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Solo-x 18" for geo metro

 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 842
Registered: Oct-10
I stripped the car down, got the CLD and MLV installed, rear seat is out. I installed my Pioneer HU and MB Quart 6.5 comps. I am in the planning and research phase of my sub install now. I plan to put this solo-x 18 in a sealed box at first, due to the ease and simplicity of box build and the EBP of the sub being 68.54. An EBP of 50-90 can be used for either ported or sealed (under 50=sealed) and I think that it would sound ok. I am not going for any SPL comps, just a daily setup that sounds pretty good. I will be pushing power with an SAE 1200d after I upgrade my electrical appropriately. My questions are:

1) Pros and cons of sealed? Again, I am not going for spl comps. Strictly as SQ as I can get.

2) What is the resonant frequency of this tiny car? And does it even matter if I use a sealed box?

3) The kicker website recommends 6-12 cubes sealed for this beast, so would the size of the Geo's cabin affect the size of the box required to produce the desired frequencies?

Pics coming later today...
 

Gold Member
Username: Somedonniedude

Illinois Braaap MX

Post Number: 3270
Registered: May-07
Solo-x for sound quality? 1200 watts to a 5000w rms driver?

im confused...
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 843
Registered: Oct-10
I have this sub, and have no aspirations to compete in spl comps,so therefore will build the system to sound as good as it can. 5,000 wrms would be rediculous to try and squeeze out of a 1.0 liter 3-cylinder 2-door hatch and would not be that much louder than 1200 wrms. pics still coming soon...
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1632
Registered: May-09
That sub in that small car I guess that sealed will do fine as long as the box isn't too small and it peaks, use poly-fill to help avoid peaking.

But i guess you would do better with smaller subs in a ported box.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 844
Registered: Oct-10
Joe, what do you mean by "better"?
I will prolly put it in 10 cubes or so sealed.
I don't quite understand "peaking". Is that where it is really loud at a certain frequency?
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1633
Registered: May-09
Take a look:

Upload

The Fi Q 15 2.5 cubes @ 33Hz vs the Solo X sealed @10 cubes. both on 1200 W RMS.

As you can see on the same power you would be getting much more bass out of a 3 cubes enclosure.

Of course the X will obliterate the Q at 5k ported (on output).
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1634
Registered: May-09
And don't worry about the peaking, that happens in small enclosures with Qtc well above 0.7.

And yes sealed peaking will make a set of frequencies usually somewhere within the 50-100Hz range to play much louder than the rest resulting in an awful listening experience.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina America

Post Number: 14796
Registered: Dec-03
OK, the SOlo X is probably one of the WORST subs you could pick for a SQ install. It's purely a burping SPL targeted sub, and square subs have a high failure rate, and poor SQ as a rule, due to the drawbacks of a non-round cone. I've preached about that enough on this forum that a simple search should turn up a lot fo results.
The transfer function of a Metro is probably around 55Hz, and no, it won't matter with a sealed box, but if you want pure SQ, instead of going with sealed, especially with a Solobarik sub, consider building an Aperiodic enclosure instead. You'll lose about -3dB versus sealed, but aperiodic has MUCH better control over the driver, and masks harmonic distortion. I've sen a couple cars win SQ events in sanctioned competitions using L7 solobarics in AP enclosures.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 845
Registered: Oct-10
Thaks for the info guys. Joe, the yellow is the soloX?
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 846
Registered: Oct-10
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Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 847
Registered: Oct-10
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Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 848
Registered: Oct-10
I hate that I didn't take a pic when I had the seats and carpet out. I put CLD and MLV all under the carpet, took the carpet to a pressure washer and industrial cleaner. It turned out real nice. I also put the MLV all on my shock towers and wheel wells and rear tub. I still have a few areas to put the MLV, but the ride is soooo much quieter already. I'm gonna make another floorboard, I don't like how this one turned out. I am also going to put Herculiner on the floorboard. Will post pics of tweets and HU tomoro hopefully
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 849
Registered: Oct-10
Upload
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 850
Registered: Oct-10
Glass, I haven't thought of AP, mainly cuz I know little about it. I do know that this is a hatchback car, and as such, would need the filtered vent going outside of the car somehow. I just can't see this being done. would make for a good box though if I could figure out how...
 

Platinum Member
Username: Rovin

1 15 = 153 DBs ...Trinidad & T...

Post Number: 17320
Registered: Jul-05
nice to see some build pix here on E

i'm not familiar with those cars but it kinda looks like the old skool crx which was a good vehicle for spl

i seee not much sound deadener being used , i dont know if ur following the "10% is sufficient" guideline or on a tight budget but i'm not a believer of that "rule" at all , personally i like full coverage & a 2nd layer in troubled spots ...
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1642
Registered: May-09
The yellow is the X sealed, even in the 10 cubes you want will lack bottom end compared to ported performance on equal power.

A tight ported box can usually achieve low group delay and can approach sealed performance but with better bottom end.

Besides that the X does not belong in a SQ system.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 851
Registered: Oct-10
Rovin, I have read multiple reviews of CLD (the shiny aluminum "sound deadener") (Constrained Layer Dampener) and the general idea is to cover the middle 25% of a car's flat body panels in order to prevent vibration and resonace caused by sound or road vibrations. I feel like this is enough product to do the job, and any more would be a waste. I used off-brand 70-mil butyl rubber dampener wih 8-mil constraining layer. The CLD does very little to block sound. I then covered every sq" that I could with Mass Loaded Vinyl. This is true sound deadener and blocks road noise from the cabin, and blocks music noise from the fuzz. The mlv is 1/8" thick and weighs 1lb per sq". The black under the CLD is RUSTOLEUM spray-on rubber sound deadener. Prolly just a waste of money. Then the MLV on top of the CLD. Except on the door panels, I had to mount the MLV to the interior panel. I used vinyl cement as glue (HH-66). This stuff is HARD CORE! I am going to get some more just to have some on hand. sticks anything to anything! and I did most of this work in 100+ degrees weather.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina America

Post Number: 14800
Registered: Dec-03
The way to do an AP box in a hatch is to build a dual chambered box, with the large chamber containing the sub, firing into the forward, smaller chamber that holds the AP membrane which then fires into the cabin through that membrane. That's just one way to do it, though.. This way is an alternative to having the exterior port, with the membrane affixed directly to the face of the driver.

Anyway ywah I think I'd sell that Solo X and look for a more SQ oriented driver.. Something with a round cone, a much better BL curve, and a long, highly-linear excursion. The Fi Q, Alpine type X, and RE XXX are examples of this.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 852
Registered: Oct-10
Joe, I notice that the X has more output from ~10-28hz. Now I realize that 10hz is most likely imperceptible, but with almost 290 sq" of cone area, don't you think that such low-lows could be usable? And getting close to 30 hz is most certainly usable low-low frequency is it not?? And with a flat curve like it has, it would have smooth, predictable output characteristics and not be peeky. Although it does suffer on output in the most-used bass frequencies.

Joe, could you model the X sealed in 10 cubes vs. the X ported in 10 cubes @ 35 hz? Both 1200 wrms. That would be a cool matchup.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 853
Registered: Oct-10
Glass, I will do more research on the AP.

And everyone, PLEASE stop saying that the X is a waste of time and money and that I should get something else. I want to keep it
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina America

Post Number: 14805
Registered: Dec-03
No. 10Hz in your case is absolutely useless. If you're using a ported enclosure, you're going to need a brick wall high pass filter set at or just below the port's tuned frequency anyway, so you won't be producing ANYTHING below that point. Without that filter in place, the driver becomes very difficult to control, and will unload. At that point you'll be glad you have that Solo X, since it has a replaceable voice coil. You'll need it.

If you're thinking of a sealed box, then 10Hz still won't really matter, because a ported enclosure will reach lower frequencies than sealed, since a sealed box has a higher natural roll off. The only way to really foce a sealed sub to play lower is to feed it absurd amounts of power.

If you're looking at driver response, remember to take into consideration the BL curve of the driver, and the enclosure both, as well as cabin gain, and box impedance rise. If you're after SQ, stop worrying about loss of output between box orders and designs.. any box with adequate power and a quality sub will get more than loud enough for SQ purposes, and for daily driving. The only time output really matters is for SPL competitions on a meter.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 857
Registered: Oct-10
Points taken, Glass. You all have swayed my thinking to consider a ported enclosure. I am still indecisive, though. Glass, can I get your input for sealed vs. ported for this application? And also, I still can not figure how to do AP and still save space in a hatchback. Is there a page you could link?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina America

Post Number: 14807
Registered: Dec-03
Well, an AP box would take most of your hatch, so if you want to keep things smaller, may as well stick to sealed or ported. personally, I like ported boxes as long as they are tuned low. I don't like them to be boomy or overly warm.. I want them tight and snappy and deep, so I aim for the 28-31Hz range for a tuned port, depending on the driver and size. Sealed is fine if you want a smoother sound, and aren't looking for a kick in the parts sort of response from the box. A lot depends on what you listen to..

Personally, I'd try a ported enclosure. If it's too much, or you just don't like the sound of it, build a sealed box to replace it. Unless you plan to use an RTA to get a perfectly flat C-weighted sound curve (which most people don't like the sound of anyway.. no bass, lifeless treble, etc) using parametric or 1/3 octave EQs, I'd just go with the ported box. ported work well with cabin gain in a car to be a bit more punchy, whereas in a home, a ported box actually yields a more "flat" response, due to having a much larger room and far more air space.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 859
Registered: Oct-10
Ported definately sounds like the way to go now, but y'all have swayed me from another decision...I like the idea of more bass with less weight and less space. I am considering a single 12" ported I know...

So....without creating a new thread, What are some good options to take 1000+ wrms daily ported in a small hatchback? I can make the box as big as necessary for a single 12". I was thinking either Fi Q or SSA XCON. I am not trying to break the bank and will most likely buy used. 200$ budget for sub.

I want the soloX for my HT
 

Gold Member
Username: Somedonniedude

Illinois Braaap MX

Post Number: 3271
Registered: May-07
just build a quick box for the soloX, get it out of your system, then sell that fugger lol. With the funding's you could buy a nice woofer for your car and HT.

What does that car have for electrical? is it gonna support 1kw+?
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1645
Registered: May-09
A 15" Fi SSD can take 1000+ will work nice on a 3.5 cubes box @33Hz is around 200 new, a Q 15" can be done if you are upgrading the amp.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina America

Post Number: 14812
Registered: Dec-03
for a single ported 12", you'll need a box that's about 2cu ft of internal volume, after adding port and driver displacement. 3/4" MDF, 1.5" MDF for the front baffle supporting the sub. 4" ID port.

weight comes with subs. unless you plan to use an IB setup for a sub (no box, which won't work with a hatch back) you need a box, and a fairly heavy one to reduce resonance, if you want it to sound decent.

you're also going to need to consider a high output alternator for that Geo. I used to have a system in a Festiva years ago, and moved to a 150A alternator, to support a system that was using two class AB amps. 125W x 2ch, and 160W x 2ch. If you want to drive a 1Kw amp for the sub, plus an amp for the rest of the sytem, you'll need enough current from the alternator to run the car, the audio system, and have enough reserve left to recharge your car battery(ies)
you can't get around this fact by using more batteries, or capacitors.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 863
Registered: Oct-10
The car has a 55 amp alternator. I was planning on taking the alt to a shop and seeing how many amps they could bump it up to. Also going to put a DieHard batt in the back to supplement my YellowTop under the hood. I'm going to run the door speakers from my HU for now, money got real tight. That should be sufficient for what I want. Especially if I don't play the sub for hours on end.

I was thinking of other sub options, and I am rolling around the idea of 4 ported SA-8" v.2...opinions on this???

Either way, I will probably have to wait a couple months, cuz tuition got me zapped.
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1648
Registered: May-09
Very expensive and you have to put a lot of power to them (2K on rated), if installing on a reg cab I understand since there is no space, in your case a single high quality 15 is what I'd do. A single sub on 1K will be easy on your electrical, also amps like audioque, crescendo or for cheap MBquart do not get hot, efficiency is likely the reason. That IMO is the way to go when you don't want to spend on electrical, just a good battery and maybe modding your alt will be enough.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 864
Registered: Oct-10
a single 15 does sound good also. Surely1200wrms would wake those 4 8"s up. I will be doing much research this month
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