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What's better than JL Audion Subs.

 

Silver Member
Username: Jaackdeth

United States

Post Number: 902
Registered: Sep-04
I looking for some 12" subs, I posted before on this but I would like some opinions on some subs that are better than the JL's, I once had a pair of RE XXX 12" and had to sell them (stupid I know) but both are around the same price! Is there anything out there that can give me some bang, but maybe a tad cheaper, I guess price range would be around 7-800 for both. Thanks
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 626
Registered: Oct-10
Most brands ARE better than JL so you dont have to worry about it. Look at non mainstream brands.

The <2006> 2005 version, by large measures. My last sub was the 2005 RE XXX 12 and it sounded cleaner and louder than any Alpine, JL, Kenwood, Rockford, MTX, ETC. You shouldn't have sold them. Those were the best subs you could buy (the < 2006 anyways)

JL is only good for their W6, it sounds great. If you were buying W7 level than you might as well get:

digital designs
Fi
DC
Ascendant
Sound Solutions
Audioque

Dont buy:

Kicker
JL
MTX
Alpine
Kenwood
RF
ETC

These are brands that mark up the price because you pay for their advertising budgets, which are huge compared to smaller companies. They make decent subs but nothing that can compare to a non mainstream. The highest power handling they'd sell is what, a 1000W sub (CVX, TYPE-R), solo-X is mad expensive. Your decision should be based upon how good the customer service is because these subs can be similiar in performance & reliability. If I were you I would be buying 2 Fi SSD 12's or Digital Designs 2512's or 3512's or Fi Q's or Ascendant Havocs, basically a 1000W RMS rated subwoofer that is known to handle a 1500W rated amp.

If an amp is rated at 1500W @ 1 ohm and you think it will actually put out 1500W and be at 1 ohm than you are mistaken. Any time a sub is moving the amp is seeing different ohm loads, the only time it would be at 1 ohm is when they aren't moving. It depends on the box, the frequency being played. This is called box rise. This is why people can wire to 0.5 ohm and not have a problem because the amp is actually hovering around 1.5-2.5 ohms while the sub is moving. Amps are also not 100% efficient. DC audio rates their amps at 90% efficient @ 4 ohms. The lower the ohm, the less efficient the amp. It could drop to 80% @ 1 ohm. So if you had a 2000W amp with a 90% efficiency ratnig than you would take 2000 and multiply it by 0.9, where it would be more like 1800W and since there is box rise that 1800W @ 1 ohm rated would be more like 1500W @ 1.5 ohms, 1000W @ 2 ohms, 500W @ 4 ohms (all @ 14.4 volts). This means even though the amp is rated for 2000W, the sub(s) will only ever see about 1000-1500 actual watts. This is why many people say you can over power a sub with an amp that seems like it'd be too much power. Power isn't what kills a speaker, ever. Distortion kills a speaker. Clean power is had from strong voltage & batts that can sustain the battery. You could have 3000 watts on a 1000W rated sub, with clean voltage, it shouldn't cause a problem when the gains on the amp are set properly. If you can't set the gains, this is extremely important that you get someone who knows how. This is why Steve Meade is selling his SMD DD-1 distortion detector like hot cakes. It tells you what to set your gains to so that you don't get a clipped signal. Of course, the gains would be set lower on the 3k amp than with a 1k amp when powering a 1k sub, and it may get hot, smelly, maybe even reach mechanical excursion but it shouldn't just break apart with clean power. This is why many people run 3k to a 1k rated Audioque HDC3 w/aluminum coils instead of copper coils.

I just got 2 DC Level 3 18's for $640 total and I live in freaking Canada. You should have zero problem getting 2 12's that can handle a lot of power for that price. JL is overpriced. They aren't bad subs, though. You don't want JL. You don't want JL. You don't want JL.

Do your electrical first. Buy an alt, get the big 3 done, get an alternator and THEN start thinking about going over 500W per sub, otherwise you'll fry either the amp or alternator or kill the batts or all 3. get (2) Dual 1 ohm coils so you can run an amp at either 1 or 4 ohms and just do 4 ohms until you can get the electrical done.

I believe you had 2 RF 12's and you could fit 4 cubes @ 35 hz, 2 1500's. What happened there? Want different coils?

I would strap those amps and use them at 2 ohms for 3000w, if possible. This would require about a 250A alt and 2 group 31 batts, 0 gauge and the big 3. It would slam haarrrrd.
 

Silver Member
Username: Jaackdeth

United States

Post Number: 903
Registered: Sep-04
That's quite a write up, thanks for taking the time, it's appreciated!
I didn't have the RF's must be thinking of someone else.
Yea like a lot of us we need the money from time to time, and the audio equipment seems to take the fall every time, at least in my case.
Those XXX'x were the best subs I have ever owned, and at the time needed the money, and they went!
Hard to find now, and costly. I have a 250 alternator on, and the big 3 with 0 gauge running, so I am good there, I don't have an extra Battery though. I'll check out those DC's. Are their amps any good and do they have a price list, was on the website but didn't see any prices. Thanks again
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina America

Post Number: 14723
Registered: Dec-03
I like Fi subs, myself. www.ficaraudio.com
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 628
Registered: Oct-10
nope that was Bmkmgamer13 with the RF's.

I sold my unworking 05 xxx 12 for $250 a couple months ago. the guy drove 2 hours to pick it up, must have wanted one bad.

check out hawker (brand) obyssey (model) 2150 (specific model) for batteries. supposedly are the best for car audio.

DC does pricing by dealers (you'd have to call one). i asked for a price on a DC 2k last week and it was $625 all inclusive, remember I live in Canada and can pay like +$100 for border fees and shipping. Their amps aren't just good, they're great. Most amps you'll see have an 85% efficiency rating @ 4 ohms, DC rates their amps at "over 90%". They are on fire right now. I got super awesome customer service from my DC dealer.

If used, look local. You can't beat saving money from not having to ship things, you don't have to worry about scammers or UPS smashing your gear. Always get shipping insurance.

New, buy what's cheaper. You atleast get warranty. DC is expensive. AQ is budget/competition/daily stuff with great customer service. You won't see a bad review anywhere. People are in love with their AQ SDC-2.5 15's, saying they slam highs and get super low. People say AQ is like a cheaper Digital Designs (expensive).

I should have mentioned that Audioque changed their name to something like soundqubed... horrible name IMO lol.

You have strong electrical minus the batts. I wouldn't use more than a 3500W @ 1 ohm rated amp with 250A. There are AQ 3500d.1's on caco for $600 shipped. thats a great price considering they're like 750-800 new. It actually is rated for 4300W @ 1 ohm, *.85% efficiency - 325W for box rise = 3330W/14.4 volts = 231.25 amps needed. You're in the clear for a 3500.1, it's not like it'd be making power the whole time you listen.
 

Silver Member
Username: Jaackdeth

United States

Post Number: 904
Registered: Sep-04
Thanks a lot guys, something to do some homework over, and thanks LH for the detailed write up, appreciated.

Glass, Which Fi's do you think are good, in case I go that route. Thanks again.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 629
Registered: Oct-10
The SSD's are their entry line but are basically not really an entry level subwoofer. It's 1000W RMS. The Q is 1500W RMS and will have the nod to sound quality (meaning transient response and detailedness, a more "neutral" sound). The BL is the half-SQ half-ground pounder model, not quite as "bad" sounding as a BTL. The BTL N2 is a sub that gets loud and has very strong lows, more so than the Q or BL or SSD. The SP4 is the new ground pounder that moves a lot of air. Keep in mind that loudness doesn't exactly mean air movement. The sub makes sound (at like 40 Hz+). Id give the nod to the SP4 for music and the nod to the BTL for numbers.

The N3 is for SPL and CAN be used in a daily set up (reference: don hebigs' blazer w/4 n3 15's on 11-12k).

For 3500W you could do Q's with the upgrades and it would be great/reliable, don't have quite the power for the btl or sp4. going cheaper, just buy the SSD, it should be on par with the old version of the Q that used to be 1000W RMS.

Honestly, none of these loud groundpounder subs sound bad. they are loud with a flair of sound quality. the stronger the motor, the more forcefull those lows will be, among other factors/variables, but this is why the N2 crushes lows and remains loud up top.
 

Silver Member
Username: Jaackdeth

United States

Post Number: 905
Registered: Sep-04
Thanks man!
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1584
Registered: May-09
If you liked the XXX you will love the SP4, everything but the price that is, to me the SSD is just outstanding for the price ($200) the price of a new model Alpine type R. The BTLs are competition aimed stuff.
 

Silver Member
Username: Jaackdeth

United States

Post Number: 906
Registered: Sep-04
Hi Joe, are the Q's the same way, I want some serious power back in the old explorer, but have another question what would be a good match in an amp to handle a couple of 12" BTL's or Q's? Thanks Oh and what are some good options with those subs? I see there are add ons.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 630
Registered: Oct-10
If getting a 270 bolt on alt, which is about the biggest you could get as a bolt on, itd handle 3-4k rms. ie a 3500w amp. If going more than 3.5-4k than get 2 270 amp alts and a 7k amp. basically a 3500 on each btl or sp4. If one alt get a 3500w amp and 2 Q with the bp option. It explains options on their site under the tech tab.
 

Silver Member
Username: Jaackdeth

United States

Post Number: 907
Registered: Sep-04
Where are some good spots for the 270amp? I have a 1998 Explorer with the 5.0 liter, thanks.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina America

Post Number: 14727
Registered: Dec-03
yeah the Fi Q or SSD. I use an Fi Q15, myself and absolutely love it. I feed it 1500WRMS from an Orion 2250SX bridged mono @ 4 ohms @ 14.4VDC
 

Silver Member
Username: Jaackdeth

United States

Post Number: 908
Registered: Sep-04
What do you think about 2 12's of the Q and what would be a good amp to run with it? Thanks all for the help. Oh and are at AQ subs any good?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina America

Post Number: 14729
Registered: Dec-03
a pair of Q12s would be terrific. Plenty of videos of 2 Fi Q12s in cars on youtube.

Look at a Sundown Audio or Audioque mono amp. depending on your budget and enclosure choice (I'd use a ported box myself) the 1200 or 2500 watt model.
 

Silver Member
Username: Jaackdeth

United States

Post Number: 909
Registered: Sep-04
Sounds good, thanks Glass!
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1588
Registered: May-09
You could setup 2 Qs with a 3.5K amp with no issues if your electrical can support it.
 

Silver Member
Username: Jaackdeth

United States

Post Number: 910
Registered: Sep-04
Thanks Guys!!
 

Silver Member
Username: Jaackdeth

United States

Post Number: 911
Registered: Sep-04
Just to throw this out there, are the RE amps that are made now any good? The SoundSream? And others you can think of that are still good? Thanks
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