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The final decision: Denon vs. Yamaha

 

Bronze Member
Username: Argento

Post Number: 57
Registered: Apr-04
I need to buy quickly a receiver to replace my old Yamaha.
After analyzing the models and prices, these are my final options:

Cheap: YAMAHA 650
Intermediate: DENON 2805
Expensive: DENON 3805

There are $200 approximately among each one of the options.
The receiver will be used basically for movies, since soon I will add a stereo amp for music.

I will thank opinions about (please) ONLY these three models.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Sound_advice

Post Number: 48
Registered: Sep-04
A couple of years ago I had a Yamaha RXV 800, I sold it and bought a Denon 2802 and without a dought my vote goes to Denon, it has a wider better detailled sound stage, but don't just take my word for it, I would suggest that you listen to the two side by side...

In Home Theater mode you will definetely enjoy the smooth presentation that the Denon offers.
 

Silver Member
Username: Bleustar

Pensacola, Florida

Post Number: 110
Registered: Jul-04
The Denon 2805 should do you fine. The 3805 is quite a upgrade in cost, but not much in sound.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Argento

Post Number: 58
Registered: Apr-04
Thanks for the inputs.
Two votes for Denon.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 766
Registered: Feb-04
As you should already know I dislike both your options, and would suggest other makes instead.

If you really want to go with those unmusical, bright sounding receivers, then I would have to vote for Yamaha RX-V1400. It's versatile, and sounds ok with movies. Sufficent power reserves and the real YPAO autocalibration. The Denon 3805 is good, but too bright for my ears, and with the price you have better options.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Nm2285

Delaware

Post Number: 32
Registered: Aug-04
Since it's mostly for movies, go with whatever feature set you like best. They'll all do fine for movies. I'd say the middle of the road Denon is probably the best since you'll not be using it for music.

What speakers will it be paired with?
 

Unregistered guest
Alejandro,

Yamaha is not only good for movies. For me its the best for same price level. It will let you experience the "being there" feeling that no other brands can do. Get the latest RXV-x50 model or if possible the 1400 or 2400 model. Try to audition with Paradigm speakers or European speakers like Tannoy, Monitor Audio or Mission. Or any speaker you find good. If you find it a bit bright, try putting thick curtains and carpets in your room. Thats what I did. Your wife may help you as mine does. Also dont expect their power ratings to be true. Treat it to be 30% to 40% lesser. But dont worry, their rated 100wpc is more than enough for small to medium rooms. Anyway, the subwoofer, which is a must for movies, will be responsible for that big, room-shaking sound. What we, movie fanatics are after of, is that movie sound processing only yamaha can give. Just audition. We might have the same taste.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Argento

Post Number: 59
Registered: Apr-04
Landroval:
I already know that you don't like Denon neither Yamaha, but the editorial reviews and the user's comments say another thing. I'm also a Yamaha's user and I don't really have anything to object of their reliability and their sound in movies.

With music, it's different, but like I said before, the receiver will be used for movies only and Denon and Denon and Yamaha seem to be (at least for my) the best options.

The question is if is justified to pay the difference among the mentioned models.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Argento

Post Number: 60
Registered: Apr-04
Nm2285:

I have Tannoys.
But the question is if is justified to pay the difference among the mentioned models.

 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 779
Registered: Feb-04
The only way to know what you will like is to try the receivers yourself. Even if reviews praise Denon it doesn't mean it's the best choice for you and your speakers. A while ago I did listen to 3805 with Tannoy Fusion speaker set and it was so awfully bright that I could not listen to it for any longer than a couple minutes. It was really something I could not use at home. This is all about personal preference, not reviews.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Mitchbd

Post Number: 13
Registered: Feb-04
Take a good look at the Yamaha. Given those choices, the Yamahas sound a bit more alive than the Denons do. They are a good value, have good features, and are well built. I've installed several in HT applications, with nary an issue. People have been pleased with results. I also agree with 'landroval'... it all comes down to personal choice. System synergy is very important, and what might be good for some people, may not be good for others. Take your time with a Demo of both brands, coupled with YOUR speakers.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Argento

Post Number: 61
Registered: Apr-04
dong:

Of course, the acoustics of the room is the most important factor for a good sound.
Thank you for the advice.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Look4sun

Post Number: 19
Registered: Sep-04
Yamaha RX2400 and Denon 2803 or 3803 offer their personal characteristic.
I have listened to both receiver. Yes, Denon is smooth and detail in music, but when it came to home theatre, the Yamaha is superb.
The surround of Yamaha really works ! It just not give the surround the power, but it seems realistic. Denon is OK but not powerful than Yamaha.
THats my opinion, guys.
 

Anon Heredy
Unregistered guest
Both Yamaha and Denon are good for movies. The only advantage Yamaha has over the other are its DSP's. But only you then will decide.
 

Silver Member
Username: Elitefan1

Post Number: 702
Registered: Dec-03
If as Landroval says the Tannoys are on the bright side then neither Denon or Yamaha would be good choices IMO. But if you are determined to get either one I would go with either the Yamaha 1400 or 2400 or new 1500 and 2500 instead of the Denons. The newer Yamaha's are not overly bright anymore and my experience with the Denon 3803 has sworn me off Denon forever. Just a horribly shrill, sibilant receiver. I much preferred the Yamaha 2400 when I heard it. As to the question of power from above the Denon's do have better power supplies and much better multichannel output but in a small to medium room it won't matter much if at all.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 76
Registered: Sep-04
Alejandro,

I would choose the Yamaha, although if you can go for a more expensive model it would be better. The reason I suggest the Yamaha is because the Yamaha presentation is more neutral than the Denon's. If you wish to integrate a stereo amp for music and use that to drive your main speakers in movies, then the Yamaha is more likely to match the stereo amp than the Denon. Denons have a particularly lively presentation which is unlikely to be your choice of music amp.

If you're not integrating the music system in with the movie system, then the choice comes down to whichever brand you feel more affinity for. Both Yamaha and Denon make amplifiers at various price points. The Denon presentation is a bit more "blood'n'guts" whereas the Yamaha is a bit more subtle but not necessarily as impressive.

Regards,
Frank.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Argento

Post Number: 62
Registered: Apr-04
therealitefan/landroval:

I don't agree about the sound of the Tannoys.
I don't know that models have listened, but either the previous models (mercury, saturn, definition) as the new ones (sensys, eyris, dimension) NEVER sound on the bright side. Their sound can be qualified as neutral with emphasis in the voices but never bright. The Fusion don't have the Tannoy's sound. Take a look to the real Tannoy's models.

BTW, Do you think that denon and yamaha have a bright sound with MOVIES?
 

Silver Member
Username: Elitefan1

Post Number: 703
Registered: Dec-03
Alot of that answer depends on the speakers of course but the Denon 3803 I had was very bright on any source. The Yamaha 2400 I heard with Paradigm 7's was not bright but was thin sounding. If I had to choose between them I would take the Yamaha as my experience with the 3803 was horrible. I had a Denon 2802 before and liked it and was shocked at the difference between the two and am was also a bit shocked at how good the Yamaha 2400 sounded especially compared with their receivers of the last 15-20 years which to me [an old Yamaha fan from their great 70's amps] sounded very bright and thin. With a warm or neutral speaker I could live with the 1400 or 2400 but not their cheaper models.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 785
Registered: Feb-04
Alejandro, I agree that Mercury, Saturn, Sensys and Eyris are easier for the ear. The Fusion is similar to Mercury, but it's somewhat brighter. The Denon + Fusion combo was terrible, the Yamaha V1400 was clearly better.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Argento

Post Number: 63
Registered: Apr-04
This is a comparative chart of the main functionalities of the three models:

Yamaha 650/ Denon 2805/ Denon 3805
Power Output: 7x110/ 7x100/ 7x120
THD: 0.06/ 0.05/ 0.05
DSP: YSS-930/ SHARC HammerHead SHARC HammerHead
Bits DSP: 32/ 32/ 32
PLIIx: Yes/ Yes/ Yes
HDCD: No/ No/ Yes
Auto Setup: Yes/ Yes/ Yes
Microphone Incl.: Yes/ Yes/ No
Auto room eq: Yes/ Yes/ Yes
DACs: 192-24/ 96-24/ 192-24 (Burr-Brown)
Xover Bands: 9/ 8/ 8
Digital In: 6/ 7/ 7
Analog In: 2/ 3/ 3
Ext. Decod. In: 8/ 8/ 8
Front Panel In: Yes/ Yes/ No
Video Bandwith: 60Mhz/ 100mhz/ 100mhz
Video-Up Conv.: S-video/ Comp./ Comp.
On-Screen display: Yes/ Yes/ Yes
Audio delay: Yes/ Yes/ Yes
Pure Direct: Yes/ Yes/ Yes
Pre-Amp outs: Yes/ Yes/ Yes
Weigth (lbs): 27.8/ 29.7/ 37.5
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 786
Registered: Feb-04
Those numbers tell you close to nothing about the real performance. For ex the 650 outputs only 5*45W all channels driven (weak PSU). About audio quality they tell you nothing.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Argento

Post Number: 64
Registered: Apr-04
Landroval:

The chart tries to compare the functionality of each model, obviously not its performance since for that, of course, it is necessary to listen them.
This chart show me that the Yamaha almost has the same functionality that the 3805 and its price is of almost the half.

I agree, Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer, all inflate their power ratings, but I don't really worry about it. My previous Yamaha specified 5x70w (they would be surely 5x40 real) and I never needed to pass the half of the volumen.



 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 788
Registered: Feb-04
Your chart has some mistakes. These would be correct:

Auto room eq: No/ Yes/ Yes
DACs: 192-24/ 192-24/ 192-24 (Burr-Brown)
Digital In: 6/ 7/ 7 (+dlink)
Front Panel In: Yes/ Yes/ Yes
Video-Up Conv.: Comp./ Comp./ Comp.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 79
Registered: Sep-04
Beware of the feature set comparison. Every added feature is less money spent on the other parts of the unit. In theory therefore, two similarly priced units may have quite different sound quality because one is festooned with features but has a poor power supply whereas the other is a basic design with a beefed up power supply. With attention to detail and setup, the latter would probably sound better in most installations simply because it has better drive capabilities.

Regards,
Frank.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Argento

Post Number: 65
Registered: Apr-04
I think that finally I will take the Yamaha.
The Yamaha has the main functions that interest me and almost the same ones that the Denon and its price is of almost half of the 3805.
I will be able to use the saved money to buy a good stereo amp.
 

Silver Member
Username: Landroval

Post Number: 789
Registered: Feb-04
The stereo amp will help, but still you'll use the flat sounding and non musical pre of the Yamaha. Is it impossible to you to listen to different models?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Argento

Post Number: 66
Registered: Apr-04
Landroval:

Maybe don't use a stereo amp alone, I could use a pre or an integrated for music.

And yes, it's hard for me to get and try other models. It's for that reason that I selects these models.

 

Bronze Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 85
Registered: Sep-04
Alejandro

When you buy the stereo integrated amp, try to ensure it has a unity gain feature so it will act as a power amp to the processor. This means that when you want surround sound, you drive your DVD player via a digital interconnect to the processor.

However, for when you want to listen to stereo music, the DVD or separate CD player should be plugged directly into the stereo amp on another input (e.g CD or AUX). Then you will circumvent the Yamaha's preamp section and be using just the integrated for music which should give you a better result.

To summarise, if you use just one DVD player, plug the analogue outputs to the CD input of the integrated amp and the digital output to the Yamaha processor. Also have the processor main pre-outs plugged into another input on the stereo amp such as AUX (preferabnly with unity gain set on it). When you're using the system, if you want surround sound, switch the integrated to AUX and the processor to DVD and use the procesor as the master volume. If you want music or pure stereo, switch the integrated to CD and the processor to something else which is not connected to a source, then use the integrated amp's volume control as the master volume.

Regards,
Frank.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire UK

Post Number: 86
Registered: Sep-04
I forgot to say: Of course, if you wish to use a dedicated CD player, just plug that into the integrated amp's CD input directly. Use the CD player for stereo and the DVD player for movies/surround sound.

This is usually a better result from the music point of view, but it may impact the quality of the DVD player since there's less money to go into that.

Regards,
Frank.
...hoping this makes sense...
 

Restless
Unregistered guest
I will only say buy Marantz or HK !
 

Bronze Member
Username: Argento

Post Number: 67
Registered: Apr-04
Frank says:

"I forgot to say: Of course, if you wish to use a dedicated CD player, just plug that into the integrated amp's CD input directly. Use the CD player for stereo and the DVD player for movies/surround sound."

This is exactly what I plan to do.
The DVD connected to the receiver (for movies and multichannel) and the CD connected to the integrated amp or to a pre (for stereo music).

I think that is the best solution to integrate home theater with stereo music stereo.

Frank, thank you for your advice.






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