Im looking for a pair of 12's to go in a sealed enclosure. I was thinking about either the SX(mainly for ported enclosures right?) or the Shiva's but wasnt sure if the shivas were spl or sq drivers. Please voice opinions over these subs, also others are welcome. $500 budget, KX1200.1 running them. any info about the IDMAX would also be appreciated along with other decent spl subs.
The SX is actually geared twoards SPL. Not as much as MT, but it definitely wasn't created with the same goals as the XXX. As for enclosure types, it performs best in a ported enclosure.
The Shiva's a great SQ woofer that does well in sealed enclosures. With the amount of power you have available I'd probably consider either a single SX or two SE's.
RE MT is under $500 and it will out perform JL W7 at high volume. I've tested it today at a car audio shop. At low volume, W7 sounds great, better than MT. At high volume 1000w rms or higher, MT wins. My MT sounded almost 1.5x louder than the JL W7 in it's HO box, and it didn't distort.
The MT is in no way comparable to the W7 in SQ. You're talking about an all out SPL sub vs. one of the best high output SQ subs on the market. You have to realize that once you're playing a sub at high volumes, it's harder to detect distortion. Real SQ isn't played at 140+db's for music.
I'm sure the MT does sound decent for an SPL sub. I've heard it from many people who compete with them. But, comparing it to the W7 in the SQ department is crazy.
Also, what enclosures were used for testing and what vehicle?
Dave, don't let the MT fool you. Yes it is designed for SPL. However, as I stated numerous times before, with 5cu ft of space and large port area, it can and will produce all the low bass notes you want. The thing with MT is, it needs lot of power. Once you supply that, you'll be surprised with the results. Don't listen to your friends competing in SPL events. Those setup will not produce anything that can be remotely close to W7. When I went in for the demo today, I was willing to purchase W7 if they could prove it sounded better than my MT setup. They clearly knew that. So when those guys couldn't say much after the demo, what does that tell you about my MT?
"Dave, don't let the MT fool you. Yes it is designed for SPL. However, as I stated numerous times before, with 5cu ft of space and large port area, it can and will produce all the low bass notes you want." an SPL sub is capable of produciong all the low notes you want. that's not what sq refers to. the W7 and the MT aren't even in the same league/class/genre/division. completely different drivers. the MT DOES get low and loud, but is not responsive at all. you are not going to hear Stevie Wonder's "innervisions" as a complete song through an MT. it's not musical. it will reproduce bass well, but not accurately. the w7 on the other hand is most comparable to sq of xxx, brahma, id max. it's just a relatively boomy sub, imo. which might actually cater towards the tastes of those individuals looking for an sql set up that.. well, that "booms." but it's still a very musical sub. not as musical as the w6 imo, but a linear beast in all respects. That, an MT is not.
Mikechec9, you can talk all you want, but until you actually buy MT and build a custom box, then test it against W7 AT the audio shop that's trying to sell you, AND come out with them shaking their heads, then you can tell me. Like I said before, the deal I had with them was, if they can prove to me that having JL W7 in my trunk CAN make a difference then I'd purchase one. To be fair, I used the same CD on both setup. My MT in my trunk and their JL in their test car. At everyday driving volume, JL sounded great. At higher volume, the quality dipped. The song I used had 3 different kind of drums. This is why it was a good song for testing. The 1st and 2nd were your normal drums, but the 3rd one was very low, maybe 35Hz or lower. "the MT DOES get low and loud, but is not responsive at all." Just what is responsive to you? To me, if a sub can reproduce a song as close to the original as possible without tainting/distorting, then I consider it SQ worthy. From your post, you were ASSUMING I was using some rappy "booming" bass track. Well that's what they used on the first demo. Come to think of it, you remind me of those JL dealers. Same speech, "not in the same league/class","won many awards", "best in the world" etc. I listend to ALL of them, nothing new. Then after the demo, they couldn't sell me the sub. Instead, they told me they will try and redo the demo car so that it would perform better next time. Don't get me wrong, I'd buy JL W7 for everyday use, but anything higher in power, there are other alternatives as I learned today. I really thought I was going to lose the challenge, but at the end of the day, I still have my $1000. I will visit the owner maybe next week to see what other sub he has that can perform better.
Your saying the MT outperformed the W7 in SQ with higher power? How much power was being used in the test to each woofer? What size enclosure/tuning for each? The fact that the tests were performed in different cars doesn't make it a great test, but still..regardles of that..the W7 should blow the MT away in SQ.
I never argued that the MT couldnt reproduce low bass, but if I was going for a sub with sick low end..i'd take the W7 over it any day. You'll have a hard time finding a sub with more low end meant for mobile audio.
Since we're talking about SQ, let's talk about transient response and accuracy. How did they match up in that sense? If your MT held it's own it has to be a poor install on the W7..really that's the only way.
"Mikechec9, you can talk all you want, but until you actually buy MT and build a custom box, then test it against W7 AT the audio shop that's trying to sell you, AND come out with them shaking their heads, then you can tell me."
1) i'll never buy an spl sub. 2) i'll never need an audio shop to suggest a product to me, or to play a sub to convince me that mine sounds better. 3) i own two brahmas. obviously, i'm no w7 fan or i'd own one (or two). but in all humility, i honestly think you have a bad case of "well i bought it, so it must sound better"s. which is cool, because it's only you whom you have to please. but when you accidentilly mislead others into believing an MT has more sq than a w7.. well no response was relly necessary after a comment like that, come to think of it. but its cool to be proud of what you own. not knocking. just clarifying a bit. i'm sure it sounds good, though.
He never said the MT had ultimately better SQ than the W7, only at higher volume levels, which makes perfect sense given the subs linearity, motor strength, and excursion capability. Every subwoofer gets sloppy at some point. There are SPL subwoofers that can sound quite good, DD is a good example.
What I'd choose for a SQ subwoofer would have most forum dwellers whipping out their dumax sheets and telling me I'm stupid because "x" sub has so much excursion capability and yada yada. I think the Dynaudio MW190 sounds better than anything Adire, RE, ID, and JL can put out, but only within their limits. The MW190 is far from a high output subwoofer, and I'm sure some Power Craptastik could sound better at some level of output.
As long as you know your goals, the limits of the equipment, and make the most out of them, you will get the results you're after.
For your question 1: I didn't buy SPL sub for SPL, but to experiment. 2: you don't need an audio shop to suggest, but it helps to test against their setup. 3: "well I bought it, so it must sound better" is out of line. Are you just a user or a hobbyist? I am a hobbyist/tester. Anyone can go buy a top end sub, takes no brains, just money. Reason why I do things differently is, it is a learning experience, and anything new discovered, helps others too. How many people do you know that turned MT into an SQ sub and tested it against the W7? I bet no one. I thought it would be interesting to see. So I did it. And to make it fair, the shop had an excellent incentive. I also stated that 600w rms or lower, JL performed great. MT wasn't as good, but not enough for me to switch. At higher power, it did very well, good enough to make people notice. "when you accidentally mislead others into believing an MT has more sq than a w7." I don't recall saying that, do you? I however did mention that MT is not as bad as you made out to be. According to you, it's not even in the same "league/class/genre/division." If you go by what's on paper, I can see why you could assume that. Actual testing is different. MT is not like L7. If properly broken in and with the right box, it does product good SQ. So instead of just passing on your "friends" comments/thoughts as facts, why not try one before jumping in the bandwagon? If I had the time and money and you were close by, I'd challenge your setup. 2 of your Brahmas with 2 of my MTs. 2 tests, one under 1000w rms, and one over 1000w rms. Same test I did with JL.
The objective of my experiment was to disapprove the opinions about MT sub. Just like you, I had people telling me MT is nothing but a SPL sub. No SQ what so ever. I know for a fact, that is NOT true.
Thanks Jonathan, that was the point I was trying to make. What I discovered is not a lie. It's too bad that I can't show the test results on here. It has to be heard in person.
if you honestly think that your loud toy would compare in any way to my setup in general, you should really check out my domain first. your saying that distance is the only reason you wouldn't challenge me is really just a safe gesture. so i understand. and no, it's not in the same class.. its meant to perform in spl applications. period. the jl is an sq sub that gets loud. it's simple. i'm not making it so. it just is. so how many people do i know who have tested the mt with a w7? none. they all have sense enough to know better. but, if you have "the time and money" to waste trying to prove something as nonsensical as that, then 2shay. i could have given you your "learning experience" for free. in terms of being different, i guarantee you have never seen my brahmas in anyones ride. so i didn't just go out and buy a high end sub. i had it specially made. again, check the web site. i'll check yours. what do you say?
Sorry, but I make everything I own myself. You're forgetting the objective of this forum, and that is to provide help and information. I find my experiment useful. If you don't great, no big deal, but do not exaggerate nor say things that I did not say. It helps no one. I think you're missing the boat here. Just like Jonathan said, every sub has it's strength and weaknesses. To say one sub is out of the league is a bold statement. Even your Brahmas has them. If you stay within that limit, then yes it'll sound great. Again, that wasn't my point from the beginning. You just happened to slice and dice the parts that got your attention. It's just mind boggling how you can make such statements. I know you like your subs, but very gutsy.