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Just venting my... Grief

 

A Sad Day
Unregistered guest
I just can't get over the... um.. junk people listen to today, and think it sounds... good. First let me say, I by no means am a car audio expert, nor have I ever heard the SQ systems that some people have (glass). BUT, I have heard some good stuff, and I know what sounds bad.

IT seems that the chrome audiobahn and the d*mned square kicker is taking over. People cannot get away from that square at circuit shi*tty. It is impossible to talk to people about car audio (well at least in high school) about decent stuff, because they KNOW kicker is the best, because circuit city sells it. Their friend has 2 L7s and it "beats".

well, I havent exactly been able to express my full feelings about this over a message board, but I hope everybody else can relate.
 

Silver Member
Username: Sploosh56

Ohio

Post Number: 889
Registered: May-04
haha you're not the only one. Kids in my school are like what's RE and Adire? There are a few people who have heard them in my small hick town and they laugh just like I do when kids around here say that there 15" Audiobahns can beat anything. i jsut don't let it even bother me anymore. I just laugh.
 

Gold Member
Username: Invain

Michigan United States

Post Number: 3672
Registered: Aug-04
Don't you want to scream?

I had a couple dumbazzes listen to my system for a few minutes the other day, and they're like,
"dude, how many subs you got?"
One?
"Whoah, one? Dude, what is it? How many watts you runnin', like 1500?"
No, 800 wrms
"man, that's still a lot, what kinda cap do you have?" T
his is when I give them a blank stare.... I don't have one (you fricken retards) I have a 160 amp alternator and all all 2 gauge wiring.
"Oh, you still should have a cap"
I didn't even feel like arguing, because they would never understand anyways, so I just said, naahh, they don't do much
 

Gold Member
Username: Basshead86

Ocala, FL USA

Post Number: 1139
Registered: Aug-05
we must unite against mainstream! lol
 

Silver Member
Username: Quickshot

Charlotte, North Carolina U.S.

Post Number: 230
Registered: Aug-05
man thats how it mostly is at my school even with a fairly mainstream brand like MTX they still dont know what the h3ll i have and they think that their sony and jensen crap can take my sub...i cant wait until i buy my eclipse Ti or sound splinter sub thats when their going to be like wtf is that sh!t...its also funny when alot of people in my school are blasting stock speakers with the bass turned all the way up and they are distorting out the a$s and i tell them to turn it down before they break something and their like stfu you dont know what your talking about
 

A Sad Day
Unregistered guest
Yea, the electrical system fight seems more fruitless than the sub and decent amp fight. I say i have a HO alt, and they say WHAT? what is that?... then they say, why dont you just get another battery or a cap.

the worst is the 1600w amps off of ebay for $100 dollars that have a single 20a fuse. when you try to say thats impossible,P=IV, they say you're dumb. or the audiobahns in the bandpass with the neon lights.

the list could go on, and on, and on....

 

Silver Member
Username: Quickshot

Charlotte, North Carolina U.S.

Post Number: 233
Registered: Aug-05
man liek i can convince them about crappy and none crappy brands but man when i say that i need an H.O. alt and their like wtf is that why dont you get a capacitor..they just wont listen to me and its very frustrating trying to explain it to them when all they want to do is argue with you
 

Silver Member
Username: Cenus

Hicksville, Ohio Usa

Post Number: 466
Registered: Jan-05
i know my brother is like this he thinks kicker is the god of car audio, he thinks his cvr is so badass, like the other i was talkin to him and he told me that cvr's are 2000 watts cause his "800" watt kenwood amp can barely push it, i just laughed. then i told them about my AA Atlas's and he's like i never heared of that brand are you sure there any good, then i showed him the subs and he was man those magnets are small, somtimes i just want to get up and biotch slap him.
 

A Sad Day
Unregistered guest
it's all about the bling factor. and good stuff will never bling like audiobahn and that da*ned square. and dont get me started on pyle of sh*t and lanzar. or dual.

it all makes me wanna say

GOSH... FREAKIN' IDIOT
 

Silver Member
Username: Quickshot

Charlotte, North Carolina U.S.

Post Number: 235
Registered: Aug-05
lol magnet size...well thats one thing that they can never argue with me the magnet of my 9500 is literaly as tall as an entire sony sub and like 6 times as big and heavy just like my d!ck :-)
 

A Sad Day
Unregistered guest
oh yea. MAGNET size... the all important magnet size. that's another reason audiobahn rules. they have a HUGE MAGNET..

and yet another thing.. the MAX vs RMS.. nobody understands... and nobody understands a jensen amp that says 1000w is not pushing 1000, but maybe 200rms
 

Silver Member
Username: Cenus

Hicksville, Ohio Usa

Post Number: 467
Registered: Jan-05
LOL are you talking about a mtx 9500,
 

Silver Member
Username: Southernrebel

Monroe, Louisiana USA

Post Number: 996
Registered: Mar-04
i have a friend that has never owned a system before, he asked if a 1200w lanzar d-class amp would run my brahma 10"...i told him to add up all and fuses and multiply by 12, that would give you a good idea of what the amp can really do. he said he was prolly gonna buy the amp anyways.
he has since hooked up the sub in his truck, but i havent seen his install

lol...it kinda makes me sad that i ended up selling him my brahma 10" and a really nice ported box i built for it that fits under the back seat of a chevy truck.

oh yea,
have you guys ever seen someone put a toggle switch on the POWER wire going to their amps? i have a buddy that did that once (w/ 8ga)...TO AN OLD SCKOOL KICKER AMP!!! i was sick when i saw it. he asked me, "why do my subs humm even went my CD player is paused?"...i looked at the wiring behind the seat, it was like a jungle.

i just told him to take everything out and let me start from scratch on rewiring it.
 

Silver Member
Username: Southernrebel

Monroe, Louisiana USA

Post Number: 997
Registered: Mar-04
oh yea...here is the best "install" of all
:-)

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/650399/4

i found this at a car show last spring.
 

Silver Member
Username: Alias747

MN

Post Number: 654
Registered: Apr-05
YaY, I just won a free Playstation 3 from a pop-up after I clicked on your link Marshall! Thanks dude, your awesome! :-)
 

Gold Member
Username: Southernrebel

Monroe, Louisiana USA

Post Number: 1004
Registered: Mar-04
welcome :-)
 

Bronze Member
Username: Tdisanto

Post Number: 23
Registered: Sep-05
I get all that same sh!t in my town too. Duals and MTX rule the world. Im away at college now and one of my buddies mentioned he had a sub and i asked him what it was. He says "Youve prolly never heard of this brand before, its german, but its called MB Quart" Im like, no ive heard of them alright. Needless to say, by the end of the class, I had him asking me questions.

I think the thing that is the most frustrating is not them talking up crappy brands, its that everything evolves around Peak power.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Spyder

Eglin AFB, Florida USA

Post Number: 76
Registered: Jun-05
Yeah i have that around here to....i have convinced a few people.... i had a friend with a some AB Compression series 10's like the ones i first ran....he had a BOSS amp....1000 i think....told him i bet i can melt your coils.....i let him see my amp and my install of my W7. turned it up and just let it do test tones for a good 10 minutes...then pulled my sub out and put his subs and box in my hatch area and hooked it up...did the test tone thing....lasted a good 3 minutes before they blew. he now asks me all kinda ?'s and is now waiting on his Zapco c2k 6.0 he got off ebay. he is planning on mathing that amp to a set off W6 12's. but on anouther note the big thing around here is inverting the AB and your cool....still kinda pisses me off when you hear a guy with 2 15's cranked up and distorting and rattling the hell out of his trunk thinking it's the coolest thing in the world!
 

Bronze Member
Username: Spyder

Eglin AFB, Florida USA

Post Number: 77
Registered: Jun-05
also on the magnet size i almost always win that battle......you ever seen the size of the magnet on a W7 and how heavy it is!! holy crap it's to big.....i don't really see the need for it to be the size it is!!
 

Silver Member
Username: Mikechec9

Http://www.cardomain.c...

Post Number: 939
Registered: May-05
well back in the day it was all you could do as a student to afford the lower mainstream brands as opposed to the all mighty jls. keep in mind this was in the very early 90's. technology has come a long way since, so there is really little need to stoop that low imo.
mostly though it is a matter of ignorance. these forums really help to educate instead of having to hang around shops and competitions like i used to (and still love to) in order to learn the ins and outs and dos and dont's, and that chrome and audiobahn sucks (had to). i recall asking one shop the dimensions of an enclosure with a particular volume. i d near had to beat it out of him. he said "that's what i gets PAID for." and i wasn't paying a penny. thankfully, again, there are forums with educated ones (and gurus) who don't mind sharing the wealth of knowledge they may have.
A+ for forums.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 10230
Registered: Dec-03


http://www.teamrocs.com/crap/newbie.htm

wait for the audio.. trust me.
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 10231
Registered: Dec-03
and yah Mike I can relate.. I ran this back in 88-96:
http://www.wickedcases.com/festiva/

note the lack of capacitors :-)
and the 80x2 amp running the subs.. lol
I had enough bass in that car to make people nauseated, and still hit a perfect C weighted curve on an RTA. I sorta miss that little car sometimes.. as slow as it was, it worked well in the city.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jmloughrey

Farmington, CT

Post Number: 1377
Registered: Jul-04
the magnet on my HCCA 12" is quite endowed :-)
 

New member
Username: Chrismecpcert

Texas

Post Number: 1
Registered: Sep-05
I am an installer a Circuit City and have done some real hardcore installs, and too a point I can agree with alot of stuff you say. I'll say I do like Kicker, I dont think they rule the world though I do like them, I think MTX rules right now because of the product they produce, for the price, I think JL is good too, I personally wouldnt pay the money. But I do wish sometimes people would just get to know their stuff before they go and brag, especially with those 1200Wx2 amps, thats sh*t cracks me up.
 

Gold Member
Username: Invain

Michigan United States

Post Number: 3673
Registered: Aug-04
"I think MTX rules right now because of the product they produce, for the price"

No comment...... HAHAHA
 

Platinum Member
Username: Glasswolf

Wisteria, Lane USA

Post Number: 10258
Registered: Dec-03
MTX makes terrific amplifiers.. and their subs are entry to mid level.. decent for the price, but honestly for what you spend on their subs, there are better products to be had. It really depends on what you're looking for.
from CC, Alpine has equal or better offerings for the money in just about every catagory from amps to head units to subs to components.
the type S and R speakers and subs are good values for the money and very good sellers.
I've met some good installers who've worked at CC.. even heard of a few at BB.
There are always exceptions to the rule.. just by and large the majority of installers and even more so the sales staff at these large chains are horrible and very poorly trained and undereducated. They barely know what a class AB amplifier is, let alone anything about enclosure design, or custom installation.. I've had to fix more installs by these chain stores than I care to recall.

I don't think everybody who buys or works at these stores sucks outright though.
just a matter of once bitten twice shy.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Gpz1100

Post Number: 55
Registered: Jul-05
For what mainstream listens to these days, the products of BB, CC, etc... are all fine.

I wonder how many of those with systems from these places have bought a real cd recently.

Many of us are so accustomed to the compressed, dynamically lacking sound of mp3's that there really is no need for high end audio equipment..

I've just about given up listening to mp3's in the car unless they are 256-320 kbit bitrate. Anything less just sounds like noise. Of course, real cd's sound great.

---
DEH-P860MP Headunit, Alpine spx-177R components (front), Alpine spx-17mb midbass woofers (rear panels), Alpine Type R 10" sub
Alpine MRV-F545 amp (125x2 + 500x1, Front/sub), Alpine 3552 (85 x 2) (rear panel)
 

Silver Member
Username: Acevolkov

Springfield, Missouri United Stated

Post Number: 121
Registered: Jul-05
I/m the only one in my school that i know of that has a decent idea of high quality stuff. A friend asked me what im pushing in my car, and i said 1 12" MT. he was like oh, those are pretty low quality right? He was seriuos. I later asked him what he thinks of when i say high quality, and what he thinks of sound quality, and he replied "i dunno, power acoustik." I sat him down there on the spot and had a long hard talk with him. He didnt listen. Another person said his 1 rockford p2 could beat my sub. Really, these people need to be shot. Advertising sucks, becuase crappy brands like legacy are taking over. Another person i know has 2 12" MOFO's, 2 2400 watt MAX legacy amps, and a 6 farad capacitor. His wire is 4 gauge, and he is running the RCA's on the same side of the power, and he wonders why he gets interferance.
 

Silver Member
Username: Rhassler

Gilford, NH

Post Number: 388
Registered: Dec-04
Yeah I live in a little town up in NH. NO ONE knows anything about car audio lol. I go to school and everyones like KICKER L7's are the best subwoofers you can buy. I just laugh now cuz everyone thinks they know everything and don't listen to anything I say. and EVERYONE goes by max rating on subs and amp. People hear my system and are like whoaaa how many watts are you runnin to that, and I tell them 1200 and there like ehhh thats not that much. It's funny how stupid people are lol
 

Silver Member
Username: Dz43893

Chicago, Illinois United states

Post Number: 277
Registered: Jun-05
idk what would be louder an MT or a P2?






(joke,dont hang me)
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 4743
Registered: May-04
Right now, DLS is cleaning house in the competition world. Have you seen Scott Buwalda's install? It couldn't be any simpler (which I like a LOT). Dome mids and tweets are mounted dead flat in the kicks, tweets in a pillar. Midbasses are in the door.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mikechec9

Http://www.cardomain.c...

Post Number: 943
Registered: May-05
i agree very simple. until you read what all went into the install. extrememly thorough, and he went through a considerable amount of modification to arrive at his end result.
but i agree. i love the simplicity of his presentation. very clean and purposeful (no neon..) looks almost stock. inspired my selection in components actually.
i am really interested in what he's doin with his new ebay project. are those speakers of his own design? never heard of them before.
here is a break down of his altima install
http://buwaldahybrids.com/Project%20Altima.htm
here is the new 240
http://buwaldahybrids.com/currentprojects.htm
 

kj 11
Unregistered guest
it funny over hear where i live it all jl nothing is better than jl and that gets old real quick
oh ya in dimond bar Ca
 

intensive care
Unregistered guest
now i have 2 kicker 15 l7 with 2 ppi 1600 runing to each all the rite higs and a 210 HO alt..........next car has two jl 13.5 and two 1000/1 both boxs are ported and i have two cadillacs the old one has the kicker and new one has the jl and i would have to say that the kicker system get very very loud and the jl system get rite up there bue has a cleaner sound no comparison but you pay for what you get....now i am getting a cadillac ext and i am getting 2 RE MT 18 ported and two orion 2500 a 500 apm alt from Ho and i am taking the back seats out ...people can sit on the box for all i care:-) any way i just like to turn it up on people that a blasting just stright trash system and for all you guy that have to put up with people that sware up and down that a kicker system can beat all i like to prove them dead wrong.....oh ya i still have that kicker system but i know for a fack that it by no means is the best in the world...but my new one will be up there lets hope...
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 4744
Registered: May-04
"i agree very simple. until you read what all went into the install. extrememly thorough, and he went through a considerable amount of modification to arrive at his end result."

But of course :-). I meant simple in a way that people were gawking about having tweeters in the pillars, the mids not having extensive positioning, things like that. His install of course had extreme attention to detail.

I'm basically down to the Iridiums, a Dyn 2 way set, or possibly some Morel Elates. The Iridium 3 ways are quite nice :-)
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 4746
Registered: May-04
"i am really interested in what he's doin with his new ebay project. are those speakers of his own design? never heard of them before."

I believe him and Dan Wiggins (Adire) are working on something. Not 100% though.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mikechec9

Http://www.cardomain.c...

Post Number: 944
Registered: May-05
"But of course . I meant simple in a way that people were gawking about having tweeters in the pillars, the mids not having extensive positioning, things like that."

and here's where my inexperience with installs comes in. scott actually did put his mids in the kicks and highs in the a-pillars, and molded them for best positioning, but how much DOES that offer over highs in the kicks? would the pillars offer higher staging to that much of a degreee?

"I'm basically down to the Iridiums, a Dyn 2 way set, or possibly some Morel Elates. The Iridium 3 ways are quite nice"

i like them a lot. i'm really just trying to optimize them to their full potential like scott did. but i'm trying to do it in a suv, and it's been quite costly. so i want to pay complete attention to detail and do it corrrectly myself. so i really appreciate the assistance and dialogue.
 

Silver Member
Username: Mikechec9

Http://www.cardomain.c...

Post Number: 945
Registered: May-05
"I believe him and Dan Wiggins (Adire) are working on something."

talk about dynamic duos.. another richard clark and dave navone. good stuff.
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 4747
Registered: May-04
"and here's where my inexperience with installs comes in. scott actually did put his mids in the kicks and highs in the a-pillars, and molded them for best positioning, but how much DOES that offer over highs in the kicks? would the pillars offer higher staging to that much of a degreee?"

It offers quite a bit of benefit, but only if done correctly. Within a drivers range, the dispersion will be fine and imaging will be dependant upon speaker phasing more so than actual driver position. This is accomplishable with 5 1/4" and even 6 1/2" woofers, and dome midranges of course, but a 1" tweeter is always going to run into beaming issues at the top octave, if you wanted a driver that could produce the entire freq. range without beaming, it would have to be less than 1/4", which isn't feasable for obvious reasons. Domes help this to an extent, but drivers always suffer from directionality regardless of how well you optimize the shape. That's where the pillars come into play, if a driver is going to be directional, you'd rather it be up high than down in a kick panel. The key to a-pillar tweets is to cross them over high, getting them away from the crucial vocal region and into presence range, which will mean a crossover around 6-7khz (or higher). This is a big reason DLS chose to create a wideband midrange driver that crosses at 7khz, they realize the potential of such a setup. At lower frequencies, the ear is more dependant upon phasing for imaging, while dependant upon volume at higher frequencies. With a tweeter crossed over that high, it's more about getting volume level matched correctly than it is phasing.

The midrange itself, I always recommend kicks, especially with dome mids since they're so easy to get right due to no airspace required. The midrange drivers are the most crucial in terms of getting the pathlengths close to one another. With the DLS set and the 3" mid crossing over at a very low (for a dome midrange) 350hz, this covers the important part of the frequency spectrum and then some. It is much easier to match those mids with the midbasses than are the Dynaudio 3 ways, b/c of the lower crossover frequency. That's a big reason I like the DLS sets. The good thing about these midranges is that they are sealed back, so you can play around with location just like you would a tweeter. You can also reverse the phase of midrange drivers to improve imaging without affecting midbass performance.

 

Silver Member
Username: Big_oso

Post Number: 458
Registered: Jun-05
The only thing kicker is good for is breaking records in DB Drag as they currently hold both street Z and street B world records. And those are Solo X's
 

Silver Member
Username: Mikechec9

Http://www.cardomain.c...

Post Number: 946
Registered: May-05
"You can also reverse the phase of midrange drivers to improve imaging without affecting midbass performance."
perhaps the foremost argument for 3-ways over 2's. i definately had to reverse the phase on my 3's. incredible difference given their less-than-great current location. that's gonna change now though. just have to get to work before it gets frigid up here. thanks
 

Gold Member
Username: Jonathan_f

GA USA

Post Number: 4749
Registered: May-04
"talk about dynamic duos.. another richard clark and dave navone. good stuff."

Yeah, I think it can really benefit the car audio world, saying you'd be getting drivers that are designed from a competitors perspective. Adire doesn't really have a lot of car offerings, if I were dealing with Adire for car speakers, I'd like to see the following :-)

8" woofer, healthy stroke, small enclosure capability for a doorside, capable of covering around 20-500hz well (20-300 being the important part). Similar treatment as the Extremis, copper plated polepiece.

Dedicated midrange, 4" or 5". Average excursion, around 2mm one way, using XBL^2 for it's qualities of lower inductance, higher linearity, and lowered moving mass due to the shorter coil (compared to overhung). A well designed phase plug, copper plating on the polepiece to lower inductance more would be a nice touch. Imagine a midrange with the inductance and transient response of most tweeters :-). Would ideally cover around 300hz-7khz or so.

Last would be a 3/4" dome tweeter for good dispersion, about 1mm one way stroke, covering 2-3khz and up.

I'm just dreaming, though, but it would be nice to have a front stage that could provide everything, including low bass. Competitors would love it. I'd like them to be metal cone, like SEAS magnesium drivers are (exception being the tweeter), and use really big voice coils like the Dyn and DLS drivers do for that extra level of control over the cone. I guess that's a little out of reach, though :-)
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