Home Audio!
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Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 1779 Registered: May-05 | ok. so you know how car audio has like 10-20 exceptional subs, components, and amps. i just went to tower record to make my typical car audio mag run and came accross the regular same 'ol flashy, gawdy, 50 monitor installs with garbage products. so i get it any way like a typically end up doin, lol. but this time i mozied on over to the home audio section. they had like 10 mags to grab. so i did, and goodness. they had top quality components from all over. plenty of them. i was always stuck on harmaon kardon, marantze, onkyo, and denon etc. i'm blown away. i've found my new hobby. for real. now i just have to take the time while learning the technical aspect of the art/hobby to actually be able to save up for it. incredibly expensive (and we pitch over 400.00 subs). i read a thread earlier about how slow they are over on that forum. you're right. it's a broke forum, imo. but this really reminds me of how things were for car audio in the late '80s early 90's. x10. if any on knows of a home audio forum worth being on, please advise. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 5033 Registered: May-04 | Don't really know of any forums, but as far as equipment, check out Martin Logan Electrostatic panels. Once you listen to them, you'll be drooling. SEAS Excel kits are nice and aren't terribly expensive, either. |
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Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 1781 Registered: May-05 | yeah. i read an article on the electrostatic technology. definitely the future. great technology. fairly simple too. if i do happen to listen to them, i'm sure my priorities will quickly become misplaced. i looked at some of the turn tables and cd players they produce overseas. remarkable. looks like odd pieces of art. fun stuff. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3855 Registered: Jun-04 | Yes I was just like you mikechec9 I was into car audio first for years before I got into home audio on a more serious level and just like car audio I was convinced I needed alot of power to get the sound and output i wanted we all usually dream of the monster power amps and such but soon come to realize what we really love is the SOUND in a balanced fashion anything less isnt true music to your ears not to mention it doesnt take much volume to damage hearing so I say protect it so you can continue to enjoy the art/hobby you love A future piece I plan on buying to create my ideal system is going to be a tube amplifier |
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Silver Member Username: Touche6784USA Post Number: 798 Registered: Nov-04 | uh mike, electrostats are a well established idea in home audio. dont know what your budget for home speakers but most electrostats start in the thousands each and they require very high quality power, talking about thousands of dollars worth of equipment, to really make the speakers sing. nester in a moron and posted in the home THEARTER forum which is different from the home AUDIO forum. only way to learn about home audio is to get your feet wet. hope you do make some visits to the home audio section. we arent dead, its just mostly filled with older people usually at work or not as bored and surfing the net all day long. |
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Silver Member Username: MixneffectOrangevale, Ca. USA Post Number: 646 Registered: Apr-05 | Martin Logan has been spotted in China. Ouch, thats gotta hurt! I started building DIY speaker kits since 1987. I was into home audio and still am. I preffer home audio over car audio anyday. The only reason I come to this forum is to help. I believe that the subwoofer section needs the most help. There are too many people giving bad advice, and because I feel with the novices, I try and make some sense of it and offer my free advice. As far as the home audio section on this forum is concerned I gave up on them. They know it all. There are people in there just sittin bored out of their minds and typing up a bunch a garbage. Some have bought some pretty expensive garbage speakers (Bose, Infinity, etc...) and they feel that they are audiofiles. They get involved in just about every thread and just (IMHO) give bad advice. To make the matter worse, I met one of the veteran posters in the home audio section. His name is Jan Vigne. Ya I know "Jan", but they say it is a male. lol Anyways He is supposedly a salesman in some audio shop in Texas. I responded to a thread when he got involved and went completely psycho. I then questioned his credentials. Thats when the %$#@ hit the fan. He has none you see. So that pissed him off and because he has been here for a real long time and no one has called his bluff, he thinks he is actually right. I wasnt looking for any trouble, but I think I have the right to question someones sources especially when their advice is wrong. To make a long story longer... He got so upset that he asked the admin to delete that thread. Ha Ha Ha. Thats how low of a scumbag he really is. He needs his reputation. Just thought I would warn you guys if by some chance you get to run into Jan Vigne. IMHO he is a parrot. He just repeats everything he hears from others or reads from a magazine. He has no real knowlege. He doesnt comprehend this science. |
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Silver Member Username: Touche6784USA Post Number: 799 Registered: Nov-04 | is that why you stopped posting? im sorry that is how you think of the that section of the forum but honestly, how much did you try to participate there? your attitude could be seen in the opposite light that you think you are too good for that section or the members that frequent it. i mean bill gates has no credentials, he dropped out of college. if thats the only way you judge people than i feel sorry for you. even if he is just repeating info, it is hell of alot more than any of us know. but i do agree that there are many idiot posters in the home audio section, but i find there to be more here making far less inteligibe remarks. maybe its the demographic. |
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Silver Member Username: Touche6784USA Post Number: 800 Registered: Nov-04 | oh, and if you want to talk about garbage, there is way more garbage noob posts here than the home audio section. dont get me wrong, i appreciate both sections of this forum, just dont go bashing on members when you barely participated. |
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Silver Member Username: MixneffectOrangevale, Ca. USA Post Number: 647 Registered: Apr-05 | I dont go there because it is rigged. There are a lot of people that talk the talk but they cant walk the walk. Jan Vigne is an excellent example. Obviously you are a supporter of him and it wouldnt matter if he was wrong on any issue. Personally this forum doesnt make me. I have built a lot of systems and dont come to this forum for answers. Besides Jan may be selling some of the stuff that I have worked on. I will not mention name brands because I am not looking for publication. Yes like I said before, this section needs a lot of help. Thats why I come here, to help. |
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Silver Member Username: MixneffectOrangevale, Ca. USA Post Number: 648 Registered: Apr-05 | Getting back to the thread; Mike, In home audio there are thousands, tens of thousands of different manufacturers. There are however but a handfull of factories that actually manufacture the speakers in reality. Most of the speaker manufacturers used to be european and some in Boston Massachusets. Thats where a lot of speakers were made, hence Boston Acoustics. A lot has changed as of lately. The American economy has changed from manufacturing to management, sales, and grunt labor. Where has the manufacturing jobs gone? China, and other developing countries. When you buy a speaker anymore, do not go by the sticker or emblem on the outside. Chances are that it was actually made overseas. My mentor (in speaker building) goes to China quite often and every time he comes back. There is yet more sad news every time. Fisrt it was garbage stuff like pioneer, jbl, altec lansing, then the european companies started to come to China. Vifa being on of the first. Remember that Vifa, Seas, and Peerless is owned by the same parent company. They alone, manufacture for many so called brand names out on the market. If they have their stuff made in China what do they really do anyways, if they used to be the middle-man? Well, there are a lot of other higher end stuff being manufactured in China now. Like I said, "Martin Logan". Wow, that disappoints me. Basicly what I am trying to say is. Everybody is joining the band wagon. In the 80's it was all about a wider bandwith. Thats why there were so many 15" 3-way systems back then. The 90's were all about the 6 1/2" 2-way. Everybody copied the leader. In the new millenium it is the garbage 5.1. Everywhere you look you see a HT surround sound system. I think even "Fisher Price"(childrens toys) have one. lol So to answer the question, What are the top home audio speakers?", would be hard to say. Everyone is copying each other, and they are all made in the same factory. Yes, under the same roof. In the display room there in China, you will see hundreds of brand names sittin on the shelf next to the competitor. Ha Ha Ha. This really scares me. If all the money goes to China, where does America stand? The growth in China is reaching an epidemic. From what my mentor is saying is that from the hotel to the speaker factory, he counted like 200 other factories (20 min drive). |
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Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 1784 Registered: May-05 | First (and I have to start w/this). I've run into Jan. Tore him a new one. Had my post deleted after a day, but it shut "him" up pretty quick. Yes, he's in all likely hood a Psychopath, lol. As far as electrostats: I'm familiar with martin logans and their cost, but the technology isn't nearly as widespread as I believe it will be. the advantages of the quick transients via low mass diaphragms hasn't yet revolutionized the field, but it certainly has the potential to do so. with regards to the avg home audio "forumist", I take each with a grain of salt, but they come off as pretentious "upities" that have no respect for car audio enthusiasts. although this sentiment is not without merit, I learn everyday. and I'm quick to humble myself in a field where I have no experience. but an audiophile is an audiophile. while I don't need a forum to help validate my credentials, my posts and car audio system speak for themselves. respect should be due regardless (good 'ol jan, lol). and I don't deal with "budget systems." this is what fascinates me about the Meridian, Wadia, Naim, Verdi, Pro-Ject, Avid, Krell.. the list goes on. as a music producer I have used all types of high end/top shelf equipment in studios, but to see it carry over into the home is truly fascinating to me. car audio has a dumber, or at least less interested/well-to-do market every year (on a whole. i genuinely love the passionate die-hards). so they dumb down the products to best sell to that fan base. "throw a system in it and ride" vs owning a home and purchasing equipment that will likely be there for the duration of that home (in at least some capacity). it's a big difference. and oftentimes its also a matter of maturity. how many teen-agers own a home vs a car? so anyway, I'm looking forward to learning more about this "home audio" thing. it might take me a couple years to be in the position to afford the system I want, but that will give me the time I need to learn what's the best system for me and to win a few trophies before I gracefully bow out  |
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Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 1785 Registered: May-05 | "Fisrt it was garbage stuff like pioneer, jbl, altec lansing, then the european companies started to come to China." it's a matter of capitalism. go with what yields the highest dollar. this just doesn't have as negative effect on home audio as it does on car audio because of the relative number of home audiophiles. as for altec lansing being "garbage stuff", that is about equally as sad as capitalism. in the 30's through the early 70's Altec Lansing was THE premier audio company. it was a product of technology from the Western Electric company. when the govt went after W.E. for antitrust, they were given the choice of giving up audio or the phone business. let's just say they didn't drop the phone business. as a result, most of the top brass audio engineers ever out of work. so they started a company called Altec since they were "all technicians." the "Lansing" suffix was from one of our car audio celebrities James B. Lansing (JBL-yet more "garbage stuff", lol). they were beasts without equal in speakers, mixing consoles, mics, transformers, amps, all of it. so, they ran sh!t. poor management and capitalism (soundstream-esque) is the only reason we now see them as "garbage stuff" today. i have a great deal of respect for them. but anyway, a liberal view would be to structure it so that only a certain percentage of manufacturing can be overseas, while a radical one would be to reform captialism into something that's not quite... capitalism. i subscribe to the radical philosophy |
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Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 1786 Registered: May-05 | "What are the top home audio speakers?" hate to pose a view on a subject so foreign, but i've been reading (not listening), and the popular opinion goes to B&W 802D, Vivid Audio B1, and Martin Logan Summits, respectively. |
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Silver Member Username: RedskinLondonEngland Post Number: 231 Registered: Dec-03 | Are we talking ready built by a manufacturer or raw drive units to be used in home built enclosures? |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3862 Registered: Jun-04 | Mikechec9 another way you could do your home speakers when your ready is do it yourself. A guy with your audio knowledge and experience would grasp home audio principles pretty easily esp with the help of other memebers on this message board. i bring this up becuase building it yourself can be fun and SOMETIMES cheaper not to mention is gets you out of the HOME AUDIO box and into your own creative concepts as you see fit. |
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Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 1788 Registered: May-05 | good point sean. i could still stand to learn more in the audio trade. i pretty much know what an excellent car system sounds like, and am currently mastering the art of tuning for that effect. i'm sure that home audio, as jonathan put it, would leave me drooling. so i'll likely get a good reference set, and then once I truly get those principles down and know what a sweet set-up for the home sounds like, i'll take you up on that advice and get creative with it. the difference seems to be that while there is a LOT of room for improvement and improv in car audio (install, pld/t.a., eq, xo) H.A. appears to stand significantly closer to perfect "after purchase". so, correct me in my error, but if the raw driver production is truly as monopolized as Mix suggests, it would seem that it's mostly a matter of enclosures that make the difference (electrostats not withstanding). so yeah, regardless, it's certainly something to look forward to. i'm pleased it's as much of an option as it is. it's also good to know i have all experienced here to nudge me in the right direction. even though i know this forum gets bland periodically. (let's do our best to try and get you all to hang around, eh?) |
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Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 1790 Registered: May-05 | . |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3865 Registered: Jun-04 | Well as many times as I have thought about leaving ecoustics I never seem to do so something just keeps me here so no fear of that mikechec9 LOL. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3866 Registered: Jun-04 | Mikechec9 heres a good article for you and they talk about electrostatic speakers and how he built his own plus some history from his 30 year experience http://www.earthcurrents.com/london-live/systems/LD_system.htm heres the site I got it from http://www.earthcurrents.com/london-live/projs.htm |
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Silver Member Username: MixneffectOrangevale, Ca. USA Post Number: 649 Registered: Apr-05 | "so, correct me in my error, but if the raw driver production is truly as monopolized as Mix suggests, it would seem that it's mostly a matter of enclosures that make the difference (electrostats not withstanding)." Actualy there are a couple of things, not just enclosures. The crossover networks help flatten out dips and peaks. Also, design. There are DIY drivers that you can buy from Seas, Dynaudio, Focal, Morel, Eaton, Accuton, etc... that were actually prototypes. These drivers that we buy as DIY raw drivers were actually ideas in the making, and for some reason through all the red tape, someone pulled the plug and changed the design in the last minute, and/or other misc executive decisions." Wilson audio uses DIY drivers. Well not exactly 100% the ones that me and you can buy. They order drivers with more or less inductance on the former. They might change the suspension a little. They might ask that the diaphragm be lighter or heavier. Blah Blah Blah. The list goes on and on. Pretty much we are looking at a modified raw driver when we look at a so called name brand speaker on a shelf in the store. What do you think parts express is? How about madisound. What about zalytron? How bout solen? They are merely supply houses that sell change orders that didnt fall through. Do you think GMC manufactures all of their parts? No. They contract out all of it. They just assemble it. They probably just manage it. It seems all of the manufacturing jobs are going elsewhere. I have a pile of raw drivers that are sittin on my floor as we speak. These are drivers that just didnt cut it. If I show you them, you will say, hey that looks like an infiniti kappa perfect or this one looks like a diamond audio hex or ... well actually it looks like it, but it has a different cone. Perhaps the cone has a layer of alluminum sandwiched in between instead of nomex. Stuff like that. |
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New member Username: LicidOhio USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Dec-05 | Check out the jl gotham. http://www.audioholics.com/cedia/cedia2004/JLAudioGothamFathomsub.php |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3867 Registered: Jun-04 | nice jesse thanks for sharing I like the ideas jl came up with |
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Bronze Member Username: Audiowizard69Post Number: 58 Registered: Nov-05 | well i got curious so i brought car audio to the home and introduced the two. i have 2 10 inch woofers,a 600 watt amp and a car cd player in my bedroom its very cool. |
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