Is NAD 372 worth stretching my budget....
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New member Username: PalPune, Maharashtra India Post Number: 6 Registered: Apr-04 | hi i am buying B&W 602 S3, and to drive them, i was cosidering between NAD 320 BEE and NAD 372. Now there is this big difference between the price of the two, and after the CD player, the cassette deck and the cables, my budget is slightly tight....here in India, its never too easy to upgrade, and this is a one time investment i am making after years of savings !! Now if i stretch i could possibly go in for the 372, but what i'd like to know from u guys is that is the 372 worth stretching my budget, or is 320BEE a good buy....pls could someone help me on this..... |
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New member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 9 Registered: Mar-04 | Always go with more power... Another member(sun king) says that the 372 is a bit lacking in bass... I cannot comment on that though he is the first to mention it... The 372 is the newest model (2004) and has more flexibility than the bee (bridgeable, 2 sets of speaker posts)... But I will not take mr sun king comments lightly which is why I seldom buy a product until it's been out for awhile so as any bugs can be identified... That being said I hold firm with my initial recommendation, 372... |
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Bronze Member Username: Sun_kingLeeds, West Yorkshire UK Post Number: 36 Registered: Mar-04 | Hi there, I heard my name mentioned....so thought I'd show you guys a professional review of the new C372. The reviewer states that "maybe the bass could muscle up a bit more" - well I like my music avec bass so for me that's a real weak point. The C370 had no such problems, tons of bass. I'd hunt-down the nicest used C370 you can find. Failing that, look elsewhere 'cos the C372 just doesn't cut it in my opinion. http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2004/nad_372.shtml |
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Unregistered guest | Sun King Can you find a review like that for the C352? Is the entire C model of integrated amps lacking in bass? |
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Bronze Member Username: Sun_kingLeeds, West Yorkshire UK Post Number: 37 Registered: Mar-04 | Thasp, Can't find any reviews on the C352 I'm afraid! I don't want to sound like I'm slating Nad because I'm a huge fan of their products. I'm just dismayed that the new line of integrated amplifiers has seen the company ditch their trademark sound. I'd say the C370 is definitely better than the C372. Why? Well it sounds better for a start! Need me to go on? As for the C352, it's a good amp. It doesn't have the bass power of the C370 (it's a power thing) but then neither did the old C350 (also a good amp) - it's just not as exciting as it should be for the money in my humble opinion. I'd favour the older line or ditch Nad for a while and look elsewhere until they bring out some new amps! Don't just take my word for it though, as always I recommend that anybody makes their own mind-up by way of a listening test. One man's meat is another man's poison. |
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Bronze Member Username: Sun_kingLeeds, West Yorkshire UK Post Number: 38 Registered: Mar-04 | The Nad C320BEE gets consistently good reviews and I've listened to the Marantz PM7200 through B&W speakers. That also gets the thumbs-up from me. They are two good budget amplifiers if you're buying new. I would unreservedly recommend the Nad C370 though if you can manage to find one. I just love the sound that amp produces. |
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Bronze Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 12 Registered: Mar-04 | Hey, nads website has a review for the c352 with the circuit changes.... check it out... |
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Bronze Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 13 Registered: Mar-04 | Hey, nads website has a review for the c352 with the circuit changes.... check it out... |
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Bronze Member Username: Sun_kingLeeds, West Yorkshire UK Post Number: 40 Registered: Mar-04 | Yep, http://www.nadelectronics.com/reviews/C352-0404_framset.htm |
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New member Username: PalPune, Maharashtra India Post Number: 7 Registered: Apr-04 | hey guys....thanks for all those suggestions. but will tell u the kind of problems i am facing. here in India, the only distributer says they don't import the 352, so that is out of question. and the 370 also, i cannot find, even a used one !! so i am left between the 320BEE and the 372.....and to give u an idea in Indian currency the 320BEE is 20,000INR and 372 is 48,000INR (INR:Indian Rupees). So its a big difference as u can c, i mean more than the double of what i am getting 320..... and that is why i want to be sure, if i shd put in so much of money...... |
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Bronze Member Username: Sun_kingLeeds, West Yorkshire UK Post Number: 42 Registered: Mar-04 | Manish, In my opinion the C372 isn't more than twice as good as the C320BEE. I'd save some money and put it towards a better cd player. The C320BEE is a good amp and you'll not find any better at that price point. Plus you know I'm not a fan of the C372..... |
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Bronze Member Username: BilldashillPost Number: 75 Registered: Dec-03 | NAD just made patches to the C352 what about the C372? NAD keeps fumbling the ball. I mean didn't NAD R&D notice the problems with the C352 during first run prototypes? Someone high up continues to be asleep at NAD. I wouldn't buy one of these patched up C352's thats for sure. |
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Bronze Member Username: Sun_kingLeeds, West Yorkshire UK Post Number: 46 Registered: Mar-04 | No, it doesn't seem to be the basis for a thoroughbred amp. I've no idea WHY but the C352 and C372 seem to have been rushed and aren't very good. Rather than just changing their predecessors for the sake of it, they should have ensured they were better. It's extremely bad business to make them worse. |
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Unregistered guest | I have a NAD 314 amp and just bought a new C542 cd player. I would like a larger amp and the dealer is pushing the 372 but there seems to be some negativity about that amp. Any suggestions within the NAD family? I am not unhappy with the 314, but now that I have better sound with the new 542 (the 540 had button and other problems) I thought more power would give me great sound. Thanks |
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Bronze Member Username: PalPune, Maharashtra India Post Number: 24 Registered: Apr-04 | Jack Although i am not the right person to give you any advice. But let me share my own personal experience with you. As you can c, i started this thread, cos i was worried if 320 would be underpowered for driving B&W 602s. But then upon many advice of many wise people !! around here, i went in for 320bee only, and its excellent. its rightly said, that NAD is always underrated. but yes, to a certain degree, your requirements may vary with the kind of speakers u want to drive and your room size. but unless u have a really big room, i think 320BEE is an excellent piece of equipment !! |
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bojh Unregistered guest | I have an NAD 372 partnered with B&W 602S3's. My dealer loaned me a 372, 370, 352 and 320BEE while I was making my decision and I can assure you the 372 is a clear winner in this comparison. I find it difficult to beleive anyone can listen to the 370 and 372 on identical speakers (I also auditioned on DynAudio's and Energy Speakers) and not find the 372 a huge improvement. Let's not forget the article referred to by Sun King is hugely positive, the bass comments being a throw away seeking for a minor negative. I have the 372 and 602s3's in combination with an ancient Yamaha CD player (used as a transport) and a Benchmark DAC-1 and the Bass reproduction is simply amazing. Several of my friends with systems costing many times as much confess they cannot match the sound of this combo. Go for the 372! (and import a Benchmark DAC-1... The most amzing piece of Hi-Fi gear I have ever come across). |
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New member Username: AmirPost Number: 1 Registered: Jul-04 | what is the differences between nad c372 and yamaha ax 596? Does anybody who already heard those 2 models can tell me which of the 2 models are sound better and producing better dynamic and accurate sound ? and which of them have the ability to play more with the bass button , i meen that the bass button can be more potent? if someone have answers to my qustions , i will very appreciate this . thank you in advance , Amir. |
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Silver Member Username: Sun_kingLeeds, West Yorkshire UK Post Number: 148 Registered: Mar-04 | I've just demoed the C162 and C272 and bought them on the spot. A definite improvement over the C370. I thought the C372 poor in the bass department but maybe I had a duff unit. The C272 power amp is superb with lots of deep bass. |
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asal73 Unregistered guest | The Yamaha AX596 is awful and hopelessly outclassed by the NAD. The Yamaha AX596 is one of the worst amplifiers I have ever heard in my life. I must say I agree with this review.. actually I think they were being generous... http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_print.asp?ID=1506 |
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New member Username: AmirPost Number: 2 Registered: Jul-04 | I have never heard the sound of yamaha - ax 596. but what i can tell is the next thing: before several days i bought the NAD c370 and i was testing it with my jbl s36 loud speakers and it was sound preaty nice but the bass was week. BUT the thing that surprised me is that in the next day suddenly was a better bass sound and i heard LESS accurate sound. In the next day i return beck this product to the store and my money was return to me. NOW , my qustion to you people is, this thing that happen to me it is a rerular thing? and if i will buy nad c372 , it can be the posible that still will be such problems? |
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asal73 Unregistered guest | I hated my NAD C370 for 1 week.. started off with weak bass... then poor imaging and accuracy.. then after a week it just came into focus... some people don't believe in burn-in.. but my C370 burnt in.. it progressed from loads of sonic faults to few sonic faults... there's a fair bit of bass there... I think the volume knob is pretty linear so you don't really get a taste of the amp until you are at 9oclock on the volume knob... Perhaps it didn't suit your speakers or your tastes... How expensive are these things in India? |
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New member Username: AmirPost Number: 3 Registered: Jul-04 | hi ASAL73 i am from Israel . AND THE NAD C370 COST 663$ , is it consider to expensive price? |
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kenrick Unregistered guest | Hi everyone, I lent my speakers, the logitech z-340, to a friend and he blew the sub while blasting music. The thing is I have a mtx 70w, 4 ohm sub at home so I went ahead and cracked the sub's casing and replaced the 25w 4 ohm speaker. Now the problem is the in built amp only sent about 25w of power to the sub so i know that the new speaker, which is now playing even lower bass, louder bass is not performing anywhere close to its true potential. So what i would like to do is to get help with increasing the total power to the sub by changing or removing a resistor on the amp that is built in the sub. |
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New member Username: AmirPost Number: 4 Registered: Jul-04 | I very want to buy NAD C372 , but i afraid that it will be sound awful like nad c 370 that i already returned to the store!!! Anybody have the nad c372 and heard the yamaha ax596 , and can tell me that nad better than yamaha or yamaha more believable than nad? |
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asal73 Unregistered guest | I have heard the AX596 hundreds of times.. my friend has one. It is awful. If you think the C370 had weak bass, the Yamaha is much much worse. The Yamaha doesn't do bass. Try the C370 again or C372, but try for longer this time.. leave it on repeat and give it 50 hours before making a judgment.. what amp were you using before? I have just realised that the jbl s36 is a tiny speaker.. there isn't any amp in the world that will get much bass from those speakers.. I think you should buy that C370 back and buy some decent sized speakers like B+W 601/602/603 or Mission M73/74/51/52/53 You going to feed it Infected Mushrooms? |
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New member Username: AmirPost Number: 5 Registered: Jul-04 | to asal73: i dont had an emp before! i am looking for my first amp , and i considering 2 models : YAMAHA AX 596 OR NAD 372 the difference in price between them is 206$ what are you saying? |
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asal73 Unregistered guest | I think your speakers are too small. That's what I am saying. AX596 is vastly inferior to NAD C370 and C372. |
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New member Username: AmirPost Number: 6 Registered: Jul-04 | Asal, how long do you have the NAD c370? i asking you this qustion because 2 dealers were told me that they arn't keeping nad's product anymore , because the NAD's products have broken to fast (that what they told me). did you hear about this kind of complaint? does the customer complains about defect in manufacture ? |
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asal73 Unregistered guest | I have had my NAD C370 for 3 weeks. I also have 2 Arcam amps. I have also heard that some NAD's suffer reliability problems, but this may be because they are very popular and so there is just more of them.. I don't know.. they are UK designed and Chinese manufactured so perhaps there are some quality issues.. I talked to some dealers before buying and they said that there had been some issues with CD players mainly NOT amps.. Our big hi-fi supermarkets continue to stock NAD, so reliability cannot be that much of an issue... How hot is it in Israel? Do you all have air-conditioning? What brands do your hi-fi shops recommend and stock? |
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New member Username: AmirPost Number: 7 Registered: Jul-04 | hi asal in israel most of the stores doesnt ofering nad because the problem that i mention , and they also dont have in stoke nad products. only the importer has nad's product beside this they are ofering the yamaha ax 596.... and i dont know what to do . how much it cost today in England - nad c372 and yamaha ax 596? - sory that i turning buck all the time into the same subject...... ha and take a look into this: http://www.audioreview.com/PRD_125321_2717crx.aspx |
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asal73 Unregistered guest | Those reviews are worthless. Everyone always rates their own kit highly. If you own something you don't want to think that you own something bad. Do you really trust those reviews? I wouldn't. If you think the Yamaha is going to be better than the NAD you are crazy. Over here the C370 and C372 sell around the £400 mark or less. The Yamaha AX596 sells for about £200 or less. The Yamaha is crap. |
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New member Username: AmirPost Number: 8 Registered: Jul-04 | hi ASAL I want to ask you 2 things: 1 do you have a MSN massenger, if you have, can you give your email that we can talk more easly? 2 why did you decided when you bought the amp to buy the c370 and not the c372? |
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asal73 Unregistered guest | I don't have MSN messenger.. I bought the C370 cos it was £90 cheaper than the C372.. £310 for the C370 compared to £400 for the C372.. You need some bigger speakers. Do they sell B&W in Israel? B&W are great speakers.. |
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New member Username: AmirPost Number: 9 Registered: Jul-04 | in Israel i can buy b&w speakers but they are very expensive !! but i already bought the jbl s36 (my ancle is a comuter engineer and he flew to NEW work before 2 weeks and bought for me thoese speakers) and they sound ok.......in my salon lie a JVC reciever (rx-220L) and when i bought the c370 i compaird it to my reciever (with the some speakers jbl s36), and with my old reciever i heard thwe music better than the nad!! before you buy the nad c370 you compared it to 370? |
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New member Username: AmirPost Number: 10 Registered: Jul-04 | if you heard the sound of the 2 amp c370 and 372, can you tell me which of them have a better bass and accurate sound (better dynamic)? |
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Bronze Member Username: AmirPost Number: 11 Registered: Jul-04 | Asal i have an important qustion that if you will answare on it mabey i will anderstand why my nad amp was sound so terrible: in the carton on yours nad c370 what is the year of the trade mark that writen there? |
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Silver Member Username: Sun_kingLeeds, West Yorkshire UK Post Number: 150 Registered: Mar-04 | The C370 has better deep bass (at medium to high volumes) but the C372 sounds better across the board - it has a better, fuller midrange and possibly slightly better bass at low volumes. |
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Bronze Member Username: AmirPost Number: 12 Registered: Jul-04 | Asal where are you ? i am waiting to your answer about the trade mark....... please when you will see this qustion answer me, because i am looking forward to buy again the nad c370 or 372!........ |
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Bronze Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 38 Registered: Mar-04 | Hey sun king, you bought the c272 c162 combo huh.....  , great, and you feel it is a significant improvement upon your c370???? Are you having any issues with the signal sense circuit????? I spoke with someone at nad and they say they are working to fix the issue (more sensitve circuit).... I don't know about you but I just love the way nad looks, very utilitarian and industrial. |
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Silver Member Username: Sun_kingLeeds, West Yorkshire UK Post Number: 154 Registered: Mar-04 | I don't bother with that sensing circuit, I just switch the thing on when I need to use it. You can turn the sense function off and even if it worked perfectly (I haven't tried it) I doubt I would use it. When I wander over to my rack to switch the cdp and pre-amp on it takes no more effort to also switch the power amp on. The sound is excellent, much better than the C370 and better than the C372. More detail, better bass. I also got some new speakers - Kef Q7 and I'm really enjoying my hifi now! |
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Bronze Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 39 Registered: Mar-04 | Understood sun king, but as you are well aware you can bypass the wandering over to your rack part with the sense circuit and just power up from your easy chair... Checked out those kef q7 speakers, where is the tweeter located??? Do you have one or two pairs hooked up to the power amp?... I just purchased a brickwall surge supressor and line filter, so i'm one piece closer to the pre/power combo... Good to hear you are pleased with the performace as I value your opinion... |
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New member Username: DanmanPost Number: 4 Registered: Apr-04 | Sun King, I have been reading a lot of posts from you concerning the 372 and am a little confused! I purchased one after many trial and error listening tests with my speakers (Axiom M60 and M3's) I did not notice any of the problems you have mentioned concerning the lack of bass. I also tried the 272 and 162 combo and was very tempted more because of the look of having extra bulk equipment in my rack BUT there was NO difference in sound even after side by side tests! NAD emailed me and said there is NO difference in power amp configuration. The pre-amp is of SLIGHT better quality but does not influence sound in any great detail, especially bass. My dealer has also been selling NAD for the past 20 years and confirmed this to me as well. He sells everything from NAD to Krell and is very in touch. He told me that the only problem was the 352 and that he never even noticed a difference after trying both the first models and the revamped ones. I am not underestimating your opinion in any way but I know how picky my ears are and I am not sure what you experieced only that the 372 is very hard to beat (let alone all NAD products) and I have tried so many over the last 12 months it would scare you! Maybe your new speakers have something to do with the difference in sound. Did you try them with the 372........ NAD 372 NAD 542 AXIOM M60 AXIOM M3 HSU VTF 2 mk (NOT USED DURING LISTENING TESTS FOR MUSIC) |
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Silver Member Username: Sun_kingLeeds, West Yorkshire UK Post Number: 159 Registered: Mar-04 | Danman, I did say that the difference between the C162&C272 combo is subtle over the C372. The bass IS a little better and there is more detail. This is purely to do with the fact the pre-amp is of a higher quality than the one bolted into the integrated amps. The power section is exactly the same but another area where the two separate units improve on the integrated is that they have separate power supplies. Each unit is doing only what it needs to do and isn't being compromised by another sub-system. The C372 integrated is brilliant but the two separates are better. It isn't a huge difference and it's up to you whether shelling-out almost double the price is worth it. This hifi game is all about upgrades and separate pre & power units are an upgrade, however slight. Most Nad integrateds have superb power sections, it's the pre-amp where the cost cutting is made in order to make the units good value. Now the C160/162 isn't the last word in pre-amps by any means but it's an improvement on the integrated units. Testing equipment at a dealer's for a few minutes isn't the same as having the equipment in your home to listen to for a whole evening. Differences in sound can be very slight, the odd better bassline here, the bit of guitar you never heard on a certain cd before etc. Nothing hits you straight between the eyes, after all - Nad kit has a distinct sound - it isn't like swapping brands to compare. There are slight differences but these are for the better. I'm happy with the improvement over the C372 - however slight. Borrow a C160/C162 Nad pre-amp if you can and send it through your C372 power section and tell me you can't tell the difference! That's the way I truly heard it. |
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Silver Member Username: Sun_kingLeeds, West Yorkshire UK Post Number: 160 Registered: Mar-04 | Unbridled, The tweeter unit is actually in the middle of the mid-driver - it's the silver button inside! This is part of Kef's Uni-Q design. Read up on it, quite interesting why they chose to put it there. I just have the one pair of speakers hooked-up to my C272. As for the sense circuit thing again, I prefer to switch all my hifi kit off properly when I've done and not leave it on stand-by. I don't see the point in having additional wear on the little power led/transformer and it's no trouble at all to walk over to the units to power them-up. That's just me! |
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Silver Member Username: Sun_kingLeeds, West Yorkshire UK Post Number: 161 Registered: Mar-04 | Danman, I forgot to add, you need to use a very good quality interconnect between the pre & power amps or their benefits over the integrated will be lost! The small connector between the pre & power units on the integrated is so small that relatively little is lost between them but if you join the separates with a 1m cable that's not very dynamic.....I tried a regular interconnect that I use for my sources (a good one) and it didn't sound that great but when I tried a QED silver spiral (which incidentally sounds too bright when used on a source) the results were stunning. |
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Bronze Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 40 Registered: Mar-04 | I can relate to the wear on the little leds.... It's those little details which influence me as well... As far as the pre-amp goes I have searched pre amps and there are some in the c162's price range (adcom gtp-715, rotel 1070, maybe even a bottlehead tube pre) but I doubt they have much of anything on it. Have you tried nad's silver series at all? I have heard it hasn't sold well and nad seems to be phasing out some of the silver line in the states... So on your speakers the tweeter is behind the midrage woofer.....have not seen that before....interesting indeed.. |
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New member Username: DanmanPost Number: 6 Registered: Apr-04 | Sun King, I know about the interconnect between the pre-amp and the main. I have one worth 80$ that replaced the jumpers on my 372. I did notice a difference but nothing dramatic. I did have both units at my house for a week-end before buying the 372 and I tried very hard to notice a difference but could not find one. My dealer told me that both will sound the same only the 272-162 combo will allow much more flexability for future growth.Not sure how the power supply will effect overall sound. By the way, I am one of those that has tried silver to cheap 12 gauge copper wire and never noticed any major difference only treble clearness. I don't buy into the hype of spending major money to get a fraction of a difference that is only noticable to those that have perfect ears such as a new born! HOWEVER........I am looking into buying a 272 to bi-amp as I have heard a difference there when I did this before buying. It is a little tricky to set up right but when you get it.......it sounds much more linear than before. |
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Silver Member Username: Sun_kingLeeds, West Yorkshire UK Post Number: 162 Registered: Mar-04 | Danman, Fair enough, you didn't notice any difference so if I'd have been you I'd have saved some money and got the integrated too! The C160 is a better pre-amp than the one in any of their classic series integrated amps, you said so yourself. Therefore the pairing of the two separates is going to sound better, however slight. I'm a musician and I have perfect hearing - I can tell small differences between amps etc. I'm not saying you can't but I'm happy there's an improvement over the C372 although I'll admit that it's not a huge one. Don't forget I owned the C372 as well. |
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Bronze Member Username: AmirPost Number: 15 Registered: Jul-04 | SUN KING, PLEASE can you tell me what is the diffrancess between NAD c372 and NAD c352(that was produce in 2003 , i think it is called CT version) ? If you have ever heard this amp - nad c352CT, and you actually have at home the NAD c372 so you sould know something about this amp. thank you , Amir |
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Silver Member Username: Sun_kingLeeds, West Yorkshire UK Post Number: 164 Registered: Mar-04 | Hi Amir, The difference between the two is the power. If you start with the lowest amplifier in the range, the C320BEE - the C352 sounds the same tonally but has a fuller sound with better bass control. The C372 takes this further. It has a fuller, thicker sound with more detail in the midrange but the main difference is in the lower frequencies - the bass is a lot more extended and noticeable. Don't worry about the "CT" designation, this just refers to "colour titanium" - it is the silver finish. The C352 had some of the bass circuitry altered soon after release and the new model has been in circulation for several months now. It does not have a different name, the CT is only added to the model number if you order it in silver and not the traditional Nad dark grey. What rating are your speakers? The C372 may be too powerful for them but generally speaking, the more power the better so long as you don't have really puny speakers. |
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Bronze Member Username: AmirPost Number: 16 Registered: Jul-04 | Hi Sun king, I have the JBL s36 loudspeakers and they produce sound around 100 watt RMS. If you are looking at ww.audioreview.com you can see a good rating , but people say that this speakers are designed for surround system ... But i heard this speaker and i can tell you that they have the potential to preduce perfect bass (if you have a good amp) but there disadvantage is that they doesn't dynamic like b&w or another floorstanding , loudspeakers , but they sound pretty well .... - my ancle bought for me this loudspeakers in 300$ in NEWYORK in the USA in b&h store. you can take a look at their web site - http://www.bhphotovideo.com/ Tell me what are you thinking on this loudspeaker? I have another point to discuss/view with you, tomorrow i will go to the store for hearing another amp - Yamaha ax 596 and i conecting my jbl loudspeakers into this amp (i bring with me my JBL s36). Tell me please, what can i expect from this Yamaha amp ax 596? |
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Silver Member Username: Sun_kingLeeds, West Yorkshire UK Post Number: 165 Registered: Mar-04 | From the Yamaha you will get an average, consumer-friendly sound. Nothing special. It won't sound BAD, just nowhere near as nice as the Nad gear. As for your speakers, they are really surround sound rears and as such they're not the best for stereo. They have weak bass but that's because they were designed to be run with a sub and stronger front speakers. If money is an issue (isn't it always) and you have to keep them then so be it but I'd recommend buying a decent stereo pair. Buy secondhand off ebay or somewhere to get you going if you can't afford the amp and speakers at the same time. Speakers are a safe bet used. I think through your JBL's you aren't going to get anywhere near the sound a decent Nad amp produces and to be fair you won't even be able to hear all the Yamaha offers. I'd buy a Nad amp and get some used speakers. You can keep your JBL's for a dedicated av set-up later. |
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New member Username: Walt_hTustin, CA USA Post Number: 7 Registered: Jun-04 | Hi Sun King, I am still looking for an amp for my Acoustic Energy AE1 MkIII Reference speakers. Found a local dealer that sells a lot of NAD, so he has the C162/C272 combination in stock. He described(over the phone) that this combination will sound very even over the whole freq spectrum. Confirmed what you said that the preamp in the C162 is bettter than the preamp in the C372. Suggested i drive my powered subwoofer with the high-level speaker output rather than using the C162's low-level preamp output. His rationale was the the sound from the high-level speaker output into my sub would better match the tonal characteristics [of the signal going into my speakers(AE1's)] than the preamp output into the sub. "the amp changes the sound very slightly[different from the preamp's output]". Does that jibe with your own view of the matter? He says the NAD separates will make a huge improvement over my HK AVR225 in stereo mode. Hope he's right! Any thoughts appreciated. |
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New member Username: DanmanPost Number: 8 Registered: Apr-04 | Walter.no doubt that you will have a HUGE improvement over your HK unit not to say it is not good only NAD is much better in anything near or close to the price range. As for the 162 making a big difference over the 372, I would say no but not to cause a war there may be some difference but it may be more physical than real as we sometimes tend to think that it is better because of the subbtle differences. As I mentioned before, when I used both units at home, I noticed a slight difference but so little that it did not merit my buying them for that reason however, I do want to get a seperate 272 for by-amping as I did notice something more their to my liking. I almost bought the combo because I was thinking more on terms of future expansion but my dealer trades my amps every 2 years and gives me a great price so I will wait and see future models. I would not suggest hooking up your sub through speaker outputs as this is not the most recommended method for HSU (however you may not own that) Use the amp that is with the sub, that is what it was developed for. I questioned this for years with my dealer and he said that we should always use everything BUT the speaker outputs for modern subs. They are there as a last resort for those that don't have the option of hooking up a sub through either sub outputs or pre-amp outputs...........however it is your call. Don't forget, your sub does not have have any REAL tonal characteristics so there will be no improvement other than extra load on your amp that could be used for other speakers which is what I have done. I have AXIOM M60's on the "A" channel and AXIOM M3's on the "B" channel. This puts the amp in a different load that NAD's seem to like and gives me high wattage and clean sound. My HSU is hooked up to the variable pre-amp output and the sound is amazing. I did try your speakers and with this system, you will very much enjoy.........Remember the audio bibles main theory.......ALWAYS do a listening test for your own ears, what I am telling you is only my opinion therefore only counts a little. No doubt, if you can afford it, go for either the 372 or the combo......you will not regret. |
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New member Username: Walt_hTustin, CA USA Post Number: 8 Registered: Jun-04 | Danman. Thanks for your thoughtful comments. I am glad that you have tried my speakers before-so you have an idea of their character. Yeah-even NHT[mfg of my subwoofer] says preferred method is the low-level inputs. So, I will go that way. My remaining concerning point is that my HK has a 24bit/192kHz DAC and I am taking the digital signal directly from my HK CD player into the coax digital input on my HK receiver. I am wondering if I will lose a ton of detail by going into the NAD with the analog outputs of the CD player??? My CD player is HK FL8300 from 1998-so its technology is somewhat behind the curve. Of course I will probably weaken when the dealer tries to sell me a new NAD CDP!! Since you have heard my speakers, how would you characterize them? - bright, neutral, dark? To my ear, they seem somewhat towards the cool and more neutral side of things (compared to other's I have had). They reveal lots and lots of low-level detail and produce a lot of bass for such a small driver! (4"). My preference is for the more nearfield sound having been a performing musician for much of my life(symphony/jazz). I am used to hearing all the gory ugly detail - guys missing notes, playing with horrible sounding instruments! you name it.....When you are amidst and among the performing group, it ISN'T very smooth - frankly a bit harsh. It all gets blended by the time it gets to the audience. I am speaking only of acoustical music performances. The electronic stuff of popular music is another story entirely as it is-itself-mostly synthetic music that is heard from speakers rather than the sound of the instuments themselves. I hope that I will find the NAD stuff satisfactory - the price is right as you said. I have budgeted somewhat more, but don't want to spend more if NAD gets me 95% there. The olde diminishing returns thing! Thanks again for your comments....anybody else have a comment on this??? |
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Bronze Member Username: DanmanPost Number: 15 Registered: Apr-04 | I cannot answer your coment about the 24bit thing as I am not into that type of equipment as of yet so I have no experience. Maybe SunKing can answer you there. Your CD player should do fine for now. Use it if you can for your listening tests.....any good dealer will understand that. HK equpiment is by no means crap! Your speakers in my opinion were wonderful for their size! I was very impressed. It may be that since you plan on buying such a big system, that you may want to later upgrade to a floor model that can really benefit your choice system a little more but keep them for the "B" channel as a second set and you will enjoy even more the full dynamics that your little (by comaparison) speakers give. As I mentioned in a response to another post to you about KRELL.........this may be an alternative but you will have to shell out more money and really you will not be 95% there with NAD more like 98%! The difference is not THAT huge and like I said........trust your ears first! You being a musician probably have even more demands than I do knowing what an instrument should sound like to you. Go try this equipment and enjoy the experience and let us know what YOU think!.......that is what counts! |
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Bronze Member Username: Walt_hTustin, CA USA Post Number: 11 Registered: Jun-04 | Danman - - The Krell KAV400xi about double the price of the NAD C162/C272! For, in your opinion, not THAT that big a diff........maybe I should make the practical decision huh? Another I've listened to is B & K 200.2. Heard it with Sonus Faber Grand Piano speakers - - sounded good. That combination (with the B & K PT5 Preamp) costs $2200......$900 more than NAD C162.C272. b I am concerned though about reliability of that comparatively little know amp. |
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Bronze Member Username: DanmanPost Number: 18 Registered: Apr-04 | I can't say it enough........go try them all and trust your ears!!!!! You seem to be looking at great quality items so either one should be very reliable BUT you never know.......it is electronics and even the best can break! I am not knowledgable with the equipment you mentioned in the last post so I cannot comment. |
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Bronze Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 41 Registered: Mar-04 | Hey danman have you tried any of the nad silver series 2 channel equipment. I am in particular interested in the s 100 pre-amp??? |
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Bronze Member Username: DanmanPost Number: 21 Registered: Apr-04 | Sorry, I have not had the opportunity however, I have heard it is of very high quality. Seems as though NAD is kind of fading it out though. They probably have some new products coming out in the near future to replace it. I have heard rumours they are going to enter the high level equipment race to compete against KRELL and the likes but that is only what I have heard. |
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Nikz Unregistered guest | Hi Sorry i heard the NAD and was very very disappointed, personlally i prefere the Denon F101 |
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Bronze Member Username: DanmanPost Number: 36 Registered: Apr-04 | I don't like Denon so I guess that makes us even! I am not into Japanese Audio equipment however, I own Honda! Some people like the sound of Japanese audio because it is mostly boosted and not neutral. Everyone has their preference. |
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Bronze Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 42 Registered: Mar-04 | I own a denon dra-685, to my ears it sounds thin and bright..... |
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New member Username: SplPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-04 | Can someone help me with a similar predicament? I have a home theater that I also use for music. (50/50) I have front, rear, and center Dynaudio Audience 42s (4 ohm) being driven by a Marantz SR7200 receiver. I'm quite happy with the setup but I feel it lacks the punch and clarity that I hear from other systems while listening to music. I would like to get a NAD C272 amp and connect the front left and right pre-outs to it. Is this a good decision? Or should I just sell my Marantz SR7200 and get a NAD T-763 receiver? Please help, I can't demo the setup and our stores don't have a return or swap policy. |
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Bronze Member Username: AmirPost Number: 19 Registered: Jul-04 | Hello to everyone. if i will buy the NAD c352, can i connect to this a sub wofeer ? in c372 i know that i can connect a sub woofer into the speaker B connections , but in c352 there isn't such connections! my loud speaker is designed to work with sub woofer, i have JBL S36, and i know that c372 is able to producing a lot of bass , and maybe, if i will buy the c372, so i will have enough bass without the sub woofer!? |
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MrFinland Unregistered guest | Amir - You can connect Sub to C352... ......With the second Preout 2 facility an extra power amplifier, such as NAD's C272, which has identical amplification factor (gain) as the C352's power amp section - is easily connected. This output can also be used to connect a powered subwoofer, an increasingly popular option ....... |
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Unregistered guest | Hello Everyone; I'm new to this forum, and I'll try and make this short as I'm sure your topics are a lot more complicated than this question. I'm looking at buying a new A/V system, and I'm trying to keep everything below $10,000(don't laugh, some of us have budgets). Breakdown of use would be 50/50 music/movies. Music is everything from classical to jazz and blues. I have considered NAD, Denon, Polk, KEF, and even Klipsch to keep the price right. I'm also open to other product brands that are better in quality or use. Any ideas on some combinations for 1)Amp 2)Receiver THX?? 3)Speakers 5-6.1 for home theater 4)Extra gear or components that are real make it worth while 5)And finaly, cables. I'm sure there is a million ways to design this system, but maybe I can draw from your experiences on what works well together. I appreicate any and all help you could give me. Thanks. |
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Bronze Member Username: Ca_convertCardiffUK Post Number: 19 Registered: Jan-05 | This puzzles me..why on earth do you want to ruin the sound with a damn great lumbering subwoofer??? A half decent pair of floorstanders, indeed even standmounters will go low enough. I cant imagine why anyone would want to buy a C352 amp and connect a subwoofer unless your a disco freak, then youd be better off buying a PA system and feel the "noise" |
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New member Username: CanuckinapickleTorontoCanada Post Number: 2 Registered: Jan-05 | Dear Manish Pal, I've had a C370, which is essentially the slightly older model of the C372, for about 2 years now. It's a lovely machine and dispite what people say on this board it is fantastic at amplifying all frequencies -- including a nice tight bass. I'm powering two Energy C-5s with it and it's great. I've switched to surround recently and am now only using the power amp section (via Main Ins) to drive the left and right speakers and my NAD T753 is now my preamp. In other words, because it has a powerful amp section you can't go wrong -- you can always use it as a standalone amplifier in the future if you go to surround or even if you don't they're easy to bridge and team up with another amp. Go for the C372 . Iain. |
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New member Username: WolfsonPost Number: 2 Registered: Jan-05 | A well tuned and implementd sub can due wonders. You dont have to be a disco freak or bass freak to need a sub. I use a Dayton DIY sub in conjunction with a parametric EQ and get great results. Very tight clean bass with no boom. Wolf |
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Bronze Member Username: Ca_convertCardiffUK Post Number: 31 Registered: Jan-05 | I guess this is one British vs American sound thing. I have never heard a decent sub that didnt completely trash the music, ok the walls shook and its a great wow factor at parties, but did nothing for me musically. In the UK, subs are mostly used in home cinema systems (where wow is arguably more important than quality). |
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Unregistered guest | Hey, read your initial opinions on the NAD 372. I just bought one to replace my Harman Kardon 650 amp, as i went with a new pair of Cerwin Vega CLSC-15. I just have to say that allthough the 372 is recomended in symbiosis with a 272, I do not subscribe to your point of view regarding the bass effort. I feel that it delivres an even power throughout the full spectre, and also delivres the punch you would expect from a partypackage. |
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schnellfarer Unregistered guest | Hey, read your initial opinions on the NAD 372. I just bought one to replace my Harman Kardon 650 amp, as i went with a new pair of Cerwin Vega CLSC-15. I just have to say that allthough the 372 is recomended in symbiosis with a 272, I do not subscribe to your point of view regarding the bass effort. I feel that it delivres an even power throughout the full spectre, and also delivres the punch you would expect from a partypackage. |
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New member Username: AudiobeforePost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-05 | Sun King, you seem to have a lot of expertise with what's out there now and maybe some older stuff too... What do you think of the old Tandberg Studio Monitors? The ones with a 12" woofer, dome mid and two dome tweets? I have read that they open up with more powerful amps... I have an NAD 3150. Should I buy maybe a C272 and use the preamp of the 3150... or should I upgrade both? |
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Bronze Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 38 Registered: Jun-05 | Hey,Bryon C272 is a wort while edition to your sytem i have 3200bbee in my second system and thinkin about getting and bi amping yeah its worth it what kind of speakers do you have? |
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Silver Member Username: Sun_kingLeeds, West Yorkshire UK Post Number: 258 Registered: Mar-04 | The Tandbergs are a nice bit of kit and should open up considerably with more power. I don't think there is much to be gained by keeping the 3150 preamp in the circuit so why don't you just go straight for the C372 integrated? It isn't much different in price to the C272 power amp. If you want to go the pre & power route, which is maybe better for upgrading in the future, why not hunt down a used C160 pre and C270 power amp? I'm using the same currently and recommend it 100% - warm, detailed and airy midrange coupled with a good top end and awesome bass. That set up will drive your Tandbergs excellently. Plenty crop-up on Ebay. The C160 preamp is exactly the same as the new C162 unit, cosmetics aside. The C270 power amp, in my opinion, is better than the C272 that replaced it. |
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New member Username: AudiobeforePost Number: 2 Registered: Jun-05 | Thanks Sun King! What CD Player would you recommend with my set-up of a C372 and the Tandbergs? Plus... how much do you know about those Tandbergs? I really want to find someone that's familiar with them! |
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New member Username: AudiobeforePost Number: 3 Registered: Jun-05 | Sun King... also, and this may sound crazy, but what subwoofer, if any, would you pair with my Tandbergs? |
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Silver Member Username: Sun_kingLeeds, West Yorkshire UK Post Number: 259 Registered: Mar-04 | Depends on your budget for the cd player. You could keep things NAD and go for the C542 which is probably the best "budget" player around. It's a very detailed cdp which packs a punch too. Other than that, there is the cheaper NAD C521BEE player which is also pretty good to be fair. Don't ignore the usual suspects though, Rotel and Cambridge Audio do decent players. Marantz too but I've heard of reliability issues with their cd players. I've got the Nad C542 and can't recommend it enough - I've yet to hear one for similar money that sounds anywhere near as good. As for subwoofers, I'm really not your man. I know that B&W makes some of the best entry level and budget subs but other than that I don't know! |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 247 Registered: Apr-04 | I would go with HSU or SVS subs. I can't agree enough with the C542. Comapred this with some expensive gear and the only ones that my ears could tell beat it were YBA and NAIM but with a cost! |
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Unregistered guest | Hi wise people, I have a pair of speaker B&W DM602S3 and old CDP Marantz CD67MKiiSE. I am considering between NAD C320BEE and DENON PMA1500RII(I have not heard both of amps with B&W). Now this is the same price in my contry(Vietnam)but DENON is more popular in the market than NAD(easy to buy than NAD). I am a student just can effort to invest once to my system so I would like to hear all of your advices to help me to chose the right amp for my nice B&W. All advices would be appreciated! Thanks in advance Thainh@pm3power.com.vn |
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nout Unregistered guest | These amps have a pretty similair sound balance, a bit dark, strong upper bass (bit loudness-like) and smooth highs. The Denon has the tendency to sound a bit bigger than life, in my small room, for instance, vocals will sound bigger than my own voice will ever sound, Gillian Welch's voice (played on this amp) could only come from a giant or a woman with an abnormal big mouth and chest. The NAD is more natural and will reproduce vocals in more realistic proportions. That big sound Denon produces can be very pleasing, escaping reality and be totally locked behind a huge soundwall. Both amps aren't known for their great dynamics, in fact both are a bit bland. (not Denon PMA 1500R's successor: the PMA1500MKII, which appears to have very good dynamics - according to audio magazines, I haven't heard this amp) Listen for yourself, ofcourse |
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Unregistered guest | Thanks alot my friend for your advise! your valuable comment will help me to chose the right one |
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Bronze Member Username: EllisonPost Number: 29 Registered: Mar-05 | I suggest NAD352. 370 failed in the What hifi test. 2 stars only. The NAD352 sounds musical and dynamic. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 468 Registered: May-05 | What Hi-Fi giving it 2 stars is meaningless. The listeners ears are what counts. I think the 372 deserved at least 4 stars. They have also given other products multiple scores - NAD C320BEE got 5 stars on one occasion, and 4 on another, as did the Arcam A65+. If I were to look for more of this, I'm sure I could find it. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 469 Registered: May-05 | Another thing to keep in mind. The C272 was praised by What Hi-Fi, and the C372 was bashed. The power amp in the C372 is the C272. The only difference is that the C372 has a pre-amp built in. How could one be so good, and another be so horrible? The NAD pre/power seperates combo (C162/C272) is better than the C372, but not a night and day difference. How can one combo be so great, and the other be so bad when the differences are subtle? Like someone else here said - I guess they cut some advertising money right before the C372 was reviewed. |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 480 Registered: Apr-04 | I agree Stu.......Like I said in another post, I think NAD may have pulled their advertisements that month! They go and give the 352 5 stars and the 372 is basically a hot rodded 352 with the same pre-amp! Hypocritical analysis! I had the 372 before owning 2 C272's and a 162 (bridged) and the sound is not that different! What a bunch! Advice to all.........NEVER NEVER buy based on a simple review. The 372 has about 20 excellent reviews elswhere to 1 with What hi-fi? |
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Rohit Unregistered guest | Try using Definitive Technology speakers (BP7002) with the NAD 372. The in-built active subs compensate for the low bass of the 372. |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 513 Registered: Apr-04 | What is this low bass thing???????????? I have owned one and now with 2 C272's and a C162 pre and did not notice anymore bass!!!!!! This is the only place where this has ever been mentioned! I compared this amp with the Musical Fidelity X series and Creek and did not notice this at all! |
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New member Username: AudiobeforePost Number: 4 Registered: Jun-05 | Danman... tell me a little more about your situation. Perhaps I can help you shed some light on it. |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 515 Registered: Apr-04 | What situation? |
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New member Username: SummitPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 | Great info guys. I hope i can solicit some advice from any of you. My budget is very limited, but after scrimping all my savings for some needed and overdue upgrade, i decided to buy NAD c352 to drive a pair of b&w 602 s3 or 603 s3 or jbl northridge e80 or paradigm monitor 7 that im planning to buy, too. The loudspeakers are to replace my sony fronts (shame on me) and for duty role of 40% music (jazz, rock, mellow, pop) and 60% home theater. For HT i will drive them with my existing Yamaha RXV9 something, but for stereo music, i'm planning to drive them with NAD. My questions is this, is it possible to wire my fronts so that i can drive them with both Yamaha and NAD? Of course, i will not use both at the same time. Second, I went with NAD c352 (since its the only NAD model at my place and some of my friends use NAD and i love their sound) hoping that someday, sigh, I can buy another c352 and bi-amp my fronts by using the second pre-out of the first c352 to connect to the power amp of the second c352, is this correct bi-amping? By the way, I also checked Harman Kardon hk3480, i also liked it especially the fact that have 2 speaker terminals and more power and cool blue lights :> but it only have 1 pre-out so i figured i may not be able to bi-amp two hk3480 later on, am I right? Or can I also bi-amp using two hk3480? I have already read in this forums the NAD bi-amp thing with two c352 but everyone suggested different models of NAD. I'm hoping to use only these models since they are cheaper and available, i don't think i need better NAD models right now or later. Im also planning to attach my sub to the second pre-out of the first c352 while attached to my Yamaha. Then when i finally buys the second c352 then i will transfer the sub to the preout of this second c352. Is it correct? And last, is it possible to get the unimproved c352, since i understand from this forum that the original c352 have some improvements made but its still named c352 and c352ct for titanium finish? I'm hoping to get the improved version of course so im hoping any of you guys can point me what to look for so that i may know that the unit i'm buying is of the improved version, something like, serial numbers or date of manufacture maybe? Thanks for taking time to read this very very long post. And thanks too for all your generous answers. |
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New member Username: SummitPost Number: 3 Registered: Mar-06 | Just want to tell everyone that i started a new thread instead so as not to polute this thread with my own problem. Sorry Manish Pal. So please, please, please, post your two bits in my thread. Thanks, much appreciated |
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Bronze Member Username: PalPuneIndia Post Number: 90 Registered: Apr-04 | No problems Roderick, if u look at when i had started this post, its April 25, 2004, almost 2 yrs ago !!!! Now soon it would be 2 yrs, since i have the system i was trying to put together at that time Manish |
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New member Username: Paul_curriePost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 | I have a NAD c317 which has aquired a left channel hum , which so far can't be fixed by our local repairer so rather than spend good after bad my retailer suggested a c372 . Is this a great amp or am I in for a let down . Is there anything out there I should consider . I have a NAD c540 cd player , B&W 602 s2 and a B&W amp . Thanks PC |
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New member Username: Bluemark81NB Canada Post Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | I recently had an opportunity to try the NAD 372 because I was looking at replacing my 13 year old Carver HR-752 receiver. I am driving B&W matrix 804 speakers and NAD's C542 CD player. I managed a way to hook things up through a switch so I could play the same source and simply switch back and forth between amplifiers. A really convenient method of comparison. This was only after I allowed the NAD to burn in for a couple of days. the difference between the two amps was mind boggling. The Carver had such an incredible amount of detail over the NAD as well as an extension into the lower end that the NAD couldn't even touch. The vocals from the Carver were very detailed and clear. I described the sound of the NAD to the salemen (who happens to be the same gentleman I purchased the Carver from years ago), as though it seemed to be playing the speakers from inside a cardboard box. When played alone, prior to hooking up the switch, I actually grew to like the sound of the NAD, but once compared with my old Carver, this appeal quickly diminished. I have owned NAD products in the past and genrally liked them. It is definitely a "warmer" sound, however, it depends on what you are looking for in a sound. It is hard to discount all the positive reviews that the NAD gets, but as my situation proved, you gotta go with whay your ear enjoys. I am now going to attempt to try some Rotel. |
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New member Username: DiehardmonteDelhi India Post Number: 1 Registered: May-06 | Hello Sun King & Manish...I have been doing my own research from the past 6 months on a perfect audiophile stereo setup. I m planning to go either for a B&W DM604S3 or 603S3. Why i am confused on the two is because of the incremental cost that i'll have to bear on the amp if i choose a 604S3. What i've learnt from other reviews/forums is that 604s are power hungary and really need high power amps. Now the distributor is suggesting a NAD372. I have auditioned a 320BEE. The soundstaging was ok but the build quality was not at all impressive. Other amps that i have come across is a Marantz PM7200 auditioned on a Boston Acoustics V2,3 ref series, Klipsch Ref series, Morduant Short and Definitve Tech floorstanders. Its a perfect audiophile, quality built and drives all power hungry speakers too and there is no jarring even at 3'o clock position, but the soundstaging is only good for vocals.Denon PMA1500RII, 1500AE and 1055AE on KEF ref series, Polk Audio Monitor/Rti series, Wharfedale and Jamo floorstanders. They all are solid, good quality built powerful amps. But they produce a lot of jarring at upwards of 11o clock position. Soundstaging is perfect but only at low volumes. In short they are not audiophiles and can easily blow the best speakers. Next is a Harman/Kardan HK675 on JBLE90 and Infinity ref series floorstanders. As they claim the amp is really powerful and has lot of current driving capability. No jarring till 2 o clock. Among others are Musical fidelity, good but expensive for my budget, Creek is sophisticated but again expensive, Cambridge Audio 640V2 - value for money but not powerful and its protection circuit keeps coming in at 12oclock position.Very dissapointing. Rotel is a good option it seems but i have never auditioned them. The problem is Amercian brands like NAD and HK are powerful, good built but i dont know if they are good for all kinds of music (british or indian) as american brands are known kickass type and good only for rock music.In short they miss good mid freq bands and are bight and harsh. I dont know if it holds true for NAD & HK. British brands are good though but they lack power and those with power are expensive. Japanese are solid, powerful and excellant in quality but lacks audiophile grades and sometimes soundstaging. After analyzing i have zeroed on few amps. Please suggest out the following - which one would u reccomend for a DM604S3 keeping in mind that they are 200wpc at 8 ohms... HK 970 - 80wpc NADC 372 - 150wpc - lil expensive too Marantz PM7200 - 95wpc/25wpc class A - will be forced to buy this. Rotel RA 06 or 03 - 70wpc - i dont know coz i never auditioned them. What i want is no jarring and perfect soundstaging even at 3-4 o clock position without clipping and damaging the speakers. Also the speakers should not sound too bright and tiring to ears. Also these are the only options available in India. Sandeep |
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