Mtx vs. jl

 

New member
Username: Kylekamp420

Spring Grove, MN U.S.A

Post Number: 7
Registered: May-05
how does a mtx 9500 compare to a jl w7
 

Gold Member
Username: Subfanatic

Walton, Ky

Post Number: 3693
Registered: Dec-04
in the 10 inch range they are very identical, but as the jl line size moves up, so does itssound and so on, but the 9500 just doesnt for some reason, they compare nicely at 10s, but not at 12s or 13.5scompared to 15s
 

New member
Username: Jacobmanes90

Comfort, Texas Usa

Post Number: 7
Registered: May-05
I would say Jl has a much more precise sound, no bad sounds or mudding sounding,,even on stuff like primus where the bass is what is the loudest.
 

New member
Username: Kylekamp420

Spring Grove, MN U.S.A

Post Number: 8
Registered: May-05
ok so how does the rockford fosgate t2 compaire to these 2 subs
 

Gold Member
Username: Subfanatic

Walton, Ky

Post Number: 3699
Registered: Dec-04
in all honestly, not comparing stats, but it goes likethis for me

1 JL
2 RF
3 MTX,

to be totally honest, i HATE the wayt jl w7s sound UNLESS im high, which is most of the time so its pretty cool, lol, the RF sounds really good and gets really loud, AND the mTX i just plain old dont like unless u wanna dish out 300 bucks for an ss box.

ALso, if u want to blow them all out of the water, get a RE x.x.x or a eclipse Ti
 

troy barrett
Unregistered guest
jl audio is the best. first of all who wants to roll around with rf or mtx. those are cheep companies and id be embarresed to say i had them. sub fanatic your a dumbass for not liking jl and u dont know anything about subs. the w7 are the best sounding. quickest responding, best bass subs out there. i have two 12 inch w7s with 2 100/1 jl amps and they are louder than the 15inch kicker L7. rx and mtx are cheep companise and the only reason people talk crap about jl audio is because they cant afford them
 

troy barrett
Unregistered guest
also if u knew anything about damping factor or fuse rating ( which jl has the best at) u would never pick mtx or rl
 

i love subs
Unregistered guest
yeah subfanatic i agree with troy. subfanatic is stupid
 

Silver Member
Username: Cenus

Hicksville, Ohio Usa

Post Number: 147
Registered: Jan-05
hey troy if your 12inch w7's are so badass, bring them to ohio and my friend with 2 10inch shocker audio subs will blow your sh!t out of the water
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe_c

Oakwood, Ga

Post Number: 304
Registered: Mar-05
my dik is quite larger than all of yours.
 

Gold Member
Username: Subfanatic

Walton, Ky

Post Number: 3750
Registered: Dec-04
actually joseph, id say mine is the largest lol, and I love subs, and Troy, YOU ARE AN IDIOT, my interfire audio amp has a better dampening factor than jl amps, also usa amps, xtant, zapco, you are a complete idiot, you spend over 2000 on your system and i spend less than 500, i GUARANTEEEEEE my system is LOUDER and cleaner, jl subs do NOT have the best response your flaming h0mosexual, you know NOTHING about car audio, go to the car audio section and post about this, people will laugh in your face, JL IS GREAT, not certainly NOT the best, my tis KILL w7s in response sound quality and spl, so shut the ehll up, HA!
 

Gold Member
Username: Subfanatic

Walton, Ky

Post Number: 3762
Registered: Dec-04
oh yea by the way Troy, allllll music is subjective, what one man likes isnt wat another likes, and for your information, JL doesnt go to spl or sq comps, wanna know why, becuase they are spl/sq subs, they dont sound tooo good, they dont get tooo loud, and are FAR over priced, dont even try to put your knowledge with mine, i guarantee i know more than you
 

Silver Member
Username: Cenus

Hicksville, Ohio Usa

Post Number: 155
Registered: Jan-05
LOL you tell him Sub
 

Gold Member
Username: Subfanatic

Walton, Ky

Post Number: 3770
Registered: Dec-04
also!!!! read this little story ok, and keep in mind, this IS from a JL salesman!!!

I don't mean to be offensive to anyone who believes that this woofer from JL Audio is God's gift to this green Earth. Instead, I am going to be truthful and honest with you so know what exactly you think you are buying. I am certified through JL Audio to sell and install all JL Audio products and even have the "W7" certification. I have built many systems over the last ten years and swear by their w6 v1/ae and w3 v2 lines. However, I must say that I am very disappointed with the w7 line and to show you why I have broken this review into easy to follow sections for your convenience.

Packaging and Warranty:
All JL Audio w7s arrive in a double boxed package that is well protected for your piece of mind. These woofers weigh in the neighborhood of 40-55 lbs and the extra packaging is needed to make sure that they don't get damaged or cause any damage by falling through the bottom of an unpackaged box. JL Audio actually states on the packaging and in the paperwork that is included not throw away any of the packaging. Failure to do so will mean that you have voided your warranty. They tell you that exactly what I mentioned earlier about the hazards of such a heavy woofer and use it as an excuse for the packaging being needed to honor your warranty. One other thing to note is that they will not send you a new product if you ever have any problems with your speaker. Instead they will opt to repair your product or if deemed necessary send you a refurbished product. However, if they feel that you have abused your speaker (i.e. over and under powering, clipping, distortion, ect) they will consider that abuse and not be obligated to help you. About the only thing good I can say about the packaging is the MDF cutout that is included with the speaker. Why? Because when you unmount the speaker from the board the circular cutout is the perfect sized template to use to draw the holes of your enclosure.

Installation:
It is difficult for the average consumer to install this product for mainly due to the fact that the mounting screws are underneath the surround making it very hard to access. Another problem that most people should be aware of the depth of this driver. Its mounting depth is almost as great as its diameter. Ouch. Not great in the automotive environment where space is limited and that is not including the enclosure. The amount of space this woofer takes up in the recommended enclosure is enough to fit two or three of its w6 or w3v2 line. Why would you want to do that? I will explain a little bit later.

In store testing / car testing:
If you go to an authorized dealer and request to "take a listen" to these pieces (as JL puts it) you should be told a few things by the sales people. It sounds better in the car and it sounds louder in the car. The second, by the laws of physics is true given a good electrical system with the same equipment that is used on the floor. However, when the sales person has to face the JL HO112w7r-3 enclosure around to hide the distortion at high volumes, something is wrong.
After all, JL Audio specifically states that this woofer "barely exceeds the 10% distortion limit at 1000 watts and anything at or below this limit is in audible". Sure. If this is true then I have one question for you JL. Why do you brag about having the cleanest class D amplifiers on the market if nobody can hear the difference. If you can't hear the difference an MTX class D amplified that is rated at a full 1% would do the job just fine given a good electrical system, one band parametric eq, and a 24db per octave crossover. Right?

Now that the sales person has told you that "it sounds better in the car" let's take it out to the car and see what he have. We are going to test it three vehichles with three different enclosures and six amplifiers.

The first install is a JL High Output 12w7 enclosure with an MTX 1500d (1500 watts RMS)in 2000 Chevy Suburban with a pioneer head unit and an upgraded alternator, battery, and cap. The customer in this situation wanted a system with loud and undistorted bass. I did tell him that his amp would definatley be the weakest link in his quest for perfect sound (10% distortion). In his vehicle the setup sounded
muddy, boomy, and lacked definition. This was like I said due in large part to his amplifier. But according to JL you can't hear the distortion because anything at or below 10% is in audible. He sure heard it and we swapped the amplifier out for the JL 1000/1 (1000 watts RMS). I have to admit that we both heard a big difference in sound when we did this and that was with the one band parametric eq and subsonic filter off! When we set both items to what JL recommends it sounded even better. However, it still wasn't loud enough and even worse this box took about 65% of his cargo area.
He was disappointed but still opted to keep everything because he felt that in the future he was going buy another speaker and run it off the same amplifier. An amplifier, which by the way, that was way too strong for this speaker. This speaker bottomed out at higher listening levels with the equalizer setting set flat and loudness/BBE turned off!

Installation number two was with my 1998 Mercedes c230 kompressor. In it I have an Eclipse 8v high voltage low impedence cd player with no amplifier and a copper plated chasis, a jl 300/2 going to mb quart premium refference components, a 500/1 (rated at 500 watts RMS)going to a 12 w7 in a custom-made slot vented enclosure, with M series monster cable used through out, and a deep cyle battery. This is a mercedes and I just wanted "something good to listen to". I was pleased with everything except for the speaker. It wasn't loud enough at low volumes, too assertive at higher volumes, and it over emphasizes low frequencies just like the last installation. While the extra oomph is nice it just has no place in music. When you go to a live performance and they are using a $400,000 sound system this extra bass is not there. If it isn't there in concert on such an expensive system or isn't there in a live musical symphony it shouldn't be there. JL thinks that trying to fool us into thinking that it was missing that we are all dumb enough to re-evaluate what fidelity sound is supposed to sound like. Says who. A company that has never made a pro audio or home audio product that can be used by proffesionals. More importantly the sound doesn't blend in with anything else in your system it is just there. A lot of loud low frequency extra sound that most of us call distortion.

My third and final test installation for this review was in a friend's 1994 Dodge Ram truck. We built a custom vented box for a 13w7. He had a Kenwood eXcellon Cd player, MB Quart Q series components, a Phoenix Gold titanium amp going to his components, 0guage power and ground cables, a deep cycle battery, a phoenix gold bass cubed, a phoenix gold 10 farad capacitor, and a Phoenix Gold MS2250 amplifier (rated at 1080 watts RMS)for the sub. How did it sound? It sounded better than the 12w7 in the last two installations, but the sub still couldn't handle the juice as noted by it bottoming out at higher volumes with the voltage only dropping down to 13.2 volts. It sounded a lot deeper than the 12 given it is only an inch and a half larger. Next amplifier, a phoenix gold tantrum 1400.1 amp (Rated at 1400 watts RMS). More distortion than the last amplifiers but a little more juice. I also noticed that the bass cubed had to be used sparingly with this amplifier as opposed to the last one mainly because of the increase in power and distortion. By the way the gains on the amlifiers were set according to the input voltage from the deck. The bass of the amps were turned all the way down and the bass cubed was set for sound quality. The final amplifier was the stuff dreams are made of, the Lanzar OptiDrive 2500 (before Pyramid bought them and turned them into a flea market brand 250x 2 rms LOL). This amplifier produced the highest SPL out of the bunch at a modest 500 watts. Keep in mind that when this amp was introduced it was banned from IASCA because of its modest rating. It actually produces an excess of 2000 watts. Keep in mind this is class AB power and not D. This kind of power has less distortion but will drain your electrical system more than a class D would. The end result: the 13 w7 nearly blew with this last amplifier.

The secret to SPL:
In performance racing there is an old saying "there is no replacement for displacement" and in SPL competition the same holds true. There is only so much one speaker can do. Bass is just a speakers ability to move the air around it. Two or three good woofers will move more air than one high-end woofer. For example two 12w6 v1/ae or two 12w3v2 will sound louder and or have more untimate potentail than one
12 w7. Even JL Audio states this in their literature. They actually say that three 10w0s will sound louder than one 10w7. just because a woofer has a long stroke doesn't mean that it will beable to move more air. There is more to it.
If we look at the case of the w7 it has one of the longest excursions in the industry, unfortunately it can't move all that air fast enough to sound like three entry level speakers. As it is moving forward and back, the lesser woofers have already moved forward and back and average of 2 to 3 times. Also keep in mind that force by which the speakers move the air is almost the same. The lesser woofers also take up the same space as the w7 and are more efficent with power. One final note, if a speaker cannot rebound fast enough (like the w7) then it cannot articulate bass well enough to be considered an SQ sub.

Final thought/Recommendations:
The old saying "a picture says a thousand words" can be translated to "listen to your ears" when it comes to audio. Simply put, listen to it before you decide to buy it. If you listen to this product, as opposed to other similar products, you will more than likely come to make some of the same conclusions as I have. However, everyone is different and sometimes people can hear or see things that others can't. I have a very trained ear for high fidelty audio from spending a lot of time listening to and performing live music, not to mention selling and installing car audio and home audio products for many years. One thing that I have learned is that a $100,000 pair of speakers isn't any better than a $100 pair of speakers if none of your clients can hear the differnce.
Let your ears be the final decision maker before you go out and buy into a high priced item such as this. Give the w6 v1/ae and w3v2 lines a listen and or try Image Dynamics ID Max woofers if you want something other than JL.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Thx_3417

Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom

Post Number: 94
Registered: May-05
If you have a van put 2 JBL 4645 in it that will blow the doors completely off

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.jmgkorea.com/image/cinemasol ution/4645c.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.jmgkorea.com/page/cinema%2520solution/4645c .htm&h=218&w=153&sz=11&tbnid=1wlwjnONwDMJ:&tbnh=101&tbnw=71&hl=en&start=3&prev=/ images%3Fq%3Djbl%2B4645%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

heheehe there goes the neighbourhood

I'll say the level will be around 130.1db

RESULTS


dB Gain from amplifier

dB Loss due to dispersion (distance)

dB Gain from sonic reinforcement (multi speakers)

db Gain from placement (reinforcement from reflected sound)

dB SPL at listening postion


That's roughly the same SPL level inside the space shuttle upon lunch.

And I have read all about db drag SPL levels too 160 170db that's mad and within harms-way Dangerously stupid did you know LFA that is low frequency antenna used by the US navy can output to 240db try that db drag!



KABOOM!

Ashley

 

Gold Member
Username: Subfanatic

Walton, Ky

Post Number: 3857
Registered: Dec-04
ummm, actually under a rocket is only 200 dbs and its only because it changes chemicals in earths atmosphere, in db drag you barely EVER get over 130 dbs, no where neer 160, and for your infotmation earths atmosphere only allows 180 dbs of pressure, the thing about the low frequency antenna is bs
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe_c

Oakwood, Ga

Post Number: 321
Registered: Mar-05
Actually, a rocket has a loudness of 180-200db depending on who is testing, and the lfa is not bull here is one article : http://www.mindfully.org/Technology/2005/SURTASS-LFA-Sonar4mar05.htm
and here is another : http://www.lowertheboom.org/trice/infrasound.htm
Sub, I respect a lot of what you have to offer in the car stereo dept., do your research before you start saying things are bs.
 

Gold Member
Username: Subfanatic

Walton, Ky

Post Number: 3900
Registered: Dec-04
yea, i understand that, but isnt infra sound UN HEARABLE, just because some shakes alot doesnt mean its loud, and when we are talking about DBs in car audio it measure loudness of bass, not loudness. they are two different things
 

Silver Member
Username: Joe_c

Oakwood, Ga

Post Number: 324
Registered: Mar-05
lol A little more education will help sub. Car audio db's are from subwoofers right? "sub" woofers. Which generate most of their sound from sub-levels in the human hearing range right. So infra sound is just going a little lower. Just cause we can't hear it does not mean it isn't just as harmful to our eardrums as anything above 20hz or thereabouts.
 

Bronze Member
Username: Mike_anthes

Canton, SD USA

Post Number: 87
Registered: Aug-04
i had 1 15" adire audio brahma mk 2 and now i just got another one...i am runnin em of of 2 hifonics amps...(im savin for better amps...most likely the re amps)...and i know FOR SURE one of my brahma 15"'s could kick the hell out of yur jl's...jl is way overpriced for what you get...
 

Bronze Member
Username: Mike_anthes

Canton, SD USA

Post Number: 88
Registered: Aug-04
with my 2 brahma 15"s i hit in the neighborhood of 153-154ish...its pretty sweet!!!
 

Gold Member
Username: Subfanatic

Walton, Ky

Post Number: 4117
Registered: Dec-04
well a 13.5 inch w7 with a 1000/1 by teamaudioitch, on here hit 151 dbs, and adding another would add 3 dbs, so im guessing you would lose michael
 

Silver Member
Username: Cenus

Hicksville, Ohio Usa

Post Number: 178
Registered: Jan-05
LOL you ppl are so funny, why do you care about getting over 150, 160, 170 db when you can't listen to it or you will go death in mere seconds. LMAO
 

Bump Man X
Unregistered guest
everyone needs to chill the f*ck out,relax,smoke a doobie,make friends listen to each others s*hit, give props, you guys are stressin over a message board
 

Bump Man X
Unregistered guest
everyone needs to chill the f*ck out,relax,smoke a doobie,make friends listen to each others s*hit, give props, you guys are stressin over a message board
 

Unregistered guest
hey i just wanna know for a single speaker w7 13.5 or 12 inch t2 fosgate i have an acura vigor 92 let me know via email Kendog383@yahoo.com

i dont care to omuch about perfect sound quality i wanna inpress the stupid whor es walking down the blvd not a sound tech
 

Gold Member
Username: Subfanatic

Walton, Ky

Post Number: 4319
Registered: Dec-04
i would go w7 with that job cause it will move better, but to be honest, if you want to show those girls, get a 15 inch or 12 inch or hell even a 10 inch RE MT, run about 2500-3000 watts rms
 

Silver Member
Username: Cenus

Hicksville, Ohio Usa

Post Number: 237
Registered: Jan-05
or a shocker audio sig, they would give that mt a run for his money and it would not cost as much for a amp.
 

Gold Member
Username: Subfanatic

Walton, Ky

Post Number: 4326
Registered: Dec-04
dustin man lol, i still dont believe it, drive your a$$ down here lol, your 2 sigs vs my 2 tis lol, haha
 

pintsofguiness
Unregistered guest
You guys are forgetting about the alpine type x's. Just got 2 10" and are awesome
 

Anonymous
 
LMFAO at the BICKERING that goes on here!! Gheesh, the admins here must be on acid or something!!
 

AJ Burks
Unregistered guest
Yeah right- thats all bogus.....I've heard both the JL W7 and the MTX 9500 and the MTX KILLS the JL Audio. You guys need to stop this band-wagon sh*t....The MTX murders the W7 hands down.
 

stevie211
Unregistered guest
I have to agree with AJ. I do a lot of installs on wake boats. I have heard the jls, the mtx 9500s and the crystal comp 12s and the mtx are superior in many ways.
 

Unregistered guest
well the i think will be...
pioneer, jl audio, rf, mtx, audiobahn,and possibly sony xplode brands if you know how to use and install them correctly.

and what i think should go head to head should be pioneer premier, jl w7, and mtx audio's jackhammer.
 

Gold Member
Username: Subfanatic

Ky

Post Number: 4669
Registered: Dec-04
the jackhammer will slaughter any of the subs listed, only competition worthy subs against the jackhammer would be the ti pro, the MT, and DD 9500 and 9900, maybe shocker sigs to.
 

ooops
Unregistered guest
I can only say that opinions are like a$$holes...everyone has one. If you give a sh!t at all, you will not listen to anyone here. You will listen to the subwoofers. If it comes down to SPL numbers, which in most cases it does(because no one really gives a sh!t about how it sounds or everyone would have a single 10" woofer), than all you have to look at is the surface area of the sub and the xmax. The more air it can move the louder it will be. Once you know this, you can start looking at power. If you have two woofer combinations that will move the same amount of air, pick the set up that will handle more power. Because you know you will be beating the sh!t out of it. As for The Jackhammer, I don't know of any single woofer that can move that much air and handle that much power, has a 6.5" aluminum voice coil, 900 oz. magnet.....come on people....who can say no? The poor. The compact-car. The pu$$ies. Period.
 

Gold Member
Username: Subfanatic

Ky

Post Number: 4692
Registered: Dec-04
ok well your pretty much right except for the looking at power, cause sorry, but power means nothing in car audio
 

ooops
Unregistered guest
power means nothing? Ok.....would you buy a 15" that can take 100 watts or one that can take 600 watts? the thermal limits of a voice coil is a pretty good clue to how long you can beat on it with your crap amp juiced at 20% distortion!
 

Gold Member
Username: Subfanatic

Ky

Post Number: 4696
Registered: Dec-04
dude, i know that lol, but it doesnt matter in the long run. The power handling on a sbuwoofer determines its BL curve, for example, the RE x.x.x uses the XBL^2 motor right. right. well what else does, adire, ascendant audio. so lets see, the RE x.x.x and the Ascendant audio avalanch uses the xbl^2 motor as well. BUT the re x.x.x is 1600 watts rms the and the ava is 800. the reason being is becasue RE tweaked the BL curve to give slightly more spl than the avalanch uses, the avalanch would take that power but the x.x.x needs that power. and those two subs are very very comparable subs,. they are in essence thes ame sub. But if you use the same power for both subs. then you would use 2 avas and 1 x.x.x. i promise you the x.x.x will never be as loud. OR lets just say the Eclipse Ti, its only 750 watts rms, and if we did vgood enclosures on all three subs. with correct power. in a good car. i bet you the TI with the least power handling will Win in spl or sq. ive fooled with all 3 subs. They are all above good subs. But the Ti is better in my opinion. and in most who have fooled with them
 

Silver Member
Username: Tbolt

Collipark, GA United State...

Post Number: 529
Registered: Dec-04
You love the ti too much. Also the tc sounds motors have very flat BL curves as well.
 

runit
Unregistered guest
subfanatic, why do you always turn everything into an advertisement of the gear you have?.... "oh yeah, well, the sky is blue and I have Ti's, so there!" Bl curve determines how well the magnet can keep the voice coil under control in the gap at xmax. Measuring the force of the magnet determines Bl. What does that have to do with power handling? That has more to do with sensitivity. Can someone else besides Subfanatic correct me if I'm wrong? I don't want to hear about Ti's anymore. :-)
 

runit
Unregistered guest
just so you know, you would need about (6) 12" Ti's to move as much air as the Jackhammer.
 

Gold Member
Username: Subfanatic

Ky

Post Number: 4701
Registered: Dec-04
iceman, i know they do lol,. thats what the ti uses lol. Runit. actually i dont run a ti in my car, i have a 12w7 and 1000/1. but i love that sub because its the best sub i have ever used. simple as that. haha. and yes i know the Tis wouldnt compare the jackhammer.im talking ti pros. lol, but what about a parthenon vs the jackhammer?
 

runit
Unregistered guest
The parthenon is a curiosity, a novalty piece. It is cool to see things like that and think about what they can do and see big numbers posted about the huge amounts of SPL at low cycles, but just like the Cyclone from P.G., it has no place in car audio.
 

runit
Unregistered guest
The parthenon is a curiosity, a novalty piece. It is cool to see things like that and think about what they can do and see big numbers posted about the huge amounts of SPL at low cycles, but just like the Cyclone from P.G., it has no place in car audio.
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