bass and midrange. Also read the reviews on the M22ti on audioholics.com., for a more technical explanation on these fine speakers. Don't get me wrong. I love paradigm! I used to own a pair of Mini Monitors. I just think that as far as the M22ti's vs the Mini Monitors, the Axioms are much better - IMHO.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Dan_the_man

London, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 28
Registered: Jun-04
Thanks everyone for the prompt responses.

Appreciate the review there Brad. Sorry to hear the axoims are not working out maybe the way you had anticipated. I know this is opening a can of worms by asking but how long would you consider an appropriate break in?

N jackson, my speakers are poopy. Unfortunatly i am getting to prefer tonal quality over AC/DC live concert DB levels. hopefully these things aren't too power hungry or i'll have to get a new receiver too. lol. The infinity's I currently own have this bloated bass that makes it sound like i am listening to walmart speakers. (no offence to walmart lovers) Muddy like the mississipi.

Well if anything if it doesn't work out, this has lit a fire under my a$$. I'm getting something new!! thanks again for the input people
 

New member
Username: Thereal_1_

Post Number: 5
Registered: Nov-04
It appears that many people suggest 100 hours as the average break-in time. So in a couple of weeks, I'll see if the M22Ti sounds any different. I will post more feedback then.

I had a set of Paradigm Mini Monitors before replacing them with Titans. I didn't think the Minis are in the same class as Axiom M22Ti and so it's natural for the M22 to sound better. I just thought that if my Titans sound a bit better than M22Ti, then the Monitor 5 would sound even better.

I should've timbre matched the entire set by going with Paradigm as front replacement but it was so tempting to try something new based on many positive feedback. Besides, the M22Ti was cheaper than Monitor 5 and a lot cheaper than Studio 20/40.

Anyways, I will keep an open mind with the M22Ti for a few more weeks and invite some of my friends over to see what they think.
 

jeff99
Unregistered guest
so to unfortunately start a flamewar,
there is no such thing as speaker break in.
Its your brain that is getting use to the speakers.
*You know I'm right*
 

Silver Member
Username: Riches1

Atlanta, GA US

Post Number: 107
Registered: Apr-04
I don't KNOW that you're right.

I'll meet you half way and say that I do THINK break-in is partly in the brain.

"Never trust anyone who claims to be in sole posession of the absolute truth."
 

Stealth C
Unregistered guest
The diaphragm of a speaker do need some time to "break in", just like after a year of owning your car, it will be a little quicker than when it was brand new because the engine breaks in. One hundred hours on the other hand is probably BS. I cant see much of a difference occuring between 50 and 100.
 

Gold Member
Username: Elitefan1

Post Number: 1079
Registered: Dec-03
My MA's definately needed a break in period. They mellowed considerably after 60 hours or so and I considered myself lucky to have bought my Silver center as a demo[25 hours or so] and it needed the most break in time. The break in time took away the bit of harshness that was present when new and now no harshness at all. Very noticable , at least on MA's.
 

Silver Member
Username: Stone

West CoastUSA

Post Number: 143
Registered: Dec-03
jeff99 is trying to start a flame war. He has no idea what he is talking about.
 

Stealth C
Unregistered guest
Best way to tell if its in your head is to let it break in while youre away at work during the day.
 

jeff99
Unregistered guest
Do some research please
 

Gold Member
Username: Project6

Post Number: 2362
Registered: Dec-03
It does seem like I'm the only one with Axioms around here, huh? Riches1, FIRC, don't you have Axioms?
I don't know if I believe in break-in time, but I do know that I listen to a set of speakers for at least a week before I do any sort of evaluation.
 

jeff99
Unregistered guest
If you're interested in finding out more information about "break in", perhaps a good souce might be Alan Lofft over at Axiom Audio. Here's a germane post by Alan Lofft


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Mr. H,

I'm delighted you like the M22ti's. There isn't any "break-in" time--what you in fact are doing is breaking in your own ears and hearing system to a new (and much improved) sound reproduction system.

Tests conducted at the National Research Council in Ottawa, Canada, of speakers used as "anchors" (good and bad) for our blind listening tests showed no significant or audible change in frequency response even after many years of use.

So break in those ears!

Regards,

Alan Lofft
Axiom Resident Expert
 

Anonymous
 
Hey Jeff, call Strohbeen owner of Ohm Acoustics (MIT Engineer) or Roy Johnson, chief designer for Green Mountain Audio and they will tell you differently. I would poll a lot of the smaller shops for there opinion. Each speaker has its own break in time before they have reached their own optimal performance. GMA's can take hundreds of hours to reach the sound they are capable of reaching. Just because Alan Lofft says there is no break in doesn't mean there isn't any. How long did the testing facility actually play the broke in speakers before comparing?
Side note: Personally while decently made for moderately priced speakers, I am not a fan of the axiom sound.
 

Silver Member
Username: Riches1

Atlanta, GA US

Post Number: 110
Registered: Apr-04
Berny:

Yes, I have Axiom M22ti's, QS4's, VPC 150 and EP175.

Note that Alan Lofft's comments refer only to changes in frequency response. OK that supposedly means that out of the box, the speakers play 20Hz to 20KHz and play that same range a year later.

That still doesn't mean that break in is all in the head. Speakers have other properties than mere frequency response that affect sound. I noticed an improvement in the sound stage of my speakers after about 50 hours of "break in" time.

Psycho-acoustics? Maybe, somewhat. I can't prove it but, in my opinion, the sound changed (and the variables were controlled.)

"Hey, I've been shot at; it takes a lot to hurt my feelings anymore." -Riches1
 

Bronze Member
Username: Dan_the_man

London, Ontario Canada

Post Number: 29
Registered: Jun-04
i was wondering if that was going to spark something... not my intention.

I have heard both arguements on the break in theory. I tend to follow the middle of the road on that arguement, as i'm sure the rules do not apply to each and every speaker design. I'm not an expert, but it would be foolish not to take reasonable time to listen.

For whatever reason it makes no difference to me if its the speaker or my brain. That's the important thing to me, i mean the reason i pursue this hobby is for personal enjoyment. I don't mean to be rude but i think arguing over speaker break in; is like arguing over the chicken and the egg story.

On another note the axioms so far have been very pleasant to listen to. Neutral and accurate so far. I find they sound better at moderate volume levels than at ambient levels. The finish far exeeded my expectations. They are a little more power hungry than my last set of speakers so if i end up keeping them i could see making a reciever upgrade.

The reason i ended up trying the Mt-60's is because i wanted a bi-ampable speaker for 2 channel music listening. I could serioulsy see myself doing that. And that is also a good thing.

how does that line go berny "welcome to the madness"? lol

cheers
 

Silver Member
Username: Riches1

Atlanta, GA US

Post Number: 112
Registered: Apr-04
More on break-in. This is from John Potis at soundstage.com on the Axiom M22ti's:

Moving up through the midrange, things get just a little thin and a little hard before about 100 hours of break-in after which things were better fleshed out, considerably smoothed and quite musically resolving.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Beaver

Post Number: 15
Registered: Aug-04
i just recently bought the mti60s the qs8s and the vp150. great speakers. the sound is perfect for my liking. i listened to speaker packages 4 times the amount,and the axioms are just as good if not better. you'll be very happy with them. never listened to the qs4 or the vp100. but i heard in many cases the vp100 sounds as good as the vp150. for the money you can't go wrong.
 

Anonymous
 
What happened to jeff99? Idiot...
 

jeff99
Unregistered guest
I'm right here
Axiom's' are great speakers, I have the M22's and the M60's as well as some other brands
And their sound has not changed yet after 2 years
still great
 

New member
Username: Astravitz

Jersey City, NJ

Post Number: 1
Registered: Jan-05
The break in period is true in all mechanical devices. Especially when there are moving parts. Anyone that has a wooden draw knows it opens easier and easier over time. I recently purchased all new PSB Speakers (Image T55,C60, S50 & 6i sub). The T55 sounded terrible the first few hours. Then I left them on all day with a classical CD of multiple artists. When I came home after 10 plus hours of continues play I was listening to a completly different speaker.

Far more separation of the instuments and far better on the lower volumes, overall a warmer sound. How can anyone dispute the facts that moving the rubber-surround on the woofers can change the internal properties. All substances that contain matter generally have three states (Steam, Water, Ice).

If you bend a paper clip over and over it will eventually snap. If you play a speaker for hours and hours, you will heat up the moving parts by pure friction, the louder the more friction. Sound is a wave and has wave like properties. Sound can shatter glass, can't it???

If there is no break in period then why would all the professional audio reviewers not even bother listening to a speaker until they've broken it in for a week or so. I would however agree that items like metal tweeters would have almost no break in period because there are almost no moving parts.

Now, if you want to buy snake oil, then send your cables to this company:

http://forums.designtechnica.com/showthread.php?threadid=2183
 

speaker69
Unregistered guest
Interesting thread
Moving parts yes CAN break in, does not mean they WILL break in
These parts breaking in does not mean there will be a change in what you hear, but it absolutely could be some difference.
However, would that be enought to hear a difference??
This is really a ridiculous post, because who really cares, if you want to feel you hear a difference great
Plenty of people do, plenty dont
Those tests done to "prove" there is no change are not made up tests. There was no frequency changes at all.
However, not all audible changes would show on a frequency chart
So yes the sound could change for sure, but how much change is the question
I have always believed that if you dont like the sound of a speaker when you first hear it, dont buy it, it wont change that much
but then again, who cares what I think
buy what you like and enjoy
Also,
companies and salesmen will say this speaker takes 200 hours to break in
well the return policy is 30 days or less,
the longer you hold onto the speakers waiting for them to change, the more likely you will be to hold onto them, especially past the return date
-simple sales and marketing maybe
-Food For Thought
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