I purchase a pair of Focal Chorus 807v speakers. Currently using
Adcom 5802 (300 WPC) Amp Adcom GFP-750 Pre Denon Dcm-390 Cd Player.
If I were to upgrade my Cd player, can anyone suggest a moderately priced player that would be an improvement in sound over my current Denon?question is will this be a good match for wether or not this s iseylI re e
What's "moderately priced" mean to you. $200 or $2k? You have a couple of thousand dollars worth of gear to go with your new CD player. How much money do you think should be allocated to the source? Any idea why you should spend more or less than that amount?
What would be an improvement? Players have different sonic signatures. You have to tell us what you would like to improve compared to the sound you're now hearing and, hopefully, compared to live music. If you're just looking for "better" without a reference other than, "OK, that sounds better to me", I have no idea how to get you from here to there because I don't know where "there" is. What's missing from your system sound right now that you hear when you listen to live music? You do go out to hear live music; right?
If you can't identify what it is you should improve, then you're kinda shooting craps when it comes to buying a new player. NAD makes good players as do Cambridge, Oppo and a host of others under $700. Above that the competition gets more inclined to improvements that are less discernable by a casual listener and more so by someone who is focussing on particular aspects of performance - both of the player and the players.
Bottom line, you need to know what you want before we can begin to tell you how to go about finding it. Needless to say, that shouldn't stop anyone from suggesting better players than you already have and you can go listen for yourself.
In addition to what Jan Vigne said, you have a very good system. It is capable of holding its own with some very expensive CD players. Don't sell it short by throwing a cheap CD player in there. They're not all the same.
I have no idea what moderately priced means to you, and therefore can't make any recommendations. I also don't know what you're listening for.
I like the Rotel and Arcam players in that price range. Both would work well in your system and likely match your listening preferences. Try to audition them both...the Arcam may be a better match with your system but the proof is in the listenin'. Rotel RCD1072 and Arcam CD73..go forth and listen!
Are the Rotel and Arcam that cheap in the US of A? Crap, both are a grand here. At my place I have had the Arcam CD73, NAD 525bee, and the Rega Apollo. Of course the Rega won my heart. The Arcam was nice, but was not a clear winner at all over the NAD for double the price. Both sounded similar to my ears. So, I would also check out the NAD cdp's, for the price. But all of the cd players that everyone has recommended would be a for sure upgrade from the Denon IMO.
The Arcam and NAD's do have a similar sound with the Arcam having just a bit more resolution and even more importantly they don't kill the music like NAD's. By that I don't mean that NAD's do any real harm, they don't in fact they sound rather pleasant however you can see just a touch deeper into the music with the Arcam and that's just the difference between being interested and nodding off. And yep they are that cheap here.
Thanks for all of the suggestions. I will look at the Arcam and NAD. Does this mean that there are no 5 disc changer that can rival these single disc players?
Art- I completely agree. I think I had posted somewhere before that I felt the Arcam was a slightly improved sound of the NAD. Bottom end was more controlled, and top end had just a tiny bit more detail. Very close though. Ed.W- What about saving your pennies for a bit longer and going up to 1000 dollars to the Rega Apollo?
Looks like Rotel are in the middle of releasing some new products, but I havnt seen a new cdp yet. Local store in my town, Just Hi-Fi say they sell an insane amount of the Rotel 1072 cd players. It is very popular.
The Rega Apollo is a fantastic CD player, and may fit very well into your system.
Regarding CD changers, the higher end companies have pretty much abandoned them. Rotel still makes one. It has a lot of the same components as the single disc player. I believe it is the same price, which leads me to believe some corners have been cut from the single disc player in order to meet a price point. The best way is to listen to them both side by side to determine what if any differences there are.
A few higher end CD players will play mp3. The Rega Apollo and Saturn are two that will. The playback of mp3 isn't for sound quality; it sounds horrible compared to standard CD. But it can be very convenient for burning a disc or two to play as background music during parties where you don't want to constantly switch discs. In this aspect it may be better than a changer which will only hold 5 CDs. An mp3 CD can hold enough music for an entire evening.
Ed with Focal 807Vs on the end, the minimum quality you should be looking at (in my opinion) is the Rega Apollo. This will give you better bass definition, far more resolution (weird how it can do that) and pull the strands of the music together. The Apollo is one of several good machines at the price point from what I hear, but that's really the right place to be as a minimum sinec garbage in still equals garbage out.
I agree Frank. The Adcom system he has isn't your typical Adcom. It was designed by Nelson Pass. I know we had a discussion in a different thread about this, but the fact remains that Nelson Pass doesn't design junk.
Factor in the Focals which are a fantasic speaker, and Ed shouldn't go with anything less than an Apollo if he wants to get anywhere near the full potential out of his system.
It took me two months to decide on the Focal 807Vs coming from Klipsch floorstanders. I will do some more research and probably end up with a Cd player slightly above the Rega/Rotel that are now my top two choices.
They're much better machines. To me, the benchmark for high fidelity is now the Apollo. That's where things start to get truly interesting! Don't get me wrong - the NAD C525BEE and C542 are great budget CD players but they're not what I consider High Fidelity. The Apollo gives glimpses of greatness, a true feel for the high end without the high price tag.
But it's still a £600 machine. Yes, it's giant killing value for money, but in absolute fidelity terms, it remains more limited than the other models I mentioned. The Focal 800 series is actually a very discerning and high quality back end. According to Stu, the Adcoms should be a pretty open window. Therefore in terms of matching the back end Focals, I'd go heavier on the front end if it were possible. Hence, 'were it up to me', I'd recommend the heavier duty front ends.
The other reason I originally suggested the Apollo was that you asked for somethign moderately priced. Well, in that case, the Apollo is the one - again because of the value for money element. Nobody in their right mind can call one of the ones I'd prefer you to look at 'moderately priced'. Even the Apollo isn't what most of my friends would call moderately priced, so I thought I was pushing already at that level.
They're better machines. To me, the benchmark for high fidelity is now the Apollo. That's where things start to get truly interesting! Don't get me wrong - the NAD C525BEE and C542 are great budget CD players but they're not what I consider High Fidelity. The Apollo gives glimpses of greatness, a true feel for the high end without the high price tag.
But it's still a £600 machine. Yes, it's giant killing value for money, but in absolute fidelity terms, it remains more limited than the other models I mentioned. The Focal 800 series is actually a very discerning and high quality back end. According to Stu, the Adcoms should be a pretty open window. Therefore in terms of matching the back end Focals, I'd go heavier on the front end if it were possible. Hence, 'were it up to me', I'd recommend the heavier duty front ends.
The other reason I originally suggested the Apollo was that you asked for somethign moderately priced. Well, in that case, the Apollo is the one - again because of the value for money element. Nobody in their right mind can call one of the ones I'd prefer you to look at 'moderately priced'. Even the Apollo isn't what most of my friends would call moderately priced, so I thought I was pushing already at that level.
Frank, thanks for the insight and yes it all makes sense. After my intial research, I will trying to auditoion Rega/Naim/Quad players.
I asked for suggestions in the moderately priced range for an rough estimate, again assuming I may have to increase my budget to acquire a true audiophile CD player for my system. Now of course my first option will be used at Audiogon or dealer demo in an attempt to keep the cost in check.
I've found one alternative that is actually a little cheaper, and when mated to a reasonable transport sounded better in my system (to my ears) than the Apollo.
Ed, CI Audio makes an excellent DAC (VDA-2) at $600. You can upgrade it a tad for another $159 and get the separate power supply. If you pulg this into your Denon I think you will notice a huge step up in sound quality. It will not be subtle. Build quality and customer support are also top notch from CI.
Just another option for you to consider if you're trying to stay on budget. I upgraded from the NAD 541i (very similar to the 542) and it absolutely blew the NAD away. Not close.
EW, IMO musically it should be source first. I would not be expecting a small step up to make a huge difference, the Rega Apollo is my usual rec for a solid source for almost any system.
Its hard to say which way is the best way to go, because I haven't heard your system in your room with your music. That being said...
I wouldn't trade up to the Focal 816V. A good and well placed sub should sound far better.
The Apollo will sound a lot better than the Denon. It'll make the system a lot more musical. Keep in mind the system can only be as good as the source will let it be. Garbage in = garbage out. No other way to put it.
In most circumstances, the Apollo will make the biggest difference IMO. If you're listening to pipe organ music or electronica type music, then a subwoofer could make all the difference. But then again, that subwoofer will only be as clean and tight as the source will let it be.
I'm still listening to CDP's as everyone suggested. My top two choices are now the Rega Apollo and Cambridge Audio 840C for my budget. In the next few days, I'll head back to Community Audio here in Phila and do some more A/B.
One step closer. Absolutely fell in love with the Naim CD5i and Nait 5i combo tonight. Looks like I will be ordering a Naim CD5i next week, albeit after one more listen.
Now must decide if I will sell my Adcom equip and replace them with a Nait 5i. Would this be considered a step up or sideways?
I had the Apollo and now have the Naim CD5i, both great cdp's. I felt the Naim was just more engaging. So did my wife. But here it's a grand more than the Apollo so there should be something more for the money. Thank goodness for Ebay!
The CD5i has just been upgraded to the CD5i (italic) to great effect. I agree that the difference in performance between the Apollo and CD5i was relatively close but the CD5i brings new and marked improvements to the Naim's performance in my view which put the price peggings into a sensible perspective, especially since the Apollo has also increased in price.
The CD5i remains a good machine and should be available at a reduced rate of course sinec it is being replaced with a newer model (the CD5i).
Well after reading Thorsten's post about his new Naim combo, I'm literally sitting at my desk drooling. I can not wait until I leave this office to head over to my dealer and pick up my new equipment.
To all who have helped, again I say Thanks.
Frank, happy I found your older posts about Naim NACA5 speaker cable, since I was ready to shell out some serious dough on some Analysis Plus Oval 9 cable. It only makes since to use the NACA5 as you pointed out and it will still be cheaper than some of the other cable brands I was looking to purchase.
Your expertise with Naim has been invaulable to me.
Well, well, well. I don't have a trained ear like most, but just like Thorsten, I'm enjoying my new Naim equipment. First day out of the box and I'm noticing clarity and imaging is much improved over my Denon. Now I don't mind closing my eyes and getting lost in my sounds.
Still using basic Esoteric speaker cable until my NACA5 arrives on Wednesday. Mainly tyring some Jazz instrumentals like Maceo Parker, Charlie Bird and some Sony Rollins for now and I must say I'm indeed a happy camper.
I will check back in when I try some vovals, R&B and some other stuff I enjoy. Thanks again gentlemen, all of your advice was much appreciated.
Hey Ed - that's you, me and Thorsten all taking delivery of the sweet Naim CD5i/Nait5i v2 combo within a few days of each other!
As you say, I think we all owe the good folks on this great Forum a debt of gratitude for nudging us in this very excellent direction.
I must confess my upgrade search hasn't entailed a lot of listening - finding a dealer with all the models one would like to compare is nigh impossible - so I have taken a gamble to a certain extent with the Naims and bought them unheard. I will admit to placing a lot of faith in the feedback and advice I received here. I needn't have worried - there's a reason Frank and the guys here speak so highly of Naim, and that's apparent the minute you take their gear out of the box. I've really appreciated the articulate, accurate and dispassionate (well, mostly!) advice I've been given here that has led me to this purchase; if I can put back into the Forum half of what I've taken away I'll be happy!
Of course, the fact that I located a thoroughly professional and competent Naim dealer near me has also played a large part in my decision. So often you go into a store and feel like you're being 'talked down to' and told what to do rather than listened to and politely advised - I'm afraid this alone was enough to put me off visiting the Rega and Cyrus dealers again after my initial visit.
We all need to reconvene in a month when our new Naim systems have been properly run-in and we've chosen complementary cables...
I know for some here this little Naim 5 combo is still 'entry-level' kit, but for me it represents a quantum leap in build and sound quality and the culmination of 25 years of lusting after such a fine music system!
I truly can echo your sentiments about some dealers and their bais toward certain name brands. John & Bob at Community Audio here in Phila are the kind of highly respected guys you speak of. True professionals.
I went in to demo the Rega Apollo and CA 840C. It also helped that they carry Naim as well. Without giving me his impressions, we listened and then he asked what I thought. Not once did he tell me which he thought was "the better CDP", we simply changed CD's and listened. I was leaning toward the CA 840C, but at lower volumes the Apollo clearly outshined it. John then urged me to listen to Naim "since I was already here" as he put it.
Within minutes my budget was blown and I knew I would be ordering the new setup although I thought it was the original 5i. Once John told me it was the new italic and the price didn't increase as the Apollo has, it was a no brainer for me.
As far as cables, I have also ordered the NACA5 which they both feel are the only way to go with Naim gear.
See you guys in about a month and as Frank has suggested I will be leaving me gear on.
