Question on Sub

 

Bronze Member
Username: Jarred

Post Number: 35
Registered: Apr-10
I have 2 10 inch 4ohm Kicker CVX's which are 600RMS. I want to buy 2 12 inch Solo Baric 4ohm which are also 600RMS. Will there be that much of a sound difference or will there be no difference since they have the same RMS?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Atreidies

Houston, TX

Post Number: 78
Registered: Mar-09
No, they will both be sloppy.

Seriously though, you will get some increase in output. It's all about air movement. Going to a bigger sub will move more air. A square sub has even more surface area than a round. So, to answer your question, yes, they will be louder.

Are you dead set on those subs? There are much better performing subs out there for the price. Just sayin'.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jarred

Post Number: 36
Registered: Apr-10
What other subs would you recommend?
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 273
Registered: Oct-10
A bigger sub won't always move more air. For instance the IDMAX 10 moves more than something like 50% more air than their next lower-level IDQ 12... something like that. Look on the site it says it.

If doubling the power gives you up to +3dB than what if one sub is more than 3dB inefficient over the other sub? For instance the SSA DCON 10 is 86.6 dB efficient and 300W RMS while its bigger brother the ICON 10 is 83.1 dB efficient and 1000W RMS. This means that the DCON on 300W should be .5dB louder than the Icon when it's on 1000W - of course that's all install dependant but that's what you want to look at. If you have the space than two DCON's would be cheaper (by $49 lol) and better than one Icon because of more cone area (totally to a 6.5dB efficiency advantage), and even if you only use 500W and 1000W is obviously doubled (-3dB) the efficient is still around +3.5dB. The difference between 600 & 1000W is almost inaudible when crap amps lose 400W through inefficiency anyways. Entry-level doesn't have to mean bad.

A square 12 provides 31" more cone area over a round 12", which is the equivalent to a 6.25" speaker. The design of the motor (and the basket) alone will improve a driver far more than 31" of cone area. The CVX is a newer design and I don't think we have to tell you that's a better choice because it's round. Kicker messed up.

If you want louder than upgrade your battery, alternator and wiring.

They'll both sound sloppy.

Look at Fi SSD's.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Atreidies

Houston, TX

Post Number: 79
Registered: Mar-09
True, but he was asking about apples and apples. L7 and cvx are very similar beyond the shape. You're comparing a 10" sub with a 2" x max and a 12" with 1.1" x max. The area of the cone is bigger on the 12, but the volume of air moved is less because of almost half of the excursion.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jarred

Post Number: 37
Registered: Apr-10
My brain is getting fucked
 

Bronze Member
Username: Atreidies

Houston, TX

Post Number: 80
Registered: Mar-09
Lol @ Jarred. What's your budget? What amp are you running? What kind of music do you listen to? I am by no means an expert, so I won't give my opinion as to what to buy. But if you put the set-up info out there and explain what you are looking for, these guys will be able to help you find what you are looking for. (Without having to learn about what makes one sub better than the other.)
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jarred

Post Number: 38
Registered: Apr-10
Well I don't mind spending the money for quality..just not competition stuff. Also I am running an aq1200d and I listen to mostly hip hop and r&b. Help me! (In English)
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 276
Registered: Oct-10
I'll say it again look at Fi audio SSD's (800W RMS, 10-12-15-18, real cheap at like $150-$250). Read some reviews, they're much better than Kicker! They havn't updated their site for the 2011 series so you'd have to email Fi or ask around. With 1200 watts you should get an SSD 18 and slap it into no less than 6 cubes tuned to 30 Hz. Can you fit that?

You're missing a few points - excursion alone doesn't equate to a comparable volume of air moved, you're missing all the other specs, the install and the box. The back of the sub, the angle of the bottom side of the cone is what's moving air inside the box so you can't just laterally compare xmax specs. The steeper the angle (up to a point or it drops) the more air will be moved because of added surface area that an angle provides, and it matters more than rated xmax because all xmax means is retaining 70% motor-force, not how forcefull it actually is. Just because a sub has half of the xmax that another does it doesn't mean that that's its mechanical excursion. Most subs with big xmax in whatever type of box are NEVER hitting that limit anyways. The amount of volume a sub can move doesn't matter when people can get louder than a 10" with 1000W with the same sub and 200W because of the install & box alone. What your saying here is that the Digital Designs 9500 series with its little 10-15mm xmax doesn't move as much air as a sub with even quadruple its xmax and that just isn't true. Motor-force is more important than xmax with a ported box. You'll say yeah but xmax helps below tuning but you shouldn't be playing below tuning anyways.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jarred

Post Number: 39
Registered: Apr-10
@Lord Huggington. Do you mind sending me a link to where I can buy one? When I Google search it I only find reviews and forums about them.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 279
Registered: Oct-10
www.ficaraudio.com $189 for the $12. Email Fi to find a dealer near you or maybe they ship direct.

"I got my friends today and put it in his box(2.5 @ 30). I am amazed at the sq on it. It gets **** loud and sounds good doing it. Its not quite as loud as my Q18 and not quite the same sq(besides my ****ing bottoming out issue) but for 189 it is a sick sub. Hit the lows decent with it all sealed up. Its being powered off of a 9.1 gains adjusted by ear. Doesnt move nearly as much air as my 18 so its hard to compare them. Only downfall was a little port noise but it wasnt noticable unless you next to the box. I loved it and it really makes me want to port my Q

out of ten i give it
tightness: 7
lows:8
overall sq:8
highs:9
overall spl:8
overall rating:8.5/10"

 

Bronze Member
Username: Jarred

Post Number: 40
Registered: Apr-10
Ok thanks! The website isn't working so I emailed them
 

Gold Member
Username: Kyle_lowe

Post Number: 1276
Registered: Apr-06
ssd is always a great option, i have one in my girlfriends car
if you wanted to go that way, you would have hold out a bit for the new neo magnet ssd's to come out. unless in your emailing you can get the 2nd gens

if you are looking for something a bit easier on the wallet, but the same great quality as fi, pair that aq 1200d with a set of aq sdc 2.5's
 

Bronze Member
Username: Atreidies

Houston, TX

Post Number: 81
Registered: Mar-09
LH- I really didn't mean to come off as arguing about it. I was actually agreeing with you, just pointing out the fact that there are some big differences between the two subs you compared relative to the cvx/L7.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jarred

Post Number: 41
Registered: Apr-10
Thanks Kyle! I might go with the hd15..but now her is another question..what's better..2 10 inch kicker cvx? Or one 15 aqhd15?
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 280
Registered: Oct-10
I wasn't arguing, I was correcting. I was saying how to compare an apple to an orange, and of course you can do that. I don't know if all of what I said was correct but when you say that xmax = air movement without comparing motor-forces it's incorrect and that would confuse Jared more in the long run because it's not the spec that he should use as a comparison. I take this in an educational light. I've learned enough on other forums what an ego can do for me. I like to flex it on SMD though, those royal pracks with an i instead of an a.

The best thing you can do for picking a sub is go with the non-mainstream, extremely reputable stuff and ask the pro's who have used all of said gear because companies lie and use inaccurate measuring devices with too many ever-changing variables so in the end you just need to go by word of mouth and I say SSD.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Atreidies

Houston, TX

Post Number: 82
Registered: Mar-09
Actually I said VOLUME of air moved is less because of xmax, which is a fact. Never said it can be used as a definitive measurement. On top of that, I think you are confusing displacement and SPL. Motor strength only effects the pressure level of the wave generated by the cone.

I'm pretty sure he isn't interested in using ANY spec as a comparison at this point. He just wants to know what will give him better performance than what he has.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 437
Registered: Oct-10
x2. And jarred, IMO the 1 15 hdc will be better. BUT YOU HAVE TO GET AN OPTIMAL BOX!!! TALK TO BASSMAN! DO NOT GET A PRE-FAB JUNK BOX. You need to get it down to 1 ohm. What is that, dual 2 ohm coils for one speaker to get to one ohm? someone will know for sure. What kind of car u drive?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jarred

Post Number: 42
Registered: Apr-10
I'm considering either the hdc15 or the ssd18. Pros and cons, 15 is smaller so more trunk room but not as loud.18 is louder but I will have no trunk at all! As far as what I drive, I drive a 2010 Ford focus sedan.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 441
Registered: Oct-10
go 18 and use back seat as storage.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jarred

Post Number: 43
Registered: Apr-10
Haha fer sure..ok sounds good! Looks like I'm going with the ssd18! Hopefully I can find a good box for it! Or is it recommended to build it myself?
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 442
Registered: Oct-10
If you know what you're doing, do it yourself. If not, a guy here on E builds sweet boxes for decent prices (bassman)... look down the thread list and find "enclosure for SKD" He built that. You will need to figure out where you want it tuned at. Low tune (25-30) is for sound quality and screwed and chopped music, really shakes with the lows. Higher tuned (35-45) is best for SPL comps and really not much else. I personally love the wall flexing lows and tuned my box to 28. Hit up bassman and lord huggington, they know more about boxes than I do.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 443
Registered: Oct-10
Oh and also, make sure you get the right coil configuration to wire one speaker down to 1 ohm
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jarred

Post Number: 44
Registered: Apr-10
Ok man thanks a lot! I'll hit up bassman for the box! And ill need a DVC 4ohm for a 1ohm load correct?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Atreidies

Houston, TX

Post Number: 86
Registered: Mar-09
DVC 2 ohm. With DVC, you can either double or halve the ohm load of an individual voice coil.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Jarred

Post Number: 46
Registered: Apr-10
Ok cool thanks. I was thinking of 2 subs cause that's all I've ever had haha. Alright so a DVC 2ohm SSD 18. Should be ordering that soon
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