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Archive through October 20, 2004

 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest


"That's why my wife and I use the Vivid"
Larry? Just what am I supposed to do with this Vivid you're sending me? I thought I was supposed to put it on CD's.



There seems to be no argument as to whether mc is good for you IF you are happy with the sound mc produces. As Kegger has stated in his preference for mc, if it sounds good to him that is all that matters to him. I don't remember anyone raising serious objections to that idea. If that was all we had to agree upon then this thread could have logically stopped about six months ago.
But that doesn't address the issue of is mc capable of more; or, are we hearing the full extent of what mc can achieve.
The small group of audiophiles that were willing to pay for the equipment and the recordings that gave better sound in the days of direct to disc LP's have always been a thorn in the side of the record companies. That small group wanted something better than what the record companies cared to turn out. When others heard those better recordings they began to wonder why the record companies turned out such drivel. But there were never enough malcontents to make a sizable force against the desires of the record companies. The monetary reasons record companies didn't make better sounding recordings outweighed what they could get by with making. That is where I see mc now. Why make a recording that captures the me/there/them/here sound when a DSOTM will sell more copies?
It is too late tonight to make sense of this, more later. Maybe John will pick up on this and raise a few cockles before I get back.



 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1648
Registered: Dec-03
jan:

"There seems to be no argument as to whether mc is good for you IF you are happy with the sound mc produces. As Kegger has stated in his preference for mc, if it sounds good to him that is all that matters to him. I don't remember anyone raising serious objections to that idea. If that was all we had to agree upon then this thread could have logically stopped about six months ago."


agreed and i also want to see multichannel get better.
maybe more channels!

the point that i keep trying to make is when people say that "multi
channel is not worth it because it does nothing for "me""!

then I point out how many people like the format and appreciate what it is.

I personally have seen multichannel grow and improve in the last
3 years more then it has for the last 50. so i feel it's on the
right track. and will only improve, but Right now think it's pretty dam good!

FOR ME!

so your probably right this debate can stop because there realy is
no longer a need!

we all know where that state of multichannel is and what each other
think about it.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1649
Registered: Dec-03
keep hammering that someone doesn't like multicahannel or it's not done right.

then the others that say they like it and have no
problems with center
channels or rear speakers, your right gets us nowhere!

so what should we do now?
keep stating our oppinions over and over?
keep telling each other i like it or i don't?

you got me!


any suggestions?
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2301
Registered: Dec-03
Jan wrote Maybe John will pick up on this and raise a few cockles before I get back.

Just to say I agree. The claims made by sections of the industry have often been absurd. Now, some of the claims made for multichannel are absurd, and we know we are being offered snake-oil.

The bottom line in all this, in my opinion, is this, whether we a discussing Vivid or multichannel, or Iraq.

"Whom can we trust?" Ourselves. Especially not advertisers, nor politicians - everything they say is for a reason, often hidden, and we know they can and do lie if they think they can get away with it. When they do, it is sometime amusing to see how they have hidden their tracks, sometimes tragic.

"How can we know whether something is snake-oil, or if it really will work?" By trying it, thinking about it, making sure things are as they seem, and we are not fooling ourselves. There is a queue of people asking us to do that, from disc enhancements ("we know they alter the molecular structure etc") to Middle-East enhancements ("we have seen overwhelming evidence for WMDs, poised, ready to strike in 45 minutes").

Lary writes "Hope you understand that difference, and respect my more "casual" approach to life and its aspects regarding Stereo/HiFi/Audiophilia."

Of course, Larry. It sounds like you've earned it. But that may go for a lot of people who still can't afford it. Write some more on music, please. I loved the Santa Fe stories from some months ago.

But then, Ojo writes (and I agree with him on pretty well everything as far as I can see) What you hear is just as valid as what the next person does.

And my reply is a question.

What, then, do we do when the next person says that what he hears is not what we hear?

Is he lying? Is he mistaken? Are we lying? Are we mistaken? Are we all really talking about the same thing?

"Yes, we are all entitled to our point of view" is not good enough if we want to know how things really are. And action depends on that, whether it is spending $45 on some vivid or invading Iraq.

I'll tell you who I do NOT trust. People who make claims and then try to hide the details and the evidence, and will not allow questions. They have something to hide. Simple as that.

Also, a man who hath not music in his soul....

So let's call it truce, if you like, and then give the only truthful reply to questions on vivid and multichannel: "I don't know". That's an honourable position. It is all we can say on most things.

But I still have this feeling it is more interesting, and fun, to try to find out. Probably safer, too, in the long run. Not to mention cheaper.

Cheers. I cannot contribute much on wines, Wales is not famous for its vineyards, though the Romans clearly has some there (see "global warming").

But keep posting, friends. I promise to turn down the self-importance, and crack a few jokes. As Jan points out, Asimo, for one, will probably not be amused, and report me to admin.
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 902
Registered: Aug-04
Yes I have a suggestion Kegger. Lets just give it up. It doesn't matter a hoot what we say. We may as well keep flappin our lips just to make wind. For example. I made the comment that I didn't think I heard these "ghosts" unless they were sounds necessary for effects for when effects were the point. But Jan just come back with:

"Why make a recording that captures the me/there/them/here sound when a DSOTM will sell more copies?"

So to Jan:

THEY DO - or close as the engineers capabilites as far as I'm concerned because I've only heard about two dozen out of about four thousand or more recordings. So it's quite conceivable there are hundreds upon hundreds that will fit your requirements - it's JUST something that's not all that important to people like Kegger and myself to want to evaluate for others who wish to maintain an opposition to MC and keep ignoring anything anyone states in response to their damn continuing silly us/them, we/there, you/here, I'm/fed-up, this is way it should be done crap.

If you ever looked at the catalogues, you'd see that the majority of available recordings would reflect on the tastes of people like John, Asimo, Class 1, Larry R, and yourself etc. The effect laden recordings like DSOTM are very few. So please get off it for Pete's sake!

So Kegger, enjoy the music for what it is to you and I'll be doing the same. In fact much more of that and less of this.


Cheers



 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2302
Registered: Dec-03
MR,

Great. I can see the strong appeal of DSOTM to "anything goes"; there wasn't an anywhere to be. Nothing wrong with that, of course. From the songs, I imagine PF were not exactly the most laid-back bunch of guys, themselves, at that time. That's one of the reasons I like it. Ummagumma, too, is tremendous. Careful with that axe, Eugene.

Jan,

Knowing your view on censorship and so on, this is a tough request.

As co-partner-in-crime in instigating this fun thread, which I did warn you would "run and run", I now appeal to you to join with me in declaring one subject completely unsuitable, and off-topic.

This subject is the effectiveness of vivid in the new application which you and Larry have discovered. If I were you, I would send these findings to vivid dot com, instead; I am sure they will be most interested.
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 903
Registered: Aug-04
And perish the thought that some of the record companies make a little money - even if it takes a few recordings like DSOTM to get people to understand what MC is capable of. OOOOOOOOOOhhh it's a big conspiracy. The thing is that most are pushing these formats in the name of putting the listeners closer to the performers or performance - just like you want see?. It's not an idea to rip off the consumer - they are not turning big profits from it yet, but it is making the bigger RC companies sit up and take notice (no not necessarilly Catholic companies). I for one hope they all make a massive fortune eventually.

That's it!




So long!






Bye Bye!








No more . . . . . . sailin'!

 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 904
Registered: Aug-04
Sorry John,

We crossed over posting - the target was J.V.



 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
Thoughts whilst tending sheep (instead of counting them) As a light-to-almost-non sleeper, I oft ponder the wonders of this forum and its give-and-take in the dark hours.
Jan - how dare you make lurid suggestions as to what my wife and I REALLY do with Vivid! It's none of your danged business, guy! I mean, reeaalllyyyy! You put Vivid where you want, and we'll put it (grin) where we want, OK? (double grin) But yes, it is DESIGNED to go on CDs!!!
Then I began to wonder - are there more uses for Vivid than meets the eye? Eh? Hmmm. . .
No - if Vivid makes things more transparent. . .fahgedaboudit!!!!!
John A. - too bad that you are not in a cultural position to claim some vintage or label as being "part of my history." Here's Jan, with Italian blood oozing chianti, and My Rantz, whose blood is fortified with shiraz - and me, with family history of chardonnay and bordeaux. Pity the soul whose lineage does not bear witness to the Noble Grape! Sigh. Poor John A. . . . . .
I love wine, but not beer. Kegger loves beer, but maybe not wine so much. Aha! Fight brewing here! (pun intended) The same with 2-ch and multi-ch sound. I read and read and read until my head spins, but I feel that few opinions have been or are being changed. Am I right in this view?
I'd think the over-used phrase: "to each his/her own" more than applies here.
OK - N O M O R E about Vivid from me until Jan gets his "Care package" and tries out the stuff for himself - Jan, you should get it by Thursday or Friday.
BTW - in reviewing this forum, whatever happened to Aninymuss? I read that he was going to "disappear off the radar," and I guess he meant it. Oh, well. . . I was hoping to hear more about the C4-C5 controversy. As a sometimes-editor of articles I find it helpful to know about such esoteric things. So step in here, Rick, and clear this up? IS there C5? Or not.
Classical 1, I hope to join you soon in an informal CD-enhancer test. I hope that your Siesta Key home was untouched by the hurricanes. We have friends in Sarasota, and their house suffered minor damage, though they lost a couple of trees and their backyard "garden shed."
Merri and I love Siesta Key - and have often driven out there on days when we "stay over" for the opera. Are you a fan, by the way? Always looking for fellow travelers, music-wise.
We are hoping to make this year's "adventure" a trip to London - but now Mer has two teeth that need crowns, and at $950 apiece, they rather drastically cut into our vacation "hope-chest." Sigh. Is that what they really mean when they refer to growing older as the "golden" years? Hmmm. . .gold crowns, indeed!
Have any of you seen/heard the DVD-video of Mozart's Requiem? The one with Solti, et al. Reading some ravey comments. . .
Which one of you was in San Francisco for the Mahler II performance/recording? Envy you that. Looking forward to the SACD!
Too bad about SACDude - he must live in Chicago's "Hyde Park" area - down by the University of Chicago. A beautiful old part of town, but heavy with crime, as it is nearly surrounded by ghetto-land. If you are reading this, SACDude, I wish you good luck, and hope you find happiness in Colorado. Merri and I have friends in the 'burbs there. Just don't move into the Northeast part of town - you'll find same-oh problems to what you now have.
Well, Mer is just getting up to ready herself for teaching a sculpture class - so I'm away for now. It is "ciao," isn't it, Jan?
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 440
Registered: Apr-04
AL,

I listened to DSOTM in hi-res stereo and the results....withheld as it appears some are weary of the debate.

In regards to the questions about Hotel California, I will test that today. When I first played HC in stereo, I did so with only the player set to stereo and it seemed to be missing something. But, when I started HC with the video playing, I found a selection for a stereo track in the menu. When it was selected in that manner, the sound was much fuller. In your tests, did you select the stereo track from the DVD-A menu?
Hopefully, that's not an insulting question. I only ask it because it took me a couple of months to figure out I could select that from the menu. I'm still getting used to the idea of looking at a TV screen when I put on a music disc. lol.

JohnA,

I ordered both Porgy & Bess and Rattle/Mahler #5 DVD's. Instead of shopping locally, I remembered I had a gift card to Barnes & Noble so I used it to order online (the local store doesn't stock music just books.)

Kegger,

I'm 8 points behind going into tonight's MNF. Should I start Isaac Bruce or Michael Clayton at WR? Bruce has advantage of home game but going against tough pass defense (and being secondary target after Holt). Clayton has advantage of soft pass defense (and being primary target) but playing on road in STL dome. If I win, my team will be 5-1 and retain sole possession of first place (much to chagrin of the guys in the league.) Losing, will drop me into a tie for first.

LarryR,

Welcome back!

MR and Kegger,

From my perspective, it seems Jan is stating his stereo preference without raising absolutes about the validity of MC. To my knowledge, he has never told anyone they are "wrong" about MC but he does offer up compelling questions - which few seem to want to hear let alone answer. To me, these questions are just part of the debate and are not an indictment or judgement of anyone who prefers MC. But, it seems to be received that way when comments such as, " keep ignoring anything anyone states in response to their damn continuing silly us/them, we/there, you/here, I'm/fed-up, this is way it should be done crap" are made.

Hopefully, this will come across in the spirit it is intended. It's not an attack on anyone. Just an observation that both sides have an opinion and it is not necessary to dismiss one side by accusing them of ignoring your viewpoints. Obviously, there's no right or wrong position but there can be lively debate. Without it, this thread will have run its course.

Have a good day, everyone!
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
Ghia - thanks for the welcome - I need all the kudos I can get these days! Retirement is not as easy as one might imagine.
I've GOT to ask a couple of questions here. First, do you really experience that much of a difference with the McIntosh amps? I ask because my doctor-friend has not one, but two listening/viewing areas - and in the second (a closed room, unlike the living room) he has a setup with McIntosh amps. He prefers that I keep "hands off" when he's not here - so I do. (mostly) If the Macs are that much better, I look forward to his return, and our forays into listening/viewing in his "special room."
Second - you have mentioned several times about your speaker-changing. Have you decided that one brand does better than the other - main speakers I'm talking about, not surround. I'm VERY partial to B & W and Kef - so I admit a bias, though I can't afford the B & W 705s I really, really want!
Third - with the Macs, I assume (maybe I didn't read as much as I should have) that you listen in 2-channel with them? I don't know much about them, other than to bow down to them (!) My doctor-friend has three of them in his "special" room - powering various sets of speakers - one amp for mains - second for mid-room - third for back-wall surrounds. He has 12 built-in speakers in the room - and it is simply overpowering when he puts on multi-channel movies such as "Master and Commander."
As I recall, you have a very "classy" home, and from what you have posted, the combination of sound and sight must be very calming (alternately exciting?) and enjoyable.
As to my take on the multi vs. 2-ch - well, I usually listen to music in 2-ch, and watch movies in surround. Only my choice, and certainly not for everyone. My wife, Merri, agrees, and says she finds the surround music "awkward." Never felt that way myself - just like the ambiance of good ole 2-channel.
Of course, I have barely-acceptable Polk RTi6 speakers - upper mid-range is rather harsh and congested, but until I can afford the B & Ws, I struggle along.
Hope all is well with you "working person." Just remember, age creeps up, and you'll be retired before you know it. Save, save, save, save - repeat after me now. (GRIN)
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1651
Registered: Dec-03
ghia I would have to start bruce!

I'm down by 2 going into tonight and I've got holt.

also ghia when I stated:

"keep hammering that someone doesn't like multicahannel or it's not done right.

then the others that say they like it and have no
problems with center
channels or rear speakers, your right gets us nowhere!

so what should we do now?
keep stating our oppinions over and over?
keep telling each other i like it or i don't?

you got me!

any suggestions?

so your probably right this debate can stop because there realy is
no longer a need!

we all know where the state of multichannel is and what each other
think about it."

was not an attack on jan but actually more of a your right.

this going back and fourth as we've done now for "how many months"

hasn't gotten us anywhere, so do we really need to continue? is valid!

personally I see no point. we either move on or well hate to say it
but let the thread fizzle.

I don't think we need to let the thread fizzle but we need new topics.

what those might be I don't know at this point.

but rehashing something that's been so hashed is pointless
and weary!

If you can't understand enough about 2 channel versus m.c by
now you probably never will.
"not meaning you but anyone"

have you tried the mac as an amp in your surround setup yet?
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 442
Registered: Apr-04
Kegger,

All good points. In fact, after rereading some of your and MR's previous posts, it appears my statement in the 8:48a post was in error: ....which few seem to want to hear let alone answer. My apologies for that.
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 443
Registered: Apr-04
LR,

I'm working on a response to your questions but need to run a few errands. Will have something for you later today.
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 444
Registered: Apr-04
Kegger,

How is your all tube surround coming along?

No, I have not tried the Mac in the surround yet. I have vacation time this week (being spent at home) so I may try it out. I'm concerned that the setup may "color" the output. The one thing I know for certain is I've got to get all this equipment off my living room floor and soon! lol
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest


I, for one, would be interested in Ghia's report on DSOTM. I don't think this thread has to die but just move on. We had some input from several people (other than the regulars) that wanted to discuss the mc/2 debate but then never gave any input. If those folks are out there please give a response to the issue. New ideas may bring forth new information. As is I can only assume that my dinner suggestions finally made all others move on to which subwoofer cable is the best when I have the volume set at 9 on my reciever; and what happens if I turn it to 10? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Hey, I've waited 10 minutes and nobody's answered!!!

I don't know about you guys but I would rather rehash suasage before I got into that.

I didn't see any answers to my question about speaker placement that told me what you are doing to accomodate the different set ups that are suggested by the various formats and manufacturers. How do you all feel about the variablity of the expectations? Were you aware of them? Do you just ignore the suggestions? Or don't you own any Telarc or Chesky discs? Am I incorrect that the suggested set up for SACD and DVD-A is different that the set up for DD or DTS, especially when running a 6.1 or 7.1 system?

Any suggestioms would be appreciated.




 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1652
Registered: Dec-03
ghia I'm cool with your responses and it let me clarify what I meant.

________________________________________
tube surround:

I'm still wotking on the last amp.
I just bought a b&k ref. 30 prepro. they were $2000 when new
and this one has the ref 31 upgrades which has to be sent to b&k for
a $500 charge. intails new processor and updated software.
so it would cost about $2500, I got it from audiogon for $955 shipped.
should be here by friday. If I get my other amp done
I'll have to try and get the system up over the weekend.
the other cool thing about the ref 31 upgrade is the blue readout, so
it matches all my amp lights I'm changing to blue.
---------------------------------------------------
I'm very interested in your impressions of the mac in the surround.
I think you will be pleasently surprised.
and yes get that stuff off the floor! lol
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

I, for one, would be interested in Ghia's report on DSOTM. I don't think this thread has to die but just move on. We had some input from several people (other than the regulars) that wanted to discuss the mc/2 debate but then never gave any input. If those folks are out there please give a response to the issue. New ideas may bring forth new information. As is I can only assume that my dinner suggestions finally made all others move on to which subwoofer cable is the best when I have the volume set at 9 on my reciever; and what happens if I turn it to 10? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Hey, I've waited 10 minutes and nobody's answered!!!

I don't know about you guys but I would rather rehash suasage before I got into that.

I didn't see any answers to my question about speaker placement that told me what you are doing to accomodate the different set ups that are suggested by the various formats and manufacturers. How do you all feel about the variablity of the expectations? Were you aware of them? Do you just ignore the suggestions? Or don't you own any Telarc or Chesky discs? Am I incorrect that the suggested set up for SACD and DVD-A is different that the set up for DD or DTS, especially when running a 6.1 or 7.1 system?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.




 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest



Kegger - You messed with my brilliance once again!



 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1653
Registered: Dec-03
jan:

"I didn't see any answers to my question about speaker placement that told me what you are doing to accomodate the different set ups that are suggested by the various formats and manufacturers. How do you all feel about the variablity of the expectations? Were you aware of them? Do you just ignore the suggestions? Or don't you own any Telarc or Chesky discs? Am I incorrect that the suggested set up for SACD and DVD-A is different that the set up for DD or DTS, especially when running a 6.1 or 7.1 system? "

I've stated before what my placemeant is for speakers
and find it works very very well for movies and music.

I run 7.1 for both movies and mc music.
both my speaker placemeant and reciever connections have been stated before
but i will give a quick rehash.

I run a pair of splitters from the rear output of my universal player
because my reciever has 7.1 input not just 5.1

now my front speakers are slightly closer to me then my center.

my surrounds are just slightly "did I mention slightly"
behind me and out to the sides.

Then my rears are spread apart about 4.5 feet near the back wall.

I play all my movies and my mc music in 7.1.

I have tried many different speaker placemeants and find this works
best for me no matter what I play. and I have both Telarc and Chesky discs!

so I have no problem playing any source without having to move speakers.

 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1655
Registered: Dec-03
jan:

what is meant by?

"Kegger - You messed with my brilliance once again! "

you've lost me.
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest

It wasn't your problem, the forum just posted my last response twice and split the responses. It was your post that got in between and took the forum several minutes to get it all sorted out. I just thought I'd assign blame to somebody, though, and you were the closest I could find.

Just a question on your listening, Kegger, why do you ignore Telarc/Chesky suggestions for placement? Have you ever tried their connections?



 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 445
Registered: Apr-04
LR,

do you really experience that much of a difference with the McIntosh amps?

In my experience, yes. This is all subjective, of course. I knew from first listen that something almost magical was happening. The music took on a naturalness I never realized was missing before. The depth of the soundstage was astounding. I remember making a post about feeling as if I could walk between the piano, guitar and bass on an India Arie recording - if only I could see them. That's a concept I never understood before the Mac. The effect was so powerful, that the NAD amp/surround system remained unused for over a month. For me, there's no turning back and, if MC is to be a part of my future, it will have to be powered by a Mac - if I can afford it. I cannot afford a new Mac so will have to keep an eye out for used equipment that will serve the purpose.

Speakers...Have you decided that one brand does better than the other...

It's been awhile since the B&W's were hooked to the NAD. When I first got the NAD & MA's, the MA's were the clear preference. But, with the Mac, the B&W's have taken over as the preferred speakers. This adds to my dilemma since the MA's would have to be used as MC speakers (since I have an MA center) if I add the Mac into the surround system instead of running as a separate system. Given this plus the space limitations in the living room (for both) I suspect I'll end up keeping the Mac in a different room as a strictly stereo only system. Just need to decide which room I want to spend the most time in. lol I believe I'm experiencing a little analysis paralysis. :-)

For your musical preferences, the B&W's would be perfect. I've never heard Kef speakers so can't speak about them but I know John has a very favourable opinion of them. Another speaker you may want to consider, is Spendor s3/5. Rick has been blown away by them and everything I read indicates they have incredible imaging and voice presentation. Like B&W, they are British. A used pair can be had for $600-700.

BTW, over the weekend, Mr B and I paid a visit to the audio salon....had to drag him along kicking and screaming...hehehe....anyway, we heard an $8k B&W speaker (believe it was the 802 model) paired with a $5k Mac amp (400 watts x 2) and a $15k Mac CD w/ external Mac DAC - playing Steely Dan (!) - and it was pretty incredible. With temptations like this, it's hard to "save, save, save, save" for retirement! At least, in this case, I know it is unobtainable and can focus on what I have and make "adjustments" to it within economic reason.

with the Macs, I assume (maybe I didn't read as much as I should have) that you listen in 2-channel with them?

Yes, in my case, I do. My amp is about 25 years old so surround isn't an option - but, you can run 3 pairs of speakers off it! But, Mac has 6 and 7 channel amps. At the audio salon, the 7 channel amp (200 watts per channel) was $7k and you could hook up a $6k Mac surround processor to it that would add DD, DTS, etc. Or, you could let your source player provide the MC processing and save a little money by adding a $3.5k 6 channel preamp instead of the surround processor. If you wanted to save even more money you could go the A/V receive route instead of the amp/processor route. They have a $6k A/V 7.1 receiver (140 watts x7) that would do the MC trick. See how flexible this is? lol. It would be nice to be able to afford any of those options.

Just to give you a little perspective, my used MA6200 amp cost $750 (including shipping - but excluding the fallout from the first damaged amp fiasco) so that's the only reason I was able to afford to get into the Mac arena.

When you go to your doctor friend's "special room" be sure to take Merri with you! It will be an aural treat for both of you!
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 446
Registered: Apr-04
Good lord! Kegger and JV have been busy - and I still haven't run my errands. Must do that and will come back soon to see what's going on!

You guys are the best! All of you!
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1656
Registered: Dec-03
jan the only speaker placemeant I haven't tried is a height channel.
"my ceiling in the basement is only 7.5 feet"

I have put speakers everwhere,recomended and non recomended.
what I have now seems to better then anything else i've tried.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1657
Registered: Dec-03
ghia: if you remember we both agreed at one time on our sound aproval.

"do you really experience that much of a difference with the McIntosh amps?

In my experience, yes. This is all subjective, of course. I knew from first listen that something almost magical was happening. The music took on a naturalness I never realized was missing before. The depth of the soundstage was astounding. I remember making a post about feeling as if I could walk between the piano, guitar and bass on an India Arie recording - if only I could see them. That's a concept I never understood before the Mac"

where you experienced it with a mac and I with tubes.

so my guess would be it's not neccasarily a mac thing but what
some of the older technology can offer to the sound of music that newer designs seem to lack.

obviously there are newer tube units but the tech is basically
the same. the tubes and the transformers are the heart of the amp
then the resistors and caps top it off.

I find it interesting that if output transformers can make a difference
in sound for the good that noone seems to use them anymore
except in tube equipment.
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
Ghia - thank you so much for your comprehensive answers - appreciated, fer shore.
Yes, I did take Mer with me when my friend last "performed" several movies. Poor Mer actually got frightened and asked him to turn down the sound in the Master and Commander "big storm" scene - she was truly scared! But please remember, for those of you whom I've told the tale, Merri and I once took off in an ill-equipped sailboat with an ill-equipped captain and an ill-equipped crew (us) and "drove" right into a four-day storm that left poor Mer so seasick she couldn't move, left the captain drunk, left the boat in tatters, and left me with the scare of my life! 12-foot waves are nothing to mess around with!
So - the storm scene was all too real for Mer. I'd never heard surround sound like that - and coupled with a 6-foot screen, well, it WAS terrifying!
Well, lady, you're talkin' way, way over my head when you refer to B & W 802s (the "Nautilus" I think they're called?) and all the up-scale Macs. Slobber slobber and all that stuff when I see or hear equipment such as that! I'm very happy for you that you found affordable equipment that you desired, and that it is working out so well for you! OK - save, save later! (GRIN)

Jan V. - "the package is in the mail."

Kegger - I applaud you for all of your incredibly hard work on those amps, etc. - long ago I dabbled in such things, but have now settled in with "geezer gear" which I hook up, smile, and turn a few knobs. Probably never get the kind of sound you enjoy - but then I have an "alternate lifestyle" which doesn't hinder you, my friend. It's called "marriage," and while I recommend it, it does tend to put a damper on whole-house tinkering! (grin)
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1658
Registered: Dec-03
lar agreed!

I got yu buddy.
 

J. Vigne
Unregistered guest


Kegger - Just in case you didn't know, Mac still uses output autoformers on most of their equipment. The integrated and reciever are the only Macs that don't have output transformers. And, of course, Mac is making tube gear again.



 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1659
Registered: Dec-03
jan i knew that the newer recievers didn't but i thought that the amps
"multi channel anyway" didn't either!

have you looked at the multichannel amps?

and do you know of anyone else using them?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Ojophile

Toronto, ON

Post Number: 85
Registered: Jun-04
Interesting article from AudioEnz magazine.

http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2004/archive_mybackpages.shtml



 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 447
Registered: Apr-04
I'm back from my errands. The car insurance is paid, Jan's gauge is in the hands of the USPS, got a new vacuum (a British one that never loses suction), bought some new American made socks, ate some quasi-Mexican food and picked up some tunes and even a couple of movies.

First, the tunes. I picked up the DVD-A and the SACD of Steely Dan's "Gaucho. So, will proceed to do the following tests:

- DVD-A stereo vs SACD stereo on the Mac paired with Monitor Audio speakers
- DVD-A surround vs SACD surround on the NAD pair with Monitor Audio speakers

Additionally, I'm going to retest DSOTM in stereo vs surround. My recent stereo listening was very positive and I came away feeling that no value was lost in stereo vs MC (as opposed to the value lost with say the Eagles or Beck in same test.) However, it has been a couple of months since I last listened to DSOTM in MC so maybe I've forgotten what it offered. Hence the retest.

Now, the purpose of this is not to put forth some argument of which is "best". Merely to offer some observations on what each has to offer and which I preferred.

I also picked up SACD recording of Atlanta Symphony performing Vaughn Williams "A Sea Symphony". This is a Telarc CD produced "exclusively from DSD masters made during the recording sessions...."

For the movies, I picked up M&C and Pirates of the Caribbean. Hmmm....there seems to be a theme going on here. Kegger, can you believe I have only watched one film since setting up the surround system? That was the "Dark Side of the Rainbow" pairing of "Wizard of Oz" and DSOTM. Not sure when the movies will be watched. Will probably wait until Mr B is over here.

LR,

Wow! That's a harrowing sailing story. The only time I've been on a sailboat was in Nantucket. We were supposed to go out into the Atlantic. But, 3 ft waves in the harbor made the captain turn back. Doesn't sound like much but you can get tossed about pretty well in that small of a wave.

Kegger,

I, too, admire what you are building. It sounds like you got a great deal on the B&K preamp. It also sounds like you are entering the home stretch. Will you kick back after all is said and done? Or will there be other pursuits?

BTW...I may regret it but I'm starting Clayton. I just have a feeling STL's D will not be strong against the pass. And, if I'm wrong and lose the game...well life goes on.
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 906
Registered: Aug-04
Jan stated:

"I didn't see any answers to my question about speaker placement that told me what you are doing to accomodate the different set ups that are suggested by the various formats and manufacturers. How do you all feel about the variablity of the expectations? Were you aware of them? Do you just ignore the suggestions? Or don't you own any Telarc or Chesky discs? Am I incorrect that the suggested set up for SACD and DVD-A is different that the set up for DD or DTS, especially when running a 6.1 or 7.1 system? "
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------

From Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 06:08 pm:

"And I do think the quality of speakers/source/amplfication would make a difference. Same with speaker placement, but that applies to stereo also. My set up is somewhere between the ideal for HT and MC and I find that's okay. I have not spent enough days, weeks, or months to ascertain whether there is "the" magic setting. I'm happy with the status quo of our entertainment room"


More info:

I don't have any Telarc or Chesky discs but the Denon 2900 has a different filter/setting for playing the Chesky discs.

SACD info suggest all speakers should be full range of the same type/style and placed on an invisible circle with the mains and center on the forward arc and the rear on the hind arc of the circle. Maybe, but I don't think it suffers if you have reasonably good mains, center and rears. Tiny rears that might be okay for HT imo, will not cut it with MC music. As for the circle set-up, that depends on the room whether that is viable or not, but at least the forward arc setting can usually be accommodated if not the rears somewhat close to the suggested position. The circle set-up in our room is pear shaped with the wider arc at the front.

The loudness levels for HT the rears are usually set at a few DB's lower than the mains and center. For hi-rez formats they should be set the same all round. and that I absolutely agree with. And at risk of flame throwing, I use the SPL meter - it's surpising how innacurate the ears can be with set-up tones and the difference the correct setting make.

 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 907
Registered: Aug-04
Ghia,

I'm glad you got both versions of Gaucho. I promised John A I would do the same if I could find a DVD-A version and do the comparison. You saved me the money. Will look forward to your assessment. And turn it up - it's an excellent album - formats aside.

Cheers

 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 448
Registered: Apr-04
Ojo,

Thanks for that link. An interesting perspective, no doubt. It is easy to get caught up in what's delivering the music (and how) and lose touch with the experience of the music. I think that is what was so inspiring to me about the Mac. For the first month, I literally did not do anything more than listen to music. No thoughts about tweaks, no thoughts about comparing formats, etc. It's only been in the past week that I've started doing comparisons and that's mainly out of curiosity as well as trying to determine whether I could actually chuck the surround system to go to a simple stereo setup. At one point, I was literally ready to sell the NAD and the MA's. So, this is an effort, in part, to determine if that is a dumb, short-sighted decision - or - if it is a smart move to "simplify". Not to imply that anyone with a MC system is living with too much complexity (?). I just have to determine do I really need more than one system?

Along the lines of the thoughts the article's author shared, there are a few childhood memories I have in regards to music's role in my life:

- I remember my first sytem, an all-in one 8-track, radio, turntable with speakers (the original boom box?) that Santa brought me. My mother recently sent me a photo of me with that system. My favorite 8-tracks? John Denver, the Carpenters, Sonny & Cher....

- Eight tracks were also my first exposure to "downloading". There was a local record store that created its own 8-tracks with 10-12 hit songs by various artists and sold 'em for $2.50 each. Why be forced to buy a whole tape of songs by a single artist when you only like the single? lol. Illegal? Highly. This particular store was also a head shop (which I didn't understand) and I remember being highly intrigued by the velvet blacklight posters of na-ked negro women.

- When I was even younger, I had one of those portable record players and have recollections of playing 45's at my cousin's house.

- Sometimes, I recall the fun I had riding with my best friend and her sister and her mother in her dad's Chevy pickup truck and singing along with the AM radio songs like "Take This Job and Shove It" and "The Devil Went Down to Georgia"....

- My first drive-in movie without the parents was to see a double-billing that included "The Rose", a music oriented movie. Five of us in a t-top Trans-Am. Perfect summer evening. I don't remember the other film but was blown away by Bette Midler and "The Rose" - this was my first R-rated film too. Even today, I can still recall the monologue leading into the "When A Man Loves A Woman" even though it's been years since I last saw the movie.

- I remember evenings sitting in the dark in my bedroom at an open window with a cool breeze blowing in, and "The Doors" spinning in the background.

- I remember my friend Mark, the drummer, who loaned me jazz albums that first introduced me to artists like John Coltrane and Thelonius Monk. I also listened to those in the dark in my bedroom at an open window with a cool breeze blowing in.

- I remember the homemade speaker stands my Dad built for me out of 2x4's and plywood.

- I remember the demonstration to my aunt JoAnn, the amazing effect of an equalizer. What little I knew, eh?

- I remember listening to Casey Kasem every weekend. I even cried at some of the dedications he'd read.

- I remember "Seasons in the Sun"....

- and "Afternoon Delight".....ironically, one rememberance of this song was listening to it on a church van on the way to a swim party....and at the swim party falling in love with an older "man" - he seemed like a man to me but he was really only 15 or 16.

- I remember my cousin's cousin, Kelly, with his big blonde afro do, platform Chuck Taylors, bell bottoms and silky green/purple paisley shirt with the flowing sleeves and his green Maverick and his love of David Bowie. Back then, I couldn't figure out whether David Bowie was a man or a woman with a man's name....but it never really mattered when the music was playing...

- have I mentioned Sonny & Cher?

Whew! Things sure are different now....I wonder if they are better?
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 449
Registered: Apr-04
Oh my God. The power. The fury. The pure simplicity. The simple elegance. The unquestionable and undeniable results. This new vacuum cleaner is amazing! I'm almost tempted to put off my audio testing so I can vacuum all the rugs. Those Brits certainly know how to make good speakers, good toasters and now, it seems, vacuum cleaners.
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 908
Registered: Aug-04
Ojo,

Good link. It's amazing listening to our old favourites on any system - scratchy old radio or whatever - they take us back to a time and get our feet tapping, make us forget all our woes, help us remember the first dance, the first kiss, the first :-) and so on. It really is about the music.

But all that is so much better when listening with a better quality kit. You get all the above and great sound to boot - all the better to slip away with . . .

"Somewhere - beyond the sea . . ."


But, no matter what kit we have, we always end up wanting better. That's Larry's problem - going to his doctor friend's house and listening to his system. Thereby torturing himself.

Larry - stop it, you'll just get depessed.



 

Classical 1
Unregistered guest
Hi, gang - am back in Siesta Key now (Sarasota) and finding all sorts of unsettling things. First, my associate announced that she will be leaving in two weeks - getting married. (uh, she also said that she's pregnant) Sigh. OK. Also learned that a chain of TV stations is cancelling my contract, so there's a major loss of income.
My financial wizard had better news - that with my recent inheritance I can just chuck it and forget about working. Seriously considering. . .
Also - old friend and sailing buddy has a new sailboat, and wants crew to go down thru the Caribbean, and across the Atlantic, then back. Will take about eight months. I'm seriously thinking of doing it!
Good to hear from LR, though I never worked with him. So many retired TV folk down here in Florida!
Interested to read about the continuing Vivid wars - and am glad that LR is sending Jan V some of the stuff. As I read it, whatever Jan says will carry a lot of weight on this forum!
Had a good trip, and despite my Texas "problem" I think I did some good. Sometimes I win - sometimes lose.
Everybody's talking about the campaign and election, of course - and in the Midwest things tend to get hot. Was in a restaurant Thursday evening when a couple got "into it" with another couple at the next table. Words flew, then water, then a plate - at which time the staff broke up the party, and saved quarts of blood! All because of Kerry and Bush - whew! Didn't know there was such passion in Champaign, Illinois!!!
The chap who looks after my place while I'm gone has done a good job - no signs of mold on the CD collection! So - am sitting back and sipping and listening again to some Bax - do any of you know his work? Interesting chap, and the music is just plain fine! John A. might know about him?
Will let all know if I "defect" or not - at this point a new perspective seems quite good!
More later. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 450
Registered: Apr-04
Thought I would post first impressions even though I've only done the stereo comparison, so far. In comparing the "Gaucho" DVD-A vs SACD in stereo, the difference between the two is, well, vivid. It's pretty surprising how different they are characteristically. Both are outstanding recordings but the recording takes on a different personality within the two formats.

The SACD has a richer, more full bodied sound than the DVD-A which sounds a little leaner. On "Babylon Sisters" Fagen's vocal track seemed more prominent and the backing vocals on the chorus sounds like it has double the number singers as on the DVD-A. The SACD seems to have a clearer delineation and better spacing between the instruments. Even the lower register of the SACD sounds bigger than the DVD-A which is a little surprising. Still, both have a nice tight low end and mid-range. Overall, both are excellent but I seem to prefer the character of the SACD. I must admit I'm surprised the difference is as noticeable as it is.

Another impression....when listening to either format, I kept thinking, "I don't see how surround can improve this..." We'll see tomorrow when I do the full testing: stereo on both Mac & Nad systems and surround on NAD. Thank God it's supposed to rain.

Right now, listening to Sea Symphony. First impression - impressive performance! Also, I keep thinking "I'll bet this sounds even better in surround." We'll see tomorrow.

For what it's worth, the SACD cost $1 more than the DVD-A.

Kegger,

It's mid-way through the second quarter and Clayton has 8 pts vs Bruce's 0. Glad I went with Clayton. My game is now tied 134-134. Just need 7 more yards and no turnovers from Clayton to win my game.
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 451
Registered: Apr-04
"Monday Night Football" with "A Sea Symphony" as the soundtrack...what could be better than that?
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1660
Registered: Dec-03
well ghia you are either realy lucky or extremly skilled.

but i'll tell yu right now there is no way i would of taken
Isaac Bruce out of the game to put in clayton or pretty much
any other reciever for that matter. not with the stats that
Isaac Bruce has put up this season. if i didn't know better i'd
say you got balls girl.


dddddaaaaaammmmmmmm!!

that is some killer sh!t!

good freakin pickin congrats!

p.s. i won too, since bruce finally got outscored by holt!
good for me wwssshhhheeeewwww!!!!

________________________
I bow to you , I'm not worthy!
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 452
Registered: Apr-04
Kegger,

It's all a bit of luck really. But, you can make some educated guesses on what might happen. My decision was based on a several things: 1) TB has strong pass D 2) Holt historically performs well against Bucs 3) Holt is really top dog in STL 4) Clayton is top dog for TB and 5) STL's pass D can be exploited. It worked out. Clayton got 17 pts and I won by 143-134. Pretty cool, considering at 4p Sunday I was losing 114-56.

I also benefitted from having Mewelde Moore on the roster. I picked him up last week off the waiver wire before he had done anything. Started him last week and got 18 pts from him and got 26 from him this week. Did I mention I have Culpepper? lol.

Back to regularly scheduled programming....
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
Ghia and Kegger -

Very strange tennis scores! Hmmm. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 453
Registered: Apr-04
Kegger,

p.s. Glad you won, too! :-)
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2305
Registered: Dec-03
Ghia,

There is a great Naxos DVD-A of the Sea Symphony, too. I would vote for Walt Whitman for president. If I ever I wear a flag on my lapel, or show one, anywhere, it will be the One Flag in the first movement. Hope you like Porgy and Mahler 5. I sometimes recommend things that bomb with people. 2c got the same Sea Symphony recording you have, and went politely silent.

Actually, there is a storm at sea in the Scherzo. which reminds me.

Larry,

Perhaps I sound rude and aggressive sometimes (I don't know why, I am merely bolshy and argumentative), so let me tread carefully here. This is not a criticism, and not a rhetorical question, but a real one. Something you wrote set me thinking about "what do we want/expect?" which Jan returns to from time to time. Here it applies to Master and Commander, which I loved, and my family bought me for my birthday.

Poor Mer actually got frightened and asked him to turn down the sound in the Master and Commander "big storm" scene - she was truly scared! But please remember, for those of you whom I've told the tale, Merri and I once took off in an ill-equipped sailboat with an ill-equipped captain....

Wouldn't you say that your comments are the best imaginable recommendation of the movie and the A/V system, and a real compliment to both? Did Merri really want it turned down so that it was no longer scary....? If so, how DID she want it....?

I thought that was one of the most tremendous and moving scences in motion pictures, and the effect of the music (Vaughan Williams again, tranquil behind the storm) was stunning. Surely rounding Cape Horn in a square-rigger, in a Force 10, should be just that. And, if you've really experienced something like that, yourselves, and it still works for you, isn't that an even bigger compliment to the director and everyone involved...?

The nearest I've got to that storm experience was leaving Oostende in a passenger catermaran that had to turn back because of a rough Channel. That was bad, but nothing in comparison to what you describe, and must have been through. So you and Merri sound like experts in what it must really be like...!

I've seen so many things in movies that are supposed to have a dramatic impact and the director clearly knows nothing and cannot depict toffee.

Do you see my point? Do we not watch movies to be stirred in that sort of way? The same applies to music, it seems to me. Do we want stuff that moves us and engages is? If not, what ARE we looking for...?

No offence, honestly!!

And again, as with the other, main issue, there is no right and wrong in this, I am quite sure.

But it seems to me that the "big storm" scene in Master and Commander did for you, the most knowledgable and least easily fooled of viewers, exactly what the director was after.

All the best.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1661
Registered: Dec-03
GHIA:

WK OPP RESULT REC YDS AVG LNG
1 ARI W 17-10 9 112 12.4 19
2 @ATL L 34-17 8 102 12.8 29
3 NO L 28-25 8 134 16.8 26
4 @SF W 24-14 7 100 14.3 29
5 @SEA W 33-27 6 78 13.0 27

isaac bruce
___________________________________

WK OPP RESULT REC YDS AVG LNG
1 ARI W 17-10 7 96 13.7 36
2 @ATL L 34-17 9 121 13.4 33
3 NO L 28-25 6 65 10.8 32
4 @SF W 24-14 3 28 9.3 17
5 @SEA W 33-27 5 53 10.6 17

torry holt
____________________________________

WK OPP RESULT REC YDS AVG LNG
1 @WAS L 16-10 7 53 7.6 12
2 SEA L 10-6 6 61 10.2 20
3 @OAK L 30-20 2 35 17.5 26
4 DEN L 16-13 4 91 22.8 51
5 @NO W 20-17 4 61 15.3 21

Michael Clayton
_____________________________________

here's was my thinking. (prior to monday night)

isaac bruce has got the best stats of all of them.
tampa bay has scored 4 offensive td's this season.
the most points tampa has scored all season is 20.
the rams have 7 passing touchdowns.
the rams have scored 24,25 and 33 points.
the rams were playing at home in the dome.
and clayton got 91 yards once this season.(has 1 td)
clayton played against n.o and oak (soft d) sub par

----------------------------------------------------
so my educated guess was yes tampa's d is better then
st. louis but clayton has not showed me anything to
take isaac bruce out of the line up.
__________________________________________________

I also picked up Mewelde Moore and ruben drougns.
rumours are koren robinson from seatle will be
suspended and seatle is getting jerry rice in a trade.
_____________________________________________________
As I said congrats on your proper choice of reciever
and the win!

ps. the guy in first in our league has cullpepper too!
That guy is on fire and me with looley payton!

 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
FYI - here is one of several e-mail replies that I've gotten from Lloyd Walker, re "Vivid."

Hi Larry,

Yes, it removes the mold release compound andhas an optical enhancer that makes the plastic more transparent so the laser can read the information better. It is not Pledge and does not have any abrasives in it. Use Vivid on a CD before copying it, and it will copy better. Don't use car polish; it will likely damage your CD.

Thank you.

Lloyd Walker

OK - he's been very gracious, but I'd still like to know if - as Jan suggests - Pledge wouldn't do just as good a job? Now that my "care package" is on its way - Jan will soon be able to do some exacting testing of his own. Waiting. . .

John A. - Merri is a person who shies away from "scary" music in any form. When watching rather graphic movies, she simply leaves the room. She says it's not so much the sight as the sound from movie-music scores and sound effects.
Thus, when she got very upset in the M & C movie, it was real on her part - and yes, she DID really want that sound turned way down! We did, and she was OK.
The storm - and whole experience - that we went through left us as physically-wrecked and mentally-messed as anything we could have imagined.
IF any of you really wants to wade through 22 typed pages of our account - I'll be happy to send it as an e-mail attachment - or, if I can, post it a few pages at a time, on an eCoustics thread with a separate title.
It started out as a long letter of survival to relatives and friends - then got expanded when I decided to turn it into a book. Have been wrestling with the darned thing for years now, but haven't been able to finish it. Consider the 22 pages as a sorts Readers' Digest Condensed Book form! GRIN
And no offense, John! What Merri really wanted was to please me by sharing the movie - she said she will never watch it again. Had you seen her suffer terribly for four days at sea, you would understand why she might feel that way. I have never gotten over the guilt I felt for having put her through a real-life Hell.
Respectfully, Larry R
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
John A. - BTW - "Walt Whitman for President?" Hmmm...now there's a fascinating idea.
Maybe we could substitute "Leaves of Grass" for current campaign platforms? Well. . . .
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1662
Registered: Dec-03
ghia: hope you didn't take my last post as anything more
than my reason for playing bruce over clayton "and loosing"

and dammit those coluums looked fine before I posted.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Ojophile

Toronto, ON

Post Number: 86
Registered: Jun-04
John A., you wrote earlier, What, then, do we do when the next person says that what he hears is not what we hear?

I say, stand your ground, but listen to the other person's views. However, leave it at that and don't pursue it any further. Why? Because as I said, how the music touches you is your own subjective and personal experience. No one can refute that. No one can take that away from you. And you're not obliged to explain or defend it to anyone, not even yourself.

I agree with Mr. Max Christoffersen's statement, "Music is a state of heart and mind" in the article that he wrote for AudioEnz. Here's the link again:

http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2004/archive_mybackpages.shtml

Later.

Regards,



 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1663
Registered: Dec-03
ghia:

I am kinda surprised you haven't watched any flicks yet on your setup.

If you feel like mentioning some flicks or point me in a direction
I may have some suggestions as to what might really
benifet from your setup and give you a true test.

also thank you and lar for your:

"I, too, admire what you are building. It sounds like you got a great deal on the B&K preamp. It also sounds like you are entering the home stretch. Will you kick back after all is said and done? Or will there be other pursuits? "

that is the plan to stop with the building of electronics.
"but yu never know"

I do still have about 3 sets of speakers to finish though.

also now that i've gotten into tube amps i'd like to build a pair
of speakers with 40 tube amps in mind!
see what i can come up with to complement the amps.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1664
Registered: Dec-03
woops should of read:

with 40watt tube amps in mind!

not:

"with 40 tube amps in mind!"

man that would be killer though! lol
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2306
Registered: Dec-03
Larry,

Thank you. I see. Here's a toast to you and Merri and to the liberating alternative life style, which I also recommend. Yes, I'd be interested to read your account.

Vaughan Williams's Sea Symphony, if you do not know it, is chunks of "Leaves of Grass", for big choir, and baritone and soprano soloists, plus a whacking great orchestra. The first bit is called "A song for all seas, all ships". The whole thing is amazing and just, er, oceanic. It gets a bit mystical towards the end.

Breakthrough! Use Vivid on a CD before copying it, and it will copy better.

I just knew it.

Larry, if you send me some Vivided and non-Vivided material, either as discs or files, then I can put comparison files on a members-only address, and we can all see if they sound any different. Apart from your excellent choice of music, we just have to include something from "The Dark Side of the Moon".

Or send me a small splodge of Vivid. Probably best not, though, I would probably use it incorrectly, and, anyway, folks would say I was not doing it right.
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
Ojo - perfectly stated - yah kuddah been a jurnalyst! (and starved to death?)

OK. listen up, friends. Do you like Cole Porter music? Yes? Do you like fine, quirky acting? Do you want a great movie suggestion? (no? oh. . .)
One our favorite movies just came up in the rotation on our DVD rack (we go through the collection, one after another)
It's called "Evil Under the Sun." Peter Ustinov, Maggie Smith, Diana Rigg, Roddy McDowall, et al. An Agatha Christie mystery set on an island - and a great romp! May I highly recommend it - and urge you to rent it somewhere!
Our disc was always a bit "dull," so today
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO TOTALLY ESCHEW VIVID - SKIP THIS PART.
anyway - today we buffed the disc with Vivid. Wow! Merri is delighted! Everything just sparkled. End of rant.

If you want a movie with some suspense, good music, and just plain great "old-fashioned fun" this is a must-see. Of course, there are no Special Forces, explosions, decapitations, political upheavals or Bush-Kerry mud-slinging, so I guess it's out of touch with "reality?"
Sigh. But there is a murder - two of them, actually. Nice "clean" ones, though! (grin)
Ojo - this is a movie for you!
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1665
Registered: Dec-03
john I vividly remember you being appossed to vivid.
or is that just part of my vivid imagination?

 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
John A. (keep skipping over other people's postings, it gets very confusing)
Anyway - OK - I shall put the account on a separate thread - will let you know - probably have to do it a few pages at a time.
As to sending out music files - well, sir, you have me flummoxed here. I simply don't know how to do any such thing! Sorry, but my computer knowledge is limited to e-mail and little more. I barely know how to "burn" CD-Rs! Maybe some of y'all could hep a fellow Ole Dawg here?
And oh, yes, what the heck is a "splodge?" GRIN Must be some "Walesian" term? Love it - it's one of those words that just rings out with description!
OK - will begin sifting through "the Final Voyage of the Gypsy Wind" and post it on a separate thread.
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2307
Registered: Dec-03
Ojo.

Many thanks. I say, stand your ground, but listen to the other person's views. However, leave it at that and don't pursue it any further.

OK, agreed, if all it is only a matter of personal taste etc. But what if there is a cost to someone, even if only $45? And to whom? It is easy to spend others people's money. Or one's own, if one has plenty. Global warming? Kyoto agreement? WMD in Iraq? Effect of Vivid? Music rendered more accurately in mutichannel? Stem cell research? Better speakers cables? Transmission of HIV in sub-Saharan Africa? Hole in ozone layer?

"Anything goes" then becomes a big problem. People don't usually wish to shell out, themselves, for what is only in someone else's imagination.

And if there is a cost, who pays?

And then, what is personal choice and what is public responsibility is difficult to divine. I pay for all sorts of nonsense in taxes. I also think there are all sorts of urgent things that are not being addressed at all, which other people think are nonsense and should not be supported.

Sorry, here I go again. But there are many things that truly are questions of fact, they are about the real world. In those cases, not knowing, or bothering to enquire, is just choosing the default option without knowing it. That can sometome be the worst opition of all.
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
Oh, drat! I don't seem to be able to start a new thread - with apologies - here's pages 1-3 for whomever is interested.
THE FINAL VOYAGE OF GYPSY WIND
©1999 Laurence Roderick

"Hot and humid again, folks, with a high of 103 and a heat index of 115. The humidity is now 100%, and there's a 60% chance of heavy thunderstorms." The voice of the TV weatherman was hardly encouraging as Merri and I sipped lemonade in our Mobile, Alabama, motel room.
It was early July, and we had done it: we had put down an obscenely large amount of money, and had followed my foolish dream of owning--and sailing away on-- a yacht. Oh, it had taken the realities and financial pitfalls of the "fine art" world and its insults to bring us here; friends and relatives couldn't believe that we were really this stupid!
To collapse our lives into the confines of a 35-foot sailboat, we had sold our beautiful 3600-square-foot house in Loveland, Colorado, where we had lived for less than a year and a half. We had sold or given away most of our furniture, TVs, stereo, etc. We had donated most of our large book collection to local libraries, along with more than half of our 1,000-CD music library. We had rented an out-of-alignment truck and fought our way across country to Indiana, where we off-loaded thousands of pounds of books, art supplies and equipment--the heart and soul of Merri's Colorado art studio. This was now the skeleton of our friend G.G. Santiago's own dream: building a teaching studio where artists could come for painting and sculpting classes. Our beautiful rosewood dining table and chairs went to Merri's folks. It looked wonderful in their house. Then we drove our car back to Colorado, to pack up what was left of 16 years of married life.
We had started out with 13,000 pounds of furniture and household goods. When the moving company weighed us for the Florida odyssey, we had 2,700 pounds left. We knew that most of that would eventually wind up in a storage locker, but we had to live an interim apartment life as we searched for "the right boat," so we kept essentials, and enough small luxuries to make life tolerable should our dream collapse.
We drove to Florida in a car so loaded with the stuff of life that we couldn't see inside the back seat area. It was jammed floor to roof. The trunk was bulging. The tires looked disturbingly flat, even with maximum air pressure. We probably looked like a couple of derelict drifters to casual observers. Outwardly, we were happy. Inwardly, we were more terrified than either of us would admit.
We had no destination, other than the Fort Myers area, where we planned on taking courses in basic sailing, navigation, and cruising. We found and took a 7-month lease on a 745-square-foot apartment, and transferred the contents of our groaning car to a one-bedroom existence. We had clothes, a small stereo, kitchen utensils, two folding deck chairs, two small collapsible tables, and an air mattress. That was it! The rest of our possessions we left in a Colorado warehouse, to be delivered later. Much later, it turned out, as the movers said they couldn't deliver our furniture for two months. Let me tell you - that's a long time on an air mattress! We took deep breaths, and signed up for sailing school. In mid-summer. In south Florida! Yep.
Off Shore Sailing School came highly recommended. The office was near our apartment, and the boats were in a Captiva Island marina, 20 miles out in the Gulf of Mexico, but easily accessible by road and bridges. The course took nearly $3,000 out of our checking account, and most of the spirit out of our lives. Oh, our first instructor, Larry, was fine. But Cliff, our advanced instructor, was military-tough, and seemed to dislike us from the start. Meanwhile, we had to endure not only his yelling, but upper-90-degree heat and humidity as only the deep South can provide!
Page 2

We learned that ropes are called lines, or sheets, or rodes, and that our very lives would depend on what we did with them. We learned about boat turns, and sail trim, and how to rescue somebody who fell overboard. We learned how to use the GPS system. More on that later. We came away with sailing, navigating, and cruising certificates. We "graduated" the evening of July 3, and celebrated a new kind of independence for us!
Two weeks of learning gave way to the "looking" phase of this crazy dream of mine. We thought we wanted an Island Packet. Other sailors drooled over the well-made but very expensive boats. But we looked at many brands, toured factories, walked docks, jawed with brokers and owners and dealers.
We seemed to "fit" in the Island Packets, but we quickly determined that we could not afford the $250,000 price tag for a new one. We would have to go "used." We went to a couple of brokers near St. Petersburg, but felt that they gave us little help. Then, we found another Larry--Larry Smith, of Punta Gorda, about 45 minutes north of Ft. Myers. We met him, liked him, and took his advice on a boat we had seen advertised in the boating magazines for several months. A 1992 Island Packet cutter, Gypsy Wind should have been listed for about $140,000, but had an asking price of $130,000. Larry Smith called the listing broker in Mobile, Alabama, and got a rather incredible story.
Pieced together from several sources, the story was that the owner--one Billy Minges, of Tuscaloosa, Alabama--had had open-heart surgery in 1991. In gratitude to his surgeon, he ordered a custom-built boat and gave it to him! But the surgeon, we were told, had no time for sailing, so he gave back the boat! Billy Minges was not a sailor. He was a power man--he owned eight large motor yachts--and now had a problem. He offered the boat as a daysailer and party boat to top officers in his steel company, but it was seldom used, and finally wrapped up and stored in a river at Mobile.
Our broker learned that the canvas covers on the sails were badly weathered, and that leaks had rotted out the main cabin sole, or floor. This, he said, had been replaced, and he suggested that the boat would be a good buy if we could get a small price reduction. We dickered and argued by telephone and fax, and finally agreed on a price--if our inspection with a trained surveyor showed no "hidden" problems. And we had done all this without ever seeing the boat!
So now, here we were, in a stuffy motel room, in a state of terrible depression. We had driven to Mobile for the official inspection, but had gone to the marina a day early for a "sneak peek." What we found was a dog-eared boat. My heart sank at the sight of shredded canvas, ragged, mildewed teak, and lines (ropes) that looked like they would fall apart with a slight tug. But when the broker, who "just happened to be on the dock," popped open the padlock and led us below decks, the scene was totally different. The boat had, indeed, been lightly used. Everything looked brand new! Still, I was scared and depressed.
The next day, Larry Smith, who had also come to Mobile, joined Merri and me on the boat. We also met the surveyor, who would take "only $600" of our money in exchange for a "thorough inspection" of the boat. Miraculously, gnomes or fairies or some such entity had come aboard the boat, scrubbed her down, and gotten some of the mildew off what had been bright turquoise sail covers and cockpit canvas. After all, in this business, SALE is more important than SAIL!
The surveyor and Larry began their probe, announcing that the electronics were mostly bad, and had apparently been damaged by some electrical surge. I immediately thought of lightning, of course! Those in-your-face turquoise sail covers needed replacing, but the below-decks equipment was just fine.
Page 3

We hoisted the sails and took Gypsy out in Mobile bay for a "test drive." With a 5-knot breeze and smooth sea, we had a marvelous time. Merri said the smile on my face could have lit up Chicago!
The boat was equipped with all the comforts of home: a 5-kw generator for electricity; air conditioning; a freezer and refrigerator; hot and cold pressurized water; showers in both the head and the cockpit; a microwave; and teak and upholstery that looked virtually unused. She could be beautiful, with, oh, about $25,000 worth of work. Gulp. . .
Back from our smooth-as-silk test sail, the boat went through the usual knockings and twistings and pullings that go into a survey. And then the fun really began. The marina crew see-sawed the boat under a giant crane, and slowly hoisted Gypsy out of the water, on a couple of huge web slings. Then, to my amazement, the whole crane apparatus just started rolling across the shipyard! But it stopped as one of the straps made a "twang" sound - and slipped towards the bow! There followed a bit of yelling and "get back" orders, but the strap held firm, and the inspection continued. All was pronounced "fit" and Gypsy was gently plopped back into the water.
We drove back to Ft. Myers, talked and figured, and gave Larry Smith the green light to accept the contract. Now we faced another problem: how to get the boat more than 450 miles across the Gulf of Mexico and to its new home at the Burnt Store Marina, in Punta Gorda, where we had decided to berth her. Since Merri and I were still technically novices, Larry Smith strongly urged us to hire a delivery captain. He said he'd gladly do it, but had a large contract working, and couldn't spare the time. We asked around, were put off by several $3,000 asking prices, and looked for somebody less expensive.
Some local "boaties" agreed with Larry Smith that a Burnt Store Marina worker with a record of several Mobile-to-Florida boat deliveries and a coast guard captain's license might be a good choice, even though he had a reputation as "a bit of a drinker." "Hey," we thought, "most of the sailors we know are heavy drinkers." And we called the man we'll call "Captain Courageous," or "Captain Chuck" or, to make things easier, just plain "CC." We took him to lunch, agreed on a $1600 plus all expenses price, and opened the checkbook again.
We figured the trip would take five or six days after Merri and I got the boat patched up, provisioned, and ready to sail. First, however, we bought one-way airfare for CC, and tried to find a one-way rental car for us, because Merri wanted to make the voyage with CC and me. We called for prices. The first agency refused to rent one-way to Mobile. The second one wanted $800 for a one-week contract. Oh, yes, the agent called Mobile "a foreign city." We would later agree on that! Anyway, agent #3 said we could get a car for $168--but we couldn't leave it in Mobile. We'd have to drop it off in Pensacola, Florida, about 50 miles east of Mobile. Well, what the heck! We decided that CC and I would sail Gypsy Wind to Pensacola as Merri returned the car, then pick her up and sail into the sunrise the next day. Good plan, but. . .
We had already spent thousands of dollars in new boat equipment--2-way radio, binoculars, portable compass and GPS, safety harnesses and flotation vests, flares and smoke bombs, an EPIRB (emergency locator beacon) and hundreds of pounds of stuff that would fill the rental car to the roof, and spill down on us! For readers who don't understand GPS, by the way, it is a wonderful electronic position-finding system using military satellites and small on-boat receivers. The palm-sized unit we bought would save our lives.
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 454
Registered: Apr-04
Kegger,

My theory is team stats are a better indicator than individual stats of a potential outcome.

Sure, Bruce's individual stats are better than Clayton's but consider:

These stats show the opponent, their ranking in pass defense and the avg passing yards allowed per game:

Bruce: Ari (27, 239) Atl (21, 222) NO (29, 263) SF (17, 211) Sea (16, 210)

Clayton: Was (3, 147) Sea (16, 210) Oak (8, 201) Den (2, 137), NO ( 29, 263)

As you can see, in Bruce's first 5 games, he faced 3 defenses that were ranked 21st or worse. The other 2 were ranked 15th & 16th. Clayton, on the other hand, faced 3 defenses that were in the top 10 with 2 of those being in the top 3. The other 2 he faced were ranked 16th and 29th. So, you might expect Bruce to have better stats based on the teams he faced compared to the teams Clayton faced. On top of that, consider that Bruce has a better QB (Bulger) than Clayton who had to deal with Brad Johnson for the first 4 weeks before Johnson was demoted to 3rd QB.

Then, take into consideration, STL pass defense is ranked 25th giving up 233 yards per game and TB pass defense is ranked 4th giving up 158 yards per game. This is why I ended up going with Clayton.

Still, there's no way of knowing what will actually happen and I was not 100% of whom to start. I had Clayton originally, then switched to Bruce on Sunday afternoon then switched back to Clayton on Monday.

If Clayton is on the waiver wire in your league you should pick him up. He's going to get even better and is a good 2nd or 3rd WR option. IMO. lol.
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 455
Registered: Apr-04
Kegger,

BTW, those are pass defense rankings only not overall....

apologies for being OT with these football posts :-)
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1666
Registered: Dec-03
ghia I got yu and understand where your coming from.

but as hot as bruce has been I would not have been able to bring
myself to pull him.

I also have a philosophy of better players, that I don't sit them
because of a matchup.

The way I go about it is good or hot players play no matter who the
apponent. it's the next in line guys i play the matchup thing.

I've just gotten burned to many times sitting a good player because
the matchup was tough. I allways end up sitting one on the week they rock
and playing them when they don't do so well

so for me good players play every week instead of trying to get the right week
just seems to work better for me.

that was what I was trying say. not that you did anything
wrong it's just me personally I've given up on the matchup
thing with my better players.

 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1667
Registered: Dec-03
ghia: I hope you don't take this as anything more then 2 people
talking football.
and I'm treeting you as an equal "not as a woman or a lesser football person)
but a fellow fantasy footballer! I would do the same with anyone.

very few people agree on how to get it done.

and I'm sure with the amount of different topics that have been talked about
on this board that some football isn't going to hurt it.

so bring it on what else you got! lol

 

Bronze Member
Username: Ojophile

Toronto, ON

Post Number: 87
Registered: Jun-04
[Larry: Ojo - perfectly stated - yah kuddah been a jurnalyst! (and starved to death?)]

Larry, I kuddah been many things if only the fear of being hungry hadn't stopped me from pursuing many dreams. So here I am, self-employed with a day job, but keeping music as an avocation. Yes, I'm a big fan of Cole Porter's music --- it's one of many standard materials considered de rigueur in a jazz musician's repertoire. Add Gershwin, Irving Berlin, Jerome Kern, etc. to the list.

Can't wait to hear the rest of the story. Great writing, Mr. Roderick!

 

Bronze Member
Username: Ojophile

Toronto, ON

Post Number: 88
Registered: Jun-04
John A.,

Thanks, but you really got my head spinning on that last reply. Let me offer this rejoinder to my earlier view:

There are some common grounds on which two listeners can measure and agree on when evaluating recorded music on a reference system. These areas may and can help answer what you describe aptly as "questions of fact, they are about the real world." Let me offer some examples: a) how the cymbals decay; b) does the bass sound full or boomy; c) do the vocals sound natural; d) do mid-range tones sound bright or harsh when the music builds to a crescendo or when the volume is turned up; e) and so on and so forth.

But what one "hears", "not listens to", is subjective and thus, even inaccessible to the other person. Why? Because it reaches deep down into your soul. When a piece of music tugs at your heartstrings, that is sheer pleasure!


Regards,

Don

 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1668
Registered: Dec-03
ghia keenan mccardel just went to the chargers
so if you need any recievers!

he's probably going to go quick.

it's the trade deadline in the nfl today if you didn't know.

 

Silver Member
Username: Sem

New York USA

Post Number: 281
Registered: Mar-04
For those that don't know, Mrs. Sem and I drove down to D.C. this past weekend to see the '60s band, The Zombies, https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=47070&post=159395#POST159395
They were very good but the relevance here is as a final song of their encore, they did Gershwin's "Summertime" - a stange way to end a show like that, but I loved it.
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 456
Registered: Apr-04
The resluts are in. First, let me say this testing would be much easier if I had 2 Denon 2200's but you work with what you have. Also, had a little mishap in that I knocked one of the MA's off the stand during the setup so now, instead of being in pristine condition, it has 2 dinged corners. I guess that'll only be an issue if I ever sell them. It's a little embarrassing that I damaged the speaker when I was so worried one of the cats might. They are smarter than I am it appears.

Anyway, some general observations.

- For the most part with both SACD and DVD-A, I preferred the surround mix except for "hey nineteen". For that song, I preferred the stereo mix in both formats.

- On the DVD-A, the surround mix was clearly preferred over the stereo mix. With the previously noted exception, all the songs benefitted from the space provided by the surround mix. This is consistent with the past results I noted with the Eagles and Beck.

- On the SACD, the surround mix was also preferred but the stereo mix was pleasing too. Again, consistent with results from other recordings I've listened to this week. Unless I have some sort of bias towards SACD stereo, it seems the stereo downmix works better in the SACD format than DVD-A. I wonder why?

And now......drum roll......the winner in the format preference: SACD

As noted yesterday in the initial stereo listens, there is a distinct difference between the two and it is not a subtle difference. The SACD has a bigger, richer, smoother, more full bodied sound than the DVD-A. The vocals in the SACD mix were more natural sounding and more prominent than DVD-A. There were elements of the DVD-A that were actually distracting and harsh sounding, specifically, the snare drum which is given a lot of prominence in Steely Dan recordings. By comparison, on the SACD, while retaining its prominence, it had a much smoother sound.

So are these results driven by the source, the media or the technology? Or just this recording?
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 457
Registered: Apr-04
Kegger,

That's how I interpreted it...two people talking football...of course, you might feel differently about it if you were in my league and you had a 3-3 record while the girl had a 5-1 team. lol. There's still a ways to go in the season so who knows where I'll end up - but, there are a couple of guys in my league who aren't very happy right now. One guy is 0-6.

Thanks for the tip on McCardell. I'll put in a waiver wire request - but there are 8 teams ahead of me so he probably will be gone before I can claim him. That's the only bad thing about winning is being low on the waiver priority. lol
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 458
Registered: Apr-04
Oops! Apologies for that misspelling in my 4:58p post.
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 459
Registered: Apr-04
Also, I didn't make it clear in the 4:58p post that those comments are specific to Steely Dan "Gaucho".
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1669
Registered: Dec-03
ghia glad to here you feel the same.

we only have a waiver period until 11:00 am tuesday.
after that players are free for anyone to pickup for a $1

______________________________________
If you remember awhile back mr. rantz and myself
felt very simular to
your discovories of sacd vs dvd-a that sacd sounded more analog
and dvd-a sounded more digital.

neither one of us have done the direct comparison as yourself.
except I did do it with becks disk but it was hard to tell on that one.

not that I want one to be better then the other but I'm glad you seem
to have the same findings!

sounds like we are getting somewhere.
also sorry to here about your speaker.
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 909
Registered: Aug-04
The brown spotted ornich can be found in the sub tropics of Queensland, mainly along the river and creek banks. It thrives on insects and mice and the occasional small kangaroo.

It is generally known as a nocturnal aviator but can often be seen getting an early start just before dusk as it sets out on its nightly hunt. Although owl-like in appearance, it is not related to the owl, it is closer to the hawk family and has powerful talons and beak enabling it to tear flesh very easily.

Generally, the brown spotted ornich is not a threat to humans but can become a little ornary during nesting season, much like we do. Oh, sorry, wrong word. So, it's best to steer clear if one spots a nest which can be identified also by brown spots. How the ornich makes the spots remains a mystery to this day. Anyhow, this marvellous bird, having a wingspan of around 1.77 mts often soars the thermal currents in the dawn hours as the thinner air assists its digestive system. Unfortunaltely, if found in abundant numbers near civilization, they can be a major nuisance to car owners as the excrement hardens quickly and can only be removed with acetone.So much care needs to be taken to avoid damage to paintwork.

The brown spotted ornich can also, with the right preperation, be a wonderful white meat dish. Tasting somewhere between chicken and crocidile when roasted in the oven, it's unusual flavour is complimented with basil and a pinch of rosemary. Regular basting is recommended also and to really bring out the flavour, some chefs will coat the carcass with a soy based glaze prior to darn good roasting which what some good friends on this forum require lately. I mean is this a football forum, or a venue for publishing short novels? Really!

 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
Sigh - all - in the interest of "reader boredom" I've realized that my posting of the "Gypsy" story on this thread is too "congested." Thus, future pages will be posted on the less-used "Discussions" thread. If any of you remain interested, that is.
 

Silver Member
Username: Sem

New York USA

Post Number: 282
Registered: Mar-04
My Rantz, LOL. I guess Old Dogs do tend to wander off the beaten path on occasion. Perhaps it would be wise to keep one's eyes to the skies for both powerful tallons and falling excrement. :-)
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 460
Registered: Apr-04
MR,

You proceed to roast me without the slightest mention of my review of your beloved Steely Dan hi-rez? Not a single comment about the fact I, for the most part, preferred MC over stereo? My god man! I did this all for you! Purchased TWO Steely Dan discs, spent hours setting up the equipment, carelessly damaged equipment, spent more hours listening to the discs and this is all I get out of you? I give up. :-)


LR,

I'm interested. Post your novel over on Discoveries. It's time for that thread to come out of dormancy, anyway.
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 461
Registered: Apr-04
For sale: slightly used NAD T763 surround receiver, slightly damaged Monitor Audio GR10 plus matching center speaker, one slightly used Steely Dan "Gaucho" DVD-A, one slightly used Steely Dan "Gaucho" SACD. Will consider selling separately. Serious inquiries only.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1670
Registered: Dec-03
rantz I liked your bird story please more!

I hope your last comment was said in jest as i remember quite a few
lone ranger/tonto/nun stories along with beer/wine/anything else.

ghia good one!
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1671
Registered: Dec-03
so mr. rantz someone rattled your cage aye?

 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 910
Registered: Aug-04
"and this is all I get out of you? I give up."

Ghia,

No, not at all, but first things first. I just felt the need to give you football fanatics and novelists a roasting first. Now:

Thank you so much for going to all that trouble to test the Steely Dan Gaucho hi-rez recordings. It is greatly appreciated by myself and, I'm sure, many of our other friends here who have an interest in the matters related to this forum thread :-)

I anticipated the results of your test. I noted with interest your preference to the stereo version of "Hey Nineteen" which I thought was sensational in MC. So, I will need to give the stereo version a listen which I have done only on the CD layer (which is very good also).

Appreciated also was your assistance in my saving some money and it is with my deep regret to hear of your damage to your speakers. Please forgive my inadvertent delay in responding to your published results and I can only assure you that I shall endeavour to try harder next time.


Sem - only if travelling the Qld sub tropics :-)


John A

"Breakthrough! Use Vivid on a CD before copying it, and it will copy better."

Okay, I give in and humbly eat my words until whether the stuff assists the copy can be proven otherwise. I'll also give Mr Walker the benefit of the doubt also - but that advice did come from the maker of the product. Has he done the test or is it just words? Oh no - am I becoming a conspiracist also?





 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 911
Registered: Aug-04
Kegger

You should know me by now :-)

and how did you know they keep me caged?
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 912
Registered: Aug-04
"For sale: slightly used NAD T763 surround receiver, slightly damaged Monitor Audio GR10 plus matching center speaker, one slightly used Steely Dan "Gaucho" DVD-A, one slightly used Steely Dan "Gaucho" SACD. Will consider selling separately. Serious inquiries only."



$30.00au for the Steely Dan Gaucho DVD-A recording.
$550.00au for the rest.

Freight & full insurance included.


Hey, and that's serious!
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1672
Registered: Dec-03
Rantz I thought so. sorry!

well time to get some things done and hope my amp
is finally done. "didn't test it last night"

see yu!
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 913
Registered: Aug-04
Cheers mate!

And I also congratulate you for your efforts in research & developement of the tube amp and speaker gear. Bl00dy marvellous!

Cheers
 

Silver Member
Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 462
Registered: Apr-04
Mr Rantz,

I couldn't possibly let you overpay for the Gaucho DVD-A.

20.58 au for the Steely Dan DVD-A
4120.09 au for the rest

Freight and insurance extra. Will double-box at no extra charge.
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 914
Registered: Aug-04
Ghia,

Mr Rantz?

Sorry those prices are a little too much. I only wanted it for the bedroom. :-)

And I do hope you don't sell your HT/MC gear - even though I understand your affection for the old timer I think you'd regret it in the long term.
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 916
Registered: Aug-04
Larry R

"If any of you remain interested, that is."

He says as he skillfully leaves us hanging on his hook. My answer is yes please and hurry.

Cheers.

 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2309
Registered: Dec-03
Larry,

I would love to read your story in full.

Re "Splodge" yes it could just be a bit Welsh, they do relish a good dollop of onomatapaea, look you. (I see for the first time that you have a Welsh surname).

If you can copy CDs you are doing fine for computer skills, I think. If you are willing, I shall send you two identical discs and you can treat one of them, to your satisfaction, and send them back to me, labelled to distinguish them, but not telling me which is which. We should have to decide what is good material.

[Ramble: I suppose I could make a compilation with typical Old Dogs' stuff: Janacek's Glagolitic mass, Benny Hill's "Ernie, fastest milkcart in the West", Some Shostakovich; "Wild thing" by the Trogs, plus something by Mahler, Steely Dan, and of course Rossini's William Tell overture, to ride off into the sunset. That sort of thing... We'd probably have the entire record industry down on us like a ton of bricks.]

Ghia,

I agree totally with MR. Thank you for the comparison of SACD with DVD-A. It is the first I have heard or read.

Kegger,

I am not opposed to vivid! I am curious. I would like to know if it works, and, if so, how.

Ojo,

Thanks. I agree with all you write about music, and do so warmly. But, look, either Vivid works to improve sound quality, as claimed, or it doesn't. Whether it works is completely independent of what we wish. "Works for me" or "works for him" is not good enough, is it? If you spend $45 and it doesn't "work for you", then who is at fault? This is my main point.

Vivid is of little consequence in the grand scheme of things, as everyone agrees, here. But "How can we know?" answered with "you can't, but it is still true, for me" is a massive problem, as I see it. I think it is called a cop-out.

Sem,

"Summertime" was one of those 60s ballads every man and his dog took a crack at, though it is still amusing that the Zombies had a go, too. They must be quite, well, old, by now...?

The best version, in my view (yes this IS entirely subjective) is sung by Marietta Simpson as Maria on the EMI DVD I have been raving about. What a voice that lady has, and what an incredible and effortless range. It is, as we used to say, something else. Not many 60s lead singers even attempted the two octaves, I recall. It would have been like P. J. Proby dueting with Tiny Tim.

There's....uh...place...fo' us;
Some-uh-war, a play-iy-ay-iy-ay-iy-ace...fo' us..

If PJP could murder West Side Story I don't see why he held back on Porgy and Bess.
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
MR and all - please see "discoveries," not Discussions, as I mistakenly posted earlier, for pages 4 thru 6.
I'll be posting about three pages at a time, because I understand there's a limit on how much can be put in each posting, correct?
Not trying to by "coy" here, Ghia et al, just hoping not to "mess up."
BTW - the version that I'm posting is the original "true" version - the one I'm working on will be the "novel" version - without real names, etc., so I don't wind up in court!
So far, I've got about 170 pages down, but just get bogged down. Sigh. The problem I face is that most publishers look on the story as just another "sailing story," and not of interest to the general population. So - the "novel" version has more humor and is less detail-oriented regarding sailing terms, etc. There will be a glossary of terms, maps, drawings, etc., in the back of the book for those who want to dig into sailing terminology and all that.
I'll probably post about three pages a day or so, with a total of 22 pages. I look forward to some brutally honest response from those who take the time to read. Needless to say, the experience changed our lives forever!
Ciao -
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
John A. - no need to send me discs - just send me your address and I'll burn a couple of CD-Rs for you with no problem.
Send address to wryte4u@comcast.net and we'll go from there.
When I said I didn't know how to copy music files, I meant that I haven't the foggiest idea how to put the music on a link, or whatever, then send it to you on the forum or by e-mail. That is over my head (as are most things)
REspectfully, Larry R
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
After thinking it over (a rare thing for me) I wonder: do the CD-R "blank" discs have mold release compound on them, the same way "regular" pressed CDs do? I'd suppose so - but now I wonder if using Vivid on CD-Rs will have the same results as using it on commercial CDs - hmmm. . .
 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
Gypsy Wind story thru page 9 now on "Discoveries."
 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2311
Registered: Dec-03
Massive blunder and apologies (correcting Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 11:45 pm)

"Summertime" is sung by Clara. Therefore the amazing voice is that of Harolyn Blackwell. The part is played by Paula Ingram.

Sorry, folks. It is so good.

Ghia, tell 'em!

Oh yes, friends, I nominate as the official song for this thread Sporting Life's "It ain't necessarily so".
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1673
Registered: Dec-03
john:

when i said:

"john I vividly remember you being appossed to vivid.
or is that just part of my vivid imagination?"

it was a joke, just trying to use the word vivid many times.

no poking fun at you sir just a little humor!

-------------------------------------

well the first amp is up and running fine.
now onto the last one "that i've been working on"
just need to test it. "i hope"

ups says the prepro should be here by monday so that means no tube
surround until the following weekend. "darnit"
 

Gold Member
Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1674
Registered: Dec-03
were is J.V. , oh i know with the freshmen!

well when you move on to varsity j let us know!

 

Gold Member
Username: John_a

Post Number: 2312
Registered: Dec-03
Thanks, Kegger! I get it. It is difficult to keep a sense of humor when you are so livid about vivid.
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 919
Registered: Aug-04
Rick,

Where are you?




You haven't really left us have you Rick?




Rick!




Ricky!




Hey Rickster, you there?




Tell us it ain't so, Rick!




HEY BARNESY!!!!!!!

 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
MR - I think Rick is out sharpening his Samurai sword. . .
Good sounds for me - listening to the fine Toronto jazz FM station "linked" to me by Ojophile. Mid-night happy. . .
And I suspect that JV is in trouble - probably got my "care package" of Vivid and splashed some on his computer. Supposed to make things more "transparent," after all - and he probably can't see the danged thing now!
G-nite all from Swampville. . .
 

Silver Member
Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 920
Registered: Aug-04
From Loveland to Swampville . . .

Oh Larry, that's sad!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Ojophile

Toronto, ON

Post Number: 91
Registered: Jun-04
Larry,

I heard through the grapevine that James Cameron is interested in making a movie about "Gypsy Wind."

Hey, glad to hear that you tuned in to CJRT http://www.jazz.fm (Toronto's only all-time jazz station). It's the fall fund-raising season, and my wife and I are renewing our pledge for support.

Don't prolong the agony, Mr. R.; please keep those "...Gypsy Wind" pages coming.

Cheers!

 

Larry R
Unregistered guest
Mornin' all - (yawn) yeah, Loveland to Swampville WAS sad, as a matter of fact! If any of you is thinking of "following a dream," well, contact Merri or me first, OK? Hmmm. . .
Anyway - Pages 10 thru 15 now posted on "Discoveries," and - "the plot thickens!" GRIN

I'll post more pages after lunch - and will try to wrap the whole thing up tonight sometime.

Thanks for the positive comments - sigh - I still can't read this story without shedding more than a few tears, it's that "heavy" on my mind to this day. Sigh. (I sure do miss my boat!!!)
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