This box vs. that box

 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 129
Registered: Oct-10
Playing around with ideas for my Alero trunk...

What do you think of these two boxes? Both outside dims are 21 height, 38 width, 30 depth. Both have everything firing forewards.

2 BTL 15"
5-7 K @ ? ohm
daily for rap/techno

Box 1
.75" MDF (1.5" baffle)
9 cuft @ 31.5 Hz
Port 6 x 19.5 (x 26.25ish long)
port off to the side

Box 2
1" MDF (2" baffle)
8 cuft @ 33.75 Hz
Port 5.75 x 19 (x 23.25ish long)
port in the middle

Box 2 has the subs loading the same, and both are displacing air onto 45 degree corners for good air flow. Box 1 doesn't have bracing so I'd use a stronger wood like birch. One is obviously louder/stronger. Do you think a 1.5" baffle would buckle with 6K?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Insearchofbass

2 hifonics 2607s, 2dcSounds12xls SPL\idmax12SQ

Post Number: 16151
Registered: Jun-04
youll be fine with 1.5 inch using birch
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 130
Registered: Oct-10
Is 1.5" of birch stronger than 2" of MDF?

I want to try a pair of DC level 6 15's on a Soundigital 16K for daily. If they ever come out, there goes 4 grand *tear*.
 

Gold Member
Username: Tejcurrent

Post Number: 2638
Registered: Apr-07
X2, but personally I would do the smaller box with 3000+ watts.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Insearchofbass

2 hifonics 2607s, 2dcSounds12xls SPL\idmax12SQ

Post Number: 16152
Registered: Jun-04
Im going to warn you now DO NOT GET A SOUNDIGITAL AMP they are burp amps and not good daily amps....my brother had two 8 ks from them....wait for the dc 9 k amps they are worth it my brother had one and was very pleased hes on team dc
 

Gold Member
Username: Tejcurrent

Post Number: 2639
Registered: Apr-07
Soundigital has made some improvements in the last few years, I've been told the 16k is fine for daily now. Helluva small footprint for the power. I wish more people were running them to give feedback.
 

Gold Member
Username: Delsole

Post Number: 1768
Registered: Feb-05
I seen a couple tests a while back with the sound digital amps and they were putting out more power then the stetrom and a couple others with the same power system. I don't have any personal experience though.
 

Gold Member
Username: Tejcurrent

Post Number: 2641
Registered: Apr-07
Yeah they seem to do tons of power from clamped testing. I saw some testing of a 16kd rising to 3.8 ohms and still doing over 10,000 clamped watts. One of the things I don't like about them is no LPF, you need to use the one in your H/U or external. Let me clarify- the amps are full-range amps and the LPF goes from 56Hz to 300Hz in one click, no in between. Still powerhouses if they hold up as well as the new ones seem to.
Check out Boilermakers build on SMD, 2 16ks and 160+ on music.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 131
Registered: Oct-10
LPF at either 56Hz or 300Hz?! Nevermind! Even if they're burp amps, you'd think they'd have added one that goes down to 10Hz.

I've never even seen a deck with a LPF.

What's the best amp for these level 6's? They can apparently take 10K for daily. I think the biggest amps out are Soundigitals 20k or 24k prototype, ummm, RF T15000, what else?
 

Gold Member
Username: Livin_loud

MW2 Addict

Post Number: 3311
Registered: Jan-06
box 2 fo sho.

you would bottom the sh!t out of an Alero with 2 lvl6's lol. they will no doubt have tremendous weight if they're not neo.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 132
Registered: Oct-10
I'd probably take a realistic route and power them with something that'll be good with the biggest alt that I can find. There aren't many high out-put alts for Aleros. How the hell do these people power 2 16k's with a 400 amp alt? Millions of batteries... I hate batteries lol.

The thing is, for 2 15's in the trunk, I'd have to cut out the cabin-trunk opening to 21 x 38. It's actually held together with little dot-welds, and I think I could rip it out with a screw-driver.

Still though, 2 15's on even 1K will put weird looks on my friends faces. I don't want to tune high anymore, my last setup was a 2005 RE XXX 12D2 with a Visonik V900XD @ 1 ohm (1500W) in 2.2 cubes @ 36-37Hz. It wasn't built properly, and I paid $300 for it. I won't make that mistake again! The jerk that built my box thought it would be better to have the sub rear-fire with the port to the side, when he should have pointed everything into the cabin. At the time I didn't know much. My car was stolen though. I still have the XXX and Visonik because I switched the XXX for an APX and the Visonik fried the same week that my car was stolen *tear*. The lows sucked, it completely fell on its face so this time around I want a low end monster.

I can also do 6 sealed 12's or 8 sealed 10's behind the front seats, either laying down/upfire or walled. I'd really like to try Eclipses' SW8210 because I used to use 3 Eclipse SW8200's in 3.75 cuft and I still havn't heard a sub that could hit the low-lows as loud. 1.8 cubes sealed = QTC .5, FC 27Hz, F3 42Hz. 6 of those 12's on an SAZ 4500D @ .67 ohm should put them each a little over their 750W RMS. Does that sound right? 4500 x 1.33 x (efficiency) .8 / 6 = 798W?

The best part is they're only $150.

Should I be paying attention to the efficiency (12" = 86.5 dB)? 8 10's & 6 12's have roughly the same cone area but 8 10's should technically be 1 dB more efficient (10" = 86 dB) and take +1100W.

Eclipse even recommends up to 1500W if it's clean, 1400W for the 10's. That's 1400*8 @ 2ohms = 11200W. What does an AB 1000.1 do? 11200W @ 2ohms.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 135
Registered: Oct-10
"you would bottom the sh!t out of an Alero with 2 lvl6's lol. they will no doubt have tremendous weight if they're not neo."

Not really - if they're 100lbs each, and the box is 100lbs, it would be like having me in the trunk lol, I weigh around 250lbs. What do you reckon a box & level 6 weighs?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Insearchofbass

2 hifonics 2607s, 2dcSounds12xls SPL\idmax12SQ

Post Number: 16166
Registered: Jun-04
just so you know the crossovers are really crappy in the sounddigitil amps too
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 136
Registered: Oct-10
Somehow the SD is like 2 grand and the RF 15000 is like 20 grand. I just don't see it.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Insearchofbass

2 hifonics 2607s, 2dcSounds12xls SPL\idmax12SQ

Post Number: 16168
Registered: Jun-04
yeah thats rediculous
 

Gold Member
Username: Tejcurrent

Post Number: 2647
Registered: Apr-07
The rf amp is a totally different beast. It needs minimal electrical upgrades and is just on a different level. With the right charging you would still get a ton of power from the 16ks.
I've seen testing, 1 ohm rising to 3.8 at ~11v doing over 10,000 watts. That's soooo much power for the size case. I'm debating between several American bass 1000.1s or the sd amps. The sd amps are just so small I could fit 70,000 watts in the same space as 20k from ab.
 

Silver Member
Username: Makinblak

Monroe/Monticello, La/Ar

Post Number: 235
Registered: Oct-10
"The thing is, for 2 15's in the trunk, I'd have to cut out the cabin-trunk opening to 21 x 38. It's actually held together with little dot-welds, and I think I could rip it out with a screw-driver. "


drill through the spot-welds instead of tearing it up. Then, if you ever want to put it back in, you could use small bolts and nuts to replace the spot welds.
 

Silver Member
Username: Cwruck

Post Number: 507
Registered: Feb-10
i like the second box, but why the port in the middle?

and i like the idea of soundigital amps, but you will need quite a few batteries, i would suggest at the very least 8 xs power d3100s, but more around 12 could really keep steady voltage.
if a low pass is at 56 hz and at say a 12 db octave, that would be just fine.
but most pioneer headunits have built in low and high passes, and almost every headunit in the >$250 price range will have parametric equalizers that can help you adjut the bass settings.
but when tuned low like 33 hz your bass >60 hz is not really all that important.
the soundigital seems great and is a great size for being so powerful at 12 volts
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 145
Registered: Oct-10
makinblak, good idea...

cwruck, the port in the middle gives 1" more port width, any less is unuseable or atleast it goes below 12" of port area per cube so the port can't be on the side with 1" MDF. It could but I'd rather not go below 12" per.

Right now I'm thinking of selling my Alero for 4-5k and buying my friends mint 02 silver Neon 4-door for 2k.

Got any speed neon wall build pics?
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 146
Registered: Oct-10
sweet* lol wtf?
 

Platinum Member
Username: Insearchofbass

2 hifonics 2607s, 2dcSounds12xls SPL\idmax12SQ

Post Number: 16178
Registered: Jun-04
hmm a wall in a neon
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 147
Registered: Oct-10
My dad said Neons are bad cars yet my first car was a Sunfire that I paid 4 or 5000 for. My Alero has 155000km and the Neon has 100000km. My friend said he wouldn't pay over $1000 for either, somehow I think he's dumb. My mom said I wouldn't get $2000 for my Alero yet she paid 4 or 5000 in 2007 for it!
 

Silver Member
Username: Cwruck

Post Number: 508
Registered: Feb-10
i saw a walled off neon and i wasnt impressed, but the guy didnt seem to know too much.

im not a fan of neons myself, they are cheap and with over 100k miles i would be worried about engine problems or things starting to go bad.
but i see alero's on craigslist in my area for pretty high, but when i bluebook them, people are asking over retail price...
not sure how well they are selling..
but 2000 should be good for that car

but i like the idea if you do a wall do 4 15s or something around that!

if you want low low bass, maybe re xxx's or tc sounds? or just build your own subs?
dc's are good for 40 hz and up to really shine. not so much with lower bass, theres better subs for that instead
but dc's are great subs and cant go wrong with them
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 148
Registered: Oct-10
My kind of wall is a box on the back seat with duct tape from the baffle to the b-pillars then fiberglassed, with blankets around the sides of the box for deadening. Secured with polyester? straps that go to the back of the trunk. Dark tints on the rear windows and that's it. That's a hackjob I guess. I dunno how to build a proper floor, secure it, angle the baffle or if the baffle is supposed to be parallel with the b-pillar because otherwise my seats would be way up to have excursion clearance. Maybe have the sub(s) on the passenger side and keep that seat folded for clearance?

There's so many choices but I think 4 15's would be a stretch for placement? I would do two warden 21's over 4 15's.

I can't figure out how to fit 20 cubes without going into the trunk. How do you build these things? Are there many angles or are they rectangular boxes?

Why does everyone seem to suggest having the port on the passenger side? Isn't it better for a port to be aiming at open space, like above the headrests and in the middle?
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 149
Registered: Oct-10
RE XXX 18 V4 sealed in 26.1 cubes is FC 20Hz QTC .707. I wonder how much power it could handle in that much space, and what the gain would be like. The ability to burp 10-20Hz safely with a wall would be cool too. Just not loud loud. What do you think would cover the lowlows better, one XXX 18 in 26 cubes with 1-2k or 6 Eclipse SW 12's in 10.8 cubes with 4.5k, like how much gain do you get with a huge huge box?

I like the Eclipse SW series 10's & 12's ($150 each!), RE XXX 18 sealed, and the thought of two Warden 21's on 6k. That's about 6 12's ported with 1000W each? Too bad they're $1300.
 

Silver Member
Username: Cwruck

Post Number: 509
Registered: Feb-10
just 1 xxx? i think that box would be wayyy to big in a vehicle, even a house.
i would say somewhere around 10 cu ft for that xxx. tuned low will be nice, but 6 12s would be much better and louder by far. those eclipses are nice

the wardens would do some damage as well, but like you said they have a high price tag, and the eclipses would prob be the loudest and give the best sound overall, plus splitting all that power amoungst the subs make things easier to let it pound and not have to worry about overheating coils
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 150
Registered: Oct-10
XXX 18 sealed - I wouldn't go below 6.3 cubes. Can't believe an octave is worth 19.8 cubes. How the hell does this thing have a high QTC with a lower f3 than fc? It must be efficient in some way. It should be more than -12dB @ 20 Hz, yet it says it's -3dB @ 23 Hz. Is there some kind of 6 dB loss between 20 & 23 Hz? lol

6.3 cubes
qtc 1.0582
fc 30.01
f3 23.04

Eclipse 12 in 1.8 cubes
qtc .5
fc 27
f3 42

Which is better? (as in two Eclipse's per XXX). I KNOW I wouldn't find an XXX for $300 though. About the same cone area and power input but with more xmax and an inefficient -3dB point on the Eclipses? I dunno? 42 sounds high, like how is this thing supposed to be less than -12dB/octave below 27 Hz when the -3 point is at 42?! AHHH!

Eclipse efficiency is 86.5 db/89.5 compared to the XXX. The XXX is only 86.2.
 

Silver Member
Username: Lord_huggington

Ontario Canada

Post Number: 151
Registered: Oct-10
I wasn't thinking about it right lol. I had to look at a graph but still that XXX just doesn't make sense.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Insearchofbass

2 hifonics 2607s, 2dcSounds12xls SPL\idmax12SQ

Post Number: 16186
Registered: Jun-04
i dont no about their new stuff
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