Need a good SQ/SQL sub!!
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 19 Registered: Mar-05 | I am currently looking for a sub to possibly replace my Kappa Perfect 12.1. Sound quality is an absolute must, but I wouldn't mind having a bit more performance than the Perfect 12.1 I have now. At the moment I'm investigating the Image Dynamics IDQ12V.3, RE SE or SX (12"), Adire Koda 12, and Atlas 12 from Ascendant Audio. Prices are all fairly reasonable so that isn't much of a concern. I listen to about every type of music, from classical to rap, so it can't be a one trick pony. It needs to be able to handle the low end and still keep up on fast transients and complex patterns. I love the quality of sound I get from my Kappa Perfect but would like more performance without sacrificing SQ. However, I don't want a sub that is too overpowering and overshadows my components. Would any of these subs fit the bill? Also, I have an amp that puts out roughly 425-450 watts RMS to the sub, so whatever I get needs to be able to achieve its full potential with that amount of power. Thanks for your help. |
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Silver Member Username: DankmanGranger, Indiana United States Post Number: 105 Registered: Jan-05 | Yea man i got this eclipse aluminum 12 the new model its the SW7124 DVC T-2's and they sound very clean and knock hard theyre only 209.99 off www.wooferetc.com i think its a good deal and they handle 450rms 900peak. just a suggestion. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 1220 Registered: Jun-04 | if your going to do the image dynamics do the idmax 12 |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 2196 Registered: Dec-04 | Well thats not enough power to run the ID max, too much power for the Atlas,and I believe the Koda is 8ohms but not sure. I would run two atlas'. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3617 Registered: May-04 | The ID Max is actually very efficient and works well with around 500W RMS, even a little lower. You just won't get full potential out of it, but it will be just as good as if you had a sub rated at that level of power. 750W is near ideal for one in most daily driven applications. |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 2199 Registered: Dec-04 | I stand corrected! I thought you needed about 700 to efficiently run that sub but Jonathan knows more then me so there you have it. |
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Gold Member Username: CarguyPost Number: 2269 Registered: Nov-04 | I'll be the sane one and deliver a message from the "concerned" parents! Do not listen to 750w rms for long period of time. Not good for your ears, nor people with heart transplant, weak lungs, and noise sensitive animals.  |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3619 Registered: May-04 | It's similar to the Brahma in the fact that they overbuild voice coils more so than other manufacturers. The sub actually belts out some high SPL numbers and outdisplaces a Brahma. 750W works well for it in sealed enclosures, with a ported box you can provide more cone control and push the power level up a bit more. |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 2201 Registered: Dec-04 | thats what I was going by, but when he said he needed the sub to get to its full potential with 450 watts I ws kinda skeptic about the ID max doing that. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 23 Registered: Mar-05 | So would the ID MAX be one of my best options, better than an IDQ given my power level and desire to maintain SQ? Also, would the ID MAX be better than the Atlas, Adire Koda, or RE SE in terms of SQ and SPL with the 400+ watts available? I can't audition any of these firsthand so I need objective help from you guys on how the subs compare. Thanks. |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 491 Registered: Feb-05 | how whould a jl 500/1 amp go with the ID MAX 12 ?? I know the 500/1 is underated. |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 2215 Registered: Dec-04 | I would put more power to it! Jonathan runs his with a 1000/1. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 24 Registered: Mar-05 | Any opinions on my last post? |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 492 Registered: Feb-05 | jonathan what kinda box do you have your id max in??? what is the best box for me if i were to run it off the 500/1 and i listen to mostly rap and electronica. I could always run it off my ppi pcx2200 800 x 1 rms at 4ohms bridged. Just a matter of how much power i wanna take out of my electrial system since i dont have a HO alternator yet. |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 2217 Registered: Dec-04 | if you were gonna do the ID max MO I would recomend the PPI amp at 800 watts. Jon has his in a sealed enclosure. Justin, What amp do you have that is giving you 450-500 watts is it that power at 4ohms or 2ohms? |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3640 Registered: May-04 | I have mine sealed, but when I got the 1000/1 I knew it would be overpowered from the get-go, but I'm conservative with the volume level. Overpowering can be a good thing within reason as long as you use it properly. Sealed the sub will reach it's potential with around 700-800W RMS. Ported will raise it's power handling. Either amp will work well with an ID Max, you'll get good SPL out of it with the 500/1, and of course the PPI amp will do even better. The ID Max has a strong motor, a large surface area, and a long throw, it will displace a lot of air in many enclosures. Remember that doubling the power is equivalent to a 3db increase, so comparing a 500/1 to a 1000/1 would only provide 3 more dbs, but in this case it could possibly be less in certain enclosures since you'd be pushing the sub to or past it's limit. SQ of the ID Max is top notch, but of course sound is a subjective matter so what I like won't necessarily be what you like. As far as enclosures, I am limited to sealed because of the truck it's in, but sealed, ported, aperiodic, infinite baffle all work very well with that sub, it's pretty universal. Low tuned ported that sub is great, very clean and good output. |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 507 Registered: Feb-05 | James got me all into the Avalanche 15 and it reads very impressive on paper and from what james real life experience.. So i may go with that sub now and just deciding on which amp. You can check out our 500 watt subwoofer post. |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 509 Registered: Feb-05 | let me know what you think about the avalanche john |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3642 Registered: May-04 | Haven't heard it yet, but I can't knock XBL^2 either . SQ wise I'd expect it to be very similar to a Brahma or X.X.X., the motors are the same, the suspension is similar to that of an X.X.X. The Avalanche will be louder than the ID Max due to the surface area. As far as SQ, I'd guess I'd still like the ID Max, but I'm basing that on the fact that I liked it better than a Brahma and X.X.X. for SQ, the Avalanche is very similar to both of those. You'd also be paying more for an ID Max, though, so you're not exactly on an even playing field. |
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Silver Member Username: FishyTamarac Ft.Laud, FL USA Post Number: 891 Registered: Sep-04 | Haven't heard it yet, but I can't knock XBL^2 either . SQ wise I'd expect it to be very similar to a Brahma or X.X.X., the motors are the same, the suspension is similar to that of an X.X.X. Yeah, the Atlas I looked at seemed to have the Brahma frame and a Koda motor. -Fishy |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3644 Registered: May-04 | They're getting rave reviews very quickly, can't knock them. The efficiency of the subs for the power given is what I've heard of more than anything, especially in the case of the Atlas. From what I hear the Avalanche is very similar to a Brahma or X.X.X. in low bass performance and SQ, but doesn't have quite as much upper bass rolloff that they do, in 15" form anyway. |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 510 Registered: Feb-05 | James was saying that the Avalanche will get louder then the RE SE 12 and the RE SX 12 and which both i was considering until i read all the rave review. Besides James has owned a few subs and has had real life experience with them so i take his word on this avalanche. From what i hear they are very efficiant and are loud and maintain good SQ. I hear there customer service is excellant. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 25 Registered: Mar-05 | To answer James' question, I have a Phoenix Gold Xenon X200.4 that automatically senses the impedance load just like the JL amps. The reviews I've read indicate that the amp puts out its max. power at the highest loads (8ohms-bridged) and it's probably around 225-235 RMS per channel at 14.4v. I have a voltage gauge and my charging system holds pretty steady at 14.0+ when the car is running, which is the only time I listen to the stereo, so it should be delivering close to max. power. I love that Perfect sub for SQ and how tight the bass feels, but I just don't get as much bass as I would like, even in a slot port box with 1.75cuft of air space. I figured the Atlas or Adire Koda subs would give me more SPL, but I wasn't sure if their SQ would be as good. Honestly, I hadn't even contemplated an ID Max because of the power requirements, but if Jonathan thinks it would sound good with around 450 watts then maybe I'll look at going with it. I didn't even think about the gaining only 3db with a doubling of power aspect. Also, I know it must have great SQ if Jonathan's using one. Would the ID Max offer a significant improvement over the Perfect in terms of SPL (given the same power level) without sacrificing SQ? Would the ID Max be a better choice for me than the Adire Koda or Atlas subs? Also, how does the RE SE compare to these? I don't really care about the cost difference between them, if the ID Max is the best option, I would rather have the better sub and pay a little more if necessary. Thanks again for the help everyone, I do appreciate it. |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 2247 Registered: Dec-04 | ID max is a absolutely fantastic sub you cant go wrong with that. I would do that and see how it works out and if you feel that you need more power down the raod look into a new amp thats the whole fun of car audio is mixing and matching equipment to try to obtain the best system possable Hey Jon the Avalanche is very similar in SQ to the brahma but I preffer the Avalanche over it for one reason, "The efficiency of the subs for the power given is what I've heard of more than anything," That is exactly why, with the 600 watts I am giving my Avalanche sounds better then my Brahma did in the same enclosure with the same power. |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 512 Registered: Feb-05 | thats a good question..i was thinking about going with the RE SE but its mainly a SQ driver. I was looking for more spl with good sq so it came down to the ID MAX and the Atlas and the Avalanche at the end of the day. The ID MAX has top notch SQ as jonathan said but to reach full potential youll need around 700watts rms but 450 watts will sound good to as jonathan also said. If you have the wattage i whould go with the IDMAX 12 or if you have less wattage then definetly go with the Atlas as you will get awesome spl and good sq aswell. I personally am staying with the Avalanche single 15. It reads impressive so far for a overall sql driver. GOODLUCK |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 2248 Registered: Dec-04 | you will not be dissapointed MO Like Jon said the steep roll off in the upper HTZ levels are not as powerful as the brahma but when it comes to the deep lows pretty much anything under 50htz is hit with AUTHORITY! Dont get me wrong its not like the speaker sucks in the upper range its just not a powerful as the REXXX and the Brahma its a small step under them when it comes to that but in the low range it is extremely impressive |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 27 Registered: Mar-05 | Hey Jonathan, what are your opinions regarding my last post and assuming I will be giving 450 watts to whatever sub I choose, including the ID Max. Thanks also to James and MO for the help. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3647 Registered: May-04 | If you're wanting a big SPL improvement, the Avalanche will offer it. If you want something a little louder than the Perfect, then the ID Max is a good bet. Raw displacement the Avalanche wins out in this case, and saying it's similar to a Brahma in SQ, it can't be a bad thing . The ID Max is very efficient (more so than the Perfect, the 96db Perfect rating is BS and is taken in a car with 2.83V instead of 1W/1M, real sensitivity is in the 80s) and would be a noticeable improvement over the Perfect, but won't be as loud as the Avalanche would. Getting loud is a challenge, making a sub quieter isn't a problem . It's all in what you want. |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 513 Registered: Feb-05 | Hey jonathan in the Avalanche 15 case, how many decibals whould i gain going from a 500/1 to a ppi pcx2200 800watt rms amp. On there site they recommend ported if your giving it 500 watts and sealed if your giving it 800watts. Let me know.. |
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Bronze Member Username: Terps297Potomac, MD USA Post Number: 80 Registered: Oct-04 | those specs aren't right, those are for home audio use, contact ascendant for the right specs. |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 514 Registered: Feb-05 | Brain your in potomac and im in gaithersburg..just noticed |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 2251 Registered: Dec-04 | Hey Brian what spec's arnt right? |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 517 Registered: Feb-05 | ok to clear things up here you go james. Here is the link http://www.ascendantaudio.com/Avalanche%2015%20sealed%20enclosure%20recommendati ons.htm Basically says you need a bigger box if you wanna run 500watts and smaller to run 800watts. |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 518 Registered: Feb-05 | question james. This guy is trying to offer me a deal on a Eclipse SW9152 Titanium Subwoofer 15" that does 750rms and 1500peak. Its used but in good condition and he says it hits hard. How does $350-$400 sound??? and how does it compare to the avalanche ? |
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Bronze Member Username: Terps297Potomac, MD USA Post Number: 88 Registered: Oct-04 | some guy talked to chad from ascendant and he sait that all the box sizes and power ratings are for home audio use, he said to call up chad to get the right box sizes and tuning freq's for car audio. |
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Bronze Member Username: Terps297Potomac, MD USA Post Number: 89 Registered: Oct-04 | look on ebat MO you can get them for 380 new shipped i'm lookin at one now, hopefully to be powered by an ed nine.1 and yes they do hit hard but also have great sq from what i hear... |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 519 Registered: Feb-05 | let me know james.. |
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Bronze Member Username: Terps297Potomac, MD USA Post Number: 90 Registered: Oct-04 | ebay* |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 29 Registered: Mar-05 | Hey Jonathan, I certainly want an SPL improvement, but like I said I don't want a ground pounder that is absolutely overkill on bass. I prefer a setup probably very similar to what you prefer - a good daily driver system primarily setup for SQ, but great bass output when you want it. However the Perfect just doesn't quite cut it for SPL. I need something that first and foremost maintains the level of SQ I want (which the Perfect does fine and it sounds like the ID Max would also). Then I also want to see a noticeable gain in output using the same 450 watts I'm running now. I don't want to buy a bigger amp at this time. I agree that the Perfect efficiency rating seems way inflated and probably isn't that efficient in comparison to other subs, so the ID Max would certainly have an advantage there as well and would help make the most of the power I have available. I am not interested in the Avalanche at all because I do not want a 15" sub, space concerns being the main reason and I'm just partial to 12's in general. I also don't want two subs. I'm just looking for a minimalist SQ setup with the fewest drivers necessary- component set and one sub. If the ID Max would be a noticeable improvement over the Perfect with the same power and equal SQ, then that sounds like a winner! Do you think the SQ of the ID Max would be on par with the Perfect I have now? Does it deliver very tight, low end bass and also handle transients well? The resonant frequency of the ID Max is a little higher (about 28 compared to 23Hz) which I assume is because the ID Max is setup a bit more for SPL. How does the ID Max perform on the low end of the spectrum? Sorry to beat this thread into the ground, but I just want to make sure I have as much info as possible before throwing the money out there for a new sub and I don't really have anyone around here that will give me an objective opinion. Thanks again. |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 520 Registered: Feb-05 | Just stick with the IDMAX. Its much better then the infinity perfect in all aspects. You wont be dissappointed. It will sound great with the same amp you have now. James let me know about my earliar post. |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 521 Registered: Feb-05 | question james. This guy is trying to offer me a deal on a Eclipse SW9152 Titanium Subwoofer 15" that does 750rms and 1500peak. Its used but in good condition and he says it hits hard. How does $350-$400 sound??? and how does it compare to the avalanche ? |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3653 Registered: May-04 | "If the ID Max would be a noticeable improvement over the Perfect with the same power and equal SQ, then that sounds like a winner! Do you think the SQ of the ID Max would be on par with the Perfect I have now? Does it deliver very tight, low end bass and also handle transients well? The resonant frequency of the ID Max is a little higher (about 28 compared to 23Hz) which I assume is because the ID Max is setup a bit more for SPL. How does the ID Max perform on the low end of the spectrum?" Actually I'd put the SQ above the Perfect by a noticeable amount, of course it is subjective, but most people that have heard both will back me up on that one. Very clean, deep, tight bass, transients are handled extremely well and it everything in low end and midbass transition is handled authoritatively and most important, accurately. SPL wise it outdoes the Perfect by a noticeable amount, especially comparing ported to ported. As far as the resonant frequency, you must be reading an older document, download the latest information on the sub(s), all of them are around a 20hz resonant frequency, that is in 10" or 12" form in both coil configurations. 12 D2 has an Fs of 20.2hz, 12" d4 has an Fs of 20 hz. In a low tuned ported box, those subs are plain out wicked, I promise . |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 525 Registered: Feb-05 | Jonathan you know anything about this Eclipse SW9152 Titanium Subwoofer 15". It does 750rms and this guy is offering it to me for around $350-$400 and it comes in a sealed box. Let me know. Also for the avalanche..how much decibals will i gain going from the 500/1 to the 800watt ppi pcx2200 amp. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3654 Registered: May-04 | Very good subs, I'd put it in Avalanche territory for SPL, but only when powered properly, they're more power hungry than many subs. They work very well ported. They're well underrated, with the power you have you wouldn't get quite as good results IMO. As far as the amp comparison, I wouldn't expect a huge gain, maybe 2db or so, but the 500/1 is underrated too. |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 2252 Registered: Dec-04 | well Mo Jonathan cleared that up.lol. that exactly what I would have said as far as the TI goes. MO you can buy those subs on Ebay like brian said for cheaper then that brand new. I wouls stick with the Avalanche you wont be dissapointed I promise you. As far as the specs for Avalanche I am running mine in 2.5 cu/ft sealed with about 600 wayys from a ppi a600 so it is a little underrated but it SLAMS, like I said before it gets so loud sometimes I have to tur it down just to regain my thought properly! lolol! If you plan to po ported with it I cant imagine how loud it could be, and sound GREAT while doing it as well thats the great part. Hey Justin as far as your questions about the ID max having as good SPL and as good SQ as your infinity, I agree with Jonathan's statements the ID max will put a whoopin to the infinity sub in every aspect and from SPL and SQ purposes! It is one of my favorite subs I have ever heard when it comes to SQ you really cant touch that sub with many others. |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 529 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks guys..Now the only question left is sealed or ported if i go with the 500/1 amp and the avalanche 15. Let me know guys. Thanks |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 30 Registered: Mar-05 | "SPL wise it outdoes the Perfect by a noticeable amount, especially comparing ported to ported" Is that comparing both with the 450 watts I'd be providing? Just want to compare apples to apples. If so, it sounds like the ID Max is the way to go for what I want. Now, assuming I will be giving the sub about 450 watts what type and size of box should I run? I think I want to stick with a slot port box to get every bit of output I can from it, and because the ID Max's seem to perform really well in the ported boxes from what I've read. If I do go with the ported, how big should I make it and how low should it be tuned? This is where I really need help, because no shops around me will have had any experience with these subs and won't have a clue about the box designs they work best in. It looks like 28-30Hz tuning and somewhere around 2.0 cuft is recommended, but I want opinions from you guys that have used them before firsthand. Also, any specific design ideas or dimensions, especially regarding the slot port dimensions, would be greatly appreciated. I will probably just get overall specs for the box from you guys and bring them to a shop to build it for me. Thanks |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 533 Registered: Feb-05 | Yeah justin that is what im gonna do with my avalanche 15..end up getting the specs from online and taking it to a local dealer. Go with the IDMAX. I promise you wont be dissapointed. ..Now the only question left is sealed or ported if i go with the 500/1 amp and the avalanche 15. Let me know guys. Thanks |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 535 Registered: Feb-05 | also this is what they recommend for enclosure sizes for the Avalanche 15 so you can get an idea. http://www.ascendantaudio.com/Avalanche%2015%20sealed%20enclosure%20recommendati ons.htm They recommend polyfill for the sub. What does this do??? So what kinda box should i use if im running it off the 500/1 which is underated?? |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 31 Registered: Mar-05 | Any help with the last post? Jonathan, your thoughts? Thanks. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 32 Registered: Mar-05 | bump |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 563 Registered: Feb-05 | They recommend polyfill for the sub. What does this do??? So what kinda box should i use if im running it off the 500/1 which is underated?? in this case the avalanche 15 of course |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 33 Registered: Mar-05 | Hey Jonathan, any help? Thanks. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 35 Registered: Mar-05 | Can anyone help with this: "SPL wise it outdoes the Perfect by a noticeable amount, especially comparing ported to ported" Is that comparing both with the 450 watts I'd be providing? Just want to compare apples to apples. If so, it sounds like the ID Max is the way to go for what I want. Now, assuming I will be giving the sub about 450 watts what type and size of box should I run? I think I want to stick with a slot port box to get every bit of output I can from it, and because the ID Max's seem to perform really well in the ported boxes from what I've read. If I do go with the ported, how big should I make it and how low should it be tuned? This is where I really need help, because no shops around me will have had any experience with these subs and won't have a clue about the box designs they work best in. It looks like 28-30Hz tuning and somewhere around 2.0 cuft is recommended, but I want opinions from you guys that have used them before firsthand. Also, any specific design ideas or dimensions, especially regarding the slot port dimensions, would be greatly appreciated. I will probably just get overall specs for the box from you guys and bring them to a shop to build it for me. Thanks |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3661 Registered: May-04 | Sorry, missed the post. It works well sealed or ported, good all around capabilities. Ported, you could go for something around 2.25-2.5 cu ft net tuned to around 28 hz, you could even drop lower if you wanted to. I'm in a bit of a hurry right now, though, once I get back I'll help you with box dimensions if you need them. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 37 Registered: Mar-05 | I look forward to discussing this more Jonathan, you are a big help. What is the effect of lowering the tuning freq. from say 28hz to 27 or 26hz? Also, given the power I'll have available, do you recommend a certain box type? Thanks |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 596 Registered: Feb-05 | Jonathan i am gonna run my avalanche 15 off of my ZAPCO referance 500M mono class ab amplifier. It puts out 500x1@4ohms and 700x1@2ohms RMS. I listen to mostly rap and electronica and needed some help deciding what box i wanna put them in. Sealed or Ported. The differances in this case for my application..please let me know when you get back..thanks |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 2282 Registered: Dec-04 | Hey Mo in this case it doesnt matter what the amp does at 2ohms because you cant run the amp with that sub at 2ohms anyways. I would go sealed but if you are gonna go ported I would tune it to 25htz or so but that is just me. Sealed sounds fantastic with my application, by the way its in a jeep cherokee I think you asked me that before. |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 600 Registered: Feb-05 | what??? ..damn it! i thought i could use that amp at 700x1@2ohms with that avalanche? What is the avalanches impedence?? What should i do now cause ive won the zapco on ebay for a good price brand new. Its either that or 500/1! ppi pcx2200 is out of the question for now. |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 2286 Registered: Dec-04 | I would run the zapco if the PPI is out of the ?. The avalanche is dual 2ohm man so you can run it at 4ohms or 1ohm. How much did you get the zapco for? |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 601 Registered: Feb-05 | $420 Brand New. It can do 538x1@4ohms and 700x1@2ohms and it doesnt say anything about 1 ohms.. |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 2287 Registered: Dec-04 | its not 1ohm mono stable. I would try to sell it if you can for what you paid for it. |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 602 Registered: Feb-05 | Yeah most likely..i guess i will stick with the good old jl 500/1. In reality it puts out more watts rms then the zapco cause the zapco test sheet says 538@4ohms and i know the jl 500/1 can do close to 600watts. |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 2288 Registered: Dec-04 | yup |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3662 Registered: May-04 | Ok, I'm back now. Justin, the tuning frequency is simply the frequency that the port will become active at. Above that frequency will also be affected, your peak SPL will usually be a little above tuning. Remember that a ported box rolls off at a very high rate below tuning and the sub loses control, so if you tune a box to 45 hz and frequently listen to test tones or really low bass, you'd risk damage and wouldn't get the results you're after. Lowering the frequency is simply changing where you want your SPL band to be, a low tune is great for sound quality and depth, especially if the box is big enough to get a flat response out of it. It also has a lot of punch to it, not your typical 45 hz high tune ported box that people stereotype so often. Main things I need to know are how much space you have to work with (maybe a gross box dimension, or just rough measurements), what kind of car it is, what you want out of the sub (sound quality emphasis, all around SQ/SPL with depth and punch, more SPL while still having decent SQ, or even more SPL inclined while sacrificing more SQ, I know that's a lot of options ). Also, what kind of music do you listen to? And last thing, with the power you have, either would work well. Ported of course would lend itself to more SPL, but sealed wouldn't have a problem with 450W either. It's just about how loud you want it, if you want to beat the Perfect you had, then you'll likely want ported. |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 603 Registered: Feb-05 | Ok james, my system is complete now. I will be running image dynamics cxs62 chamoeons with my ppi art 300.2 amp. I am running the Avalanche 15 with the JL 500/1. My head unit will be the Eclipse cd8454. Each preout is 8V and isaac was saying that in that case i should keep my ppi a300.2 gain to the minimum. Also for the Avalanche is it a good idea to stay sealed so the lows blend in better with the front stage of the car or it doesnt matter? |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 604 Registered: Feb-05 | jonathan can you explain what i should do with the 8V situation with runnning that older ppi a300.2 and how i should set the gain and freq from the hu. Also my Avalanche will go in a sedan style car like a camry or accord. i have 18" of height to work with and over 40" of width and im not exactly sure how much depth but probably like 27" or so. I have fit the jl HO wedge box in this trunk before to give you an idea for the 12w7. Im trying to decide between sealed and ported. I listen to mostly rap and some electronica. I want an every day driver but i want it to get loud and have good sq too when it needs to. I want it to keep up with the faster bass at times when it needs to count. Also whould like to work with my front stage componant set and work nice toghether. |
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Gold Member Username: James1115Wilton, Ct Post Number: 2296 Registered: Dec-04 | the outer dimensions on my box for my avalanche are 16h x 16d x 24w and the front baffle is doubled up. it is 2.5cu/ft sealed. Chad gave me those dimensions with 600-800 watts of power. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3665 Registered: May-04 | Either or, sealed or low tune ported will both sound great if done properly. You should be able to fit the single 15" in there with a custom box no problem. Head units are rated for a peak output, that is because it uses a 0db reference level (meaning the absolute highest crescendo of music will cause the head unit to put out it's maximum). That's the way it needs to be rated with the form of media it plays. Amplifiers, on the other hand, typically rate gain controls in RMS voltage input. Usually an amp rated lower in sensitivity than a preout will still accept it. |
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Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 605 Registered: Feb-05 | So i should keep the gain lower then half way to be safe? |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 39 Registered: Mar-05 | Hey MO, I'm not trying to be a d!ck or anything, but if you have a question you want answered why don't you post a new thread? It seems like every time I post something, you come in after me with your own question. The problem is that it takes focus away from my question and makes it hard for people to figure out what to respond to. I just think it is disrespectful to interrupt someone's thread by asking questions relating to your own system. If you have any information that you would like to share with me regarding my questions, I would be delighted to hear it, otherwise please post your questions for the forum on a new thread. Like I said, not trying to be an a**hole, but I see this happen a lot and it is very aggrivating for the person placing the original post. Sorry if this pisses anyone off and I certainly have no ill will towards anyone, including you MO. Thanks. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 40 Registered: Mar-05 | Hey Jonathan, I have a Honda Civic Si and would be more than happy to provide a couple pics of the hatch area that I can email to you so you have a better idea of my space available. I have about 39 inches between the wheel wells and about 17 inches of height available. Depth is probably about 18 inches or so given that I will be mounting the amp on the back of the box as well. I listen to about every type of music from classical to rap, except country. I want the sub to be very musical and have great SQ as the primary focus, but I also want to be able to hammer away on the electronic and rap songs with deep, tight, accurate bass that doesn't sound sloppy or too SPL oriented. I want good musicality most of the time with deep, tight bass, and the ability to pound away, still with quality though, when I'm in the mood (which is where the Kappa Perfect struggled a bit). Probably more interested in either the SQ emphasized box or all purpose SQ/SPL box you mentioned. Low tuning on a ported box would definitely be a requirement as I'm not looking to enter any SPL contests just want a good daily driver system. Let me know where to email those pics if you want them, and tell me if you need any other info. Thanks very much. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 41 Registered: Mar-05 | Hey Jon, on a side note, I've seem some video files of ID Max's and noticed that the surrounds often crinkle quite a bit. Is there any drawback to the surround not holding its shape, or is it designed to do that and perfectly normal with no effect on sound quality? Thanks again. By the way, my email is jrbaileyindy@comcast.net if you want it. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3668 Registered: May-04 | About the surrounds, yes they are designed to dimple at high excursions. The tall profile of the surround necessitates it more so than a wider profile surround, if not the surround could potentially fold over on itself at very high excursions (worst case scenario). It isn't only the ID Max, many high excursion subs dimple at high volumes. And yes, there is a little surround noise at super high excursions, you only need to concern yourself with that in sealed boxes or infinite baffle with lots of power, ported it isn't a problem. By that point it will be so loud that any sub would sound less than optimal anyway. About the enclosure, give me a little while and I'll try to draw you up something. Don't worry about the pics, my email sux and it won't really give me a specific idea of the space anyway. I'll get back to you on it. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3670 Registered: May-04 | About the box, I'm going to give you generalized dimensions and you can fit as needed. I recommend a slot port, 12" tall by 2" wide (INTERNAL dimensions, that is how big the opening must be, if you use .75" MDF it means you will get that with a 13.5" tall box). Box gross volume will be 3.15 cu ft, this is also internal dimensions. Formula to determine cubic foot is LxWxH, and you divide that by 1728 to determine your cubic foot. Slot port will be roughly 29 inches long, you can L around the wall to achieve this length. Basically, if you build a 3.15 cu ft gross box and apply that slot port, you'll be good to go. BTW, that box will be 2.5 cu ft net tuned to around 28hz, a great SQ tune with good SPL, I use the calculator on www.bcae1.com if you're curious, I've already added volume necessary to compensate for both the space that the wood used for the port and the subwoofer displacement. All you have to do is build the box within your cars allowances and go. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 42 Registered: Mar-05 | Hey Jonathan, thanks very much for the help. I think 28Hz will be great for what I want, great SQ with good SPL. Tell me if my calculations are correct for this box as far as meeting your generalized recommendations: L-29.5 inches D-17.5 inches H-13.5 inches *slot port should be 14.75 inches deep and 14.25 inches long across the back of the box -I believe these measurements (which are external using .75" MDF) will give me a box with your recommended 3.15 cu ft internal volume. Let me know if this sounds right. Also, where would I mount the sub? All the way at the other end away from the port I'm sure, but how far from the edge should it be placed? If possible, could you give me a recommendation for a slightly taller box with the same tuning freq.? Thanks again. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 43 Registered: Mar-05 | bump |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3684 Registered: May-04 | Any slot with a 24 cubic inch area (Height x width of the port) can be done, and lengths will stay the same. Then you can make the box the correct size. For example, you could make the port 16" tall (that would make the box 17.5" tall) and 1.5" wide, and so forth. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 45 Registered: Mar-05 | Thanks Jonathan, do the measurements I posted look right? If not, let me know what needs to change because I want this to be as accurate as possible. Also, is there any advantage to changing the box shape a certain way (ie.- shorter height and longer length vs. the opposite) or is the shape inconsequential as long as the volume remains the same? Thanks |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 46 Registered: Mar-05 | Hey Jonathan, one other question. Should the inside corner of the port, where the length and depth join together, be rounded and smoothed for better air flow or does it matter? Thanks again. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3687 Registered: May-04 | Your box was close, but of course your dimensions will change now that you're adding height. Results I got were like 3.12 or something like that. The optimal box would be the Greek golden ratio, which is 1:1.6. That would mean a length and height of 1:1.6, and then the depth and width would also be 1:1.6. WinISD will calculate this for you. About the port, yes you should smooth out all corners and edges, this will reduce turbulence and prevent port noise. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 47 Registered: Mar-05 | Actually, I'm not sure if I'm going to change the height yet, I just wanted to find out how to change the port if I did increase the height. Also, if I change the height that will actually affect how much internal volume is displaced by the slot port material won't it, since the height will increase but length will stay the same, as you stated? How do I go about getting the WinISD program? It sounds like it would be very helpful. Also, do you have an opinion on my question regarding where to mount the sub on the box? Thanks again for all your help. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 48 Registered: Mar-05 | Oh, I almost forgot. When calculating port length, do I consider the front panel (.75") of the box to be part of the port length or not? Also, what exactly reduces the internal volume from 3.15 gross to a net of 2.5? I know the speaker displaces some volume and also the slot port. Is there anything else? Thanks |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3694 Registered: May-04 | "When calculating port length, do I consider the front panel (.75") of the box to be part of the port length or not?" Yup, it is part of the length. "Also, what exactly reduces the internal volume from 3.15 gross to a net of 2.5? I know the speaker displaces some volume and also the slot port. Is there anything else? Thanks" It's the combination of the port displacement, which included the air inside the port and also the displacement of the port wall, and also the subwoofer displacement itself. That's it, unless you're getting exotic and adding bracing, etc. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 49 Registered: Mar-05 | Do you recommend using any polyfill in the box or not? Also, how do I get a hold of the WinISD program? Thanks. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3696 Registered: May-04 | Nope, don't use polyfill, not needed. WinISD is available here: www.linearteam.org/winisd.html Pro or just the regular ISD will get the job done, Pro is more involved, but also more effective and will show you better results. Answering a previous question, if you were to change the height of the box, it would affect the port crossarea, requiring the length to be changed if you didn't compensate by reducing the width. Simply put, if you stay with a 24 sq in crossarea, your length would be the same, if you made that larger, then both the length and the gross box volume would have to be changed. |
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Blair Unregistered guest | Sorry dont mean to hijack your thread but while we are on this topic... I have 2 idmax's. Im looking at building a 5 cu ft ported box @ 28 hz. I used WinISD pro, and with one 3.5" 21.5" port, it tells me that it has to be 42.5" long?.. just before you stated that Justin's only needed to be around 29"?? what do you think about my box tuning...is it correct? if it isn't what can you suggest jonathan? |
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Blair Unregistered guest | Sorry dont mean to hijack your thread but while we are on this topic... I have 2 idmax's. Im looking at building a 5 cu ft ported box @ 28 hz. I used WinISD pro, and with one 3.5" 21.5" port, it tells me that it has to be 42.5" long?.. just before you stated that Justin's only needed to be around 29"?? what do you think about my box tuning...is it correct? if it isn't what can you suggest jonathan? |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3719 Registered: May-04 | You said 3.5"x21.5"? The larger the port, the longer it will have to be, 3.5x21.5 is a HUGE port area, but that's not a bad thing. And yes, I'm pulling the same length you are for that size and calculation. Remember that the box I recommended above used a 2"x12" port area, which is a 24 sq in port area, while your port area is 75 sq in of area. Your port in the same size box as his would be drastically longer, but the large box helps lower the required length. |
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Gold Member Username: SubfanaticWalton, Ky Post Number: 2379 Registered: Dec-04 | http://www.absoluteusa.com/cat-list.php?id=55&subdesc=REVOLUTION%20SERIES do these look nuts to anyone else, hoiw are they? |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 50 Registered: Mar-05 | Hey Jonathan, I've been messing around with WinISD a bit and wanted to know how I get it to calculate the 1:1.6 ratio as you said it could? Also, I entered all the parameters I found from ID's website, but couldn't find Le, Dd, or Z. What do these values represent, and do you know what they are for the ID Max 12-d4? Also, which SPL value do I use, 88dB or 93.1dB? Thanks buddy. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 51 Registered: Mar-05 | Oh, by the way, I just got my ID Max 12 today and all I can say is man that son of a b*tch looks awesome!!! You can tell a lot of quality went into making it as well, no cheap foreign labor for these subs! |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 52 Registered: Mar-05 | bump |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 53 Registered: Mar-05 | One other thing. Would there be any issues with running a box that is only 13.5 inches tall, as you suggested, regarding installing the sub. That just doesn't leave much room for a 12" sub to be mounted and I don't want to have any problems with the MDF splitting or anything. Would there be any advantage to having a slightly taller box, like 15.5 inches, which would provide a bit more mounting area and more room internally. Not sure if this would make any difference so I just want your opinion. Thanks Jonathan. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 55 Registered: Mar-05 | bump |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 56 Registered: Mar-05 | bump |
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Bronze Member Username: HellbenderWinnetka, California USA Post Number: 20 Registered: Apr-05 | Hey justin, I was just curious to hear what component set you replaced your infinity perfects with? Sorry for the off-topic question. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 58 Registered: Mar-05 | Hey Aaron, I haven't actually replaced them yet. I purchased a set of CDT ES-620's from an individual, but have not received them yet. If something goes awry with that deal, I will probably be looking into either the PG Ti6 Comp Elite, A/D/S 346, or ID CXS64 systems. The main goal is to find a set that is more natural and smooth sounding as opposed to the overly bright sound of the Perfects. |
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Bronze Member Username: HellbenderLos Angeles, California USA Post Number: 23 Registered: Apr-05 | Justin, sounds like you have some nice sets in mind. What do you plan on doing with those infinities once you replace them? Interested in possibly selling them if they're still in good shape? |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3756 Registered: May-04 | "Hey Jonathan, I've been messing around with WinISD a bit and wanted to know how I get it to calculate the 1:1.6 ratio as you said it could? Also, I entered all the parameters I found from ID's website, but couldn't find Le, Dd, or Z. What do these values represent, and do you know what they are for the ID Max 12-d4? Also, which SPL value do I use, 88dB or 93.1dB? Thanks buddy." The box shape(under the box tab) will do it for you. Le is inductance (not really needed, it will effect the high frequency rolloff, which you won't need to calculate an enclosure). Dd is the cone diameter, which is 12" in your case (don't worry, it's not exactly 12", but the Sd will take care of the surface area, which is all that matters). Z is impedance, which is 2 or 8 ohms, depending on how you wire the drivers. I'm not sure what the inductance is to be honest, haven't seen that spec from them. The sensitivity will depend on how you wire the drivers. If you wire in parallel for a 2 ohm load, the sensitivity will be 93.1db, if you wire in series for 8 ohms, it will be 88db. "One other thing. Would there be any issues with running a box that is only 13.5 inches tall, as you suggested, regarding installing the sub. That just doesn't leave much room for a 12" sub to be mounted and I don't want to have any problems with the MDF splitting or anything. Would there be any advantage to having a slightly taller box, like 15.5 inches, which would provide a bit more mounting area and more room internally. Not sure if this would make any difference so I just want your opinion. Thanks Jonathan." Typically the external diameter (frame and everything) is a little under or right at 12". The screws would be further away from the edge of the box than that. Double check and measure the sub, my box was a little bigger than that and I don't remember the exact diameter. A taller box can't hurt, but either way it will give good results. Sorry so long with the post, I'm sure you're excited and ready to get the sub going. Let me know what you think. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 59 Registered: Mar-05 | Aaron, I am going to sell the Perfects once I get a replacement set. I planned on putting them on ebay, but if you are interested I would sell them to you. They are in near new condition, I have only had them for a little over a month and have never abused them. I am a fanatic about keeping my stuff looking nice and these are no exception. I would probably take $150 + actual shipping to your location (using FEDEX 'cause it's the cheapest). Let me know if you're interested and I'll stay in touch. It shouldn't be long before I get the other set. Thanks |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 60 Registered: Mar-05 | Jonathan, now I have one other issue to work out. I have a PG Xenon X200.4 amp that automatically senses what load the sub is at and powers accordingly, delivering the same power regardless of impedance. From the specs I've seen, the amp actually has a tad bit more power at the 8 ohm configuration and the reps at PG told me to stick with 8 ohms because I would get a little less distortion, less current draw, more control, and more efficiency by doing so. If I get the same or a little more power from 8ohm I definitely want to run that since I will probably get a little better SQ and ease the load on the amp, however, if the efficiency goes down from 93.1 to 88dB (as you stated) when running at 8 ohms then I will lose a significant amount of power, indirectly, if I don't run at 2 ohms, won't I? What should I do and why didn't the PG rep mention the efficiency issue? Thanks once again. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3761 Registered: May-04 | It will be just as load assuming equal power. PG is right, stick with an 8 ohm load. The reason that the sensitivity drops with higher impedance is because companies test with a set voltage rating, and a lower impedance driver will pull more current, equaling more power. That's why a 2 ohm load on a power source would have roughly 4x the power of an 8 ohm load, and explains the 5db difference. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3764 Registered: May-04 | typo, it will be just as loud, not just as load. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 61 Registered: Mar-05 | Okay cool! Well, I'm about to have the box built, I just need to decide on exact dimensions. Does the distance from the side wall closest to the sub to the beginning of the slot port have any affect on the sound? In other words, does the distance the slot port extends along the back wall relative to the subwoofer play any role? Should you try to make sure the slot port doesn't extend past the mid point of the sub diameter or anything? I'm sorry if this question isn't very clear. Let me know if you still have no idea what I'm talking about. Thanks Jon. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 64 Registered: Mar-05 | bump |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 65 Registered: Mar-05 | bump |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3776 Registered: May-04 | Just leave some clearance from the back of the sub to the slot, and don't fire the rear of the sub directly into the slot opening (port right behind the sub). A good inch or more clearance will be fine. Locate the slot on the front of the box where the sub is preferably. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 67 Registered: Mar-05 | bump |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 70 Registered: Mar-05 | Hey Jon, when you say don't fire the rear of the sub directly into the slot opening, do you mean the opening to the outside of the box? I am going to design a standard looking box with the sub on one side and the slot port on the other (both on front of box), but the slot port does extend about 15 inches along the back wall which puts it about 9.25 inches away from the side wall next to the sub, and basically right behind the sub. The box is about 15 inches deep internally so there should be plenty of clearance behind the sub. Is that going to be okay? Sorry I kind of got lost on your last comment. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 71 Registered: Mar-05 | bump |
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weezie Unregistered guest | i have a rockford 6001 and 2 alum12q in a sealed box. what should i do make it sound the loudest it can. i listen to rap. should i try and make a better smaller sealed box or just buy one ported, or what. how big should the box be. just trying to find out some info. appreciate the help |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 73 Registered: Mar-05 | Hey Weezie, do me a favor and post your question on a new thread. Thanks |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3789 Registered: May-04 | Sorry so long. Your box design sounds fine as it is. As long as the sub isn't directly in front of the slot opening, you'll be ok. By that, I mean keep the sub a couple of inches from the slot's internal opening. You've already said that you have plenty of distance behind the sub, so you're good to go. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 76 Registered: Mar-05 | Whoa, so would I be better off mounting the sub more towards the middle of the box, since the slot port would basically start about 2-3 inches to the side of the center line of the sub (sub diameter of 12" and slot port extends to within 9" of side wall)? Would this be considered directly in front of the internal slot opening? If so, I can move the sub over towards the middle of the box say 6 or more inches. What do you think? Are there any diagrams that would show ideal location relative to the slot port? Thanks |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 77 Registered: Mar-05 | Hey Jon, I just looked at your last post again. Were you saying that because the sub has 4-5 inches of space behind it before the slot port starts, then everything is okay and I don't need to worry about where I mount the sub on the front panel? Thanks |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 79 Registered: Mar-05 | bump |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3790 Registered: May-04 | "Were you saying that because the sub has 4-5 inches of space behind it before the slot port starts, then everything is okay and I don't need to worry about where I mount the sub on the front panel?" Yep. If you have 4-5 inches of space before the slot port opening starts, you're fine. |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 80 Registered: Mar-05 | Great! Well thanks so much for all your help. I'm going to have the box built within the next week or so and I'll be sure to let you know how it turns out. It's been a pleasure learning from you. |
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Unregistered guest | I have a rockford 6001 amp and 2 alum12q (new) in a sealed box. what should i do to make it sound the loudest it can. i listen to rap. should i try and make a better smaller sealed box or just buy one ported, or what. how big should the box be. just trying to find out some info. appreciate the help |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 1670 Registered: Jun-04 | weezie that would depend on a few things like what size box is it in now what is you best hit frequencies what is the vas fs qts and what ohm sub are they....the more you give me the more i can help you out ps.....please dont cross post...make your own thread |
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Bronze Member Username: JbaileyIndianapolis, Indiana Post Number: 82 Registered: Mar-05 | Thank you for the p.s. Sean! |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 1673 Registered: Jun-04 | yw |
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weezie Unregistered guest | sean i just wanna know how i need to hook everything up to make it sound the loudest, wiring of subs and everything. i have them in a sealed box right forget the size. i have a 99 buick century custom. thanx |
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