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Denon avr-1905 vs harmon/kardon avr-320 vs Pioneer VSX-1014TX

 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 174
Registered: Feb-04
Denon avr-1905 vs harmon/kardon avr-320 vs Pioneer VSX-1014TX

This would be to drive Axioms M40ti's for my mother.

Here's a quick reminder of features:

Denon avr-1905
75w x 7 into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.08%THD
Has OSD, upconverts to component, 26 lbs, remote is not backlit nor learning but glows, has all pre-outs, has bass management at frequencies 40,60,80,100,120,150,200,250.

harmon/kardon avr-320
65Wx2; 50W x 7 at <0.07% THD, 20Hz - 20kHz into 8 ohms
Has OSD, does not upconvert video, 27.3 lbs, has all pre-outs and bass management at 40/60/80/100/120/200 but variable on each speaker pair.

Pioneer VSX-1014TX
110 W x 7 (20HZ - 20kHZ @ 8 ohm, 0.09% THD)
Has OSD, upconverts video to component, 34 lbs, has non-backlit learning remote, has auto room EQ at 5 frequencies.

I could get these for similar prices from the US shipped to Canada, with the Denon being a refurb and the cheapest (C$450), then the h/k (C$492) and then the Pioneer for still a little more (C$560).

There's also the Marantz SR4400 (US$299, same as the Denon; no Canadian price yet because hifi.com Canadian checkout doesn't work right now) but the Marantz SR5400 is too expensive (US$450, way more than the ones listed above; I don't think the $50 rebate works on the Canadian checkout).

Comments? :-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 883
Registered: Feb-04
I'll still say the 1014 is a very clear champion here, there's no way the others would compare to it. You'll have to go up to AVR2805, AVR430, SR5500 to match the 1014.
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 175
Registered: Feb-04
Thanks Landroval,

In anothet thread, you said that the Denon avr-1905 has weak amps. Is this based on a review or your own examination of them, or audition? What exactly do you mean by that? I really appreciate the advice since I'm buying without hearing them (I do have an h/k avr-325 so assume that the h/k avr-320 would be similar).

Also, one more for the comparison... The older NAD T-742 for US$399 (or US$369 refurbished). I'm a little weary of importing NAD from the US because of the problems with NADs reported on this forum...

Thanks!
Peter
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 178
Registered: Feb-04
Hey Hawk!

I just read your post on the speaker forum about the T-742. I am very encouraged about the NAD. I'll see if I can find it at a place that ships to Canada for that price. A google search for it in Canada finds it half a continent away at C$900!
 

Silver Member
Username: Hawk

Highlands Ranch, CO USA

Post Number: 669
Registered: Dec-03
Sheeesh! C$900--they must be kidding! Check with DMC Electronics (www.dmc-electronics.com) or Spearit Sound (www.spearitsound.com) to see if they will ship to Canada.

Another idea--the NAD L70 is essentially a 742, but with a DVD player built in (and a nicer exterior finish). I have heard it and it has the same great sound as the 742. I note that Yawa has it for $499 (www.yawaonline.com). Perhaps they will ship to Canada if you are interested.

Good luck, my friend!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Rkvfire

Vancouver, British Colu... Canada

Post Number: 86
Registered: Aug-04
u said the pioneer 1014 is C$560.. wow, my dad bought his for C$758 at visions.. what a price drop!
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 182
Registered: Feb-04
Not a price drop Slade. Just that receivers are overpriced in Canada. The price I quote includes shipping, duties and taxes to your door but from an American seller. My local price for a 1014TX is C$799, which is why i'm not buying it here.


Hawk, Spearit Sound would be willing to ship a NAD to Canada, so I'll talk to my mother about it. Thanks! The price would probably end up being around C$600 shipped to my door, which is a bit more than the Pioneer VSX-1014TX. Does everyone agrees the NAD is a better choice?

I think either would be fine for my mother (even the h/k avr-230), but the simplicity of the NAD would be best for my mother. Is there a picture of the NAD T-742 remote control anywhere?
 

New member
Username: Morganrm15

Post Number: 4
Registered: Oct-04
I found the Pioneer 1014 here for around $350
http://www.mydigitaluniverse.com/Show.asp?PID=2730
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 184
Registered: Feb-04
Right Morgan, the price I quoted is in Canadian dollars after shipping, duties and Canadian tax. The original price at www.ecost.com is $368, and yours is $356.

Last call, or close to it anyway!
The contenders are:

Denon avr-1905 (refurbished) C$450
h/k avr-320 (new) C$492
Pioneer VSX-1014TX (new) C$560
NAD T-742 (new) about C$590

(Prices include everything. I'm guessing on the NAD's final price by adding only the GST tax to the cost+shipping, both of which I know, but there's likely a tax processing charge of $10 or so but I'm assuming no duties. Shopping via www.borderfree.com is so much easier.)

My mother is not likely to ever update this. I think in about 10 years I'd be happier seeing an h/k or NAD sitting there than the others, with the advantage going to NAD. But that's just a feeling; nothing rational.

What do you guys think? :-)

landover doesn't like the Denon's amp (but i don't know why).
Hawk prefers the sound of the NAD; he has one and has double-blind compared it to other more expensive units.
 

Anonymous
 
And you think Canada is expensive!!

http://www.avland.co.uk/pioneer/vsx1014/vsx1014.htm
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 887
Registered: Feb-04
£599 = ~$1100. Very good price when compared to the $380 they're paying for it in the US.
 

Anonymous
 
Yeah, makes me want to go and pay £599 for it...not, but you know they'll say it's different to the US version in that...........bs
 

Silver Member
Username: Smitty

Canada

Post Number: 137
Registered: Dec-03
Peter,

Have you tried calling any local NAD dealers? I picked up a T742 a year ago for C$650, if you can find a local dealer that has one, or can get one, I'd be suprised if they're more than C$600 now. They had marked them down when the new T7x3 line was introduced.

NAD and Marantz aren't quite as overpriced in Canada as some other makes (i.e H/K and Denon). I *think* the Marantz SR5400 for instance retails for around C$700.
 

New member
Username: Blitzschnell

QubecCanada

Post Number: 1
Registered: Oct-04
Wow !, just discovered that Avr-330 is 1300 $ at future shop and I could get one for only C$ 668.94 at etronics.com via borderfree.com. Hey, Canadian reseller Wake-up !
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 189
Registered: Feb-04
Smitty, I'll call the local place. But even last winter they no longer had any T-742 and they were never discounted.

Hugo, yeah, that's what I'm talking about. See also ecost.com; they also have "refursbished" models for even better discounts. I got my h/k avr-325 (a 40 lbs beast) last april from there for about C$650 total.

So... to bring this back into my topic (sorry!), any last thoughts about the contenders:

Denon avr-1905 (refurbished) C$450
h/k avr-320 (new) C$492
Pioneer VSX-1014TX (new) C$560
NAD T-742 (new) about C$590

landover doesn't like the Denon's amp (but i don't know why).
Hawk prefers the sound of the NAD; he has one and has double-blind compared it to other more expensive units.
 

New member
Username: Blitzschnell

QubecCanada

Post Number: 2
Registered: Oct-04
I owned a Avr-320, it was a very good machine until I discovered a bug in logic 7 mode. When using a digital source, the surround channels was producing distortion on some recording. I explained my problem to Harman Kardon USA( not the canadian distributor) and they told me that it was a bug in the sound processing algorithm. Even if that particular problem wasn't a major concern for me, they exchanged my 1 year old unit for a new 330, no charge, plus, they gave my an additionnal 2 years warranty. That's what I call pretty good customer service ! I would have keep the unit if they did'nt offer me to replace it.
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 190
Registered: Feb-04
That's great service from an out-of-country distributor for sure! I personnaly have an avr-325 so I like the brand, but I'll admit that the NAD T-742 was out of my budget when I purchased 6 months ago. I probably would have bought it at that price.

Welcome to the forum Hugo! We're practically neighbours (also given that I'm shopping for a receiver for my mother who lives in Quebec City). Bienvenue !

If there are no strong posts for the Pioneer, I'll probably be ordering the NAD tomorrow. Thanks!
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 194
Registered: Feb-04
Okay, I just called ecost.com and the Denon avr-1905 refurb is still not available and they don't have a timeline. It's been 3 weeks so I cancelled the order.

So... I'm about to pull the trigger on the NAD T742. With all the recent talk on the Pioneer VSX-1014TX, I'm surprised nobody has stepped in to recommend buying it. No strong opinions anyone?

A few questions about the NAD:

- It has an On Screen Display, right?
- Any picture of the remote anywhere?

Thanks,
Peter
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 195
Registered: Feb-04
I said:

With all the recent talk on the Pioneer VSX-1014TX, I'm surprised nobody has stepped in to recommend buying it. No strong opinions anyone?

Looking back at the thread, landroval (not landover, sorry about that!) did endorse this model. But this was before the idea of a NAD came up...
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 897
Registered: Feb-04
I dont know about the T742. Maybe it sounds good with music, but I would probably get the 1014 for the plethora of extra features and power it offers compared to the small NAD. In HT use the Pioneer will probably eat the NAD alive. Also the ease of setup with the eq-microphone, nice OSD and video upconversion could be important features for most users. Not to forget the variable BM x-over and great remote over the quite ordinary low-end AVR2 of the T742.
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 196
Registered: Feb-04
Thanks for posting landroval,

I hear the Pioneer is complicated to setup. This receiver is for my mother who is not tech-savy. I'll set it up for her, but it has to maintain its setting through a power failure or else I'm done for.
So in this case, the simplicity of the NAD might be a good thing! :-)

I have just found out that the T742 has limited bass management and no OSD, and I haven't seen its remote...

What's "AVR2" ?

I'm still undecided. The variable quality issues with NAD also make me fear an out-of-country purchase since that complicates warranty issues.
A friend who sells NAD told me that the early T742's had major problems. A huge batch was sent back for firmware upgrades and the problems were fixed; But would I be getting a fixed one? He will check tomorrow to see if they have any and whether they can come close to the US price.
 

New member
Username: Topher

Post Number: 10
Registered: Dec-03
Isn't the HK 320 a 5 channel unit? I think it processes 7 channel sound, but you need a seperate amp.
I have a 325 & love the sound, but it doesn't have enough inputs. I don't have an HDTV (yet) so I can live without the video upconversion, but that may be a problem when I upgrade my TV.
One thing I found out I'd really like to have is zone 2 monitor out. That way I could control XBMC upstairs without having to set zone 1 to that input. I may sell the unit because of that.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Topher

Post Number: 11
Registered: Dec-03
Oh yeah, I also meant to complain about high prices.
I got my 325 last year at Future Shop on close out. It was regularly $1500! They had it $500 off & 2 days later they had a customer appreciation sale, so I got another $100 off.
I think it's worth the $900, but as a regular price.
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 199
Registered: Feb-04
Hi Topher,

For my mother, 5.1 would be enough. Also, why is upconversion to component uvideo seful for HDTV? Doesn't that use some other connector altogether?

I have an h/k 325 for myself which I got, factory reconditionned, for C$620 last spring (shipping and GST included) from the US.
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 200
Registered: Feb-04
Topher, looking at the h/k 320, it looks to have processing for 7.1 but amplified outputs for 6.1. But thanks for the heads-up.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Topher

Post Number: 12
Registered: Dec-03
With upconversion to component, you only have to run component cables to the TV & the receiver will convert the signal from your vcr, satelite, etc. & pass it to your TV so you don't have to switch inputs on your TV. Of course, you'll need to turn the receiver on to watch TV.
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 201
Registered: Feb-04
Yes, but why for HDTV? I thought HDTV used a different connection than component...
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 204
Registered: Feb-04
I am thinking of HDMI, but I don't have an HDTV yet so I am not an expert. I guess they also have component inputs.
 

Silver Member
Username: Smitty

Canada

Post Number: 139
Registered: Dec-03
Peter,


quote:

"I have just found out that the T742 has limited bass management and no OSD, and I haven't seen its remote..."



The T742 has a fixed 80Hz crossover. If you go to the NAD site you can download the manual which has a picture of the remote.

Feature-wise it is very lean. No OSD, fixed crossover, no reassignable digitial inputs, no component video switching. I believe NAD added most of these features to the T743. The sound is great though, and it's very simple to operate.

As for the quality, my local dealer claims they haven't had any problems with the T742. Personally, I wouldn't buy one via mail-order though but that goes for any brand.

If you like H/K I notice Future Shop is clearing out the AVR130s for C$400. A friend of mine has one with on-wall paradigm speakers and the sound is pretty good. I suspect they'll also be discounting the AVR230s soon as the AVR235 is now available.
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 206
Registered: Feb-04
Smitty,

I guess I could live with fixed 80 Hz (also considering my mother is not using a sub in this room, but that may change).

I could't find a link for the reemote from here:
http://www.nadelectronics.com/av_receivers/T742_closerlook.htm
but I did download the manual and saw an illustration. Now I know what landroval meant by "AVR2": it's the remote!

No reassignable digital inputs? Ouch. So optical is DVD and coaxial is Sat. My think my Sat has only optical output... But my mother currently has only the DVD as a digital input.

About the h/k, I remember seeing some kind of special last week on Future Shop's web site but its no longer there. It's back at C$800 or so. It doesn't have all pre-outs so I'm eliminating it. I could go for the 230...

I don't mind buying online except when brands are known to have problems.
 

Silver Member
Username: Smitty

Canada

Post Number: 140
Registered: Dec-03
Peter,

Sat and DVD is optical, CD and VCR(?) is coax digitial input. Oh, it doesn't have digital outputs either.

Yea, I just noticed as well the H/Ks are no longer on sale at Future Shop. I suspect they'll go on sale again soon though, my guess is the AVR230 should go for $500-$600. They're already selling the AVRx35 series.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Rkvfire

Vancouver, British Colu... Canada

Post Number: 92
Registered: Aug-04
future shop is the crappiest place to buy electronics.. im tellin ya. sales people dont know squat. Visions i prefer plus its fun to know the manager and get 40% off :-). yeah the h/k avr-330 is 1200 bux, at future shop! just lookin in the flyer.. tahts not includeing gst, or pst. as for the 1014.. my dad quite enjoys it.. music is terrible, the radio sounds like crap aswell. he only uses it for movies anyway so.. lol thats my 2cents.
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 209
Registered: Feb-04
Thanks Smitty. I guess the manual was misleading on that. Why a VCR need digital input, I'll never figure out.

The h/k avr-320 can be had for C$492 shipped to your door (GST included) from etronics. I'm considering it! I have almost plugged the trigger on the NAD, but the h/k does have sweeter bass management and an OSD. But I'm intrigued about this "NAD sound" I keep hearing about.

At least now I won't be disappointed by the NAD's lack of features if I order it. I had no idea it was so sparse!

I don't think I'll go with the Pioneer because I've been told the setup is very complicated. What's your opinion on that Slade?
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 903
Registered: Feb-04
I dont really understand what's complicated in the Pioneer setup. Just press one button and the mic will measure everything. The logical OSD is much easier to use than no OSD at all.
 

Silver Member
Username: Elitefan1

Post Number: 790
Registered: Dec-03
Landroval is right. If you can't setup a Pioneer you can't set up any receiver. You can use the auto setup or do it manually which I choose to do and it's no harder than any other brand. Very simple if you have a sound level meter which anyone should have anyway.
 

Silver Member
Username: Smitty

Canada

Post Number: 142
Registered: Dec-03
Peter,

I almost didn't buy the T742 because it's features were so limited. I was considering holding out for the T743 since it added most of the missing features, but at this point I'm glad I stuck with the T742 given the hiss/hum issues with the T743.

The NADs do sound very nice, if you browse around the various forums you'll notice a variety of opinions on the sound of H/K, Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer etc., but it's very rare to see a post complaining about the sound quality of the NAD receivers --- build quality well that's another story :-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 210
Registered: Feb-04
Thanks guy,

I was told by my neighbour (who sells Pioneer, NAD and Denon) that the Pioneer has a complicated OSD with submenus. This would be fine for me, but perhaps not for my mother who is her 70s. I'm also 200 miles away and can't drop by to reset it after a power failure. I haven't seen the OSD myself.

But yeah, the full features of the Pioneer are attractive, the low price and solid build of the h/k 230 are attractive, and I'm intrigued about the NAD's sound. Since simplicity might be an advantage here, I might just go with that and the NAD.

No one has said that the Pioneer will sound better than the NAD, right?

I don't want to appear critical of your input; I value it!
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 211
Registered: Feb-04
You guys are going to think I can't make up my mind (and you'd be right!) but i'm looking at the Pioneer VSX-1014TX again (versus the NAD T742).
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 212
Registered: Feb-04
After way too much time thinking about it all, I pulled the trigger and ordered the NAD. I'm sure either would make a fine choice and I would have liked to play with the Pioneer. But in the end, it's for my mother and the simplicity of the NAD works as an advantage here.

Thanks everyone! I'll revisit the thread when it's all setup to report back.

Peter
 

Bronze Member
Username: Rkvfire

Vancouver, British Colu... Canada

Post Number: 93
Registered: Aug-04
hey peter,

the OSD on the pioneer is really simple actually. my dad, who is 52, doesnt know what hes doin lol, i just wrote it down, and told him and he can do it fine now. the modes, thx, etc switching from movie modes, he doesnt know what hes doin. but i told him now he knows. Your mom is 70, now thats a kick A@@ momma. haha rockin with a new receiver and these speakers! my grandparents dont even watch tv loudly, and when it is loud they turn it almost all the way down. but in power failure, they had a black out 3 days ago, and my dad doesnt have a surge protector and had all of his components on. they didnt fry, thank god. i think ill buy him a surge protector for christmas. all the settings are the same, as i made to them. didnt change or anything. so i think your good to go there peter. i see u orderd the nad. cool stuff.. just answering ur question :-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 213
Registered: Feb-04
Thanks Slade,

Had you replied before I ordered, I might have been pushed in that directions. I was on the edge. But earlier you said you didn't like it on music, so that counted against. :-)

Anyway, it's done. Until the next time anyway!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Rkvfire

Vancouver, British Colu... Canada

Post Number: 98
Registered: Aug-04
lol sorry bout that,

yeah music does kinda suck real bad on it. the radio is really echo-ie. really annoying... good for ht though. how is the nad? or did u get it yet.. ur from quebec i see, what was the shipping they charged. and also wehre did u get it from?
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 223
Registered: Feb-04
Should be in next week. Got it from www.spearitsound.com as suggested by Hawk. They charged US$55 for air shipping to Canada, which is fair. The service was nice and friendly.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Rkvfire

Vancouver, British Colu... Canada

Post Number: 100
Registered: Aug-04
55 thats great price! did u have to pay extra tax or duty? ill haveta give it a look good luck with ur NAD :-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 240
Registered: Feb-04
Had I known what I know now, I would not have purchased a T742 from the US. ;-)

Is it a bad choice? No.
Will we be happy with it? Most likely!

Then what's up? I just found out yesterday that you can get factory refurbished NADs on ebay in Canada, from Canada. I got a NAD T752 for a friend early this morning for US$455 plus shipping and GST. Fantastic price for a fantastic product!
 

Silver Member
Username: Rkvfire

Vancouver, British Colu... Canada

Post Number: 102
Registered: Aug-04
lol, i guess all it takes is searching around. refurbished ones, still come with a warranty?
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 242
Registered: Feb-04
2-year warranty from NAD Canada. Probably better than importing from the US!
 

Silver Member
Username: Rkvfire

Vancouver, British Colu... Canada

Post Number: 103
Registered: Aug-04
ive been lookin on ebay.. doesnt say anything about NAD.. just the vintage stuff, and cd players.
 

Silver Member
Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec Canada

Post Number: 243
Registered: Feb-04
Look at completed listings. New auctions turn up every couple of weeks or so...
 

Silver Member
Username: Rkvfire

Vancouver, British Colu... Canada

Post Number: 106
Registered: Aug-04
cool, ill have a look thanx.
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