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Archive through October 26, 2004

 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
Jan - well-written. No further comments needed.

Kegger - if I had a setup like yours strewn about the living room - well, my wife would likely rearrange parts of my anatomy that you don't even want to think about! G R I N
I'd like to compliment you - but frankly, I'm speechless. Looks like you're eating well, though! (double grin)
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
Rantz, my good long-distance friend - you need to do what Jan V. strongly urged me to do earlier today - listen to more music! Stop trying to evaluate tweaks - just take the advice of Uncle Jan in Dallas and Uncle Lar in Swampville: "vote early and often and never, ever let 'em see you sweat!"
Oh, yes - Jan IS just as good looking as he was 20 years ago - he told me so!!! (0.7?) Hmmm. . .
I, of course, am not. Sigh. But then I'm MUCH older than Jan! (he told me that, too!)
You want some fascinating music, take Ojo's advice and round up one of Claude Bolling's CDs - I like the one for flute and jazz piano. Think you will, too. Bolling weaves jazz with light classical interpretations, and all comes out quite lyrical and just "fun."
More anon. . .
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1703
Registered: Dec-03
I do consider myself lucky larry.


I have a descent understanding of electronics.
I can solder with the best of them.
As of now my job pays pretty good. "and i don't mind it"
I'm in fairly good health. "could loose some weight"
My bills are upto date.
I love doing electronic projects.
feel very lucky to live in a country like the u.s.

AND THE WHOLE BASEMEANT IS MINE! "need the whole thing for my experiments"

I know most of you on this thread are happily married
and from the way many talk are lucky to have the spouses
that you have and enjoy 1 anothers company.

I ENVY THAT!


 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
Kegger - please refrain from mentioning weight loss - it makes me cry! (grin)
And I envy you, sir, in your ability to "solder with the best of them." Way, way back in the darker ages I used to build such things as "Heathkits," and spent a goodly amount of time cleaning up excess solder and replacing capacitors that I'd "fried." Hmmm. . . I think soldering must be a talent, like violin-playing?
And ah, yes - basements. Here in Swampville if we tried to have a basement - well, we'd just have a built-in swimming pool! The water table here is about two feet under the surface - and basements are NOT an option! (grin)
Happy testing. . .
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2336
Registered: Dec-03
Catching up is hard to do. As the Righteous, or possibly Walker, brothers, might have sung.

Ghia,

I am with you. And with Jan. However, I depair at what politicians are doing to exploit the hostages to their personal advantage. In UK the Defence Secretary claims that only his political party is concerned with the execution of a man from Liverpool. And said man's relatives and friends are still grieving. The same unspeakably callous oaf appeared on TV the day David Kelly's body was discovered, to claim Kelly had been driven to suicide by the BBC, then he went to see his widow for a personal chat. There are no words for guys like that. And he is still in office. Not to mention the timing of deployment of The Black Watch to N. Iraq. Really.

There is an argument, of course, that diverting the world's media, and even mudane discussions such as ours, is precisely what the terrorists want. It is not, then, a bad thing to carry on discussing music and sound quality. It does not at all mean we are not concerned about other things, too. One of Mrs T's memorable phrases, about the IRA, was that they should be deprived of the oxygen of publicity. There is something in that.

I am going to change gear. No choice.

I am so glad you liked that DVD, Ghia. I thought the interview was cool. As I said before, it changed my mind about Gus and Alma. Did you notice the naughty word Rattle used to describe the Adagietto? I think my mother-in-law is in love with Simon Rattle.

Jan,

Now, your views on SPL meters are well-known. Can you explain why an amp needs to have meters on the front? What are they measuring? What do they tell us, and what are we suppose to do about it?

Thanks for the comparison chart. I forgot the word "portable" before "MP3 player". Anyone dedicated enough to carry around a McIntosh MVP851 DVD / CD Audio Video Player with power supply, attached to his/her belt, for listening on headphones, deserves only deep respect and admiration.

It seems that McIntosh has not implemented SACD, either. That puts them in with Arcam, Naim, Merdian. I agree about Linn, not what it once was. They left the path of wisdom when they started making CDs, in my opinion.

Start of rant.

BTW I understand top-range Volvos now have a Dolby Prologic sound system installed and wired in. That is about what I would expect. Wonder where they put the centre speaker?

The general sales pitch discloses a Volvo driver as someone who cannot tell whether the engine is running; whether the car is moving; is blindly oblivious to pedestrians, cyclists, etc.; whether (s)he is driving with the tailgate open; and who has not got enough sense to switch the lights on when it gets dark, to see and be seen. It is a wonder they do not have the wipers on all the time, in case it rains, and the driver fails to notice (s)he can't see the road any more. My general conslusion is that such people should not be driving cars at all. Not on public roads. The last V*lv* I hired had chronic oversteer, having been designed by a committee, I think, half of which expected it to be front wheel drive. They probably had a vote to keep the transmission shaft when the original designers were at their summer houses. And the battery of warning lights. "Do you know you are in reverse gear?" "Of course I bl••dy well do; I put there - who's driving this thing?" They are made in The Netherlands because of labour costs, AL.

Not as bad as the Ford Escape (what a name) I drove in Canada. It warned me every time I put on the handbrake. The footbrake is for slowing down. Keeping the car stationary is the job of the handbrake. The latter is correctly applied e.g. at traffic lights. Every road junction, I had to endure this beeping noise, until in the end I gave up and did what they wanted, and held it with the footbrake. All those wretched warning lights and beepers made it nearly impossible to drive safely. It even had a beeper to tell you you were going backwards, if you didn't know, and how close you were to something behind. For people who had never worked out what the rear-view mirror was for, I guess.

Sorry, Larry knows my sensitivity about brake pedals.

I suppose everyone know the difference between a porcupine and a Volvo full of academics.

End of rant.

God, that feels better.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2337
Registered: Dec-03
Kegger,

Great photo. I had not seen it when I went into that last post. Those golden-looking bass-midrange units do not seem to have cones. ?

I too find that beer is a good Cd enhancer.

I think the Good Life must be having a family AND a basement to do experiments.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2338
Registered: Dec-03
Kegger,

Going back to October 21, 2004 - 01:11 am, what are those seven South Park characters doing standing around the room, watching you listen?
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 934
Registered: Aug-04
"It even had a beeper to tell you you were going backwards, if you didn't know, and how close you were to something behind."

I agree about many of the silly warning signals except for the one above - if it warns only one more child that it's father is about to back over it, then it's a very worthwhile safety option. Just this weekend another child was killed by his father in such a manner. It happens all to often.

Let's keep the reversing signals no matter how annoying. Not everyone is always as observant as they should be.


Re: Volvos.

Years ago here in Aus if one saw a driver either wearing a hat or had one positioned on the rear deck, it was a sign to steer clear. If one came close to someone driving a Morris 1100 the warning was similar. If someone was close to a Morris 1100 driver with a hat then it was probably too late.

Now the same rules apply to Volvo drivers under any condition. But, as Dudley Moore said in the movie "Crazy People": Volvos - they're boxy but they're good!

Maybe having the edges rounded off a bit they might lose their inglorius rep.


Re: McIntosh Audio products.

If one cares to check the prices here in Aus you'll understand the lack of interest - also our population is too small to find any on the second hand market - that is, provided anyone in this country has had the funds to purchase a Mac kit. Sixty Minutes told us that we spend more on our pets than we do on foreign aide. Well, charity begins at home I guess.

http://www.mcintosh.net.au

Politics re: Iraq - best to talk to those who have had to live under the dark cloud of Husseins tyranny imo.

My Rantz & Raves

 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2339
Registered: Dec-03
My Rantz,

"Politics re: Iraq - best to talk to those who have had to live under the dark cloud of Husseins tyranny imo"

I totally agree. But they are sending out mixed signals. Some of the people who lived under Hussein have just attacked an Australian regiment, for example. And the voices heard most clearly around the world are the ones on those obscene videos being distributed, for provocation. This hardly counts as being welcomed as bringers of peace, justice and democracy.

Actually, you know, the Morris 1100 was a hazard when driven by anyone. But the Morris 1000, there was a car.

The point about reversing a car is that you know you have restricted vision. Check there is no-one behind before reversing. Go slowly. Turn round and look behind, with the rear window clear (free of hats etc); don't even rely on the mirror; that is for checking what's behind you when you are moving forwards. If you can't see that the path of the vehicle is clear, such as in a van with no rear window, get someone you can trust to stand where they can see it, and follow his/her directions.

Not wishing to get solemn, a warning buzzer can make things more dangerous; not less. It can do that by giving the driver the impression he has an all-clear to reverse, even if he can't see where the car is going. My general opinion is that Volvo "safety" features are there for the driver whose main concern is that nothing can be proved to be his fault.

Nice McIntosh link. Yes, if I had that much to spend on hifi I think there is much more from which to choose. I still wonder what the meters are for. Marantz amps had those, too. Also Denon. I can see some point of signal level meters on tape recorders, but not on amps.
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
John A. - sorry, but I must side with those who favor backup signals. Because there are too many people who are not as intelligent or careful as you are. Here, trucks above a certain weight are mandated to have the things. While they are noisy and to many people objectionable, they have been proven to save many lives. Newspaper interviews over the years have pointed that out - and I, myself, have been saved by their use.
Drivers - either elderly or kids - too often are in a hurry to get somewhere, and simply put the car in reverse, and hit the accelerator. And if a slow dog or small child happens to be under the driver's "radar," too bad.
Here in SW Florida there are many very, very old people who insist on driving, though they wind up daily on the "accident" listings. There is a running "joke" in the press about shrunk-down people driving huge cars - you see these cars on the road all the time, but cannot see a driver. Said driver is so short that he/she can barely see where they are going - let alone behind their vehicle.
One day I was walking to my car - from the grocery store, I believe - when I saw two of these "little old people" backing out of their respective parking places - slowly, fortunately.
As they were on opposite sides of the lane, they backed right into each other - and then kept gunning their engines, not understanding I guess that they couldn't go farther because there was a big wall of steel blocking their path!
Ah! But you may argue that backup beepers wouldn't have helped, because they probably couldn't hear them, either! Maybe so - but those beepers would have saved injury to errant pedestrians who dare - like me - to actually walk through these Florid-Duh! parking lots! (grin)
(see Larry put big foot on brake - and push!!)

Shifting gears - ahem - John, those meters and blue lights and blinking LEDs are all there because many people actually love to sit down, pop open a brew, put on a CD, then gaze fondly at their stereo gear as though it were some kind of Buddha - as, indeed, many people admit. They LOVE their amps and players because of sleek design and those marvelous lights and thangs that go swish-swish in the night. Rationality has nothing with it to do, my friend! (double grin)

And good morning to you, sir! I intend to stay out of the Iraq discussions, mainly because Mer says I get too upset, and then have three teu mannie m-aaartiinies. Uh. . .

More anon - with great respect.
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
OK, John - what IS the difference between a p-pine and a car full of academics?

Ball in your court. . . (grin)

(another grin)
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 935
Registered: Aug-04
"The point about reversing a car is that you know you have restricted vision. Check there is no-one behind before reversing. Go slowly. Turn round and look behind, with the rear window clear (free of hats etc); don't even rely on the mirror; that is for checking what's behind you when you are moving forwards. If you can't see that the path of the vehicle is clear, such as in a van with no rear window, get someone you can trust to stand where they can see it, and follow his/her directions."

Gee, thanks for telling me that John. Obviously I don't need to remind you how daft I am at times - it's truly amazing I don't keep backing over kids running out behind my car. That great info would have helped me to get top marks 35 years ago when applying for my drivers licence.

Remember John, not every driver is as astute as you. Not every driver will scan the immediate area quite as well as you might. Not every driver will forsee the old lady who is a little lost in space step out behind the car as it begins to reverse. If only the sound of a backing signal snapped the child to attention and made him decide to stand up and be seen as dad was backing down the driveway feeling secure in the knowlege all his charges were safely tucked away inside the house. Yes, the stupid moron should have done a driveway walk first just in case - but the innocent kid still died from a crushed skull. Lock the idiot father up for twenty-five years to make sure he suffers for his sin!

What should be and what is John are rarely the same thing IMO!
 

Master Po
Unregistered guest
What DO you know of Buddha, grasshopper?
 

Forum admirer
Unregistered guest
Master Po - sir, if you have something to add to our discussion, please state it. Otherwise, please take your comments to one of those "lesser" forums, such as Audioholics, where snide remarks are welcome.

Respectfully,
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
Ojo, et al - my, what a happy time this ayem, when, thanks to your "prodding," I am playing the Claude Bolling discs! Mer always loved them, and said they made her feel "happy and warm." Hmmm. now down heah in Swampville, the "warm" part is not needed! (grin)
Am going onto Amazon to look up the other discs you mention - and will surely wind up adding them to my collection, even though (sigh) they are not in SACD format - at least not yet!
"Going to Amazon" is always scary for me, because I seem to lose what self-control I have, and a few days later - ding - I have a nice, large brown box on my doorstep, and an inquiring wife: "well, Lar, what did you order NOW?!?"
Hmmm. . . bet NOBODY else on this forum has that problem, right?
Restraint not being my strong suit, I must be careful here.

GHIA - upon your response and comments, I shall indeed look for the Rattle/Mahler - it is always a good thing for me to hear/read comments on a particular recording - makes it somehow validated more than a third-hand "review" in magazines or Online.

More anon. . .
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2340
Registered: Dec-03
MR and Larry,

Point well taken. I certainly agree with beepers warning people, expecially children, behind, of a vehicle approaching, in reverse gear. I was thinking of the alarm, inside the cab or car, reporting to the driver that the thing is moving backwards. If the driver did not already know that, the problem is serious, I think, and cannot be addressed with alarms.

A lady over the road from us often comes gunning out of her driveway in reverse, without even looking over her shoulder. There is only so much you can do with technology and gadgets. The real problem is drivers.

Thank you for rising to the bait, Larry.

But you've got to promise not to take offence, and stop posting!

A: The porcupine has the pr*cks on the OUTside.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2341
Registered: Dec-03
Larry,

This is really nice.

According to http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr, your "Jamaica Farewell" comes back from the Dutch as follows:-

I am this way only, thus very only
because I miss something beautiful for me
gone my heart that cries, I feel myself dark and down
I left my little girl behind ginds, in Kingston-town
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1704
Registered: Dec-03
john:

"Great photo. I had not seen it when I went into that last post. Those golden-looking bass-midrange units do not seem to have cones. ?"

If you have not seen any drivers that have the flat dust
covers they can look a little strange.

They are suppose to give a more even dispersion and add to
the overall strength of the unit. "who knows they look and work nice"

Those are the klipsch rb-35's very efficent,sound good and can take
a beating. Those are my rear centers. "7.1"

http://www.klipsch.com/product/product.aspx?cid=659&section=specs


"Going back to October 21, 2004 - 01:11 am, what are those seven South Park characters doing standing around the room, watching you listen?"

your right I never noticed it before they do look like south
park dudes! lol

 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
John A. - L O L - luv it, luv it, luv it - and no offense (Amerikan spelling) John - and I know Mer will love it, too. She is a very "enlightened" person - having lived with a news reporter for some 23 years, she HAS to be!!!
But news reporters - especially anchor-people - don't necessarily have to be bright - take the well-known(?) story of the first anchorman ever in space.
There they are - a Russian Cosmonaut, an American Astronaut - and the anchorman. In low orbit around earth - their final goal up to them to decide.
The American (bullying his way in first, of course!) says: "As I see it, we must go back to the moon. After all, there's gold left there, and live TV so everybody on Earth can see us, and heck, there's even a car!"
Silence, then the Russian chimes in: "Typical short-sighted American thinking! If we are going to break records and become famous there is only one place for us to go - Mars!"
Gasps from the other two, then silence. Finally, the anchorman says: "you are both wrong-headed here. To become truly famous, there is only one place for us to go - the Sun!"
"What?!?" the others challenge. "You're out of your mind! If we get within even a million miles of the Sun we'll burn to a crisp!"
The anchorman motions for silence and says:"Oh, I've thought of that - but I also have the answer to your challenge - WE GO AT NIGHT!"

See - that's the kind of thinking that I've been around a long, long time, John. No wonder I'm warped! GRIN

More anon. . . (unless I've been killed by then)
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
John A. - with that translation, no wonder the Dutch are no longer a world power! (grin)
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
Kegger - my friend, as one who understands music more than electronics (which all of you must realize by now!) I've got a question.
You have the grills, or dust covers, OFF your speakers. Aside from inviting damage by flying objects (you DO occasionally get angry and toss those beer bottles? GRIN) what difference does it make in sound quality?
I have read many places that to get "clean" sound, remove the grills. Well, I've tried that, and never heard any difference. What am I missing here, sir?

 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1705
Registered: Dec-03
well lar several factors come into play in regards to grills.

depending on how they are designed.

can cause: defraction,muffled sound,boomy bass or many other
anomalies.

some manufacturers take the time to design a grill that
limits it's "bad qualities" some even design
with the grill in mind and it's part of the design of
the speaker. some even go as far as voicing the speaker with
and or without the grill so you will have a certain advantage or
disadvantage to the grill being on or off.

but I would say most speakers will perform better with
nothing in front of their drivers. main resons being defraction and
the restriction of the sonics getting through the cloth.

Personally lar I have speant a lot of time and money
on my electronics. so I don't throw things and have
no kids nor do any kids come into my basemeant.

"I have some stupid friends though that I have to watch"
Sometimes they can't seem to understand what all this stuff intails!

Not to mention I like to look at the pretty drivers!

Kinda like all the pretty gauges and lights on the electronics.
Like you said look really cool with the lights dimmed and your
sitting back with your favorite beverage!


 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1706
Registered: Dec-03
also larry I have an equalizer with a pink noise generator that also
has a calibration microphone.

When I test speakers there is quite a bit of difference in the
measuremeants with and without the grills. So I design/voice
my speakers without the grills on.

Now you could try to get an average measurement and design
for a middle ground "which some manufacturers may do"
but from what i've been told manufactures usually
test the speakers with no grills on.
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 936
Registered: Aug-04
Master Po

"What DO you know of Buddha, grasshopper?"

Was he not the old fat bald guy who said, "When girl is pretty as picture - usually have nice frame!"

John A

I have two feet on the brakes. Sorry I misunderstood your internal warning signal for the external one. But your response seemed so condescending I simply had to dive right in.

Larry,

Sorry I missed your thread "Monday, October 25, 2004 - 12:40 am"

The fact is I have been listening to a lot of music - too much if there is such a thing! Actually, for me it is a trap: working from home has advantages but often motivation has to be forced fed.

Pledge: I did make a pledge to try Pledge but typically, the referred spray seems absent from the furniture polish shelves in our locale. Will keep trying as I am interested to see if I can hear any improvement on some older cd's.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1707
Registered: Dec-03
Actually rantz I mistook johns response too.

But after realizing what john meant i have to side with him.
I hate those backup beepers. "yu know the ones to say your backing up"

The ones to let you know something is there are a great idea.
"as long people don't take it for granted that if it doesn't
beep there must not be anything there" like john said!
You still have to use your brain!


 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest



"Can you explain why an amp needs to have meters on the front? What are they measuring? What do they tell us, and what are we suppose to do about it?"


Once again the answer to the question posed is; it depends. On a McIntosh amplifier they are intended to be used primarily by the tecnicians that reqire a measuring tool to evaluate what amount of voltage is coming from the amplifier. Switching is provided to adjust the sensitivty of the meters to several ranges. Mac does have, still, a loyal group of people who purchase McIntosh equipment for its accuracy in something other than a consumer audio context. Would this be the only way to measure the output of the amplifier? Most likely not, but it is a tool for those that wish to use it as such.

For the consumer the meters are generally not as useful simply because people don't pay attention to the meters. When you consider the difference between 600 and 1200 watts is 3 dB, it is very easy for an amplifier to be overdriven by large peaks in the program material. While most people won't notice extremely short periods of clipping the meters should be used as a warning that you have run out of power. The McIntosh Power Guard system will not allow the amp to clip, even monentarily, but the warning should be heeded by the user that there is no more power to be had from the amplifier. But, most people ignore the warning lights on the amp just as the do the "idiot lights" on the dashbord of their car.

For the salesperson they are a selling tool. Not only does the amplifier with meters look more business like to many consumers, the amp without meters next to it doesn't seem to be worth as much when it is bare metal. More importantly the meters can be used to show the effectiveness of the Power Guard circuitry on a Mac amp. And it can be used to sell other equipment. I think I gave this example before but for those that have not read it:
In selling two speakers powered by the Mac amplifier the meters were placed on "peak hold". The finally minutes of "The Firebird Suite" were played over both speakers. The first speaker, a TDL transmission line monitor at 84 dB efficiency, required more than the 200 watts the amplifier could produce cleanly, pegging the meters at their post on the right hand side ( / ). The power of the drum whack was impressive in the room. The Klipschorn was played next with the same passage. At 104 dB efficiency the Klipsch required less than 20 watts to move the pantlegs of those in the room. The meters had barely moved ( \ ).
As a selling tool the meters were effective in demonstrating the amount of power required to reproduce music at a "normal" listening level. (This doesn't apply to the maniacs in the room such as John.) For most clients the power they would normally use is often under ten watts. But, to demonstrate the amount of power a large peak requires, the meters could easily peg at over 100 watts. If you are McIntosh and you are building 100 to 600 watt amplifiers there is a good reason to put meters on the front of your amplifier.
The final reason for meters is what I explained to Kegger. If there are no meters, someone has to look to see you own McIntosh. With big, blue meters anyone walking in the room can see you own the best. And as any salesperson knows the best selling tool is often S-E-X! If you don't think the meters have been used to sell the idea that the little lady you invited to your Play-boy (somehow I knew it wouldn't accept that word. Screw it!) Mansion isn't going to see those big meters and assume everything else in your life is big ...





 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
Rantz - YEP - that's the guy! U got it, friend! He's the same guy who said: "girl who fly upside down. . ."

Kegger - hope you know (you surely do) that my comment re bottle-tossing was tongue-in-cheek? (hurts, btw) Don't have whatever a "pink noise" thang is - but I'll give it another shot, and try to see/hear if grill-off is better. What am I listening for - cleaner sound?
Oh, yes - one important point - Mer says she HATES the look of the Polks without grills. Sigh.

John A. - yep again - wurkin at home does have its major disadvantages, such as a too-close refrigerator, having to constantly get up to change CDs, and being naturally curious about what is happening on this forum! May I just say to all of you, BTW, that after "sampling" many forums re the Vivid (shhhh) questions, this forum has the brightest, classiest folk around! Don't hurt yourselves when trying to self-pack-pat.
(grin)
 

Silver Member
Username: Arnold_layne

MadridSpain

Post Number: 200
Registered: Jun-04
VOLVO!! AGAIN??

Academicsss and whimsssiesss?
My father is a self-made man who didn't go beyond 7th grade, my brother works in a pulp-and paper factory. I went to university, but did all maintenance on my Volvo myself. Including carburator preps and installing a 5-shift gearbox. And oversteering cars with efficient handbrake on wintery roads can be real fun, believe me. Gentlemen, stereotypes once again bite the dust. Now, isn't that yet another argument for exploring the world through many channels? ;-)

Changing subject totally: the following not is not Dutch, it was sent to me from Pioneer Belgium. But could anydoggy help me out with the translation?

"Ik heb deze mail al drie maal geforward naar Spanje (ook met de vermelding
dat de upload beschikbaar is in EU),
maar blijkbaar ontvangt de persoon niet terug.

Kan jij soms een antwoord formuleren?"

I catch some words of course, but cannot get the big picture.

Thanks
AL
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
Uh (blush) make that "self-Back-pat." Duh
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
AL - I "think" it says "do not bleach."


(grin?)
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 938
Registered: Aug-04
Kegger

Agreed. I don't know about your neck of the woods but here there's not too many drivers who have brains.

I too calibrate and do the serious listening with speaker grills removed. There is an audible difference. My wife agrees - thank goodness: I hate it when she says I'm hearing things. Anyhow I think the laws of physics would have to confirm our opinions.

Larry,

You could try cleaning the saratoga scales from your grills for a cleaner sound :-)



 

Silver Member
Username: Arnold_layne

MadridSpain

Post Number: 205
Registered: Jun-04
Thanks Larry. It's about my DV-565A, so they're probably trying make me destroy it in laundry machine and buy the new model ;-)
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1708
Registered: Dec-03
Yes larry I took your remark as tounge and cheek.
Just wanted to get the point accross that I try to be
careful around my equipment.

Things to look for with grills off. Two that should be
fairly easy to tell would be imaging and the highend/treble.
________________________________________

Jan also I'm not sure what you meant by
"The final reason for meters is what I explained to Kegger"
Well I have been a praponent of meters or anything else
that can make 1 unit stand out from the others for many many years!

Personally I look for that stuff. That is one of the reasons why
I like the se-40's so much , there beautiful and the reason
why I'm changing all my leds to blue. Also why I like that the
B&K ref 31 has a blue readout and blue led. I'm going to try and
get as much of my equipment to have blue as i can , just like the
way it looks!

Many pieces of equipment sound good but I want my stuff to look good too.

--------------------------------

Larry I heard many women don't like the look of speakers with the grills off!

I guess another reason I'm lucky!

 

Silver Member
Username: Ojophile

Toronto, ON

Post Number: 106
Registered: Jun-04
[Kegger: Not to mention I like to look at the pretty drivers!]

I hope you don't when you're driving in reverse?

(just kidding, dude; the topic about Volvo's and backup signals threw me off kilter for a while)


 

Silver Member
Username: Rh1

Post Number: 325
Registered: Jun-04
J. Vigne...I know you have mentioned you live in the Dallas area, have you been to Ultimate Electronics? My father lives in Mesquite and I was visiting him this weekend, I was quite shocked to see the level of equipment this store carries. It's similar in size to a BestBuy but with much better equipment and listening/viewing areas. Just to name a few things, they have Def Techs supertowers and the Mythos line, also they have KEF Ref 205. If you have not been there, it's worth a trip :-)
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest


I've been to Ultimate, to kill time mostly. Nice store with decent lines, much better than BB or CC. The personell seems to have a high turn over in the store I go to in Cedar Hill. Knowledge isn't their strong suit, but, again, better than the other big boxes. My friends in the industry tell me opening the Dallas area has been a large mistake for Ultimate. Stock numbers are down considerably and sales not doing that well.
Dallas is and has been and will remain a very odd city for many businesses. Lots of audio companies have come and gone through Dallas. Dallas has been the straw that broke many. We are swimming in money in certain areas of the city, but, that doesn't mean the money gets spent in Dallas.
I still prefer the small, personal audio stores that I started selling in. They are, like many small businesses, becoming a thing of the past.



 

Silver Member
Username: Rh1

Post Number: 326
Registered: Jun-04
Yep I agree, smaller stores are much better. Here in Atlanta there aren't that many in the smaller market, unfortunately the larger stores don't carry anything worth listening too really. It was nice to see Ultimate carried the Mythos line and KEF since there aren't any dealers here that carry these. i was suprised to see their line of receivers were Yamaha/Denon and then jumped to the Sunfire Ultimate receiver. Seemed a bit strange considering some of the speaker lines they had were Klipsh and Infinity. Then again they had a dedicated Bose room, go figure.
 

Silver Member
Username: Arnold_layne

MadridSpain

Post Number: 206
Registered: Jun-04
John, just to prove I'm not a fanatic after all: I'll change car this winter, and one of my first choices has a cat silhouette on the whiskers.

Kegger man, what do women over there opine with their "grills" on? ;-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Arnold_layne

MadridSpain

Post Number: 207
Registered: Jun-04
Sorry, couldn't resist...
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1709
Registered: Dec-03
Don RX-1 and Arnold Layne good ones guy's!

I see wer'e getting pretty witty today!


 

Silver Member
Username: Arnold_layne

MadridSpain

Post Number: 213
Registered: Jun-04
Just wait until I had another Budweiser. On sale in the supermarket today. Was it Henry Miller or Mae West who said "I can resist everything but temptations"?
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2342
Registered: Dec-03
Larry and MR,

All my fault with the reverse beeper. What I wrote was not what I meant. MR, thanks for the warning. Being condescending about Volvos is my way of protecting myself. A sort of overload switch. If I had the money, I'd buy a car, not a lifestyle statement. Especially that one.

Jan,

Thank you. I know choose an amp with meters. It will be on my list. You can download the last ten minutes of the Firebird (is that not a car, too?) in surround from http://www.sr.se/multikanal/english/e_arkiv.stm - legally, and for free, and that must be a good way to blow all six speakers and/or cause any dodgy capacitors to bubble like toasted cheese, and probably smell like it, too. I wonder if there is a 5.1 power amp with six meters. That would impress the girls, surely.

Arnold, you might prefer to get it from
http://www.sr.se/multikanal/svenska/arkiv.stm

...there are some very nice surround demos there, however you say it. I play the channel identification disc from time to time just to hear a nice 08 accent. I suspect your message is in Flemish and is something like this "mail contains a virus and has been deleted from the server". I could be wrong on both counts. There will be others here who will know, really.

Larry,

A self-pack pat is my disingenuous reply at check-ins to "Did you pack this suitcase yourself?"

Grills off. Everytime. Sounds better, it stands to reason. But I think it is correct, as Kegger says, it takes the WAF down a bit. Could be compensated by meters. Or they might make it worse.

OK, OK

"girl who fly upside down. . ."......?

Must go now.

The last bit reminds me of the beautiful graffiti reported somewhere, surely you know.

"I like grils"

Someone crossed out "grils" and wrote " girls", instead, giving "I like girls".

Then, underneath, someone wrote

"What's wrong with us grils?"
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2343
Registered: Dec-03
AL,

Oscar Wilde, I think.

Mae West said "Is that a signal level meter on the front, or are you just pleased to see me?"
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
John A. "...will surely have crackup." U asked.
But you couldn't have missed that one going through third grade (or your equivalent) could you? It's that old. . .

Waidda minute guyz - re the backup alarms. Are we talking about the outside alarms at the rear of the car - or are there some cars with INTERNAL alarms, like, on the dashboard. If THAT'S what we're talking about - I'M AGAINST THEM! Whew!

OPEN NOTE TO CLASSICAL 1 - thanks for the e-mail, and yes, I DO know somebody for you to talk with about your "voyage." Good luck! Send thru the picture again, however - it somehow got messed up. Now I AM jealous!!
BTW - your e-mail box is apparently full - I can't get through to you. Try emptying it out and see what happens. Thanks. . .

KEGGER: Thanks for the reply. When Mer came home from teaching today I had the grills (grils?) off and a CD playing, trying to hear different sounds. She took one look and said: "you're not going to LEAVE those off, are you?" The tone had an unmistakeable threat to it - sigh. The grills went back on. Such is "marital bliss." Or is it "martial bliss?" Hmmm. . .

More anon. . .

 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
My Rantz - sorry, ole chap - when I posted a reply re working at home - I should have directed it at you, not John A. - this thread gets so confusing - and I have a devil of a time keeping up. Do y'all have the same problem - or is it just me, in my ole age? Sigh.
BTW - just thinking out loud here - ever since you first hinted that you are an Australian, I have had a secret admiration for you and your countrymen.
My father was an Army doctor - WWII - captured, Bataan Death March, et al. But I remember well in his letters to my mother how he sang the praises of the "Aussies" who were fearsome fighters and wonderful people just to "be with." Have had great respect for you "Aussies" (hope that isn't a derogatory term!) ever since.
I have always wished that I could visit your country - but money is just not there. Anyway, just wanted you to know that from this house - U R one of the "good guys!"

More anon. . .
 

Larry R.
Unregistered guest
Welllllll - I hate to admit it, guyz - but my JVC CD player has a wonderful, bright blue bar on the front of the CD tray. Shines out in the night beautifully, and makes the Scotch seem more, uh, "magical." Hmmm. . . Mer accuses me of buying the player JUST for the blue light. And, after listening to it - I think that the blue light is its greatest asset! JVC probably put ALL of its money into that light - and forgot all about such things as "good" audio! Kegger - BLUE LIGHT RULES! We know it. The world knows it. The universe knows it. Celebrate it! And get a whole bunch of blue LEDs for your equipment.
Heck, Mer and I have blue rope lights all around our outdoor patio - makes the nighttime cocktail our, uh, oar, uh, air, uh, "hour" much smoother and detailed! Yep.

More anon. . .
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
KEGGER: Aha! Mer snuck in behind me (not uncommon for her) whilst I was posting the above message. She insisted that I send you a simple, direct message:

B L U E L I G H T R U L E S !

OK - message delivered. Sigh. LR
 

Silver Member
Username: Arnold_layne

MadridSpain

Post Number: 215
Registered: Jun-04
Thanks John for reminding me about the Swedish DTS downloads. If now ISP continues to provide Kbps for a while I'll finally check'em out. Hmm, it is "wav" files... Have you managed to run through DVD player, or is it just for PC?

BTW: Yesterday I was cooking some sausage and ran into unexpected difficulties. Software's last words in log file were (literally): "Aaargh - to many skipped blocks". So I ended up uttering foul language about "structure copy p.". Consider admitting humans we are wretched specie, after all. ;-)

Hasta pronto
AL
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1716
Registered: Dec-03
Lar agreed, that's a smart women you got there!

GUESS WHAT GUY'S AND DOLLS!!!!!!!!

Well my B&K ref 31 prepro just showed from ups so
I got some work to do.

Here comes 7.1 tube surround!!

HOPEFULLY BY NEXT WEEKEND WHERE ALL HOOKED UP AND DIALED IN!


 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
Kegger - yes, sometimes too schmartt fer her own gud! (grin) She's much more intelligent than I am, and that makes it really difficult to BS her into things! Like "grills off," for instance.

Hey - 6L6s rule nearly as well as blue lights do! I remember the "purple majesty" of my youthful forays into the wunnerful world of Williamson amps - tubes, tubes, tubes! Heck, I think I got "nuked" by them long ago! (grin)
I'm trying very hard to follow your progress toward "tube amp nirvana" and only hope that you keep on with your "blue LED" ideas. I'm a hoplessly "true believer" here! (double grin)

More anon. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Sem

New York USA

Post Number: 287
Registered: Mar-04

quote:

Well my B&K ref 31 prepro just showed from ups so
I got some work to do.

Here comes 7.1 tube surround!!



Well, that settles it, the first Old Dogs gathering is at Kegger's. First round is on me.

Seriously, can't wait to read about it!!



 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 939
Registered: Aug-04
Sem

I'll await the tickets :-)


Kegger

That's it now! Stop - you've more than enough equipment for one man. Oops, I wonder if Mae West said that once (or more) as well :-)


John A

You're confused again: it wasn't the bit about Volvo's I found condescending, it was the reversing lesson. But thanks!

Larry,

Thanks for the kudos on behalf of my fellow countrymen. We - er - younger folk could not hold a candle to those in WWW2. My father-in-law spent years as a POW in Changai and on the Burma Railway. The stories are horrendous yet he possesses not one iota of hatred. He's about the most admirable man I know. And I'm certain your country has more than its share of such men.
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
My Rantz - yes, sir - but yours more so!
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 566
Registered: Dec-03
Fought side by side with Aussies. Fine soldiers, fine men, and great allies. I was honored to serve with them. I will always share a special bond with them. Cheers, MyRantz!
 

Silver Member
Username: Sem

New York USA

Post Number: 288
Registered: Mar-04
Welcome back Rick. You've been missed.
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 942
Registered: Aug-04
Ah, Rick thanks again and glad to see you here. I only sent out a message for the dogs to begin looking for you and you found your own way home.

Wonderful!

I getting called for brekky - cheers
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 567
Registered: Dec-03
Aw Shucks! All this fuss because I took a few days off? I'm flattered.

So what have you flea bitten "Mutts", no, er,"Old Dogs" been up to while I've been off licking my, no, er, how did Larry put it? Sharpening my sword.

So Larry, I"m trying to catch up and just finished your tale at sea. In a word-Bravo! You have a great talent for storytelling, and a writing style that put me right there on the boat with you. I would be honored to have you autograph my copy of your book one day.

Sem-thank you, it's always nice to know that ones missed.

John, Kegger, Ghia, and all the Dogs"-Cheers!

and Jan, have you been a good boy while I've been away? (LOL). I've finished the stands, but more on that later.

Thank you Rantz.............................!
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1718
Registered: Dec-03
Well here's the little beauty with her blue display!

sorry about the bad pic "or the pic at all" but with no flash
the camera doesn't seem to work as good!

Upload
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1719
Registered: Dec-03
Rick very glad to hear from yu!

Didn't want to fuss while you wer'e away, figured you had reasons.
but glad your back nonetheless!

Before you went back to 2 channel what prepro did you have?

stage one I believe?
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 568
Registered: Dec-03
Hi Kegger,

How are you my friend? Very nice pre-pro Keg-Man. Wish I could hear your 7.1 tube system. In answer to your question, I had a Proceed AVP. I still have a 5.1 HT set up. I just sold the high-end gear and went back to my old Marantz SR880.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1721
Registered: Dec-03
going pretty good rick. hope you are too!

ok so you haven't gone completly mad and still have some HT! lol
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 569
Registered: Dec-03
Yes, I still have some HT, and no, I AM completely mad! (LOL)
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 472
Registered: Apr-04
Kegger,

I must be completely mad too since I now have no HT. lol. At least my FF team is 6-1. The boys ain't happy about that.

Good to see you posting again, Rick!
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 473
Registered: Apr-04
Gentlemen,

Just wanted to drop a note of thanks for the thoughtful responses to my Oct 24th, 10:01pm post. I appreciate the responses and the perspective provided.
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 474
Registered: Apr-04
Kegger,

Have fun with the B&K and the 7.1 system. I'm betting you don't wait until the weekend. lol. Is that a full moon I see? Nah, just Kegger floating on cloud nine! hehehe....of course it could still be a full moon, I suppose.
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest


Ciao, Rickee!!! Che bella giornata!!!


An update on the story of Vivid. A dinner with three friends; two who are as close to being audiophiles as I am to be an astronaut (not possible - no pasta in space) and one who listens to music regularly but is not an audiophile. The two who are not audiophiles do not listen to live music, the third listens to live music and has wide ranging tastes. Each chose the music with the only restriction I placed on the choice being nothing really busy. I wanted to keep the music to a few sounds to concentrate on. First two pieces were chosen by the less familiar listeners. Firts two tests play the disc as is and then treat it with Vivid. If they could not hear any change there was no point in continuing. The music chosen by these two was electronic, studio mix pop. They chose the track they were familiar with. Track played twice to set the sound. Nothing said, they didn't know what I was using or doing. Played the same track twice. Third disc was female vocalist with small jazz backing group. I picked a track at random. Played the track twice. Treated it with Pledge, they didn't know what I had used. Played the track twice. Treated it with Vivid. Played the track twice. No placebos used, they heard a treated disc each time it was replaced in the player, but, they never knew what the experiment was, or what I was looking for. The only question I asked each time was, "What did you just hear?". Not scientific, but, if you want that you'll have to buy some Vivid yourself and set up your own test. As when I listened the system was a mid priced Philips CD player, the Mac 6200 and the LS3/5a's. (The speakers are still on the floor.)
We only moved forward with the test when all were confident they were familiar with the track after going back over certain sections several times.


Scoring: The untreated disc sounds better in my system than in theirs. (Natch!) They heard things they hadn't heard before.

First two discs when treated with Vivid; obvious improvement in clarity and the sound of instruments. Electronic sounds that had been somewhat fuzzy were cleaned up and smoothed out, much easier to listen to. More detail with a clearer start and decay to each sound. More separation of instruments. No one thought the sound from first two times through was the same as the third and fourth time through.

Third discs (vocalist and jaz combo) when treated with Pledge an obvious improvement in clarity and detail. More expresion in the voice and instruments. Heard more information they were unaware of until the treatment. When treated with Vivid the improvement was most obvious and had more of all the detail, attack, space, etc., that had been heard with the previous two discs.

Conclusion: Pledge good; Vivid very good.



 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
Jan V. - most interesting report, my friend. Think you did "right" in your experiment - quite similar to what I've been doing - without the Pledge, of course. You say your guests heard differences - were they able to express those differences anywhere near the way you do? In other words - did they use the specific terms that you list, or were they just hearing "better" sound?

Merri has better hearing than I have - and hears more "small" details, and their changes. She has become a HUGE Vivid fan. Even more for DVD movies than for CDs. . .

Rick B. - (blush) thank you for your kind writing remarks. If the danged book ever gets finished, I shall send you a First Edition, autographed copy, fer shore! Welcome back, sir.

Kegger: M O R E B L U E!!! Yeah! Oh, my, it's SO good to see that color! Just plain "yum!" And what a piece of gear, to boot! Wowee - makes my black Onkyo look like a piece of Shi*it, fer shore! guess I'll have to go out and get a job so I can afford stuff like that! I can't let Mer see that picture, for she, too, is a blue light nut, and will surely want more of same.

To all: had occasion to go over to neighbors of my doctor-friend this eve - they wanted some advice on sound, which I tried to give.
Their sound "problem" was easy to spot - stereo/TV in large room with big, untreated windows and tile floors with very few rugs. Too "live" and noisy. I told them to get more rugs and some folding screens, like the ones we have, to cut reflections. That should help somewhat.
Anyway, they have a nice system in their living room - Denon receiver and CD player - and when they put on some CDs I thought the speakers were rather extraordinary - they looked like just another pair of bookshelf speakers - light oak on stands.
Well, when I asked what they were, the woman said "B & W somethings" (they had a local HiFi store bring in the stuff and hook it up - they are typical "Neapolitans" - money, without knowledge.) Anyway - Looked on the back - 602s. Huh? Didn't know anything about them - but thought that they were just grand for classical music.
Any of you know anything about the B & W 602s? The woman said they paid something like $600 for the pair (she didn't care about cost) - and they sounded SO MUCH BETTER than my Polk RTi6s!!! The only B & W speakers I know about cost more than $1,500 a pair, so I guess they must have a "budget" line? Hmm. . .

GHIA: You use B & W speakers, right? Are they the 602s? Can't remember. And your comments on B & W for classical music, please. After Mer gets through with her crowns (sigh) we will certainly look around for a new CD player, then new speakers. Next year. . .

Kegger - in your honor tonight I put on a CD, turned the player's "blue bar" on HIGH, clicked on the blue surround rope lights on the patio, and turned off the rest of the lights. Boffo! GRIN Mer came out of her studio, took a look around, and said: "oooookkaaaaaaaaaaay!" Then we opened the wine. . .
That's the end of the story - we're "old," U know.

More anon. . .


 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2344
Registered: Dec-03
MR,

Probably Dorothy Parker might have said that Kegger has hifi components in places where she didn't know people had places.

I understood the condescension reference. The reversing tips were not aimed at you, but at Volvo drivers. Re Larry and Rick's comments, I agree. And it did not take Aus until 1942 to make up its mind. Mr Blair's "My parents remembered the Blitz...We had one true friend at that time" was just stupidity, and an insult to you guys. I said so in a letter to a newspaper, and got some touching "Thanks" messages from all over the world. Come to Europe and I'll take you to Bayeux.

Rick,

Welcome back. Wonderful.

Kegger,

Now you've lost me, again. What exactly is the B&K pre-pro? Just a link to the model spec would be good.

I personlly don't care for lights. Especially blue. Hifi should be heard and not seen (boring, sanctimonious, yes, yes, but it is true).

AL,

Yes, you just burn the wav files onto a CD-R. The player thinks it is a DVD. Those demo files have some good music (such as Firebird) and some really dreadful gee-whiz surround effects that bear out Jan's general point about "stereo rules". The one I liked was called "Car chase". Swedish Radio actually broadcasts occasionally in DTS, on digital satellite. So I am told; you need a 5.1 receiver. "is it worth it?" Not to judge from those clips, but who knows. In the old old days when the BBC was still pushing back the frontiers, their first, experimental stereo transmissions were one channel on radio, the other on TV. People probably scoffed, then. "Mono rules" survived well into the 70s. The most chilling words ever diplayed on computer screen: Valkommen till Unix.

Ghia,

I think you wrote for many of us in that post.

I think all these things are interconnected; cars; hifi; Iraq. Many good people around the world are deeply suspicious of the US and its motives. Without condoning terrororism, one should try to understand why that is, and what worries them. Bring back Clinton, I say. He did some genuinely good things. Or, at least, tried. A persuasive ambassasor, at the very least. No so, your current guy. P.J. O'Rorke (of the libertarian right) has a new book called "Peace Kills". I must get that. I learned some economics from his enjoyable and learned treatise "Eat the Rich".
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
John A. (sob, sob, sniffle) Oh, sir, how sad for you! What? No blue lights? Well, sir, Kegger and I reach out to you in friendship and sympathy, for you are obviously in a bad way! Perhaps some good Scotch, then lower lights with fine, blue lights on the console - ah, yes, Nirvana! Not boring, sir - puh-leeeezzzz! Sigh.
Blue lights are not necessarily "paired" with stereo - witness our 1,000 blue lights in "ropes" around our patio. Mind-soothing, to the max!
Sir, you must remember "the good old days" huddled around the radio with Edward R. Murrow saying "this is London" - and all of us listening in the glow of those big, beautiful RADIO TUBES!
Yes, John, you obviously need LIGHT THERAPY!
(ouch, dammit, this tongue-in-cheek stuff, U no)

Clinton "zipped up" was very good - and P.J. - ah, now you're talking!

More anon. . .
 

Laarry R
Unregistered guest
GHIA: What, please, is a "FF team?" Fighting Firemen? - huh?

 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2346
Registered: Dec-03
Larry,

"...will surely have crackup."

I finally got it, and am shocked and disappointed in you. Really. What juvenile humour.

For some reason it reminds me of the staged dialogue at the height of the Campaign for Real Ale.

Q. "Why is a pint of Watney's Red Barrel like a couple making out in a canoe?"

No offence. Please nobody leave.

A. "They are both f*****g near water".

A bit of good clean abuse can be healthy from time to time.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2347
Registered: Dec-03
Larry,

You'd have to ask ML about Clinton.

Yes, I liked the comforting glow of the thermionic valve in the old long wave radio. But it was not blue, as I recall.

Yes, P.J. is great. Wonder what hifi he's got, and whether he is into MC.
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
John A. - please, sir - remember, I warned you that the joke was 3rd-grade stuff! Old, old, old, but so is Buddha!

And - I'm trying - but I don't get the Watney's joke at all...

Ahem. . .
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
John A. - correct, sir - as I remember, the tubes (at least in our radio) glowed rather purple. Not red, for sure. But not "true blue," U R right.

P.J. surely has mono, not surround? (grin)
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
Good Grief! It's 1:30 in the morning! No wonder my eyelids are drooping!
G-nite all from Swampville!!!
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1722
Registered: Dec-03
YES MOST TUBES HAVE LTTLE BLUE TINT TO THERE GLOW!

"sorry caps on again"

JOHN: I can't give you a link to the 31 prepro!B&K now only puts the
latest equipment on there site.

The ref 31 prepro is a ref 30 that has been sent to B&K to have the
processor chip and software upgraded to the latest that the
ref 50 uses. so a ref 31 is basically a ref 50 without the balanced
input and output connectors "on the back of the unit at the bottom"


Upload

here is a link to ref 50!

http://www.bkcomp.com/ref50.asp

and here is a link to the ref 31 manual in .pdf form!

http://www.bkcomp.com/pdf/Ref_31_UM.pdf
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest


" Hifi should be heard and not seen"


HiFi should be listened to and the tubes should be seen through the cage. Valve glow, John. Radiant, pure, sweet, soft, golden thermionic valve glow. It comes from behind each speaker as if it were passing the breath of life to each note.



Can your NAD do that?



Oh, I'm sorry, it doesn't even have meters.







The first two listeners not familiar with audio-speak know nothing of decay and attack. They know the sound was more alive and seemed to last longer before it faded out. They know there was more clarity and little details. They know they heard more that they didn't know was there before. One felt the sound was slightly "brighter". They have both spent several thousand on Rotel and B&W this past year.

The third listener is familiar with audio and live music and is very familiar with my system. She knows how to describe the sound both in musical terms and in HiFi terms. But she is not interested in audio other than she appreciates the way my system sounds and can tell a good system from an OK system. She is a frequent listener when I have something new. She has been listening to the 4960 with me.



 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest



My bet is P.J. has a Tivoli Table Radio (mono).



















Wowsers, Batman! There sure are alot of connectors to put shorting plugs in when you're not using them. 108 by my count not including the ground and IEC.






















YEP!




P.J. has a table radio.






 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1723
Registered: Dec-03
Well I think we may be in business with the prepro!

clean,crisp,detailed and excelent low level information retreval!

rock solid image and very quiet, no extra noise added at all.

seems like it will make a very good combo with the charicteristics
of the tube amps.

Just have it hooked up in 2 channel right now and it sounds much much
better then the hk525 reciever did as a preamp.
much more detail and a lot cleaner!

Sounds different then the tube preamp and at this point I believe
I like the B&K better. More detail,cleaner and a better handle on the
center image. Just seams to have better control over the music.

This is head and shoulders above the 2 other solid state preamps
I have and at this point I believe better then the tube preamp I've
been using which was better then the other tube preamps I have.

So all in all very impressed!
Hopefully it stays that way!
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1724
Registered: Dec-03
For john or anyone else who might not know.

PRePro = preamp / processor / decoder

It's basically a 7.1 reciever with no amps.

This is what I needed to do 7.1 surround to use it as a preamp
and a surround sound processor/decoder.

Then I hook all my tube amps to it's 7 preamp outs.

I paid $500 for the hk reciever "great deal" and it should be sold
by next weekend for $450.

so bacicaly the prepro cost me $500 ($2500 retail with the upgrades)
 

Silver Member
Username: Insearchofbass

Post Number: 964
Registered: Jun-04
I just wanted to say you guys and gals have gotten me to think about whats important in hearing your music. I have been a fan of home audio and car audio for years (I love music) but as of now i realize it's not just how loud or how bright your speakers are but how real the music sounds. I plan on doing an upgrade to my home theater in the future and these qualities will take precedent over power or loudness. After all loud isnt good for our ears anyway and our ears are a gift. We should treat them with care to enjoy the music we love and the many other things in this world that we love to hear.
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 475
Registered: Apr-04
JohnA,

You wrote: Many good people around the world are deeply suspicious of the US and its motives.

It is no secret the US is a country divided and polarized, politically. According to a recent study, the vast majority of half of the divide believes the world approves of the US, the President, and our actions. In the days, weeks and months after 9/11, the World was with US. Unfortunately, a pre-9/11 agenda against Iraq was pursued and that goodwill has been mostly lost.

The study is in a PDF format too large to attach. If anyone is interested in it, let me know and I can send via email.

Without condoning terrororism, one should try to understand why that is, and what worries them.

Attempting to do this in America will get you labeled as "unpatriotic". There is no room for discourse on this. Either you are with us or you are against us. Period. There are few who would argue the US deserved the Sept 11th attacks but some would like to understand what motivates those who hate us. A couple of years ago, I read a book written in 1981 in which the author predicted that the "have nots" of the world would resort to terror against the "haves" of the US. It was chilling to read that as the 9/11 attacks had taken place just a few months before my reading. I remember reading the paragraph over and over again and double-checking the publish date of the book, etc. It was incredibly prescient.

None of this is to say the US "deserves" the attacks. But, we cannot keep living our grand lives while still sticking our heads in the sand about how the vast majority of the world lives.

Sorry, I will get off my soapbox soon.
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 477
Registered: Apr-04
Sean,

Welcome to the old dogs thread! Your comments are right on target about hearing music and protecting your hearing.
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 478
Registered: Apr-04
LR,

My B&W are the CDM1 NT model which were the predecessors to the current 705 model. There is a 600 series line that is a lower cost entry point to B&W. Here's a link to that product line: B&W 600 Series

I suspect the B&W 600 would be a noticeable improvement over the Polk speakers. However, I have heard the 602 vs 705 and there is a noticeable difference there too. If you can save up for the 705, you won't end up with regrets down the road. That's a lesson learned for me recently in regards to the NAD vs Mac experience. And, don't forget to look in the used marketplace! You might be able to get the 705 for only a little more than you'd pay for 600 series new.

FF team is fantasy football. In my league, I'm the only girl with a team and I'm in first place....at least for now.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2348
Registered: Dec-03
Kegger,

Thanks. It looks great.

Jan,

Yes, getting a musician to listen to your system is always interesting, even if (s)he neither knows nor cares about hifi. Often they're impressed and want one, but are saving their money for a better instrument.

"Radiant, pure, sweet, soft, golden thermionic valve glow. It comes from behind each speaker as if it were passing the breath of life to each note. "

That's poetry, man.

"Can your NAD do that? "

I am beginning to get the stereo bug myself. I played the Liszt Hungarian Rhapsodies Mercury Living Presence CD on my "miminal" system. There is something magical there, and not just the hammered dulcimer, cembalum or whatever it is. My minimal system has no pre-amp at all. The stereo power amp (Sony; 1991; big strong, ugly) has a gain control. Funnily enough, I find perfect, realistic listening levels with the gain set at 12 o'clock, 0 dB. This means I could have a system with no controls at all, not even volume. Cool, eh?

P.J having a Tivoli radio is an extra recommendation of both.

sean,

Welcome! And thanks for that comment. Opinion on active subs, as on center speakers, is divided here, but I think your username is a bit retro, if you do not mind my saying so... A good two-driver speaker does not create as many insoluble phasing problems as others. Look at Jan with his LS3/5a and Rick with his Spendors. If you ask them would they trade the detail and sound-stage for deeper bass, I think I know the answer. I still think phasing is the missing ingredient, for most people, on most otherwise OK systems. That means get good speakers, first, and work back, giving them an amp they deserve, and then a source that does likewise.

If I audition any audio gear I am going to take Mercury Living Presence CDs along. Apart from having unequalled sound quality, I think I will find out something about the dealer as well as the hardware.

Larry,

I think I can explain the Watney's part by comparing it to warm Bud Lite on tap with plenty of gas (real ale drinkers have zero tolerance for gas). For the canoe part, you will have to use your imagination....
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2349
Registered: Dec-03
Ghia,

Sorry, I missed you post.

I agree with all your write. But let me say..

Attempting to do this in America will get you labeled as "unpatriotic". There is no room for discourse on this. Either you are with us or you are against us. Period.

That, in my opinion, is the problem. Rick, for example, is a nice and civilized man, but if we, like him, put "country first" then it does not take much to imagine that we would do the same if it happened that we'd been born somewhere else. Going out to fight people who are only doing what we do is exactly what gets us on all this mess.

Personally, I am with MR, and think the humanitarian case alone was enough for US, UK and their allies (not least Aus) going in there and getting rid of that despicable butcher. The failure of the UN to act was tragic, but that's their problem, not the poor blo*dy Kurds. However, if we'd done something about Riwanda, too, there would be more of a case for occupying the moral high ground. Clinton, to his eternal credit, said not acting there was one of his chief regrets, as president, as I recall.

I am going to get very serious, and quite heavy. After, I will return to hfi, and Watney's jokes. And, if we get into recordings of Britten's War Requiem, that will be fine.

Please ask your leaders to go look at the names on their local war memorials, and count them if they can count that far. People like MR and I can even just cruise to http://www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/search.aspx and enter names just like our own under "Search..."

Or, better, get GWB and JK to go in person to Flanders, Ypres, the Somme Valley, or Bayeaux. With their eyes open.

Then send them this.

Dulce et Decorum Est by Wilfred Owen (1893 - 1918).

...or any of dozens like it.
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 479
Registered: Apr-04
JohnA,

Dulce et Decorum Est by Wilfred Owen (1893 - 1918)

Thank you for that. I had not seen it before. It's very powerful.

 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 571
Registered: Dec-03
Ghia,

Thank you for the welcome back. I too, enjoyed your post. I sometimes think how silly it is to get all worked up over some silly tweak, when there are more important issues in the world to attend to. Ask me about how I spent the money I had put aside for my last serious audio upgrade. I think you will enjoy the story.
Jan,
"It comes from behind each speaker as if it were passing the breath of life to each note". Very nice, Jan. I have to agree with John. It's either poetry OR you have been sniffing the paint fumes again. On to the speaker stands. If you recall, I cut them down to 10" tall, and made new maple top plates. The Mapleshade cones came, and put a set of 3 under each stand, and one under the front of the speaker for tilt back. The clarity and detail was as if pulling a blanket off the speakers. This is definitely the way to go for the Spendors. I urge all the "Dogs" with bookshelf speakers to get them off tall stands, and on or close to the floor. Experiment as to placement, and it will yield good sonic results. I will send a picture of the stand, if I can borrow a digital camera. I'm an old Nikon 35mm slr man, if you know what I mean.

Cheers!
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2350
Registered: Dec-03
Ghia,

This points seriously off topic, but I am still puzzled at the connection, in the US collective consciousness, which you also seem to make, between 9/11 and Iraq. Saddam saw his chance to recruit anti-American sympathy with his sick post-9/11 pronouncement, but that is about that. I am sure politicians everywhere recognised one of their kind at work, and didn't believe a word of it. bin Laden would never have set foot in Iraq, for fear of his life. Afghanistan, yes. Iraq, no way.

Rick,

Apologies for mentioning you in my foray into matters beyond my experience. I must return to base.

The question of the moment. Spendor covers off, or on?
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
Pick-up sticks. (yawn)

Jan V. - thanks for the further comments on your listening test. I'm glad I sent you the stuff, and that you're making good use of it! BTW - don't forget to post your continued testing of the 4960!

Kegger - thanks for the pre/pro explanation. I did not know about it, and as I don't get as "serious" as you do with equipment, well, without your comment I'd still be in the dark. wait - wait - not totally - remember my blue lights! (grin)

John A. - OK - I'm thinking "canoes and bad beer" if you say so, sir! But seriously - thanks for the Dulce et Decorum Est. I've bookmarked it for further reading. Actually brought tears to these old eyes!

Ghia - yes, thanks - I'd simply forgotten what B & Ws you had. Memory is not my strong suit!!! GRIN
Yes, I think it would be better to save up for the 705s - knowing (or hoping) that they'll be the last speakers I have. I just like the "British" sound so much - for classical, especially. The B & Ws and Paradigms are the speakers I've heard that come closest to "ideal." I bought the Polks in a moment of weakness, and lack of funds - and, like the old saying: "marry in haste - repent at leisure," well, you understand. Sigh.
Fantasy Football - that's a new one on the ole scribe - but sounds like fun if you are "into" sports. Which I'm not. Have the World SEries started yet? (double grin)

Sean - yes, welcome to the Old Dogs thread. You'll find a whole rainbow of comments here, from serious to silly - and a bunch of people whom I have learned to both love and respect. From Australia to Europe - from Dallas to Swampville (OK, Naples, Florida)- we "chat" by electronic voice-boxes. I have learned much since I joined this fractious fraternity of fun folks, though sometimes I'm too sensitive and go off in a huff for no logical reason. NOTE: The "Huff" replaced the old Jaguars after they fell apart.
GRIN
If you don't understand some of our conversation, just scroll back to find topic-starters, such as the recent back-and-forth on the CD product "Vivid." It has created quite a bit of discussion.

To all - I've got to get more sleep! (yawn)

Today's project - order the Rattle/Mahler that both John A. and Ghia C have raved (not ranted) about. Amazon, here I come!

More anon. . .
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
John A. - can't speak for Fendors - but Mer says "covers ON" with the Polks. Sigh.
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
John A. - (hahahahaha) Wow - I've GOT to get more sleep - meant "Spendors," not "Fendors" of course. Maybe a touch-typing course would help?
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2351
Registered: Dec-03
Jan,

Trying to catch up; "companies such as Sugden are similar but I have no experience with their equipment. Rega and Spendor are close to the same approach. Apparently Musical Fidelity is building that sort of reputation. "

Yes, I think Sugden has the same sort of following as McIntosh. Musical Fidelity is a less well-known name for me, but its gets huge praise in the serious mags.
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 573
Registered: Dec-03
John,

The Spendors are the only speakers I have ever listened to that sound the same dressed or undressed. I quess the BBC and the design engineers really did their homework.
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
John A. - after your "canoe" joke, I thought I'd post this - from a friend in London.

A little old man shuffled slowly into an ice cream parlor and pulled himself slowly, painfully, up onto a stool. After catching his breath he ordered a banana split.
The waitress asked kindly, "Crushed nuts?"
"No," he replied, "arthritis."

Ball's in your court, sir.

More anon. . .
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest




John and Larry - I've had eneough of this from you two. For the next minute I want both of you to not think of canoes and bad beer.






"I'm an old Nikon 35mm slr man"


I rather suspected that, Rick; I prefer Canon. At least we agree on Mac. How's your unit doing?







http://www.sugdenaudio.com/


You've got to apprecaite any audio company that, after 25 years of making the exact same model finally revises it to the "A" version. I would really love to hear their product.






The "Huff" :


As a side note, Huffy bicycles is filing bankruptcy after the better part of the last century as one of the most successful bicycle manufacturers in the US. When I was young I owned a J.C.Higgins from Sears and my best frien owned a Huffy. His was quite sleek while mine was a solid piece of engineering. We would race against each other every school day to see who would be the first home from S.S. Peter and Paul. There are lots of adventures tied up in the memories of J.C.Higgins and Huffy. Another piece of Americana fading away against the Chinese made imports.









Kegger - You're listening to classical music now? What are you finding that you like? Do you have the CD or SACD of the Liszt? Have you tried the Living Stereos series yet?

You're right about how much you will find out about the dealer when you ask to play the Mercury recordings on their system.








Sean - Welcome. If you are following along, get your file folder ready. This thread is going to fill several folders and will have you jumping around like a campaign spin doctor putting out fires.






How are we doing with the canoes and bad beer, guys?












"Oh Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to blo*dy shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; ...help us to turn them out roofless with their little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land.... We ask it, in the sprit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love."

- Mark Twain, after viewing a pre-emptive war in the Philippines a century ago. Cited in the March 30, 2003, New York Times magazine.























 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 480
Registered: Apr-04
JohnA:

You wrote: This points seriously off topic, but I am still puzzled at the connection, in the US collective consciousness, which you also seem to make, between 9/11 and Iraq.

That perception is there because our government officials have propagated it as a point of fact for the past 3 years. If I weren't at work right now I could do some research and provide quotes to support this contention. Personally, I have never believed there was a connection and, in fact, opposed the war in Iraq (I was one of several hundred thousand who marched in D.C. in January 2003) because I didn't see the connection there - unlike the definite al Quaida/Afghanistan link (an attack I did support.) And while you and MR make good points about the "humanitarian case" for removing Saddam, that was never listed as a reason for the invasion. This was a "preemptive" war - the kind of war in which the US historically did not engage - and I opposed it for that reason.

It's a complex world, isn't it?
 

Silver Member
Username: Rick_b

New York USA

Post Number: 574
Registered: Dec-03
Jan,

Canon or Nikon makes no difference, both fine cameras. The point is that once again, "How old we feel". Just a couple of anologue "dogs" caught up in a digital world.

The 6100 sounds divine. I would go out and get some Mac tubes, but find it hard to believe anything could sound THAT much better. I have this simple stereo system so dialed in right now I'm afraid to change a thing. I know exactly how Ghia feels. If I ever wanted to go full blown HT again, it would have to be all Mac. I'm going to try the Pledge soon. I'll post my findings. Cheers!
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
Jan V. - not a mention from me of any of "those" words - nope - not about men ordering banana splits, either - no, sireeee! No more. Never.
(at least until John A. gets on his Huffy and fires back?)

More anon (if Jan lets me). . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 481
Registered: Apr-04
LR,

LOL! I'm reading your 11:24a, post while on the phone with a customer and had to put the phone on mute so he didn't hear me laughing. That's a good one! I don't care what anyone else says, those Brits have a wicked sense of humor!
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