My test tone results...
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Silver Member Username: Dpaw20FL USA Post Number: 264 Registered: Mar-05 | 20hz-couldnt hear (very very completely faint) 30hz-hardly, you could hear, but it was quiet 33hz-lil more, but not much 40hz-seamed pretty loud 43hz-probly the loudest 45hz-maybe the same as 43, if not louder 50hz-well, it sounded higher but not louder this is with 2 12" Type-R's in a prefab Obcon ported box tuned to 39hz... would getting a sealed box make my low end response much better? I dont have the money for a custom box tuned low, or the tools to make one. I guess what Im tryin to say is..if you had to choose between the box I have now (Obcon) or a sealed box, which would you choose? Also, the sealed box will be a prefab, but ill try and make it close to Alpines specs (how many cu ft would you recomend?) If not, how can I improve? I want it to get better, because in some rap songs, the bass lines get super low on a one or two notes and it just sounds, well, g*ay. I dont know if thats normal or not, but I know you guys can help. |
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Silver Member Username: Tdeaton1021Near Tampa, Florida USA Post Number: 678 Registered: Sep-04 | yes i would think a sealed box would definetly help you on the low notes. a 39hz tuning frequency it quite high. |
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Silver Member Username: AlpineuserWinchester, TN Post Number: 596 Registered: Mar-05 | how does it sound "g*ay"? Does it kinda sound like its saying "I'm super thanks for asking"? |
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Silver Member Username: Tdeaton1021Near Tampa, Florida USA Post Number: 680 Registered: Sep-04 | lol i highly doubt it alpine... maybe something more like "fabulous" tho lol |
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Silver Member Username: Dpaw20FL USA Post Number: 265 Registered: Mar-05 | k, thx trevor..but how many cu ft per chamber would you recomend for 2 12" type-r's? |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3001 Registered: Jun-04 | keep in mind a sealed enclosure also has a tuning frequency (center frequency) and just like a ported box once you go below that things start getting distorted the lower you go past that. One trick that might help you is extending the port length out of the box for a lower port tune since you cant take the exsisting port out but you can still add to it from the outside but make sure its sealed as good as you can to test it then make it permanent and tightly sealed when your done. Another option is to try it sealed and you couls make a wood plate to go over them and carpet it to match. |
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Silver Member Username: Dpaw20FL USA Post Number: 266 Registered: Mar-05 | i dont have the tools or time for that right now, is what im saying though. what I was hoping, is that getting a sealed box for a lot less money than a custom ported box, would fix my problem pretty well. If I do go sealed (which I think I am), how many cu ft should I go for? You said sealed has a tuning frequency, well, how will I know what it is in a prefab? Also, if you had the choise between sealed, or prefab tuned to 39hz, what would you choose? |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3005 Registered: Jun-04 | you model is using you speakers theil small parameters on a box building program like winisd or a program like that. The theil small is what dertemines a sealed boxes center frequency. |
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Silver Member Username: Dpaw20FL USA Post Number: 267 Registered: Mar-05 | where can I download winsid? |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3006 Registered: Jun-04 | here http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisd |
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Silver Member Username: Dpaw20FL USA Post Number: 268 Registered: Mar-05 | i cant figure out how to work winisd..i dont know why.. but heres the specs, if you could run them for me. Specs > Diaphragm Material : Kevlar Reinforced Pulp > Magnetic Weight : 89.4oz. > Mounting Depth (top mount) : 178mm (7") > Mounting Diameter (top mount) : 275mm (10-7/8") > Recommended Box Types : Sealed/Vented/Bandpass > Recommended Sealed Box Volume : 0.7 -- 1.0 cu. ft. > Spider Material : Nomex > Voice Coil Diameter : 50mm > Power Handling: > Power Handling Capacity (Peak) : 1000W > Power Handling Capacity (RMS) : 300W > Thiel Small Parameters: > Coil Height (Hvc) : 36.7mm > Cone Area (Sd) : 467.59 sq. cm > D.C.Coil Resistance (Re) : 1.8 ohm + 1.8 ohm > Electrical Q (Qes) : 0.40 > Equivalent Suspension Stiffness (Vas) : 58 > liters(2.04cu.ft.) > Free Air Resonance (Fs) : 27Hz > Frequency Response : 24Hz - 1kHz > Gap Height (Hag) : 10mm > Impedance (Nominal) : 2 ohm + 2 ohm > Inductance (Le) : 2.41mH at 1kHz (0.84mH at 20kHz) > Linear Excursion (X linear) : 13.35mm > Maximum Excursion (X peak) : 26.7mm > Mechanical Excursion (Peak-to-Peak) : 55mm > Mechanical Q (Qms) : 8.68 > Sensitivity : 87 dB/W/M > Total Loudspeaker Q (Qts) : 0.38 |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3009 Registered: Jun-04 | its actually not hard if you read the help menu and put the right thiel small conversions in. What type of bass do you want sq type? |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3010 Registered: Jun-04 | if i was doing an sq box id choose 1.90 cf per 12 sealed |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3011 Registered: Jun-04 | i dont think winisd includes subwoofer displacemnt so that 1.90 cf is net not gross. |
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Silver Member Username: Dpaw20FL USA Post Number: 269 Registered: Mar-05 | damn 1.9? does everyone go around with boxes that big? lol, I was hoping to maybe go smaller than 1.56cuft per chamber (what I already have). But if you say thats what youd really recomend. I really really want to get it right, cuz going prefab ported was a terrible decision (wish ida held off on all my stuff) and like I said, would you switch from the box I have now, to the box you recomend if it were yours? Also, would that make the 20-35hz much louder? If its not noticeobly different then I dont wanna go through the hastle of selling my current box and getting a new one. Thx for your help thus far. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3017 Registered: Jun-04 | honestly I wouldnt buy another box id stick with yours and be happy unless you wanted to build the box yourself becuase your not going to find basically a 4 cf prefab sealed box |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3018 Registered: Jun-04 | you could add about a pound of poly to a pound an a half and get a lower port tune it fools the sub into thinkig its a larger box size and as a result the port tune lowers its worth a shot |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3020 Registered: Jun-04 | that was per chamber |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3021 Registered: Jun-04 | id do the pound an a half in each chamber |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3023 Registered: Jun-04 | if im estimating right it will drop your port tune to 35 hz from 39 hz not too bad go for it....test the box with test tones again and let me know if I was right. After you put the pound and a half in each chamber. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3024 Registered: Jun-04 | that should give you better sq and a lower port tune without buying a new box |
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Silver Member Username: Dpaw20FL USA Post Number: 270 Registered: Mar-05 | huh, ill look into buying some of that. Would makin it tuned to 35hz make much of a difference than 39 though? If not, could I even add MORE of that stuff without causing problems? |
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Silver Member Username: Dpaw20FL USA Post Number: 271 Registered: Mar-05 | also, where can I look into buying some of it, whats it called, and how much does it go for? Is it hard to install? |
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Silver Member Username: Dpaw20FL USA Post Number: 272 Registered: Mar-05 | bump |
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Silver Member Username: MixneffectOrangevale, Ca. USA Post Number: 148 Registered: Apr-05 | My program calculates that with the parameters given, the optimum closed box would be about 9 liters or 1/3 cu ft. This size box would yield and obnoxious peak around 110 Hz, and rolloff sharply in both dirrections. Something tells me that either the parameters are not correct or this driver is garbage. I checked Alpines website and the parameters are like you posted. I have used my program many times before and it is quite precise. I used BassBox6 Pro. I graphed out a .7 cu ft and 1 cu ft, and I got almost identical responses on the graph. Something is not right.  |
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Silver Member Username: MixneffectOrangevale, Ca. USA Post Number: 149 Registered: Apr-05 | Here is the difference between a closed box and a vented box. The yellow line (if you can see it) is that of a closed box. The red line is that of a vented box. This is just to prove that vented boxes will produce extended lower bass than closed boxes. I noticed that that was your concern. You wanted more low bass out of your Alpine 12 type R's. Well there you go. Use a vented box and it will give you better results.  |
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Silver Member Username: Dpaw20FL USA Post Number: 273 Registered: Mar-05 | huh.. I wonder why the specs are wierd, because its not complete garbage, its not garbage at all. Type-R's are pretty good subs for the money. Maybe Alpine put out the wrong specs...but it dont seem like they would. idk |
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Silver Member Username: MixneffectOrangevale, Ca. USA Post Number: 152 Registered: Apr-05 | I have been an Alpine fan for years, but not on drivers. I preffer their head units and amps over anything out there. I havent built a system using those subs, so I am not aware of their real life capabilities, but from what I have seen in their component and/or separates I am not impressed, I am actually disgusted. They sound like garbage. Sorry to say DWP I am not trying to offend you on any means. It is what it is. |
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Silver Member Username: MixneffectOrangevale, Ca. USA Post Number: 153 Registered: Apr-05 | Ok heres an update. I removed the large parameters and used only the small thiel parameters. I have a better response on both the closed box and vented. The vented is way better. In a closed 1/3 cu ft box you will get a cutoff of 65 Hz. In a vented 1.4 cu ft box tuned at 27 Hz you will get a cutoff of 31 Hz using a 2" port 6 5/8" long. Here are the graphs. Again, the yellow represents the closed box and the red represents the vented box.  |
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Silver Member Username: Dpaw20FL USA Post Number: 274 Registered: Mar-05 | the 12" type-r's are sq subs, and its recomended that you use a sealed box, but I didnt go that route. And ya, their components suck, but the subs are great. Not the best, but good for the money. Somethings deffinately wrong with the specs, because the sealed box cutoff shouldnt be that high. And sean, you out there? |
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Silver Member Username: MixneffectOrangevale, Ca. USA Post Number: 156 Registered: Apr-05 | the sealed box recomendation were 1/3 cu ft. This is for optimum performance, not cut off. Theres very little difference as far as output and cutoff is concerned between the 1/3, .7, and 1 cu ft sealed box. Here are the graphs. Yellow is 1/3. Red is .7. Blue is 1.  |
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Silver Member Username: Dpaw20FL USA Post Number: 276 Registered: Mar-05 | bumb for sean.. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3049 Registered: Jun-04 | you can get the loose poly fill at wallamrt in 20 oz bags for like 2.50 a piece or buy the batting in mat form and glue or staple it down around all the walls of the box except where the sub board is |
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Bronze Member Username: Dz43893Chicago, Illinois United states Post Number: 62 Registered: Jun-05 | alpine great line(south park) |
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Silver Member Username: Dpaw20FL USA Post Number: 277 Registered: Mar-05 | would you recomend the batting in mat form? If so, where would I get it? Still wal-mart? same price? |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3053 Registered: Jun-04 | wallmart about the same price from what I remember |
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