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Kicker cvr or kenwood w3013ps 12's

 

Silver Member
Username: Mash4kash

Lafayette, LA

Post Number: 337
Registered: Feb-06
Will the kickers be a whole lot deeper than the kenwoods? Both are in same price range both take 400w rms. kenwood being svc 4 ohm kicker dvc 2 or 4. To be put in a ported box in a 04 duramax crew cab behind rear seat on a kicker kx800.2, box has 6" mounting depth. Kenwood said 6" but no I had to put the plastic ring cover it came with on the box then the sub on top the ring then screwed it in.
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 760
Registered: May-09
This is Kicker is 4-3/8":

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_21922_Kicker-CVT124-10CVT124.html

The CVR is 6-3/16" you kenwoods are 6-1/4" so CVRs are a bit less deep.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mash4kash

Lafayette, LA

Post Number: 340
Registered: Feb-06
Actually I meant bass deep as in which sub will sound deeper, which is a best overall sub. Kenwood advertise its mounting depth as 6" on the box. At best buy a cvr (black one) and kenwood were place on the counter and the cvr was slightly higher. Kicker says the aluminized cvr is 6 5/16 And the black cvr is 6 1/4
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 773
Registered: May-09
The Kicker will deliver stronger bass, also has higher sensitivity so I guess louder and lower it is. But still mostly is the box so it's hard to say if it will make a meaningful difference in a small box.

Take a look at this one is 6-3/8" 400W RMS dual 4 ohm:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_8363_Kicker-CVR124-07CVR124.html
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 763
Registered: Oct-10
Go (4) CVTs or (2) CVRs. I never want to hear the K word again
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 764
Registered: Oct-10
Haha Kicker is a k word too and they cool with me
 

Silver Member
Username: Mash4kash

Lafayette, LA

Post Number: 341
Registered: Feb-06
Lol, Gross Airspace: 2.17 Cu.Ft.
Net Airspace: 1.76 Cu.Ft.
Port Volume: .41 Cu.Ft.
Boxed istuned @36Hz

Uh whats the difference between gross and net??
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 781
Registered: May-09
Net Volume (Vb) + port displacement + sub displacement = gross volume.

So two 12" on 1.76 cuft is hell tight, The sub on the link I left above would require 1.75 per sub, on top of that the box is tuned a little high, those subs will get loud but on that box maybe not that low.

Better than the kenwoods?, I guess yes, worth the upgrade?? I don't think so unless you will be happy with whatever improvement you can get.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mash4kash

Lafayette, LA

Post Number: 342
Registered: Feb-06
Damn I got a 04 crew cab Chevy 2500hd the box is behind the rear seat. Will poly fill work? If so how much poly fill exactly in pounds do I stuff? Or is it for sealed boxes only?
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 783
Registered: May-09
Ok S.L.A.B. from the models I have seen damping will limit resonances of the box and it behaves like if the sub was in a bigger box regarding that resonance lump but will not extend frequency response in any way like a bigger box will do.

You can use damping in any box ported sealed or whatever, you can put as much as you want as long as no moving parts are stuffed.

Id say look for a sub that works on small enclosures but from what I have seen improvements are marginal.

JL Audio makes for some specific vehicles custom enclosures that are derivatives of 4th order and manage to give deeper bass.. very expensive though...
 

Silver Member
Username: Mash4kash

Lafayette, LA

Post Number: 343
Registered: Feb-06
If improvements won't be a night/day difference then I'm wasting my time. The kenwoods are single 4 ohm not bridged so they're getting 200w x 2 @ 4 ohms. When the dual 4 cvr's arrive they'll be bridged and it'll be 800w x 2 @ 4 ohms, will that be a night/day difference than it is now with only 400w in that box?
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 785
Registered: May-09
Yes, you are wasting half of your amplifier power now, you cannot bridge because the amp is not 2 ohm stable, so if you want more output, yes 2 ohm capable subs would get louder.

You can try an equalizer to better shape bass response, and the damping can really help with the small box resonances.

All those things will help, you can probably add an under the backseats enclosure.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mash4kash

Lafayette, LA

Post Number: 344
Registered: Feb-06
Can anything bad happen with 2 subs sharing 1.76 cu. ft. Ported when min. Cu ft. Is 1.76 each sub ported?
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 789
Registered: May-09
It's like each was working on 0.88 cuft. You loose bottom end. If you really want to know pretty much how will it sound take a look a this:

http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=newdriver

Just enter the driver params (found on the manual), specify 2 drivers and set the box params: Vb = 1.76 cuft, Fb = 36Hz for the vented enclosure and see it perform pressing "draw it".
 

Silver Member
Username: Mash4kash

Lafayette, LA

Post Number: 345
Registered: Feb-06
I have a 13 band graphic eq on my pioneer 7" does the bass booster, loudness, subwoofer gain, and sla turned up a few benefit or is it distortion?
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 791
Registered: May-09
Properly using these things can help a bit, the damping and else... I just hope that you are satisfied after doing all that.

If you double your power you can just cut midbass a little with the EQ to get some more of the deeper content, but again if you have heard a serious audio system you will laugh anyways..
 

Silver Member
Username: Mash4kash

Lafayette, LA

Post Number: 346
Registered: Feb-06
Lol, I used to have 4 12's on 2 punch 500's then I went with 2 cvr 15's in a box built to specs in a dodge intrepid on a audiobahn 1800,the 15's blew the 12's out the water, that's serious daily sound imo I miss the 15's but to do that in a truck, you have to get rid of the backseat.
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 793
Registered: May-09
I would have one sub on the backseat and one under the backseat in 1.7 cubes or something each, that should give both the space they need. that way the kickers would reach their spec. With some work it would sound like a single 15. I guess try first with a single box.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mash4kash

Lafayette, LA

Post Number: 347
Registered: Feb-06
Joe, I just found a .77 cu ft per chamber sealed box for under the seat downfire. Kicker min. rec sealed box volume is 1 cu ft. .77 is closer than .9 is to 1.76 for ported right? So would you say it will hit the lows better in the sealed than the ported since its closer to specs? Will that be a night/day difference?
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 807
Registered: May-09
Upload

(Violet) KFC-W3013PS 0.88cuft@36Hz
(Green) Kicker CVR12 0.88cuft@36Hz
(Yellow) Kicker CVR12 0.77cuft Sealed

The kenwoods must be hell to listen with a 7dB lump at 65Hz

The CVR12 will have a 5dB lump at 50Hz so boomy as well but you can defeat that lump with heavy damping, they have F3 = 32Hz which is pretty decent.

The CVR12 sealed have an F3 = 37Hz on 0.77 cuft and quite linear but there is a loss of 3 dB using sealed.

Overall the CVR12s on your present box would be the best option but need to be heavily damped to reduce that lump to 1-2dB and sound decent.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mash4kash

Lafayette, LA

Post Number: 348
Registered: Feb-06
So i set the hz on the amp at 50 for the cvr's? What does the term damping mean and how do I accomplish the "heavily damped to reduce that lump to 1-2db and sound decent"?
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 809
Registered: May-09
Just lowpass to 60Hz and Highpass to 60hz the rest of your speakers, use as much polyfill as possible in the interior, do not stuff the ports or the space immediate behind them, place the new kickers. You are done. The poly will prevent the sound to get too boomy, then you can further improve with the EQ. Try avoiding the amplifier bass boost at first.

The best way would be to have 1 sub on the backseats box and one in a below backseats box so that both would have 1.7 or so cubes. but I guess that's overkill for now. You can always upgrade later.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mash4kash

Lafayette, LA

Post Number: 349
Registered: Feb-06
Thanks for the lesson Joe!!
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe1234

Post Number: 820
Registered: May-09
Ok S.L.A.B. wish you luck with that project.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mash4kash

Lafayette, LA

Post Number: 360
Registered: Feb-06
Hey Joe, I'm back again. The cvr's in my current box sounds nice but I want more bass. I'm thinking of a 15 more of a solobaric L5 since I don't know of anything else that hits harder, I'm sure 1 15 would hit the deeper notes than 2 12's. I would build a box for it sealed to the max specs which is 6.0 cu ft can you enter that in the graph with the cvr 12's in my current box and compare it?
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