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Custom Sub box..???

 

Silver Member
Username: Mixmastaspig

Okanagan, B.C Canada

Post Number: 259
Registered: Sep-05
I am looking at the Pioneer Premier
TS-W3004SPL...but the dual 2 ohm version. And I was wondering if you build a box to specs under the SPL is that the OPTIMUM box size to get the most SPL from that sub...plus as a daily driver?
And can you move the ports around but keep the box size the same or deos it have to be exactly where they tell you to put the ports?
Cause I thought the closer your subs are the louder and the specs on this subs is to have the ports in the middle....so could you put the ports off to the side and have the subs as close as possible??

thanks!

 

Silver Member
Username: Mixneffect

Orangevale, Ca. USA

Post Number: 482
Registered: Apr-05
2076_4061_232689560_tab=B%2C00.html?compName=PNA_ProductDetailComponent,http://w ww.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4061_232689560_tab=B,00.htm l?compName=PNA_ProductDetailComponent

According to their webbsites specifications; it is recommended for enclosures ranging from 0.85 ~ 1.75 Cubic Feet. I havent found what they recommend sealed or ported.

I have BassBox Pro6 and can run the numbers for you if you are interested. I will need the following data;

Fs=
Qms=
Qes=
Qts=
Vas=
Sd=
Re=

This program will recommend different "OPTIMUM" sizes compared to the manufacturer. Dont worry it has been compared to other programs and it is accurate.

One thing about this program is that its "OPTIMUM" recomendations isnt set for SPL. It is rather set for efficiency. In other words it is programed to get the most out of a small box while still maintaining a flat response and sound quality.

If you are looking for an SPL box for this driver, then identify the Qts of the driver. This will tell you weather this driver is more suited for a sealed enclosure or a ported enclosure.

Qts below 35 = ported
Qts above 40 = sealed
Qts between 35-40 = either ported or sealed
Qts above 50 = infinite baffle or free air (no box)

As far as ports are concerned; keep the ports from being in the center of the driver. It is better for the air to travel inside the box a little (resonate) before it leaves the box. If you cannot fit the port in the box as a straight shot, you can bend it using 90* elbows (if you are using PVC. If you decide to go with a slot port, then the box will have to be designed carefully. Also keep the port end at least 3" away from the wall so it can breathe.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mixmastaspig

Okanagan, B.C Canada

Post Number: 260
Registered: Sep-05
I have NO idea what those specs are:
Fs=
Qms=
Qes=
Qts=
Vas=
Sd=
Re=

Yeah I will find out how big my trunk is....have to wait till spring car is in storage....ALl I know is I want ported and for the subs to be as CLOSE in the middle as possible with ports on the side kinda like:

http://www.kalyx.com/store/images/XEP212.jpg
 

Silver Member
Username: Mixneffect

Orangevale, Ca. USA

Post Number: 484
Registered: Apr-05
These specs are called Thiel Small Parameters.

There is also Thiel Large Parameters which include the small plus more. The large or (complete parameters) are used to configure the X-over.

For enclosures all you need is the thiel small parameters. Look in the box that the subs came in, sometimes they include them in the package. You may also find them on the internet.

That box you pasted on here is not good. Try to find one that has separate chambers for each driver. It would be better because each driver has its own chamber and limits interference. Also if one sub goes out, then the other will sound bad because it now has twice the amount of air space.

IMO I would stay away from slot ports because they are permanent. Try to find a sealed box without ports and then you can cut out the port size that you wish. and you could play with the port diameter this way. Its good to have options.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mixmastaspig

Okanagan, B.C Canada

Post Number: 261
Registered: Sep-05
Specs for sub boxes are on the main page

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_11221/217888139TRD1263-A_UC.pdf

Im not too sure cause I registered to read that..so it may not work.

Box looks like what I drew for the subs

image/bmpUpload
SUBBOX.bmp (80.0 k)
 

Silver Member
Username: Mixneffect

Orangevale, Ca. USA

Post Number: 492
Registered: Apr-05
Pioneer Premier TS W 3002 SPL DVC 2 Ohm

FS=25.5
QMS=13.9
QES=.29
QTS=.29
SD=.0423 sq m
RE=1.5
Vas=1.315 cubic foot

Sealed = Red
VB=.278 cubic foot
F3=71.25 Hz
No stuffing.

Ported = Yellow
VB=.459 cubic foot
FB=33.16 Hz
F3=45.31 Hz
DV=1"
LV=4.59"
No stuffing.

X-bass = Blue
VB=.731 cubic foot
FB=27.21 Hz
F3=42.81 Hz
DV=1.5"
LV=9.255"
No stuffing.

I find these numbers to be strange for a 12" driver. The Vas is extremely low. The Qes is also Extremely low. The Qms is extremely high. The SD is also extremely high (it adds up to that of an 18" driver).

The aftermath reveals and extremely small box for a 12". I am not sure if I made a mistake or the data furnished by Pioneer is incorrect.

Anyways here it is.

Upload
 

Silver Member
Username: Mixneffect

Orangevale, Ca. USA

Post Number: 493
Registered: Apr-05
Another thing that I find strange is that for a driver that has an Fs of 25.5 Hz, the boxes only improve the response down to 42.81 at best.

Ask someone that has a WIN ISD and see if they come up with anything different. If it is the same, then wow.

As for your design, it is excellent. Nice placement for the ports, and the middle divider is great.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mixmastaspig

Okanagan, B.C Canada

Post Number: 262
Registered: Sep-05
So would these subs perform well with 1000 watts each @ 2 ohm bridged, or 1000 @ 1 ohm seperate channels?
I want somthing that will hit some good numbers on the SPL!...but I want it to be a daily driver set up too!

So on the comapny website how big is the reccomened box size?...will it fit nicely in an average trunk?

thanks!
 

Silver Member
Username: Mixmastaspig

Okanagan, B.C Canada

Post Number: 263
Registered: Sep-05
Oh and the above specs are RMS
 

Silver Member
Username: Mixmastaspig

Okanagan, B.C Canada

Post Number: 264
Registered: Sep-05
Any more help!?
thanks!
 

Silver Member
Username: Redskin

LondonEngland

Post Number: 205
Registered: Dec-03
Thiele Small parameters are named after Mr Theile and Mr Small ther aren't small and large. The SD is actually a bit undersize for a 12" but I assume thats because it's got a large surround if it was the same as an 18" it would have an SD of around 0.12m^2 and not 0.0423m^2. Why not just use pioneers box recomenations? Using a 1.75cuft box tuned to 35hz gives you an F3 at 30hz admittedly with a peak at tuning.
 

Silver Member
Username: Redskin

LondonEngland

Post Number: 206
Registered: Dec-03
Thiele Small parameters are named after Mr Theile and Mr Small there aren't small and large ones. The SD is actually a bit undersize for a 12" but I assume thats because it's got a large surround if it was the same as an 18" it would have an SD of around 0.12m^2 and not 0.0423m^2. Why not just use pioneers box recomenations? Using a 1.75cuft box tuned to 35hz gives you an F3 at 30hz admittedly with a peak at tuning.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mixmastaspig

Okanagan, B.C Canada

Post Number: 266
Registered: Sep-05
So, just use the reccomened boc size from Pioneer...sounds easy enough!.....but as far as tuning goes if you build the box to their specs..what is it tuned in??
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