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I'm the new guy.. About to build a system..

 

New member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 1
Registered: May-10
Hi guys, my name's Will. I'm the new guy. My Tahoe got broken into and I lost everything (which wasn't much anyway). I've been reading up on stuff by googling it and this forum keeps coming up and you guys seem to kick @$$ with information, being respectful, suggestive, etc.

I'm about to build a system in my Tahoe. Daily driver, no competition.. I'm a musician and pretty picky about sound. I'm a metal head as well. Fast double bass, some bass lines here and there, and some metal bands use an 808 pad which sounds like a fat bass note that you hear in rap. Every once in a while I like to listen to rap and get a throbbing headache, it's fun. Amongst other music.Here's a break down on what I'm looking at.

My buddy can hook me up with Polk Audio equipment. I'm looking at the MM series components for $90/pair. The SR's are significantly higher. How are the MM's in your opinion? MM series components run at 2.7 ohms optimally, I'm thinking about going JL Audio for subs and amps, but I am totally open to suggestions. I may do JL Audio amps anyway because of their efficiency and after reading up, for each channel they meet the ohm ratings perfectly and independently (supposedly).

So here's my first draft thought on system:
Pioneer MVH8200BT (Installed already)
- JL Audio HD900/5 (75 watts RMS per channel to the interior speakers due to the 2.7 ohm load.. and 500 watts RMS to one of the subs)
- JL Audio 500/1
- 2 pairs of MM Series 6501 components
- 2 JL Audio 10W7 (10's would keep up just fine with my music... although with higher end subs, could I go to 12's?)
As far as capacitors, crossovers, distribution blocks.. etc. Well really, with any of this stuff I have some idea on it, but really I don't have a clue. So yeah..

Basically, SQL and SPL are both important to me. I want it them be like Angelina Jolie or Megan Fox with a license to kill. Sweet, beautiful, but capable of... Anyway, you get it. I want to know that I am listening to a kick drum and that each one sounds different. I know that's not totally distinguished by the subwoofer, but I have heard significant differences between subs. I have looked at various subs online including RE, Fi, Soundstream, Kicker, Alpine, and so on. I need some direction though. JL's are expensive, but if they are the most reliable, most killer sounding sub for what I want, then I'll pay for them. Reliable, capable of pain, and just incredible sound quality are the things I'm after.

I appreciate your help guys.
 

Silver Member
Username: Rosrock

Michigan

Post Number: 204
Registered: Mar-09
why u like JL audio so much? Theres other companys that are better for much cheaper
ficaraudio.com reaudio.com sound solutions audio to name a few
 

New member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 2
Registered: May-10
I'm open minded bro. I put that in there. I have read up on those, but basically this is the direction that some people put me towards. After googling, this forum came up a lot with other suggestions. So I put down what I'm looking at. As in what I like to listen, what's important to me.

It's not a matter of me liking JL Audio so much, it's a matter of me telling someone what I want from a system and them telling me what could cater to it. I'm not a system installer and don't know that much at all. So I'm looking for guidance on it.

Thanks dude!
 

Gold Member
Username: Illuminator

USA

Post Number: 5158
Registered: Apr-05
I don't blame him for liking JL so much. I'd rather have him be passionate about JL than Sony But I do agree that system has quite a bit of JL audio equipment in it.

I'm with Rosrock that there is other equipment out there which is going to be better (though of course their amps power their subs quite nicely). He's also right that if you can't find a good deal on JL i.e. you're paying retail, you're better off going with a different sub brand as JL subs are quite expensive, relatively. I love JL subs, and they're some of my favorite, though.

Don't worry about getting a capacitor. All they do is look pretty, basically. I can retrieve more info for this later (or someone else can help me out here--I'm in a bit of a rush today).
 

Gold Member
Username: Kpa2727

Old Bridge, NJ USA !

Post Number: 1630
Registered: May-07
I agree with The Boss you got to not be deceived by what retail perceives. I'm still ne at different setups, I haven't ran anything highend till my current build. The woofers i have heard that give you what you want is like the ID max that was recommended to me. FI - Q's seem real nice, by far if you can still find them the TC Sounds had the things you were looking for. there are plenty more memebers that will answer this better but i wouldn't rush is the best advice i can give you.

I'm off to work as well Jexx.
 

New member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 4
Registered: May-10
Thanks, Jexx. I'm not really passionate about JL... AHH!! Hahahaha. I've been brainwashed if you will by another installer who is passionate about JL. How much of a hook up I'll get on this stuff has yet to be figured out, but I will get discounts and free installs on everything.

I don't know anything about this stuff, and I am totally open to suggestions, again. Please don't start flaming me guys.
 

Silver Member
Username: Rosrock

Michigan

Post Number: 205
Registered: Mar-09
whats ur total budget for an amp, subs, and a box. thats what ur gonna need and also its reccomended you stay under 1000 rms so that you done need to upgrade ur electrical which will then cost quite a bit.
 

New member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 5
Registered: May-10
I'm projecting 6 months. I'm going to buy the MM series components first, unless you guys give me a good reason not to. Then an amp for them... Then start buying sub stuff. I'm definitely going to take it slow, there's another toys I'm trying to acquire, so it's a juggling act. Thank you guys for your help.

My friend is helping me, he's the wicked installer. He's not trying to sale me anything, I just think he loves JL Audio. His stuff does sound great. However, if I can save money.. Duh. If I can slay JL Audio in sound quality, SPL, and reliability. I'm down. Totally down.
 

New member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 6
Registered: May-10
No budget. I'll be doing it slow. I guess from here.. To buy components (which will be 180 bucks through my buddy), amps, subs, wiring, boxes... Like 2,000 to 3,000. Really though, there's no budget because I'll be getting it piece by piece and I make pretty decent money.
 

Silver Member
Username: Rosrock

Michigan

Post Number: 206
Registered: Mar-09
well if no budget... get 2 fi q 12's and an amp that does 2000 rms
 

Gold Member
Username: Kyle_lowe

Post Number: 1105
Registered: Apr-06
there is nothing wrong with getting the 10w7's, but by the way that you talk your friend must run JL as well. maybe you could mix it up a bit.
http://www.woofersetc.com/p2899/IDMAX10D4--Image-Dynamics-10"-Competition-S ubwoofer.htm

that is just one really good option amongst many others
 

Gold Member
Username: Kyle_lowe

Post Number: 1106
Registered: Apr-06
also, is this you?

Upload










sorry for the lame joke
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 13711
Registered: Dec-03
My thoughts:
Good head unit
forget JL.
get the best components up front you can afford to purchase. Your front stage is 70% of the audio you listen to, and all of the vocal and most of the instrumental range is covered by these speakers.
MM is OK, go up to the SR line if you can afford it.

Look at Sundown Audio (www.sundownaudio.com) for amplifiers.
get a 4 channel and a mono amp.

use the 4 channel to drive the front stage, then get a decent pair of 8" midbass (NOT SUBS) drivers for rear fill.
use line transformers to difference the signal from the back two amp channels to drive the rear fill, and use your head unit (if you can) to add a 20msec delay to the rears (using time alignment settings) and use both the amp's XO and the XO in the head unit for rear speakers to create a bandpass filter for the rears. see here on rear fill:
http://www.glasswolf.net/papers/rearfill.html

see here on how to set up the fronts:
http://www.glasswolf.net/papers/sqsystem.html

se here on setting crossovers:
http://www.glasswolf.net/papers/xosetting.html
http://www.glasswolf.net/papers/ampsettings.html

for the subs, I'd go with the Sundown 1200 or 2000D, and use a sub like the Fi SSD 15" or 18" (single sub) with dual 2 ohm coils to present a 1 ohm load to the amp for full power. Use a ported enclosure for the sub, and tune the box to 28Hz.

You'll also need to do some electrical upgrades (1/0 gauge wiring, big 3, possibly a high output alternator) to support the amps, but it's worth it.

more info here on some of this stuff:
http://www.glasswolf.net/papers/index.html
 

New member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 7
Registered: May-10
Haha. It is me, actually. I'm giving that look right now. Okay, a bad joke to follow a bad joke. I'm actually 6'3", 250 pounds (I work out), black hair, goatee.. If you really wanted to know

Thanks for the advice. He does. He has one JL 12W7 in the preloaded enclosure (not the HO one). It's good, I like it. Of course, I'm always down to save money. Especially if I can get something that's better with.. sorry to repeat myself.. SQL, SPL, and reliability.

I like it's wattage, too. A part of me wants to do something a little more than average. Not by much, just maybe somewhere between 1,000 - 2,000 wrms to the subs. Just to have the ability to make it hurt if I want it to. Your suggestion is something that I read about, and some say that it meets or exceeds the W7 in SQL, but falls a little short in SPL. What exactly is going to make it hurt? Wattage? SPL? I know 10's don't have that kind of reputation, I am open to going to 12's if they can keep up with what I listen to.

Priority of characteristics I want from my system:
1) Reliability
2) Superb sound quality, I want to hear everything... clearly.
3) I want it to hit HARD.. Almost way too hard, if I want it too.

The Boss brought up a point that's bouncing around in my head about keeping it under a certain RMS, so I don't have to upgrade electrical. I remember that number (1000wrms) coming up for my old Honda Civic. I have a Tahoe, could it possibly handle more than that or is that a benchmark number? What is my limit before I have to look at upgrading my electrical? Does that mean alternator and deep-cycle battery? Or what? At maximum I'll realistically run 100 watts rms to each interior speaker (total up to 400 watts rms) and 1500 watts rms to the subs. I may go up to 2000 watts rms to the subs, but I doubt it. I have basic understanding that power doesn't always equal loud. In my Tahoe I had to two Crossfire 10's in a ported box that was built for them with only 320 watts rms hitting them. When I was pushing them hard, it was pretty loud.. My hair vibrated a little, but now I want to step it up. I think most of us get like that when our stuff gets stolen... Get something better!

Anyhow, keep it coming. Again, thanks guys.
 

New member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 8
Registered: May-10
GlassWolf, I've read a lot of your posts before I posted on here. I was hoping you'd respond. Thanks, dude. That is what I was waiting to hear. I'm bummed about the MM's not being good enough, but I get what your saying. My friend can get me the MMs for $90 a pair, and the SR's for $250 a pair. Between guitar gear and what not, I know what it's like not to do something right the first time and then thinking "what if?" Maybe I should do it right the first time.

Unfortunately my head unit doesn't have settings in it like that... Damn it. But it wasn't until after I got it that I thought that I'd actually do a beastly system finally. Hopefully that won't impede me too much.

I won't be competing, but I've done a lot work with tuning an overall sound within bands I've been in. So I've developed a picky ear. What you've told me seems to cater to developing a system that will blow my mind. Pardon the dumb question if it is one, but will a 15 or 18 keep up? I know at live shows they run 18" subwoofers minimally to reproduce kick drum. Now PA equipment is different than car I'd imagine, but I could see that perhaps it can keep up.

What mid bass drivers would you suggest? Would you suggest different components? I saw that you suggested a ported box with one Fi SSD sub, what about the Q's? I'm sure there's a reason for it in the technical side of it that I won't understand, but I've heard that the Q is their SQ sub, just thought I'd ask.

Thank you.
 

New member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 9
Registered: May-10
I've heard of both Sundown and Fi. Reliable, efficient, clean sound/power? Just double checking.
 

New member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 10
Registered: May-10
By settings like that I meant time delay.
 

Silver Member
Username: Rosrock

Michigan

Post Number: 207
Registered: Mar-09
Sounds like you want 2 ssa XCONS LOL. Top notch sound quality along with BOOOOOMMMMM in correct boxes
 

Silver Member
Username: Gcs8

Atlanta, Ga

Post Number: 510
Registered: Sep-09
i would fcsk the hell out of my sundown amp if it was a girl. i love my sundown amp.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 11
Registered: May-10
Nice. Oh and if anyone's wondering why the hell I'm responding quickly. It's a Friday at work, a ton of people took Thursday and Friday as vacation days. There's not much to do around here. I'm getting really excited now. I didn't imagine that I could do a really intricate system for what this price. So much cheaper than the JL stuff, and if it slays on SQL and SPL. It sounds like people find this equipment really reliable and it stands up to the juggernauts of this industry. Plus with GlassWolf's help, it's going to be a pretty bad @ss install. It's trippy to think I might have an 18. It's going to hurt, isn't it?
 

Gold Member
Username: Kyle_lowe

Post Number: 1107
Registered: Apr-06
a sub that i can vouch for personally would be the soundsplinter rl-p. from my experience they are right up the alley for what you are looking for, an awesome sql subwoofer. i ran a single 12 a few years ago on 800 watts. it sounded awesome and got pretty loud. very clean and tight bass from that single 12 that i had. a pair of these would go great with a sundown saz-1500d.

if you were thinking of a single 18, a saz-1000d would pair great with an rl-p 18. the only thing about this though is its kind of a whole different direction of where you were initially wanting to go because of the music that you listen to.

its all up to you though, just more stuff to think about.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 12
Registered: May-10
Yeah, GlassWolf suggested that. It threw me off, but I figure he knows more than me. I mean, his website's pretty intense. Anyhow. Still unsure of which direction. I really like his staging idea though. Where I run components up front, midbass drivers the rear passenger area, and then sub in back. But again, I'm still undecided. Don't know if I should stick with 10's. 10's have always worked for me with the kind of music I listen to. I had a 12 once a long time ago, but it was a Kicker CVR. Maybe the higher grade subs can keep up. I do not know! I'm confused now.
 

Silver Member
Username: Jbpitt

Pittsburgh, Pa. Usa

Post Number: 415
Registered: Jul-09
If you had 10s before an you where happy with them,then go for it man. Tho i dont think you would be disapointed with 12s. I went from 10s to a single 15 and i love it,but i also listen to alot of hip hop too so...
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 13714
Registered: Dec-03
Well, the MMs are good. I'm not saying they are crap, but when you move to an upper escelon component set like the SR, or DynAudio Esotar 2, or the upper line DLS drivers, etc.. you really get a big difference in the output. Not just volume (when amplified which is a must) but in smoothness of response, too. You'll get a more realistic feel from them than a cheaper set. It really is worth the difference, as I said, if you can afford to make that leap. Especially since you're after a SQ setup, which is really my forte. I'm not an SPL guy.

On the subs, yes 12" to 12", the JL W7 will be louder than an Fi SSD or Q, but JL has nothing that can compete with a single Fi Q18 or SSD 18. The 15" would even pretty much destroy the W7 in output with adequate power (1000-1500 watts continuous)

On the head unit that's not a big problem. You can do all of the signal processing needed with an AudioControl product. They make terrific signal processors to handle everything from line drivers to 1/2 and 1/3 octave EQing, time alignment, and crossovers.
The line transformers can be had for about $50, which you'll only need one 2-channel mdoel like this:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/284525-REG/JK_Audio_PUR_Pureformer_Isolati on_Transformer.html#features

The reason for the time delay and differenced signal on rear fill is not just to avoid destroying the imaging and sound stage in front, but also to give the illusion of a much larger venue, like a concert hall instead of a car cabin, which is what you want to simulate a live performance.

I run a single sealed Fi Q18 in my car with 1200 watts driving it. It's matched to a DynAudio 3-way front stage (1" tweeters, 3" mids, 8" midbass) driven by 300 watts x 2 channels. They blend outstandingly.
The key is to EQ out any warm spots or gaps, and set the crossovers properly to blend everything at the transitions between speakers/amps. If you want a demo of an Fi Q18, go to youtube, and just search for "Fi Q 18" and watch some of the demo videos. Sadly these people are trying to show off SPL with a SQ sub, but you'll definitely get the idea.
Search for "Fi SSD 18" or 15 if you like, as well.. gives a feel for what they can do.

For midbass, it's not that vital to be honest when used for rear fill, since the signal is going to be differenced, attenuated, and EQed anyway. It's really just for ambiance. You can pick up a set that handle about 100 or 150 watts each on parts-express if I recall, for next to nothing (8" midbass component speakers)

With the box selection, I was going for ported for you because you want it loud and deep.
Tuned to 28Hz, your low end extension will be earth shaking with a big sub like that in a roomy enclosure, and having a single sub will blow peoples' minds when they hear it. This also leaves you with theoption to add a second one later if you like.
Ported boxes offer extended low end response as well as an increase in output around the tuned frequency and increased mechanical power handling due to coil cooling with the vented enclosure. The downside is some transient delay, and a sharp drop off below the tuned frequency (which won't matter at all tuned that low anyway)

Fi subs are designed and built by the same person who designed the first generation RE (resonant engineering) subs, like the XXX.
They are outstanding drivers, and the guys from Fi actually frequent some audio boards, like SSA.
Sundown amps are about on par with the old Orion and PPI products. Attention to detail, well designed, and terrific power output. Very good amps, although not the cheapest amps on the market in price oer watt. You get what you pay for though, and in this case, that's a massive power supply that won't crap out at low impedance loads.

The Xcon and RL-P are very good subs as well. Also worth considering.
Don't get thrown off by a larger sub though. They can be nearly as fast as a 10" sub. While a larger sub has more moving mass, the big factor in response is box design and BL curve (motor control) for the driver, along with damping factor of the amplifier driving that sub. All of these subs have outstanding BL specs.
The larger sub is going to move a pantload of air though, so the output is going to be magnitudes beyond taht of a smaller driver.

The CVR is a decent sub if you're on a budget, or just starting out. There are much, much better subs made though, and we were steering you toward some of them.

If you want a tighter response, the Fi Q would work extremely well in a sealed enclosure, too.. this would also mean a smaller box, which saves space in the truck.
 

Silver Member
Username: Skdooley

Roanoke, VA Usa

Post Number: 745
Registered: Oct-09
Wow, this thread got a lot of activity in one day, I'll throw in my 2 cents. JL is fine if you don't mind paying a little more. The quality and clarity is there. However, I wouldn't suggest the w7s for what you're looking for, but rather a pair of w6's. If you want the SQ to be there, but not be overpowering loud, 1200 rms of power should be plenty. Seeing how they're going into a Tahoe, you have a good amount of space I'm assuming, I'd suggest the 13 w6s. They're a larger diameter so they'll give you the most air movement, plus w6s do well in small, sealed enclosures so you wouldnt need a huge box.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 13
Registered: May-10
Damn. You guys need to get paid for this. Amazing stuff guys. GlassWolf, you the man. Haha. Really though, I appreciate all your effort. I know there's a certain level of passion for this and to share it feels good. I understand being a musician. I really appreciate you helping me out though. I'm nervous to get all this done. I gotta start gathering prices. It sounds like the MMs are the kind of speaker that's really good, but go one more step would be a whole different level. My friend has the SRs, and I have to say they did sounded really good. How would 6 1/2 midbass drivers work?

I'm going to type the new list:
1 pair of Polk Audio SR 6500 components
1 pair of Midbass Drivers (size is up in the air until you respond.. preferably 6 1/2's since that would fit right in my door without modification.. I think)
1 Sundown Audio SAX-100.4D (4 Channel)
1 Sundown Audio SAZ-1500D (1500 watts RMS @ 1ohm.. Is this too much? Fi Q is only 1000 wrms... Just keep the gain down, that way I don't max it and it gets clean power... is that the idea?)

Can I get away with just this and tweak the settings on the head unit and amps? I know the Pioneer head unit has some pretty cool crossover stuff in it. Also, I read that the Sundown amps have some good crossovers as well. What extra would I need? Just a processor to delay the time 20 ms? If I didn't do that, would it still work well? I'm okay not creating a huge environment sound in my truck, unless it really will add a cool edge to the listening experience.

I'm juiced dude. JUICED. I'll be getting the components soon, and then it'll be piece by piece... 2 weeks to a month for each piece. It's gonna so be worth it. Ahhhhh.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 14
Registered: May-10
Oh also, you said the W7 would be louder. You mean it would hit harder? I get into the 15 or 18, I'm sure it would dust the W7 in SPL. But how about SQ? How would they compare?
 

Silver Member
Username: Rosrock

Michigan

Post Number: 208
Registered: Mar-09
if you get the q FULLY loaded 1500 rms shouldnt be to much of a problem
 

Bronze Member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 15
Registered: May-10
Oh and to clarify. I do not want a Kicker CVR, I've had it. Then I got two 10's in a ported box that was made for them. It was worlds better. Any how I found a Soundstream midbass driver with appropriate wattage. I can't put anything back there, I gotta get something that's at least good

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_24610_Soundstream+SM16.90.html

Anyhow. Yeah. I'm feeling pretty good about this. Excited.
 

Gold Member
Username: Kyle_lowe

Post Number: 1108
Registered: Apr-06
the cool think about Fi is that you can customize your subwoofer to meet your specific needs. im not sure if you have read it but you can go here to read about all of the options on the Q

https://ssl.perfora.net/www.ficaraudio.com/sess/utn154c00449c696a0/shopdata/0070 _Tech/0070_Speakers/0030_Tech.Q/product_overview.shopscript

i would think that if you got the cooling and spider options, it would work great with the saz-1500d.

also you might want to add all of the wiring and connectors to your list. you definitely need 0 gauge for the power and ground cables as well as the big 3 upgrades. and with that amount of power, more than likely some upgrades to your electrical system.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 16
Registered: May-10
Plus I could run the gain lower right? Just feed it clean power, which would be better than working the amp too hard. It says that they are 86% efficient, does that mean that say it's a 1000 wrms it would actually put out 860 wrms? Or am I misconstruing what it's saying?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 17
Registered: May-10
Thanks Kyle. Looking at it now. As far upgrading my electrical system, what does that include usually? Just a higher output alternator? Deep-cycle battery? Caps? I believe it was GlassWolf that said capacitors are pretty, but useless. I remember in my Civic though, I had almost 800wrms total, and the lights would dim when it was cranked way loud.. A capacitor fixed that. Although I know a cap only stores power temporarily and it's kind like throwing a bandaid on a bullet wound (temporary fix to a permanent issue). I know an alternator would permanently increase the over output in my vehicle electricity wise, right? GlassWolf, what do you think I'd need to do to run this?
 

Silver Member
Username: Rosrock

Michigan

Post Number: 209
Registered: Mar-09
ur gonna want some sound deadening material as well. will help a lot.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 18
Registered: May-10
Word. Yeah, definitely. I am NOT going to be one of those guys with a lot of bass and the vibration on the outside is as louder or louder than the bass itself.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 19
Registered: May-10
Here are some questions I asked above that got pushed up by all the responses.

"Oh also, you said the W7 would be louder. You mean it would hit harder? I get into the 15 or 18, I'm sure it would dust the W7 in SPL. But how about SQ? How would they compare?"

How's this midbass driver
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_24610_Soundstream+SM16.90.html

"Plus I could run the gain lower right? Just feed it clean power, which would be better than working the amp too hard. It says that they [Sundown amps] are 86% efficient, does that mean that say it's a 1000 wrms it would actually put out 860 wrms? Or am I misconstruing what it's saying?"

"As far upgrading my electrical system, what does that include usually? Just a higher output alternator? Deep-cycle battery? Caps? I believe it was GlassWolf that said capacitors are pretty, but useless. I remember in my Civic though, I had almost 800wrms total, and the lights would dim when it was cranked way loud.. A capacitor fixed that. Although I know a cap only stores power temporarily and it's kind like throwing a bandaid on a bullet wound (temporary fix to a permanent issue). I know an alternator would permanently increase the over output in my vehicle electricity wise, right? GlassWolf, what do you think I'd need to do to run this?"
 

Bronze Member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 20
Registered: May-10
It wasn't GlassWolf that said capacitors are just pretty.... It was Jexx. Sorry GlassWolf.
 

Gold Member
Username: Hittin1

TEAM REVOLUTION, La. Lake Charles...

Post Number: 4454
Registered: May-07
Good news for you. If you are wanting to run that kind of power, Your Tahoe would be as inexpensive as it gets for electrical upgrades (the the most part- very common vehicle and many many bolt on upgrades are available to meet whatever your upgrade needs may be)..
I'd look into DC Power Inc. for an alt. ~175-200 amp alt (idle)
along with a solid drycell audio series battery and not really ever have to worry about power problems again. .. If you are like me, you will wear your ears out daily (turn it UP when you start the truck and turn it down when you turn off the key). You will want to have you electrical taken care of.
If you don't mind giving up the room, go with the 15" or 18" as GW suggested. Trust me. The bass response will be as tight as you need for the double bass, ect..
SQ is usually quite a bit more expensive than SPL (with some exceptions) but if your are that into the critical listening aspect of it, then look into spending the extra cash for better comp sets (will be extra for the pods or door mods to properly house whatever comp sets you decide on)..

I can see your excitement in the way you described your expectations. And in great detail I might add.. It was refreshing and I am glad that you are getting the help you were wanting. One of the best noob thread I have ever read.. On any forum.. Thanks and welcome to E. Pictures of the progress is a must. Some of us would like the wank material. That is their "pay" as you mentioned. lol Take Care.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 13718
Registered: Dec-03
6.5" midbass are fine, but get actual midbass drivers, not midrange or subs. typically these will be sealed drivers, so no enclosure will be needed. Another temporary option to bypass the need for the line transformer is to wire the two midbass drivers in series (8 ohm load) and bridge the rear two amp channels to mono, and run the back speakers in mono, and create the bandpass filter for them from the head unit and amp XO settings, so they only get about 80-500Hz range (tweak them as needed from there) and attenuate the signal so you barely notice them. you can add the time delay as well with a head unit that has time alignment options built in. If not, that'll be OK too, although you have to be careful with rear speakers to make sure they don't draw the soundstage to the rear of the car.

On the sub, get the Fi Q with the following options:
Cooling
Spider
If you go with a sealed box instead of ported, then get the I-Heat Ring and High Qts options, too.. but with those, you can't use a ported box.

With those options, run the full 1500 watts from the sundown amp, and set the gain properly. you won't hurt anything. impedance rise, and driver inductance will prevent the sub from ever actually getting all 1500 watts anyway, even at full volume.

you're still going to want to consider a high output alternator, 1/0 gauge wiring for the amps and "big 3" and perhaps a dedicated audio (deep cycle RG) battery in back on a battery isolator. For batteries I'd look to Kinetik or XS. The big Sears Diehard Platinum deep cycle is a good battery as well. sells for about $240

set the amp gains properly. don't use them as a volume control. a gain set too low will just cause you to amplify a weak input signal, which will add to the noise floor.

go back to my website, to the "papers" page, and ead the stuff under the "electrical" section. it explains capacitors, and why it appeared to help your civic, what they do and don't do, etc. also talks about alternators, batteries, and wiring. all the goodies.

the DC power 200A alternator would be a good upgrade
1/0 gauge wiring (ring terminals, distribution block, etc) from www.knukonceptz.com
200A battery isolator (ebay, RV stores, PAC makes one)
a good deep cycle battery like the diehard platinum or XS Power, or Kinetik 2000 model
those are the basics.
you'll want to run 1/0 for longer runs. for anything about 2' or less you can go 4 gauge (amps directly to battery terminals in the trunk, or power distribution block to amp, things like that) or just keep it all 1/0 if the amp terminals will accept wire that large.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 13719
Registered: Dec-03
Oh and once you decide on, and order a sub, talk to bassman3 on this forum.
he builds custom boxes to order, and does outstanding work.
He could give you a fair price on building a box worthy of the sub you choose.
 

Silver Member
Username: Gcs8

Atlanta, Ga

Post Number: 517
Registered: Sep-09
yah any of us can vouch for bassman3, he will take GOOD care of you weather you want to build a box your self or get one of his art work boxes. if you wana see the box he made for me go look at the thread named woot and go to the link on there.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 21
Registered: May-10
Word. I'm still gathering prices on everything. It's looking promising.. I'm starting to dig the idea of having an 18 in the back... Haha. Thanks for the suggestion on the box, I was thinking I needed to ask that actually.

Again, I worry a little about it moving fast enough and being tight sounding... But I believe you guys, I'm sure you've seen enough to vouch. If you have heard the metal I'm talking about where the double bass is hitting 130 - 180 beats per minute 2, 4, 8, and sometimes 16 hits per beat. It's faster than I can tap my hand or mouth. Of course it doesn't go for long period, it's a chorus or verse, transition, blah blah.

Anyhow, I'm thinking it's going to take til the end of the year (maybe longer... trying to plan a trip, I want a new guitar too). We'll see, but I can't wait. I'll be ordering the components from my friend in the next week or two. Then picking up the 200 - 300 dollar items every two weeks. Just waking up, I'll probably check the post Monday. Again, really guys... Thank you for your efforts and the energy you put into helping me.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 13722
Registered: Dec-03
The tightness of a sub sepends not so much on the diameter of the driver, but on the motor strength (Bl curve) since that's what controls the driver movement, the amplifier's damping factor (how well the amp controls the driver) and power applied, as well as what type of box you choose. A sealed box will be tighter (less transient delay than ported) but the cutoff for the driver will be higher and your power handling will be decreased a little as will the overall output.
Ported has more gain (output) around the tuned frequency, and better power handling, but it has some transient delay due to the box's damping characteristics on driver movement. Ported does mask distortion better than sealed though. trade offs to be considered. Low end extension is improved with proted too.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 22
Registered: May-10
Sorry to repeat that question again. I really loved my ported 10's before, so like you said... Gotta decide where I want to go with it, and what trade offs I'm willing to make. I really would like the sonic carnage of the ported, but sealed seems like it would cater to the accuracy I'm looking for... And as you said you the BL and the amp's ability also make that happen. I know that you made the suggestions toward the sub and the amp with that in mind. Also, as you said the motor's strength on that sub driver is really good. The amp you suggested, I haven't compared it to any others yet, but I did look up the amp and the controls. So sick, it looks so awesome. It would allow me to accurately dial in the crossovers.

In your opinion, would you say the Sundown and Fi Q with a ported box tuned to 28hz would still operate with excellent accuracy? I ask this because I don't really understand the technical lingo with car audio. I will be looking it up more and learning, but nothing replaces experience. I figure you have experience and can give me a better answer.

My goals are prioritized like this for the sub:
1) Very, very, very accurate reproduction of speed and tones of bass notes
2) Loud, mind-blowing bass, fits into the overall sound as well without being too overbearing. Hard hits that take my breath away at high volumes.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 13727
Registered: Dec-03
speed and accuracy, go with the Fi Q in a sealed box.
on the Fi Q, go with all the options. High Qts for sealed box, I-Heat Ring, Cooling, and the extra Spider. This makes the sub accurate, designed to be detailed in a sealed box, and it will handle a lot of power.
Go with a big sub. 15" or 18", and you'll get the high output you want too, which will compensate for the -3dB down from ported you get with a sealed box.

by the way, this is very similar to my own setup.
sealed Fi Q 18" fully loaded, with 1200 watts to drive it. (I'm using a 20 year old Orion 2250SX amp for my Q though. That amp is no longer made. For current stuff, the Sundown is outstanding.)
 

Gold Member
Username: Hittin1

TEAM REVOLUTION, La. Lake Charles...

Post Number: 4455
Registered: May-07
a little off topuic, but what type of Metal do you listen too? Death, Nu Metal, Swedish, ect.. What are some of your fav bands?
 

Bronze Member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 23
Registered: May-10
I'm a lover of all kinds of metal. From way back when to modern styles.

What I listen to on a regular basis and I pick apart to learn from to help my own style is all over the place. American and European styles both have characteristics that hit home for me. Some bands have such a unique sound that they cross over into other genres even though they are labeled as one or two. Here's a list of bands with albums I own next to them that I own and really love. Favorite albums first to still loved, but yeah.. You get it.

Lamb of God (Ashes of the Wake, Wrath, As The Palaces Burn, Sacrament)
Nevermore (Dead Heart in a Dead World... own other albums from them, but I can't think of them. They just can't touch Dead Heart in a Dead World anyway)
The Black Dahlia Murder (Nocturnal, Miasma)
All That Remains (Fall of Ideals, The Darkened Heart, Overcome)
The Haunted (The Dead Eye, Revolver, Versus)
Scar Symmetry (Holographic Universe, Pitch Black Progress)
Soilwork (Stabbing the Drama, Sworn to a Great Divide tied with The Chainheart Machine, Natural Born Chaos)
Arch Enemy (Doomsday Machine tied with Wages of Sin)
Pantera (All of them)
In Flames (Come Clarity, Reroute to Remain, Clayman... and others, but the those three are awesome)
Machine Head (The Blackening, Through the Ashes of Empires, The Burning Red)

This post is huge, I'll stop there. I don't mean to sound egotistical or like I know everything, but this is what hits me for this music. Being a musician, maybe I'm more opinionated or it causes me to say more than I need to about it. But yeah. I love metal... Lots of bands have inspirational and powerful lyrical content, instrumentation and composition, and with some... all of it. Anyhow, that's another post or two. How about yourself?
 

Gold Member
Username: Hittin1

TEAM REVOLUTION, La. Lake Charles...

Post Number: 4456
Registered: May-07
*METALLICA
*IN FLAMES
OTEP
OPETH
*TOOL
MACHINEHERAD
SLAYER
*PANTERA
kILLSWITCH ENGAGED
*CLUTCH
SLAYER
BIOHAZARD
HELL YEAH
MUDVAYNE
COC
*APC
*RAM
DEVILDRIVER
DEVIL WEARS PRADA
SOILWORK
*A7X
TYPEONEG
*KORN
DANZIG
IRON MAIDAN
BODOM
DREAM THEATER
*LAMB OF GOD
BULLETS FOR MY VALANTINE
HIM
ACID BATH
HELMET
WHITE ZOMBIE
DISTURBED
*SEVENDUST
HED PE
*SLIPKNOT
40 BELOW SUMMER
BLACK LABEL SOCIETY
TRIVIUM
FROM AUTUMN TO ASHES
SYSTEM OF A DOWN
DOPE
AS I LAY DYING
OLD DEFTONES
MUSHROOMHEAD
CHIMAIRA
DARKEST HOUR
ILL NINO
GOD FORBID


TO NAME A FEW-- SEEN MOST OF THE ABOVE MENTIONED LIVE...
*=FAV'S

I'M SURE THERE ARE 100'S THAT I'M FORGETTING-- YOU KNOW HOW THAT IS .. LOL



SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS
 

Silver Member
Username: Skdooley

Roanoke, VA Usa

Post Number: 758
Registered: Oct-09
Lamb of God is one of my favorite bands as well
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 13729
Registered: Dec-03
I see no mention of 'Priest in these lists, and I am disappointed.
 

Gold Member
Username: Tejcurrent

Post Number: 2251
Registered: Apr-07
Mark if you liked old deftones I'd try their newest cd, it's a bit closer to "around the fur" than the last few.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 24
Registered: May-10
I tried to put from way back when on there... But Iron Maiden, Metallica, Slayer, Judas Priest, Ozzy, Led Zeppelin and on and on... They all deserve kudos, without them we wouldn't have bands that kick so much @ss today. I'm going to Rockstar Energy Mayhem Festival that has a few of the bands we mentioned playing. I'm so psyched. I miss playing onstage though, but finding people you can work with is almost impossible.

So shifting topic back... I read somewhere that a Kicker L7 or Solobaric... A square one... won in a SQL competition. Now I do not want them, I'm very excited about the setup you guys have helped guide me to. I've also read somewhere that a subwoofer only plays 3% or some ridiculously low percentage of the music you listen to, is that how they won? Everyone gives subwoofers such importance, and they are insane pieces sometimes... But did the Kicker L7 or Solobaric not really win the competition, but they were just a piece in an overall awesome system and they skated by?

Because of that, I really can't justify extremely expensive subwoofers (JL Audio) and I'm already imagining the Fi Q 15" or 18" in my truck. I was wondering though, without money in the picture. JL Audio W7 (10", 12", 13.5") vs. Fi Q (15", 18") ... Both in a sealed enclosure in the back of an SUV. Who would win for SQ? I won't ask about SPL, the size difference would just put JL Audio to shame (I'd hope). But SQ.. Anyone have experience with these to be able to say?

I guess I'm just wrapping up the last bit of worry. I have access to JL W7 to listen to them, and recently have and got me mixed up. I have to ask questions to help myself because I have no way of hearing a Fi Q in person.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 25
Registered: May-10
Oops... Maybe just pit the 12" W7 against the Q 15" and the 13.5" W7 against the Q 18".
 

Gold Member
Username: Hittin1

TEAM REVOLUTION, La. Lake Charles...

Post Number: 4457
Registered: May-07
no need for sealed.. If the install and enclosure are done correctly, your SQ will still be there. As far as the Kicketr SQL comment.. Any sub is capable of winning a competition, depends on the cometition level and judge.. Fi Q would own L7's in SQ. not even a comparison..

Missdd 'Priest... unintentionally.

Troy, Around The Fur was good, but Adrinaline was the sh!t!!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 13734
Registered: Dec-03
An L7 won competing against what?
Yes I've seen L7s in an aperiodic enclosure win SQ events, because the enclosure itself masks distortion and has fantastic driver control, which helps mask the downsides of the solobarics, but those square speakers still suffer from being overpriced, tinsel lead slap and separation problems, cone flex distortion from uneven pressure due to the non-linear shape of the cones, and limited excursion because of the design. They're loud, but there are much more linear subs made, for the same money.

your front stage handles 70% or so of the audible range of music, which also encompasses all of the vocals, guitars (lead and rythm) symbols, and so forth. The subs really just cover bass guitar, drums, and synth stuff, which is about 10-30% of the audible range. Just the bottom octave belongs to subs. The reason so much of the overall SPL is from the subs is due to two things. The amount of air the larger speakers move due to excursion and cone area, and applied power in ratio to the rest of the speakers usually, and the fact that becasue human hearing is least sensitive to this range (bottom octave) we tend to jack the living snot out of the subs, as compared to an actual "flat" response curve, which would make the bass sound almost non existent to the human ear.

The L7 winning relied a LOT of the install, system design, the whole rest of the system, and mainly, the enclosure the L7s were in, which if it's the same system I think it is, was aperiodic, and has benefits that pretty much hid the shortcomings of the solobarics. I think that competitor was also sponsored by kicker.

The Fi, in my opinion would be a more accurate sub because it's hand built per order, and it can be customized to the application. The W7 is a balance of high output and remaining linear at high excursion, and while it is a great sub, it's not the best sub ever made, by any measure.

As for going sealed or ported.. wll, you can always build both and see which you prefer Sell the one you don't want!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 26
Registered: May-10
Word. I didn't bring that up cause I wanted an L7, I've heard far too much information on 'em that I'd only accept it if it were free and unused. Which will never happen, so... Honestly, I just wanted to see why in your guy's opinions that would happen, and I really love learning about this stuff. I also wanted to hear a little more trash talking about that sub.

Anyways, I realized the redundancies in this post from myself, and I apologize. I have decided now! Thank you guys for your patience with me. I spoke to my friend (the JL guy) about this diamond of a forum and what I've learned from it. I think he wants an Fi Q now, haha. Anyhow, it all clicked with his experience and he's stoked to work with me on the install, and so now it begins.. purchasing piece by piece.

The finalized list thanks to you guys:

Front door speakers - Polk Audio SR 6500 Components

Rear passenger speakers - 6 1/2 Midbass drivers (looking at a pair of Soundstreams.. handle 100wrms)

Sundown SAX 100.4D to run the interior speakers (4ohms a speaker will give them 100wrms... 25 under what the SR6500's can handle, but I figure it should be cool and will meet the midbass drivers right on)

Sundown SAZ-1000D, SAZX-1500D, or SAE-1200D V.2 for the subwoofer.. which will deliver anywhere from 1000wrms - 1500wrms

Fi Q 15" in a sealed enclosure. The Q will have the options: High Qts, I-Heat Ring, Cooling, and the extra Spider. I still need to figure out what size the enclosure should be, and I'm still debating on a 15" or 18". But I found out that one 15" has more cone area than two 10's from a chart that I found on Steve Meade's site. My old setup with two 10's ported and 320wrms got pretty loud to me... So if I want ridiculous, this should do it for me.

As far as sound deadening and electrical upgrades.. They will come into play, but I will figure them out when I'm close to installing the big stuff.

So again, THANK YOU guys. I read a couple of posts from people on here that you guys like pictures. So as I move along I will take pictures and post them either when I'm done.. which will be a long time from now, or I will post as I got along. If anyone has input on enclosure size or if I should send a message to bassman3 to build the enclosure, I'll do it.
 

Silver Member
Username: Gcs8

Atlanta, Ga

Post Number: 533
Registered: Sep-09
dude that just about sounds like me dream system, those polks will need about a week to break in and sound right, just a heads up.

dont worrie about not giving the polks that last 25 watts you wont miss it.

i would say let bassman3 build your box it may be a little more then having it done locally but its worth it in every way.

keep us updated my man.
 

Gold Member
Username: Dustin3

Box Designer & Builder...Dustin

Post Number: 5612
Registered: Oct-05
If your interested Willie, just shoot me an email at :

DLaudiotech@gmail.com

and thanks everyone for the recommendations!
 

Platinum Member
Username: Rovin

1 15 = 152.5 DBs ...Trinidad & T...

Post Number: 16346
Registered: Jul-05
havent read through this entire thread but i just read his last post & its good to know u guys help put him on the right track

his final list looks good except for the soundstream speakers , u might as well pick something from polk instead if u insist on using rear speakers but i glimpse in some posts above that GW posted his link on that subject which i totally agree with ...
 

Bronze Member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 27
Registered: May-10
Yeah, GW suggested that I get sealed Midbass drivers, and that it really doesn't matter what company as long as they handle the wrms. He said not to get just mid speakers, so I did look at Polk, but they have no sealed midbass drivers. But yeah, my system has taken a wild turn from what it was going to be. I'm more excited than before, 'cause it has shaped up to be a more beastly system than I had imagined.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 28
Registered: May-10
I'm curious. How will my passengers hear the highs and mids? Should it be loud enough to carry? Should I maybe get components for the rear passengers instead of midbass drivers? Also, I might be going with the Polk Audio MM components, my buddy only has 5 1/4 Polk Audio SR comps. Plus I'd save $160 dollars per a pair, is it worth the difference in sound? I looked up prices and MM's go for 300 bucks per pair of 6 1/2 comps. So to get 'em at 90 bucks is a steal. Anyways, I don't know. Your guy's thoughts on it?
 

Silver Member
Username: Gcs8

Atlanta, Ga

Post Number: 534
Registered: Sep-09
i only run a front stage of polks and its pluntly loud.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 29
Registered: May-10
Anyone else have opinions on the MM6501s?

So other than that.. I've been looking at other subwoofers. Here's two that really interest me..

Ascendant Audio Havoc 15"
SSA XCON 15"

Those two look pretty tasty and affordable (not too much more than the Fi). And there's two others.. IDMAX and the Soundsplinter's. But I haven't looked into them too much. XCON is quite intriguing though. I read somewhere the guys who do the Fi subs make Ascendant and that their supposed to be more oriented towards SQ. Anyways, sorry to beat a dead horse, hopefully this livens it up a little bit.
 

Silver Member
Username: Cwruck

Post Number: 171
Registered: Feb-10
not a big fan of polks.. but thats my ears.
ive heard good things about both of those subs, but i say just stick with an Fi Q. Thats fi's straight sq sub, and with a huge power handling with the options you are getting and being sealed it will sound wonderful im sure, never heard an Fi Q yet, but im going to put an 18 q in my bmw in about 2 weeks from now. but everything i have heard about the q is just good, nothing bad at all
 

Gold Member
Username: Kyle_lowe

Post Number: 1117
Registered: Apr-06
i dont think they make idmax in a 15

i run a Fi ssd 12 right now so i can attest to the quality of Fi subwoofers and the Q would no doubt be a good option.

the xcon is kinda hard to compare to some of the others because of the significantly higher power handling but i would only assume that it is a great sub as well.

I think Fi and AA are in the same buildhouse but thats not necessarily to say they are the same although i have heard a few older avalanches and they sounded great.

as for soundsplinter i can personally say that the rl-p gets nasty low and is extremely efficient. easily the best woofer i have ever owned.

basically what i am saying is that you really cant go wrong with any of the subs that you have narrowed it down to. you are going to get different opinions from us because we all have our personal preferences. ill suggest the rl-p because i can say it is the best i have ever owned. glasswolf will say go with the q because he runs one right now and seems to love it.

what i really suggest if for you to decide which you like the most out of any that we have suggested. you have pretty much let us decide your whole system for you. there is nothing wrong with that, but now that you know what your options are go ahead and take some time and decide for yourself. give it some of your own personality, not ours.
 

Silver Member
Username: Gcs8

Atlanta, Ga

Post Number: 536
Registered: Sep-09
hunt down the parts you are instred in and give them a lisssion.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 13740
Registered: Dec-03
If you're worried about people in the back then sure, get components or midrange drivers.
I'd still cut them off at 5KHz LPF, and about 250Hz HPF if you go mids. It won't sound fantastic in back, but my view on that is f*** em. If they want a good stereo, they can buy their own car. They should be happy you're spending your gas money to haul the little leeches around!
Make it sound good to YOU (and the wife if there is one to worry about)

On the sub, you might, might want to consider dropping the I heat ring and high Qts options, if you want the option to switch to a ported box if the sealed isn't enough for you. Going sealed to ported will gain you about +3 to +5dB output. That's considerable.

On the components, it's up to you. Polk is OK for cars, but that big of a drop in cost is going to be noticeable in the sound.
Take a look at Focal (polyglass line perhaps) or DLS or DynAudio if you want some outstanding components, too.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 30
Registered: May-10
Kyle, thanks for your input dude. I'm feeling good about the Q. I'm sure it's like you said... I'm looking at a few of the baddest muscle cars of subwoofers, and any of them will satisfy me. I think everyone here has done a bad@ss job of taking every detail of what I wanted in my system and tailoring one to fit. I'm surprised you guys didn't tell me f*** off, which maybe you felt that way.. Anyway, thanks for your guy's patience.

GW, I feel like that, dude. But I feel like I'm being selfish, but I've got issues, so anyway.. You're right and ultimately I've gotta be happy with it. So I'll start researching again for components. I went towards Polk Audio 'cause I have no experience, read some a bunch of great reviews and saw I could get a fat deal on 'em. My buddy's SR's sound pretty good.. But honestly, there was something that just didn't hit me right about 'em... There was something missing, but I can't put a label on it. I think that's why I don't want to spend the money on 'em. Guitar solos, rhythms, effects over riffs, intricate riffing, cymbals... etc, the components have gotta pull that detail through brilliantly. At the same time, I'm not really digging the idea of spending more than 250 bucks on a pair... But if I want to do it right the first time, it'll be worth saving a little longer and being patient... I'm telling myself this at the same time. I'll check out the brands you suggested, and see what I can find. If you have any suggestions that pop up, feel free to throw 'em my way.

As for the subwoofer, I'm digging the sealed approach for the sub because what I'm hearing is that it will be more accurate and have more definition. But I did like the sound of my two 10's in a ported box, which ran off a Rockford Fosgate amp rated at 300wrms (it actually put out 320wrms... amazing, I know, I know). They were Crossfire Performance subwoofers.. which is probably nothing in comparison to what I'm looking at now, so yeah. I don't know.. I'll keep searching info out to make a decision on ported or sealed.

Anyone live in Northern California that wanna demo some Fi Qs and bad@ss comps? I'll also look into dealers that are somewhat close by and make a trip out to check out some comps... And Vegas is too far to go and simply check out some subs. Plus not really a good place for me to go if I'm trying to save money to do this.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 13745
Registered: Dec-03
when speakers don't sound right but you can't pinpoint why, it can often be subtle things, like speaker positioning, or cabin response, a lack of power to bring them to life, issues with time delay, phasing, etc.. hard to say.
I've said it before, but once again, the front stage is important. Mine was $1200 for the speakers. It's sad when people spend $2000 on subs and sub amps, then buy cheap front speakers and don't even amp them, then wonder why the system sounds like p*ss. Anyway, I know money is tight all over, but car audio isn't a cheap hobby if you do it right. Always something to keep in mind.

The reason I think you weren't told to "f*** off out my kitchen" (as Gordon Ramsay would say) is becaue you asked a fairly decent first question in the original post. It wasn't another typical "wut subz R louder than everything else for $70????!!!?!?!*%*(%^#"
I skip right over the "wut subz R gud" threads, honestly.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 33
Registered: May-10
Thanks. You know I was thinking about that.. A sub and box are going to be close to $700... Then the amp will put it around $1,100 for the sub section after tax. Front stage comps ($200-$350), midbass drivers (not sure yet which ones I'll be getting... not putting a lot of energy since, like you said, it'll be filler), and a four channel ($320 for the SD) will be about the same for the sub section. With what I put on the speakers section of the forum, which you responded to, am I going in the right direction or am I still shooting myself in the foot?

I'm also starting to think things over. Whether it's worth it or not, not to discredit everyone's assistance or anything. But it is looking expensive. I landed this killer job, and it's been so great, so I'm going for things that I've always wanted. Waiting on the muscle car, thinking about a trip out of country at the end of 2011, and so I thought... my sh*t got ripped off, I'm gonna do the system I always wanted. If I do a little at a time, I don't think it's a big deal, just gotta have patience... But then at the same time I'm questioning whether it's worth it or not. Anyway, I gotta find a support forum now.

But yeah, am I heading in the right direction for what I posted initially? Or am I shooting myself in the foot?
 

Gold Member
Username: Kyle_lowe

Post Number: 1119
Registered: Apr-06
you could always scale down what you are wanting to do.
go with a SSD instead of a Q
go with Audioque amps instead of Sundown.
that would save $225 alone and it is still good quality stuff

i honestly think the mm components will do just fine. I cant say for sure but i used to run some polk subs and they were very nice for what i paid for them. and they held up very well when when i know i was overpowering them. polk may not make the most expensive and top of the line equipment but it is still quality stuff. especially if you are rethinking what you want to spend, go with the mm's.

your electrical upgrades should not have to be too extreme. something like a 160-180 amp alternator and an optima yellow top should suit you fine.

just doing some quick estimates and i am thinking around $1400 for everything except for the midbass drivers.

if that still seems a bit too pricey you could consider buying your stuff used and save even more money. in fact everything i am currently running was bought used.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Post Number: 13749
Registered: Dec-03
first thing I'd buy is a decent alarm system
 

Bronze Member
Username: Willieesp

Post Number: 34
Registered: May-10
Alarm system check. Got a 300 dollar Viper system with the auto start and stuff. One of the many fantasies for a vehicle fulfilled. I got installed when I bought that Pioneer MVHP8200BT... which I did hold back on, I wanted the big fancy one, but figured this has 4V preamp outputs and an 8-band graphic EQ w/ bells and whistles, so I settled.

Otherwise.. I don't want to scale down (the little kid in me screams). Ha.

Anyhow, yeah. I'm rethinking some things. Ultimately, I think I'm going to start saving, keep researching, maybe wait for the tax return. I've done two half way systems... Half way to what I really wanted. So far I'm feeling real good about saving and researching. I've been researching almost everyday, letting it soak in... Whatever happens system wise, I will definitely put a post up when I start and put up pictures. But I may have to change the plans to where I save and do it later. I hate to tell myself to put it off, but I really want to do it right when I do it.
 

Silver Member
Username: Rosrock

Michigan

Post Number: 257
Registered: Mar-09
worst comes to worse... if u decide to change ur stuff out and try something different after a few months(like most do here including me) then you can just sell ur stuff for 70%+ of its original value and keep swapping in and out.. bass is addicting
 

Silver Member
Username: Sleste8

Shelbyville, MI United States

Post Number: 179
Registered: Mar-10
^x2 thats the best way to do it. and i never would of thought that quality car audio holds it's value so well. but it sure does..

i want some bass right now, i think ill drive to the store...lol
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