Not car audio but another trick for gas milage and horsepower
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3404 Registered: Jun-04 | http://users.frii.com/maphill/airdam.html I saw a vriation of this at a national car audio event the other day and said I had this idea a while back for my car...so I went on the net looking for ideas and that link is a good one along with my other post I shared with you |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3405 Registered: Jun-04 | another NICE site to add to the list http://racingarticles.com/article_racing-75.html |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3406 Registered: Jun-04 | I especially like the e ram air idea -E-Ram air. ($25.00)(Homemade) I went to a marine supply store and bought a 4" 230 CFM 12 volt DelMar Bilge Blower. I used 4" to 3" PVC reducing couplings to make it fit. ($2.50 from Home Depot)I installed it in my intake with a switch in my door panel. When I flip the switch alot of extra cold air is pushed into my intake. A 2.5 liter engine naturally consumes 86 CFM (Cubic Feet per Minute) in 5th gear going 65 mph. So that means that I'm pushing 8 PSI (Pounds Per Square Inch)Not bad for a plastic blower (Laughing) |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3407 Registered: Jun-04 | A study on ram air effeciency intresting http://www.karlsnet.com/mopar/ramair.shtml |
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Bronze Member Username: LettoMilwaukee, WI Post Number: 99 Registered: Jun-05 | Interesting |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3408 Registered: Jun-04 | looks like some of those mods coming up for me considering I have two auto mechanics in the family and a friend into custom modding |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 8601 Registered: Dec-03 | his idea is flawed by compressing the air (reduction tube) he's also heating it. hot air is less dense and in effect isn't helping his engine at all. The reason an actual blower works is because it uses two splines that interlock, in basically an air tight seal, so the air is physically compressed and forced into the cylinder with nowhere else to go. His idea, especially with a throttle body and not carburetion, isn't going to do much. Cute idea though. If you'll notice on most forced induction blower systems including turbos, you have an intercooler to cool the compressed air before it reaches the manifold. In the case of a roots style blower, you just have a crapload of raw force that crams enough PSI into the manifold to add half the engine's HP on top of what it's already got at the cost of soem parasitic belt drive power loss. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 8602 Registered: Dec-03 | on that ramair article.. he mentions the TA scoop. What he fails to mention is that NHRA has done a load of testing on these questions, and not only is a 180 degree angle for the scoop the best, but ramair is pointless unless its at about the roofline of teh car. Lower than that and airflow over the surface of the car robs the ramair of it's intended purpose. Also, a lot of scoops aim downward because that's not the angle they're meant to be in when used for peak efficiency. They're level when the car is doing a wheelstand down a dragstrip.. that's the time it matters most.  now that I read through that guy's article.. a lot of his experiment is inaccurate and poorly carried out.. and a lot of his results are impression and feel, and not actual figures. sadly, just another riceboy trying to make a case for his backyard mods instead of just getting a turbo put on the car |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3411 Registered: Jun-04 | Glasswolf I have been reading other sites that have dyno results with similar ideas and I can tell you these ideas definately have potential even if we cant verify with actual numbers. I say test it before you debunk the idea. (meant for others who wonder if the idea has any merit) To say what this guy felt in the other article was false in two seperate ocassions calls says hes lying; but what if he isnt? Up to you people. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3412 Registered: Jun-04 | by the way your comment.... "his idea is flawed by compressing the air (reduction tube) he's also heating it. hot air is less dense and in effect isn't helping his engine at all." misses one point as well the air inside under stock setting would be much hotter would it not? So if thats true wouldnt his mod even if it does do a 4 inch opening to a 3 inch opening be cooler air delivery than stock by far especialy be closer to the source (the source being cold air) food for thought people |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3413 Registered: Jun-04 | I have problems with a comment or two youve made besides what ive stated Glasswolf but ill stop there. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 8618 Registered: Dec-03 | direct induction of outside air is a benefit. reducing the pipe diameter with the idea of compressing the air isn't as helpful. as for the whole CAI idea, it helps if the car has a convoluted air path and is near the engine originally. Not all cars have such bad layouts though and many already have a pretty clear straight shot from cool air in the grille straight to the throttle body. another problem is that even with more air in, if he's running a stock exhaust manifold and pipe, he's just as restricted with exhaust exiting the engine, so the benefit is minimal at best. If he wants a real improvement and not one he's just perceiving because he wants it to feel faster, he'd run a CAI and exhaust system, and reprogram the engine computer. after that he could upgrade his ignition and replace/enlarge his throttle body, and upgrade the injectors if he wants the ramair to really be effective. Really since he's using an EFI engine, the fuel delivery and as a result, the air intake, is all going to be governed anyway so improvements are more dependant on the car's computer than on how much air you can cram down the manifold. ramair was really intended for carburetion. |
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Gold Member Username: Taylor17Kopperl, Texas Post Number: 2681 Registered: Jan-05 | Hmmmm, K&N filter, performance chip, headers/exaust. I could see where it would help, but not a lot. Some is better than nun though.:-) lol |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3414 Registered: Jun-04 | yeah your right glasswolf the electronics would hold it back in some reguards |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3417 Registered: Jun-04 | by the way your comment "If he wants a real improvement and not one he's just perceiving because he wants it to feel faster" is disproved by this Final Project Conclusions: I finished all the projects by mid December 2001 and have the Quad Ram Air in permanently on my 1993 Dodge Shadow 2.2L NA. The K&N filter, Quad Ram Air, heavily modified air box, and crankcase vent mod / filter / ram all work together very nicely for a huge gain in performance and fuel economy. I saw a 57.9% increase in fuel economy (but I wasn't getting the stock EPA fuel economy rating, it nets a 20% improvement over the EPA rating). Horsepower based on 1/4 mile time says I gained 36.6% (34 HP), which I account mainly to the very poor breathing of the stock 2.2. My mods to my car may be a little severe for some people, and like every mod on a car you are trading off one thing for another.....he got a faster quarter mile time....(not perception thats reality) |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3418 Registered: Jun-04 | also glasswolf you might like this as well since you have an old car http://www.ramairbox.com/product.html |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 8664 Registered: Dec-03 | no, it doesn't disprove anything. none of his "tests" were conducted under controlled conditions. none of them are scientifically valid. that's my point. unless he puts a stock car and his on a dynomometer, a "quarter mile time" approach doesn't mean anything to masure HP. I also didn't see any reference to how he measured any of this.. with a watch? an accelerometer? what? |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3420 Registered: Jun-04 | ill put it this way if his quarter mile times changed to the point that it shows a 34 hp gain then no matter if hes off on the actuall hp gain or not you explain to me how his times got better in the first place, come up with whatever rational you want but I choose the mods he did to be the reason ...point blank |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3421 Registered: Jun-04 | also heres another one http://www.ramairbox.com/product.html The RAM AIR BOX is a twin snorkel, high capacity air cleaner housing used to supply fresh air to an engine. It is based on the popular 14" open element air cleaner. The RAM AIR BOX is a one-piece, hand-laminated fiberglass unit, offered in many sizes. The benefits of cooler air, teamed with forced induction, have long been understood. We have applied this technology and manufactured an air box to help plumb the air to the engine. The RAM AIR BOX is the key to the whole system. Let us consider the original equipment manufacturers and how they deal with fresh air systems for their vehicles. These are their priorities: low speed drivability, fuel economy, low emissions and low engine noise. Some of the new inlet systems are in fact mufflers. Air Inlet Systems is dedicated to maximum performance, be it power or economy. When you increase efficiency, both may improve. The 60's were full of air-grabbing ideas. Everybody had something. Then the fuel crunch of the early 70's ushered in the emissions era. Only the odd insurgence had been noted until GM re-introduced the RAM AIR on the Trans-Am and Z-28 in 1996. Today, all manufacturers use some sort of fresh air inlet systems. Over the years, few choice performance-optioned vehicles have been graced with twin snorkel or high capacity air cleaner housings. Most of these are still more restrictive than our smallest models. A typical scenario would have an individual looking to improve his engine's breathing capability by installing an open element air filter and removing his single-snorkel original equipment air filter. What he has gained in air quantity, he lost in air quality. This, in effect, may void the potential gains. With the RAM AIR BOX, he can truly decrease air restriction in the inlet track and retain the fresh air benefits. With the RAM AIR BOX, he truly feels the performance improvements due to the modification Although the cooler air is mandatory, there is another great benefit to be had with the RAM AIR BOX. The fact is that when we drive down the road, we are pushing air with the front of our vehicle. That is a source of high pressure air. The potential pressure head at the grill is approximately 2" of hg. This is available for the taking. With smooth ducting, most of that can be channelled into the air box. Our 1/4 mile acceleration tests have yielded .2 to .4 of a second elapsed-time improvement. Test vehicles have reported up to 3 miles per gallons improvements, over long periods. We generally expect to see as much as a 10 % increase in power when installing an air box over an open element air filter. Gains over factory single-snorkel / non fresh systems may even be greater. How to select a RAM AIR BOX: The simplest way to determine which air box you need is by installing a 14" diameter open-element air filter onto the vehicle. Generally, by fitting the tallest air filter possible, it will tell us the maximum size RAM AIR BOX the chassis can accept. Please keep in mind that cowl induction rear open-hood scoops are not wide enough to allow the twin snorkel style RAM AIR BOX to tuck under them. If that is the case, start thinking cowl box. After the height is determined, the included angle of separation between the snorkels must be chosen. For narrow confines, the 80 degree models work best, where some high-mounted front accessories may be in the way, the 110 degree models must be used. The 110 degree models can also be used to route tube to the inner fenders in some cases. In the cases where a drop-base air filter assembly is used, interference with peripheral components may occur. On a small block chev with an HEI, there is no room at all between the filter an the distributor, in those cases a relief must be cut in the back of the air box. Ford small blocks may have concerns in front. A relief kit can be purchased to fill the hole. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 8685 Registered: Dec-03 | want to know how? a better launch. The holeshot can make that big of a difference in a quarter mile ET. The fact is he didn't use a controlled setting for the testing. It's nice to think you'd gain 30HP from adding a CAI, but honestly, that's bullsh*t on an 80HP 2.2L chrysler motor that's not even performance tuned. I'd be surprised if he gained 5HP from that change, and even if he did, it wouldn't make much difference in performance unless he increased torque too. Now this is a car audio forum, not n engine performance forum. This needs to end. All of this off topic crap lately is really cluttering up the forums. by the way stop using product hype from people trying to sell you things. I can sell you a wing for your car that's proven to add 500 horsepower in my personal tests. Wanna buy one? Try using impartial review comparisons done by respectable organizations or magazines. Then I may lend some credence to it. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3422 Registered: Jun-04 | Glasswolf I understand and somehow missed that he was using the 2.2 and not the v6 so I agree that kind of horsepower increase is very unbeleivable. I own up when im wrong and right there I was. I only added this because ive seen others talking about car performance ideas (you included) and I also added it for the fuel improvement ideas with gas prices being as high as they are. So before you go giving advice maybe you should follow it. As far as your attmpt at sacrcasism with the wing I dont appeciate it and I wish youd get off your Ego trip in general. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3423 Registered: Jun-04 | ps....if you look at what you called product hype and click on the link youll see that its an old muscle car something I thought youd apperciate as well as see the raim air effect what performance increase it gave. I know the raim air technic works ive used it on my chevelle and my uncle has on his truck so I KNOW it works no matter what you say. |
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Gold Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 8696 Registered: Dec-03 | I had a 2.5L i4 shadow myself.. I know what you can squeeze out of one.. that was one reason I was skeptical.. lol Yeah the link was cool to nose through, I just find the claims to be exaggerated in general.. a lot like capacitors in car audio :P I fully admit any little bit helps.. and a CAI can help, if it's used in combination with other mods.. but alone, it's never going to give you a massive increase in feelable power, know what I mean? I laugh when I see kids say, "Man I got this CAI and bam! I was slammed into my car seat!" as if.. |
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