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Autotek M12 4th order is it safe?

 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 552
Registered: Oct-10
I'm buying 8, they're only $45 on audiosavings with free shipping (drop off in US/pick up from Canada). I've been playing with designs for my Alero behind the front seats.

I just sent this message to Autotek on Facebook:

I asked a local audio shop guy about a 4th order wall for 8 M12's. He told me it'd fry the coils and to ask if you do or dont recommend bandpass (2 ported @ 45hz, 1 sealed/each/each). Like this, behind the front seats (the blue line is plexi so you look back and see the surrounds, port above the head rests) https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/534416_10150987306875786_60 0705785_128...30585_1820650142_n.jpg

he recommended this instead

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/392488_10150987973745786_60 0705785_12832273_110057267_n.jpg

Both are cool, but I really wanted that 4th order wall. The M12 plots nicely from 25-70 Hz in about 2 ported/1 sealed @ 45 Hz, nearly flat.

I don't know what to do anymore. Are these safe for a 4th order? If theyre designed for ported OR sealed than why would both be bad?

The box would cost $500-$600 and it would be about 16 cubes ported/20 cubes 4th order (16 p/1 s). nice design this guy drew up, really cool looking. I still wanted that 4th order wall because I thought it'd be safer for the subs because they'd still have loading below the tune. He said he could do it but it might fry the coils, saying that the bandpasses of the 90's weren't good or something. It seemed he was going to "guesstimate" the port area. I was like um, bad idea dude. he then said i could port towards the floor at that point i was like w.t.f. no. i can send him my visonik 1500w to get fixed. im stuck between what i think is bad advice and what im pretty sure i wont be able to accomplish on my own. my skills are screwy. thanks guys.

specs:
qts .734
9mm xmax
spl 83.2 1w1m
fs (which they called FO) 23.72 hz
vas 98.15L

I also got to listen to a ported 12" on 4k in a golf hatch. Holy christ that thing slammed.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 553
Registered: Oct-10
after talking with a pro/judge ive decided to just do simple ported wall with two stacks of 4 12's wide with the port on top. i didnt know that bandpasses were "distortion monsters".
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 554
Registered: Oct-10
now i need an amp. the m12's are 500w rms each and theyre 2.5" coils. im not sure if theyll take 500w so i dont mind using 2000-4000w, half power is fine for peace of mind, apparently if i dont make the box just right it wont let the amp produce the power.

im looking at cheap amps and from the reviews all of these "2000 rms x 1 channel" cheapo amps they dont put out 2k, more like 1k. i have more than enough alt & batt to back it up.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/viewcat.php?category_id=23&f_164_min=1501&f_164_m ax=0&sort_order=price_asc

i dont want a cheapo obviously.

$100 per 1000w would be cool.

used is fine, i think? atleast cheaper.

also, im preeeeetty sure all 8 (Dual 4) would wire into 1 ohm because:

1 ohm = d2
2 ohm = d4
2 d2 = 2 ohm
2 d4 = 1 ohm
therefore... 4 d4 = 2 ohm and 8 d4 = 1 ohm.

totally not sure on that.
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1475
Registered: May-09
For new try two of these:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_44471_MB-Quart-ONX1.2000D.html

These amps stay cool and do rated like the AQs.

The M12D4s are built for sealed.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 555
Registered: Oct-10
Nice amp! However I need either 2 amps that are 2k @ 2 ohms or 1 amp at 1 ohm, right? 4 d4 = 2 ohms and 8 = 1 ohm.

The M12 manual says ported or sealed, 1.8 @ 37/F3 32 is what they called optimal/sq.

I made an offer on Crossfire C5 12's because they look a lot better, hopefully sonic will take it and then Id get them in D2 and get the two ONYX amps.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_36233_Crossfire-C5-12D4.html

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_36232_Crossfire-C5-12D2.html
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1478
Registered: May-09
I do realize that but true 4K RMS is hard to get for the price new. You may try used though.

Also those 12" crossfires are better obviously but I really don't know where's the space to put 8 and how much $$$ it will be.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 556
Registered: Oct-10
Sonic will give me the C5's for something like $79 each (list price 169.95) and I replied "what if I slap huge sonic electronix decals on the sides of my car?". Great price though, which is after the coupon code. I suppose it's for haggle purposes.

If I get the Autoteks I'll just get one ONYX and power them at "half" RMS. I doubt theyll take 500w daily but you never know, youd think maxxsonics would know what theyre doing. im sending my amp to get fixed tomorrow, free diagnostic anyways.

Lots of space.. don't worry about that. 20 cubes easy. I'm walling it with two stacks of 4 with the port on top. Not to mention lots of port area.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina America

Post Number: 14674
Registered: Dec-03
a bandpass enclosure typically masks distortion, but they are one-note wonders if you're going for peak gain from the enclosure. To be honest, they sound awful.
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1479
Registered: May-09
Alpine 1243 red a 4th 2:1 1.75 sealed Ported @38Hz (on red), Ported 2 cu.ft @33Hz (on orange) both after standard cabin gain.

Upload

Myself, I will be glad with ported.

Still I can fix the 4th by lowering the ratio but then my gain is gone and prob I have wasted space.
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1480
Registered: May-09
LH here is a comparison sealed (1 cu.ft) vs ported (1.8@37) for the Autotek m12d4 before cabin gain:

Upload

Both are recommended settings by Autotek.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 557
Registered: Oct-10
I took the amp in to the shop today. They told me it was fried pretty bad and it would be around $300 to fix. I paid $250 for it in 2007, so I wrote down "I'll pay only up to $100".

I'm losing interest in getting them to build the wall, although I know their wood work is top notch (used to work with them), because I was talking to two shop dudes (not the owner) about sub wiring. I told them "if 4 D4's wire into 2 ohms than 8 will wire into 1 ohm". They disagreed and said it'd wire into 2 ohms and that I'd need 2 amps @ 2 ohms. I was like, no, if (by diagram):

1 D2 = 1
2 D2 = 2
4 D2 = 1

1 D4 = 2
2 D4 = 1
4 D4 = 2

... than 8 D2 = 2 and 8 D4 = 1, and I did tell them I wanted 1 ohm.

They started talking about 8 ohms into something into something then double something something. I was like whaaaattt? Why can't you just remember that D2 = 1 and D4 = 2 and double from there?

They ended up googling it. I was like, Jesus Christ, should they build this thing? How hard could it possibly be? I'll make a template out of cardboard tomorrow.

That orange line is freaking awesome. They're discontinued on sonic. $134.95/pair on audiosavings.

Could you do the M12 after cabin gain? 50 Hz... so peaky. No idea how much cabin gain would flatten it out. It would give me a good idea about other set ups & cabin gain, too. Maybe combine the orange line?

I'm taking out the panelling and back seats tomorrow.

Thanks, Joe.

The thing will be right to the floor, where the back-seat passengers legs would go because that way the stacks (25"-ish) would end at the seat height (not including the head rest), and I'd remove the head rests.
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1481
Registered: May-09
LOL, if you don't understand impedance certainly you can't repair an amp, the only thing that can occur to me is that they send it to other guy and get a cut, if you have a box design I think anyone with woodworking experience can do it.

Yea, those are on the way out the new ones are 1K RMS

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_45521_Alpine-SWR-12D4.html

Here is the response for the M12D4:

Upload

Yellow @30Hz green@37Hz both at 1.8 cubes cabin gain factored in, looks kind of crappy, still it will hit though.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 558
Registered: Oct-10
I was browsing through cheap 15's and I came across a Boss 1500W RMS. $825 for 6 on sonic and $420 for 6 on audiosavings.
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1483
Registered: May-09
Don't know if I'd mess with any of those brands but you do some tests on them, bear in mind though that is displacement not radiating surface alone that get you loud.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 559
Registered: Oct-10
If you mean xmax & motor force, that's why I want the Crossfire C5, it has about 21mm.
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1488
Registered: May-09
If you are aiming at upper 140s or lower 150s it can be done on two 12s, the right ones..def high displacement, the right box also.. just ported.. if you want more probably a very special 4th high chamber size ratio or probably a 6th. Very hard designs though. Aligned on instruments for sure.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 560
Registered: Oct-10
I don't think 2 great 12's would feel the same as 8 decent 12s.

Today my boss paid me $600 too much

I got some cardboard to make a template.

I can get the C5s for 90.99 each. Grand total is $1030.

Box questions... what if I can't put a screw in, do I just crazy-glue it? Should I bolt it in? These would weigh only 108 LBS.

Would it need a double or tripple baffle?

Should I be using 2 2000W amps or 1 4000W amps?
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1491
Registered: May-09
Well who knows but certainly 8 subs will look cool for sure.

Those are not real heavy subs, might need to take a look at the box design, usually a double baffle with crossbraces is enough.

Regarding the amps, use whatever you can get for the least moneys but from a good manufacturer and new is much better unless it has been professionally refurbished like db-r electronics stuff.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 563
Registered: Oct-10
I'm torn between the M12 and C5. The C5 has about 10mm more xmax and it looks beefier. The grand total for 8 M12's is $600 and I can probably get them for cheaper if I ask sonic to match audiosavings' price. 4 of them across would be 49.5" and that's exactly how much there is between the door panels and I'm not sure if I want to rip those out.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 564
Registered: Oct-10
uh muh fugin gad.

C5 doesn't have twice the xmax, I read it wrong "•21mm Peak-to-peak excursion".

... so they both have like 10mm. Well, shiz, I should get those Autoteks.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 565
Registered: Oct-10
On top is the Autotek, both in 2.25 @ 35 and the second plot is 2.5 @ 30.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/542445_10151002922020786_60 0705785_12886899_730434221_n.jpg
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 566
Registered: Oct-10
Has anyone ever done a ported IB?
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 567
Registered: Oct-10
3 @ 30/M12 & C5.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/582392_10151002939695786_1990384342_n.jpg
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1496
Registered: May-09
I couldn't get a full set of specs for the C5, soo not much I can say except that the M12s will hit but long term reliability not really sure.. I've seen other subs from them and I was not really impressed by their looks.. you are not standing to loose too much either.. I'd probably get one and see what it can do.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 568
Registered: Oct-10
C5
VAS 2.4
QTS .45
FS 30

will be using half power anyways.

The wall should come out to about 2.5 cubic feet per.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 569
Registered: Oct-10
The box that I could realistically build, without technical problems, is 49.5 x 26.5 x 23, 1.8 cubes per sub, then I'd build the port on top unconventionally, I'm thinking kerfed fiberglass. I can't fit 26.5" high closer to the back so there would be a curve with the roof. i hate measuring curves. i have a feeling im going to spend a lot on wood. box sitting on carpet over rubber matting over metal, floor filled in with foam/wood on top and then the sides of the box would sit on it. how does that sound? when the console lid opens and gets in the way theres still 1" clearance from box to lid and seat. 26.5" is right at the top of the head rests. It's the perfect box. How would I go about securing that if I weren't going to bolt it? heavy duty straps?
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1500
Registered: May-09
With the box size you mention, I could get about 13 cubes net with a 12.4 sq.in per cube port tuned to 37Hz) and I used 0.05 cubes displacement for each of the eight m12s, the 8 drivers barely fit on the 49.5 x 26.5 surface. If you are running the port partially external then maybe above 13 cubes.

It sounds to me like a lot of work to me but I am not doing it .
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 571
Registered: Oct-10
I got 14.4, double baffle, .08 for subs displacement, adding .08 for every motor cut out (which makes up for the displacement). Sonic emailed me and said they were out of stock of Autoteks. They suggested Power Acoustik P1 12's for 55. i dont even know how to build the floor up, all i can think of is foam. this is becoming a headache. ill do a back seat box instead with different size subs.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 572
Registered: Oct-10
outside 48 x 23.5 x 27
port 3.5 x 46.5
13.5" port per cube
12 @ 34

... 2 18's?
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1501
Registered: May-09
About right 2 18" (or 3 15"), port area for average displacement subs, although you can't really do a port like that H/W ratio must be kept 9:1, this is easily fixed.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 573
Registered: Oct-10
2 Obsidian 18" D4 600W RMS $189 ($378+)
2.5" VC
20mm xmax

Done.

... they're out of stock though. FML.

In the middle of the car, after the box height (with 3.5 x 46.5 port) is 7" to the roof. Without the port, the sealed portion would be 22.75" height/outside or 11.25" to the middle roof.

I was told to make the port the width of the box. Now I have to angle it?
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1502
Registered: May-09
Those lean low, one surprising thing is that sensitivity is the same for 15s and 18s, lower BL on the 18s.... and looks like you won't be needing much amp after all, those should take about 850-900 each without any trouble so a single 2k amp will take care of it. Damn subs are really on demand right now.

I've never done a box with a 13:1 area form factor, I was always curious if design rules go too far in some cases. The rationale is friction which increases with a larger contact surface, a square port having the least (after a round port) for a given cross-sectional area.

Also if you are talking about a turn corner.. the port does not turn, doesn't go near the back wall so if I understood right.. no.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina America

Post Number: 14681
Registered: Dec-03
The lower BL is for the same reason as the lower Fs on a larger sub. Move moving mass. The sensitivity would be similar since both probably use the same motor structure and magnet, though.

On the ports, if you do go with a slot port, and you do have a turn or bend, try to have it kerfed. I prefer round ports with chamfered edges or flares, but I'm more of a SQ guy. SPL doesn't do anything for me.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 574
Registered: Oct-10
I meant the port. Too tired to think atm. No, the port wouldn't turn. Box depth is pretty much port depth.

I'm going the simple route, slot port on top.

I could have the port kerfed. So I should be using a more square port? Sure, I could make it go higher. This will help get it into the fuxing car. I'll build the port inside and leave the baffle off till it's on. That way I can screw it in without folding myself into weird places.
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1505
Registered: May-09
So why should I get the 18 (red 6@32) instead of the 15 (yellow 3.75@32) standard cabin gain accounted for:

Upload

The 18 just seem to dump more energy into the subsonic region but will not be louder to the ear. Neither it seems a very loud setup overall. Just crazy low.

If I am undersranding right this is about what you intend to do, I just changed the symmetry of the port a bit but it can be done in a number of different ways.

Upload

Fb = 34 Hz
Vb = 11.7 ft^3

External Height = 27 in
External Width = 48 in
External Depth = 23.5 in

Port Width = 40 in
Port Height = 4 1/4 in

That sort of port type tend to flex badly so a center brace front to back would be useful, just rounding the edges of both port ends would be enough as long as port area allows for lower airspeed.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina America

Post Number: 14686
Registered: Dec-03
The 18 should just have more output at lower frequencies. That's all. It'll move more air.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 575
Registered: Oct-10
Hell who listens to less than 25 Hz.

Not up fire port, the box height after port is 27" so port forward.

It's okay, they don't ship to Canada. I asked why.

It's hard enough finding something local.
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1507
Registered: May-09
You don't listen but can feel the blow below 25 Hz.. lol.. important to some! Ok port/subs front when you find what are you going to use.

Obsidians are nice but there are others.. so.. nevermind.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 576
Registered: Oct-10
Obsidian doesn't ship to Canada.

They told me twice in an email "if you don't use our recommendations than you'll have poor performance.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 577
Registered: Oct-10
Sonic quoted me 129.99 each for C5's and now they're saying $135 and they "don't group coupons and the lower price was a coupon". The total came to $1400, I can't afford that, which is why I was going with $378 18's. I need to find 2 local 18's or something. That way I could make a box and put it in through the door. It seems easiest, but I would love to do a proper wall too. If I did I'd be looking at 2 21 wardens. I should find a local pro to build the wall.
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1508
Registered: May-09
Wardens are sick expensive.. I bet 4 type R 12s on a hifonics brutus 2400 walled off would be unbearable (literally) on that car.. that's an 8 cubes box. Im sure that gear is readily available just about anywhere locally.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Rovin

1 15 = 153 DBs ...Trinidad & T...

Post Number: 17297
Registered: Jul-05
^^ that combo is probably 1 of the best bang for buck contenders ...
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 578
Registered: Oct-10
I've never liked type R's and I've heard them in over 10 different set ups locally. Nobody did them justice lol. I did see a guy put a KX or kicker-whatever 2400.1 or .2 on each (of two subs) and they blew pretty quick lol.

Still 12 @ 34 Hz.

I can do 8 10's in 1.5 or 6 12's in 2 or 2 18's in 6. I'll keep my eyes open for something local (most likely 2 18's for $200 each). Something like HDC3's or HD's MUST be around here!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina America

Post Number: 14690
Registered: Dec-03
I really don't see why uou need more than one or two subs, myself, and you're better off spending your money on fewer, higher quality drivers, as opposed to a greater number of cheaper subs.
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1511
Registered: May-09
The setup above was not my point, is just a bunch of decent gear you can get for cheap in some grey market over there.. gets the problem solved...like today..but yeah if you want something special do more homework and see what you can come up with.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 579
Registered: Oct-10
I'm looking at Fi SSD 18's now, starting at $254, flatwind $15 (dunno what that is), cooling (30, dunno if i need it), internal lead (25). I'll use a good 2K amp, 1 batt, 200ish alt or whatever I need. 12 cubes @ 34 Hz.

Joe, could you model these 2 18's in 12 @ 34 after cabin gain? I'd like to see what the price difference is. The BL with options comes to $414.

SSD 18
FS 29.6
QTS .41
SPL 91.4
1000W RMS
XMAX 20mm
VAS 7.11237388 cubic feet

BL 18
1500W RMS
XMAX 18mm
QTS .3
FS 33.2
SPL 94.1
VAS 6.39195468 cubic feet
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 580
Registered: Oct-10
Box has changed to port on the drivers side, vertical. I keep reading that it meters louder. I got 13 cubes NET @ 32.75 Hz w/ 2 18's. I could also do 8 10's or 6 12's or 4 15's (in 3-3.25 cuft).
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1517
Registered: May-09
Here is your previous request (12@34):

Upload

As always the BL(yellow) can't take advantage of it's higher sensitivity at lower frequencies so is more suited as a SPL driver tuned higher.

On your second post, well port on the driver's side, the driver gets to predominantly listen the output of the port..

Lastly bear in mind that more drivers more $$ 4 15s on 13 cubes depends on the drivers..
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 581
Registered: Oct-10
not really enough space for 4 15's.

2 ssd 18's is looking great, strong 30-40 street bass. i may not have to listen directly to the port because of the head rest. If I don't like it I can flip it around. The box is going to just barely fit through the back door, it's 24 x 49.5 x 27 outside and the top front of the box will just barely be grazing the top of the seats. I'll mount the 18s low so they have good clearance/13 net @ 33 hz. The port ratio is now 1:4.08 instead of 1:13.28. im probably far underestimating how sweet this will be.

I loooove the look of 8 10's, just saying, 3 on bottom, 2 in middle, 3 on top in a diamond type shape, and it'd fit with the drivers side port. Next time ;).
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1523
Registered: May-09
Like this?

Upload

A little paranoid bracing..lol
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 582
Registered: Oct-10
Pretty much. 6.25" port and1.5" baffle.

Net it was 13.1, and a 2x4 that is 2x4x21.75 (front to back) takes up .1 cuft so I was happy about that. Maybe 3 threaded rods for the 3 dimensions. If I did a rod from left to right in the pic, would the rod go through the port or would it stop at the inner port wall?

I don't think I need the flatwind coil or cooling option, just the stitched lead. I'm trying to spend as little as possible but I HATE non-stitched leads, the lead option is $25, bringing it to $558 Amurc'n. They must have a lot of email traffic because I emailed them last month with no reply. How the hell do I buy these things?

I measured 27 x 24 for my car door again. It'll barely fit!
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 583
Registered: Oct-10
Why isn't it worse for the port to be aimed at the seat?

I ought to angle it with the seats.

I could even leave the baffle off, make it 24", then put the baffle on in the car and have it at outside 25.5", angled with the seats.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Columbia, South Carolina America

Post Number: 14700
Registered: Dec-03
If you're putting the box against the back seats, don't fire the port into the seats. you don't want to obstruct the port. If you have the port pressed against the seat, you may as well jsut build a too-large leaky sealed box. It'll have the same effect.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 584
Registered: Oct-10
I'm trying to buy a 02 Focus ZX5 for 2G but my dad is being a d!ck. I bought my Alero, rather he bought it without telling me and without permission to use the $4000 I got from theft insurance but it's in his name and he thinks he can say no because of that. I looked at the car yesterday. It's sweet. I'm trying to get an insurance quote and my dads just... a d!ck.
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1538
Registered: May-09
Well is definitely better to handle your bucks on your own.. that's for sure... So your wall project didn't do it for you after all??
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 585
Registered: Oct-10
My sister needs her own car so I might sell her the Alero, she moved back in. I'm trying to get a $1000 loan to buy the Focus. The wall is still on... just it'll be more space, deeper box, lower tune, more port area and easier to get in the car... hopefully. My parents may not have $1000 though :-\.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 586
Registered: Oct-10
I drew up two boxes for 2 18's (16 @ 28.9) and 12 12's (24 @ 34.9). I don't know if it can fit 43.5" depth or 28" height or 39" wide.... but 16 cuft would be ill with 2 SSD 18's @ 28.9 Hz. Lots of port (16" per cube) but the port is like 39" long.
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1541
Registered: May-09
12 12"s sounds sick if doable ... need to setup a nice business though.. or win the state lottery. So let's see what you come up with LH.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 587
Registered: Oct-10
Again this is becoming a headache and I'm running into road block after road block

My mom upped my phone plan today and is making me split the internet bill with her and my sister from now on. My phone bill was over double this month and the internet bill was over 5 times the base price. She might put the Alero in my name so I pay all of my insurance (she pays half) and definetly when I'm 25 (because insurance magically gets cheaper for 25 y.o's).

I got an insurance quote for the Focus today - $700 more than the Alero - why? because it's F'ing RED and I'm not yet 25 (which would bring it down by ~$450). I'm 25 in 5 months -_-. I asked them about taking out the back seat and insuring a stereo - it was wayyyyy more, not just because of the stereo but because when the back seat comes out it's then considered "sporty". Again, for the Alero, if I were to take out the back seat and try to get it insured with a wall in the back it would be even more simply because the back seat is removed. More than I can even afford and I'm only paying half of my insurance.

So I had a long talk with my mom (who is smart as heck) about what I can realistically afford and she said I might as well buy one subwoofer for the trunk. No Focus, no wall, no 2 18's atleast until I have a real job. Those level 3's are so bomb though.

12 12's would have been the $50 subs. Provincial lottery ;).

I called a DC dealer 50km away and he quoted me $320 for a DC Level 3 18". I called another dealer 50km away and he quoted me $400 shipped to my door so the other guy must not have told me the shipped price. The SSD's came to 508 without options or 678 with, not including shipping and duties so I think the DC level 3's would be a much better deal. I asked the dealer if he had M2's (2012's) because they have the stitched lead and he said he'd throw in a dual stitched leads for free. Heck yes!

So now the options are...

1) used 15 in the trunk on used aq2200, $400 budget for the sub & amp, mad cheap set up comparatively, would most likely leave me kicking myself
2) DC Level 6 15 on as much power as I can afford $crazy expensive but might be competitive with the 2 18's
3) 2 level 3 18's in the back seat of the Alero on a aq2200, no wall, thrown the F in not bolted down because now I'm like F a wall it's too much work. take the door off, throw it in, done. most likely sub/port up fire because of this clearance issue with the seats/port. I was told by Father Yuli on CarAudioForumz awhile ago that you really only gain a few dB if that when you use upwards of 8k. I didn't believe him out of acoustic principal, can anyone confirm this?

So now I'm wondering what kind of out put a DC Level 6 15 in 4 @ 34 would have on 5-10k (which has happened) vs. 2 level 3 18's in 12 cuft (recommended) on 2k.

Heavily leaning towards level 3's, price is too good to pass up and I still get slap happy.

I feel like I'm dying inside .
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1549
Registered: May-09
Damn, yeah you are supposed to be a safer driver above 25, statistically.. if you are not removing the backseats fitting 2 18s there seems hard, for trunk type of cars 2 12" sealed off seem the most promising configuration, 1 15" also is a good option with some 16-17"H inside the trunk.. not need to tell which as you already know what's out there.

Hope you can land a project and execute it, I really can't figure out how you can endure so much time without lows!
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 588
Registered: Oct-10
I'll probably be taking out the back part of the seat that you sit on but not the verticle portion. I could lie about the back seat and just not insure the subs/box for now. I'm struggling to keep the tune low and space up while having excursion clearance. Currently sitting at 12.5 cubes which would be perfect because after bracing it'd be 12 NET. Not sure if I should tell the guy to build it 49.5" wide or 48" wide to save money on MDF. That inch and a half is like 1.5 cubes lol.

Boss hasn't paid me in a month... expecting $1500-$2000 on Monday, which is great because the less I have in my pocket the less I spend!
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 589
Registered: Oct-10
Found a nice Civic hatch for $1000, looks brand freaking new. Maybe I should buy it and just not drive it for a year but build in it. 12 sealed 12's or 12 ported 10's... 16 cubes @ the window line.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 590
Registered: Oct-10
I went out on a limb and asked sonic if they'd pay for shipping & duties if I spent $1200 on 24 12" subs... haha. might as well try.
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1552
Registered: May-09
I am feeling dizzy
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 591
Registered: Oct-10
duties are non negotiable. oh well. their loss.. maybe.

15" sub 250
2k amp 300
4 cuft box 350
= $900

I could do it so much faster!

Now how much power can a DC Level 6 15 handle? I'm gonna email them. What's the price on them, $1000? $1300 shipped? SHUTUP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

I don't think the Alero is much of a car to wall. It's like it doesn't deserve it, it's just an alero. I think if I become an electrical apprentice and make $10-20/hour more than I'd buy the car I really want, a new GTI 2-door, black & standard, suicide doors, stupid rims, big wall. Let's take it easy for now, aye? Do I really NEED 2 18's walled in an alero? wont it be uncomfortable anyways in the car and id turn it down with 1 15?

150 on music. that seems like a good starting goal and I've seen it done with a BTL on like 3k in an Alero.

I could just like... deaden the hell out of the doors and build the roof up nicely.

im so relieved. no messing with a wall. its like 400lbs have been lifted off my shoulders.

I'm not ready for a wall. it sucks so much being in canada where nothing is manufactured and if it is its more expensive.

it will still be the loudest bass around with a level 6 on stupid power!

one of the reasons i would do a 15 in the trunk over 1 18 on the back seat is because i could get dustin to build me a box, he does crazy sweet work and you KNOW the box is the one thing thatll make the sub shine. huge difference when quality is applied and ive never build a box. guy does freaking KERFS! wouldnt want to pay for shipping on a box thats 8 cubes lol.

im also looking forwards to the wave travelling from the baffle to the back of the trunk back to the baffle and to my ears. that is a long, deep wave. oh yes.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 592
Registered: Oct-10
called the dc dealer. he says 20k burp, 10k daily. i was like... holy cow dude. he said call rusty. so... calling rusty.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 593
Registered: Oct-10
could realistically do 3500w to a 15" with 1 or 2 XS batts. going for a reliable, no-battery-drain system. 700w to the fronts. done and done.

which 15's will handle an audiopipe aqx 3500.1 @ 1 ohm?

4 xl
level 5
hdc 3 alum
hdc 4
dd 9500
btl
smd
ssx
mt
tc 5400

about 4 @ 35

might as well buy a used $200 as the 3500w would be clean.

looking locally
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1555
Registered: May-09
1) The alt is?

2) E3 overkill (on here) claims that he has put a 3.5k amp to a couple of sa-12s and it went perfect!

10K music on a L6, I would get that if I wanted to spend loads on a proper electrical.

Dustin does great work, we all know that but shipping the box would be a killer. right. I really don't think that building a box is hard at all if you are building the right thing UNLESS it's a higher order bandpass, of course kerfs are hard to do without the tools and experience but those are for looks mostly, there are always flared aeros to do an efficient port.

And I am telling you man, you were born for this if you setup an car audio related biz you couldn't fail.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 594
Registered: Oct-10
Either 425 mechman or a 270 bolt on from singer, although the mechman 270 says its better on paper, i asked singer about this.

considering 2 18's sealed in 8 cubes behind the seats at the window line. i cant believe i over looked not going ported with 2 18s.

L6... too expensive. + shipping came close to $1500!

I messaged a guy about a treo ssx 15 d2 on caco for $300+shipping... nice looking sub, 4" coil.

would build the box myself. dustin does great work but who needs it for a sealed box.

im preeeetty sure 2 18's sealed would do better than a ported 15 on the same power. should atleast.

2 18's sealed... here we go again -_-

having trouble finding xcons for sale

may just buy those level 3's for 800 shipped and run it with a 270 bolt on and aq2200

saw a audiopipe aqx 3500.1 for 375 shipped, used obviously. used aq2200 is even more! WTH?
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 595
Registered: Oct-10
singer 270 bolt on
2 used 18 D1/D4 for $600
aqx 3500.1
1 or 2 xs
12-13 @ 30-35 walled

-_-

im losing my mind here. quick, someone find me 2 used 18's thatll take 1750W for $300 shipped L0R1E0.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 596
Registered: Oct-10
im trying to buy a aq 3500d.1 from a guy close by but he's actually 10 minutes over the border into the states when i thought he was in canada (border city). so now ill have to pay $672ish instead of $600. BS man. he wont drive over the border to meet me, either, he can't. great.
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1557
Registered: May-09
You could, if you are near the border use a a UPS office as a place to pick up your stuff, shipping would be cheap and guess you could intall or fake install the stuff so no duties.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 597
Registered: Oct-10
trying to get him to meet me at the border because i dont have a passport and he cant come into canada. im one step closer to this build being commenced.

thinking about 3 xcon 15s 4th order wall
outside 27 x 49.5 x 24 (yes it will barely fit i made sure)
port 5.75 x 30.75
1.5 sealed 2.5 ported @ 45 Hz

doesn't look too bad and might be flat after cabin gain. 60 hz is right at the 0db point so thats good. thats all i need.

Joe, can you show me that after cabin gain? vs 3 xcons ported 12 @ 32.65 Hz port 25 x 5.75 port length 20.375

3.12181654 cubes
.42
31.3 hz
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 598
Registered: Oct-10
so now he tells me he can get over just fine but on the way back he "gets searched every time!!!!!".
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 599
Registered: Oct-10
Doing .5 ohm for 2 18's instead to counter box rise.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 603
Registered: Oct-10
The dude with the 3500 hasn't replied in 4-5 days.

I contacted someone else about another 3500 (same amp/different seller) and he isn't replying either -_-.

Tried to get 2 custom 18's from texas, 2k each, d2's, looks like pap wmd2 motors, $450+ship but is $140 each sub to ship! NO!

Maybe I should get the 270 first.
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1569
Registered: May-09
It sounds like that project is cursed!
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 605
Registered: Oct-10
The guys on caco don't like me because I complained that the seller wouldn't reply for days, this is the 6th day. Bad fo biznass! A mod closed my thread and said "feel free to stick around if people will sell to you"... what a bunch of... americans. I had a valid rant.

Tried to buy 2 Obsidian 18's for $360 shipped, the guy said he'd sell to Americans before Canadians.....

There's all kinds of single 15's I could buy in Canada, dc xl's and all that stuff.... but who wants a single 15?!

I'm spending my money on stuff I don't need, too (subway lol).

I was hoping those obsidians would allow me to get a small alt and one decent batt... i didnt really care about the power as much as having 2 18's in a wall.

This project is still going if I can find 18's in Canaduhhhh. i dont want to get a 15 and kick thyself in the nats later.

a guy is selling 12 t3 t200 12's for 500 picked up. he lives an hour away. I read reviews on them, apparently they suck lol. I considered it for a split second.
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1572
Registered: May-09
I would get a passport and let UPS lend their office as US destination address.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 609
Registered: Oct-10
I'm not sure if my local DC dealer meant "the level 3 18's are 800 shipped to your door", or "... shipped to your door and then you pay border fees".
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 610
Registered: Oct-10
My friend gave me some good points about buying new, you dont have to worry about broken things.

They're "only" 900rms but they should take 1600 for a few minutes with steady voltage & gains set, I mean how could you go wrong? You can't because a distortion detector would tell you.

1 year warranty etc.

I can't find any used 18's in canada (besides $800 Fi BL 18's in a different province on kijiji or craigs). If I want to upgrade to 4 18's later, a 3500 would be perfect for them and a 270 (one alt, biggest bolt on) would be perfect for a 3500. 1 ohm with 2 subs and .5 ohm with 4 subs. it makes sense because if i was doing low power with 2 i would do 1 ohm because not many cheap, small amps go lower. low power now, get 2 more 18s and a better amp/alt/batts later. right now i can get like a pdx1000 for 200?
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 611
Registered: Oct-10
Something awesome just happened. I called a different DC dealer, 2 level 3 18 d1's isn't $800, they're $640 total and that's AFTER shipping, duties, taxes, ETC. This means I can order at the end of the week (to be safe) and they're completely in my budget. Time to BHHHHHANNNNNNNNGGGGGGGG!!!!

im getting d1's and an aq 2200 or similiar 2k so if i get 4 18's later on i can do 2 aq 2200's @ 2 ohms strapped.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 615
Registered: Oct-10
working on final box dimensions. im bracing it well with 2x4s and wooden dowells. port 6 x 27, 12" of port per cube, 13.5 NET @ 32.425 Hz.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 616
Registered: Oct-10
making it 15 cubes net @ 32 hz now... building port inside car. oh well. sweeeeet.
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1577
Registered: May-09
It does look nice if you can pull it off.. hope that luck changes!
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 617
Registered: Oct-10
Work has been slow, didn't work tues, wed, thurs or today.

so the box ill put through the door is still 27 x 24 x 49.5 but how do i build the port - can i use just glue? actually, i could screw in the port walls at the sides through the sub cut outs. problem solved. i still need to measure for port area. dual chamber so the port ratio is decent.

im trying to make a cut sheet. obviously sheets come in 48" and the box is 49.5" so im going to have to make it a little differently.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 618
Registered: Oct-10
Here's how the sale went...

me: how much do i make the money order for?
him: 720.xx after taxes
me: you said 640 all inclusive two days ago
him: misunderstanding but ill honor my word for 640 all inclusive

2 dc level 3 18 d1
http://i.imgur.com/NfJqQ.jpg
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 620
Registered: Oct-10
it will be like this

http://teamzx2.com/threads/33707-2000-zx2-custom-DD
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 622
Registered: Oct-10
Someone recommended a shop ive never heard of, 15 minutes away, and i just got back. finally ive found a shop that knows how to do what i need. these guys know their stuff big time. they had some intense car show stuff going on and knew as much about boxes as me.

they can work within my budget of 650.

the dude recommended 1.5" thick MDF, saying 3/4 would flex hard.

my original idea is good and theyll use it (build box, put through door, built port in the car). it should come out to about 13.5 cubes. angled baffle. i couldnt be happier.

i also put a b stock RE xtx 5000.1 (2500W @ 1) on hold for 2 weeks for 350!
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1579
Registered: May-09
Everything looks good, hope you can manage to get it done.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 624
Registered: Oct-10
The XTX should be mine on Friday when I get paid.

DC dealer hasnt gotten my money yet .

Shop guy measured the door. It'll be angles, angles, angles. A bit of a horn style port. Wont have to build the port in the car this way.

2 batts, hopefully odyssey 2150's. ill run the amp at 4 ohms for now, until i can get the elec. done.

Something like this, about 13-14 cubes @ hopefully 30 Hz.

http://i.imgur.com/Mygr3.jpg

I found a local guy who can build me an alt but it would be about 140-150A. If I need more I could take out the A/C (it doesn't work) and get another 105A OEM for 210A. Otherwise the shop has a used ohio 200A for sale. Waiting on price.

And man... what a long thread! haha. 8 12's, what was I thinking?!

If anyone comes here asking for cheap subs and they have lots of space, send them straight to DC level 3's!
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 627
Registered: Oct-10
got some stuff done this morning

http://i.imgur.com/9KoGy.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/YiuEr.jpg

above the red light is where the mids will go and there will be pods in the corner by my/passenger feet. 2 tweets each side glassed in the stock location with 6.5's in the stock 4x6 locations. basically 2 sets of 6.5's with 4 mids.

http://i.imgur.com/nJh1m.jpg

all i have to do before i get them to build the box is put the car in my name so i pay full insurance (parents pay half). theyre worried about something happening to it because they're dumb. Yeah, my last stereo got stolen but the alarm didnt go off. i was like 50 feet away .

i might even buy everything first and then install because otherwise i'd be paying full insurance (im 24 years old) and that could be wayyyy more. i might as well save myself a bunch of money.
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1586
Registered: May-09
Yes at least 2 sets of mids there. Bolt your box and use Torx or other exotic type of screws for the subs, most small time thieves give it up if they find something a bit harder to take away than expected. now if a pro wants your stuff he'll get it!
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 631
Registered: Oct-10
Smart idea. Will do.

Insurance with the car in my name is the same as im already paying. I just won 500 in a beat/producer contest . Havnt been working much tho. Dcs should be here in a couple days.
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1597
Registered: May-09
Some good luck is always welcome, on the system I would look into some pro audio midbass drivers, keeping up with those subs is going to take something loud.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 632
Registered: Oct-10
I quit my job to focus on school and it wasnt regular pay or work schedule. I had an $850 internet bill get reduced to less than 400 (where i pay like 50) by bell mobility today because they screwed up our plan and gave the run around.

The DCs shipped yesterday. I got the XTX 5000 yesterday. I dunno how much else I need but my front brakes failed the other day. 150 for brakes and then 450 for wall and then 135 for the other install stuff and more if it costs to put a car in your name.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/480464_10151134189105786_1638358771_n.jpg
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1612
Registered: May-09
Today you can pull some wi-fi miracles and reduce to nothing your access costs.. damn that was a sick bill.

Nice you got your stuff coming hope you didn't defund yourself early.. you know car audio.. it will always cost more than you thought..

Hope you finally put it together..likely you will be one of the loudests guys around since the scene over there seems not to be top notch yet.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 633
Registered: Oct-10
well my car needs an entire new front end, including brakes/calipers/rotors, also need rear calipers/brakes/rotors and i may have to sell the 18's and amp. this happened a week after i quit my job!

trying not to sell the stuff... but dam... too much, one thing after another... my mechanic said one more bump and the front end would have slammed to the ground!
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1619
Registered: May-09
Hell, I think you can get refurbished or recovered stuff, some of it anyways. Rather than selling new stuff I would get some temp job, You are cursed man, better check that car maybe the engine or something else very expensive is about to freaking blow also, thinking of it maybe it would be best if you did the cheapest crappy fix possible and then sell it asap. Also hope you trust your mech either to be knowledgeable or not trying to get a better deal than he should..lol.. def not the first time I known of something like this..
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 634
Registered: Oct-10
Funny you mention that I'm cursed because my mother is smudging our house today because she thinks it's cursed lol.

I thought about selling it but my dad says "no, you won't ever get your money out of it"... sometimes I think he's a genius.

This is the best mechanic around, very honest.

I got the 18's today. They're really beefy.

http://i.imgur.com/ZBBIz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/UkPcw.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/EmGaj.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/moFSx.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/A5JuU.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/YVdiw.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WIYvI.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/UAucI.jpg
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1625
Registered: May-09
Great subs LH, Your dad sounds like a pessimist too, ever heard of Victor Lustig??
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 635
Registered: Oct-10
I totally forgot about this place. Heres where the stereos at. Subsonic at 17hz, boost at 4db of 12, gain at half, lpf at 65-75. No deadening. Blocked trunk rattle by putting seats back in and scrap plywood & mdf. Its not skull crushingly loud but sounds good and gets really low. Any song like my system or speak her sex or late night tip is nothing for these. They seem like theyre moving way past 23mm. I will upgrade to probably 4 in a ported wall with a 3500.1. But not until i get a freaking 2 door vw hatch. 24 cubes @ 30 hz with a 270a alt and 2-3 batts. I was wondering if i could do 6 in a sealed (fiberglass baffle) wall in a hatch on a dc 5k. Basically i want more of these lol. would like to have a dc amp. I figure 4 level 6 18s and a DC 12k are in my near future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv-9utOKPgw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 872
Registered: Oct-10
Nice.

And I would definately recommend a VW hatch to anyone. I had a 2001 vw golf 4-door hatch. 1.8 turbo. LOVED it. 30 mpg, 135 mph, very sturdy and well built. No contest for a 90 year old oak...
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1693
Registered: May-09
Glad you got that build through. Sealed can sound nice and clean and blend in exceptionally well to your front stage but you would be doing maybe 8 db above at lower frequency with a ported box same everything else, that's probably more than 6 subs on sealed without adding power. Don't get me wrong I have run sealed before and is really nice - no audible group delay. And you are still getting damn loud am sure, for a reference I would have the setup metered.

To note that's a weird HU never seen that..
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 636
Registered: Oct-10
Thanks. The deck is dual. It was 20 from walmart in 2008. It sounds good, highs arent loud and is loudest at 25-35 hz, loses some sq at full volume. The Q is 1.04 if i remember and i can hear it. And yes it pounds, its just not anywhere near as impressive as i know it can be. i used an eclipse lms 12 in sealed 1.25 cuft and then 2 cuft ported and it was comparable to my re xxx 12 (on half power!), porting makes a huge difference and then the wall. Jesus, what am i missing out on?

I want a ported wall tuned to 30hz but cant afford it yet. Im doing the electrical first. Im not upgrading till i get a hatch but will do a ported wall in 1-2 months. I think itll be $500-$600. Are you sure theres an 8db gain over 2 sealed in 8 cuft & 2 ported in 12-16 @ 30 hz? Thats... a lot. I know ill want more bass after the wall though... I ought to wait for a hatch and do 4 on a 3500.1. A 270a could handle that.

I dont know what group delay is. Sounds like... Resonances that cancle out frequencies. Linear. They could use a bigger box. Id like to hear a Q of .7.

Firstly, i need tints. Then electrical - big 3 & batts. Then alt. Then wall.

If i had the space id use 8 of these with a 7k & 2 270a. What is that, 48 cuft? FML.
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1700
Registered: May-09
You are missing out on deafness maybe..lol anyways yes at specific frequencies (like in burps) and including cabin effects it may be possible for ported to show a substantial difference in output when compared to sealed, not so much on music (like 3-5 dB) and likely not on low tuning. Still the difference would be striking due to the low end extension of ported, increased flexing also would be noticeable.

Group delay is the negative first derivative of phase with respect to frequency, in other words a loudspeaker introduces some time delay to it's output, it is not very noticeable unless this delay changes fast in magnitude (like from little delay to a lot), in ported boxes it grows around the port tuning frequency due the port acoustically loading the cone of the sub. It is the slurring effect that ported setups are infamous for among SQ lovers but there are design countermeasures
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 638
Registered: Oct-10
I think theyd sound even better tuned to 30hz. Id like some lms ultras.
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1718
Registered: May-09
Here is a sealed vs ported (standard cabin gain included) for the cheap Pioneer TS-W3002D4

Upload

The boxes are 1 cube for the sealed, 1.6 for the ported, at tuning frequency you get 14.4dB over baseline while on sealed 2.50 a 11.9dB difference at tuning! I bet it would peak harder tuned higher, not very linear though

The only thing sealed have going for it is performance below 22hz which is substantially higher than ported. A feature that would share with 4th order bandpass.

I concur with you on the lms ultras but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 642
Registered: Oct-10
Albee doing a fourth order bandpass it is 12 cubic feet net I don't know about the part but it is 2 sealed for ported it would be harder to steal because of the baffle and I would invite the magnetsgoing for a few going for a flat past and
 

Gold Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 1720
Registered: May-09
I didn't understand completely that but yeah the sealed box can get stolen like you have it right now, regarding a 4th BP don't think is possible 12 cubes would be appropriate for ported, BP would take more, I see a SUV in your future, probably a 6th BP those things can get stupid loud, in fact so loud that sound quality doesn't matter anymore, is more like having trouble breathing!
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